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ClayJar
Jan 2nd 2008, 03:28 PM
Hello everyone

Am new here and had a read of the threads and have been greatly encouraged by the biblically-based advice given. I have seen so many other relationship-support forums that offer a lot of well-intended advice on dating nonchristians (and we all know the path to hell is paved with good intentions) but not all of them biblically sound.

Reading a lot of your testimonies here have made me cry as I realise how gracious God has been to me - I am not married to the man that I am trying hard to let go of emotionally. I prayed for each one of you whose posts I have read here. Thank you for sharing your lives - always be encouraged that brothers and sisters in Christ like myself are benefitting from it.

Most of the stories here are by people who weren't Christians when they got married to nonChristians, or were Christians when they were married but were at a stage of their spiritual lives where they weren't quite aware of the sin of marrying a nonbeliever. My situation is not the same, in fact my sin was graver because I did it with my eyes wide open.

I have been a Christian ever since I was 6 when I was placed in a christian school and all my life and God has been very good to me - I had the privilege of learning about Him and my faith grew over 2 decades of sunday school, youth groups, and a variety of solid, bible-believing churches. By God's grace, I came to believe that our sole purpose for living here is to Glorify God by bringing as many as possible to His kingdom. I read Josh Harris' books on I Kissed Dating Goodbye and Boy Meets Girl - and they encouraged me greatly. I have a passion for seeing the people I meet and love one day come to be saved through Jesus Christ and believe very firmly that that is our ultimate calling in life as Christians. I love theology, apologetics and even topped a theology course my church ran. Through all the most difficult things in my life, God has taught me to rely on Him rather than myself, and I have much to thank Him for.

But I have a weakness: relationships with nonChristians. Somehow all my life, not so much by my own strength but by God's grace, any potential romantic involvement with nonChristian boys never amounted to anything that would have devastated me - either my girlhood crushes never amounted to anything and just faded away, or, more commonly, if they pursued me, I find out that they were only really interested in lust (I was a very rational teenager) when they gave up pretty quickly once they realised that I was a 'serious' Christian - until now.

A women's pastor whom I confided in once told me that it has been 'easy' so far to stay away from nonChristians because they have all been either emotionally unavailable or they were 'only after one thing' - which made it easier to say 'no'. But what if one day I were to meet a perfectly decent man who by the world's standards, was a 'good person', would make a wonderful husband and may well agree by my Christian values - but I knew he was just not a Christian. What was I going to do then? Would I put God first and be able to walk away from this man? Or would I stubbornly date him? She got offered a job in a church in another country and when she left, I met such a man. I never met anyone that I got along with so well. I never met anyone who wanted so much to be with me. And I disobeyed God. And for the first time in my life, my faith is Really being tested. I read somewhere that "Turning intellectual faith into our personal possession is always a fight, not just sometimes." - I now truly truly understand this.

I know that a husband is supposed to be a spiritual leader, that the purpose of a Christian marriage is to have two people loving God FIRST and because of that love, they will obey God's command to prioritise the spiritual welfare of their spouse SECOND so that together, they can support each other in living for God by serving others (THIRD) and bringing them into a relationship with God. I still want this in my marriage.

And Yet, Pride told me, "I can save him. He understands me so well, he's learnt philosophy, he's well-read, he grew up going to church (and still rejected Jesus as His personal saviour), we have So Much in common, he even understands everything that I say to him in all our discussions on the meaning of life... SURELY he'll UNDERSTAND if I just spend more time with him, if I find a way to make the message Clearer." And then when it became obvious that ALL my apologetic and rational arguments were going nowhere with him, by this time I'd already learnt to care about him and the strong emotional bondage was already formed, so Pride stubbornly continued in desperation, "He may get resentful of my attempts to convert him, but he'll never hear about Christianity from anyone else. I can sacrifice my fairy-tale ideal, I'll sacrifice what I know is God's good plan for a Christian marriage. I'll try and accept him for who he is and live with the burden of an unyoked marriage. Because I just can't live without him!!" As the old puritan saying goes “What the heart loves the will chooses and the mind justifies”.

What I didn't expect was the pain of seeing someone you've given so much of yourself to, reject the Gospel message. He didn't understand why we could not come to some agreement - he understood enough of Christianity to agree with most of its teachings and morals and thought that was enough, in fact, he was very happy that I was a Christian because that would mean I would make a loyal, loving wife. But I knew that wouldn't be enough. A Humanist reliant on the Self to define the meaning and purpose of his life (without acknowledging God's say on it) and who depends on the Self to have the strength or ability to achieve what the Self has perceived as his calling, may well agree with many of the bible's teachings on what's right and wrong.. But the pride/dependency is still on the Self where Jesus has taught that unless the self-will yields and is subjected to His Will, it is still Rebellion against Him - ie, sin.

The other scary thing I found was, for the first time in my life, I felt like I was Lost.

--- Let me explain: you know the fear you have as children when you watch adults who have lived so long thinking a certain way that it has dictated what they live for and the way their characters have been shaped? And you tell yourself, I don't want to become like that, I need to monitor how my thinking shapes as I grow and learn - so we keep diaries etc.. and as a Christian, I learnt that we have the yardstick of the bible that never changes - which is what gives us peace so we never have to worry if our minds and our characters are changing over time for the worse without our knowing. I've always felt and knew that I had peace regarding the future, I was always in joyful expectation that God was in charge - It's something Christians Easily take for granted and Forget. ---

Now I remembered what it felt like being Lost. And I believe God was telling me that I was forfeiting this peace. I knew that I was 'losing' that yardstick. I would literally be looking into the darkness and instead of comfort, I felt like I was looking into a hollow emptiness that I knew was the future with no dependency on God. That was The First time I knew what it was like to be part of the world - Desolate. It's really awful. Terrifying, to the extent that my stomach made me feel physically ill. Have you ever experienced that? I would wonder how he could sleep as a nonbeliever with no assurance of God's love and protection. At first I thought it was just guilt that I was experiencing from being in this relationship - well, there would be - but it was more than that. I felt like God was giving me a taste of the future if I chose to be in this relationship, because I felt deserted by everything Good (but I knew the reality is that I was attempting to desert God) - That is hell - not so much a couldron of brimstone but this desolation of being separated from everything good.

It was those times that scared me so much that I was able to flee several times. At those times, I would ask him to forgive me for leaving him. But the pain of separation and the thought of him dating and being with other people, marrying someone else, would pull me back to him. He's an addiction that is still very hard to let go of. What pains me the most - is that he does not see that not being with him is actually the most loving thing I could do for him because I was prioritising his salvation over what I want (the relationship). I couldn't do anything more about his salvation - I had to give him up to God. He couldn't understand that. Heaven and hell and the urgency of salvation are not real to him so of course he wouldn't understand. But I know that it's not important what he thinks of me, it's more important what he thinks of God. To him, I was loving when I wanted to be with him and Unloving when I pulled away. A Christian friend even told me once, that if he were ever to become a Christian one day, he will realise that my emotional ill-discipline was actually sinful. That made me grieve because I felt that I'd hindered his salvation rather than help it. He got angry and bitter, and said I'd just proved that organised religion and especially Christianity with its insistent, judgmental God, was incoherent and a burden to its followers. And I have to admit, sometimes when I felt the agony of separating from him, I actually began to think that he was right!! I'd forget that Christian suffering were opportunities to choose to go Back to God and be refined by the Refiner's fire. Can you imagine how I nearly fell away from Everything I knew was True?? Maybe one day if the Holy Spirit wills for the spiritual blindness to be lifted from his eyes, he will understand and forgive me.

After so much emotional turmoil, he recognises that it's not working, and he's actually the one who 'severed' it because he sees no future in this. It has been heartbreaking, but he did what I tried doing and could not do. He has been through more relationships and this is my first, that just breaks my heart even more because I don't know now if his affections were ever genuine, which in turn makes me feel like I can't trust anyone now, which in turn makes me doubt my ability to judge. And now I understand why self-confidence is dealt such a blow with heartbreak. But of course I must find my confidence in our worth from the Lord, right? We are blessed that way.

People say, nonChristians particularly, that you have to Want to let it go/get over it/give it up, or you never will.
Well, I've given up willing myself to do that because I Know that's not going to work. Why? Because I jolly well know that I still care about him, I think a part of you never forgets the first person you give your heart away to. And that's the problem, we were never supposed to give our heart away to anyone - I've always known that and TOLD myself right from the start, even said it to him, that my heart first belongs to God. But I think the moment you start finding a way to have what you think you can't bear to lose (so, in my case, I tried converting him), you are already in the process of giving your heart away - and anything besides God that you give your heart away to is an idol. I'm imagining that with a Christian man, that falling in love will be Different because our hearts are already with God.

I Know all the answers - my head knows every biblical reason that a relationship with a nonchristian is just not worth it. It is a sure-fire way to wander off the narrow path and is Satan's most effective tactics because relationships are man's greatest area of weakness because the heart is the wellspring of life. But for the first time in my life, I understand how strong and deceptive emotions can really be. I still vacillate between wanting to obey God and still wanting the guy back!

Back to pysching myself to 'get over' him - I don't think it's possible. Instead, I'm going to try and just divert my attention to making God the desire of my heart. I had it before, I lost it when I disobeyed, I know God will find me again. I'm crying as I'm typing this because I've broken God's heart and yet God FORGIVES and takes me back. I think of how the nonChristian guy took me back so times, but he has his own Self-purposes to want me (he wants loyalty and support of a partner) - but God takes me back purely because He loves me and wants the best for me. Well, God has his own self-purposes of wanting me to Glorify Him with my life by using me to bring others to His kingdom - but in the process We are made more like Jesus and we have already been promised eternal life - how could we possibly complain?? Jars of Clay is singing out, Is there Grace for a wayward heart? Yes there is.

The hardest thing now is Giving Up the HOPE that he will return one day to me as a Christian - because at a time when things are hard to get over, I'm desperately clinging on to this hope for the strength to resist the temptation of contacting him (we tried being friends before and it didn't work so cutting all contact is the only way really). And yet I know that he is most likely not going to ever be one, and to think that God will reward this way if I obey Him now is just poisonous (people keep telling me that God WILL reward - just not maybe with this guy coming back a Christian - but with someone else better, someone He has planned to be The One - I just haven't met him yet, and of course though rationally they are right, right now I don't Feel like this could ever be true). If anyone has been through this or has any advice to give on this, please please share it with me.

Sorry this has been so long. This seems like a self-serving article - there is some therapeutic value in sharing with a world of strangers my story - and to ask for global prayer with my current spiritual battle. I still need to exercise self-control because the temptation to go back is there All The Time.

karenoka27
Jan 3rd 2008, 04:58 AM
Hi and welcome to the board.
I have to go back and read what you wrote again, but I want to encourage you in this. The Lord will never leave us nor forsake us. You cannot disappoint our Lord..He is much bigger than that. I am certain that He is rejoicing over the fact that you want to draw close to Him again..and I am praying that you will desire to stay there.
I will post more to you tomorrow. :hug:

ClayJar
Jan 3rd 2008, 10:31 PM
Thank you.
This is really hard though. I hadn't seen him in a while and then Just as I posted my story on this thread yesterday, I see him on the same day! What's up with that God? Well, we work in the same area in our city so it would happen - and I've always mentally prepared myself just in the event I see him walking around with another girl, or find out that he's seeing someone. But you know, no amount of mental preparation helped! It has been a month since I last saw him - He was talking to some people, and he looked, well, good. Happy. Over me. I quickly hid myself so he wouldn't see me and couldn't concentrate anymore on what the person beside me was saying. And all the feelings flooded back in a second. The pain is terrible, and no amount of telling myself that Jesus went through the ultimate suffering in comparison to my pathetic suffering, helped. I'm either feeling so down that I can't concentrate at work or don't feel like even getting out of bed, or I'm so tired of fighting the pain and tired of reminding myself of allll the reasons why I shouldn't go back (like writing long posts to web forums!).

Right there and then, seeing him in person, I really felt like I couldn't go on, I wanted to go up to him and say hello. I feel like I'm Lot's wife turning back every time I fall into Satan's trap of despair and wanting to give up. Yet I know I'm not a robot and that human emotions take Time to get over. Current deep sharp acute pain vs Lifetime of slow agony in unyoked relationship - Call me pathetic, weak, and foolish for thinking that the former is too hard to bear and that I'd trade it in for the latter... but right now I do. I really feel like throwing in the towel on God sometimes. Sometimes I tell God, 'you said before you will never give me anything I cannot handle and you will provide a way out when I'm faced with temptation.. but SERIOUSLY.. This is Too Hard!'

2 things kept me from going up to him and initiating contact again: (1) Pride. I've done this so many times before I doubt he will think that I'm serious... so I know he won't believe exactly how hurt and in pain I really am (and that in turn will hurt me), so I know there is no point (2) I'll be yet again giving Christianity a bad name - I know staying away from him would encourage him to think that my strength comes from God and not from myself (but then again, maybe he won't... and then I get depressed again thinking that he'll Never be a Christian and more depressed that I'm not succeeding in giving up this hope that I'm using as the motivation to stay away)

ClayJar
Jan 3rd 2008, 10:45 PM
Oh and, I'm sorry for that last post - I feel like that wasn't helpful for others to read. And the last thing I want is for others to be discouraged. I already feel like I've done a disservice to my own friends who have always looked up to me as a strong Christian sister and I've let them down as I confided this problem to them. Accountability is important but I feel my Christian sisters are despairing because I don't seem to be 'improving' - all this prayer and support and no results. People mistake the fact that just because I am able to voice out what I Know, doesn't mean that how I Feel is the same - I seem to know all the biblical answers, but I now know I'm not as strong as I appear, going back to the nonChristian again and again confirmed that. Could I please ask that anyone reading this to please pray for me? That I'm sure God would want, for prayer strengthens both the person who prays and the person prayed for. Thank you

karenoka27
Jan 5th 2008, 12:41 AM
I am bringing you before the Lord.

Can I ask around how old you are? You seem to be really hard on yourself.
Life goes on and we have to go with it. There is no relationship with this person so you need to keep moving. From the way you write it sounds like you have good friends who are Christians and I'm glad to hear that.
Praying for that someone special to come into your life as you continue walking with our Lord.

ClayJar
Jan 5th 2008, 02:23 AM
Hi Karenoka
I'm 27. Thank you so much for your prayers.
Yes, I'm blessed to have Christian friends.

Hard on myself? I just want to deal with this the Correct way, not just Any way to make obeying God easier. One of my friends pointed out to me that I'm Still not depending on God in this, because I'm depending on the Hope that the guy will one day become a Christian and come back to me. It's so true. I cried for hours because that's the painful thing to accept and let go.

Do I not believe that God is Good? Yes. Do I not believe that He is faithful and can be trusted, even when we can't tell what His plans are? Yes. Do I not believe He can change me to be able to love again? Yes. Do I not believe that He has plans to prosper you, not to harm you? Yes.
Well, ClayJar, you have all your answers, why are you still crying?
Because accepting that this guy is not the one, not now, not with what I know, is HARD. Because I've given so much, and now have to walk away?! (And yet, Jesus gave His very life and we humans don't recognise that sacrifice.) Because I can't imagine living without him, and yet I also can't imagine living without God.

This test of faith is HARD. I came So close yesterday to just giving up. But I was too afraid to do even that because I know I'd be deliberately turning my back on God - and that thought of desolation without God just Scared me. Humans are truly pathetic!

Someone said this will be make you stronger in the Lord - yeah, good to know, even though right now I don't feel like it, and to be honest I don't really care. All I know is I have to just stick with this path, and not go back to the guy - which verse was it that said let your yes be yes and your no be no.

Hurts like hell. Maybe some good will come out of this. Maybe my story here will encourage Christians out there (whoever who had the patience to read through all this) to not even CONTEMPLATE dating a nonChristian. You Don't need to date anyone to find out if he's a Christian. You CAN'T convert someone - the best way to do so is to BE Christian - because they'll see that your willingness to obey God is what makes you special, and in turn, be attracted to Christianity. So basic, yet so easy to forget. Don't be like me, who nearly fell away. I think with sorrow about the regret, the heartache, I'm going through now, and the thought that I've hindered this guy's salvation due to my lack of faith....

But no, I'll stop now. Because I'm lapsing back into despair and really, his salvation is not my call. I have to keep reminding myself of that. It never was in my control, and I need to hand it back to God and just focus on depending on Him and Him alone to get through this. Only He can make something beautiful out of the mess I've made and the pain I've caused. May we all continue to trust in Him and Not ourselves.

karenoka27
Jan 5th 2008, 02:26 AM
I've been where you are so I know what I am talking about when I say that you have to move on. He wasn't meant to be in your life. Perhaps someday if he comes to know the Lord as His Savior, and then the Lord puts him on your path then things would be different..but you can't sit and wait to see if that happens. There is so much waiting ahead for you..seek the Lord's will for your life. Perhaps the man you are really searching for is just up ahead on your path...keep walking.:hug:

RoadWarrior
Jan 5th 2008, 02:53 AM
Hi Clayjar, and welcome to the board.

You are doing the right thing. Yes it is hard. But you are doing the right thing. I knew someone who did a very similar thing, and knew she should not be dating a non-Christian but she did. She had a really hard time breaking up, but when she knew that he was rejecting Christ, she knew she had to break it. She cried and cried, because it hurt. It is very painful. But she knew she was doing the right thing.

Then she started going to Christian singles meetings, and there she met her husband.

The Psalm tells us that we walk "through" the valley of the shadow of death, and that is what this feels like for you. Something is dying, and it is the relationship that you wanted with this man. But it is something that needs to die.

You have an image of yourself of being strong, and now you know that the self-strength is no strength at all. Paul said, "when I am weak, then I am strong." It means that we must recognize that even our strength is a weakness if it means we depend on ourselves and not on Jesus. You are trying to quit this relationship in your own strength, but the bondage is greater than your strength.

God protected you today from going over to speak to this man. Satan is trying to pull you back in. This is a place of choice.

In your prayer time tonight be honest with God. Let Him hear you say that you do not have the strength in yourself and that you need Him to be in you and accomplish what you cannot. This is a place in you that has not been surrendered to God, and now is a good time to do it. Even confess to him that there is a big part of you that doesn't want to take that way of escape, and you need Him to help you to want the right thing.

Your friends are looking up to you, that is further evidence of the image of the "strong woman" that you have of yourself. They have been confirming that to you, and it makes you have to protect that image. When you come through on the other side of this, you will have a new testimony. It will not be about how strong you are, but about how strong God is.

I am praying for you Clayjar, that God will be very real and present with you this night, and lead you into the green pastures and beside the still waters.

ClayJar
Jan 6th 2008, 11:10 PM
Ok. I am struggling. Maybe it's because it's still early and 'raw'.. trying not to be too hard on myself.. Roadwarrior and karenoka: I know what you say is true: I have to move on, I can't wait for him, and yes I know it's an area that I'm trying to submit to God. If you Know something isn't right, why is it so hard to let it go.. Roadwarrior, how Long did it take for your friend to get over this? I'm doing Everything: praying, reminding myself with God's word, driving my Christian friends crazy but I'm glad I have them to make myself accountable to, just go through the motions of daily life (how Hard that is, when one doesn't have the heart or will to go through with it) and be faithful and grateful for life itself - the important thing is just to keep close to God and not allow Satan to get a foothold through my sorrow. But I am struggling. One day at a time and yet I feel like this is torture and I don't know how I am going to have the strength to continue like this.

Roadwarrior, it's true, it really is like separating flesh from flesh and this IS like dying - I am asking God to help me to Want to let him go emotionally, maybe this is a Process and takes time but in the meantime, I really feel like part of me is dying because all those thoughts of losing him or a future without him is really painful. I read about your friend finding a christian husband after her painful break-up and all I could think was: (and I know it sounds shortsighted and irrational to say this) but I don't Want to meet anyone else, I don't Want anyone else. I really don't think I can love anyone else. Apart from the fact that he is still too proud and afraid to admit that his strength and will for himself is not enough and that he needs rescuing, this guy really is my soulmate. I know I will probably laugh at myself for saying this in the future, and all of you can laugh with me if and when my future turns out differently and I can look back to this and see how God's hand was at work for the best. But right now, despite forcing myself to get up in the morning and life itself is hard enough (a worthy distraction I suppose), at the core of me is still this Pain - all I find myself Really thinking about is, God please please humble this man, let him see that He is not as good/strong as he thinks he is, please let him see that he needs you. I am keeping away from him simply because if he ever turns to God, I want him to discover Him on his own, independent of me.

RoadWarrior
Jan 6th 2008, 11:27 PM
Clayjar, you are doing just fine. :hug: It is normal to feel as you do, but you are doing what is necessary, getting up and going on with your life in spite of the pain.

Yes it hurts, it hurts really bad. :( If you had just had a major surgery, you would be in great pain, also. It is like that. Something big has been cut out of you. It feels like it is part of yourself. Maybe some of it is, but remember that Jesus said the branches which bear fruit are pruned, to yield more fruit. Pruning is painful, and we mourn for the loss, but later we see that He knows what is best.

Go and read Hebrews 12, about the chastening of sons, especially this verse:
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. NKJV

Is this a chastening? Perhaps it is. You knew it was an unsafe place, but you went there, and now you are dealing with the consequences. But I promise you that God is faithful and will not leave you as you walk through it.

His goal for you is not to punish you, but to grow you up to a greater measure of righteousness. Fix your eyes on that goal, and fill up your time. Keep busy. Put on some Christian music and move through your house, your life, with His words in your mind and your ears.

Remember also, that weeping endures for a night, but joy comes in the morning. :hug:

I don't know what God has for you, none of us do, only God knows. That's why all we can do it hug you and comfort you and encourage you. When you are able to move forward, ask Him, Lord where do you want me to put my foot next?

I am praying for you.

baxpack7
Jan 6th 2008, 11:51 PM
Perhaps this was a test of satan trying to ruin your personal testimony by tempting you with what seemed to be the "right" man. I truly believe that you are doing the correct thing by letting him go. If you didn't let him go, then he would think that"sure,it's OK for Christians to be with unbelievers"and perhaps never come to Christ.We are planters of the seed and I think that you have done your part by planting the seed that God has given you, but now its time to sit back and see if that seed takes root. You never know-perhaps that seed has fallen on fertile ground, or maybe it hasn't. Either way, you know that God's unfailing love will always be there for you, and I'm sure that all who read into this thread will agree with me on that. I will say a prayer of support for you and him as well, for my heart goes out to you :hug:

ClayJar
Jan 7th 2008, 10:55 PM
Thank you for the encouragement from all of you. Do you know throughout the day, I keep this page bookmarked - Work is a blessing that keeps me busy even though everything's a struggle - every time a yearning to contact him comes or that dying feeling comes, I read your words of encouragement on this thread. I have Hebrews 12 printed out and in front of me as I work. It's getting me through the day. Thank you again.

Sometimes I look around the busy-ness around me and I see the walking dead. I think of him, and the gulf that is between us - and I know I have to let go, God is telling me there is Nothing I Can Do about it - only He is in charge.

I have asked for forgiveness - I Have been selfish and rebellious, in pursuing the relationship in the first place, in yearning so much for him to be a Christian somehow thinking I can make right from this wrong relationship. I have gone my way and not God's. I want you to know that I Know God loves His children. I know He will not forsake me as I struggle to surrender my heartache and my will to Him.

I have been listening to Christian music - because everything on the radio, especially when I'm feeling this way, is Not helpful. Anyone heard of Superchick's Beauty From Pain? Or Jars of Clay's Love of a Jealous Kind?

Thank you most especially for your prayers - you have no idea how much comfort that brings me. I pray that God blesses you, and keep you safe in His embrace always.

RoadWarrior
Jan 8th 2008, 12:09 AM
Bless you Clayjar! You are doing great. How sweet it is to see the courage and determination in your post, to keep going, and to follow Jesus.

You continue to be in my prayers.

ClayJar
Jan 8th 2008, 11:55 AM
I can't help my stupid brain and my stupid heart. I'm just having an awful moment and not caring how miserable and sinful I sound, and finding refuge on this forum. Please, would the night of weeping just pass and morning come -

What do you do, these irrational moments when you just want to give up, when the pain just feels so unbearable you're tempted to trade in the future, when you're tired of fighting your sinful nature, when you want something so badly that you're so so tempted to ignore the fear of disobeying and rebelling against God, when you're So Tired you just want to throw in the towel and Want to Believe that being with a nonChristian Can't be That bad, when you want to ignore thoughts of the future, when you're tortured by thoughts that he has moved on or is with someone else, and that hurts more than Anything else, because it means you're no longer significant or maybe were never significant to begin with... and that makes you ache with the pain inside that never seems to subside.

I think of the future, imagining what God has in store - it may be a really God-fearing man, and I am able to live to serve God. Believe it or not, although it brings great peace to know that God IS ultimately in charge of my life, I still cry in sadness because that future isn't THIS guy. What do you do when the pruning doesn't feel real, when you rather not want to be pruned. AM I being pruned? A part of me, like a spoiled little child, says, "God you don't understand.. I CAN'T take this!!"

I know He'd rather me obey Him (even though right now I'm doing it kicking and screaming).. The only reason why I'm not right now picking up the phone or going to his place is because it's crazy at this hour, because of my pride (he will think So little of me and of Christianity), but most of all, because I'm just too Afraid of Really disobeying God - ie, literally go back to the guy. Fear of God. God forgive me for being so weak and distrustful of you.. but right now, I don't have faith.

We are so pathetic, why DOES God love us. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom? - Maybe, if wisdom means this desperate at-the-moment prevention from doing real harm when alllll your attempts of rationalising to try and stay strong in your head are going Nowhere.

I swear, if I get through this cold turkey phase and my rehab is successful (well, this guy IS a drug), it would be solely on God's grace and strength, nothing of my own doing.

I know all this, yet I am having these miserable painful moments.
So despondent, so inconsolable, yet so in need of God.

RoadWarrior
Jan 8th 2008, 04:06 PM
:hug: Clayjar, it's ok. :hug:
It is normal to feel this way. :hug:
I am praying for you. :hug:

Keep crying out to God. Tell him how you feel, that you want to obey Him, but it is hard.

In the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus said this:
Mt 26:38-39
38 Then He said to [the disciples], "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch with Me."
39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will."
NKJV

It is because of this scripture that I know for a fact, Jesus Himself understands how you are feeling.

The disciples fell asleep and Jesus prayed alone. You feel alone. We are out here in cyberspace and can't sit by you and hug you. But some of us are weeping with you. We know how you feel because we have also been there. At this point it is not a comfort to you that we say it will pass. At this point, you just need to keep calling on Jesus, and just keep walking.

:hug::hug::hug:

karenoka27
Jan 9th 2008, 03:36 AM
I'm glad you are able to come here and share how you feel. I'm so thankful for the support you are receiving. This is a tough time and we are keeping you in prayer. I am praying that you grow stronger with every day.:hug:

protea
Jan 9th 2008, 12:24 PM
I'm glad you are able to come here and share how you feel. I'm so thankful for the support you are receiving. This is a tough time and we are keeping you in prayer. I am praying that you grow stronger with every day.:hug:

Hallo Clayjar

Thank you for your testimony .I am going to print your initial letter out and 'accidentally' leave it on my 2nd daughter's bedside table.

I am praying for you. Jesus is such a gentleman that He would not force you into doing something which you do not CHOOSE to do . And is'nt life about choices?!?!?

Jesus is feeling your sorrow but is on the other hand so proud of you for choosing Him!

In a similar situation , I sat in church about 28 years ago and prayed: Lord, do you know how difficult it is to give someone up whom you love so much? And the Lord replied : Yes , I know,I have seen my SON die on the cross... That same Jesus is still my Anchor and wants to be your's too. I am blissfully happilly married to a steadfast 'Peter' for 25 years and it just gets more wonderful. Keep faith, your 'Peter' is just around the corner! Hold onto Jesus, our Saviour who holds you in the hollow of His hand , who dries your tears and comforts you like nobody else!

ClayJar
Jan 14th 2008, 11:02 PM
Protea: How are you and your 2nd daughter? I'm glad sharing my battle is helping others.
Roadwarrior, karenoka, baxpack7 - thank you for your prayers and encouragement.
Reading your posts again and again throughout the day helps so much where you work in an environment with no Christians and each day is a hard hard struggle.

Update of my pathetic saga. I couldn't stand the no-contact any more. (I know, I know, I shouldn't have. I am weak, I just miss him.) I emailed him after re-reading a letter he once wrote to me, and told him my (Christian) views on his view of life etc - I recognise now that eventually such exchanges will lead to him defending his position and because the message IS personally confronting, I'll become the messenger that the message-receiver will eventually hate. He's definitely unrepentant in his humanist views. In my last email, I suggested we exchange books to read (I want to give him Mere Christianity). His reply indicated that not only is he not promising to read it, it sounds like he's making it clear that he won't. That's ok, because even if he were to read it now he probably wouldn't be open to it. I will still mail it to him though, because at least he has it in his possession, and perhaps he will read it one day when he is more open.

In his email, he also said that he is still suffering, and not able to maintain a level of friendship with me for a while, that he's still too vulnerable to reveal himself to me or anyone else, at least for now... I was so sad when I read that. Not that it really matters, but I'm a girl and can't help analyzing this. I thought at first he's saying he's not over me, which gave me hope. But I thought more about it and realised, there's a distinction between 'not over me' and 'just doing the 'wounded' thing'. As in, he's just telling me that he's still hurting. But he IS over me in the sense that he's definitely not expecting anything from me anymore and wants to move on :( - that made me cry (he Will get over me eventually). I was really really tempted to reply to him: "I miss you. I want you back! I wish you could understand!" - but I didn't. What would be the point right?

He's in pain and wants to move on because he wants to avoid more pain. He will never know or understand that for me, avoiding My pain of missing him would be to Be with him! In my struggle to give my will (and him) over to God, I'm actually going Against the human tendency of avoiding pain. I wish he knew that! :( Then again, Jesus would say, How I wish they knew what I went through for them! Thing is, I Am actually avoiding True Pain aren't I? (ie, the True Pain of eternal hell). I know God loves us and I'm just too afraid to openly defy God! I'm a real coward.


Is this resolved? Well actually, from the point of view that my will appears frustrated by circumstance (or God's will), there was really nothing To resolve in the first place - you're right Roadwarrior, I shouldn't have gone where God said not to go in the first place... so Nothing's actually changed even from the start! I just really don't want to do this anymore. If not for the sheer fear of deliberate disobedience to God, I would really take the risk.. I lay awake thinking last night, trying to imagine what it would be like if I really did decide to go out with him (I'm not over him yet :( )... and I realised that he'll Never understand the Extent of the sacrifice I'd be making (of disobeying/walking away from God) because he's not a believer.. to him, there is not much that I'm really sacrificing in order to be with him (I'd just be being truly loving, of being true to my self and to my feelings towards him!). Could I live with that - the fact that he'll never be able to fully appreciate the extent of the sacrifice? Would I eventually get frustrated with him and then resentful of him whenever he fails to live up to the 'cost' of my sacrifice? (That's why unyoked marriages are HARD?) But then, maybe that IS the price you pay if you loved someone.. and wouldn't you sacrifice if you really loved someone? Do I love him that much to make that sacrifice?? So then it really is the question isn't it, of: who do I love more - God or him?

God, if I'm too afraid to leave you, yet it is hard to want this to die! Can you promise me that you will look after him? I know you don't owe me any promises, you've already given me the ultimate gift of love and life, but I am struggling to let go of the one thing I want so badly. Why can't the Holy Spirit just open his eyes? He is a better man than any of the christian guys I know, Why is his heart so hardenend towards you? You are chastising me for my disobedience, you are teaching me a lesson that I can't always get what I want. I am trying to choose you over him every moment but it's hard and I need your help! I just miss him so badly, God.

RoadWarrior
Jan 14th 2008, 11:51 PM
Clayjar, good to hear from you, but sorry that you are still struggling and suffering. I know how hard it is.

I feel I should share with you something about me. I married my non-believer husband during a time when I was not walking with the Lord. He is a good man, not abusive or alcoholic or anything awful, but kind, respectable and has many good qualities. So it didn't turn out to be a horrible mistake as some have experienced. However, I did go into the relationship/marriage with my eyes open to a certain extent. I realized that if I wanted this man I had to accept him as he was/is. I could not go in expecting to change him. This is something I hear in you, you want to change this man. It won't happen, believe me. He is what he is.

What is the downside of being married to a good, kind, respectable man with many good qualities? There is a lot of spiritual loneliness! We live separate lives in that respect. I go to church and other spiritual functions alone. I read the Bible alone, I pray alone. People at church always want to know why my husband doesn't come to church with me, and they always want to pray for him. So that makes me withdraw from them, and further isolates me. It is a lonely life.

We do not have children together, we met and married as mature adults (I have children from a previous marriage) but if you have children with a non-believer it really complicates how you raise the children.

You will do what you want to do, but I wanted you to know that life with an unbeliever can be a very lonely life. Also, I always feel that there could have been a work for the Lord I could have done, but not as an unequally yoked woman. Keep thinking about it. I know that you want to do the right thing.

I continue to pray for you, for wisdom and knowledge of God's plan for your life.

ClayJar
Jan 15th 2008, 12:35 AM
Thank you.
I think I needed to read that.

I am scared, Roadwarrior.

"Also, I always feel that there could have been a work for the Lord I could have done, but not as an unequally yoked woman."
--> I have this feeling already. I know that what I would do with my life if I yoked myself with this man will be Very different to what I would be able to do for God if I obeyed God.

I am scared that God will give me a future I won't like, despite my obedience to him. eg a man who loves God more than anything else, we serve in church day by day year by year, he is faithful and loving and prioritises my relationship with God - but I don't feel for him the way I feel for this man. Or I am single and can serve God totally - which I am honestly happy to be... UNTIL now that I've met this man and the thought of him ever settling down with Someone Else whilst I still love him now makes the thought of being alone without him really painful.

I miss him. And am plagued with irrational fears, that sadly, feel very real.
I even thought about convincing myself that all fears can be blocked out, even tried to convince myself that heaven/hell/his salvation/my salvation - an unnecessary burden- just want to ignore it ALL.

That scared me.

evrgreenjhawk
Jan 15th 2008, 02:52 AM
Hello ClayJar,
I am a bit hesitant in posting a reply, but wound up here through a link from another forum and found your post and know that I have read each and every word since I can currently relate to so many of your sufferings.
I can most definitely agree with Roadwarrior in the fact that you should not try to change him into what you expect him to be. I think this gives reason for resistance along with eventual resentment. Others have told you to move on and let go and I can not argue with that advice either, only you can know that for sure through your relationship with God. I do feel that the longing I have, which have brought on the exact same feelings you have so vividly and accurately described, is a leading for me to continue, repair, rebuild my relationship which is now on the mend, but still in a state of disarray.
My relationship spans 10yrs and a 9 year old daughter, and so no doubt has attributes and considerations that yours may not.
My hesitation comes from the fact that I was a non practicing/unknowing believer of God and Christ and my wife solid in her faith and Christianity.
I decided to post to let you know I feel you and also pray for you to find peace and the Lord and Holy Spirit guide and comfort you. I know the few times I have found comfort when feeling so low, was by reading. Mainly reading my bible and being led as to where to dive in. I also know how hard it can be to pass even a few minutes. I know it has helped me to read of others troubles and or thoughts on any matters sometimes and helps take the focus off of the pain if only for a short while so you can catch your breath and endure another day.
I have seen where you have mentioned that being with an unbeliever is a sin and where others have agreed. I personally do not feel that is the case. I don't consider myself as having ever been a "non-believer" however I was certainly as much a prideful self serving sinner as there may have been who was not incarcerated. I do feel that it was the love of my wife and my love for her that God reached me and gave me the desire to seek Him and ask for a change in my heart.
I can imagine how low you have felt, more than imagine I can very much relate as I have been and still feel so close to that same point. If you are questioning your relationship with God then I can very well believe that this is a trial for you and a chance to regain or to mature in your faith. I know it seems nearly impossible to put anything before the love you feel for this guy, but God has you and always will. Keep Him first always for he fills your hearts desires. Pray that he enlightens you to His will and that you not be led by your own desires but that which will please Him. I believe you can trust your feelings if your true desire is to please God first.
Other help I have found are some daily verses and devotionals that I check daily, some online. I also have quiet time each morning, 30 minutes or so if possible. Quiet as in no TV, no Radio no stove to watch or clothes to fold just quiet, peaceful, listening. During these times I have experience what I can only call Joyful Sorrow, which I am not linguistic enough to even begin to describe, but can leave me enlightened, relieved, revived, strengthened, hopeful...
Sorry if this seems a bit rambling but I do hope you have caught at least one breath, and found rest if only for a minute.

RoadWarrior
Jan 15th 2008, 03:22 AM
Thank you.
I think I needed to read that.

I am scared, Roadwarrior.

"Also, I always feel that there could have been a work for the Lord I could have done, but not as an unequally yoked woman."
--> I have this feeling already. I know that what I would do with my life if I yoked myself with this man will be Very different to what I would be able to do for God if I obeyed God.

I am scared that God will give me a future I won't like, despite my obedience to him. eg a man who loves God more than anything else, we serve in church day by day year by year, he is faithful and loving and prioritises my relationship with God - but I don't feel for him the way I feel for this man. Or I am single and can serve God totally - which I am honestly happy to be... UNTIL now that I've met this man and the thought of him ever settling down with Someone Else whilst I still love him now makes the thought of being alone without him really painful.

I miss him. And am plagued with irrational fears, that sadly, feel very real.
I even thought about convincing myself that all fears can be blocked out, even tried to convince myself that heaven/hell/his salvation/my salvation - an unnecessary burden- just want to ignore it ALL.

That scared me.

Clayjar, I'll tell you another bit about me. I have a long story, with lots of "little stories" embedded, so there are a lot of little testimonies inside my big one. One is about a guy I was infatuated with, and the Lord actually spoke to me in an "audible" voice, at least it felt that way to me. I was asleep and heard the words, and it woke me up. These were the words. "This man is not your husband."

I knew it was God, I knew I was in the wrong place doing the wrong thing, but I was so infatuated, so addicted, that I could not let go. I struggled with it for months. I even became a "stalker" of this man, I would call him and when he answered I would hang up. It was horrible.

That was a long time ago, now. I finally moved past it, I can't even remember now how I managed to do so. I am so grateful that I did. I am so grateful that the Lord didn't abandon me to that.

You are blessed to have other Christians praying for you and encouraging you. I was alone, I was isolated, I struggled through that alone and had no one to confide in. I was not active in church, and I didn't have a group of people like this to talk to.

I think that life is very hard in many ways, it is a journey that takes us through rough places.

I should tell you, that God still has work for me to do. It is just different from what it could have been. But with repentance and returning to Him, I have been restored into full relationship with Him, and that is the most important thing. You see, I have that story to tell you, and maybe it will be helpful.

Are you keeping a journal? I encourage you to do so. And make sure that you write down the small victories you have as you go along. You will have small victories. Maybe when you are on the other side of this, you will be able to say, "This is how the Lord brought me through it," and it will become a testimony with which you will be able to help someone else, somewhere further on.

You are fascinated, infatuated, and maybe even truly in love with this man. I know that it is hard to let go. It is hard to move on. Like the advice people give to alcoholics, you have to take it one day at a time. Each day that you get through without relapsing is a victory. A relapse is not going back to day one, but it does mean picking yourself up again, and going on from where you are. You will get stronger as time goes by.

You can trust God, what He has for you is much better than what the world (or satan) will offer you. But He does not promise that it will be easy. What He does promise is that He will never leave you nor forsake you.

protea
Jan 15th 2008, 01:44 PM
Protea: How are you and your 2nd daughter? I'm glad sharing my battle is helping others.

Roadwarrior, karenoka, baxpack7 - thank you for your prayers and encouragement.
Reading your posts again and again throughout the day helps so much where you work in an environment with no Christians and each day is a hard hard struggle.


Update of my pathetic saga. I couldn't stand the no-contact any more. (I know, I know, I shouldn't have. I am weak, I just miss him.) I emailed him after re-reading a letter he once wrote to me, and told him my (Christian) views on his view of life etc - I recognise now that eventually such exchanges will lead to him defending his position and because the message IS personally confronting, I'll become the messenger that the message-receiver will eventually hate. He's definitely unrepentant in his humanist views. In my last email, I suggested we exchange books to read (I want to give him Mere Christianity). His reply indicated that not only is he not promising to read it, it sounds like he's making it clear that he won't. That's ok, because even if he were to read it now he probably wouldn't be open to it. I will still mail it to him though, because at least he has it in his possession, and perhaps he will read it one day when he is more open.


In his email, he also said that he is still suffering, and not able to maintain a level of friendship with me for a while, that he's still too vulnerable to reveal himself to me or anyone else, at least for now... I was so sad when I read that. Not that it really matters, but I'm a girl and can't help analyzing this. I thought at first he's saying he's not over me, which gave me hope. But I thought more about it and realised, there's a distinction between 'not over me' and 'just doing the 'wounded' thing'. As in, he's just telling me that he's still hurting. But he IS over me in the sense that he's definitely not expecting anything from me anymore and wants to move on :( - that made me cry (he Will get over me eventually). I was really really tempted to reply to him: "I miss you. I want you back! I wish you could understand!" - but I didn't. What would be the point right?


He's in pain and wants to move on because he wants to avoid more pain. He will never know or understand that for me, avoiding My pain of missing him would be to Be with him! In my struggle to give my will (and him) over to God, I'm actually going Against the human tendency of avoiding pain. I wish he knew that! :( Then again, Jesus would say, How I wish they knew what I went through for them! Thing is, I Am actually avoiding True Pain aren't I? (ie, the True Pain of eternal hell). I know God loves us and I'm just too afraid to openly defy God! I'm a real coward.



Is this resolved? Well actually, from the point of view that my will appears frustrated by circumstance (or God's will), there was really nothing To resolve in the first place - you're right Roadwarrior, I shouldn't have gone where God said not to go in the first place... so Nothing's actually changed even from the start! I just really don't want to do this anymore. If not for the sheer fear of deliberate disobedience to God, I would really take the risk.. I lay awake thinking last night, trying to imagine what it would be like if I really did decide to go out with him (I'm not over him yet :( )... and I realised that he'll Never understand the Extent of the sacrifice I'd be making (of disobeying/walking away from God) because he's not a believer.. to him, there is not much that I'm really sacrificing in order to be with him (I'd just be being truly loving, of being true to my self and to my feelings towards him!). Could I live with that - the fact that he'll never be able to fully appreciate the extent of the sacrifice? Would I eventually get frustrated with him and then resentful of him whenever he fails to live up to the 'cost' of my sacrifice? (That's why unyoked marriages are HARD?) But then, maybe that IS the price you pay if you loved someone.. and wouldn't you sacrifice if you really loved someone? Do I love him that much to make that sacrifice?? So then it really is the question isn't it, of: who do I love more - God or him?



God, if I'm too afraid to leave you, yet it is hard to want this to die! Can you promise me that you will look after him? I know you don't owe me any promises, you've already given me the ultimate gift of love and life, but I am struggling to let go of the one thing I want so badly. Why can't the Holy Spirit just open his eyes? He is a better man than any of the christian guys I know, Why is his heart so hardenend towards you? You are chastising me for my disobedience, you are teaching me a lesson that I can't always get what I want. I am trying to choose you over him every moment but it's hard and I need your help! I just miss him so badly, God.



Hallo Clayjar

My sister once went to a christian psyciatrist to help het with a 'mother-in-law /daugher-in-law 'relationship. Her mother in law manipulated everyone with whom she came into contact and was busy breaking up ALL relationships even between herself and her grandchildren. The last piece of help the pcyciatrist gave her was the following: He said:

Take a white handkerchief and place a photo of your mother -in-law in the middle and fold it like a stork baby with the 4 corners together. Lift it up towards heaven and say : Lord , this burden is too heavy for me to carry but I know You can and will .AND LORD, I NEVER WANT THAT PACKAGE BACK because I know the situation is in the BEST of hands and that you will solve the problem!

Now you do the same with your situation. May I help you by praying for you?

Dear Lord Jesus ,Clayjar and I are giving this heavy burden to you. You know the extent of her grief. You know that she wants to be obedient to you above everything.Lord, therefor we CHOOSE to let go of this burden and KNOW that You will fix this situation YOUR way and in Your time.She never wants to handle this turmoil in her emotions ever again because 'we can receive healing because of YOUR stripes on the Cross of Calvary!' We speak life and know that You will comfort her in the days to come. Help her to believe that You have a hand picked ,son of God as her future husband !! We pray this in the Name of Jesus Christ, our Saviour! Amen.

All my love
protea

ClayJar
Jan 19th 2008, 12:41 PM
Hi all

Thought all of you would like to know what has happened in the last few days. For anyone with the patience to trawl through this thread and gone through the mental and emotional struggle that I've shared here (sorry to put everyone through the misery!), you would know that I have been very tempted to give in and go back. A friend said to me earlier this week, "You can't possibly expect God's grace or forgiveness if you so blatantly reject Him and turn your back on Him.. you'd be doing the same thing that this nonchristian guy has done. And how could you possibly help him see the saving light of Christianity when you don't stick to and LIVE what you've professed to be your faith?!" (My friend said all this in love but I tell you, I was MAD at him when he said this to me.)

I wish I could say that I kept away because I Wanted to obey God.. But I am weak, only God is strong: The only thing that kept me from picking up the phone and asking the guy for another chance was the fear of knowing that what I'd be doing was just plain disobedience to God! I believe it is all the prayers of my Christian sisters and brothers (including all of you in cyberspace!) that God Answered, through a slightly bizarre twist of events, God's hand intervened again:

During the week, I bumped into him - very unintentionally, and I was completely caught offguard. For so long, I'd been struggling within myself about whether I could go on like this and just leaving the relatiionship behind. He asked how I am, we chatted a bit, the whole thing felt strange... and sad.

Over 3 days we met up and just talked - and he asked if I had Ever loved him, he said he wasn't a Christian but he was still 'spiritual' and believed that loving others instead of loving the self was the most important thing in life (not enough!!), that you could never have 'guarantees' about life and love ('even if you married a Christian guy'), that I never really gave him the chance to show how much he could care and love me, he had missed talking to me (I did as well), he had read the books I gave him and went to church once (I didn't know) but he just Can't believe - God is just a concept, he can't feel His reality, the whole heaven/hell, life after death, urgency of salvation: are not Facts to him, it's all 'belief' that he can't accept, and he couldn't just 'pretend' to 'be' a Christian just so I'd be with him because it's hypocritical when it's something that isn't real to him, he thinks I'm afraid of commitment, that I need God's guarantee of a Christian guy before I'd get into a relationship..... etc etc

I realised that as we were sharing each others' viewpoints on life, I really felt that I could do No More. He said I had trust issues, that life had no guarantees, that life is already hard enough to deal with without having to 'deal' with salvation and giving his life over to Christ. He just can't 'get' it. He believes an Ultimate being is out there but it's not something that is personal. When he asked how do you Know God is real? All I could say was I just Know that I know, that life on this planet didn't make sense otherwise if He wasn't Real - and I realised that to him, I may just as well be trying to persuade him that the Tooth Fairy was real. I understood all that he was saying, and I think he understood me to some extent - but he didn't 'understand' either: The Holy Spirit has to be working in him, for I am not the one to 'convert' him.

He said, if you truly love someone, you don't abandon them just because they're not a Christian. Love is a verb, if you loved me you would stay with me, help and support me, be here with me and for me. He shared with me his dreams, his goals and his battles, all I could answer was that I'd pray about the future (because to me, my life is the Lord's and my only assurance and guidance is from Him - something that he doesn't understand).

And here God intervened:
As I listened to him talk, I realised that I am ABLE to fully, self-sacrificially and lovingly support this guy. But God made me realise that I Could Not:
Because I didn't know if the choices and the things that he wants and is striving for (noble as they are) are God's Will - How could I possibly submit to him and be his helper if I had no idea if what he wants/is living for, is something that he knows is what God wants for him to do? I realised that I would be fighting the battles that life (and Satan) will dish out, on my own, that I would be fighting for both our salvation and I knew I wouldn't be strong enough, if the one I'm fighting with (and Following!) was not being guided by God.

So last night, I told him the harsh truths I'd been frightened of saying (and maybe of admitting to myself as well): "I recognise that I can't Make you see what I see. I accept that God has been telling me that this is something out of my hands. I've been trying to 'convert' you and it is both selfish and self-defeating. God IS more important to me - I can only trust a man who loves God more than anything, who wants to serve Him with his life, because such a man would be stronger than one who is just relying on himself. If you perceive this as a 'trust issue', maybe it Is... because I trust nothing else but God. I miss you, and thinking of you with someone else is painful, but I know it can't work. But I will Always be praying for you - I have been and I'll continue to."

He didn't get angry, which I was afraid he would. We were sitting in his car outside my house, he didn't cry but his eyes were wet. As he drove off, I just stood there. God didn't forsake me, He had been guiding me. I told Him I was so so sorry that I'd ever doubted Him when I desperately wanted to disobey him. I FINALLY felt God's peace. If someone were to tell me the future and tell me that he will never be a Christian and happily marries someone else, it would probably still pain me and make me really sad... But there is more pain and fear in the thought of submitting to a husband who has not submitted HIS life to God and God's will - and I know that it was God who enabled me to see this. I don't know if this guy will ever be saved, but I know that God loves him more than I ever could, and I KNEW I'd finally let him go. Maybe he'll come back, maybe he won't, but it doesn't matter and for now, God is all that matters. And He wants you and I to know that that is really all He desires from us - that we Love Him, God just wants to be loved! More than anything else in the world, more than anyONE in this world! And the most amazing thing is, in the process, that is the most loving thing we can do for Him, for the people we love, for ourselves - and that in itself is our reward that we so don't deserve! How amazing and beautiful is God!

For everyone that prayed for me, thank you. I know God will bless you in your faithfulness and love. For everyone who reads my story here, please keep praying for me, and I hope reading this whole thread will help you too.

Maybe I'll continue to post here, but if I don't, know that I will always be thankful for the support from this forum. Roadwarrior, this very thread Has been my prayer journal :)

God's love to all
Clayjar

protea
Jan 19th 2008, 01:47 PM
Hi all

Thought all of you would like to know what has happened in the last few days. For anyone with the patience to trawl through this thread and gone through the mental and emotional struggle that I've shared here (sorry to put everyone through the misery!), you would know that I have been very tempted to give in and go back. A friend said to me earlier this week, "You can't possibly expect God's grace or forgiveness if you so blatantly reject Him and turn your back on Him.. you'd be doing the same thing that this nonchristian guy has done. And how could you possibly help him see the saving light of Christianity when you don't stick to and LIVE what you've professed to be your faith?!" (My friend said all this in love but I tell you, I was MAD at him when he said this to me.)

I wish I could say that I kept away because I Wanted to obey God.. But I am weak, only God is strong: The only thing that kept me from picking up the phone and asking the guy for another chance was the fear of knowing that what I'd be doing was just plain disobedience to God! I believe it is all the prayers of my Christian sisters and brothers (including all of you in cyberspace!) that God Answered, through a slightly bizarre twist of events, God's hand intervened again:

During the week, I bumped into him - very unintentionally, and I was completely caught offguard. For so long, I'd been struggling within myself about whether I could go on like this and just leaving the relatiionship behind. He asked how I am, we chatted a bit, the whole thing felt strange... and sad.

Over 3 days we met up and just talked - and he asked if I had Ever loved him, he said he wasn't a Christian but he was still 'spiritual' and believed that loving others instead of loving the self was the most important thing in life (not enough!!), that you could never have 'guarantees' about life and love ('even if you married a Christian guy'), that I never really gave him the chance to show how much he could care and love me, he had missed talking to me (I did as well), he had read the books I gave him and went to church once (I didn't know) but he just Can't believe - God is just a concept, he can't feel His reality, the whole heaven/hell, life after death, urgency of salvation: are not Facts to him, it's all 'belief' that he can't accept, and he couldn't just 'pretend' to 'be' a Christian just so I'd be with him because it's hypocritical when it's something that isn't real to him, he thinks I'm afraid of commitment, that I need God's guarantee of a Christian guy before I'd get into a relationship..... etc etc

I realised that as we were sharing each others' viewpoints on life, I really felt that I could do No More. He said I had trust issues, that life had no guarantees, that life is already hard enough to deal with without having to 'deal' with salvation and giving his life over to Christ. He just can't 'get' it. He believes an Ultimate being is out there but it's not something that is personal. When he asked how do you Know God is real? All I could say was I just Know that I know, that life on this planet didn't make sense otherwise if He wasn't Real - and I realised that to him, I may just as well be trying to persuade him that the Tooth Fairy was real. I understood all that he was saying, and I think he understood me to some extent - but he didn't 'understand' either: The Holy Spirit has to be working in him, for I am not the one to 'convert' him.

He said, if you truly love someone, you don't abandon them just because they're not a Christian. Love is a verb, if you loved me you would stay with me, help and support me, be here with me and for me. He shared with me his dreams, his goals and his battles, all I could answer was that I'd pray about the future (because to me, my life is the Lord's and my only assurance and guidance is from Him - something that he doesn't understand).

And here God intervened:
As I listened to him talk, I realised that I am ABLE to fully, self-sacrificially and lovingly support this guy. But God made me realise that I Could Not:
Because I didn't know if the choices and the things that he wants and is striving for (noble as they are) are God's Will - How could I possibly submit to him and be his helper if I had no idea if what he wants/is living for, is something that he knows is what God wants for him to do? I realised that I would be fighting the battles that life (and Satan) will dish out, on my own, that I would be fighting for both our salvation and I knew I wouldn't be strong enough, if the one I'm fighting with (and Following!) was not being guided by God.

So last night, I told him the harsh truths I'd been frightened of saying (and maybe of admitting to myself as well): "I recognise that I can't Make you see what I see. I accept that God has been telling me that this is something out of my hands. I've been trying to 'convert' you and it is both selfish and self-defeating. God IS more important to me - I can only trust a man who loves God more than anything, who wants to serve Him with his life, because such a man would be stronger than one who is just relying on himself. If you perceive this as a 'trust issue', maybe it Is... because I trust nothing else but God. I miss you, and thinking of you with someone else is painful, but I know it can't work. But I will Always be praying for you - I have been and I'll continue to."

He didn't get angry, which I was afraid he would. We were sitting in his car outside my house, he didn't cry but his eyes were wet. As he drove off, I just stood there. God didn't forsake me, He had been guiding me. I told Him I was so so sorry that I'd ever doubted Him when I desperately wanted to disobey him. I FINALLY felt God's peace. If someone were to tell me the future and tell me that he will never be a Christian and happily marries someone else, it would probably still pain me and make me really sad... But there is more pain and fear in the thought of submitting to a husband who has not submitted HIS life to God and God's will - and I know that it was God who enabled me to see this. I don't know if this guy will ever be saved, but I know that God loves him more than I ever could, and I KNEW I'd finally let him go. Maybe he'll come back, maybe he won't, but it doesn't matter and for now, God is all that matters. And He wants you and I to know that that is really all He desires from us - that we Love Him, God just wants to be loved! More than anything else in the world, more than anyONE in this world! And the most amazing thing is, in the process, that is the most loving thing we can do for Him, for the people we love, for ourselves - and that in itself is our reward that we so don't deserve! How amazing and beautiful is God!

For everyone that prayed for me, thank you. I know God will bless you in your faithfulness and love. For everyone who reads my story here, please keep praying for me, and I hope reading this whole thread will help you too.

Maybe I'll continue to post here, but if I don't, know that I will always be thankful for the support from this forum. Roadwarrior, this very thread Has been my prayer journal :)

God's love to all
Clayjar


Hi Clayjar,

We sure were wondering what has become of you! Meanwhile you were making maybe one of the most difficult choices in your life! To simplify the whole scenario: You chose God and to obey Him alone! And I'm sure God's blessing will not stay out of it. In councelling you not have a quick fix like 40 THINGS TO DO or 40 THINGS NOT TO DO. In each of those catagories you just have 1 item e.g. :

THINGS TO DO THINGS NOT TO DO

Hold onto Jesus! Do not pull your hand out of Jesus'

It is really as simple as that. We will still be praying for you and for that 'man of God' to appear on your doorstep!

All our love

Protea

RoadWarrior
Jan 19th 2008, 04:59 PM
Hi all

Thought all of you would like to know what has happened in the last few days. ....
<snip>
Maybe I'll continue to post here, but if I don't, know that I will always be thankful for the support from this forum. Roadwarrior, this very thread Has been my prayer journal :)

God's love to all
Clayjar

Hi ClayJar,

It's so good to hear from you! :kiss:

You have been in my thoughts and prayers throughout the days. I had a sweet peace about you, though, not an agonizing tearful kind of praying, but a knowledge that the Lord was at work and I had no idea what He might be doing! I continually stand in amazement at His ways, which are past finding out as the scripture says. I frequently feel that I only stand and watch, but somehow it matters to Him, that His children are standing and watching. :hug:

CJ, it has been an awesome privilege to walk through this with you. Thank you so much for coming here and posting, sharing your story with its pain and its victory. You have done well.

Please feel free to pop back anytime. Anytime you need to "prayer journal" out loud, we'll be here to pray with you!

:pp

baxpack7
Jan 19th 2008, 07:31 PM
Hi ClayJar,

It's so good to hear from you! :kiss:

You have been in my thoughts and prayers throughout the days. I had a sweet peace about you, though, not an agonizing tearful kind of praying, but a knowledge that the Lord was at work and I had no idea what He might be doing! I continually stand in amazement at His ways, which are past finding out as the scripture says. I frequently feel that I only stand and watch, but somehow it matters to Him, that His children are standing and watching. :hug:

CJ, it has been an awesome privilege to walk through this with you. Thank you so much for coming here and posting, sharing your story with its pain and its victory. You have done well.

Please feel free to pop back anytime. Anytime you need to "prayer journal" out loud, we'll be here to pray with you!

:ppIsn't God amazing, awesome and wonderful(along with loving)? I had the same feeling of concern, but at the same time, a peace came about me as I prayed about your situation. I know that now that you have given yourself to God, your blessings WILL be increasing til' you can't contain them. I will continue to pray with and for you, but it will be more of a prayer of thanks for prayers answered rather than prayers of concern. May the Lord bless you and keep you as you continue to seek His good and perfect will:):D:pp:pp:hug::spin:

karenoka27
Jan 19th 2008, 08:20 PM
:hug: What a beautiful testimony to God's faithfulness. This man said that you had trust issues..but you proved to the Lord that Your trust is with Him. May He bless you abundantly for living according to His Word even when it was most difficult. again....:hug:

RoadWarrior
Jan 19th 2008, 08:30 PM
:hug: What a beautiful testimony to God's faithfulness. This man said that you had trust issues..but you proved to the Lord that Your trust is with Him. May He bless you abundantly for living according to His Word even when it was most difficult. again....:hug:

This reminds me of something that zoomed through my mind while I was reading CJ's post.

The man says that CJ has trust issues, because she doesn't trust him to have her best interests at heart, but we all know now that she does trust God. I think the man is the one with a trust issue - he is unwilling to trust in God.

ClayJar
Jan 20th 2008, 05:51 AM
HUGS TO ALL
Unbelievable. I just read your responses - they have left me in tears! I have never met any of you but if I could, I would hug each of you. I didn't realise how my burden has been carried in some way by so many, ultimately by God who more unbelievably, ASKS for our burdens.

I read the thread again 'How long have you been with an unsaved partner' - which many of you have posted to. It shook me again to the reality of the bittersweet AGONY that Will happen when you have to live each day knowing that the person you love most is not saved. I again prayed for each of you. I would never have known such pain if I had not had this relationship. What was just intellectual knowledge about God's command to Not Go There really is heart knowledge now. I KNOW I've done the right thing. Actually, correction: God enabled me to do the right thing. God knows I was So close So many times to run back to the man and ignore God's commands. But God truly took over and led me through it. I am so grateful to Him.

Please continue praying. Even though I know I have done the right thing, and I've vowed never to let my heart go astray from Him again, I still don't know what to do next. I don't know if it's wise to keep in contact with him, what to do if he calls me (hang up?), if he misses me and wants to 'talk' again (decline?), he wanted to meet my parents and I'm tempted to let him because my mother has a personal testimony that is so powerful, I think it would really move him, so I'm tempted to let them meet but have no idea if God would want me to do this? Or just forget about Any contact full-stop, cruel and immatured as it may sound.

Actually, now writing this all out, I have a feeling God just wants me to abandon everything? I would probably still say hello if I ever see him on the streets again, but I will keep walking on. It would be so unnatural and yet I'm scared I'll go back again (sounds silly but I think it's also Wisdom now.. God did say to Flee right). I don't know if it's possible to be friends, something tells that it's not. I can't hope for him to understand.

Although God is slowly taking the acute agony away, I still feel a bit sorrowful to have left him - because I know that from his view, all he sees is that I have abandoned him, that I'm using this narrow-minded religious excuse to avoid the hardships of being in a relationship in which I can't trust his 'love' for me. (Despite all my attempts to try and make him understand that that's not the case.) On his views of life, it's as if he sees everything really clearly... from a 2-dimensional point of view - that loving others is the most important (he loves Jesus' command to Love your neighbour as yourself). But to me there's something wrong with it all, he's missing the 3rd dimension - God's point of view. I've come up with an illustration: he seems to be showing me a beautiful view, but it's just a beautiful view on a flatscreen tv. I'm trying to show him the real view outside in 3D but he just can't see it. Very sad, very frustrating. Something that Roadwarrior wrote on that other thread about God using suffering in his economy to bring us to Him tells me that he is going to have to go through a hard hard thing, maybe several hard things, before he will finally find God. It makes me sorrowful to know this, and yet I am so relieved that God is in charge of this, not me. I am also learning that every time I start to grieve, I immediately close my eyes and tell God exactly how I feel. I don't know how God will work, I just know that He can be trusted. Please pray for this man's salvation too.

Thank you to each of you again. I promise to hug each of you when we eventually meet in heaven (I'm not being morbid, I'm really looking forward to keeping that promise!!) :)

May God's love hold you tight and fast!

RoadWarrior
Jan 20th 2008, 06:11 AM
Hi CJ,

Thanks for stopping in! Thank you also for praying for us. Now that you have gone through this, you are going to have a perspective that you never had before. We frequently have people log in with this issue from both sides of the yoke. Right now there is a young Buddhist woman who is devastated that her 2-year live-in lover has left her. She is willing to go to church to support him, but she just doesn't believe.

Do you have any advice for her? Her thread is in Christians Answer, if you do. But if you are not ready to jump in, I fully understand. Just realize this, when you are ready, God has a great big ministry out there for you.

Not long ago, there was a man who was the unbeliever who logged in and cried out for help - his girlfriend was breaking up with him because in her church she had learned not to be unequally yoked. He did turn to God during the time we counseled him, but he did not get his girlfriend back. Sometimes it is just too late. Or maybe it just was not the right combination of persons in the first place.

None of us know the answers, but we know the Lord God who does know the answers. And you will know, one step at a time, what you are supposed to do next. You will hear a voice in your ear saying, this is the way, walk in it.

karenoka27
Jan 22nd 2008, 12:13 AM
There is nothing morbid about us rejoicing together one day in heaven..I think you said it quite well!:hug:

ClayJar
Jan 28th 2008, 09:07 AM
Been over a week. Ten days actually. And I hear from him again today.
His email basically asked me not to pity him, that he doesn't want me to pray for his 'damned' soul, that he will never change his opinion because he can't change what he already feels to be correct over years of experience and reflection. He thinks that people turn to Christianity out of security, that he prefers truth instead (or as close to it as he can get to it). And he finds it meaningless to throw away these beliefs if he experiences suffering (what he's saying is if he accepts the Christian answer). He also said I do not respect others' beliefs and asks me why I discard many others' views when all them point to the same thing.

I thought about replying - I had a draft reply all about self-defeating postmodernist relativism and the hopelessness of humanism - but everything has become so circular. I've debated this so many times before, but he just doesn't understand. And I KNOW it's Satan working again: I keep going back for one more debate, because maybe I wasn't clear enough the last time, maybe I can say it in a different way that makes more sense this time... always coming up with another thing to do or say so I have another reason to hope. I'd JUST finished a tearful QT with God this morning where I'd Just renewed my trust in Him and felt more assured - and then I check my email and lo and behold: this email from him! I felt like Job - like Satan was having a 'go' at me straight after my QT. And I had Asked God to please protect me from Satan - because I can feel him trying to draw me back!

I think if I keep debating with him (even without considering the stumbling block of the vessel of the message: my own human emotional self), if he Does see the truth/merit of what I'm saying, he is likely to still reject it even more because it would mean that I am right and that he is wrong. I don't want to be the cause of such hardening of heart.

I think now that this is God's big warning sign - the man is telling me he cannot change, he Is bitter and angry with me (I don't blame him - I tried to change him so that I could have a relationship with him on my terms: that he be a Christian), and I am not doing him any favours with any more reasoning. I feel like everything has just been a waste! :(

Thank you for reminding me that it Will not be a waste if I have the courage to walk away. When I first read his email I felt so sad and ill inside - it's so final, the door slamming hard, it's as if he's signed and sealed a testament that he's telling me he's bound for hell. And by it, God is showing me, I can't do Anything about it. This is now God's territory and I have to get out of God's way. The most loving thing to do (for the guy) and the most pleasing thing to do (for God) is to walk away.

Not as hard as it used to be 2 months, or even 1 month ago... I desperately cling to God for strength. It really is one painful step at a time, letting go. Please pray for me, thank you.

RoadWarrior
Jan 28th 2008, 03:54 PM
Been over a week. Ten days actually. And I hear from him again today.
...
Not as hard as it used to be 2 months, or even 1 month ago... I desperately cling to God for strength. It really is one painful step at a time, letting go. Please pray for me, thank you.

Hi CJ,

Thanks for the update. You are doing well. You are right in choosing to not reply to the bait. A short kind note that says, I'm sorry, go in peace, would be no problem. But I think you guessed right, that Satan sees you getting close to the Lord again and will use his every trick to stumble you. His attacks will become less and less frequent as you are victorious and finally he will leave off.

Praying :pray: that the Lord will give you strength, peace, and the joy of your salvation.

pamela
Jan 28th 2008, 06:51 PM
Sorry, I did not read through the whole post, but I just read the last few posts and I am truly sorry you are going through this, it must be tough. I have been through the circular reasoning you talked about above and once you get to that point it is difficult to go any further. However, there is one way of witnessing that I found effective and it cuts through to the heart of the problem, sin. This way is using the law to show a person their true nature. God's law is written on every heart and everyone knows they have done wrong, it is our conscience that informs us. We know it is wrong to lie, to steal, to lust, to hate. You can use the law to bring knowledge of sin and therefore make it more understandable that a just God must punish lawbreaking and so therefore Hell is reasonable. If they won't hear the good news, most likely it is because they don't understand the bad news. You can check out information on how to witness this way at livingwaters.com or wayofthe master.com. I will be praying for you!

ClayJar
Feb 10th 2008, 10:32 PM
Dear all

I am prayer-journalling again. This weekend I went back to him. I know I shouldn't have, but I missed him too much. I actually bumped into him buying food and he was flirting with the waitress.. when he saw me he said, well I'm single, you rejected me, it was your choice remember?
I told him I haven't been eating or sleeping (he noticed my weight loss) and that I missed him. He said he thought I was malicious doing what I did to him - ie, rejecting, going back, rejecting again etc.. but after I told him how hurt I've been he said I'm actually really sweet but that I didn't know what love was. If love meant putting God first or his salvation first, he said those things don't mean anything to him. And that if he were to change his mind about Christianity, it would take time (because he's so much older and already believes in what he believes and doesn't think he can change) and that anyway, the answers would not come from me. Boom - God spoke to me through the man himself.

I also found out from him that he had been with another person since our last break up - they went out for a week, slept together, and he broke up with her because he didn't think it would work. How could he, when he's told me before that he's regretted all his past relationships and agreed with me that it does create a spiritual connection and that only meant that his past had made him so much more empty inside. And yet.. now! - and telling me that he has to protect himself from me.. but being with someone else is not protecting himself either?! Here I am grieving and even the thought of being with someone else is so repulsive (2 guys have asked me to lunch and I had to tell them straight out that I could only go out with a Christian and that I was getting over someone else at the moment) - and he's already trying to find someone else. That hurt so much because to him, I'm just one more girl in his past that didn't work out and he has moved on. And to me, I'd given everything. When he saw the pain on my face, he said how could you be jealous of her, you rejected me. I said the point was not jealousy - it didn't matter who he'd been with, if he'd slept with 1 or a 100 women - that wasn't the point. The point was that it was a reflection on him, that he got over me so quickly or even if he hadn't, that he'd moved on anyway. I wasn't looking for anyone so when he came into my life, I fell really hard. He, however, has been hurt before, has had many previous relationships, was specifically looking for a partner when he met me and still is now, so he would never be hurt the way I am.

We talked about other things as well which I realise so clearly now, we have different views - one example, we were just hypothetically talking, if a married man had a woman friend come up to him and ask if they'd like to share a room during a group holiday with friends - he said he would say ok but then just not go for the holiday at all. His reasoning was that the woman has taken a lot of courage to make herself so vulnerable in asking such a question so he wouldn't hurt her. I was shocked. I said I wouldn't care if I was the guy, because I love my wife more than anything (apart from God of course) so I'll just tell my friend no, I love my wife. Simple. Also, I knew that even during our time that we spent together this weekend if I had wanted to sleep with him again, he made it clear that he would - even though this time he (rightfully) has now guarded his heart towards me because he knows there's a high chance that I would reject him again. I just felt sad knowing that - he never really loved me, he'd said so himself, he was Falling in love with me but I kept pulling the brakes all the time and never allowed him to. But he would still sleep with me if I wanted it. But it doesn't feel the same. He was affectionate, but I know it's really just lust, what we were doing was still sinful. And I kept silent and hated myself for what I'd done, I felt so sick inside. I knew that if he really loved me (like a Christian guy would), he would say No even if I Asked him to sleep with me. He's not a bad person, and from a nonchristian point of view, he is just trying to find love, a permanent partner - and there's nothing wrong with that. Love to a nonbeliever is really different, because they don't Know the author of Love Himself. They don't know that the void inside has to be filled with God first - seek first the kingdom of God and all other things (like the right woman, the right path for your life) will be added to you. His values are just so different from mine because... he's just simply not a Christian.

I needed to hear all of that from him didn't I. Although a nonchristian friend of mine who I told this to railed at me and said that I should just cut my losses and that ignorance is bliss. I made the mistake of trying to change him. I made the mistake of going my way against God and am now paying for it with all this hurt and pain. I made the mistake this week of going back to him, lost my pride and dignity and yet, I think God wanted me to hear from the man himself that He Is Not The One. I know to him, he has done nothing wrong from his point of view, and I must not idealise him anymore. But I shall not demonise him to get over him faster either. I know the best healing, the Only healing, has to come from God the Master Physician Himself. For the first time, I really Do want to keep away from him now. Because I can't take anymore. I thought before that guarding my own heart just sounded weak and selfish, but somehow, I don't care anymore. It really hurt too much, this weekend. I feel like throwing up all the time, I want to cry but I can't, inside of me still feels like I'm dying, and I can't concentrate at work.. Please pray for me.

RoadWarrior
Feb 11th 2008, 12:40 AM
Hi Clayjar,

Your post is very insightful. You are seeing what you needed to see, you are learning more about why Christians should not be yoked with unbelievers.

It is actually quite remarkable to see what you have revealed here - that as a Christian, your love and commitment meant so much more. As an unbeliever, for him it is more about "loving the one you are with" as the song goes. The serial affairs are quite detrimental to a person's character in the long run. Each affair steals away another little piece of a person's essential character. The person becomes more and more fragmented, and less able to stand firmly on any belief or position.

Breaking up with him is hard for you because you gave away an important part of yourself, of your heart. Getting that back is almost impossible, isn't it.

It is my prayer for you that you are now going to be able to bring all of broken pieces before the Lord and ask Him for the healing that you need. When He gives you that healing, you will be able to turn your back resolutely on this part of your life. You may always have the scars, but you will not always have the gaping wound.

Yes, I think you did need to see this more clearly than you had been seeing. You needed to "hear" him say the things that he said, you needed for his mask to slip enough that you could see the ugliness inside.

Are you now ready to move on?

ClayJar
Feb 11th 2008, 04:12 AM
Thank you Roadwarrior.

I don't know if I'm ready to move on. I guess I am. I'm a mess in my head at the moment. I'm so stubborn that I think from just sheer exhaustion from fighting God (in wanting things to be different, even though, of course, it's impossible that I make things right just by sheer frustrated prayers to make the guy a christian)... that I will just give up.

Yes, I gave my heart away. It was foolish. Like the Israelites and their idols. Yes, getting it back feels almost impossible.

I don't know why I'm like this. He's so not perfect, but yet I want him. But seriously, the main point is no matter how good or bad he is, he's Just Not A Christian. This is the first time that obeying God is Such a Hard thing.

But I know the guy doesn't love me. Not the way I know God wants. His idea of love is a human/selfish one, by virtue of his nonbelief. You're right, he's so fragmented that his emotional baggage has made him even more blind to what love is from God's point of view. I can't help but think that he'll tell himself anything is justified in his pursuit for 'love' and fulfilment that he'll never see anything he does as Really his fault ('This has been Your choice remember- rejecting, returning..? You are the one who made all the choices. I've been hurt before already, I now have to protect myself.'). Kind of like the way people reject God over time.. their hearts being hardened. It's so painful. I can't save him! I know that now God. I've just got hurt in the process of trying to take over control of what is rightfully your job. Please heal me.. Am I demonising him in order to get over him? I don't know anymore.

RoadWarrior
Feb 11th 2008, 05:06 AM
It is not demonizing, Clayjar. It is seeing reality. This is how the world is. "If you can't have this one, move on, maybe the waitress will do as well."

In a way, that is true. What he wants is not necessarily The One that God has chosen for him. He just wants a woman. And he's willing to settle for temporary relationships. A series of temporary relationships.

It also sounds like he doesn't accept any part of the responsibility for the actual success of any given relationship. It is his way, or the highway.

I know it is hard. I am sorry to hear that you are losing weight over this. It is like a death, isn't it. My sister-in-law lost a lot of weight when her husband died suddenly. Yours is not a physical death, but a death of a relationship that meant a lot to you. I am so sorry, Clayjar. You are in my prayers.

baxpack7
Feb 11th 2008, 10:09 PM
Clayjar, I've been following your thread for a while now and was encouraged by your recent post Now, the difficult part starts-letting him go.

I'm not going to pretend that I know exactly how you feel, but I hope that my words are found to be encouraging and helpful.


I can agree with Roadwarrior to the opinion of he doesn't really care for you the way you want or need him to. I think that he is looking for Miss "right now" not Miss "right".And unfortunately, he wants to change you to fit his needs, and that is definitely not the way it should be. Even if you were to be with him, he would need to accept you for who you are, not who he wants you to be.

The point is really moot because God wants your unconditional love, just as He loves you, and that's the gist of the situation. Nothing else is more important than that.

I know that it's easy for me to say these things, but I know with God's help and passage of time, everything will be just fine and who knows what God has in store for you in the near future? I say he has some wonderful, awesome things just waiting for you!

You will remain in my prayers until God sees you through this situation. Know that we all have love for you and are praying for you as well:pray::pray:

From your brother in Christ- Jeff(Baxpack7)

ClayJar
Feb 12th 2008, 06:32 AM
Roadwarrior and Jeff (and anyone else who has been praying), thank you for keeping me in your prayers. I really take refuge in knowing this and it helps. Thank you.

The thing is, from his point of view, he doesn't see that there is anything that I'll have to change or give up. Because he doesn't see that I'll be giving up anything except this 'ridiculous condition that your religion has that you must marry a Christian'. It is I who's putting any 'conditions' - that I want him to be a Christian. And that is something, rightfully, he cannot do For me. And I have apologised and asked him to forgive me for trying to change him (I've probably made him dislike Christianity even more).

It's true that he will set the course for his life based on what he wants so the partner he's seeking would have to conform to/support that. And that would be Her choice... The problem for me would be, I would have to support a partner whose goals and values in life would be according to his own will rather than God's will... and that's the sacrifice I would be making - that my life would be tied to that.. So I know that if I go back to him, I can never 'complain' in future if he fails to meet up to any of my expectations of him. It would have been my choice to choose to be with him, and I now realise that a nonchristian mate can always use that against you ('You chose this, remember?').

For example: To a nonchristian, the strength and will to stay faithful to one's spouse is based on their own self-strength - that's why so many nonchristians are hesitant about getting married - and rightfully so if one depends on their own ability to stay faithful and to love someone forever. But to a Christian who loves God first in their life, who Knows God (who Is love) - they would know that God's intention for marriage is for 2 people to KNOW each other (Adam knew his wife) so well, and see their partner as God's chosen one for them to prioritise their spiritual welfare ahead of their own - when you have that, the ability to stay faithful and in love would automatically be a Response to that.. Like everything else we are able to do in life. we do on God's strength... because our lives are just a Response to God who loves us first. To him, he believes he has the ability to rely on his own strength. That he has a lot to give and to be faithful. He thinks that love is that irrational feeling you have for someone that cannot be explained, that gives you the motivation to love and stay faithful to them. I asked what happens when that feeling goes away? He said, we'd have gotten used to each other by then so we'll stay together. I know that's not enough for me. I know if I tied myself to this man, I cannot blame him if he doesn't see love this way. I would KNOWINGLY be giving up this 'assurance' of the Christian marriage.

I know all this is supposedly basic to any Christian and hence the obvious reason why we should heed the 'Do not be unequally yoked' warning. I played with fire. I went to an unsafe place with recklessness. I didn't think I would get This hurt. I really regret not listening to God.

Letting go is HARD! So hard that I think I can't do it. The pain is unbearable - I never knew heartbreak before until now. I know most people go through this at 18 and somehow get over it (sometimes through ways that are not good), and I know I'm in a blessed position because I know enough to know that God can Heal. Even then, regardless of what I KNOW, I often FEEL that I Can't possibly get over this. I don't know how long more I can last. It's why I kept going back, and getting myself hurt. And I keep wanting to go back to him - even now, despite what I know and everything that I've written above - because the pain is just unbearable!! Because I keep thinking of how he has the freedom to sleep with other people (he did already!) and that I didn't matter as much to him as he did to me. - These are the very thoughts that plague me and I keep asking God to take Satan's torture away. I keep wanting to hold on to him, to want him to know what I'm going through, so that all that I've given to him would not have been a Waste. And yet because his values are different, I can't 'blame' him for my grief! :(

I Am trying to give the burden of my pain and the brokenness to God... I really am. I'm trying not to think about those thoughts in the above paragraph, I'm trying not to think about him. I don't know how this really works, how God will see me through this. But I just know that for now, I can't contact the man anymore. Because I can't bear to hear about his moving on with other people. It just hurts too much.

RoadWarrior
Feb 12th 2008, 06:43 AM
This is good journaling, Clayjar. It is late here and I'm about to go to bed, but I will be praying for you.

Father God, please comfort my sister and draw her back to her first love, her love for You. Let that love which you have for her overwhelm and overpower the hurt she feels. Redeem the broken parts of her heart. Restore to her the joy of her salvation. Send your Holy Spirit to minister to her brokenness.

In Jesus' precious name
and in the power of His sacrifice on her behalf,

Amen.

ClayJar
Feb 16th 2008, 05:18 AM
Dear all

The 'saga' turns..

I received a horrible horrible letter from him where he said a lot of hurtful things.. that I was brutal for hurting him again and again, that I was less than human, that he didn't respect me, that he detested me and my vicious God, that he never wanted to speak to me again. I know he said it all out of anger.. I wanted to record the main parts of my reply here. I think God wants for me to share this and somehow help Christians dating nonbelievers, that they may benefit from reading this:


This is the most painful thing anyone has ever written to me. Partly because of how much you so badly misunderstood me (because you were unaware of the internal battle I was having in trying to change myself to be with you). And partly because I think no matter how hurt/angry a person can be, some of those uncalled for words are still venomous and hurtful, and also unjustly attack God (it is I who has hurt you, not Him). But I know and understand that you wrote this in pain.

I tried to change myself in order to be with you. I really did, so many times, every time I went back to you, despite what I Know about love and life and God, because I felt I couldn't live without you. Because I wanted to have you despite the differences in our beliefs.

I do know what love is - because God has loved me first - and I cannot give Him up. I tried to. I tried to deny the Truth that He has revealed to me. But I cannot. I think the reason why you did not understand me is because perhaps you think that a relationship between us doesn't require me to give up much but just to compromise in accepting you as a nonchristian. I used to think that, I tried to tell myself that too.

I really struggled with this - eg as we talked and shared (and how I will miss talking to you!), all my views, my thoughts, my answers were all centred around my faith. If you were a Christian, I would ask you to pray for God to reveal His will for you. I would ask you not to rely on what You think is right (for you may be motivated by emotion, guilt, and you are handicapped solely by virtue of being human and not knowing the future) but to seek and love God first and He will Find you and show you the path to take.

But I knew that I could not change you and that you'd eventually resent me if I kept trying to. I realised that you would eventually see me as useless to you and I would be crushed. So I held back my thoughts, and in doing so held back a big part of myself.

My life has been bought by God's sacrifice, so I want to live it for Him. And one of the things He wants for me is to be a wholly loyal, devoted, loving, self-sacrificially supportive wife to a man who loves God first and wants to live to serve Him and to do His will. Because our lives and the ability/strength in us are all a response to God's love. But how am I going to live to serve God if what I have to offer is not something my husband needs or really understands because he doesn't have a relationship with God? Our beliefs and our values are so different.

God also wants for my husband to lead and protect my relationship with God - I know you can't do that, and I tried to tell myself that I won't need or demand this of you, that I will sacrifice receiving this from a husband... but I know it's not going to be enough and I'm afraid of resenting you in future for it. I tried changing my mind on everything I believe to be true and right and learnt the hard way that I can't - I cannot deny that everything that God has shown and taught me about Christian love between a man and woman is Right.

Here, I am truly truly sorry that I hurt you in this process. In my fight with God to try and BE my own god in determining how to love you: I would recognise that real love was to trust you to God and would say no to our relationship. And then I would try and take God's place and think that I knew better (We really understand each other, we are so compatible, I really want to be part of his life!') and would return to you. But then I'll realise what I was doing was wrong and will not work, and I would say no again.

I am very sorry and ashamed that I did not trust God enough and in my disobedience, I have hurt you, I have hurt myself, and I have hurt God. So I understand why you do not want me to contact you again. I will do as you ask. You mean a lot to me, more than you will ever know or understand unless one day you are a Christian.


I share this also because as Roadwarrior suggested, I want to remember how God's hand has been in this - the little victories in the long night. Although I knew what was right, God knew that I was not strong enough to let this man go. But He led me through it. He does know my needs and He knows me better than I know myself. He knows that deep inside me, I was a SLAVE to my feelings, to sin. I did not trust God - I was so convinced that God had No Idea that what He was putting me through was just too hard to bear. But He really did not forsake me! He has taken every step before me - all of this, just to make me realise that I am Nothing without Him! I can't believe He loves me so much!

Roadwarrior, Karenoka, protea, Jeff, evrgreenjhawk, in answer to Roadwarrior's question "Are you now ready to move on?". My answer is now Yes. I'm still scared that I'll fail again, but I have a quiet confidence in God now that I didn't have before. Today is the first time that I really sense that I can TRUST God with the future, with healing me, with taking care of this man and I am ready to give him totally up to God. :hug:

ClayJar
Feb 16th 2008, 06:01 AM
And 2 things I have truly learnt from this:

1. Human effort alone cannot convert a person. I used to think that Christianity just made so much sense, that the main reason why people weren't believers was because they didn't Understand enough about the Gospel message. But I have literally tried every argument to rationalise to an intellectual who has read so much (the bible included).. to no avail. Such pride. Apologetics really only benefits those who Are earnestly seeking.. I really GET John 6:65 now, that unless God enables, no one can come to Jesus. The best testimony is to simply Be Christian. As John Piper said before, "God is MOST glorified in us when we are MOST satisfied in Him." Then they'll see the light from the jars of clay.

2. Even though a broken heart is a universal experience, I really felt like No One really understood me. Despite all the love and care and concern and prayers, I knew I was exasperating everyone and I STILL felt alone. I remember once hearing in a movie, a man philosophically said, "There is no one person in the world that Really understands another (he's right). No wonder we are all lonely." That is the one existential issue for the world isn't it, loneliness. But I want to shout this out to everyone: THERE IS ONE, ONLY ONE, WHO UNDERSTANDS YOU - more than anyone human, more than yourself. If you are in the Lord, your heart cannot ever be truly broken. I gave so much of myself away, I know now that no human can ever fill that void in me again. Only God can. TOTAL redemption, healing, forgiveness. I am New, Inside. I am indeed BLESSED.

RoadWarrior
Feb 16th 2008, 06:20 AM
Sometimes Clayjar, we have to see how horrible it can be - we have to feel how much it can hurt - before we are ready to move on. It is my prayer for you that this was the last bit you needed.

Today in a Bible study group, a young lady talked about sugar - when she eats something with sugar in it, she gets really tired and she feels awful! She knows that she will react that way, yet temptation comes to her again, and she thinks, "maybe just this little bit won't hurt me" - and then she finds herself fighting to feel well again. "How," she asked the group, "can I stop myself from continually forgetting, and going back to sugar?"

"The way I deal with it, with keeping away from sugar," I told her, "is to think of sugar as poison."

CJ, any contact with this man is poison to you. Nurturing the thoughts of the "sweet things" you experienced in the relationship with him, draws you back to drink from the poison.

Even exchanging letters with him, will keep you in bondage.

I have a loved one who has fought alcoholism from an early age. For years he was in and out of AA groups, and it never worked for him. He told me it was just another way to build your life around alcohol. When the group gets together, they say "Hi, I am So-and-so, and I'm an alcoholic." Then they all talk about their lives as alcoholics. It is their identity, it is their focus. This loved one came to realize that there was no deliverance in that. Where he found his deliverance was in making a decision. He had a choice. He could continue as he was, or he could turn his back on it. He knew, he came to know, that he could not be in control of having "just one drink". Alcohol was "poison" to him.

Ro 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. NKJV

What do you need to cleanse out of your house, out of your life, CJ? Do you have little gifts from him, little love letters, pictures, other things that are reminders? Are you ready to cleanse your house of these things? Are you ready to take every thought of him captive to the obedience of Christ?

2 Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. NKJV

Do you understand what that means for you? Every thought about this man that comes to you, you must not entertain it. You must not nurture it. You must turn your mind away from every thought of him, whether good or bad, whether analyzing or feeling self-pity or self-recrimination. You must turn every bit of your mind to Jesus.

When I have had to fight such a battle, I would talk to Jesus, not about the situation, but about Jesus. I would praise Him, and thank Him, and focus on the love I have from Him, and the love I have for Him. Gradually the old thoughts faded away. Slowly the world turned right-side-up again.

You can get victory over this, Clayjar. But you have to decide that you want victory. You have to choose.

On one side is life. On the other side is death.

You have learned what it is to drink sewer water. Now go and wash in the clear mountain spring, drink the pure water of the Word, let Jesus wash you and wash you and wash you.

Take every thought captive in Jesus.

ClayJar
Feb 16th 2008, 06:58 AM
Roadwarrior!
I needed to hear that. I know that verse about taking every thought captive - I could just never do it.
But yes, my stubbornness - I caused myself to get to that stage of hurt - which I recognise was purely my own fault - but God used that to show me that it IS death. Despite the self-awareness and my eyes open to the knowledge of God, I could not leave the bondage. I sometimes think I now understand why women stay on with men who beat them even though they know it's not good for them. It IS like taking drugs / alcoholism / any addiction - the road to real recovery only starts when we Decide we want no more. I THANK GOD THAT HE HAS HELPED ME REACHED THIS STAGE. Turning my back for good on what has been killing me.

Whenever I wake up, my first conscious thought before my eyes even opened would be of this man, and the sadness would wash over.

But today, I did what you said, I talked to Jesus, About Jesus. It's a slow miracle. And I started crying, not because of this man, but because of Jesus. He told me to read from Job, from John, and I found comfort in the Psalms - His Word which I have neglected reading on a daily basis. It is getting easier. Stubborn me - first the difficulty in turning my back on what I wanted that was killing me. Then now, so hard to even take that one painful small step of faith towards God. And Yet, when we do that, God responds with one Giant step to us - sweeping us into his embrace. God's salvation in me - that heals me so I can take this healing to others! People always think that their depression needs a clinical answer so they see a doctor who tells them about positive thinking. But if only they knew about True Healing, the Best 'psychotherapy' there is IS in taking every thought captive to Jesus.

RoadWarrior
Feb 16th 2008, 04:37 PM
Clayjar, I love the expression you used - a slow miracle! It is true. Not a dramatic light'ning in the sky miracle, but a slow steady sure miracle. I love it. :pp

Many Christians don't realize that this is what it takes to be faithful. To trust in the slow miracle. We want sudden and dramatic, when all we need is one step at a time, one day at a time, to start the day with Jesus and walk quietly with Him all day long.

When I read your message, a little shout went up inside me - Hallelujah! I am so grateful that your interrupted journey has begun anew. Thank you for letting us be part of this. Your story is a testimony to the struggle and to the victory.

Have a wonderful day!

Ashly
Feb 17th 2008, 02:11 AM
My prayers are with you. This is a major "issue" in my life right now as well. I divorced (and probably didn't wait long enough following the divorce, dating this man only weeks later; even though the separation was nearly two years and I "believed" I was over the ex) and then met a man I fell in love with and thought we would spend our lives together ... those were the discussions and beliefs we both had at the time. He, too, wanted to "live right" and put God first (he was a non-believer that claimed he wanted to convert and turn his life over to God, as I had, and take the journey "together") but when it came down to "walking the walk" we talked, he could not step forward. I "bargained" with God and came to the conclusion that it was okay to partake in a sexual relationship ... because we intended to "marry and make it right in God's eyes" anyway. He slipped back into old ways he had given up (marijuana & alcohol) and that's when I knew it had to end. Still ... it went on and on; well, actually, it went "off and on" and we tried the friendship thing in between those "off" times as well; that's just not even realistic, but being so in love that those powerful emotions rendered me completely blind ... I "wanted" us to be able to pull it off (deciding, in my blindness, that we would), hoping we would ultimately be life mates.

By not letting go soon enough, the relationship ended in utter destruction; we were horrible to each other (finally, that bridge sure did get burned beyond repair)! The things that were said and done are unthinkable. The pain still feels so tremendous and unbearable. I'm still in love with him, I hurt so bad; but finally I walked away ... and I don't regret it. I'm even so full of faith now that if he came back begging, I would still have the strength to turn him away (although I know it would devastate me, I hope I never have to). I'm back with God, and He is holding me. With time, I know I'll be okay and this hurt will diminish. The way it ended though ... God and I are still working on that.

If I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't.

And now, I'm 41. I've pretty much resigned myself to the idea of ever having a mate/marrying again. There are so many other things I'm facing now, and I can't help but feel that even the men in my age group will insist upon a sexual relationship ... after all, look at our age ... and we're already experienced (yes, I've already heard). Wait until we're married? At my age, is there potential to find a man that loving toward me, and that dedicated to God? I honestly don't know. It's in God's hands, but one thing's for sure, I'm not holding my breath waiting for a mate. Nope.

:giveup:

Ashly

ClayJar
Feb 17th 2008, 03:50 AM
Thank you for your prayers.

Ashly I feel so much for what you've gone through. And you have been through so much more than I have. It's true how emotions so blind us that we think it's impossible to escape bondage. That we have to get to such a stage of hurt before we finally surrender to God (I think of Jacob wrestling with God). In my case, the man I wanted so much to marry had to tell me how much he hated me and never wanted to speak to me again. Yours sounded even worse and my heart goes out to you. But you know what? I see God in this, that even though He's hurting in our stubborn disobedience to Him, He slowly had to close all these doors to us, despite the pain it caused, for our own good, because he loves us so much. And because I know this, I know that God will also heal you completely. Completely. I know how you feel - I sometimes think I will always be in love with this man, that I will never love anyone else. But right now, I wouldn't trade this relationship that I've renewed with God, for assuming the future anymore. I know God loves this man more than I do, and I don't fight God about his salvation anymore. I know God loves me so much, that I truly don't fear for my heart in the future - I know in time He will heal me so completely that I can use it to serve Him again. Every time I think this, tears of gratefulness comes. If you read my earlier posts, you'll see how far I've come!

Now. I can't ever go back to this man, I just have to keep away and pray to God that God protects me - like you said, I hope I never have to face him to Literally turn him away because I don't think I could take it. I probably will be devastated again, because I'm still in love with him. I'm too afraid of myself, that's why I know I can only just trust in God. It's keeping me desperately clinging to Him, and I prefer it to the desperately trying to make the wrong relationship right.

Still though, I sit here in tears because of it... and it's a battle that I don't know how long it will take for me to get through. It IS a slow miracle (Hugs to you Roadwarrior) - I know I cannot go back to the emotional hell I went through. But daily, minute by minute, I am Struggling to hold every thought captive and obedient to God. I know how weak I am now - I have to forge my spiritual armour every day - and I'm finding it very hard. This is the hardest test of faith and I sometimes feel I'm all alone, I have to keep 'finding' God and remind myself that He will never leave nor forsake me. Please keep praying for me. I will pray for you too.

bat
Mar 1st 2008, 09:06 PM
:confusedHi, I too have been down this road, actually I think I am coming to the end of it. Wondering how you are doing and asking for prayer with my situation. Would go into more detail, but don't know if you are still responding to this thread. I just found this by searching unequally yoked relationship on the net. Hope you are doing well.

:bible:May God Bless you,
BAT

ClayJar
Mar 2nd 2008, 02:27 AM
Hello
Welcome Bat! I wanted to let you know that I have just said a prayer for you. Please feel free to share and I promise I will keep praying for you! This thread is my online prayer journal :) so I come back to it during the day every time I feel down, to read the encouragement, loving advice and prayers that everyone has given here, to remember that I am not alone in battling my spiritual Achilles heel.

I am ok - it has been maybe half a month of no-contact. I still have up moments and down moments. The down moments: I occasionally have insomnia or find myself waking from a nightmare or a sad dream about him, and I'm still tired, so I know I haven't been sleeping well. Or I'll be busy at work and then Wham! I'll have a vivid thought of him Being with someone else, and the pain is so intense that although I try my best to pray, I have a look at post #45 here on page 3, remind myself of everything I KNOW, that God LOVES, that The Only Thing that Matters is that I must TRUST Him with the future, and ask God to take Satan away from me! - my emotions still maim me.

At this stage, I recognise that how I feel is still 'catching up' with what I know. I know it will take time to heal. I've given up beating myself up for not having my emotions in line. I get sad when I think about how he has moved on and I'll probably take a longer time to get over this, even though I know it's ridiculous to think that there's a 'competition' here. I refuse to let my heart get hardened by 'killing' my emotions, just to 'get over' this quickly. My emotions are a gift from God, I just invested them in the wrong place. So now I am doing all I can, physically, if not emotionally, to keep away - I avoid places that I may bump into him, and sometimes when my mind is doing its best to wander and stray and I'm SO tempted to call him, I have to admit that the one motivation to Stay Away in that desperate second in time between having his number registered on the phone to hitting 'send' is purely Self Preservation - I cannot bear to hear about him being with someone else - he has said before that he may or may not marry but he will be having affairs. I cannot bear it. I don't want to know.

Roadwarrior was right in that I must treat contact with him as 'poison' - and that focusing on my DAILY walk with God is the only distraction that is the Right one. I keep to my quiet times, which I've neglected. That helps but they sometimes lead me to tears and loneliness.. My mind is so susceptible to sad thoughts; it's a daily walk to train my mind's every thought to make it obedient to God. So during the long work week when I am at my weakest spiritually, I spend 2 lunchtimes at Christian talks for workers in the city, I joined up with one of their bible study groups that meet during the week, and instead of joining workmates for friday night drinks, I make it a point to meet up with a Christian friend for dinner.

I have some lovely nonChristian friends who care about me and are trying to 'get me out' so I can 'meet other people', pamper myself and 'have a good time' - all of which I appreciate their good intentions, but I know that that's not going to Really solve the main Problem. There are a few nonChristian guys who have shown interest and I admit the small voice of temptation is there 'maybe one harmless lunch or drink may make me feel better about myself, prove to him that he's missed out!' - and then I feel disgusted with that thought, I don't Need to 'get over' this the way that he has - ie finding someone else. I have something that he hasn't - I know I am Worth So Much to the ONLY person who matters - the One who DIED for me! I think of the emotional trauma from this relationship and there is NO way I am ever going to consider going out with a nonChristian again.

After one long day, during which I had been battling these thoughts in my mind and using work to distract myself, I got home and was just outside my house getting the keys, I turned around and saw a huge full moon, low in the sky and surrounded by yellow clouds and the sight took my breath away. And I felt inside God saying, Don't worry, I will look after him. Just focus on what you know you have to do...

God was sovereign over the moon, over me. Peace and gratitude engulfed me like the clouds. I stood there and cried and cried. I know loving God first is all He wants. He loves this man more than I do. He loves ME more than anyone else does or ever will. I know that letting this man go is the right thing, the best thing, the most loving thing.. the most obedient thing, the hardest thing, to do. Yet it is God who is enabling me. God loves us, He will never leave nor forsake us. :hug: Keep praying, keep Him close. 50 years on this planet is but a blink and our eternal Father does not change!

bat
Mar 2nd 2008, 07:10 PM
Thank-you Clayjar, I'm glad you are still doing well, as well as can be expected. I am 39 years old, have a wonderful 9 year old son and was engaged to a nonchristian. I was not walking the Christian life, we were living together, he was great with my son and myself, for almost 3 years. I knew he didn't really believe and I ignored it, thinking that eventually he would. We were to marry, in Vegas, last October of 2006. August 28, 2006, I discovered that he was essentially a sex addict and was meeting woman on line, under a fake name, the whole purpose was to have sex with them, and he wasn't choosy in the WOMEN, he slept with, I was dumbfounded, I had not a clue that he was capable of such a thing. I didn't find out all of this immediately, he denied it for months, but I was obsessed with finding out what he was doing, and I found out much more than I wish I had, I too lost weight and couldn't sleep for a very long time. You would think I would walk away and never look back, but I didn't understand how this man that said he loved me and my son, could do this, there had to be a logical explanation, bad childhood, unloving parents, something that we could work on and turn things around. This last year and a half has been a great journey for me, I say great because it has brought me closer to the Lord. I started attending church every Sunday, attending Bible studies, small groups, I have made some very good Christian friends, which have been very supportive. They pray for me and this guy regularly. We don't live together anymore, and we started going to a counselor, not a Christian counselor though, to work on our relationship. But it weighs on my heart that we are unequally yoked. I too have been addicted to this man, and don't want to give him up, but I feel like that is what I am supposed to do. It has been a year and a half, and I am a lot stronger now in my faith. I know I need to let him go and let God work on him 'without my help', but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to tell him, I don't want to cause him pain. He knows I have grown closer to God and doesn't discourage me, but he makes it clear to me that he doesn't feel the same way. I was going to somehow tell him today, but I don't know what to say and have 'chickened out'. Please pray for me to find the words and for him to find his way.

I think you write so well, it has been easy for me to relate to you in your writings. I am not a scholar of the Bible and can't quote any scripture, but I pray that you find peace and stength to keep you going.:bible:

baxpack7
Mar 2nd 2008, 08:49 PM
Hello friend-may the lord bless and keep you.

Bat, I'm sure that you have read through this thread and have seen the way people have responded to our Christian sister's plight. Now it seems that you are going through the same plight. I can't pretend to know exactly what you are going through, but I can tell you this: I believe that you have already planted the seed and now you must step back and see how fertile the ground is. The good thing is, he can see and understand your situation. It's not for us to save the world, but to deliver the good news and watch for the reception of that good news. I will also say that we will pray for your situation and that you get the best of God's good and perfect will!

I truly hope that you have a God-blessed day!!!

ClayJar
Mar 3rd 2008, 12:52 AM
:hug: Bat :hug:
I understand you so very well. If I wasn't going through this, I wouldn't have. (Yet like what Ashly said above, if I had to go through it again, I SO Wouldn't!). God is really amazing.

Thank you for saying that I write well - it's only that I'm able to express my thoughts/feelings well - And because of it, some people assume that if I have such awareness and clarity of the issues, that there shouldn't be a problem of obeying and wanting to do what I know is right. But it IS so akin to a drug addiction - You KNOW the drugs are bad and it's wrong to take them. But you still alternate between denial, irrational self-persuasion that it is OK to take them because you just MISS THEM SO MUCH, anger or Fear: at yourself/the object of the addiction/the situation, fear for your own wandering mind, fear of God, hopelessness.. and then there are times when your mind is clear and you know God is there and all He has said in His Word is TRUE. Keep reading the bible! It's the only way to renew our minds - so I keep asking God to please give me the discipline to hold on to His Word.

I know what you mean by wanting to hold on yet feeling you have to give him up. I think the best way is to do this by letter/email, something like my last 'letter' to him (I think it's on page 3 - feel free to get ideas from there!). I'd tell myself, but that's so impersonal! I should tell him in person - but I know this is just an excuse to see him again and when I do, I end up not being strong enough to stick to what I originally wanted to say, and what I say comes out not as clearly as on paper.

Christian friends are very important.. but also recognise that they can't substitute for God as our first port of call. I realise that I've been very emotionally needy and really tried to rationalise against all reason when I really missed him - eg long long debates with a couple of Christian friends when I argued that God would forgive me for not being strong enough and going back to the guy - I realised that some would get just as emotional as I was simply because they cared so much for me! Some gave up and just kept praying instead. I pray that your friends will be wise and patient, and that God will lead them in their supporting of you.

I know how you feel!! A good friend once said, if your emotions are not in line yet, do what you physically can first to prevent access to the source of grief - you've done that to a large degree - moving out. I think cutting all contact is best - especially since you're not married and he doesn't sound like he'd be a good fatherly influence on your son. I know separation hurts like hell (in fact, as I'm typing this, a part of me wants so badly to be with him) but we have to go through cold turkey. I will keep praying for God to lead you in this. Think of him as Poison, and the choice is between life on one side, and death on the other - like what Roadwarrior said.

Pray before writing to him. I don't like it when people tell me that God has someone else in the future for me, so I won't say this to you. What DOES comfort me is that God is SOVEREIGN, and this is a God who LOVES us more than anything, anyone. So that can only mean that whatever happens in the future Will Be because He loves us! It hurts that the man will never understand you. But one day, he will. God's word on it. Whether in this life (if he ever becomes a Christian), or the next (on the last day, Everyone's eyes will be opened and every knee will bow before God).

It doesn't matter that you don't understand how he could say one thing and do another - to some extent, we're all sinful, you and I do the same (I say one thing about my faith to him, yet my actions have just been the opposite!) - but remember that Satan is using this as a ploy to drag you away from God. The guy is already in Satan's camp, Satan is interested in Your soul. Don't let him win. God loves the man more than you ever could, and He will look after him. What He really needs to get over his own bondage to sin is God Himself, and that's not something you can give him.

It also doesn't matter that He doesn't understand. GOD understands your love and obedience - and so do your brothers and sisters in Christ. Thank you for letting me part of your struggle, helping you helps me.
Let us all keep praying!!!!!!

Love in Christ

bat
Mar 3rd 2008, 05:15 PM
I know what you mean about not wanting to hear about another man, I too can not think about that right now. I have thought about sending an email, or a letter, but feel out of respect that I should talk to him in person. I have also thought about writing it out and then reading it to him. I don't want him to feel like I am condemning him, only that I know that we are unequally yoked, that I cannot continue this romantic relationship with him because there will not be a marriage. My Christian friends will be by my side, and help me through this. It is good to have the support of you and others on this thread, God leads us in ways that are amazing, I only wish that he could see it too.

Thank-you and God Bless,:saint:
bat

karenoka27
Mar 5th 2008, 04:58 AM
I just wanted to stop in and commend you all for being so encouraging to each other...that is what it's all about. You are a wonderful group of people.:hug:

ClayJar
Mar 6th 2008, 11:36 PM
I'm starting to read The Confessions of St Augustine. Think I've found someone who whinges and despairs and tells God all about it, and writes about his emotions more eloquently than I do :) ... my heart plunges and soars with his words. I wish every human had a personal relationship with God. I wish Jesus would return Soon.

I really don't know what lies ahead. But despite my sadness, peace that God is in control has returned. I don't want to fight God anymore. I don't want the guilt and the fear and the rationalising-against-God to go on.

The man says life is hard enough as it is without having to 'take on' Christianitiy, and he cannot afford to fall apart from a broken heart again. I used to be so heartbroken that he was so much more experienced in relationships and this is my first and I'm having such a hard time but he's going to move on.

The one helpful thing is to keep telling myself that All These Thoughts are POISON. Did I ever scoff at Paul's command in 1 Corinthians to FLEE? I don't anymore. I know how weak I am now. Flee - That word means so much more than just 'Run' - it really means 'Don't Even Think and run'! Even though I still miss him, the desire to stay completely away is now stronger than the desire to see him. One day at a time. Jesus, please keep sustaining me! I never want to leave you again.

ClayJar
Mar 6th 2008, 11:41 PM
Bat and Ashly I am praying for you. :hug:
I wanted to let every Christian out there who is battling God in wanting their own way with a nonChristian relationship know - that it's not worth it. That no matter what your will wants and your mind tries to justify, God is Right, His Word can be trusted, He loves you and like what Jeff (baxpack7) said before, deserves our unconditional love and His strength can enable you to have the faith that moves mountains, the faith to Trust Him despite your own self!!

Thank you for the privilege of making this a prayer journal. :hug:

RoadWarrior
Mar 6th 2008, 11:47 PM
Bat and Ashly I am praying for you. :hug:
I wanted to let every Christian out there who is battling God in wanting their own way with a nonChristian relationship know - that it's not worth it. That no matter what your will wants and your mind tries to justify, God is Right, His Word can be trusted, He loves you and like what Jeff (baxpack7) said before, deserves our unconditional love and His strength can enable you have the faith that moves mountains, the faith to Trust Him despite your own self!!

Thank you for the privilege of making this a prayer journal. :hug:

CJ, it is always a pleasure to read your posts! :hug:

I invite you and the others on this thread to read a new thread, started by Brother Mark in the Maturing in Christ Forum - http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=117898 - about Biblical covenant relationships. I'm learning a lot from it, myself.

bat
Mar 7th 2008, 06:18 PM
I sent out this prayer request on Tuesday, it was very difficult, and I miss him very much, but I have to let God handle this.

:pray: Pray for ---- and myself, I have come to terms that we are unequally yoked and God stopped me from marrying him by allowing me to find out what was going on in our relationship before we did. I shared this with him this evening, and he was very loving and understanding, it was very painful, I told him I could not marry him due to us being unequally yoked. Although it was difficult, I am at peace with it. I pray that God will touch his heart and maybe someday be able to come along side me and become saved.

Thank-you all:cry:

RoadWarrior
Mar 7th 2008, 06:31 PM
:pray::pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:

BAT, thank you for this post. It is good to see the ditch before you fall into it.

I know from reading these forums, that there are good Christian men out there. I know that many unbelievers are also "good" men, but there is something missing in an unequally yoked relationship.

May the Lord be very present with you as you walk through this hard place!

Befaithful
Mar 8th 2008, 04:22 AM
My heart goes out to each one of you. I have been there.

I met a man in 2002 who was not saved. At first I did not know this, but the Lord knew. This man asked me out one day and I said no. But on my way home that same day I was thinking about it as I drove from work. As I crossed over a creek on a low water bridge, I heard a vice audibly & firmly say Not This Man! It took me by surprise though I knew who it was and what he meant.

I purposed to resist this person and succeeded for a few months. He was relentless he would not stop asking. Unfortunately it was flattering(self) to me it wore down my defenses and I gave in and dated him for the next 2 yrs. During that time everything became unstable around me, life was like an emotional rollercoaster.

Like you I would spend hours evangelizing him pleading begging him and going through unending discussions defending the Lord. We would come close to agreeing but there was never complete agreement.

I would not yield neither would he, of course he thought this was fine. He did not mind if I was a christian and went to church but he had his own beliefs. Which he finally told me was Buddhism(sp). We went round and round with this... I was the one who wanted us to be equally yoked.

It was not just the our faith issues we disagreed on. There were so many things like morals integrity political stances and the list goes on that we were on opposite sides of the board with. It was constantly like we were playing that game where one person stands on each side of a line holding on to a rope. Both pulling as hard as they can to get the other person to cross over to their side. Exhausting.

Then one day we were having another discussion about the Lord. He got angry and said you know what you need to decide...it's either going to be me or Jesus. I just looked at him and said, Jesus.

Then he said, why dont you just marry him! And he stormed out of the house. Still standing there by myself now I said, that is the plan.

I prayed so much for him during those two years. At one time he even walked through the sinners prayer with me but he said months later he had not meant it...finally I yielded him completely to the Lord and walked away.

We never got back together after that. He wanted to but no that was more then enough for me.

Unequally yoked...no. Thank you:)

I pray you get where you have had enough of someone who does not love our Lord. Someone said it is the spirit of antichrist that denies our Lord like that. I dont know but it was a dark time.

ClayJar
Mar 9th 2008, 02:19 AM
Befaithful,
Thank you.
There are so many parallels with what you wrote to what I've experienced (SO MANY parallels, it's not funny), that I don't feel so alone. :hug:

Almost everything you described (apart from the audible voice) I went through - actually, I forgot this until I read your story: there was once after a long 3hour debate (we argued Buddhist thinking - which he supports - vs Christianity), he paused and looked at me and said, "It's like you're Married to Jesus Christ." That took me by surprise - he GOT Christianity on some level - human marriage IS a reflection of our first covenant with Jesus.. and I said really quietly, "yes". And he just shook his head and said, "I don't want to marry Jesus." I remember sitting there with tears in my eyes, he was so near and yet so far! The agony was so intense! I mean, I feel sad when I think of friends or family members who are not saved, but that grief was different to this horrible feeling - and I knew it's because I wanted him so badly to be saved, not only for him, but so that I could stay with him. I wanted my way instead of God's way. God was telling me, this is not your job, walk away.

It Was a really dark time - I don't ever want to go back.

I sometimes still feel it in the pit of my stomach when I think about him, and it's what makes me not feel like eating or sleeping or going about life in my normal cheer. And I know it's a spiritual fight inside - but I don't want any more of it. It is getting better, it's not as bad as 2 months ago.

One day at a time. I know one day I'll be ok. :hug:

Thank you.

bat
Mar 10th 2008, 02:33 AM
Thank-you Clayjar, this is where I am at, in your words, "I mean, I feel sad when I think of friends or family members who are not saved, but that grief was different to this horrible feeling - and I knew it's because I wanted him so badly to be saved, not only for him, but so that I could stay with him. I wanted my way instead of God's way. God was telling me, this is not your job, walk away." I continue to pray for his salvation and to possibly come back to us. It is difficult to let him go after 5 years. I often wonder the purpose of us getting together, what was God's plan in that, then I think about me turning to Christ and finding my way, which I am very thankful for, but letting go of the man is still very heart-wrenching. Thank-you all for being out there in cyberspace to also let me know that I am not alone in this.:hug:

Befaithful
Mar 10th 2008, 04:17 AM
Bat I do not think it was God's plan for you to be with that man, not at all. Listen to what you wrote.


... I am 39 years old, have a wonderful 9 year old son and was engaged to a nonchristian. I was not walking the Christian life, we were living together, he was great with my son and myself, for almost 3 years. I knew he didn't really believe and I ignored it, thinking that eventually he would. :bible:

The Lord loves you so much, he would not set you up for failure and he does not go against His word. He would not put you in a relationship with an unbeliever and have you live with him.

When you are writing things down and thinking things through... Please make sure you are telling yourself the truth.

I am praying that you will draw closer to Jesus during this trying time...he will restore you heal you he loves you so much. Much more then my words can describe. You know when the Lord talks to us he says beautiful things to our heart. He calls us names like my beloved. Sometimes it is like I can hear him say my precious daughter...

He loves us with an everlasting love. It will never end. His love is so big for us that its measurement is infinite. He wants a personal relationship with us. Isnt that cool. I remember the first time I really heard that. I thought the creator of the universe wants a relationship with me. Wow.

Everyday...he wants to spend time with us. I know the plans I have for you saith the Lord; plans to bless you, not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.

His word is truth Bat. His words are the words we can live by. They do not change. His tender mercies are fresh and new every morning. He will never leave us nor forsake us. Never. It is a promise.:hug:

bat
Mar 10th 2008, 05:02 PM
I do understand that God doesn't want me to be unequally yoked. What I don't understand is why this man was placed in my life at all. Is everything we experience in life part of God's plan?:confused He knows everything we do before we do it? Again, I am immature in my relationship with God and don't understand a lot of things, but I am on my way.

God Bless you all :saint:

RoadWarrior
Mar 10th 2008, 06:21 PM
I do understand that God doesn't want me to be unequally yoked. What I don't understand is why this man was placed in my life at all. Is everything we experience in life part of God's plan?:confused He knows everything we do before we do it? Again, I am immature in my relationship with God and don't understand a lot of things, but I am on my way.

God Bless you all :saint:

Hi bat,

Things come into our lives because we live in the world, and things are the way they are. I don't see God micro-managing our lives. I also see that many things happen because of the enemy of God. Satan is always seeking to trip us up. Our job is to learn to discern how to make wise choices, in all things.

You might like to read a thread I have started in New in Christ, called "Who is Satan?" This was research I did early in my Christian walk, and it has shaped my understanding of the world since that time.

ClayJar
Mar 10th 2008, 11:04 PM
I do understand that God doesn't want me to be unequally yoked. What I don't understand is why this man was placed in my life at all. Is everything we experience in life part of God's plan?:confused He knows everything we do before we do it? Again, I am immature in my relationship with God and don't understand a lot of things, but I am on my way.

God Bless you all :saint:
Hi Bat

The answer to both questions is Yes. And I think you know why :) - you said so yourself that without this happening, you wouldn't have gotten closer to God.

I know how you feel. On one hand I knew that God didn't want for me to be unequally yoked, yet on the other hand when the pain's so unbearable I keep questioning WHY I even met the guy in the first place. Did you see my old posts in this thread when I wrote about how I couldn't imagine Why I was going through this... I still have moments of this.. yet I recognise that they're an expression of just my Feelings - because my Head of course, knew the answer -
(1) I knew from the start that I was wanting my way, and I underestimated the consequences of that - I underestimated the extent of damage, hurt, regret and pain caused because I did not trust God enough to obey Him from the start.
(2) It's my fault that I'm suffering the consequences of sin. It's Also true to say that at the same time, God allowed Satan to tempt and 'get a hold' of me (but only for a while :)) - it doesn't mean that 'God is bad' and it doesn't mean that I am any less to blame for choosing to disobey (and getting myself hurt in the process). Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis shows that the devil uses our weaknesses to try and lure us away from God (just like how Jesus got tempted in the desert or how Job suffered at Satan's hands) BUT God is totally in control and that His purpose/sovereign plan is being carried out - That is our assurance! As Paul said in Romans, all things happen for the good of those who love Him.

A wise friend told me recently, that beyond this wilderness of life's hard terrain is the Promised Land - but first we have to get through the wilderness. A lot of the things we go through, we don't understand WHY we have to go through until Years later, sometimes we never do really find out why - but we Will when Jesus returns.

Every trial / test of faith that we go through in life is an Opportunity for us to 'find' God again.. and God lets us go through these trials in order to strengthen our trust in Him ie, build a closer relationship with Him - because He Knows that it's the One Thing that will Save us. I recognise now just what Jesus really did for me and I'll never take it for granted again!! So even though I'm suffering, I know I'm doing so because God Really LOVES me. And He kept His promise - He never left nor forsook me - you'll never be alone in that wilderness! :hug:

ClayJar
Mar 10th 2008, 11:07 PM
It's funny whenever I think of the guy scoffing at Christianity - he thinks people turn to religion as a means of security or comfort to get through life, instead of facing the truth of life itself. I tried to tell him that Christianity IS the light that shows the truth, for Jesus said that He is the Way (to God), the Truth and the Life. He is Everything. Security (and peace and joy etc etc) are all byproducts, Responses, to Knowing the way, the truth and the life, ie Jesus. But he doesn't get that.

Bat, I know how you miss him and how you wish things could be different. Five years IS a long time and I want to let you know how strong you are in yielding the guy over to God's hands - yet God knows we're all unable to do anything on our own strength - keep trusting in Him, God himself will put HIS strength IN you, and He will keep strengthening you over time to get through the pain. His strength is sufficient! God knows more than anyone else how hard it is for us when we let go of something and give it to Him. He KNOWS. And from personal experience, I can tell you that with each small painful step of faith we take towards Him, He responds with one huge leap towards us (that verse of faith the size of a tiny mustard seed can move mountains is so so true) - it's a promise He has always kept to me, and I know He will to you too.

Still praying for you, for me, for anyone currently struggling to let go of things to God

bat
Mar 11th 2008, 03:14 PM
:cry:Thank-you Clayjar for your insight. I am saddened that this relationship is coming to end, although I know it needs to happen. Please pray for me to keep turning towards God, I need his strength right now. The man in my life has decided to obtain an attorney to collect monies from me because he contributed to my(our) home. Please also continue to pray for this man, I know that God wants him as He wants all of us. :pray:


thank-you all

RoadWarrior
Mar 11th 2008, 03:19 PM
:cry:Thank-you Clayjar for your insight. I am saddened that this relationship is coming to end, although I know it needs to happen. Please pray for me to keep turning towards God, I need his strength right now. The man in my life has decided to obtain an attorney to collect monies from me because he contributed to my(our) home. Please also continue to pray for this man, I know that God wants him as He wants all of us. :pray:


thank-you all

Then bat, you need your own attorney, for the sake of fairness.

bat
Mar 11th 2008, 03:51 PM
Thank-you Roadwarrior, I was going to wait until I received any paperwork from his attorney, to see exactly what he is requesting.

Befaithful
Mar 11th 2008, 07:09 PM
Bat I am praying for you :pray::cry::pray::pray:

ClayJar
Mar 12th 2008, 11:32 AM
I am praying for you too Bat. I know how hard this is. I'm going through the hardest test of faith I've ever faced. I never knew how powerful your own stubborn emotions can be, I nearly fell away from God :(

24 days clear of all contact. Do all you physically can to stay away, even if emotionally you're not in the clear. I can't believe I have to resort to this! And yet, I know there is no other way because I still miss him. But I'm not ever going back - I'm too scared to go back.

The days feel long with no time to draw away from the hectic world when thoughts of him come; day and night, one day at a time. In a way, work is keeping me so busy it sometimes suppresses the emotional pain. Not healthy in the long run. I come home late exhausted and yet I just stare in the dark, and I keep praying, God, please help me. I don't want to put my trust in anything else but you. Don't leave me, I know you won't. Don't let me despair, I know the future you promise is better than what I can see. Keep Satan far from me! I don't want this burden any more.

bat
Mar 12th 2008, 01:02 PM
Clayjar,
:cry:I know your heartache. I cry when I think of a future without him, but I also think of the heartache that I would subject myself to with him. I also pray for God to take this burden from me, why can't I lay it at his feet and leave it there? I continue to pick it back up. I have had contact with this man, but I have stood my ground with God beside me, the man doesn't like it, he tries to debate with me. Sometimes I feel overpowered by his questions of "if there was a God, why are there children starving to death in third world countries?, they are just children. Why are kids abused?" I don't know what to tell him, I just stand firm and let him know that I believe because of my faith, in my heart. I continue to pray for him, that he would find Christ. :pray:

RoadWarrior
Mar 12th 2008, 03:13 PM
Something that helped me when I was battling against being in love with the wrong man - when thoughts of him would pop into my mind, I would quickly substitute the name of Jesus for the man's name. I'd start mentally telling Jesus how much I loved Him, how much He meant to me, and how thankful I was that He loved me.

It helped. Like any bad habit, the easiest and most effective way to eliminate it is to replace it. You do realize that he is a habit, don't you?

Like an addiction - it is habitual behavior that is reinforced by your brain releasing certain chemicals into your body. That's why your very body cries out for you to dwell on it. When you dwell, the chemicals are triggered. Vigorous exercise (like a brisk walk) will stimulate different chemicals, that the body will like just as much.

Changing the name in your thoughts from him to Him, shifts the association of the chemical release.

Okay that was a lot of technical information! :lol:

But dear hearts, it still takes time. My prayers are with you as you stand your ground. :hug:

bat
Mar 12th 2008, 05:19 PM
Thank-you RoadWarrior,
You are right, and I do know that he is an addiction, a habit. I will try that, substituting Jesus for him. Although, I also want him to find Christ, and I know that is his choice, how do I know if God wants me to witness to him, or 'to turn my back on him'. :confused Yesterday, I called him to discuss the lawyer thing and wanted to get things moving along, our conversation somehow led to God :saint:. He asking me how I know there is a God, "maybe there is something out there", our conversation ended with "I will talk to you later". When it resumed last night, he was a debater, as I presented in my last post. I emailed my pastor with the questions he had about starving children and child abuse. When I got a response, I emailed him to see if he was interested in what the pastor had to say, he said 'sure'. So I just forwarded the email to him, don't know what will happen. I am confused as to what my position should be, have been seeking the advice of my pastor as well as this thread.:dunno:

Bless you all

baxpack7
Mar 12th 2008, 08:59 PM
Hello Bat- I think that you've done a fine job by planting that seed. Now, just sit back and see if the seeds fall on fertile ground.Just continue to pray for him and then, who knows? I hope that this helps and that you have a God-blessed day!!!

RoadWarrior
Mar 12th 2008, 09:17 PM
Thank-you RoadWarrior,
You are right, and I do know that he is an addiction, a habit. I will try that, substituting Jesus for him. Although, I also want him to find Christ, and I know that is his choice, how do I know if God wants me to witness to him, or 'to turn my back on him'. :confused Yesterday, I called him to discuss the lawyer thing and wanted to get things moving along, our conversation somehow led to God :saint:. He asking me how I know there is a God, "maybe there is something out there", our conversation ended with "I will talk to you later". When it resumed last night, he was a debater, as I presented in my last post. I emailed my pastor with the questions he had about starving children and child abuse. When I got a response, I emailed him to see if he was interested in what the pastor had to say, he said 'sure'. So I just forwarded the email to him, don't know what will happen. I am confused as to what my position should be, have been seeking the advice of my pastor as well as this thread.:dunno:

Bless you all

Hi bat,

Where there is an opening you witness, as you did. Then you live a Godly life, and keep your relationship with God clean and holy. The very best witness is a truly Godly life, that shows a non-believer that serving God is more blessed and rewarding than serving Satan (or going their own way).

Most of all you need to be patient, and be willing for the situation to completely collapse. The hardest thing to do is to give up your own will in the situation and be willing for God's will be done.

Only if he turns to God in truth, and for God, will it be real. If he "goes through the motions" because he wants to keep you, it will not be real and in time it will collapse.

Take some time to search the scriptures for the places that tell you to "wait on the Lord".

I am praying for you also.

ClayJar
Mar 12th 2008, 09:48 PM
Something that helped me when I was battling against being in love with the wrong man - when thoughts of him would pop into my mind, I would quickly substitute the name of Jesus for the man's name. I'd start mentally telling Jesus how much I loved Him, how much He meant to me, and how thankful I was that He loved me.

It helped. Like any bad habit, the easiest and most effective way to eliminate it is to replace it. You do realize that he is a habit, don't you?

Like an addiction - it is habitual behavior that is reinforced by your brain releasing certain chemicals into your body. That's why your very body cries out for you to dwell on it. When you dwell, the chemicals are triggered. Vigorous exercise (like a brisk walk) will stimulate different chemicals, that the body will like just as much.

Changing the name in your thoughts from him to Him, shifts the association of the chemical release.

Okay that was a lot of technical information! :lol:

But dear hearts, it still takes time. My prayers are with you as you stand your ground. :hug:

Thank you.
Yes. I recognise that it's an addiction - I'm going through the cold turkey phase now - it has its ups and downs. Sorry, last night was just a down moment.

Now I'm having a moment of clarity: I remember a friend telling me once, "when I tell you Not to think about a pink elephant, what are you thinking about??"
Haha. That's why I know I'm never going to be able to Will myself to stop missing him, to get over it, to stop thinking about him. I have to Substitute the thoughts of him with thoughts of God. That's a good tip: replacing the guy in my thoughts with Him who loves me. I will remember that!

Thank you for reminding me of the verse:

"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." (Romans 12:2)

His Word is really the best therapy - because it heals not just our minds but saves our soul.

Thank you Roadwarrior :hug:

ClayJar
Mar 12th 2008, 10:08 PM
Hello Bat- I think that you've done a fine job by planting that seed. Now, just sit back and see if the seeds fall on fertile ground.Just continue to pray for him and then, who knows? I hope that this helps and that you have a God-blessed day!!!
Dear Jeff
I remember when you first told me this (at the start of the thread), I remember thinking, I CAN'T sit back! That's too hard! SURELY God wants me to keep evangelising...

And you know what, I did my best but I was doing it for the wrong reason. And I ended up pushing him away from Christianity instead. I pray that God forgives me for this, and I know He is the only one that can do anything about his salvation. I keep having to remind myself that God loves him more than I do. It's true what Roadwarrior said that the best witness is to live in a Godly way, prioritising our walk with the Lord. I completely understand now that when we make God our first love, we will be able to love others MORE (because our witness of a Godly life will attract them to Christianity). Nonchristians don't really get this, they find it offensive in fact. I know he did.

I know that I really have to give him up to God and I am sitting back now :) I want to turn to God and not look back. Please pray that I stay there!! Thank you :hug:

bat
Mar 13th 2008, 12:12 AM
I am praying for you right now Clayjar, as well as for myself.:pray:

baxpack7
Mar 13th 2008, 02:02 AM
And I will continue to pray for you both(pray for me too-we all could use it) God bless!

bat
Mar 14th 2008, 01:13 AM
:pray:Prayers for all of my friends here on this thread. Today was a good day, the amazing sun was shining, my beautiful son enjoyed being able to play outside, it was a wonderful day!:ppThank-you all for your prayers.:hug:

Befaithful
Mar 20th 2008, 02:29 AM
:pp:pp:pphappy for you bat.

ClayJar
Mar 24th 2008, 06:35 PM
Dear friends
It's 5am where I am and I have been awake for the past 3 hours unable to sleep. I feel like Satan is attacking me. I have cried, I have prayed - I took time off away from work this easter holiday because the stress was getting to me and yet I know that the normal pressures of work would usually never get to me like this but for the spiritual struggle that I am going through. Why does Satan attack like this at night? Maybe it's because our minds are at our most tired and weakest.

I haven't been back to him. I haven't seen him. I haven't called him. For me this is the only way to 'slay the beast'. But I think I'm going crazy. I feel I can't go on like this. I don't know how I can live life with this burden of missing someone even though I know I can't ever go back - I don't even Want to go back - and yet, I feel this way.

I have never been this out of control of myself. God feels far away sometimes, even though I know He hears every word I cry. I long for His voice - to drown out my thoughts, to drown out this nightmare. This is death of something I want so badly. Laying it at Jesus' feet. Others struggle to let go of other things, money, ambition? - mine is this relationship. Nothing else in life thus far has been this hard. What is that one thing you feel you can't live without - that's your idol - letting it go - you never expect the pain and agony in putting your will to death. Please God, give me your strength to do this! Please God.

This easter holiday I have kept myself surrounded with church, family, friends - to remind myself of Truth. I spent solitary hours just seeking solace from Him. And every time I think of what happened at the cross I just want to cry until I am nothing, collapse into myself and then explode into tiny pieces into His light. I don't know why He LOVES but He does! Why doesn't the whole world Get this I don't know! The fact that I know and feel this must be because of Him. Father, I thank you. In this desolation, please remind me you are still in control. God, capture my every thought, drown them in the knowledge of you, for you Are Love. No man can do this for me. Please pray, pray, pray! For I am afraid and I am weary.

ClayJar
Mar 24th 2008, 06:41 PM
I know this will take time. May He sustain us.
:hug: for every person out there reading this and struggling to submit their will to God's. May you fix your eyes on the cross, and the Truth of Nothing but Christ alone - every time the darkness engulfs you

RoadWarrior
Mar 24th 2008, 06:45 PM
Dear friends
It's 5am where I am and I have been awake for the past 3 hours unable to sleep. I feel like Satan is attacking me. I have cried, I have prayed - I took time off away from work this easter holiday because the stress was getting to me and yet I know that the normal pressures of work would usually never get to me like this but for the spiritual struggle that I am going through. Why does Satan attack like this at night? Maybe it's because our minds are at our most tired and weakest.

....Please pray, pray, pray! For I am afraid and I am weary.

Early in my Christian walk, I realized that about 2 am was Satan's favorite time to accuse me. As I gained victory, I realized that 3:33 am was God's favorite time to call me to Himself. To this day, if I wake up and see the digital clock with 3:33 on it, I get up and spend some time with the Lord.

Why? I don't know, it just worked out that way.

I ache for your pain, my sister! :pray::pray::pray: But continue trust in God and cast yourself upon Him. He will see you through this time.

ClayJar
Mar 24th 2008, 06:52 PM
Thank you Roadwarrior. It's nearly time for me to get ready to get to work. I don't know how I'm going to get through the day without any sleep.
I will keep trusting...

I hope Bat is ok. Bat I just prayed for you.

RoadWarrior
Mar 24th 2008, 07:04 PM
Thank you Roadwarrior. It's nearly time for me to get ready to get to work. I don't know how I'm going to get through the day without any sleep.
I will keep trusting...

I hope Bat is ok. Bat I just prayed for you.


CJ, I will pray for your endurance, and for a peace that passes all understanding.

God's Child
Mar 31st 2008, 11:38 PM
Hey ClayJar and everyone,

I just wanted to thank you for sharing your experience here. You have helped me and im sure a lot of people as well, by describing exactly the torment we go through in similar situations, the thoughts we think, the feelings..its nice to know that we are all having the same tribulations..i was blaming myself so much for what i ve been going through, and now i know we all have weaknesses, and God is ALWAYS faithful, giving us strenghth and guiding us on His path.
also sharing this is a good way to expose Satan's attacks on us..they are so similar!..
I want to share this story and hopefully get you opinion about it.
I have met this guy 5 years ago..we were just friends, although he wanted more..i was a new believer back then, and i was very categorical with him. i explained that we have different religious beliefs, and tried to tell him how having a relationship with Jesus is the center of my life..He didnt understand..anyway, i decided to remain at a distant friendship with him, until he left the country..
Before he left, he told me that he was married, but separated from his wife, and into divorce procedures..i didnt trust him all that time, and that just came to prove me right..
Anyway, after 1 year of him leaving to work abroad, he calls me and tells me he is still thinking about me, and that he separated from his wife, and he thinks we should be in a relationship..he wants to come back, he wants me to visit..at first i was just talking to him casually, not trusting him at all..then something happened, and i think its a spiritual attack, i started to get attached to him..he made me feel cared for, he talked very gently, he said all the right things,..
I was also going through rough circumstances, and wanted to leave where i was, i wanted to get away for a while..so he was the perfect solution..and i started telling him again about Jesus..and how we could not have a future together if he doesnt share my beliefs, and my love to Jesus..In the middle of it all, God gave me a dream that was soo clear, showing me that this guy was pretending to be like me, but eventually he will try to drown me (spiritual death). the next day, i got a call from his wife. apparently he told her about me, the plans we were talking about, and unlike what he said, they are not separated.i sent him an email telling him not to call me anymore, for "personal reasons". He kept sending me emails and messages for a year. After a year (now), he came back here, and he sent me a message.i ran into him by mistake, and we talked.He said he is getting a divorce, and that he would do anything to be with me.i told him about Jesus again, but briefly.then i spoke with my pastor,who told me not to open doors to this guy,and that God will take care of him, its not my responsibility to convet him. so i told him that i cant speak to him anymore,and i wished for him to know jesus, to read the bible, to search for him..he said he is willing to come to church, and he wants to know what im talking about.but i feel that he is using this just to get to me.
My dilemma is: i dont want to keep any door open between us, because its creating a spiritual bondage, just like the "poison" u described.
at the same time i want him to be saved. i feel guilty that he is sending me emails,asking about guidance, and im not replying because i feel he might be just using this to keep contact with me,,,after all he is NOT a believer, and Satan IS using him persistantly to draw me away from God.

I appreciate your help, what do you think i should do?
i dont want to be trapped again, or get into a circular debate with him..i want to be faithful to God, and just block his emails, but i feel guilty at the same time, becoz he is reaching out and im not helping him find Jesus..
God had told me the other day "I can do it". it means that He can take care of Him..
i just dont feel i have really show him the path.

RoadWarrior
Mar 31st 2008, 11:53 PM
...
I appreciate your help, what do you think i should do?
i dont want to be trapped again, or get into a circular debate with him..i want to be faithful to God, and just block his emails, but i feel guilty at the same time, becoz he is reaching out and im not helping him find Jesus..
God had told me the other day "I can do it". it means that He can take care of Him..
i just dont feel i have really show him the path.

Hi God's Child, and welcome to this thread. ClayJar will hopefully step in and answer, but in the meantime, let me encourage you to do the right thing.

You already know what the right thing is. God has shown you in the dream, He has told you that the work is His and not yours. Your pastor has confirmed this. It is the flesh and the enemy whose voice you are hearing that makes you feel guilty for "not doing enough" to tell this man about Jesus. The man is not what he appears - not a poor lost sinner who needs God. He is an agent of the devil.

Block the emails, nail the door shut. Do not let this man get into your life. Run! You are in danger.

:hug:

God's Child
Apr 1st 2008, 10:45 AM
thank you Roadwarrior, you said exactly what i need to hear.
I did block the emails, and i felt peace from God about it. Im still feeling i want to help him, although i think he is manipulating me into keeping contact with him.Its not important anyway, i just want to obey God and be faithful to Him.
Its true that even keeping the smallest contact is a door to spiritual warfare.I feel spiritually lifted and refreshed, although its just a small decision i made.God knows what's best for me, and i know He will take care of everything else.I trust Him.

Glad to have found this site, i just joined after reading your posts,..:) actually, because i was confused about what to do, i asked God to show me on the internet, so i typed in my question to Him, and one of the websites was this page..God Is Faithful and He will guide us always..
thank you for your help, Be blessed :)

RoadWarrior
Apr 1st 2008, 03:31 PM
I am glad that my words were beneficial! :hug: This seems like a "small decision" to you - but it is huge. Have you ever seen one of those cartoons where the door-to-door salesman has his foot in the door, and the homeowner can't shut the door to keep him out? That is how it is. He gets a foot in the door, and his strength is greater than the homeowner. Soon the salesman is in the house and you can only get rid of him by buying whatever he is selling. (Unless someone else comes along and throws him out.)

But if you have given him permission to be there, then the only one who can throw him out is you. Believe me, it is much easier to never let him get his foot in the door in the first place.

Have you heard this saying, "Sin will take you farther than you want to go, keep you longer than you want to stay, and cost you more than you want to pay."

God says it this way:
Ge 4:6 So the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." NKJV

Notice that the word desire is in there. The reason that we women are vulnerable to wicked men, is that we have a desire to love and be loved. So this man comes to you with a plaintive plea that he needs to be loved. It is the oldest trick in the book. He plays on your desire to be kind and to help. Then he pretends that he might accept your Jesus, if only you will come closer - but closer in directly into his trap.

You are in my prayers, that you will lock the doors, keep them locked, and that God will grant you discernment to recognize who this really is.








thank you Roadwarrior, you said exactly what i need to hear.
I did block the emails, and i felt peace from God about it. Im still feeling i want to help him, although i think he is manipulating me into keeping contact with him.Its not important anyway, i just want to obey God and be faithful to Him.
Its true that even keeping the smallest contact is a door to spiritual warfare.I feel spiritually lifted and refreshed, although its just a small decision i made.God knows what's best for me, and i know He will take care of everything else.I trust Him.

Glad to have found this site, i just joined after reading your posts,..:) actually, because i was confused about what to do, i asked God to show me on the internet, so i typed in my question to Him, and one of the websites was this page..God Is Faithful and He will guide us always..
thank you for your help, Be blessed :)

God's Child
Apr 4th 2008, 10:17 PM
Hi Roadwarrior,
thank you for your help.Actually i have received another email from him from a different email address (he usually has 3). so im coming back here to read what you wrote.it helps to read through these again. I dont know why its hard to let go, especially when u feel the person is honest.but again i heard the Lord tell me that i should cut off all contact, and thats what im doing. Maybe i just need someone in my life, although when i think about it i just cant imagine myself with anyone. i dont know why that is, but i feel that i have an issue with relationships and intimacy, and with him i feel safe, he seems familiar to me.
i guess maybe thats whats making it hard to let go.... anyway, it helps to read through the posts again..and i give this issue to Jesus. He will take care of it im sure.I will just obey what i feel the holy spirit telling me to do.and i trust God will do the rest.
thank you for your prayers, :hug:

RoadWarrior
Apr 4th 2008, 10:31 PM
Hi Roadwarrior,
thank you for your help

...

anyway, it helps to read through the posts again..and i give this issue to Jesus. He will take care of it im sure.I will just obey what i feel the holy spirit telling me to do.and i trust God will do the rest.
thank you for your prayers, :hug:


God's Child, thank you for checking in. This reminds me to pray for you! I know how hard it is to let go of someone. Especially if we are lonely, that is something which makes us vulnerable. The enemy of our souls is looking for that kind of vulnerability, so that he can exploit it.

Do you have a church family? Christian friends you spend time with? Do you have some favorite hobbies or pastimes that make you happy? It is very important to find good things in your life, to have balance and fulfillment in a variety of ways.

We are doing a study in Acts in the New In Christ forum, you are welcome to join us. We have just gotten started this week. Tanya makes the lessons easy, you can answer the questions in about 15 minutes. Being in the Word of God is a great help in protecting your vulnerabilities.

Check it out, see if it is something that you might enjoy.

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=120683

In the meantime, I am praying for the Lord to put a hedge between you and this man, that you will be protected from his attempts to get to you.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to pray for you.

pilgrim777
Apr 6th 2008, 03:57 PM
Hi Jar Of Clay I Have Just Linked Into This Forum To See If Anyone Had Anything To Say About This Subject. I Have Read Your Messages And Am Blown Away Because I Am Going Through The Exact Same Thing ....i Have Everyone Praying For His Salvation And I Was Wondreing If Anyone Had Any Positive Testimonies To This Effect...the Situation Is Awful And I Have Many Unanswered Questions As Yet

RoadWarrior
Apr 6th 2008, 04:02 PM
Hi Jar Of Clay I Have Just Linked Into This Forum To See If Anyone Had Anything To Say About This Subject. I Have Read Your Messages And Am Blown Away Because I Am Going Through The Exact Same Thing ....i Have Everyone Praying For His Salvation And I Was Wondreing If Anyone Had Any Positive Testimonies To This Effect...the Situation Is Awful And I Have Many Unanswered Questions As Yet

It is always good to ask people to pray for an unsaved loved one. But keep in mind that we are not to be unequally yoked, and a true and fulfilling marriage can not be had between a believer and an unbeliever.

Are you married to this person? Or considering it?

pilgrim777
Apr 6th 2008, 04:39 PM
I Called The Wedding Off 4 Days Before The Big Event... I Have A Long History With Him...i Am In Business With Him So I Have To See Him And We Are Very Much In Love I Have Stopped Evangelising Verbally And Begun To Do It In Other Ways. I Totally Agree With All That I Have Read...but One Thing Is Concerning Me With All Of This....why Is It That Not One Of These People Are Being Saved...??????? There Is Something Thta Feels Wrong With This Picture...satan Is Defeated And There Has To Be At Least One Who Gets Saved....hope There Has To Be...

RoadWarrior
Apr 6th 2008, 04:54 PM
I Called The Wedding Off 4 Days Before The Big Event... I Have A Long History With Him...i Am In Business With Him So I Have To See Him And We Are Very Much In Love I Have Stopped Evangelising Verbally And Begun To Do It In Other Ways. I Totally Agree With All That I Have Read...but One Thing Is Concerning Me With All Of This....why Is It That Not One Of These People Are Being Saved...??????? There Is Something Thta Feels Wrong With This Picture...satan Is Defeated And There Has To Be At Least One Who Gets Saved....hope There Has To Be...

I cannot answer as to why "these people" are not being saved. Although I think it is because they are already following the god they prefer. The only way such a person will change sides, is by the work of the Holy Spirit. My impression is that we tend to interefere with the process. We decide we want this, and ask God to bless it. This is backwards. We need to ask God what He wants, and join Him.

As long as we try to make things happen in our own strength and wilfullness, we are working in the flesh and not in the Spirit.

Your lifestyle before him (and the world at large) needs to be a witness of the truth of Christ. This is the battleground where we all must fight, first, before we can venture out. God is the Commander, we are the foot soldiers. Too often we try to make it the other way 'round.

You did well to call off the wedding. Sometimes a man will agree to go to church with you, then after the wedding, he decides he doesn't really like church. Then you are stuck with a fraud as well as an unbeliever. Such a man deceives himself as well as the woman who loves him, and the marriage is then based on that deception. It's a hard thing to overcome.

I have also heard stories of women who suffered in such marriage for years, and the man finally came to the Lord after she died. Would you be willing to lay down your life, your whole life, on that possibility?

pilgrim777
Apr 6th 2008, 06:43 PM
very true salvation is the work of the holy spirit. I was in this relationship when i came back to Jesus..I had been backslidden for a long time. So in effect we where together in unbelief for best part of the relationship. God called me back latterly. I have heard stories of women in christian marriages that are sometimes worse than 'worldly' marraiges I don't neccessarily believe that being a 'christian' makes for perfection. However I do believe that God can work on the heart of a believing Christian in a way that must be easier than in a unbeliever... conviction of sin as an eg. The man in my life has never pretended to be interested in God to manipulate me or otherwise. His approach to the afterlife is there is''nt one. He has said he will believe in God if he has proof. common statement!!! He claims he has asked for that proof and none has been forthcoming. Maybe he is truthful maybe not I cannot see his heart only God can do this. I am 43 never been married and have tried dating some christian men and as yet have not been in love with any. Due to my age I have some considerable experience of this common problem that is obvious where ever you go. There are many christian men and women who have prayed for God to bring them a partner and are still single and now almost past the age where they can have children and still non has come. There are also more christian women than men..you see this in every fellowship you go to. Or the women are saved and their husbands are not...I have faith perhaps you will say misguided that God can change all this..his will is that non shall perish..all should have eternal life. That he will give us the desires of our hearts...many of these men/women pray fervently for the salvation of loved ones and scriptually are praying the will of God. There is the issue of free will and yes all to often many prefer to live without God... I believe it is they who are decieving themselves and not aiming to decieve the prospective partner. They are blind and do not have the revelation that by the grace of God believers have.. we were all once part of this deception...and for some reason God has chosed us to impart this wonderful revelation of himself and Jesus as our one and only salvation. The difficulty lies in knowing what is part of Gods plan and what is not and only prayer and supplication can bring this revelation and understanding to us. Striving to break free of something without God is sheer desparation and as doomed to failure as staying in a relationship with an unbeliever who is never going to be saved...how do we know if they are never going to be saved..is the material question!!! If I thought my life fraught with difficulties would lead to his eventual salvation then my heart would rejoice that he was eternally free from the pit of hell. Surely the salvation of another soul is the fundamental point of this entire life on earth. Christ laid down his life for us...am I willing to lay it down for another....what do you suggest I answer to that. I do not know what the answer is to all of this...I know that God loves me and my unbelieving partner more than I love them....and I have to have faith in Gods word and his power to set the captives free...I often wonder where I would have been had someone not been moved by the holy spirit to pray for me...I laid my partner on the alter and gave him up as a sacrifice...I have done this a few times now but eventually I take him back..it is very hard to tell someone you love who is as broken as you that you cannot be with them....I used to get very frustrated with him that he could not see things...but now I am more merciful...he cannot see and understand because he is still blind..as Jesus said 'forgive them for they know not what they do'... perhaps it is the way of agape that is needed unconditional love...perhaps it is plain denial and he is never going to be saved and I am deluded and heading for disaster....how can one tell which is the right path, what does God want me to do with the unbelieving soul whom I love. I think of Hosea, and David and Bathsheeba....and the fact in Pslam 51 in which God states he does not delight in our sacrifices but our hearts.....So you ask what does God desire well so far I believe the same thing as I salvation for all....perhaps you are right and I am somehow interfering with Gods process ...how to know this besides pray and wait on God for direction is all I know what to do right now. My partner and I had planned to grow old together...we are not having a teenage crush.. we are talking peoples lives and beyond. My desire is to do Gods will I love my partner dearly but I do love my Father in heaven more...I would be desolate without him...why do I feel condemed for loving someone who just happens to be unsaved... there is no condemnation in Christ..but other christians usually married ones make you feel as if its a cardinal sin and a hopeless situation. I read your forum in the hope that I would find positive testimonies of salvation....there is hope don't misunderstand me...I see hope and growth and I praise God for those but none of salvation. this has made me feel sad....very sad.

RoadWarrior
Apr 6th 2008, 06:59 PM
I understand that sadness. :hug:

As it happens, I am married to a man who is not a believer. I was not walking with the Lord at the time we married, and to be honest with you I am not sorry we married. He is a good man, and we have a good life together. We were both older when we met (in our fifties) and we have occasionally made a joke that we ran out of other potential partners.

We share a few common interests, but we lack the spiritual sharing. He does not keep me from going to church, or from being active in Bible studies and women's ministry. We just don't share that part of my life.

My approach is to live the most Godly life possible, and to leave his soul in the hands of the Lord. People have quoted to me the bit about him being saved by having a Godly wife. I don't know whether I believe it will work that way, it would be nice if it does. But I do know that I am not God, and can only walk my life to the best of my ability. I trust that God will take care of the rest.

I have sons, nephews, and grandchildren who also are not walking with the Lord. I do not love them less because of it, and there again I trust them into the hands of the Lord.

So I do not give the advice I do lightly, or from a perspective of bitterness and regret. I give it from the perspective of what the Bible teaches. It sounds to me as if you two are already yoked, and have been for some time. If I am right, going through a marriage ceremony is merely a ritual that gives you social and financial protection for the situation you are already in.

The most important thing you can do is to keep seeking the Lord, and His will in this matter. What He tells you is much more important than what I or anyone else might tell you.

What was your reason for cancelling the wedding plans? Did you do it because the Lord said so, or because well-meaning Christian friends said so?

pilgrim777
Apr 6th 2008, 07:54 PM
Its a funny story really. I through him came back to the Lord. He had met an old friend who had told him that she had found God..which surprised him greatly and he was telling me this.At the mention of God on this occassion I for some reason felt my spirit leap and I thought God ah yes My God I had forgotten about him....this is ironic really as my father is a born again reverend and my mother and stepfather are solid in the Lord, but for some reason it was this conversation which triggered off my walk with the Lord again..and he knows this. I continued in the relationship for some months without internal conflict but gradually as my walk intensified I felt convicted that I should not be having a sexual relationship outside of marriage...not because of any legalistic sentiment but because I wanted to honour God... I prayed about this and the fact that my partner is an unbeliever and as I was unsure of what God really wanted from me I told God that I would suggest marriage to my partner (as we had never talked about it and he seemed strongly against marriage I was expecting a response that would be negative) and if I got the expected negative response I would take it as a sign that I should walk away. I did raise the issue of marriage and he jumped at the opportunity saying he would not want to marry anyone else and had never wanted to ..i know this to be a true statement as I have known him many years and he is 47. We began to make preparations straight away. I continued to pray as did all available Christians I know....but 4 days before the wedding my peace had gone altogether... he had recently gone through bankruptcy and was having a moderate breakdown. We split up then got back together and again the same thing... eventually I said to the Lord please I cannot do this without you I just give it all to you and I placed my partner on the alter and sacrificed my relationship to God. This time I initially found it easy and just threw myself onto God and grew and grew in my relationship with him...further than I have ever been before....so wonderful.. but recently I have taken my partner back it is as if we are two halfs of one another. There are problems. but the funny thing is there is also progress. Through this situation it has caused me to throw myself on Jesus and cleave to him I have learnt and grown quickly and deeply...in my sin I have a choice do I hide from God in my shame and weakness and listen to the accusing voice of the enemy or do I face God and through myself at his feet and plead his mercy and grace over me...I can do nothing without him and am nothing without him...I have come to learn of his never ending love for me..of his grace and that he knew my flaws and my downfalls before time began and he still chose me as one of his own...I have been drawn to study the way of agape and I have changed so much ...all this whilst in the middle of the situation I have already told you about. Also there is a christian woman who I have known in passing for the last 6 years and we both are in the same situation and God has brought us together in a powerful way and we have begun to pray and support each other massively...we have started a pray night for just us two to get before the Lord and seek his face and to set aside time of real prayer for our unsaved partners...it is so wonderful...so I am not sure what is happening but I know that God is doing something his word never returns void.....but yes other christians have mixed comments etc but I do wish they would be less judgemental...but I have to say some have been very supportive and are joining us in prayer at out house group

RoadWarrior
Apr 6th 2008, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the background, this is useful information. It sounds like you are doing some things right, and maybe some things wrong, but having a prayer partner (and other praying Christians) will lead you to the right thing in the end.

Few of us are sufficiently perfect to judge one another, but that doesn't stop some of us from doing it. I've heard it said that Christians are the only army where they shoot their wounded ... I never want that to be true of me. Most of us are wounded, or scarred from old wounds. Healing is more important that judgment.

It is my view that God tests our faith not to see if we will fail, but to help us see where we need to grow. I rejoice that you are back in your walk with the Lord. You are in my prayers as well. Who knows, maybe the Lord wants to save both of these men!

karenoka27
Apr 8th 2008, 02:48 PM
Hi Roadwarrior,
thank you for your help.Actually i have received another email from him from a different email address (he usually has 3). so im coming back here to read what you wrote.it helps to read through these again. I dont know why its hard to let go, especially when u feel the person is honest.but again i heard the Lord tell me that i should cut off all contact, and thats what im doing. Maybe i just need someone in my life, although when i think about it i just cant imagine myself with anyone. i dont know why that is, but i feel that i have an issue with relationships and intimacy, and with him i feel safe, he seems familiar to me.
i guess maybe thats whats making it hard to let go.... anyway, it helps to read through the posts again..and i give this issue to Jesus. He will take care of it im sure.I will just obey what i feel the holy spirit telling me to do.and i trust God will do the rest.
thank you for your prayers, :hug:

Just wanted to let you know that I just read all that you have been going through and I am keeping you in prayer. RoadWarrior has given some excellent and godly advice. I am praying that you will surround yourself with other Christians who can support you and encourage you. It is so important and we need each other to walk alongside with.

Has anyone heard from ClayJar? I noticed they haven't posted since March 24th...hope everything is ok...

ClayJar
Apr 9th 2008, 04:11 AM
I cannot answer as to why "these people" are not being saved. Although I think it is because they are already following the god they prefer. The only way such a person will change sides, is by the work of the Holy Spirit. My impression is that we tend to interefere with the process. We decide we want this, and ask God to bless it. This is backwards. We need to ask God what He wants, and join Him.

As long as we try to make things happen in our own strength and wilfullness, we are working in the flesh and not in the Spirit.

...

The most important thing you can do is to keep seeking the Lord, and His will in this matter. What He tells you is much more important than what I or anyone else might tell you.


Roadwarrior, Karen
I'm here. I've been reading every post here and praying for each person who wrote in. Sometimes as I'm reading I can't help but think, Satan you couldn't have been just a bit more original could you - striking us at the heart of our weakness.. but I'm not going to let you win. No, correction, we are going to let God win this.

I haven't been writing in because I'm ashamed. Partly because other people's struggles are so much harder - but I know each of our walks with God will have their own challenges. But also because I haven't had the strength to stay away...

I took a day off after that day when I last wrote in - the insomnia and the grief took a toll on me and I spent the day in bed completely exhausted. I got angry as well - that I'd let a mere human Get to me like this. No one but God deserves so much of me and I vowed Never to stray from Him again.

And what do you think happened the next day when I got back to work? Yup, you guessed it. I have to bump into him on the street again. 40 days since I'd last saw him. I was just laughing inside - 40 days in the desert...?

At first it was just plain surprise. I know it sounds pathetic - 40 days doesn't sound like a long time, but each day had been torture to me and I know God was weaning me off the addiction. Anyway, for about half an hour of just talking, I told him how I'd been (miserable), and it was so emotionally charged. Then he said he had to go, and I said I hadn't finished talking to him, and he arranged another time to talk.

Then I went home. And prayed. I spoke to my mother. She prayed. I took my phone out and put in the words "I've thought more about it. I don't think it's a good idea for us to meet up." Dear friends, I DID NOT want to send this. I sat and cried and begged God please take over, you KNOW that I don't desire you here. PLEASE do this, please help me let go. Help me!

It took a LONG time that night for me to finally hit 'send'.
Oh the response! He came back with so much anger - How could I torture him like this? Why did I even bother talking to him? Why can't I ever keep my word - even just an agreed meeting to talk? etc... I keep apologising, that it is the internal struggle within me, not any desire to hurt him or being irresponsible with his feelings.

And something happened - as the charge of emotion drained away, to quote a good friend of mine, "Eventually the stars fall from your eyes." Let me backstep a bit:
This is a good man - honestly, a nonChristian woman would find nothing wrong in his character. Normally, it's reasonable to suggest that if you Know why you don't want to be with someone / that he isn't the one, you should be able to walk away. It is I, not him, who keeps saying no. But when there is nothing wrong with the relationship or the person BUT that the only thing is you KNOW he's not a Christian, that's HARD to let go! This is Satan here and nonchristians will never fully understand this.
I once heard in a sermon: What is that ONE thing (or in this case, Person) that you feel you can't live without if you didn't have it (him) or if God took away from you? - THAT is your idol.

Back to the stars falling from my eyes. As we were talking on the phone (this is almost 2 in the morning), I realised that my emotional vision had cleared - there is nothing wrong with him but yet Everything is Missing in him.. does that make sense? A man who does not have God in him, who does not know Him, or recognise the Need of Jesus' saving GRACE, who does not love the Lord with heart, mind, soul - there is nothing attractive there. I don't trust where his strength is coming from - what if it runs out? I don't want to rely on his word that he is ABLE. He thinks he is, he doesn't promise me he will Always love and be faithful to me (we both know there are no guarantees in life) - he's wiser than that, all he says is that he feels so much for me but I never gave him a chance to prove himself. But I want more. I need this from a man, "I've given my life, my very will for myself, to God and want to please Him with my life." Not proving himself to me but proving God with himself - I can trust such a man because if he fails me, he will see that he has failed God and I know God will be working His purpose in the man for good.

Why didn't I see that earlier? I realise something: It's the times when either of us does an emotional "I can't take this, don't talk to me anymore" that I become unhappy, remember only the good times and my mind starts convincing me that I'll never get over him. When I see him though, as long as he doesn't get affectionate physically, I can think clearly - I REMEMBER why I said no so many times before. And I'm beginning to see what is lacking in him because he doesn't love the Lord. I am NEVER going back to the hell I went through for the past half a year. And I realise that it is the converse for him: When he didn't see me, maybe out of experience from learning to get over past relationships, he Gets over me, he forgets me, he moves on.

I met him in the end. We talked. He said he missed talking to me - he asked if we could just be friends. I hesitated. A nonChristian friend once told me that the ultimate test for whether you can be friends with an ex is if they tell you that they're seeing someone else and you are TOTALLY OK with it. I imagined him with another woman, I keep reminding myself of the one week relationship he had with someone less than a month after the last time we spoke during the hiatus in December that prompted me to join this forum at the start of this year. And I looked at him and knew God had much much better in store if I let go of what I want. I said ok. I have met up with him several times since (at least 5 times), I admit, more times in less than a fortnight than 'normal' friends would.

People are discouraging me from it. I know I am exposing myself to temptation. I know it is unwise, that it is still too early to be friends. 40 days isn't a long LONG time. I know that it is when we think we are strong that we are weak. But I remember that when each emotional 'break-up' left me a wreck - maybe God knows I'm not strong enough? The 40 days of cold turkey is over - thank God for seeing me through that. Is seeing him the answer but I just have to be disciplined and keep reminding myself that I DON'T want the darkness and burden and PAIN of the emotional torment from the past?

There Is a battle still: here is one: for one of the days, he had asked me to a concert that he knew I loved. The night before, I packed a dress into my bag (to change out into after work). I knew the dress was revealing, I have seen the way guys have looked at me when I wore it (and I haven't worn it in Years). I ignored the little voice in my head that said No. I remembered that when a good guy friend of mine asked me to a concert a couple of months back, I went not caring what I was wearing. I had insomnia again that night - and I knew it was the small decisions like these that I had to keep obeying God in or I'd be done for in this 'friendship'. I closed my eyes, please God, let me sleep! The nagging feeling didn't go away. Again, like the tug of war of wills regarding the text message, I put myself to death again: please God help me obey! Please God, make me Not want to wear that dress. Please God, help me honour you in this relationship. You know what I want, please take over!! I Finally managed to get up and took thet dress out and hung it back in the wardrobe. 4am - I finally fell asleep.

This is where it is now. We enjoyed the concert, the dinner. And we kissed. I KNOW that I don't want this. I know that physical affection will lead to emotional bondage and then that's where I won't be able to hold on to God's voice - I want my will to stay grounded in Him, I want to become more like Christ.

I think the message I am sending out to him, and he KNOWS me: is that I still want him, but I can't because he's not a Christian. I messaged him the next morning that I feel guilty, because I know this is not right. He said we'll talk about it. Friends, I want to be able to stick to my guns about friendship. I want to tell him of what a minister I heard last week said on the subject: that the biblical behaviour to take is: apart from your spouse, anyone else of the opposite sex you are to treat as how you would your brother/sister. If he can't accept that or can't see that that is loving, I will have to walk away. Please pray for me because I am meeting him today. Please pray that God speaks instead of me.

RoadWarrior
Apr 9th 2008, 05:37 AM
Hi CJ,

Good to see you!

Thanks for posting ... no, it is not easier for one of us, than it is for another.

Desire is in us. It is part of the curse.

I am tired and I should be going to bed now, but I just checked in and read your message. I have to share this with you.

Get your Bible. Read Genesis 3:16. Look at what God told Eve would be the result of her yielding to the temptation of Satan. Where is her desire now? Who rules?

Then look at what God said to Cain. Genesis 4:7. Where is the desire in this scene? Who rules?

No it's not easy. There is no guarantee that you will succeed. Eve failed. Cain failed.

Where is your strength? Read Joshua 1:6, 7, 9. Be strong and of good courage. Read it. Soak in it.

Who is with you? The Holy Spirit is in you, Christ is in you, the hope of glory.

I woke from a dream a couple nights ago, a nighmare of sorts. But I was victorious because I kept repeating "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

Find it in your Bible. Read it. Soak in it.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

ClayJar
Apr 9th 2008, 10:58 PM
Roadwarrior
You are right. I failed, I'm not strong enough. I Really really failed. I'm back to square one. I cannot break free. Despite telling him how this is making me hate myself, yet on the other hand I was too weak to want him to stop. I know he doesn't love me! I know it. That hurts and hurts. He probably has no respect for me because I can't keep to my own convictions. I read the verses, even said them out and he listened... but the desire was much stronger - even asking God for His strength doesn't do it. I really can't break free!! I'm so wretched

RoadWarrior
Apr 9th 2008, 11:51 PM
Roadwarrior
You are right. I failed, I'm not strong enough. I Really really failed. I'm back to square one. I cannot break free. Despite telling him how this is making me hate myself, yet on the other hand I was too weak to want him to stop. I know he doesn't love me! I know it. That hurts and hurts. He probably has no respect for me because I can't keep to my own convictions. I read the verses, even said them out and he listened... but the desire was much stronger - even asking God for His strength doesn't do it. I really can't break free!! I'm so wretched

You have come to an excellent place. You have come to the end of yourself. "I can't." Take that to the Lord.

It will never be by your own strength.

Ps 94:17-19
17 Unless the Lord had been my help,
My soul would soon have settled in silence.
18 If I say, "My foot slips,"
Your mercy, O Lord, will hold me up.
19 In the multitude of my anxieties within me,
Your comforts delight my soul. NKJV

Ps 127:1-2
27 Unless the Lord builds the house,
They labor in vain who build it;
Unless the Lord guards the city,
The watchman stays awake in vain.
2 It is vain for you to rise up early,
To sit up late,
To eat the bread of sorrows;
For so He gives His beloved sleep. NKJV

Have you really come to the end of yourself? I have heard it said, that is when the Lord can take over. When you really really know you can't.

CJ, do you remember why you came to this forum in the first place? What is pushing you, or driving you? Why do you want to be free from this man? Why do you not just marry him? What is it that makes you fight against it?

Look inside yourself. Look for your motivation, to stay with him or to leave him. Your key to freedom is there.

Dear Abby used to say, are you better off with him or without him? That is a worldly question, but it is a valid one if it makes you truly look at the balance sheet of your life.

You are putting yourself through torture. Why are you doing this to yourself? You need to make a decision, a choice, and go with that decision.

God's Child
Apr 13th 2008, 09:26 PM
Hi Roadwarrior, and Clayjar,

Roadwarrior i want to thank you for your valuable advice you are giving all of us and the people who read this post.and thank you for your prayers.
My story has ended, with God's grace..and now i moved on completely..i dont even think about it anymore.

The last thing that happened is that he sent me a message. and i told him that i insist he wouldnt anymore, and that im serious, and that im sure that there is no future for us.and i was very firm.although i felt weak at first,but when i sent the message i felt relieved,because i felt God smiling on me :)..i had done the right thing,and it felt good.
i also wanted to thank you for posting the bible study group,i think i will join next week :)

Clayjar,thank you for this post.you have helped many people by describing what you are going through..i encourage you,take heart..God has given you a way out when as you said "the stars fell from your eyes" so try to go back to that..and be firm..dont even maintain friendship with this guy..Satan is wasting your time,and he is fierce..if you give him a small place in your life, he will take more and more space, until he has control..so do the right thing..you know in these times the war against us is very strong,and our relationship with God, and knowledge of the word, and obeying Him, are our only way to be safe..stay close to God..

Be blessed!

Roadwarrior, as your advice was vey helpful,i was wondering if i can ask you something else?its about a personal struggle, that has to do with ministry..
i dont know how to do that..do i post it here?or is it just specific to this question (i dont want to mix up subjects)..and if not where can i post to get a reply from you?
thanks a lot

RoadWarrior
Apr 13th 2008, 11:12 PM
GodsChild, I think the subject here quite naturally leads into "how do we do ministry if we are unequally yoked" so you may ask it here. If you post it here, then others can participate in the discussion, as I am sure it matters to many of us.

Or if you wish to do it privately, you can PM me.

SeekingGrace
Apr 14th 2008, 02:19 AM
I am also struggling with a somewhat similar situation. We where together 5 very rocky years. We broke up in January, didn't see each other for two weeks then began dating for awhile till I found the "other woman's" text messages in his phone, I called her and she knew who I was, then proceeded to tell me she had been with my boyfriend for the past 1 &1/2 years. I'm not going to go into anymore detail then that about the past relationship, I've forgiven him. I have been unable to let him go. We are friends. I was raised in the church but never really tried to develop a personal relationship with Chirst, till now. I know that I can't date or marry this man yet I continue to love him, and hope he will be saved so we can be together. I know how stupid that sounds but I can't help myself. I've prayed for help. I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to live without him even though I can't be with him. We talk every day. It tears me apart that he doesn't know, has never experienced real, true love. The kind that is God given. I feel so sorry for him, I am so sad. My heart is just breaking for him...for us. The past five years where horrible highlighted with some good times. I've made so many mistakes, I've sinned so much. I don't want to continue being friends with him if it is a sin. I'm also afraid he will lie to me again, hurt me again. I know most Christians would say, why torture yourself just dump him and run, pray for him... but I am just simply unable to do that. The very day I met this man I prayed for everything that he is. I prayed that the man I was to be with would have all the qualities this man has (of course i didn't think to pray for the qualities he wouldn't have). I also prayed he would help me become closer to God and would also become close to God himself, that we could grow together. I also prayed this man would help me develop more patience. I got what I prayed for and a whole lot I didn't. There are times I feel like no matter how bad this guy has treated me, he is the one for me. That he will be saved, he is going to be a Godly man and we are meant to be together. Then I get inpatient and just want to give up, I wonder if I really am doing what God wants me to do or am I just doing what I want to do. I really don't know, I bounce back and forth between the two. One minute sure of one then the other minute sure of the other. I dread reading the responses to this (if there are any) I'm so scared that I've been doing the wrong thing...again. I want to do God's will and if that means letting this man go I will even though right now I feel like letting that hope of him ever being saved go will kill me.

RoadWarrior
Apr 14th 2008, 02:56 AM
Hi SeekingGrace, and welcome to the thread! I am very sorry to hear the difficulties that you are facing. I want to give you hope, there is a way out of your darkness.

I am breaking your message up into paragraphs to make it easier to read and respond to.


I am also struggling with a somewhat similar situation. We where together 5 very rocky years. We broke up in January, didn't see each other for two weeks then began dating for awhile till I found the "other woman's" text messages in his phone, I called her and she knew who I was, then proceeded to tell me she had been with my boyfriend for the past 1 &1/2 years.


I'm not going to go into anymore detail then that about the past relationship, I've forgiven him. I have been unable to let him go. We are friends. I was raised in the church but never really tried to develop a personal relationship with Chirst, till now.


I know that I can't date or marry this man yet I continue to love him, and hope he will be saved so we can be together. I know how stupid that sounds but I can't help myself.


I've prayed for help. I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to live without him even though I can't be with him. We talk every day. It tears me apart that he doesn't know, has never experienced real, true love. The kind that is God given. I feel so sorry for him, I am so sad. My heart is just breaking for him...for us.


The past five years where horrible highlighted with some good times. I've made so many mistakes, I've sinned so much. I don't want to continue being friends with him if it is a sin. I'm also afraid he will lie to me again, hurt me again.

I'm afraid for you, that this is exactly what he will do. It has been my experience that men have a certain character, and that character does not really change, short of a transforming work of God. If it is habitual for a man to lie, cheat and deceive, he will always fall back on those things when he feels he needs to do that to protect himself, or protect his choices in life and lifestyle.


I know most Christians would say, why torture yourself just dump him and run, pray for him... but I am just simply unable to do that.
What happens to us women in these relationships is very much an addiction. Intimate relationship bonds a woman to a man. It is as if you have chains on your ankles and on your wrists, you are spiritually and emotionally chained to him. These chains cannot be broken by you. God can break the chains, but you have to turn to Him and let Him do it, or you will stay chained. You could cut off all contact and the chains would still be there, because they are in your mind, in your heart, in your spirit.



The very day I met this man I prayed for everything that he is. I prayed that the man I was to be with would have all the qualities this man has (of course i didn't think to pray for the qualities he wouldn't have). I also prayed he would help me become closer to God and would also become close to God himself, that we could grow together.

I'm not quite sure how to answer this, but I am reminded of an old saying, "Satan sends his best answer to our prayers before God sends His." This means that if we pray for something, don't assume that it is God who sent the first answer that comes along.


I also prayed this man would help me develop more patience. I got what I prayed for and a whole lot I didn't. There are times I feel like no matter how bad this guy has treated me, he is the one for me. That he will be saved, he is going to be a Godly man and we are meant to be together. Then I get inpatient and just want to give up, I wonder if I really am doing what God wants me to do or am I just doing what I want to do. I really don't know, I bounce back and forth between the two. One minute sure of one then the other minute sure of the other.

You are thinking this way because of the chains, the conviction that you got the answer to your prayer, now you just have to make it work out the way you wanted it to. In reality, you have not yet received God's answer to your prayer. God would not send you a man who would treat you badly.


I dread reading the responses to this (if there are any) I'm so scared that I've been doing the wrong thing...again. I want to do God's will and if that means letting this man go I will even though right now I feel like letting that hope of him ever being saved go will kill me.

SeekingGrace, I am sorry that I cannot write a comforting encouraging response to your cry for help. I can see that you are in a bad place. It is my prayer for you that you will be able to escape from it.

Letting go of this man and your hopes for him will not kill you. Letting go will set you free. Your hardest part is that you do not want to be free. You have somehow gotten accustomed to the bad treatment, and think it is the way life should be. It is not.

The standard that God sets for a man and a woman, is that the woman should respect the man, and the man should love the woman.

How can you respect someone who mistreats you, lies to you, cheats on you with another woman? This is not a respectable man.

You know that when a man treats you this way, he is not loving you. He is using you, and abusing you. He does not have your best interest at heart. He is not kind to you. He does not take care of the things which are important to you.

The most encouraging part of your post, is that you are at last seeking to develop a personal relationship with Christ. This is the right direction. You say that you grew up in the church, but have you ever been born again? Jesus said that if we want to enter into the kingdom of heaven, we must be born again. Do you know what this means?

SeekingGrace
Apr 14th 2008, 04:07 PM
Born again means that you have confessed your sins, have forgiven others of theirs, asked for forgiveness from Jesus and invited him and his Holy Spirit into your heart and life. I have done that. I have not been baptized as an adult. I would like to get baptized and am going to ask the Pastor at the church I'm currently attending if he would do it.

As far as the problem with the man I am feeling much calmer today. Here and there the loss of the intimate boyfriend/girlfriend relationship sets me off into a deep sadness. Most of the time I am calm and rational when it comes to him. If I feel myself losing it or wanting to cross a boundry I remove myself from the situation. I know I can not be with him. Am I tempted? of course, I love him, it hurts. I don't really think I am in love with him though. When I look back on the past few years and try to truly understand the lessons from it, it is more like he was the obsession of a desperate woman (me). He was my addiction, my idol. I was and still am desperate for someone to spend the rest of my life with and it scares me beyond words to think that there is not a mate out there for me. People tell me not to worry there is someone out there for me but this man I have been with for the last five years is the only guy to ask me out my entire adult life. (I'll be 29 in May) It's not like any guys are knocking down my door let alone a decent christian one. In fact I do not even know one single, decent, christian man in my age group! So yeah I panicked and latched onto the first guy that offered. I feel so sorry for this man, he is just so sick.
I have a question...Do I have to cut all contact with him, tell him never to call me or visit won't that just make me want him more and in the process hurt him really bad? You said "You could cut off all contact and the chains would still be there, because they are in your mind, in your heart, in your spirit."
I'm thinking that maybe I should just let him go from my end (do not call him or visit him)but if he comes back (call/visit me) I can socialize,pray with him just set solid boundaries. He said that he would be willing to pray with me (He was raised a Jehovah's Witness and though he still clings to some of their ways he doesn't practice. He was never allowed to be a kid, his parents treated him like a little adult so it's like now is his time to be that rebellious teen he never got to be) I've already set boundaries with him including boundaries on physical touching. Which is basically a peck on the cheek is ok, holding hands and hugs are ok but that is it and he rarely does those things. He respects those boundaries and says he doesn't want me to do anything with him that will make me feel bad either in the present or later. In time with Jesus's help will this hopeful feeling of being in a (bf/gf then marriage) relationship with him fade or even the entire friendship just fade as I continue in my relationship with Jesus and he doesn't? Honestly, I would feel horribly guilty completly leaving him, I've tried it before, severing all contact, and I just had so much guilt, I felt like I was abandoning him or something. I want to be a good example for him and I really do want to do God's will. I want to do it my way but I know I can't do it my way I think about the river of tears I have cried over this man, how I love him so much and that intimate love is not returned. Then I think about God, that he loves him more than I do, that my suffering because I intimately love this man is a drop in the bucket compared to how much God intimately, closely loves him and suffered for him...and me. It blows my mind and is a difficutlt thing for me to fathom. I feel like I have to do it God's way because he knows best. I read in someone else's post that God is the only one that could make something beautiful out of the mess I have created. That is so true. I have to give up the hope of every being in a relationship more than friendship with this man and let God have it. I feel like my own hope, my own selfish desire to be with this man is my real problem and once I help Jesus bind and toss out this selfish desire the jumbled up puzzle that is my life will finally start to have pieces fall easily into place and I won't have to be shoving them in where they don't belong cause I want to do it my way. It feels like the right thing to do but now I question every decision I make because I have been fooled so many times into thinking, believing I was doing the right thing only for it to be the wrong thing. I need guidance, I need scripture, I need prayer. Must I sever all ties despite my guilt and love for him? Thanks for taking the time to read this and thanks roadwarrior.

RoadWarrior
Apr 14th 2008, 04:24 PM
I have to leave for a doctor's appointment, but wanted to touch on this. Do, by all means, have a chat with your pastor. Ask about baptism. It is truly an important step for a Christian to take.

I do not say that you need to cut all ties with your friend - that is a choice you need to make on your own. What you need to cut, is the chains that are inside of you. With Jesus wielding the blowtorch, even the biggest chains can be broken off and you can be free.

With your mind and heart focused on Jesus, and obeying the small daily steps that He calls you to, changes will happen in you and in your life that will be visible to others, including this man if he is still in your life. Those changes are the biggest witness and testimony to the power of Christ, more than any words you will say.

God's Child
Apr 14th 2008, 07:30 PM
"Satan sends his best answer to our prayers before God sends His."
this was like a revelation to me..it is exactly what happened with me..this opened my eyes to how well i was convinced that he was perfect for me,answered all my prayers...but its a dellusion..hes not a beleiver,that just annuls everything..he cant possibly be God's best plan for me..I know God has someone who is just right for me,who will fulfill my hearts desire,what i need.someone who will push me forward and deeper in my relationship with Jesus.someone who is growing in the fruits of the Spirit, someone i can experience true love, peace, joy, gentleness, patience, faith...with.
Out of my relationship with Jesus,i know how good i feel growing daily with him,how his love and his presence is making the quality of my life better daily,and giving me peace,breaking away bondages from my life, freeing me...and this is what i want to have with the one who shares my life..
because , no matter how much Satan dresses him up and tries to make him look like the best thing, a nonbeliever is in spiritual death, which only leads to destruction, opposite to the life with Christ..

so we need to be careful of the dellusions that Satan creates..

But what about the "right one"..i have been in a very short 2 months relationship with someone at my church..i was still a new believer back then and didnt have discernment o God's voice..but i was so sure and he was too that its from God..we broke up quickly too..and he left church although he was very very committed back then..
so now im afraid,..and hesitant..how do i know when God sends me someone that hes the right one?obviously i wont try and then see what happens, i want God's word before getting involved in anything..i dont want to be duped again..i want it to be very clearly from God..but how can that happen?

RoadWarrior
Apr 14th 2008, 07:55 PM
"Satan sends his best answer to our prayers before God sends His."
...
But what about the "right one"..i have been in a very short 2 months relationship with someone at my church..i was still a new believer back then and didnt have discernment o God's voice..but i was so sure and he was too that its from God..we broke up quickly too..and he left church although he was very very committed back then..
so now im afraid,..and hesitant..how do i know when God sends me someone that hes the right one?obviously i wont try and then see what happens, i want God's word before getting involved in anything..i dont want to be duped again..i want it to be very clearly from God..but how can that happen?

It is very easy to assign to God the desires of our own hearts. We are too quick to say God did it, when we are doing what we want, not what He wants.

For anyone who has been in a bad relationship, I advise that you give yourself a long break before starting another one. Six months is a nice window. Put all your focus on the Lord, and on being the kind of woman He wants you to be, apart from any man.

Look at the story of Esther. See Esther 2:12. The young women had to complete 12 months of preparation, in two stages.

Even if you meet someone who seems to be just the right one, give it at least 3 months of just getting to know each other, frequently the initial attraction fades in that period of time.

Also, intimacy should be reserved for marriage, even when you decide that this truly is "the one". If you have already experienced physical intimacy, this discipline is hard. But it can be done, if you put your focus on the Lord, and on doing what you need to do to please Him.

These are the beginning basics for having a marriage that God blesses.

SeekingGrace
Apr 15th 2008, 09:22 PM
I just wanted to clarify when I said intimacy I wasn't refering to anything sexual. I was refering to an emotional intimacy, a closeness.

RoadWarrior
Apr 15th 2008, 11:22 PM
I just wanted to clarify when I said intimacy I wasn't refering to anything sexual. I was refering to an emotional intimacy, a closeness.

Hi SeekingGrace,

That is good that you were not involved physically. Sexual behavior takes things to a whole new level, beyond the emotional tangles.

Still, the things I said to GodsChild are the basics, and physical intimacy, sexual intimacy should be reserved for marriage.

Today I received an email containing these lines, credited to Maya Angelou:

'A woman's heart should be so hidden in Christ
that a man should have to seek Him first to find her.'

God's Child
Apr 19th 2008, 10:52 PM
Dear Roadwarrior,
thank you for the reply..i didnt mean that it was God's fault,but i meant that i was a new believer and i couldnt hear God's voice very clearly.
i like the quote,and im taking things very slowly with myself..im just worried for the future,which i shouldnt be..all will be solved in its time.
i too think that intimacy should be reserved for marriage,i agree 100%,no danger there..
At the moment i just am enjoying a recommitted relationship with Jesus,enjoying his love,finding security and faith in Him.
Have a good day :)

ClayJar
Apr 27th 2008, 03:11 PM
It’s been 3 weeks... time for an update. :)

I promised him that I would never break contact abruptly and unilaterally again. I did so before in the past because I was afraid that I wouldn’t be able to resist temptation to go back. I realised that I had to do my best to get him to understand my faith. I first explained why I couldn’t marry him if he wasn’t a Christian – this he now understands. He decided to learn more about Christianity. I was really happy to hear that, and I next tried my best to explain why if he was going to investigate Christianity, it had to be something that he pursued on his own, for himself – I had to be out of the picture, because for as long as he was investigating Christianity, it wasn't a good idea for us to keep seeing each other because we could never trust that his 'conversion' (if any) would be genuine. I thought he at first understood, because he said, "I accept what you are saying (I have learnt though that accepting doesn't mean understanding or agreeing), just do what you want, I will not complain." But he argued that I could and had to trust that he will not deceive himself or me about what he thinks of Christianity.

He also told me about two friends whom he really loved and respected, calling them the most devout and 'real' Christians he had ever met – one is a religious Catholic, the other 'converted' to Catholicism in order to get married. Both attend Mass regularly and are the most generous and loving people he knows. No doubt they are lovely people, and I know he's telling me about them because he is inspired by their story to therefore 'try out Christianity' in order to marry me (despite his nonbelief and his initial adamant stance to remain a nonbeliever). But my faith is not Catholicism, and he protested that the majority of what the world considers as Christian would accept him for what he is – in his own way he says he is a Christian - he understands the concept of Jesus dying for the sins of the world, but he and I know that he has not personally accepted Jesus as the Son of God and as his own lord and saviour. Then he told me that what I am after is someone just like myself, a literal mirror of myself. Of course I know he is wrong – I am after someone who understands the meaning of salvation by grace alone, who has a real genuine personal relationship with Jesus, who is able to lead me spiritually.

He also said that the idea of being separated while he investigates Christianity (doing a bible course etc) so that he is 'investigating Christianity independently of me' is an objective impossibility - because he IS reading Mere Christianity because of me, he IS investigating the faith because of me. He says he will read the bible (but that doesn't mean he's seeking to understand it as an authority -he says he will interpret it for himself because he says we cannot fully trust the version we have now - written by mere men and mistakes may be in it etc), he says he can't be as 'literal' as I am. I think he's trying to say that unless we had never met, his investigation of Christianity is always going to be connected to me, so any separation between us now while he searches God 'independent of me' is 'meaningless', because he could return to me after 2 months, five years, a lifetime even, it still doesn't matter what he does or says, I will never be able to fully trust that he is a real Christian.

So he put forth this suggestion: that (1) he will practise the faith / worship in church with me, and (2) he will read the bible / do his own investigation in his own time in his own way but I don't push him or keep asking about his progress or what he thinks etc, AND (3) we still continue to see each other. Because he doesn't see how letting each other go is going to mean anything (given the reasons above) and because he doesn't want to 'lose me'.

I asked him what 'continuing to see each other' means - he said, "we won't sleep with each other, I promise, because I understand and agree that it is spiritual and I don't want you to feel guilty.. I can go a long time without it, test me, I can do it" (I was thankful for that, but also sad, because the strength is still coming from him, he is not relying on God's strength. If he was a true believer, he'd say, 'I admit fighting sexual temptation is a struggle and I am weak, but I don't want to disobey God, I am relying on God to give me the strength to obey Him!').

I needed to know what he wants/means by 'continuing to see each other' because I told him that for as long as he wasn’t a Christian (despite his protests that he is one), I can't marry him. And as long as I can't marry him, it would be wrong to date each other as a couple (he and I agree that there no point dating unless marriage is the endpoint). Even without sexual sin, there is still emotional bondage when you date someone isn’t there? Isn't the emotional attachment something that I should be fleeing from as well?

So I was basically agreeing with the first 2 parts of his suggestion, but I was seeking to change the 3rd last part. I counter-suggested that if we saw each other, it could only be as friends. He said he can't do it, he's only human. "If I see you, I will want to at least hold your hand, put my arms around you, kiss you. I am not God, I am only human. We can't be just friends." I knew what he was saying, I understood.


He told me to think more about his suggestion. Not long after, I went to a wedding of 2 Christian friends from church. It was beautiful, the sermon again reminded me of the role of the Christian husband in self-sacrificially leading and protecting the spiritual welfare of his wife, the role of the Christian wife to joyfully submit to her husband’s loving leadership. That the person who will hurt you the most is the person you are closest to, that the person you will hurt most is the person you are closest to. How the key to any relationship is Forgiveness, Forgiveness, time and time again. And that no marriage will last unless the strength to forgive comes from God and God alone. I remember that I want a Christian marriage. I thought about how he is not ready. I thought about how God promised me before that He Will look after this man...

Towards the end of the reception, I called him to pick me up. He came, and we talked - about all the above, again. He was upset, he was angry. I had bought him a bible for him and asked him what he will do with it? Will he do the bible course without me? He kept quiet, he said, “I'm not answering. I gave you my suggestion, I want to do all these things, practise the faith, with you. But you have obviously made up your mind. I have to go.”

I went home, cried, prayed, feeling like I'd hindered his spiritual growth AGAIN. A friend told me that if I take up his suggestion, there is no guarantee that he will ever become a Christian and I don't want to prolong the emotional bond until we reach a stage in the relationship that he's suggesting where it's even more painful to let go or marry him only to have him change his mind again. She said I did wrong again to meet him again but maybe the only way for God to work Is that he hates me and we have the indefinite no-contact.

He had said, "If being a true Christian means becoming like you and doing what you're doing to me, the cruel way you have treated me, I don't want to be a Christian. I can never be like you." I wanted to die with the pain from hearing that. Is Satan using this pain, my guilt and fear that he will never find Christ, to lure me away from God?

Here are the thoughts (from Satan?) that torment me:
I really feel like I have hindered any possibility of his being saved. I can't help but feel that I have been cold-hearted and cruel to have done what I did, and that I have hindered his progress in finding Jesus. Was his suggestion really that bad? Could we continue seeing each other while he takes his time to investigate Christianity... would I be sinning? I just have to make it very clear that my walk with Christ comes first before anything else? He will agree to that - but what if he doesn't really know what that really means? God intends in a marriage for the man to lead and protect a woman spiritually - so even if at the start if a man cannot do this yet, do we have to abandon the relationship? Maybe my problem is that I have never dated a Christian guy properly to compare this relationship against. I keep thinking, ok, he is investigating this because of me, the impetus/starting point is me, but who is to say, he may just genuinely find the truth as a result?! At least I allowed him that chance? He will never step into a strange church for the first time on his own otherwise... and I know he'd do the course / attend a church, if I was there with him. Maybe I was too hasty in rejecting his suggestion? Maybe I should have at least held out for a few more weeks, to see him settled in a course/church, or at least show some personal support for him? Really!! I don't want to do anything disobedient to God, but how am I to know? He HAD progressed in his knowledge of Christianity for as long as he was seeing me - He is halfway through Mere Christianity, he listens to my views, he even prayed for me when I told him that a husband should protect the spiritual welfare of his wife - that is the one thing I really seek in a husband. But ask him straight out if he has a personal relationship with Jesus, and he will not answer, he hesitates, he says it is offensive to ask - I know what he means. In my eagerness to make sure that he understands correctly, I find myself 'correcting' him, his views, the way he prays - which he resents – but I can’t help it, such is the intense desire to make sure that he finds Jesus and be saved. If we marry like this, or even date like this, it's going to be miserable - unless I heed him to exercise self control and curb my tongue. And now I understand the wisdom in Paul’s instructions that elder men should teach the younger men, elder women teach the younger women – it is not advisable for someone of the opposite sex to mentor or evangelise.
One friend said to me, "He wants to learn and attend church with you, why are you cutting him off Now??" Granted she's not a very mature believer. But I felt miserable when I heard that.


I am letting Satan fool me again into thinking that unless I am there, he will never seek Christianity?!

My other 'matured' Christian friends said I did the right thing to sever all contact. One of them said, "He is going to be hurt in Any case, and you are always going to look like the bad guy, whether sooner or later. There IS no 'good' time to break up."

"If he's really interested, he knows where to look - you've already given him contact names to call re bible courses, church near his home, a bible and several other books. If just because you have left him he is now not interested in pursuing his investigation, then the relationship would never have worked anyway."

Please just keep praying for me. Of course I see the good sense in people's advice of severing all contact - everyone says the longer we see each other, the worse it will be - and yet I am Scared that Satan is still messing with me. I don't trust my own thoughts and decisions any more. I feel terrible that the person I love so much is now in so much agony. And yet I know God can do things, miracles, Without me, probably much much more if I'm not in the way... (hard to trust even though I know it is true). I've done it. I can let go. My only regret is that he will never really fully understand why I had to, and that I have caused him to stumble in the most important thing: his salvation. May God forgive me, for only He can make something out of this mess I’ve made.

God's Child
Apr 27th 2008, 08:44 PM
Hi Clayjar,
i want to encourage and emphasize on how God is showing you clearly the right things to do:

""I first explained why I couldn’t marry him if he wasn’t a Christian – this he now understands. ""

im sure it feels good to clarify things..for me too,it was a relief to be very clear with the guy that i ended the relationship with.

""and I next tried my best to explain why if he was going to investigate Christianity, it had to be something that he pursued on his own, for himself – I had to be out of the picture, because for as long as he was investigating Christianity, it wasn't a good idea for us to keep seeing each other because we could never trust that his 'conversion' (if any) would be genuine. ""

you already know the answer to your question that you ask at the end of your post..i think its great that you know clearly that you will never know for sure if he is a true christian or not..you see this happening always..and then the husband turns back to be a nonchristian again..
this was the main reason for me to give him up.because even if i did invest my time and even if i had given all the help he would ask for to get to know Jesus,and even if i consecrated myself to guide him,...i would never know..and even though i knew that,i gave it a chance..(im telling you this hoping it helps if you compare).i sent him an email back then saying that i cant be with him if he wasnt a christian,and that i prayed and i dont see a future for us..but in the same email i tried to give him some advice,to read the bible,to go to a conference by a pastor x,to read the book y,..etc.
and i was secretly waiting for his response..i wanted to know how he would progress,will he know Jesus,will his life be miraculously transformed, will he say: wow!!now i can see..will his life be renewed..because that was what i hoped for..
and of course,he answered that he was willing to do anything to be with me..and that he wants to go to my church.but something in his answer was ambivalent..i felt it,and i think it was God who gave me that discernment..(and my pastor and in this forum Roadwarrior confirmed my feeling)..i felt that he was only doing it for me..and that really he wasnt convinced..he had his own ideology..he believed what he believed,but was willing to go along with whatever i wanted..
and i feel that this is the case with the guy you are talking about,,,it shows in his suggestion (he didnt want to answer your questions about progress),and in his response when you asked him about what hed do with the bible, and in other ways..i think you know it..

Even after that,i still didnt want to let go..but i will give you two reasons to let go:
1- by your own understanding,you can never judge if hes a believer,if he will be with your help..and you have had a lot of questions so far tourmenting you..i would say that Satan is trying to get you to stay in this relationship by always leading you to question this and hat, and what-ifs and maybes and so on..so better do the ONE thing that you are sure about,which is God's voice to you saying that you shouldnt be with Him,hes not for you,you shouldnt be yoked with him,even in friendship..

2-you are a woman of faith..so you should have faith and trust your God..pray for that guy,but trust him with God..trust that He wil take care of Him..let go of him..and have faith.heres nothing more you can do..

i hope this helped.bless you, i will pray for you..:hug:

RoadWarrior
Apr 27th 2008, 09:43 PM
ClayJar, I think God's Child has given you a good answer. I also agree that Satan is putting these thoughts in you, to keep you "in the mire" so that you do not achieve freedom.

Something I think we as Christian often do not realize, is that we are not the Holy Spirit, and we do not need to try to do the work of the Holy Spirit.

The most important thing we can ever do, is to be Godly women, to keep ourselves clean and pure in His sight. When we do that, then our very lives are the testimony that the unbeliever needs to see and hear. When we fail (fall into sin with the person) then we mar and taint the testimony.

Satan will of course tell you that you need to stay in the sin, that it will be through your "self-sacrifice" that the unbeliever will be won. This is just not true.

We are all Christians here, and like Jesus said to Peter, we are all "clean" and do not need a bath - i.e., we don't need to "get saved" again. However, we are daily walking in the world, and we get our feet dirty. What we need is to come to Jesus in repentance, that He might wash our feet of the daily sins.

If we turn immediately (or in the next few days) and go back to the mud puddle, then our feet are again dirty. So we have to go back to repentance again ....

How many times can you do this before you get tired of the merry-go-round?

God calls us, He draws us, and it is up to us to respond to Him or turn away from Him. This is true for the man in your life as an unbeliever, God is calling him to salvation, but the response is his.

This is also true for you as a believer, God is calling you to holiness, but the response is up to you.

RoadWarrior
Apr 27th 2008, 09:58 PM
Here is another thread, another woman caught up in this dilemma. Ladies, you are not alone!
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=123388#post1619247

And here is a young man on the other side of the same picture; a young man who wants to follow Jesus wholeheartedly:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=122669
and the latest development for him is:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=123252
In case you don't have time to read all of this story, do please at least read this particular post: #11

If you want to see what the unbelieving husband will look like after a while, go to this one:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=122987
(This man is now on coffee break.)

I'm giving you these links so that you can read some of the answers that others are giving, and so that you can see the struggle that mirrors your own.

While I have been working on each of these threads, I see the similarity. the different aspect of this problem. I see the powerful reasons why God says, do not be unequally yoked!

ClayJar
Apr 28th 2008, 01:19 AM
Thank you Roadwarrior, God's Child

"He also said that the idea of being separated while he investigates Christianity (doing a bible course etc) so that he is 'investigating Christianity independently of me' is an objective impossibility - ...
... I think he's trying to say that unless we had never met, his investigation of Christianity is always going to be connected to me, so any separation between us now while he searches God 'independent of me' is 'meaningless', because he could return to me after 2 months, five years, a lifetime even, it still doesn't matter what he does or says, I will never be able to fully trust that he is a real Christian."

He had a point you know. In a way, how COULD he pretend to be a Christian? If after some time he has truly done all he earnestly can to seek and still not believe, we can still part ways with peace and nothing would have been lost except time, and frankly, I am willing to 'wait' in that respect. If the danger is in compromising my walk with the Lord during that time, he has already promised to respect my values and to make sacrifices and refrain from temptation, because he understands now how that would damage me. So would severing contact really be of any help at all?

Apart from the above paragraph:

I am very bothered about how we last parted. I had Promised that I wouldn't unilaterally sever contact again. I feel like I should have explained more clearly why the separation is necessary. But he was in too much pain to talk. All he could see was that I was 'brainwashed' by my church. Would emailing my explanation help any further? Is there any way that we could have parted with peace? I know for a fact that he will avoid anything to do with Christianity now because it would be associated with me.

God's Child
May 8th 2008, 08:01 PM
Hey Clayjar,

how are you? what has been going on?
i just had an idea..i was watching the Lakeland florida revival on God TV..its a revival thats being watched worldwide, and so many people are being saved, touched, healed..
i realized that the fire of the Holy Spirit, and my faith and closeness to Jesus have increased soo much just by watching that..
i advise you to be involved in evangelizing, and look for testimonies, watch revivals, see what God is doing..by turning your eyes on Him, things will be put in perspective..they will, i promise..its not worth it..God is great and He is doing so many great things in the world..turn your eyes to Him, Hes coming soon..dont let Satan keep you busy and distracted in worldly things..be in Gods glory, be a citizen of Heaven, fulfill your calling, be a disciple, see things in God's eyes..
He loves you and He cares about all the small and big things in your life..of course He is making you grow through this experience, but you need to be closer to Him..so that the small things dont drown you..

i hope you got the message.............break free!! you were born to fly, to save lives, to be carried by the wings of the Holy Spirit, to soar like an eagle...
Bless you,:hug:

ClayJar
May 11th 2008, 07:04 AM
Thank you God’s Child. I think your message is more than just coincidental. God is confirming His message to me through you. Thank you.

What happened since I last wrote in – I can’t believe it’s been barely a fortnight!! :

I emailed him, that every time we parted like that when he was upset with me always hurt us both. I told him I couldn’t be in a relationship with him because it is wrong unless marriage is the feasible goal – and I couldn’t marry him for all the reasons that he already knows - We are currently unequally yoked - and we are currently pulling in opposite directions. I cannot walk with God AND with him without being pulled apart - I have tried to do so and know now that putting my own will above God's will only brought suffering. Once again, God's Word has proven to be right. But it doesn't mean that we can't be in contact with each other. We just cannot do anything that 'encourages' a relationship. I'd never been in a relationship before I met him so I didn't really know how to go about this. I told him: “If it helped that we don’t see each other for some time, ok, I will miss you but I understand, maybe that's a good idea. If it helps to talk to each other, I would like that, we can talk on the phone, we can email; I would love to know what is happening with you so I can encourage you and pray for you. I am still here, I still care about you, I still pray and think of you even though we cannot be in a relationship.”

He responded. We emailed each other back and forth about 5 times, long long emotionally charged emails where I explained my side, and he counter-questioned... Basically, we got to the stage where I was satisfied that he understood the concepts and reasons for why I couldn't be in a relationship with him because we were unequally yoked. He stubbornly counter-suggested that he didn't fall foul of my this “unequally yoked” rule because he was, in his own way, a 'Christian', and he would be practising the faith with me and searching in his own time. But I had to explain why what he suggested wasn't right either (practising didn't = submitting to and having a personal relationship with Jesus). I was firm that I would not change my beliefs or disobey God further.

He also says he believes the sadness and anguish I went through whenever we severed contact. So when I proposed trying to be friends, he agreed to try. I was relieved - I didn't think I could go through more emotional turmoil. So we tried; the guideline was to treat each other as we would our sibling. We met up many times, trying to be friends. On email he sounded strong in wanting to honour the boundaries, reminding me that he did so once before. But face to face, it was a lot harder to keep to the rules. It wasn't easy, he still wanted to hold my hand ("can we link arms?" "would you do that with your sister?" etc), I found it hard not to kiss him, especially when he kept kissing me on the cheek and hugging me until I gave in and kissed him on the lips. I kept reminding him "I'm your sister! You're my brother!" One of us would try to keep from being affectionate, but then the other would collapse in weakness; it was exhausting for me to resist doing more, it was sad for him to not be able to do more. I Did keep to my boundaries though on sticking to public places, not being alone with him. All the while I felt like he wasn't trying hard enough to resist temptation - but also at the same time I couldn't help thinking that I couldn't really blame him either because to him, he's not doing anything wrong: he wants a committed relationship with me, and he's trying to avoid showing physical affection towards me because I have asked him to, not because he thinks that it's wrong.

He came to church once. I normally only go for a later service, but I thought maybe if I go along once with him to the earlier service, that he may be encouraged to go on his own in future. He enjoyed the service, just like how he sometimes enjoys reading the books/bible I have given and urged him to read. But He's not seeking the bible out as an authority. I know he does all these things because I ask him to, or because I go with him. Not because he's genuinely seeking.

The past fortnight has been difficult for him for reasons separate from this ‘relationship’. I did my best to comfort him, encourage him, pray for him. I sent him devotional emails, called him, spent time with him. And all my answers were always: rely on God, trust on Him, rely on His strength not on your own, seek Him and His will and He will give you peace and guidance and wisdom on what to do next. I imagine a whole lifetime of this and I know it will only bring heartache and misery: I can't do anything without seeking God's will first. I can't help but be frustrated and saddened that he just does what his self-will wants. I was pointing everything towards something that is just a concept and not a personal reality/experience to him as much as I love him, and he will never fully know understand.

I also begun to understand more about love/relationships. Loving someone more than God is wrong and is idolatry - nonchristians can understand that love means self-sacrifice for another. I can see how if we love a person (but not God) that way so much, and yet when the person we put ahead of ourselves and sacrifice so much for lets us down (because humans are humans and will fail/hurt each other inevitably, whether we want to or not), it is devastating - so much so that we either protect/preserve a part of ourselves in order to prevent the hurt from damaging ourselves (but in doing so we don't love Entirely and that's sad because that is not truly Living / being human); or we get very hurt/resentful and ironically end up hurting the one person we love. I understand now why if we take that kind of yearning and love for someone and transfer it to loving GOD that way, God is the only one who will never hurt us, who sustains us, heals us - from that kind of permanent, sustainable source, we can therefore love others.

3 days ago, he said he couldn't do this friendship thing anymore, that he isn't strong enough, every time he sees me desire is too strong, he tried but he doesn't think he can go on for much longer because he's losing the strength and willpower (of course, because he doesn't know what it means to rely on God's strength), he said "I didn't think I could love you more but the more I see you, the more I am in love with you and the more I want you. I don't mean just to sleep with you, but to want you permanently in my life. I want to marry you, let's get engaged." Of course I said no. He said he doesn't understand why he couldn't be with me, he has agreed to do more than he thought he would ever do for someone (ie practise the faith etc with me). But I suppose what I'm asking for is for him to become a totally different person (in accepting Jesus in his heart) which he isn't ready to do.

He said he understands in concept all that I've told him, all that I believe, the subsequent rules and ultimatums and boundaries I set. But he said honestly, it's all theory and reality is different to him. I asked him, what do you want me to do? He said, don't see my anymore. I was honest and said the first thing that came to mind: I'm not sure if I can survive another time like this... You are doing what I did before... and I'm scared that I won't be able to deal with the pain. He said he wasn't sure himself that he would be strong enough to stay away from me either. The saddest thing he said was, "I don't understand how you can be so strong (in resisting) when I am so weak. It must be true that you do love God first and therefore are able to resist, but that just means that you don't really understand me or are in the same degree of pain I am going through. I feel alone." No amount of my trying to tell him that I Do understand, that we are never alone because God is here, that loving and therefore obeying God first is the most loving thing I could do for him, helped. His pain blocked out everything else in his mind. He asked me to leave, he was in tears when I left him.

Now what's going through me. Peace - because I know I am obeying God. A bit of fear - that I will relapse into the depression and emotional anguish that I went through before... but I feel a bit stronger this time, thank the Lord - because I feel like I have done my best, and am convinced that I Can't do anymore. Why is it that when I am with the guy, I see clearly and can stick to my constant regurgitatations of why I can't be with him, but the moment he says 'no more contact' is when I start to crumble? It's because I miss him. Thank the Lord that so far it's not as bad as the previous times. I try not to think the sad thought that in order to get over me, he'll be telling himself: "she doesn't accept me for who I am. She doesn't love me enough, or understand me, or is hurting as much as I am" :() And when he finds someone else that he feels he wants to commit himself to, he'll be sleeping with her outside of marriage - I Know he will move on, he has before and he will again. I always imagine that he is together with another woman, to brace myself for the inevitable heartache. I can't expect him to adhere to Christian values and I have to let him go. I'm trying not to think about this because it is THE only thing that is causing me pain now. Please pray about this for me, for it is stumbling me.

He has asked me to “let him be for a while” ("Good luck with your life" was his last wish to me - very dramatic isn't he :)). I've agreed. As soon as he is able to, he wants to take some time away from everything, travel to a different state or go camping in the mountains. I was actually glad about that, I asked him to take the bible with him. But he did not promise this. I don't think he will be investigating Christianity anytime soon because to start off with, he only did so because of me, and now he is probably too hurt and upset and everything connected with Christianity reminds him of me. No one is sorrier or more in anguish over this than I am. But I remember God telling me that He will look after this man, and I trust God on this. I believe this means that God will save him one day - I just cannot dictate to God when or how. It may be next week, it may be 30 years from now. My hope is in nothing less than on His word alone and I am not going to fight God anymore. I understand where God is taking me with this in this struggle - He wants me to refocus, give my heart a paradigm shift of sorts, back to Him. Jacob has wrestled and God has blessed! (I really understand Gen 32:22-32 now.)

So that is why I have a feeling that this time apart is more for my benefit, this is a good time to 'get back to God'. I used to spend more time at work in the past in order to try distracting myself from the pain of letting him go. But this time I'm not going to do that. I know what I have to do for now – I will pray for a practical sense of what areas God calls me to, people I personally know (and neglected during these months when I’ve been in anguish in this unequally yoked relationship) to renew encouragement re our spiritual walks. My prayer now is that I keep being vigilant - that nothing matters more than holding fast to the Lord and listening to no other voice but His.

Thank you again.

God's Child
May 11th 2008, 02:06 PM
Hey Clayjar!
good to hear from you!:pp
I sense you are different from the last time you took a break..you seem stronger,and more convinced of what you re doing..thank God for that!
its like you said,you wrestled with God..Satan's lies in your head have fallen off because you have Experienced and you saw with your own eyes, and now you are convinced with God's plans..
God is good..He will not let any of His children get lost..
and yes its definitely a time to get close to Him..to listen to what He has to say to you,to your life..
God bless you and keep you..against the attacks of Satan..
actually as im writing im thinking of something,..Satan can attack you when He has his foot in the door..but take time with the Lord,im sure He will lead you to repentance,like He lead me.after repentance,pray that He gives you faith that Satan can no longer be stronger than you in this matter..believe that you will not be tempted,you will not be sad,you will not doubt, you will not be emotionally manipulated..you are free!

keep us posted of the new move of Jesus in you life ;)

God's Child
May 11th 2008, 02:08 PM
Hey Roadwarrior!
nice picture :)

RoadWarrior
May 11th 2008, 02:38 PM
Thanks! I am about to be away for a while, but will check in when I can. I just want to say something before I go.

There is something stirring in the world, there is true revival and there is false revival, they seem to both be happening at the same time. Stay alert and aware.

I exhort all of you to intensify your hunger for the true Word of God. Make your Bible reading and prayer time a priority. As you have now obeyed Him in this very important (and difficult) area of your lives, go deeper. You are ready for something more sweet and wonderful and powerful than you ever would have known with these men.

Let it be true that "Your husband is your maker" - look it up, Isaiah 54:5. Let all of the love that you want to give, be poured out on the feet of Jesus.

God's Child
May 11th 2008, 08:01 PM
thats so nice..thank you! the best advice yet..to pour our love on the feet of Jesus..

just a question before you go,or if you re already gone maybe you can tell us later..what do you mean by a true revival and a wrong one..

thank you for clarifying,
hugs:hug:

RoadWarrior
May 12th 2008, 01:33 AM
thats so nice..thank you! the best advice yet..to pour our love on the feet of Jesus..

just a question before you go,or if you re already gone maybe you can tell us later..what do you mean by a true revival and a wrong one..

thank you for clarifying,
hugs:hug:

A good book that describes a true revival is Fresh Wind Fresh Fire by Jim Cymbala, who saw Brooklyn Tabernacle go from about 25 people and not being able to meet the bills, to thousands today and lives truly changed. The best way to be able to recognize counterfeit, is to know the real. Real revival is rooted in the Bible and in prayer, and the fruit is evident in changed lives. False revival is lots of fluff and stuff, showoff behaviors, and disillusionment will eventually set in.

If you are watching what claims to be a move of the Spirit, look for the evidence. Is the gospel preached? Are people falling under conviction of their sins, and coming in repentance, having dramatic changes in their lives.

Investigate what is happening in places where people are persecuted and killed for conversion to Christianity, but they come to Jesus anyway. Voice of the Martyrs is a good source for that kind of knowledge.

We are in a motel tonight that has WiFi! Yay!

servantsheart
May 12th 2008, 02:38 AM
Hello Clayjar, I just now read this description of your ex-relationship with a non-Christian. I personally, in reading your heart felt message, believe you have a good handle on what you need to do to stay close to God. It sounds like you know your makers voice and he knows you and directs your paths.
Just know that if this does not work out with him becoming a Christian now rather then later, that God already has something better worked out for you. You gave up something very important to stand for your beliefs in Christ. God will bless you I believe in some important way for your standing with HIM and not turning away and following a non-believer down the wrong path.
You have the right idea to stay busy...busy doing the Lords work...get involved with your church, maybe with the children's ministry, youth group, music, prayer groups, Bible study, etc., take some classes, learn a new hobby or sport, etc.
{I'm smiling now....Just don't go off and jump into a new relationship right off the bat...they usually don't work out or you fear being alone so you marry the 'second best' choice...KEEP COUNCIL WITH GOD AND HE WILL KEEP YOU ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW UNTIL HIS TIMING IS RIGHT... Ecc. a time and a place for everything.
May Father God keep you filled with his wisdom inside of you and may he keep you filled with his joy.

ClayJar
May 12th 2008, 04:57 AM
Hi all,
thank you all for the encouragement. (and Roadwarrior! I'm so happy to hear from you despite your being away!)

Just know that if this does not work out with him becoming a Christian now rather then later, that God already has something better worked out for you.

Hi servantsheart, thank you - I know this and I needed to be reminded of it because it's easy to forget when honestly, my heart doesn't really care about 'something better' in the future - it's because (unlike the Full vision that God sees) my narrow tunnel vision can't See, can't perceive that there's something better. I don't want you guys to think that I have a trust issue with God (ok, maybe it seems like I do, sorry), and rest assured, I'm not going to be jumping into another relationship :) - the thought of it makes me sick really. I will try and be busy with the Lord's work. Bible reading and prayer is taking top priority.

What I'm trying to say is that I know God's plans are best so we can trust His will - my head knows this. I just honestly don't Feel much comforted from it.. I don't really care right now that I will have a 'better future' without this guy. I don't really care about something better, it makes me sad, not happy, to think that that God's plan for me, good as it is, may be totally different and separate from this man. This is just how I feel - Feelings have moments of taking me over but don't worry, I'm beyond just acting upon those feelings - No more of it! Because I simply am not going to put up with the misery of disobeying God again. I Have let go of what I want (ie, God, make him a Christian NOW!) and I know what I have to do for right now.

His most recent short message was: "I have only one request. Please write to me when you have found someone else. It will help me ease the upset feelings I still have." (This was his one and only reply to the chain of 'last' emails and text messages I've been sending up to this morning - don't worry I won't be sending him any more .. I just wanted to remind him of the courses and churches he said he'd go to during the time when we were trying to be friends... which he probably won't go to now.)

When I got that message, I thought about promising him that I won't see anyone else whilst he searched and investigated Christianity. I would be serious about this promise; it would be easy to make, because I can't imagine being with anyone else. But I haven't promised it... because someone pointed out to me that I can't bribe/bait him into seeking out Christ that way, that it was still a wrong way to evangelise?, however noble the promise, because it's not the way God wants us to encourage others to seek Him out??

All I have now, which I didn't have before and I have to be content with for now, is the Peace from obeying God - because, God's Child, you are right that I do feel better this time that I really can't be in a relationship with him. A stubborn part of me still insists that a friendship is possible whilst he is searching, but he's made it clear he doesn't want just friendship with me and he found it hard to be friends.

Thank you for praying that God keeps me filled with His joy - that's harder to come by because the Joy isn't there. Not really. Not right now. Not yet.

servantsheart
May 13th 2008, 12:54 AM
Dear Clay Jar, I would not believe you have a 'trust' issue with God. I understand your hurting heart needs time to heal. The old saying is still true today...'Time heals all hurts'...but it is really God's timing that helps to heal those hurts and mend the broken pieces back together again. Forming them into one new vessel that can be filled to over flowing with love, joy, peace, happines and more.
You sound like a very special lady who knows her Lord and Savior and is trying very hard to serve him according to his word.
Find peace within yourself for being mature enough in Christ to know what you know and strong enough through Christ to carry out the actions required.
I admire you and your relationship with God. Father God continue to guide Clay Jar through all of her hurts and brokeness. Restore her to completness in you. Let her feel the shelter of your wings protecting her. And through the peace brought by the comforter let her rest and not worry but to give all things over to you and leave them with you. Let her see what a blessing she is and what a great witness she is.
I pray this in Christ Jesus' name. Amen

ClayJar
May 13th 2008, 07:27 AM
Dear Clay Jar
... Father God continue to guide Clay Jar through all of her hurts and brokeness. Restore her to completness in you. Let her feel the shelter of your wings protecting her. And through the peace brought by the comforter let her rest and not worry but to give all things over to you and leave them with you. Let her see what a blessing she is and what a great witness she is.
I pray this in Christ Jesus' name. Amen

I need to post this and I'll tell why later:

When I prayed today, God spoke to my heart. He really did. This is what He said:
God said he knew what this guy and I wanted (each other). But more than our need for each other, we need Him first. We both haven't learnt to trust Him fully yet. We're both not ready and we're too impatient:
I am impatient and letting Satan torment me into thinking that the guy won't be saved and will find someone else - which makes me want to take matters into my own hands and rely on myself and not to trust God. But God reassured me that He will look after the man, I don't have to have this burden of anguish and worry anymore - I can give it to God - God WANTS my burden! What unbelievable generosity!! My part is to do just that. God lovingly told me to let go emotionally of this man, but to keep up intercessory prayer for his salvation. I will obey!
And the guy is impatient too, wanting what he wants, and letting the devil use his emotions and intellectual pride to convince him that Jesus is not the truth. God told me this: He is going to come to him, He is after him, He is after his heart! He didn't say how or exactly when; and it could be in many different ways. It's the guy's part to look out and keep watch, keep searching and praying and not give up - and when he senses God's call, to respond; when he senses God speak, to respond - that's his choice, and God said that the man has nothing to fear but just not let the devil convince him to ignore or avoid God's presence. I asked, but what if he doesn't choose you, what if he rejects you? God again reassured me: I will look after him.

It's enough for me - I don't know why. Because a few months, even weeks, ago, I would still be Tormented by these questions: Will he be saved? If so, when? (And even then, will he be with someone else?).
Even though technically He didn't Owe me any answers in the first place, in His generosity and grace, God has revealed enough for me to start regaining my faith (it's a 'slow miracle' after all). Because somehow, it's enough for me that God has promised me that He is going to pursue the man. That alone brings me so much peace. I don't know why. And I trust what God has said because when God gives his word, He means it. He does what He promises. I feel a lot better than yesterday, and I think God is gaining victory in me.

I have sent the guy a message of what God has told me, because God was refering to both of us ("both of you are not ready", "both of you need to trust me", "he has nothing to fear" etc) so I felt that he should be told. I don't know if he has bothered to read it (he could have deleted it in his upset state), or if he has, if he will take it to heart (right now, he probably thinks it's all baloney). But maybe in the future he may recall it, and it may finally make sense to him and he'll see the light. In any case, I'm leaving him be now as he requested. I am not going to contact him anymore. I don't want to, because I think any more contact will be unhelpful.

I agree that the hurt will take time to totally heal, I know I will still have times when I just plain miss him (I'm beginning to feel it again as I type). However, after hearing God today and reading this:
but it is really God's timing that helps to heal those hurts and mend the broken pieces back together again.
I think that timing has at least started. And I will continue to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Him.
Thank you for praying for me, servantsheart.

I wanted to post this to remember this, as I'll come back to read it over and over again (in the times when Satan will try and attack me again - I Know he'll always be trying).
And also to let all of you know that from looking at the time when servantsheart entered the last post, God spoke to me about half an hour or so before that time, probably at the time the quoted words above were being typed.

Isn't God amazing?? :hug: Thank you so much God.

This just proves that God listens and answers our prayers when we pray to Know Him! So Thank You (to Everyone, but esp to Roadwarrior) for praying! I know there will still be moments of sadness, missing him, especially the thoughts of "he's going to find someone else" - but I believe I will not fall into despair again. I just have to keep close to God every day. Please keep praying whenever you remember (and for him too). Thank you!

servantsheart
May 15th 2008, 11:13 PM
Thank you ClayJar!! I love it when someone can connect prayers someone has prayed to what they have heard for themselves from God. I love the way God works in our lives.
It was a blessing to just arrive home after along day and sit down and read your message. Thank you for sharing with us. Pat

ClayJar
May 26th 2008, 02:05 PM
I missed him too much to stay away. I didn't have the strength or resolve to respect his request to leave him be. The man has the patience of a saint! I told him I'd try his suggestion of him investigating Christianity in his own time and way and practising the faith with me while we continued to see each other.I did this for a week... and it didn't work. I was just filled with guilt the whole time because we were seeing each other and not just friends and it was just Wrong and I wasn't strong enough... I spent a lot of time in bed, unable to eat or go about daily living, all from guilt, and I was really torn.

He was sad that I wasn't happy. So he tried - despite his unbelief, he decided to try out a bible course that my church ran. He went for the first session and after it was over went home and read the entire course booklet. Then he sent me a message saying that he can't change what he believes, he sees where our beliefs diverge. He was sad because he would lose me as a result, but he could not lie or pretend to believe. It broke my heart. I was grateful that he was honest, but it made me really really sad because I couldn't do a Thing about it! I know this is really all up to God - I can't change him, he can't change himself.

He said he loved me and wanted to get engaged. He asked me to think carefully and that it's up to me to choose: He can't change so either I'll have to accept him as he is and we continue to see each other with a view to marriage (he's not into casual dating). Or if I cannot accept him as he is, a nonbeliever, then we have to stop seeing each other because there is no way we can be 'just friends' - and if I wasn't strong enough this time to not contact him, he'll have to ignore my calls this time.

For the past week or so after that, we continued to see each other - I told him honestly that I'm clinging to him because I'm afraid that I won't survive if we sever contact again - I tried so many times before and I never recovered. I recognised that he can't do anything - it's my burden between me and God.

I'd gotten him to understand as much as possible, and he told me that the 2 Cor unequally yoked rule was all a matter of interpretation. He reassured and promised me that he wouldn't compromise my faith because he knows it's important to me, he'd make sure I go to church, he would be faithful and committed to me, practise the faith with me, would pray for me (but to whom when he doesn't accept Jesus to be the son of God!), he was open with how to give money for Christian causes, and regarding raising kids he said after all the difficulties he's been through in this world, he thinks it's not a bad idea to let children have a form of security, ie he thinks he wouldn't mind them being sent to Sunday School etc. He's trying to tell me that I could have a relationship with him and not be going against my faith. That even though he doesn't have a personal relationship with Jesus (he says it's just something he Can't do - my flaw has always been wanting to change him, I'm bossy and stubborn, I keep thinking Why can't he understand and accept and believe?!) and will not be able to lead me spiritually, he wanted me to know that he would do his best to ensure that my Christian faith wouldn't be compromised.

I tried believing it could work because I was reluctant to let go of him - I'm still afraid that I will never recover and I find it so hard to trust God with whatever happens. But, I know it's not enough. He's trying so hard to give me what I want, but I still had a nagging feeling that it's still not going to work. He's relying on himself, on his strength, on anything but Christ. I know I can put up with a man's faults Only If I know that he has subjected his life to Christ and I am assured that the Holy Spirit is in the process of making him new (for we are All flawed).

Last Friday he said he couldn't take the uncertainty anymore. He was miserable with me, he didn't like how I couldn't come to a decision. And I couldn't take it anymore, I was filled with so much guilt when I continued to see him. I was afraid to let him go but I promised not to contact him anymore. He was upset that I couldn't accept him the way he was. We didn't part happily.

I'm coming to the end of myself, I've been wrestling with God on this for 8 months and I'm giving up. I know now that it doesn't matter how much I try to make him understand, I will Always appear to be the bad guy to him. But I agreed to respect his wishes and to not contact him. I'm just too tired to fight anymore, there is Nothing more I can do to change things. Hopefully with God's help, this time I will keep my word. I just miss him A LOT. I miss him so much.

I know it's not fair of me to say this to God, but I told God: 'There!!! I've obeyed you... I know there is NO other way because any other way I tried didn't work. And I Know nothing is going to work.... but please God promise me that this pain I'm going through is not going to be a waste with regards to his salvation!' I know I don't deserve anything from God, I'm just too tired to secondguess God anymore. I Hate this. I hate myself. I'm Sick of this. But I also don't want to go against Him anymore - I hate not knowing the future and yet there is No One else I trust but Him! (Who else are we go to? Please forgive me Lord.)

The pain will not be a waste, right? Maybe one day it may help him see the light, hopefully he will remember that despite the anguish and the pain and the 'wanting what I want', I was one person who could not, did not compromise my first love and obedience to God. That should tell him something? This is so heartbreaking.

It's a day to day survival. And I am Tired. Please continue to pray for me. Thank you!


I also have another question for those who have been through this (eg, Godschild - I'm not sure if she still frequents the forum): Do you continue praying for him?

I learnt recently that when we pray for someone to come to know Christ, the reason we ask this of God is so that the person would come to glorify and serve God. But I can't totally separate that noble motivation from the fact that this guy is obviously special to me, hence my own desire to see him saved! And yes, I don't want to be praying for a solely selfish reason, I am trying to pray according to God's will - I constantly remind myself even as I pray for him that I still pray for his salvation even if it's God's will that he is not the one for me. Am I playing mindgames with myself? Yet I know that God is sovereign and our prayers, even the motivation of our prayers, imperfect as they are, will not prevent his will from being carried out. Maybe this is all moot: that I shouldn't be worrying at all about HOW I should be praying, as long as I'm praying - God already knows my heart and at this stage just wants me to keep obeying Him and just focus on Him? Eventually as I continue to seek and understand Him more, my prayers will eventually be aligned with His will? But what should I be doing now with regards to my prayers for him?

God's Child
Jun 3rd 2008, 10:49 PM
Hi Clayjar,
i only pray for him occasionally when i feel God is leading me to pray for the people that i know that need salvation..i pray that they were blessed by the presence of jesus in my life..i prayed for him around 7 times only since then..and i advice you to work on having faith..Faith is what you need, not repetition of prayers..so just be in the presence of the Holy Spirit, and pray for faith, peace of your soul..read any book about faith..about trusting God..and dont pray fpr him to be saved..right now its draining your emotions and keeping your link with him srong, and making you suffer even more..besides, God knows that prayer already..so focus on having rest for your soul..Jesus said: Come unto me, all ye who labor for me, and I will give you rest..take MY yoke upon ye, and i will give you rest"
so you were unequally yoked, now you need to take the yoke of Jesus..just be in his presence, listen to Him, read His word..He will talk to you..He will confort you..and laaattteeerrrr when you have calmed your feelings and when yu are not led by your emotions anymore, then you can pray for him..
i hope this helps..
how are you doing, and what happened since?
bless you:pray:

ClayJar
Jun 9th 2008, 06:42 AM
Thanks God's Child. I understand.

What has happened since...

He called not long after my last post, he said he knew he was breaking his own imposed silence but 'everything felt empty', I knew we were missing each other. I agreed to see him. It just made things worse. By being with him, he thought I was changing my mind about being unequally yoked, but really deep inside I knew I was refusing to accept that he can't/won't believe, and I was desperately afraid to let him go, the memory of the pain from separation before was all too vivid. After 3 days, he exploded. He told me to think about a complete severance for good, because my words and my actions are so contradictory he's starting to hate me and can't trust me anymore. I don't blame him, I knew I was to blame, because I was too weak to let him go. I knew it would get to the stage where he would get so sick of me that he didn't want to have anything to do with me anymore.

He said a lot of hurtful things. That he regretted ever knowing me, that I was insulting offensive contradictory nonsensical. That I wasn't capable of being loyal. That I will probably marry someone who won't love me. He said I never really loved him if I wanted him to a Christian because he says he'll have to be a completely different person in subjecting his life to Christ - I know what Satan is doing to me. Roadwarrior has said this before, he wants me to keep walking back and getting my feet muddied. Satan knows that what causes me pain is knowing that in order to 'get over' me and move on, the man will misunderstand and tell himself that I never Really loved him because I could never accept him as a nonbeliever.

I tried telling him that I do love and care about him - that being a Christian meant that you become more of who you are Supposed to be, what God created you for. He was very offended by what I said (that he was incomplete without God, that he needed God to complete/'fix' him). I KNOW how offensive it must sound to him for me to tell him that he is incomplete without God. I know he thinks he's fine the way he is. He is a strong man and has conquered many difficulties in life, but hell is so much worse! I don't want him to go through it! It jolted me to the sorrowful truth: that at the end of the day, it is still the Self that prevents Christ from reaching the heart (God promised that whoever who earnestly seeks Will find).

It's hard to just walk away, to endure being misunderstood. God knows, everything in my life before has been easy to yield over to Him - this is the first time I am really struggling to let go. I tried for 8 months to make him understand.. I kept believing that we could have peace, with him understanding more about Christianity - but all I have done is to make things worse each time. My own sinfulness has caused so much more hatred and hardness of heart for him. The more Satan tells me to make amends by going back, the worse it will become. I know that. I'm doing so much damage that I know I have no other alternative but to walk away. He said, 'if you don't want me because your literal belief says so, just leave. Why is it so hard?' I apologised So Many times now for the way I behaved, telling him that it's the war between my sinful self (ie wanting to be with him) and pursuing Christ (ie no unequally yoked relationship). I WISH he could understand but he never will as a nonbeliever. But I'm not ever contacting him again. The only hope I have is God's promise that one day all eyes will be opened.

I am in misery and regret that I have gotten him to think even Less of Christianity now. Please pray that I can get over this, remembering that God Forgives. I also sometimes fear that the man is right... maybe I'm not capable of loving or being loyal... Satan tortures me this way. The way we parted was just as bad as every other time before. It will get even more painful unless I end it now. He is so sick and tired of me and Christianity, there is NO way I could ever rectify things. Please God forgive me. Please help me to trust you. With Everything.

How am I doing...

A few days ago, I received a book in the mail (existentialist novel, the writer was tortured throughout his life by fear and depression - artists who think they will 'redeem' themselves through their own suffering, to me, it's still dependency on the self-will, still 'self-pride' as how the bible would call it). The book didn't come with a note, but I knew it was from him. I resisted contacting him. I know the most loving thing to do is to leave him alone and walk away, completely yield him over to God and trust in His promise that He will look after him, for He is all loving and all good. I made a promise to him of silence and I intend to keep it, with God's strength to enable me. More importantly, I made a promise to God to return to my first love.

I am taking one day at a time with Christ. I am 'dating' Him again, if you will. I used to think that I didn't deserve, didn't have the right, to 'expose' my disobedience and weakness by taking Everything to Him.. but I'm beginning to see that this IS what He wants. He Wants to fill and fill and fill us until there is no space for any other substitute. I took that Need to the wrong place, and yet He takes me back. One day at a time. I take every thought/moment, good or bad, weak or strong, despair or peace - to Him. And listen to Him. It's all that I cling to now.

God is looking after me. I got notice to vacate my current residence that I've been in for the past 4 years (owners want it back). Have found somewhere else to rent and in 2 and half weeks time, I'll be busy moving to a Completely different place to live. I will have to make new friends, neighbours, maybe even find a new church (still undecided). Work has also done some major shuffling and I've been assigned a few new areas and working with new people. It's as if God is giving me new directions, new purpose. I know what I have to do, I know God is calling me in little ways. It's amazing when we pray. I watched Prince Caspian at the cinema last weekend and it made me cry - it's all about waiting upon Christ, never putting your hope on anything less other than on Him.

One day at a time. Please pray that I stay in the Lord and not let my heart stray again. Thank you. :hug:

RoadWarrior
Jun 9th 2008, 03:07 PM
Hi Clayjar,

I've been thinking of you and praying for you. I know how hard this is. But be strong and have good courage, as the Lord said to Joshua. He said it 3 times, and I think of that often. He wants us to be strong and courageous. What a gift He is giving you, the change of home, the changes in your job .. a new beginning. It is an excellent way to move on in your life.

Do not believe the lie that you cannot love and be loyal. You can. You will, with the right person.

Often it happens that when we succeed in obeying God by getting away from the wrong person, that God has the right person waiting for us. I have seen it happen before.

Your motivations sound good, CJ, and I rejoice that you have returned to your first love. When we find the right person, it will not be "instead" of our love for Christ but "inside" our love for Him.

Some lines from a song:

Keep your eyes on Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His mercy and grace.

Befaithful
Jun 11th 2008, 05:00 AM
I am in misery and regret that I have gotten him to think even Less of Christianity now. Please pray that I can get over this, remembering that God Forgives. I also sometimes fear that the man is right... maybe I'm not capable of loving or being loyal... Satan tortures me this way. The way we parted was just as bad as every other time before. It will get even more painful unless I end it now. He is so sick and tired of me and Christianity, there is NO way I could ever rectify things. Please God forgive me. Please help me to trust you. With Everything.



The Joy of the Lord is your strength. I am going to stick a few truths in here for you to cut and paste into your documents and maybe print out. It is so important to remind ourselves what Jesus says about us. And reject what the enemy says.

Dear Sweet Sister The Lord will never be sick and tired of you. He loves you 24/7 and then some:hug: I am so happy the Lord is moving things around stirring things up getting his daughter in a safe place. Jesus Loves you so much. With an everlasting love. You are a daughter of the King of kings. You are royalty.

Inundate yourself with the truths of who He says you are...

I am a child of God. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=john+1:12');)
John 1:12
I am a branch of the true vine, and a conduit of Christ's life. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=john+15:1-5');)
John 15:1-5
I am a friend of Jesus. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=john+15:15');)
John 15:15
I have been justified and redeemed. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=romans+3:23-24;romans+6:6');)
Romans 3:23-24; Romans 6:6
I will not be condemned by God, I have been set free from the law of sin and death. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=romans+8:1-2;');)
Romans 8:1-2
As a child of God, I am a fellow heir with Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=romans+8:17');)
Romans 8:17
I have been accepted by Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=romans+15:6-8');)
Romans 15:7
I have been called to be a saint (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=1corinthians+1:2;ephesians+1:1;philippians +1:1;colossians+1:2');)
1 Corinthians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:2
In Christ Jesus, I have wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=1corinthians+1:30');)
1 Corinthians 1:30
My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in me (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=1corinthians+3:16;1corinthians+6:19');)
1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19
I am joined to the Lord and am one spirit with him. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=1corinthians+6:17');)
1 Corinthians 6:17
God leads me in the triumph and knowledge of Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=2corinthians+2:14');)
2 Corinthians 2:14
The hardening of my mind has been removed in Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=2corinthians+3:14');)
2 Corinthians 3:14
I am a new creature in Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=2corinthians+5:17');)
2 Corinthians 5:17
I have become the righteousness of God in Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=2corinthians+5:21');)
2 Corinthians 5:21
I have been made one with all who are in Christ Jesus. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=galatians+3:28');)
Galatians 3:28
I am no longer a slave but a child of an heir. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=galatians+4:7');)
Galatians 4:7
I have been set free in Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=galatians+5:1');)
Galatians 5:1
I have been blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+1:3');)
Ephesians 1:3
I am chosen, holy, and blameless before God. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+1:4');)
Ephesians 1:4
I am redeemed and forgiven by the grace of Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+1:7');)
Ephesians 1:7
I have been predestined by God to obtain an inheritance. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+1:9-11');)
Ephesians 1:9-11
I have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+1:13');)
Ephesians 1:13
Because of God's mercy and love, I have been made alive with Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+2:4-5');)
Ephesians 2:4-5
I am seated in the heavenly places with Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+2:6');)
Ephesians 2:6
I am God's workmanship created to produce good works. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+2:10');)
Ephesians 2:10
I have been brought near to God by the blood of Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+2:13');)
Ephesians 2:13
I am a member of Christ's body and a partaker of His promise. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+3:6;ephesians+5:30');)
Ephesians 3:6; Ephesians 5:30
I have boldness and confident access to God through faith in Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+3:12');)
Ephesians 3:12
My new self is righteous and holy. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+4:22-24');)
Ephesians 4:22-24
I was formerly darkness, but now I am light in the Lord. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=ephesians+5:8');)
Ephesians 5:8
I am a citizen of heaven. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=philippians+3:20');)
Philippians 3:20
The peace of God guards my heart and mind. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=philippians+4:7');)
Philippians 4:7
God supplies all my needs. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=philippians+4:19');)
Philippians 4:19
I have been made complete in Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=colossians+2:9-10');)
Colossians 2:9-10
I have been raised up with Christ. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=colossians+3:1');)
Colossians 3:1
My life is hidden with Christ in God. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=colossians+3:3');)
Colossians 3:3
Christ is my life, and I will be revealed with him in glory. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=colossians+3:4');)
Colossians 3:4
I have been chosen of God, and I am holy and beloved. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=colossians+3:12');)
Colossians 3:12
God loves me and has chosen me. (javascript:openwindowlink('&passage=1thessalonians+1:4');)
1 Thessalonians 1:4
I am a child of God
John 1: 12
I am a joint-heir with Christ
Romans 8: 17
I am the righteousness of God in Christ.
2 Cor.5: 21
I am the temple of the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor. 6: 19
I am the apple of His eye.
Zec.2: 8
I am an ambassador for Christ
2 Cor.5: 20
I am free from condemnation
Romans 8: 1
I am more than a conqueror
Romans 8: 17
I am the salt of the earth
Mathew 5: 13
I am the light of the world
Mathew 5: 14 & Eph. 5: 8
I am a member of the household of faith
Gal.6 :10
I am a branch of the True Vine
John 15: 5
I am the will of God
James 1: 8
I am in the palm of the Lord’s Hand
Isa. 49: 16
I am covered by the shadow of His Hand
Isa. 51: 6
I am loved by God as much as He loves Jesus
John 17:23
I am in God’s Hand and none can pluck me out
John10:28
I am delivered from sin
Romans 6: 7
I am free from weaknesses and diseases
Matt.8: 17
I am complete in Him
Col.2: 10
I am translated into the kingdom of God’s Son
Col.1:13
I am delivered from the power of darkness
Col. 1: 13
I am accepted in Him
Eph. 1: 6
I am dead to sin and alive to God in Christ
Rom.6:11
I am seated in heavenly places in Christ
Eph. 2: 6
I am redeemed from the curse of the law
Gal. 3: 13
I am in Christ
1 Cor. 1: 30
I am hidden with Christ in God
Col. 3: 3


Yes you are hidden with Christ in God:hug:bless you<><
I may have some of these scriptures on here more then once but that is okay:kiss:makes it a double blessing. Praying that the Lord will continually draw you closer to himself...he is. Thank you Lord Jesus.:pray:

Marc B
Aug 5th 2008, 04:47 AM
http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?cat=&id=537






2 Cor. 6 - 7:1
14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 17 "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. 18 "And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty. 1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
We must be very careful in the way that we apply the Scriptures. The passage above does not discuss the marriage bond, marriage is not found in the context, and therefore, to apply these verses to marriage is wrong. I would go even one step further and say that to use the passage above to justify a divorce and remarriage is sinful. The context of the passage reveals that the problem with some of the members of the church at Corinth was a close association with Idolaters. It is evident that members of the church were participating with pagans in some of their rituals, and perhaps even promoted pagan concepts in their business dealings.
It is wrong for Christians to be so closely associated with that which is evil that it is difficult for people to tell the difference between a Christian and a pagan. Christians are to "come out from their midst and be separate" because we are to stand as "lights" in the world (Matt. 5:14).
To the Christian who is married to an unbeliever God says:
1 Cor. 7:10-14
10 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife. 12 But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
This teaching is clear. God is a witness to the marriage bond between a believer and an unbeliever and he instructs the believer to "not divorce his wife." "He must not divorce her." "She must not send her husband away." She must "be reconciled to her husband." "The unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband."
I don't know how it could be clearer. Marriage is a sacred bond between two individuals. Even if one is an unbeliever, this in and of itself does NOT change the nature of this sacred relationship. In circumstances where a Christian is married to an unbeliever it is the responsibility of the Christian to work that much more diligently to profess Christ in word and deed, in every action and attitude, prayerfully "walking in the light" (1 John 1:7) with the desire to lead their spouse to Christ.

When I read stories of people breaking up their marriages over matters of faith it makes my blood boil. How dare anyone try to break up a God ordained relationship. Noone knows the heart of this man and woman but God. It's not for us to judge him as an unfit husband for this woman. I'm married to a non believer myself and will not destroy my marriage which God has blessed just because my wife isn't a Christian. I will continue to love her and be an example to her instead of trying to convert her. When God is good and ready I trust He will open her heart on His terms, not mine and yet be saved. So if you love this man and he seems to have shown a lot of patience with you, stay with him and continue in your walk as an example to him but don't force Christianity down his throat, God doesn't force anyone to believe and neither should you, trust your Heavenly Father, He won't disappoint you. Your hubby may yet be saved Clayjar. Trust God. Remember what God says about marriage.
What God has joined together let no man put asunder.

lendtay
Aug 7th 2008, 03:26 AM
It is hard to be in a relationship, even a marriage, where two people have different beliefs. I am in such a relationship now. My husband does not have the same beliefs of Christianity that I have. I don't know if you'd say we are "unequally yoked" or not, but I know he does not believe the Bible is literal, or does not believe most of it is literal. He is not an atheist, he does believe in God, but he won't go to church with me. The more in love you are with a person, the more miserable you will be that he doesn't share your beliefs. I love my husband so much and wish he would go to church with me. I worry about his salvation on a daily basis. However, I've decided the best thing to do is not push or pressure him. I take a low key approach, one day at a time. I ask people to pray for him, also. I also realize I have been remiss in not putting more spiritual emphasis in our marriage.

livingwaters
Aug 10th 2008, 03:34 AM
It is very difficult to know that your loved ones don't care to share and enjoy the enthusiasm you have for the Lord.

Pray for a softening of hubbies heart toward church. Is there a reason why he doesn't go to church?

I have advised others in this way: you can't make them change their minds, but you can keep the Word all over the house, the car, the yard, the everywhere. You can type scriptures and tape them all over, you can put Christian cds on, dvds on. Sign up for e:mails with some ministries that teach the one and only Word. They will send you Christian magazines that may come in handy. It may suprise you, but they will listen and read when no one is watching (or so they think) If you have children in the house, I don't remember if you said, you pray with them in a family environment. Teach them the Word of God.

Even when you get tired, remember, Isaiah 40:31 (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Isaiah+40:31&version=9) (Whole Chapter) (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Isaiah+40&version=9)
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

God Bless!!:pp:pp:pp:pray::pray::pray:

karenoka27
Aug 10th 2008, 05:23 AM
Clayjar the original poster has not posted here since June 11th. Just thought I would let you all know. Hope she is doing ok.

thewgill
Oct 23rd 2008, 02:03 PM
Any updates from posters in this thread?

I have been greatly moved after reading through this, and had to ask.

Would love to find what the Lord has been up to in your lives.

ClayJar
Dec 29th 2008, 12:50 PM
Hi all

thewgill - Not sure if you are still checking this site anymore. It's been awhile - I haven't been writing in because for a while I wasn't really capable of writing anything, and I think I needed time away.

What has been happening... 6 months ago he wrote to me to say that he'd met someone and was going to ask her out - he thought by telling me I would 'feel more free' to move on. This was about 3 weeks after my last post here - at that time he was still trying to ask me to marry him. The pain was incredible at that time - I can't even think of being with someone else, how could he even think of asking someone out so soon? I think however hard it was, God knew I had to hear it. It meant either he's gotten over me and ready to move on already or he's using a new relationship to get over the hurt of the previous one.. either way, it confirmed that the kind of love he knows is not the kind God calls for a marriage between believers, it is not what I want or need. Roadwarrior was right when she said this is the way the world works.

Here is the beauty of God's grace and His love for his children:
The very same day I got his message, I also got a job offer - far away, in another state. I hadn't been jobhunting and didn't expect this offer - certainly not on that very day. I prayed for 3 weeks. I returned the call and gave a verbal yes. I was going to move far away, I was scared. The guy wrote me again soon after, out of the blue. He said he was contemplating a job change and asked about job opportunities where I worked. That's when I knew I had to go. I said please don't contact me again because it is not helping. I signed the contract, packed my bags with nothing to remind myself of him, and boarded the plane.

1 Cor 10:13 - No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

God's Word is truth.

Before I left, I shared my experiences with a few girlfriends. One has moved in with her boyfriend who is catholic - she has stopped attending church and now wants to take catechism classes. One is still going to church and getting her nonchristian boyfriend to go along. One who had stopped going to church ditched her nonchristian boyfriend and ended up meeting a Christian guy - she is now back in church and loving it. This is so not an uncommon temptation ground. I pray for my friends - praying for others helps me to remember the war for our souls is not only personal but communal.

God has kept me busy. My new job is very challenging. But I am also making sure it doesn't consume me and allow me to backslide again - so I'm trying to plant roots in a local church - one that seems really solid and I really like. Hopefully I can find a new home there where I can serve. I have met lots of friendly folk, male and female, Christian and nonChristian - a few guys at work and at church are expressing interest in getting to know me better. But I can't - I know I'm not ready and I am very wary of repeating the same painful mistakes again. I still think of the guy often - whether I have done so much damage as a Christian witness that he will never ever come to Christ, what is happening with him, whether or not I can ever be happy with anyone else - and the sadness can be overwhelming. I still miss him, believe it or not - but I am determined to keep away and I have. I am still trying to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. May the Spirit defeat Satan and win this war in me.

God knows me, and is gentle with me, and being in a different place, it is easier to cope. He has taught me more about His Spirit in me. I have to battle homesickness and I feel incredibly lonely sometimes. By myself at night I read my bible, to fill my mind with truth, afraid that my own thoughts will drown out the truth, and talk to Him - I will never trade Him again for anything! I don't know what will happen, I am so afraid of myself sometimes - all I know is, out of my comfort zone, I am physically away from the emotional prison, and I have nothing but my Lord and savior to cling to. His grace to me has been and still is, indescribably great. And for that, I will never stop praising Him. I pray that I will never leave Him again.

Roadwarrior, Befaithful, karenoka, servantsheart, god's child and everyone else who has written in and been praying for me - I never forgot praying for you and thanking God He put you on my path here. Praying that everyone is well and that the new year brings the resolution to walk ever closer with Him. May God bless you!

CJ

Ps: for anyone with any more energy to read on:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=152484

SeventhCOG
Mar 22nd 2009, 06:36 PM
I can really identify!! I am 56. At age 42 I was humming along nicely enough, I thought, all things considered. I had two boys I was raising alone and was homeschooling. They were hitting the puberty rebellion phase and for the first time in years I really felt loneliness that would make me vulnerable to the temptation of dating an unbeliever. I had not been dating anyone at all, since the loss of my boys dad many years earlier. I was not looking at all. Satan's minions saw a weak area that I had no clue existed. A man who was my age was friendly to me at a political meeting and eventually we went out on a date. I asked my several female Christian friends who were married if it was even okay to date an unbeliever, though I knew very well we were to not be unequally yolked. They encouraged me that it was fine, because I was the last person who anyone would have thought would get sucked in. I like you was strong on intellect and faith, but I was clueless about the emotional roller coaster ride I was stepping into. I was blindsided by the enemy. I fell into sexual sin and became emotionally bonded, soul tied. I went through the desperate phase. "Please, Please, Please!!! God, save him!!" Not just because he needed it, but for my selfish reasons. This went on for several months and demolished my mental (and physical) health. During that time I would go to church, but could not sit in the sanctuary, the guilt was overwhelming. I would go into an empty Sunday School room and get on my knees in front of a chair, in the dark and cry out to God for deliverance from the bondage I had put myself under. I would tell him I couldn't see him anymore, because my conscience was so guilty and that I belonged to God and we talked a lot about God. I had been raised on the "The love of a good woman will change him" fantasy. Of course, you cannot change anyone! I learned a great deal from this experience. I hurt my Lord, my children, myself, my relationships with my Christian friends. The ones who should have come to me right away when they saw what was happening, kept silent. I was too weak. God let me literally get deathly ill from the consequences of not taking care of myself and continuing this relationship spawned in the pit. Yes, he was honest and forthright and eventually talked marriage, tried very hard to keep me hooked in, but when it ended he was angry and definately not closer to becoming a christian. Some time passed and I went into therapy for various reasons and began to see what it was I was acting out and acting on that made me vulnerable to someone who did not share my core values. Did not share all that matters in this world to me and to God, who is so important to me. I think a good way to get free of the temptation is to begin to see that this was an all out demonic attack from a spiritual perspective. Satan's minions want to wreck our faith and our relationship with God! This man you dated is an enemy of God!! He may never be saved. What fellowship does darkness have with light? Our flesh wants what it wants! And I don't mean to sound unmerciful or uncompassionate, I really understand. But, in the sober light of day I have no tender feelings, all these years later for the relationship I had, because there was nothing of God in it. The best thing for me was to get time and space between and see the treachery that was afoot!! And to ask myself what it was about me that was in need of sanctification or maturing or fixing, that would make me willing to conceive of a marriage without Jesus in the center. The dictionary definition of a friend begins with the idea of trust. I know this may sound legalistic and rigid, but I honestly believe that the only reason to have unsaved friends is to have the opportunity to witness to them. As a woman you are especially vulnerable, because a woman has a natural need and calling to submit to a male. I don't trust myself, I don't trust people and I don't even trust my christian friends. We must put our self in the Lords hands and let Him pick our friends and partners. This is the conclusion I have come to. God has blessed me with new Christian friends over the years. We attempt to keep it real and hold each other accountable. We have similar battles with our brokeness and our strengths and gifts. We of course, have the wisdom of our years of screwing things up and having God's forgiveness and refining. Maybe, there is someone God has for you, after you have learned what the lessons for yourself are here. I pray you will soberly consider what I have said. :hmm: Love, in Christ.

Catielle
Apr 3rd 2009, 04:18 PM
Below is a short message from someone who "knows" God. I hope you find it a blessing. I understand what you're going through. Just know that God is on it......and you're being covered in prayer. ;)

Alone Doesn't Have to Mean Lonely
by Joyce Meyer


A major problem facing many people today is loneliness. As I travel the world, I see an increasing number of people requesting help and guidance on handling loneliness in their lives.

In the Bible God tells us we are not alone. He wants to deliver, comfort and heal us. But when people encounter painful losses in their lives, sadly, many never get over them. Sometimes when sudden tragedy occurs, the hurt seems unbearable. Without help, a sense of loneliness can actually settle on a person or family like a cloud, and it doesn't seem to go away.

There are many causes of loneliness, but many people don't realize that they don't have to live with it. They can confront it and deal with it. Loneliness often manifests as an inner ache, a vacuum, or a craving for affection. Its side effects include feelings of emptiness, uselessness or purposelessness.

Are you alone (independent, solitary, on your own)? Or, are you lonely (desolate, deserted, dejected due to a lack of companionship)? There is a very real difference. It’s important to realize that just because you are alone, it doesn't mean you must be lonely or lonesome. While it may not always be possible to avoid being alone, there are always answers to loneliness. Many times loneliness results from a trauma or crisis due to the death of a loved one, a divorce, or separation. When something happens that makes us realize that things are never going to be the way they once were, it often creates crisis or trauma in our lives, which can lead to a sense of loneliness and despair.

Like a healing wound, the pain may be felt for a long time, but complete recovery requires daily improvement. When a physical wound refuses to heal, it indicates there’s an infection that must be dealt with. I believe the same is true of emotional wounds: the emotional part of us should heal just like the physical part of us. God gave us emotions just as He gave us physical bodies. He has provided for our emotional restoration in Him just as He has provided for it physically. While it is true that you may always miss the person or the thing that was lost, it doesn’t mean that you must suffer permanent loneliness.

I believe there are two things anyone wishing to overcome loneliness must do:

1. Know that God is with you all the time. In the Bible God reminds us that He is always with us and He'll never forsake us (see Hebrews 13:5). Loneliness often leads us to ask ourselves all sorts of questions that can't be answered, such as: What if I am alone for the rest of my life? What if this pain I am feeling never goes away? What if a problem arises that I don't know how to handle on my own? What if...what if...what if...? The questions could go on and on endlessly. Chances are, you'll never be able to answer the "what ifs" in life. But as long as you know that the Lord is with you, you can be assured that He has all the answers you need.

2. Press aggressively into a new life. Not everything in your life is over; just one part of it has ended. One season has passed and another can now begin—if you are willing to take action. Don't just passively sit and wait for something to happen or someone to come along. Go make new friends. Find someone else who is lonely and be a friend to that person. You will reap what you sow, and God will return that friendship many times over.

Let the loneliness you feel turn into compassion for other lonely people, and then decide to do something about it!

nmnc
Nov 29th 2012, 02:14 PM
ClayJar,

I came across this thread last night and I was blown away - I am (hopefully nearing the end of) a situation that is almost identical to yours. I realize it has been four years, and I don't know if you check this thread anymore or receive email notifications of new posts, but I wanted to see if you wouldn't mind sharing the developments since your last post; it would be great to have some insight from someone much further removed than I am and with the benefit of hindsight and, I'm sure, much sanctification.

Thank you so much, and I hope you are doing well.