PDA

View Full Version : Head Coverings?



melbel816
Dec 15th 2007, 04:47 AM
I'm just wondering how many of you practice head covering, and if so, why. I was recently exposed to it for the first time, and after reading the Bible, have determined that women should be covering heads, but since very few people do so, I wonder why.

It has been explained to me that many believe it is an outdated practice, and this teaching was meant specifically for the Church at Corinth; however, women continued to cover heads for many years afterward.

Any insight is appreciated. :)


"3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." --1 Corinthians 11:3-10

Tanya~
Dec 15th 2007, 04:53 AM
Many churches don't allow women to pray and/or prophesy publicly in the services anyway, so there really isn't a need for head coverings. The head covering, when a woman prays or prophesies in the church, is a symbol of authority so that she can do so, before the angels.

Among those who wear the head coverings as a matter of course are just keeping to a custom that women should always be covered even if they aren't acting in any kind of official capacity in the assembly of the believers.

Braves27
Dec 15th 2007, 12:20 PM
It has been explained to me that many believe it is an outdated practice, and this teaching was meant specifically for the Church at Corinth; however, women continued to cover heads for many years afterward.

Any insight is appreciated. :)


"3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." --1 Corinthians 11:3-10

You're smart. You don't have to be told that that was a sad excuse for ignoring the word of GOD, something people seem to love doing. My only insight is, find a church where the women do keep their head covered.:)

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 04:33 PM
I'm just wondering how many of you practice head covering, and if so, why. I was recently exposed to it for the first time, and after reading the Bible, have determined that women should be covering heads, but since very few people do so, I wonder why.

It has been explained to me that many believe it is an outdated practice, and this teaching was meant specifically for the Church at Corinth; however, women continued to cover heads for many years afterward.

Any insight is appreciated. :)


"3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." --1 Corinthians 11:3-10

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one [B]as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (v.5&6)

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. (v 13-15)

Paul's talking about long hair being a woman's covering... iow don't wear short hair cuz if you do it's like having a shaved head. :) Imo tho, I'm not so sure about the hair length thing being necessary cuz I can't find a Command about women and hair length in the Torah so it may be a Pharisical law that Paul was carrying with him.

Braves27
Dec 15th 2007, 05:54 PM
You really think women were shaving their heads bald left and right??


IF it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

...so, if he's basically saying a woman having her head shaven is the SAME THING as being uncovered, how is her hair the covering that he's talking about?

Tanya~
Dec 15th 2007, 06:03 PM
I think it's interesting that this:

And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head

gets translated to this:

And every woman who goes to a church service with her head uncovered dishonors her head

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 06:09 PM
You really think women were shaving their heads bald left and right??


IF it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

...so, if he's basically saying a woman having her head shaven is the SAME THING as being uncovered, how is her hair the covering that he's talking about?
Where did I say women were shaving their heads left and right? :confused Verse 15 makes clear what Paul was saying...

But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Ta-An
Dec 15th 2007, 06:15 PM
I agree, if you do the one verse, you have to be faithful in doing them all....
YET!!!!
If the reason is not to be law abiding , and you want to cover your head in prayer, or use a prayer shawl... do so, it creates a tabernacle for the L_rd's presence with you.... be blessed if you decide to do so :hug:

Braves27
Dec 15th 2007, 08:14 PM
I think it's interesting that this:

And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head

gets translated to this:

And every woman who goes to a church service with her head uncovered dishonors her head




When's the last time you went to church and didn't pray?




Diff, reread what I said, I already addressed that.

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 08:20 PM
Diff, reread what I said, I already addressed that.
Sorry, I'm not understanding what you're saying... could you explain a little better? :confused

Thanx

Brother Mark
Dec 15th 2007, 08:52 PM
I agree with Tanya that the covering is about authority. Also, when we keep in mind that a woman's hair is her glory, it adds richness to the story of when the woman washed Jesus feet with her hair.

Brother Mark
Dec 15th 2007, 08:54 PM
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (v.5&6)

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. (v 13-15)

Paul's talking about long hair being a woman's covering... iow don't wear short hair cuz if you do it's like having a shaved head. :) Imo tho, I'm not so sure about the hair length thing being necessary cuz I can't find a Command about women and hair length in the Torah so it may be a Pharisical law that Paul was carrying with him.

Aren't Paul's writings as inspired as the Torah? ;)

Tanya~
Dec 15th 2007, 09:19 PM
When's the last time you went to church and didn't pray?

I've never led prayer in church. I have listened in silence and agreed in prayer, and I have prayed silently, but IMO this isn't talking about that. It is talking about when women are speaking in the public assembly -- praying or prophesying.

I pray all the time, throughout the day. For me would be a hindrance to have to stop and get a scarf on my head before I could pray.

Braves27
Dec 15th 2007, 09:23 PM
Sorry, I'm not understanding what you're saying... could you explain a little better? :confused

Thanx

Of course.

In that line I repeated, there is a clear differentiation between hair and the covering. By saying IF, the two things (a woman being shaved, a woman being uncovered) are equated (comparatively), but made clearly to not be the same thing.

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 09:31 PM
Of course.

In that line I repeated, there is a clear differentiation between hair and the covering. By saying IF, the two things (a woman being shaved, a woman being uncovered) are equated (comparatively), but made clearly to not be the same thing.
How do you interpret verses 13-15?

Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. (v 13-15)

Brother Mark
Dec 15th 2007, 09:31 PM
Let us not forget how Paul put this scripture out there...

1 Cor 11:1-2

11 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

Head Coverings

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.
NKJV


Keep the traditions was the command here.

Then he goes into how the hair is a covering and a glory. Then he speaks of how using a covering for the ladies that are shorn. All of this is to signify she is under authority. It seems to me that nature teaches us that women have long hair and men have short hair. But the tradition is that women keep their head covered if their hair is short.

Then he ends the discourse again speaking of custom/tradition.

1 Cor 11:16
16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.
NKJV


From what I can gather, Paul is saying this...

Keep the tradition of a woman wearing a hat. It is a good tradition because a woman should be covered as a sign of being under authority. But if she has long hair, her hair serves as a covering. Now, if you don't want to keep this tradition, then the church really doesn't have this custom.

The point? Long hair for a woman is good, honorable, scriptural and natural. Wearing a covering besides hair is good, honorable, and traditional for some but not required nor scriptural nor anti-scriptural.

Braves27
Dec 15th 2007, 09:37 PM
I've never led prayer in church. I have listened in silence and agreed in prayer, and I have prayed silently, but IMO this isn't talking about that. It is talking about when women are speaking in the public assembly -- praying or prophesying.

I pray all the time, throughout the day. For me would be a hindrance to have to stop and get a scarf on my head before I could pray.

IMO? It's not about your opinion, it's about God's opinion. I didn't see anything in the Scripture about leading prayer or speaking out in front of the congregation. A woman isn't supposed to be speaking in church at all (1 Timothy 2:11-12).



Is respecting God really a hindrance? Can't you take that little bit of extra effort?

Brother Mark
Dec 15th 2007, 09:41 PM
IMO? It's not about your opinion, it's about God's opinion. I didn't see anything in the Scripture about leading prayer or speaking out in front of the congregation. A woman isn't supposed to be speaking in church at all (1 Timothy 2:11-12).



Is respecting God really a hindrance? Can't you take that little bit of extra effort?

I wonder if Phillips daughters spoke since they were prophets. Or Miriam? It's all about authority my friend.

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 09:45 PM
Aren't Paul's writings as inspired as the Torah? ;)
I believe that Paul was human and still could have held on to some man-made traditions. Sometimes he says in his writings (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Tim++2:12), "I permit" not YHWH permits, kindof like how Moses(not YHWH) permitted divorce (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat019.html#7). ;) If something someone says doesn't mesh with what YHWH/Yahushua says then I don't necessarily take it as gospel.

Brother Mark
Dec 15th 2007, 09:47 PM
I believe that Paul was human and still could have held on to some man-made traditions. Sometimes he says in his writings (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Tim++2:12), "I permit" not YHWH permits, kindof like how Moses(not YHWH) permitted divorce (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat019.html#7). ;) If something someone says doesn't mesh with what YHWH/Yahushua says then I don't necessarily take it as gospel.

Could Moses have also held on to some man made traditions and put them in the Torah?

Tanya~
Dec 15th 2007, 09:53 PM
IMO? It's not about your opinion, it's about God's opinion. I didn't see anything in the Scripture about leading prayer or speaking out in front of the congregation. A woman isn't supposed to be speaking in church at all (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

How then can she prophesy? By definition, prophecy is speaking. Prayer is also speaking. In the context of this passage, Paul is talking about how the people are to behave in the public assembly. When a woman prayed or prophesied in the public meeting, Paul taught that she should wear a covering. The man on the other hand, was not to be covered when he did the same things.



Is respecting God really a hindrance? Can't you take that little bit of extra effort?

I would be all for it if I was convinced that your view is correct. If I'm driving in the car, and need to pray, then no I can't take the extra effort. If I'm standing at the kitchen sink doing dishes, where I pray often, then no, I'm not going to go and get a shawl to put on my head. I literally do pray all the time. I can't go around with a shawl over my head. People would mistake me for a Muslim in my city.

I agree it's not about my opinion. But I said IMO because I understand that there is more than one view about this. There are some who have the custom of keeping women covered. If that is your custom, I won't tell you that it's wrong. God will judge me on the matter, and if I sin by not covering my head then He will deal with me. but my conscience is clear, because I'm not praying or prophesying in the church.

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 09:57 PM
Could Moses have also held on to some man made traditions and put them in the Torah?
Obviously, as Yahushua pointed out about the divorce being of Moses and not YHWH.

Brother Mark
Dec 15th 2007, 09:58 PM
Obviously, as Yahushua pointed out about the divorce being of Moses and not YHWH.

Just checking. Wanted to know if all scripture was inspired or not. But back to the topic at hand. ;)

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 10:20 PM
You really think women were shaving their heads bald left and right??

I think what he was addressing is that some women were probably wearing their hair cut short just like some choose to do today. I believe it's connected to the Command in Deut 22:5...

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto YHWH thy God.

Iow, women shouldn't take on the appearance of men and vice versa.



IF it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

What this verse indicates to me is that if it's a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven then don't wear your hair short either, let her be covered/let her wear her hair long.



...so, if he's basically saying a woman having her head shaven is the SAME THING as being uncovered, how is her hair the covering that he's talking about?

AS I pointed out several times, verse 15 shows that her long hair is her covering.


Of course.

In that line I repeated, there is a clear differentiation between hair and the covering. By saying IF, the two things (a woman being shaved, a woman being uncovered) are equated (comparatively), but made clearly to not be the same thing.
I believe he's talking about long hair being a womans covering and is comparing a short boy cut with the same thing as shaving the hair completely off.

Studyin'2Show
Dec 15th 2007, 10:27 PM
Just checking. Wanted to know if all scripture was inspired or not. But back to the topic at hand. ;)Sure, it's ALL inspired but not necessarily all for a blueprint or step by step scenario for us to follow. The so-called wisdom Job's friends offered was not really wisdom, was it? :hmm: IMO, some things are to teach us about human nature and HOW it conflicts with the Spirit of God. This is why RIGHTLY dividing the word is so crucial to gaining understanding. ;)

God Bless!

diffangle
Dec 15th 2007, 10:41 PM
I can't go around with a shawl over my head. People would mistake me for a Muslim in my city.


How about a nice burqua for you? :lol:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:AB5ReY9CsUhubM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Burqa_Afghanistan_01.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Burqa_Afghanistan_01.jpg)

Mercy4Me
Dec 15th 2007, 11:24 PM
I'm just wondering how many of you practice head covering, and if so, why. I was recently exposed to it for the first time, and after reading the Bible, have determined that women should be covering heads, but since very few people do so, I wonder why.

It has been explained to me that many believe it is an outdated practice, and this teaching was meant specifically for the Church at Corinth; however, women continued to cover heads for many years afterward.

Any insight is appreciated. :)


"3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." --1 Corinthians 11:3-10

Well, I'd like to answer the OP here without entering into the debate, if that's possible! :)

I have been wearing a head covering for about 14 years now; I researched it and tried to pick apart the verses and see what was meant, but kept coming back to the conclusion that the verses meant what they said. As someone stated, it has been the practice of women over the centuries to wear a covering, at the very least in church, all the way down to hats, until recently.

It's true that most women don't cover today, but there are some that do! I believe that it is meant to be worn for prayer and prophesying, not necessarily in public assembly only...for me it's been easiest just to wear a scarf (not a shawl or anything that would look either Muslim or Catholic) all the time so I don't have the hindrance of trying to find something to put on my head when I want to pray. I have some nerve injuries in my arm, though, and it is becoming more and more difficult to tie a scarf on, so at home I usually just hang a scarf around my neck or keep it nearby to use when needed. If I am in a situation where I am not able to cover but need to pray, I simply pray and trust that God understands the circumstance! With the disability I have, I sometimes have to spend time in bed...also have a therapeutic bath...both of these places are not convenient to cover, but probably the places I do most of my praying! God is not limited to hearing only prayers issued from a covered head...it is a covered heart that He desires, and one that is turned to Him in trust and obedience to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I simply want to share my own experience with you...I don't want to condemn or argue with anyone who does not see things the way I do. It is an issue that is between us, our husbands, and God. I do this not to keep a "law" or to earn my way to heaven...but only because I believe that this is what is meant in the verses that have been quoted. I could be wrong, of course! But for me this is the best interpretation I've been able to come up with, setting aside today's culture and practice and trying to look at things without bias. The principle of headship is still in place throughout the rest of Scripture, which indicates to me that the practice of the covering was not simply cultural.

How does your husband feel about it? That would be of primary importance, to me...I've seen women come to the same conclusion as I have, and insist on wearing a covering when their husbands did not see it the same way, and did not want them to! That would be going completely against the whole intent of the covering...:rolleyes:

It's not easy to go against the flow, even the Christian "flow"! But if God leads us to a conviction, it's up to us to follow it, no matter how much of a sacrifice or inconvenience it might seem to be. Wearing a covering is nothing compared to what many Christians give up to follow God!

Blessings to you as you search this out for yourself...:hug:

FaithfulSheep
Dec 15th 2007, 11:50 PM
My pastor has preached on this before. I found a message that better explains what he said than I can. This comes from this site (http://bteministries.org/node/312).

1 Corinthians 11:2-16 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Corinthians+11:2-16) was written by Paul because of a very special circumstance in Corinth. In Corinth, the prostitutes wandered outside of the temple with shaved heads. Their shaved heads were not only an advertisement of who they were, but also a sign of their rebellion to God's order. In response to that, Paul wrote the following three sections: Section #1
1 Corinthians 11:2-3 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Corinthians+11:2-3): The Tradition
Verses 2 and 3 describe the tradition handed down by Paul to all churches (see verse 16 below) regarding God's order of things; specifically that the head of the man is Christ, the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Section #2
1 Corinthians 11:4-12 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Corinthians+11:4-12): The Explanation
Beginning with verse 4, Paul explains how this tradition applies directly to the church in Corinth. Verse 4 states that for a man to have his head covered during prayer or prophecy is a shame, while verse 5 says that it is a shame for a woman to have her head uncovered during prayer or prophecy.
Verse 6 gives two commands: Command #1 If a woman wants no covering for her head, let her be shaved (since she will be rebellious to God's order). Command #2 If it is a shame to her to have shorn or shaved hair, let her be covered (if she desires to show God's order).
Verse 7 explains that it is necessary for the man to be uncovered because he is made in the image and glory of God, but the woman is the glory of man.
Verses 8 and 9 gives the reasons for Verse 7. Reason #1 - Man is not from out of woman, but the woman is from out of the man. Reason #2 - The man was not created for woman, but the woman was created for the man.
Verse 10 says that because of these two reasons, it is necessary that the woman have a covering on her head, because of the angels. Angels watch the church to see God's order. Paul is saying that the angels should not see rebellion to God's order in the church.
Verse 11 states that in spite of the stated truths, man is not to separate from (independent) the woman, and the woman is not to separate (independent) from the man. Verse 12 gives the reason for this - woman was made from out of man, and man was made through the woman and everything is from God.
Section #3
1 Corinthians 11:13-16 (http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=1+Corinthians+11:13-16): The Instruction
Verses 13 and 14 ask two questions. Verse 13, asks, Is it proper for a woman to pray to God uncovered? Verse 14, asks, Does not nature itself teach that if a man has long hair it is a dishonor to him?
Verse 15 makes the statement that if a woman should have long hair, it has been given to her as a covering.
Verse 16 says there is no other teaching, regarding the Lord's order, in the church.
Conclusion
Paul taught God's order in every church. In the city of Corinth, the women who were rebellious to God's order and were involved in immorality shaved their heads. Therefore Paul commanded the women in the church in Corinth to choose what they wanted their lives to express - if rebellion, then they were to shave their heads; if submission to God's order, then they were to let their hair grow long. All of the words about "the covering" in verses 2-14 are said to be a woman's hair in verse 15. This was a special incident in Corinth and no other churches were commanded to do this.

Ta-An
Dec 16th 2007, 05:26 PM
....just from another angle.....

In Jewish custom, even women with long hair cover.... as men often find long hair desirable on a women... and because we assume that the Angels are male... therefor if is advised that women needs to cover their hair (Their glory) from the angels and men... I say 'angels' because when we pray we are in the presence of G_d, and there His angels are also...
A woman is allowed to let her hair down in front of her husband only :)

ImmenseDisciple
Dec 16th 2007, 07:28 PM
As I understand it, this is purely about the culture of the day. For a woman to be seen with her head uncovered in public would be to dishonour her husband, and therefore dishonour God. The passage states simply that praying and prophesying should not be made exempt. Many women would have felt so liberated through the spirit that they realised that there was no good reason for them to keep their head covered. Rather than to court needless controversy by rejecting the customs of the day, Paul tells them to observe the same practices of the rest of society, even though they are, of course, meaningless. God does not care if your head is covered. He simply does not.

As such customs are not observed by the general public of today, there is no cause to 'follow suit' in order not to shock and offend.

To elaborate a little- when he says "If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off" he means that little distinction would be made by people outside the church. She 'may as well' have her hair cut off, as it were.

melbel816
Dec 20th 2007, 05:50 AM
Just wanted to thank everyone for the replies and discussion:)

Basically everything that has been said is what has been going through my mind. But what I'm beginning to realize after much prayer is that I may be looking for excuses NOT to cover. I've always been somewhat of a skeptic, and reluctant to do something just because someone tells me to. So when I first heard about covering, I flat out refused to listen to anything about it. I'm now realizing that the only reason I DON'T cover as of this point is because I am uncomfortable with it having never seen it done, or done it myself. From deciding when exactly to cover, to remembering to cover, to knowing even where to buy a veil that I see other women wearing at meetings!

Is there anyone else who went through a tough time in deciding to cover? Are there any women that don't cover that may not because of the same reasons I don't?

I'm still praying about this issue...and it's leading towards covering.

Athanasius
Dec 20th 2007, 06:24 AM
I think I'm beginning to understand why all the women I know have a general dislike of Pauline scripture.
I think the thing we have to remember is that Paul was generally addressing issues, concerns and questions within the early church community. Within the context of Paul's society and culture.

I mean, can we take the 1 Corinthians 11:5

1Co 11:5 And every woman who prays or prophesies w with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved.

And declare, Women should cover their heads!
Never mind about verse 13-15.

1Co 11:13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
1Co 11:15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

Then we could take 1 Corinthians 11:7-9

1Co 11:7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
1Co 11:8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
1Co 11:9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Combine it with 1 Timothy 2:9-`5
Interesting logic for a man not covering his head, don't you think? Men shouldn't cover their heads because he is the image and glory of God?
You think that maybe women were distracting men in worship?

1Ti 2:9 I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
1Ti 2:10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
1Ti 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1Ti 2:15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

And then we're left with centuries of oppression because of poor hermeneutics.

I think Paul was addressing his own situation of the time and that these verses apply to his context. Major point being--be respectful in worship! Inspired word of God, yes! But, how many Christians now are living their lives according to Numbers? If that came off as slightly impassioned, I apologize.

Whispering Grace
Dec 20th 2007, 05:26 PM
I think I'm beginning to understand why all the women I know have a general dislike of Pauline scripture.

I am not a woman you know, but I love Paul's epistles, just as I love every other God-breathed book of the Bible. :)

To address the topic:

I don't cover my head, but I do wear my hair long. I haven't cut it in about a year and half and probably won't ever cut it again.

My understanding is that our hair is given to us as a covering. If, down the road, the Lord gives me a different understanding, I will be more than happy to wear a covering. Until then, I believe I am abiding by what Scripture says.

Ta-An
Dec 20th 2007, 05:40 PM
I have spoken to a Muslim woman today about her head covering, her first reply was...It is commanded in the Koran (Their scriptures) and secondly because her beauty is for her husband :)

Yes, I know different culture and different religion....

.... so the main idea is for a woman to hide her beauty,,, or otherwise .....cut your hair off.... but if we in any case cut, so why wear a head covering :hmm:

ImmenseDisciple
Dec 20th 2007, 06:34 PM
As it happens, my mum loves pauline scripture. But fair enough, I'm sure there's plenty of women who don't :D

Whispering Grace
Dec 20th 2007, 06:41 PM
But fair enough, I'm sure there's plenty of women who don't :D

Seriously....if there are women who do not like the Word of God, they probably need to repent!

Tanya~
Dec 20th 2007, 09:21 PM
...where to buy a veil that I see other women wearing at meetings!

Is there anyone else who went through a tough time in deciding to cover? Are there any women that don't cover that may not because of the same reasons I don't?

If this is the custom in your church then it makes perfect sense that you would keep to that custom. If my church had that custom, I would happily go along with it.

Ta-An
Dec 21st 2007, 05:01 AM
Seriously....if there are women who do not like the Word of God, they probably need to repent!
I went to church covered and the ministers wife asked me if I have become a Muslim now.... :o
My friend attends a church where they have to cover, when she came to church with me she covered because she felt undressed .

So some people cover because they have to, others cover because they want to.... totally different hearts :D

Athanasius
Dec 21st 2007, 05:13 AM
Seriously....if there are women who do not like the Word of God, they probably need to repent!

Where is it a pre-requisite to like everything that's written in the Bible?
I believe it to be the inspired word of God (2 Timothy 3:16), but I may not necessarily like parts of it.

ddmor
Dec 21st 2007, 06:46 AM
I wear a covering. I wear one because of 1 Cor 11:10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

See - I don't see how it can be a social custom if the angels are involved. I'm not really sure what it means, so I err on safety's side. If God wants us to wear a covering, and I don't - He will judge my motive for not obeying, but if God doesn't care and I wear a covering ... no harm done -- as long as I don't make it a matter of fellowship - which I don't.

Whether one wears a covering or not - let it be done for His glory.

Ta-An
Dec 21st 2007, 10:01 AM
I suppose another way of looking at this is : If my uncovered hair makes somebody else to sin......do I cover my head :hmm: and under which circumstanced should I do so??

Studyin'2Show
Dec 21st 2007, 10:55 AM
I Corinthians 11:13-16
13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

This is why I believe this is something that can go either way and should not cause contention in the body of believers. First, he says we can judge for ourselves. No, it is not a dishonor for a man to have long hair, nor is it a dishonor for a woman to have short hair in my culture. Then he says that the churches have no custom of this practice. This seems to show that this was an issue specific to Corinth. That's my interpretation. If I believed it was a requirement, I would have no trouble with obeying but I don't read the text that it is a command from God for me.

God Bless!

Mercy4Me
Dec 21st 2007, 12:57 PM
Just wanted to thank everyone for the replies and discussion:)

Basically everything that has been said is what has been going through my mind. But what I'm beginning to realize after much prayer is that I may be looking for excuses NOT to cover. I've always been somewhat of a skeptic, and reluctant to do something just because someone tells me to. So when I first heard about covering, I flat out refused to listen to anything about it. I'm now realizing that the only reason I DON'T cover as of this point is because I am uncomfortable with it having never seen it done, or done it myself. From deciding when exactly to cover, to remembering to cover, to knowing even where to buy a veil that I see other women wearing at meetings!

Is there anyone else who went through a tough time in deciding to cover? Are there any women that don't cover that may not because of the same reasons I don't?

I'm still praying about this issue...and it's leading towards covering.

Melbel, I think everyone goes through this! I know I did! I did a lot of research on it, before and since beginning to cover but I could not explain it away other than on a cultural basis...and that would be our culture, not theirs! It was practiced in all the early churches, whether Jew or Gentile, in all the cities...it could not have been a cultural issue of the day. If you look up "Christian headcovering" on Wikipedia, it gives a very brief history, with some links at the bottom to some very good (and scholarly) articles about the covering. Marlowe's work delves deeply into the Greek text, and Myron Horst covers a lot about the myths regarding the covering today.(both are linked on Wiki) Scroll Publishing (you can google it) has a good article on the headcovering based on the writings of the early Christian Fathers (along with a link to photographs), and this article goes through a history of the covering and an indepth study of the passage: http://www.kingshouse.org/headcovering.htm

A lot of this research, for me, came later...often in response to questions such as yours. When I first began, though, the final thought that convinced me to start was the comment by a woman I had met that covered...she said "I would rather have God tell me that I needn't have covered, but that He appreciated my obedience to my interpretation of the Scripture, rather than questioning why I disobeyed a clear command." (much the same as DDMor shared!) It's not a decision to be made lightly, nor an easy one. When I began covering I knew only one other woman (the one I mentioned earlier) that I met at a homeschool conference, but she did not live anywhere near me. So it was very unfamiliar and awkward at first! I remember standing in the scarf section at a department store, looking for something to cover with...my face was burning and my heart was racing. To this day I remember that feeling! But in the end, I felt I had to obey God in this area, and what some may look at as confining, I found to be liberating!

If you have any specific questions that I could help answer, feel free to PM me (I'm not sure if your PM system is turned on yet, but if so, you're welcome to write). May God continue to guide and bless you as you continue to search His Word!

Tanya~
Dec 21st 2007, 03:07 PM
The context of the passage -- the reason for covering, should be kept in mind because man has a tendency to add to God's word. The instruction isn't about causing a man to sin because your hair is pretty. It isn't about going around in public, taking care that no man notices your pretty hair. It is about a woman having a symbol of authority on her head while praying or prophesying.

A judge in a court of law, wears his robe when he sits at the bench. That is his symbol of authority. A policeman wears a uniform and badge. That is his symbol of authority. When the policeman is off-duty or the judge is not in court, they don't wear their symbols. In the same way, the woman who is praying or prophesying in the public assembly is to have her head covered, because of what her head represents in the congregation, before the angels.

In the church, man represents Christ and woman represents man. Because of this, the woman is to have her head covered when she prays or prophesies in the church. It shows the understanding that Christ is the head of the church and that He is to be glorified. The woman is the glory of man.


1 Cor 11:6-7
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.

This passage isn't about how a woman is to accessorize when she goes shopping, or when she is cooking dinner. It's not about using one's hair to seduce. At the beginning Paul delineates the circumstances in which a woman was to be covered, and a man was to be uncovered. It was improper for a man to cover his head while praying or prophesying in church, but does that mean it was improper for a man to be covered out in the marketplace?

Whispering Grace
Dec 21st 2007, 03:20 PM
Where is it a pre-requisite to like everything that's written in the Bible?

I absolutely love and adore the One who wrote it. It stands to reason I am going to love what He wrote.

My delight and joy comes through obedience to God and His Word.

Whispering Grace
Dec 21st 2007, 03:45 PM
Honor God by putting on a material object this is idol worship in my book.

I guess you are going to have to show how anyone is worshiping their head covering. :confused

Perhaps we should just walk around nude rather than putting on those pesky "material objects" every day?

melbel816
Dec 21st 2007, 04:44 PM
If you have any specific questions that I could help answer, feel free to PM me (I'm not sure if your PM system is turned on yet, but if so, you're welcome to write). May God continue to guide and bless you as you continue to search His Word!

How do I go about getting PM turned on?

9Marksfan
Dec 21st 2007, 05:36 PM
I guess you are going to have to show how anyone is worshiping their head covering. :confused

Perhaps we should just walk around nude rather than putting on those pesky "material objects" every day?

I can see where kORGPADkONTROL is coming from and it's my concern about head coverings too - we are in the new covenant now and it's all about internal reality, not external ritual, which marked the old covenant, which has now been superseded by the new.

We have the external symbols of bread and wine for the Lord's Supper and water for baptism, but I can't see why it should be a prerequisite for all churches to have their womenfolk cover their heads with an external covering, when no other such "external" requirment or ritual is mentioned in the NT! It just seems that we're missing the point and the particular cultural setting in Corinth - I also question its use in our own western cultures - in the days of 1 Corinthians, wearing a head covering was a sign culturally of a wife's submission to her husband and it pointed to him as the head with the wife in submission. Nowadays a hat is a fashion accessory, that draws attention to the woman! Just think of weddings! JUST the kind of showiness Paul was writing against in 1 Tim 2!

Now I fully accept the underlying principle in 1 Cor 11 of order in the church and submission to the God-ordained authority - but Paul starts by referring to "traditions" and finishes by referring to "custom" - I think kORGPADkONTROL's point may be that we are in danger of making an idol out of this tradition (because that's what it is!) and that grieves the Spirit of God!

Mercy4Me
Dec 21st 2007, 06:26 PM
How do I go about getting PM turned on?

You have to have 10 posts, be here for 7 days, and have 0 or above reps (in other words, no negatives). Here's a link for more info on the PM system, with instructions for enabling it:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=37729

You have five posts to go; I'm not sure of your join date, but it needs to be at least a week before PMs can be enabled.

Hope this helps!

Ta-An
Dec 21st 2007, 06:46 PM
The bible is clear and tells us that a womens long hair is her covering.


1Co 11:15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

The bible tells us that a women is to use her long hair as her covering not a material object.

I can see how many can miss interpet these scriptures then they go out and buy a head covering made of cloth or an idol. The bible tells us that a women is to use her long hair as a covering not to be confused with a material possesion. So instead of using an earthly possesion to cover your face follow the bible and grow your hair and this is your covering. When you wear a material object to show your love for God this is idol worship. This is why the bible is clear and women are to use there Long hair as there covering.And if my hair is short?? :hmm:

Studyin'2Show
Dec 21st 2007, 07:12 PM
And if my hair is short?? :hmm:1 Corinthans 11:6 - For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.

I seems that it is an option. If it is shameful for a woman to have short hair, let it be covered. :hmm:

godsgirl
Dec 21st 2007, 07:15 PM
Short is a relative term-for then we would get into "how short"? So pray away!!!

Ta-An
Dec 21st 2007, 07:15 PM
1 Corinthans 11:6 - For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.

I seems that it is an option. If it is shameful for a woman to have short hair, let it be covered. :hmm:And if it is not my custom??

Studyin'2Show
Dec 21st 2007, 07:25 PM
And if it is not my custom??The way I read the passage, he's telling us to decide for ourselves because it is NOT a custom of the churches of God. So, cover if your led and don't if you're not. ;)

1 Corinthians 11:16 - But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

Sherrie
Dec 21st 2007, 07:30 PM
Well wasn't the veil torn down when Jesus died.

Sherrie
Dec 21st 2007, 07:35 PM
I do not hide my shame under a heading covering, but instead by the blood of Christ.

Ta-An
Dec 21st 2007, 07:36 PM
1 Corinthians 11:16 - But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.So S2S what does this quoted verse mean?? :hmm:.... to me it hangs in the air...:hmm:
Does it mean that if people argue about this... to cover or not....that it is for the worse?? and not the better :hmm:

Ta-An
Dec 21st 2007, 07:42 PM
I need to go find a Bible I understand :idea:

Studyin'2Show
Dec 21st 2007, 07:45 PM
So S2S what does this quoted verse mean?? :hmm:.... to me it hangs in the air...:hmm:
Does it mean that if people argue about this... to cover or not....that it is for the worse?? and not the better :hmm:My take is that he's saying not to get argumentative about it, since it's not a custom in other churches. Many people disagree and believe there is a command from God. So, I will not be contentious. :) If they choose to cover their heads, that is fine and I have no trouble with it. I just don't read it that way.

God Bless!

ImmenseDisciple
Dec 21st 2007, 07:53 PM
Being that the spirit leads us to acknowledge our sins (here I go, assuming everyone else is the same as me :D) I'd be interested to know- any female posters ever felt that it was calling them to reflect on their head not being covered? We've got the concept that it could be a sin right there in the book, so has the spirit given anyone conviction on this point, and led them to start covering their head?

Ta-An
Dec 21st 2007, 07:57 PM
... so has the spirit given anyone conviction on this point, and led them to start covering their head? During prayer or all the time??

Whispering Grace
Dec 21st 2007, 08:22 PM
I can see where kORGPADkONTROL is coming from and it's my concern about head coverings too - we are in the new covenant now and it's all about internal reality, not external ritual, which marked the old covenant, which has now been superseded by the new.



Yet we honor God every day with "material" things. I honor Him by choosing to dress modestly instead of walking around in a string bikini, for example.

My clothes are not an idol but a way that I choose to honor the Lord.

Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 1 Corinthians 10:31

ImmenseDisciple
Dec 21st 2007, 09:54 PM
Hmm. Could some fantastically knowledgable person tell me the likelihood that "angels" in 1 Cor 11:10 would rather be translated "pastor"? It makes no sense to me if it's "angels", if "pastor" it makes perfect sense, and my concordance has it listed as an alternative. Thanks.

The first thing I've ever looked up in a concordance :D

Studyin'2Show
Dec 21st 2007, 10:36 PM
Hmm. Could some fantastically knowledgable person tell me the likelihood that "angels" in 1 Cor 11:10 would rather be translated "pastor"? It makes no sense to me if it's "angels", if "pastor" it makes perfect sense, and my concordance has it listed as an alternative. Thanks.

The first thing I've ever looked up in a concordance :DI'm not sure how it fits with either. :hmm: Possibly it was something the Corinthians understood or it could be a cultural phrase that loses something in the translation.

ddmor
Dec 22nd 2007, 03:08 AM
I think we need to be careful here, calling people idolators is pretty serious.

Number 1 - God knows our hearts, and knows why we either wear or don't wear a covering. We can't make that judgement. If you don't wear one, I can't read your heart as to why. Only God knows.

Number 2 - lets be careful that we don't make this a matter of fellowship. I mean in the beginning I was afraid this thread was going to say you have to wear a covering or you're sinning ... now it's turned 90 degrees - now we're sinning if we wear one?

Ta-An
Dec 22nd 2007, 08:19 AM
Okay, I am chewing on this for a couple of days now....
Do we find head covering as a law in the OT?? I do not think so...
So what is being said in 1Cor is that it was their custom to cover their heads... it is not a 'new law' being written here :idea:
As I have said before, womans hair can draw the attention of male worshipers / pastors / angels in the presence of G_d, onto them ieo onto G_d, and therefore they should cover up.
As many posters have said... if G_d convicts you to cover your head with anything other than your hair... go for it :) if it is not customary or required in your church to cover up.... then be careful not to solicit with your hair!!

And I suppose that is where 'husband' comes into the story... he is your head, he is your covering, your beauty is for him... do not entice other men or draw attention to you from other men with your hair... for your beauty/solicitation is to your husband...

And this same thing we have seen in the Muslims as I have said before... they just cover up during daytime too, and not only during worship services.

Well and having seen some 'girlie wall-posters / magazines' before... look at those woman's hair..... always in a solicitation style..... so do not go to church looking like a pin-up model :idea:,,, and if you have natural beauty... do something with your hair :D

ImmenseDisciple
Dec 22nd 2007, 09:46 AM
Well and having seen some 'girlie wall-posters / magazines' before... look at those woman's hair..... always in a solicitation style.....

What do you mean by "solicitation style"? Looking nice? :D
To make a beautiful woman cover herself in case any men in the congregation are feeble enough that they cannot concentrate in her presence seems to be going about things the wrong way. It's their problem- they should cover their eyes :lol: or pluck them out, maybe...

melbel816
Dec 22nd 2007, 01:52 PM
I mean in the beginning I was afraid this thread was going to say you have to wear a covering or you're sinning ... now it's turned 90 degrees - now we're sinning if we wear one?

I think the most important thing to remember is that wearing a head covering is not going to have an effect on whether or not we get to heaven...but I do think it is important to want to please the One who is letting us join Him there!

homemaker
Jul 25th 2009, 04:32 PM
I have been Covering for 21 Years now, I do it, Because I see it in the word that it is something we should obey. So many women do not Cover because they do not want to be the first to step out, Because they will get so many looks, I would rather obey the word, Than worry what others think. It says That every woman who prays, Not just the ones at Corinth.So be encouraged, You are on the right path in Covering,
Karen





I'm just wondering how many of you practice head covering, and if so, why. I was recently exposed to it for the first time, and after reading the Bible, have determined that women should be covering heads, but since very few people do so, I wonder why.

It has been explained to me that many believe it is an outdated practice, and this teaching was meant specifically for the Church at Corinth; however, women continued to cover heads for many years afterward.

Any insight is appreciated. :)


"3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." --1 Corinthians 11:3-10

homemaker
Jul 25th 2009, 04:43 PM
God has a Order, We see that as we read the word. So many women believe that Covering is not for today. Or that it is just for back then. We see that GOD'S order has not changed on that men are the head over the woman. And it has not changed that Women are still to cover while in prayer. We can all make the word fit our own needs. Our own ways. But The Covering is for every Woman every where, Not just Cover in the Church. But at home as well. I cover Full Time, And I am just A Christain who sees this truth.