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Untamed
Jan 2nd 2008, 09:53 PM
Besides the bible itself do you read any other ancient text, either for a source or just curiosity, fun, etc?

Lefty
Jan 2nd 2008, 10:14 PM
Josephus.

I've been studying Luke lately and came across the Lord's prophecy concerning Jerusalem being encircled with an embankment built around it, and no stone left on another, then had the urge to see how it was fulfilled in a more detailed, historical account. Josephus, the Jewish historian, who was present at the scene and attempting to serve as a mediator between the Romans and rebellious Jews, wrote an account that confirmed what Jesus had said about 40 years previous. Amazing and faith strengthening. The book is a very important work and covers the history of the Jews from antiquity to the fall of Masada in 73ad..

The Confessions of Augustine.

A classic. The intimate, personal account of a lifetime's walk with God by one of the great Church leaders. A favorite of Catholics and Protestants alike.

Untamed
Jan 2nd 2008, 10:30 PM
Thanks Lefty

I have read some of Josephus as well but not finished all his works, the same with Philo. I am currently reading thru the Talmud and the Zohar, they are very interesting but are quite large filling many volumes making them a lengthy project.

Untamed

bjones
Jan 2nd 2008, 11:49 PM
My ip address will be found in the logs at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ more than once.

Teke
Jan 2nd 2008, 11:52 PM
Besides the bible itself do you read any other ancient text, either for a source or just curiosity, fun, etc?

Yeah, the early fathers. That is if you can get them. In your own language would be a plus too. Some of the best things are hard to find. :)

Sherrie
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:02 AM
Flavius Josephus

Especially like this:

JOSEPHUS'S DISCOURSE TO THE GREEKS CONCERNING HADES...

http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/josephus/hades.htm

Clifton
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:04 AM
Besides the bible itself do you read any other ancient text, either for a source or just curiosity, fun, etc?
Yes, I have been reading ancient texts for about a couple of decades now - maybe longer.

I read early christians writings by 'fathers' in the early ages - Ireneaus, Josephus, Eusebius, The Book Of Enoch, Justin Martyr, and so on. I read a little by heathens, where christian validation is concerned... tacitus, etc.

Back in the 1980's (when I finished reading the Bible all the way through), I bought The Lost Books Of The Bible and The Forgotten Books Of Eden. I was really moved within my heart reading The Books Of Adam and Eve (I & II), and woah, I so much loved The Secrets Of Enoch - soooo scientifically astonishing!

I do this because I have an interest in my christian history and culture - one thing for sure, I see they were making mistakes like we have these days - some of the same ones, even some of the same, uh, "misinterpretations" might be the correct word?

Blessings,
Clifton

Untamed
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:28 AM
If memory serves me here, Sacred-texts.com has some prechristian pseudepigraphs, apocrypha and books like Jasher, 1Enoch, etc.

I enjoyed many of those, one pseudepigraph actually answered a question I had that not one person was able to answer for me. A question not answered in any text, nope not even the bible.

Untamed

Clifton
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:35 AM
Josephus.

I've been studying Luke lately and came across the Lord's prophecy concerning Jerusalem being encircled with an embankment built around it, and no stone left on another, then had the urge to see how it was fulfilled in a more detailed, historical account. Josephus, the Jewish historian, who was present at the scene and attempting to serve as a mediator between the Romans and rebellious Jews, wrote an account that confirmed what Jesus had said about 40 years previous. Amazing and faith strengthening. The book is a very important work and covers the history of the Jews from antiquity to the fall of Masada in 73ad..


Here is a clip from Josephus:

...It happened at the end of this Second Passover in 66: “A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” 19 A fourth sign occurred inside the Temple on the next great feast day, and was witnessed by the twenty-four priests who were on duty: “At the feast called Pentecost, when the priests had entered the inner courts of the Temple by night to perform their usual ministrations, they declared that they were aware, first, of a violent commotion and din, then of a voice as of a host crying, ‘We are departing hence!’ “20 There was a fifth sign in the heavens that year: “A star that looked like a sword stood over the city and a comet that continued for a whole year.”...

I think the correct reference to that The Jewish War, vi.v.3. 20.; but also note this was by writing of Tacitus, confirmed:

the summary of these events by the Roman historian Tacitus: “In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure” (Histories, v.13).

Blessings,
Clifton

walked
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:43 AM
All things work toward the good of those who love God.

Untamed
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:52 AM
Clifton

Yes when I first read that it stuck in my mind for quite awhile, reminded me of portions of texts like Ezekiel and Isaiah.

Untamed

punk
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:54 AM
Sophocles, Euripides, Plato...

Untamed
Jan 3rd 2008, 12:55 AM
Here is a question for anyone that cares to answer it.

What text eludes to black rain?

There is only one that I know of.

Untamed

bjones
Jan 3rd 2008, 01:56 AM
The ancient codex of Ozzie Ozbourne?

Lefty
Jan 3rd 2008, 02:17 AM
This sounds like a Jeopardy question out of the $150,000 category. I think I'll sit this one out.:o

Untamed
Jan 3rd 2008, 02:38 AM
Actually black rain is an important thing concerning visions because of what it symbolizes.

Untamed

Untamed
Jan 3rd 2008, 07:39 AM
Baruch 2 is the text and black rain represents iniquity.

Untamed

Clifton
Jan 3rd 2008, 03:46 PM
I forgot about the Book of Nicodemus, which I enjoyed. It is close to St. Matthew, but relates other things. For one, I glean from the text that the two witnesses referred to in the Orthodox Version of Revelation is Enoch and Elijah. The snippet is as follows, from Chapter 20:
Then the Lord holding Adam by the hand, delivered him to Michael the archangel; and he led them into Paradise, filled with mercy and glory;
And two very ancient men met them, and were asked by the saints, Who are ye, who have not yet been with us in hell, and have had your bodies placed in Paradise?
One of them answering, said, I am Enoch, who was translated by the word of God: {#Ge 5:24} and this man who is with me, is Elijah the Tishbite, who was translated in a fiery chariot. {#2Ki 2:11}
Here we have hitherto been, and have not tasted death, but are now about to return at the coming of Antichrist, being armed with divine signs and miracles, to engage with him in battle, and to be slain by him at Jerusalem, and to be taken up alive again into the clouds, after three days and a half. {#Re 11:11}Then the text goes on in regards to the "repentant thief" crucified next to Christ, which was there in "paradise" with them and others.

And of course, there is the text source (and a modification and repair by me and another), which I have term as "Revelation Q" - I'll go into some detail about that later.

Blessings and Happy New Year,
Clifton

Toymom
Jan 3rd 2008, 03:52 PM
Flavius Josephus

Especially like this:

JOSEPHUS'S DISCOURSE TO THE GREEKS CONCERNING HADES...

http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/josephus/hades.htm
Hmm, i wonder if Dante read that? Have you read the Inferno part of The Divine Comedy? Total fiction, but very imaginative and a good read.

Clifton
Jan 4th 2008, 01:51 AM
If memory serves me here, Sacred-texts.com has some prechristian pseudepigraphs, apocrypha and books like Jasher, 1Enoch, etc.

I enjoyed many of those, one pseudepigraph actually answered a question I had that not one person was able to answer for me. A question not answered in any text, nope not even the bible.

Untamed


Robert Henry Charles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._H._Charles) (God Rest his soul) brought us the translations of the Pseudopigraphs - he was more than just a translator, he was also linguistic, among many other things. He set the order (the sequence) of the Book Of Enoch quite well - like Matthew and Revelation, it too, was in disorder, but he set Revelation in order as well (I am using it for my "Jap Consecution" Project, and things are brought out so better and more proper now). This work was a 25 year work, in addition to the 8 he already had. The result came out in 1920 thus the copyright has expired. The work was entitled: "A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on The Revelation of St. John” (http://justgoodneighbors.com/apocalypse.html),"

He also did one on Daniel as well. In regards to Revelation, and John The Seer, Charles stated that "it is shown that without a knowledge of The Pseudepigrapha it would be impossible to understand The Seer."

Harvey Klein has produced Charles' English with minor update, he calls it Nazarene Apocalypse (http://justgoodneighbors.com/nazareneapocalypse.html). The footnotes, headings, interpolations, and comments are removed and it is just the better sequenced English of the Orthodox Revelation.

As for my "Jap Consecution" project, it is in WP format and I am making for the benefits of others and give it to others which can load it up in the word processor - add/remove/change footnotes/headings, or whatever they want to do (since they may not share the same viewpoints, e.g. "The Contemporary-Historical Method of Interpretation".

I got the summaries for the chapters done, but would like to proofread'em a little more, and update as deemed necessary. But I'll offer Klein's text as well - there are occurrences where two words inadvertently run together.


Blessings and Happy New Year,
Κλιφτον Ρη Ηοδζης

Untamed
Jan 4th 2008, 05:47 AM
Clifton
Thank you for the links

R.H. Charles really set the standard, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading/studying the books edited and introduced by him.

The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old testament volume one and volume two are most excellent, both for study and or just a pleasure to read.

Untamed