PDA

View Full Version : Denying Christ



AlainaJ
Dec 28th 2007, 09:42 PM
Can we as Christians deny Christ by our action?

Jesus teaches that those who deny Him, He will also deny......


2Tim.2 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5260495)

[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:We are also to take up our cross and deny ourselves.

So in fact, you can say Jesus is Lord, yet deny Him by your actions or refusal to follow him as a disciple.

Any thoughts?

Alaina

CoffeeBeaned
Dec 28th 2007, 09:49 PM
John 8:31-32 tells us that -

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

So if we do not hold to his teaching, then can we really say we are his disciples?

9Marksfan
Dec 28th 2007, 10:40 PM
This looks like it's going to be a challenging thread...

Look at this verse as well:-

"They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work." Tit 2:16 NKJV

We're told in the previous verse that these people are "defiled" and "unbelieving" - we need to maintain our faith and holy living and keep a pure mind and conscience if we are to avoid denying the LORD by our works - we need to persevere in growth!

Francine
Dec 28th 2007, 10:57 PM
So if we do not hold to his teaching, then can we really say we are his disciples?

We are told that all you have to do is at one point in your life, say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior." Anything after that is icing on the cake, but not required.

9Marksfan
Dec 28th 2007, 11:07 PM
We are told that all you have to do is at one point in your life, say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior." Anything after that is icing on the cake, but not required.

We may be told that by preachers, but it's definitely NOT the message of the NT! Listen to Jesus Himself:-

""If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after me cannot be My disciple". Lk 14:26-27 NKJV

"So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake everything he has cannot be My disciple". Lk 14:33 NKJV

CoffeeBeaned
Dec 28th 2007, 11:09 PM
We are told that all you have to do is at one point in your life, say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior." Anything after that is icing on the cake, but not required.

I wasn't told that and I don't think the Bible says that either. I see many places where the Bible tells us that we must "follow", "deny", or "obey".

I did a word study on the word "faith" as used in most of the New Testament. The greek word is "pistis" and means "trust with an implication that action will follow". This doesn't fit in with our definition of belief being a simple intellectual agreement with a fact. True belief in Christ means we will follow that belief up with action or "obedience".

My :2cents:

AlainaJ
Dec 28th 2007, 11:57 PM
We are told that all you have to do is at one point in your life, say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior." Anything after that is icing on the cake, but not required.
The demons can make a statement like that too- after all they masquerade as angels of light.

Let's look at more scripture......
Rom.6 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5033276)

[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered youRom.10 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5049019)

[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Salvation is more then acepting or asking Jesusn into yout heart. Salvation is believing that He died and rose again and you are willing to make Him Lord of your life and surrender your heart to Him. By faith you are beleiving that every word in the Bible is inspired by God......

Rom.2 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5019805)

[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Many people say I want to be a Christian..but are unwilling to die to the flesh and be born again as a new creature in Christ. Why? Becuase people like sin, so although they say they may accept Jesus...Jesus may not accept them..............

God Bless,
Alaina

MMC
Dec 29th 2007, 01:36 AM
We are told that all you have to do is at one point in your life, say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior." Anything after that is icing on the cake, but not required.

Hmm...interesting thread. I agree, and disagree, Francine.

"If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9-10.

Here's the thing though...if you truly "accept Jesus Christ as your personal LORD" you WILL obey his commands. So its not just "icing on the cake" - its evidence of the heart change that has taken place. I used to think it was just some easy transaction where if I said the right things - and even if I believed them with all my heart - I would be saved. But I had never actually surrendered my life to HIm. It's easy to accept Jesus as Savior. It's quite another to count the cost and say, "my life is no longer my own - Lord, do with me as you will. I am your servant." Servants must obey. They don't have a say in how they handle themselves -- they must do their master's bidding.

Once I learned this, and actually surrendered, the various teachings of Christ about following Him, and what it takes to enter the kingdom of heaven made a LOT more sense to me. It's not that "works" get us there, but faith without works ...is dead. The cool part is, the "works" don't really come from us at all - but from the Spirit who enables us to do His will. (All my righteousness is as filthy rags). Once a genuine surrender has happened, the HS has room to work.

brandonspopo
Dec 29th 2007, 09:49 PM
I agree with MMC. If you truly accept Christ as your savior, you are baptized by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit takes control of your life because you willingly surrender it. If you truly surrender, you can't help but become more like Jesus. That is how one can be certain they are saved, by their actions.
When we get saved, we are no longer under the law, nor will we be judged by it. We will then be under the judgment of Christ. This judgment is for the works we do with the knowledge we receive when we are saved. You are saved by faith, then and only then are we judged by our works. Some will receive more "crowns" than others. Put we will all place our crowns before God in worship. I can hardly wait.

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 1st 2008, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Francine View Post
We are told that all you have to do is at one point in your life, say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior." Anything after that is icing on the cake, but not required.I wasn't told that and I don't think the Bible says that either. I see many places where the Bible tells us that we must "follow", "deny", or "obey".

I did a word study on the word "faith" as used in most of the New Testament. The greek word is "pistis" and means "trust with an implication that action will follow". This doesn't fit in with our definition of belief being a simple intellectual agreement with a fact. True belief in Christ means we will follow that belief up with action or "obedience".Ecellent response!!!!!!! I'm thrilled to see such replies, they are of truth.

I woke this morning and my mind was immediatly led to this verse:

Mat 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Mat 16:25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

For whose sake are we to lose our life ? For Yeshua=The Word of God.All the commandments, everything He ever asked us to do or not to do. Everything Yeshua embodied is the Word of God in action, a perfect example of how to lose our life, for His sake, and we shall find resurrection.

BTW coffee beaned.... good study on the word pistis... you can take it a step further and study the Hebrew word "emunah" and "emun" = faith in the OT it backs all that up and more.. also "believe" is another good one to study.
EDIT: "Hear" =Shemah is another beautiful word to study. ("Hear o Israel")

Shalom,
Tanja

Partaker of Christ
Jan 3rd 2008, 10:27 PM
The demons can make a statement like that too- after all they masquerade as angels of light.

Let's look at more scripture......
Rom.6 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5033276)

[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered youRom.10 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5049019)

[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Salvation is more then acepting or asking Jesusn into yout heart. Salvation is believing that He died and rose again and you are willing to make Him Lord of your life and surrender your heart to Him. By faith you are beleiving that every word in the Bible is inspired by God......

Rom.2 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5019805)

[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,Many people say I want to be a Christian..but are unwilling to die to the flesh and be born again as a new creature in Christ. Why? Becuase people like sin, so although they say they may accept Jesus...Jesus may not accept them..............

God Bless,
Alaina

Hi Alaina!

You cannot die to the flesh, until you are born again.
You cannot hate sin, until you are born again.

How many preach/teach [or infer] that we have to become obedient, faithful servants, faithful disciples, abide to the end, run the race etc, before we can become children of God?

The truth is only those who are [first] children of God, can do and be those things.

Being a child of God, is a Heavenly matter.
Being a servant and disciple is a Kingdom matter.
Even Jesus had a time when He was to do the Kingdom work

AlainaJ
Jan 3rd 2008, 10:49 PM
Hi Alaina!

You cannot die to the flesh, until you are born again.
You cannot hate sin, until you are born again.

How many preach/teach [or infer] that we have to become obedient, faithful servants, faithful disciples, abide to the end, run the race etc, before we can become children of God?

The truth is only those who are [first] children of God, can do and be those things.

Being a child of God, is a Heavenly matter.
Being a servant and disciple is a Kingdom matter.
Even Jesus had a time when He was to do the Kingdom work

Exactly:)

Before salvation we can not desire the things of God, becuase His spirit is not in us.

After Salvation, we are born again. That is why Jesus says, that you must be born again to see the Kingdom of Heaven.

God changes us into a new creature, so we can become like His Son.

John.3 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=4769415)


[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. God Bless,
Alaina

[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.