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Teacup
Nov 25th 2007, 01:21 AM
I read how Abraham was considered extremely faithful and obedient. I have even read how God considered Abraham to be his friend. But, wasn't he disobedient when he became the father to Ishmael? I do not see how fathering a child before the promised one without Sarah is considered obedient or faithful. I know that I must be missing something to this story. Can somebody help me?

jeffreys
Nov 25th 2007, 01:27 AM
I read how Abraham was considered extremely faithful and obedient. I have even read how God considered Abraham to be his friend. But, wasn't he disobedient when he became the father to Ishmael? I do not see how fathering a child before the promised one without Sarah is considered obedient or faithful. I know that I must be missing something to this story. Can somebody help me?

I wonder if what you're missing is the big picture. Abraham was considered faithful, not perfect. I think it might be a little like King David - a man after God's own heart. I find some of David's sexual dalliances inexcusable, but I guess God sees otherwise.

Jesusinmyheart
Nov 25th 2007, 01:48 AM
Yes Abraham was obedient, and as pointed out very human (when he slept with Hagar), what matters is repentance, when one realizes an error of their ways, and change, by turning to God in obedience.

Shalom,
Tanja

jeffreys
Nov 25th 2007, 01:55 AM
Yes Abraham was obedient, and as pointed very human, what matters is repentance, when one realizes an error of their ways, and change, by turning to God in obednience.

Shalom,
Tanja

Great thoughts. Thank you!

One of the most comforting things about the Bible, to me, is that God consistently used colossal screw-ups like Abraham, David and even Peter, to bring about His glory. If those "losers" can be used mightily of God, us "losers" can be too!

My heart's Desire
Nov 25th 2007, 06:21 AM
. I think it might be a little like King David - a man after God's own heart.
I think that what you say is great in that I'd like to point this out. Sin is sin but I think the thing is that God knew David's heart and Abraham's too.

Doer
Nov 25th 2007, 06:41 AM
We can learn something from them. Go after God's heart :bounce::idea::B

Joe King
Nov 25th 2007, 06:25 PM
I pray that I could be considered God's friend. That would be the best blessing anyone could ever have.

tgallison
Nov 25th 2007, 09:11 PM
I read how Abraham was considered extremely faithful and obedient. I have even read how God considered Abraham to be his friend. But, wasn't he disobedient when he became the father to Ishmael? I do not see how fathering a child before the promised one without Sarah is considered obedient or faithful. I know that I must be missing something to this story. Can somebody help me?

Teacup greetings

Abraham had extreme faith. Would you offer up your son to die because God requested it. I don't know how I would hold up under that.

Abraham's sin was similar to Adam's. He was listening to his wife when he knew it was wrong.

We are all carnal in the flesh. We are constantly at war with it. The flesh will pay the penalty, for it shall surely die.

When God saves us, He doesn't say we will never sin. That is not possible, as we are still in the flesh. God judges our heart, and if it is toward him, we will be found faithful in Christ.

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God:"

Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one:"

John 8:7 "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin amoung you, let him first cast a stone at her.

When we are saved it is the heart that is changed, the flesh still appears as before.

In Jesus Christ, terrell

cross crusader
Nov 25th 2007, 09:14 PM
I pray that I could be considered God's friend. That would be the best blessing anyone could ever have.

we have the greatest blessing, actually we have every spiritual blessing Eph. 1, we are the sons of God, and Friends of Jesus.

JollyRoger1970
Jul 10th 2009, 10:12 PM
I wonder if what you're missing is the big picture. Abraham was considered faithful, not perfect. I think it might be a little like King David - a man after God's own heart. I find some of David's sexual dalliances inexcusable, but I guess God sees otherwise.


God also viewed David's sexual dalliances inexcusable but forgave David when he truly repented from his sins as he wrote Psalm 51. David was a man after God's own heart not because he was prefect but because he realized how sinful he was and how much he needed to rely on God.

crossnote
Jul 11th 2009, 01:33 AM
Abraham was praised because of his faith, not because of his faults. We as Christians are justified (accounted righteous) in the same way.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:5)