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View Full Version : Gabriel-Angel of redemption.................ANGEL OF THE LORD.



jeffweeder
Nov 26th 2007, 05:48 AM
Gabriel, or at least his name, is only mentioned 4 times. He is the Angel that stands in Gods very presense, and his mission is all about redemption.



DAN 8
When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it; and behold, standing before me was one who looked like a man.
16 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 8:16')) And I heard the voice of a man between the banks of Ulai, and he called out and said, "Gabriel, give this man an understanding of the vision."
17 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 8:17')) So he came near to where I was standing, and when he came I was frightened and fell on my face; but he said to me, "Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end."
18 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 8:18')) Now while he was talking with me, I sank into a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me and made me stand upright.
19 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 8:19')) He said, "Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of the end.






DAN 9
Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,
21 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 9:21')) while I was still speaking in prayer, then the manGabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, - (chap-8 ) ,came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering.
22 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 9:22')) He gave me instruction and talked with me and said, "O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you insight with understanding.
23 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 9:23')) "At the beginning of your supplications the command was issued, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed; so give heed to the message and gain understanding of the vision
24 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 9:24')) "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
25 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Da 9:25')) "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.





LK1

Zacharias said to the angel, "How will I know this for certain? For I am an old man and my wife is advanced in years."
19 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:19')) The angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.
20 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:20')) "And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their proper time."
( One should read Zacharias prophecy....LK 1 :67- )




LK 1

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth,
27 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:27')) to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:28')) And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
29 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:29')) But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was.
30 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:30')) The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:31')) "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
32 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:32')) "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
33 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:33')) and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
34 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:34')) Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
35 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:35')) The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
36 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:36')) "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
37 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:37')) "For nothing will be impossible with God."
38 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:38')) And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.





MATT 1
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
19 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Mt 1:19')) And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.
20 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Mt 1:20')) But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Mt 1:21')) "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
22 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Mt 1:22')) Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
23 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Mt 1:23')) "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
24 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Mt 1:24')) And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
25 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Mt 1:25')) but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.



Gabriel, can you think of any other Angel that has so much ministry to our redemption.
He was there to tell Daniel that redemption was on its way, in 70 weeks time .
When it was time for Messiah to be born, he is there again ensuring that all things came to pass.
He spoke with Mary, He was the Angel that Joseph dealt with and kept Messiah safe.
Zacharias had his lips sealed, only to open them again in joy that the 70 week promise came true.;



And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:68')) "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited us and accomplished redemption for His people,
69 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:69')) And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of David His servant—
70 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:70')) As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old—
71 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:71')) Salvation FROM OUR ENEMIES,
And FROM THE HAND OF ALL WHO HATE US;
72 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:72')) To show mercy toward our fathers,
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:73')) The oath which He swore to Abraham our father,
74 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:74')) To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:75')) In holiness and righteousness before Him all our days.
76 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:76')) "And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High;
For you will go on BEFORE THE LORD TO PREPARE HIS WAYS;
77 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:77')) To give to His people the knowledge of salvation
By[44][Or Consisting in ] the forgiveness of their sins,
78 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:78')) Because of the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Sunrise from on high will visit us,
79 (http://javascript<b></b>:VClk('Lk 1:79')) TO SHINE UPON THOSE WHO SIT IN DARKNESS AND THE SHADOW OF DEATH,
To guide our feet into the way of peace."





"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place

Angels dont get many prayers, but i thank God for the Angel Gabriel tonight.

markedward
Nov 26th 2007, 06:03 AM
Wait, your title of the thread says Gabriel is "Angel of the LORD"... are you trying to say he is the Angel of the LORD that we see in the OT?

jeffweeder
Nov 26th 2007, 06:59 AM
Well Mark it says he is an Angel of the lord.
Is the Angel of the Lord that you refer to in the OT ever named?.
In matthews account this Angel is not refered to as Gabriel, but an Angel of the Lord.
He stands in God presense, much like i think that the Angel of the Lord would.

Tell me what you think is wrong with Gabriel being a Angel of the Lord.

markedward
Nov 26th 2007, 05:39 PM
Tell me what you think is wrong with Gabriel being a Angel of the Lord.I didn't say it was wrong with saying Gabriel as an Angel of the LORD, but there is much more Biblical evidence to show that Jesus is the Angel of the LORD that appears numerous times in the OT, and if Jesus is the Angel of the LORD, Gabriel can't be. He is obviously an angel, but he isn't the Angel of the LORD.

threebigrocks
Nov 26th 2007, 05:50 PM
Jesus is an angel? :confused Scripture please!

RogerW
Nov 26th 2007, 05:51 PM
Do you think Gabriel could represent an Epiphany?

Blessings,
RW

RogerW
Nov 26th 2007, 06:48 PM
Or, more to the point could Gabriel be a Christophany? Food for thought?

Blessings,
RW

markedward
Nov 26th 2007, 07:32 PM
Or, more to the point could Gabriel be a Christophany? Food for thought?

Blessings,
RWGabriel appeared to... Mary (or was it Joseph?) at one point while Mary was pregnant. It wouldn't make sense for Gabriel to be talking to Mary from outside of her body if Gabriel was a Christophany.


Jesus is an angel? :confused Scripture please!"Angel" comes from the Greek word "Angelus," which means "messenger." In turn, the Hebrew word "malak" also simply means "messenger." It is used just as often, if not more, in reference to humans than it is to the heavenly host.

By calling Jesus "Angel of the LORD" He is simply being called "Messenger of the LORD." It does not mean Jesus is a created being, only that He was presenting a message directly from God. Many times (if not every time) that the Angel of the LORD speaks, it says the LORD Himself is speaking. According to Jesus words, no one has seen God the Father, yet the OT says people have seen God, which would lead us to believe the Angel (or "Messenger") of the LORD was a pre-incarnate Jesus.

It was only over time that the word "angel" came to denote the idea of a heavenly being who serves God.

RogerW
Nov 26th 2007, 08:21 PM
Gabriel appeared to... Mary (or was it Joseph?) at one point while Mary was pregnant. It wouldn't make sense for Gabriel to be talking to Mary from outside of her body if Gabriel was a Christophany.

Why? Fully Divine, while fully human? I'm not being dogmatic here, simply putting forth questions regarding not only the angel Gabriel, but also the angel Michael. There have been good arguments presented that both Gabriel and Michael may represent Christ, or be a Christophany. I have not studied the topic well enough to decide for or against this argument.



"Angel" comes from the Greek word "Angelus," which means "messenger." In turn, the Hebrew word "malak" also simply means "messenger." It is used just as often, if not more, in reference to humans than it is to the heavenly host.

By calling Jesus "Angel of the LORD" He is simply being called "Messenger of the LORD." It does not mean Jesus is a created being, only that He was presenting a message directly from God. Many times (if not every time) that the Angel of the LORD speaks, it says the LORD Himself is speaking. According to Jesus words, no one has seen God the Father, yet the OT says people have seen God, which would lead us to believe the Angel (or "Messenger") of the LORD was a pre-incarnate Jesus.


Yes, even before He was clothed in human flesh, He is the Messenger of the LORD. How is it possible to have this angel/Messenger of the LORD as the pre-incarnate Jesus (a Christophany) before His earthly birth, and death, but not possible for Gabriel speaking to Mary also be a Christophany? "The" angel of the Lord...is this Christ announcing His own human birth?

Lu 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Lu 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Lu 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Lu 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Lu 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Lu 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Blessings,
RW

markedward
Nov 26th 2007, 09:10 PM
Why? Fully Divine, while fully human?When Jesus was conceived within Mary He was "made a little lower than the angels." Essentially, while He was a man Jesus "gave up" His "Godhood." He was still God, but He was without His Godly capacities. Which would include being in more than location at once (inside Mary's womb and outside of the womb talking to her). And surely if Gabriel was Christ he would have mentioned so to Mary. "Hey Mary. You're gonna be my mom!" (Thumbs up)


I'm not being dogmatic here, simply putting forth questions regarding not only the angel Gabriel, but also the angel Michael. There have been good arguments presented that both Gabriel and Michael may represent Christ, or be a Christophany. I have not studied the topic well enough to decide for or against this argument.If you notice all of the OT accounts of the Angel of the LORD, whenever the Angel speaks, it is identified as God Himself speaking, and whenever people encounter the Angel they usually refer how they saw God Himself. In each instance that this occurs we can safely conclude the Angel of the LORD is God Himself, Jesus.

As for the NT reference to the angel of the Lord in Luke's account, it depends on the translation you get. The King James Bible identifies him as "the angel of the Lord," but others, ranging from Young's Literal Translation to the NIV to the NAS each say it is an angel, not a particularly specific angel like the Angel of the LORD.

RogerW
Nov 27th 2007, 04:25 PM
When Jesus was conceived within Mary He was "made a little lower than the angels." Essentially, while He was a man Jesus "gave up" His "Godhood." He was still God, but He was without His Godly capacities. Which would include being in more than location at once (inside Mary's womb and outside of the womb talking to her). And surely if Gabriel was Christ he would have mentioned so to Mary. "Hey Mary. You're gonna be my mom!" (Thumbs up)

Jesus had not yet been conceived when Gabriel spoke to her. Gabriel tells her she will conceive, not that she was already with child. Mary questions him, and he says the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, not that the Holy Ghost had already come upon her.

Lu 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Lu 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Blessings,
RW

markedward
Nov 27th 2007, 07:08 PM
Ah, my mistake.

But I still wonder; if Gabriel was Jesus, why did he never say such a thing?

It just seems like you're using circumstantial evidence to come to a conclusion that is not necessarily there.

It's like how Mormons believe Michael became Adam who became Michael again. Or how JWs believe Michael became Jesus who became Michael again. It's has no real support other than coincidences that aren't even related to each other (well, the JWs version has some strong arguments, but the Bible does not explicitly or implicitly say that Jesus is/was ever Michael). I'll give an example of what you're doing:

I've never seen my girlfriend and my roommate's girlfriend in the same room at the same time. They must be the same person! They're the same height! They both speak English! They're both in college! Because of these few similarities and the fact I've never seen them together means they're the same individual, right?

It's circumstantial evidence that doesn't really prove anything.

RogerW
Nov 27th 2007, 07:33 PM
Ah, my mistake.

But I still wonder; if Gabriel was Jesus, why did he never say such a thing?

It just seems like you're using circumstantial evidence to come to a conclusion that is not necessarily there.

It's like how Mormons believe Michael became Adam who became Michael again. Or how JWs believe Michael became Jesus who became Michael again. It's has no real support other than coincidences that aren't even related to each other (well, the JWs version has some strong arguments, but the Bible does not explicitly or implicitly say that Jesus is/was ever Michael). I'll give an example of what you're doing:

I've never seen my girlfriend and my roommate's girlfriend in the same room at the same time. They must be the same person! They're the same height! They both speak English! They're both in college! Because of these few similarities and the fact I've never seen them together means they're the same individual, right?

It's circumstantial evidence that doesn't really prove anything.

Maybe I can help you better understand how I am responding to the OP by defining Christophany: Christophany is from the Greek words [christos] meaning anointed one, and [phaninomai], meaning manifestation or appearance. Thus a Christophany is the appearance of Jesus Christ (the anointed), the second person of the Trinity come to earth in another form (an angel, man, etc.). That is to say, Christ appears to man in a form which they can visibly see. For example, Christ's appearance to his disciples after His crucifixion and death, or His appearance in the furnace of fire with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

The OP makes an excellent observation, seeing Gabriel as the angel of redemption...The Angel of the LORD. With this observation I agree. So my question remains, is it likely that Gabriel represents a manifestation of Christ or a Christophany? I believe there is much biblical evidence to show that not only is Gabriel a Christophany, but Michael likewise could certainly be a manifestation or appearance of Jesus Christ in another form; i.e. a Christophany.

Many Blessings,
RW

mcgyver
Nov 27th 2007, 07:54 PM
I think that the confusion here is stemming from a mis-translated indefinite article in the KJV.

In the Textus Receptus (Elzevir 1624) which is what I have with me, the word used in Luke 2:9 is (transliterated) Aggelos (Angel). As there is no definite article found before the word, the indefinite article is assumed: That is to say that if the angel had been The Angel of The Lord (which I agree is an appearance of Jesus in the OT), the wording would have been "ho aggelos".

For example: "En arcane ane ho logos kai ho logos ane pros ton theon kai theos ane ho logos". (Lit. "in beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and God was the Word) John 1:1

As the definite article "ho" is missing in front of the word "aggelos", then the correct reading is "an angel" (of the Lord) and not "The angel" (of the Lord).

Just thought I'd throw that in (a little bit of Greek is a dangerous thing :rofl:)

Wintermute
Nov 27th 2007, 07:59 PM
There have been good arguments presented that both Gabriel and Michael may represent Christ, or be a Christophany. I have not studied the topic well enough to decide for or against this argument. I agree that Michael is a representation or title of Christ. But Gabriel announcing the coming of the Messiah to Mary tends to indicate to me the he is not. Further, Michael came to help out Gabriel in his struggle with the prince of Persia in the book of Daniel, indicating they are two separate beings.

The presence of Gabriel in Daniel and at the coming of the Messiah is a link from the prophecies of Daniel about the Messiah to the actual event. That is, Daniel 9 we have the vision of the Messiah. And in the gospels, Gabriel shows up to say that what was predicted in Daniel 9 is now comming to pass.

markedward
Nov 27th 2007, 08:07 PM
Maybe I can help you better understand how I am responding to the OP by defining Christophany: Christophany is from the Greek words [christos] meaning anointed one, and [phaninomai], meaning manifestation or appearance. Thus a Christophany is the appearance of Jesus Christ (the anointed), the second person of the Trinity come to earth in another form (an angel, man, etc.). That is to say, Christ appears to man in a form which they can visibly see. For example, Christ's appearance to his disciples after His crucifixion and death, or His appearance in the furnace of fire with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.... I know what a Christophany is. There's only one real definition for it. (Sidenote: the Bible doesn't explicitly state that it was Jesus who appeared in the furnace. It says there was a fourth man who appeared as "a son of God." Various beings of the heavenly host have been described with this bright appearance, and are at least once also called "sons of God." And given the large number of heavenly messengers that appear throughout Daniel, it's not immediately apparent that Jesus was the one in the furnace.)


The OP makes an excellent observation, seeing Gabriel as the angel of redemption...The Angel of the LORD. With this observation I agree. So my question remains, is it likely that Gabriel represents a manifestation of Christ or a Christophany? I believe there is much biblical evidence to show that not only is Gabriel a Christophany, but Michael likewise could certainly be a manifestation or appearance of Jesus Christ in another form; i.e. a Christophany.I believe there is circumstantial evidence that shows Gabriel and Michael could be Jesus. But the Bible never once implies it.

We can rightly call the Angel of the LORD, at least on a number of occasions, the pre-incarnate Jesus. Whenever the Angel speaks it says God spoke, and the people who meet the Angel often say they saw God's face, and Jesus stated that no one has seen God the Father. This openly implies that the Angel was the pre-incarnate Son of God appearing to man. But nothing openly implies that either Gabriel or Michael are the Angel of the LORD, the Son of God, or God Himself. Gabriel only appears as a messenger; the Bible never says that when he spoke that God was speaking, the Bible never quotes people as saying they saw God when they saw Gabriel, and Gabriel himself never hints to the idea that he is God or the Son of God. Michael's case has stronger arguments tha[n] Gabriel's, but again, it's circumstantial, and not once is it directly or indirectly implied that Michael is God or the Son of God.

If something is explicit (i.e., that Jesus is the Son of God/the Son of Man), then we can say it is Biblically supported. If something is implicit (i.e., that Jesus is the Angel of the LORD of the OT), then we can say it is Biblically supported. If something is neither explicit nor implicit (i.e., that the neither Gabriel nor Michael are even hinted at being the Son of God), we cannot say it is Biblically supported.

jeffweeder
Nov 27th 2007, 09:42 PM
Why is my thread in here?--Im a little bit offended.

Thanks for your responses folks.

Here is some bible chat scriptures on the Angel of the Lord

Gen 16:7
Gen 22:15
Ex 14:19
Num 22:23
Jdg 2:1
Jdg 13:3
Isa 63:9
Mat 28:2
Acts 8:26
Acts 27:23

Is 63


In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the Angel of His Presence saved them;
In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them
All the days of old.

lk 1

And the angel answered and said to him, "I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings.

markedward
Nov 27th 2007, 09:53 PM
Look, I can do it too:


You [Nebuchadnezzar], O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory;


which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

Nebuchadnezzar is God.

...

Or not.

jeffweeder
Nov 27th 2007, 10:07 PM
Hi Mark.
I hear what ya saying brother.

Reading those other scriptures supports what you say.
Not sure where i was going with the thread, just an observation that Gabriel is an Angel of redemption.
peace.

markedward
Nov 27th 2007, 10:11 PM
Hi Mark.
I hear what ya saying brother.

Reading those other scriptures supports what you say.
Not sure where i was going with the thread, just an observation that Gabriel is an Angel of redemption.
peace.Sorry if the thread was derailed. I have no problem with saying Gabriel is an angel who presents a particular message about the redemption of man. It just seemed like your title of the thread was saying Gabriel was the Angel of the LORD whom most people have concluded is the pre-incarnate Jesus. I suppose the thread went off topic from your OP in that people were trying to support the idea that Gabriel was indeed the Angel of the LORD/Jesus (which is why the thread moved off to World Religions).

Sorry if my previous post was a little sarcastic, but I was just trying to prove a point about "circumstantial evidence."