PDA

View Full Version : Are we responsible?



mikebr
Jan 5th 2008, 02:13 AM
What would cause God to make humans responsible for his getting what He wants?

jeffweeder
Jan 5th 2008, 04:03 AM
Because God made man a certain way and he didnt live up to it.
He formed and molded us, yet we do nasty things before him.
It looks very much as though we were responsible, because Jesus had to go through a very real terror, in order to achieve a way back to God for us.We are/were guilty.
I can see why hell was created for the devil and his angels and all who turn their backs on the true image of God.

Who better to prepare a place for us in God than Jesus Christ of Nazereth.

Athanasius
Jan 5th 2008, 04:06 AM
What would cause God to make humans responsible for his getting what He wants?

I think I know where you're going with this, but could you elaborate?

mikebr
Jan 5th 2008, 01:16 PM
I think I know where you're going with this, but could you elaborate?

We are told that we are to fulfill the will of God. It seems to me that God's will cannot be independent of who He is. It's like me having kids just to do what I want done because I can't do it myself.

Brother Mark
Jan 5th 2008, 01:22 PM
We are told that we are to fulfill the will of God. It seems to me that God's will cannot be independent of who He is. It's like me having kids just to do what I want done because I can't do it myself.

Balance in life is very important. Parents have children to love them. But that doesn't mean they ignore their behavior. We are not saved to serve, but serving is part of being saved. We are saved to love and adore God. But that doesn't mean God won't hold us responsible for our actions.

Duane Morse
Jan 5th 2008, 01:22 PM
Why does this thread seem so much like a bait of some kind?

Friend of I AM
Jan 5th 2008, 01:28 PM
What would cause God to make humans responsible for his getting what He wants?

I think God is just trying to share the fullness of his love with others - not stating that he himself is dependant on anything. This I believe represents the perfection of his love, he is not selfish - but desires to share his love with others. He could have just sat and created a bunch of automatons to do whatever he commanded and forcefully make them do whatever he said - but I think out of the perfection of his love - he chose not to do so seeing as how this would not be the most loving course of action to partake in.

9Marksfan
Jan 5th 2008, 04:32 PM
I think God is just trying to share the fullness of his love with others - not stating that he himself is dependant on anything. This I believe represents the perfection of his love, he is not selfish

So if God's glory isn't the centre of all He is and does, what is then?


- but desires to share his love with others. He could have just sat and created a bunch of automatons to do whatever he commanded and forcefully make them do whatever he said - but I think out of the perfection of his love - he chose not to do so seeing as how this would not be the most loving course of action to partake in.

Scripture tells us that God "works all things according to the counsel of His will" Eph 1:11b NKJV - are you saying that God chose not to create the world and all that is in it for His own good pleasure?

mikebr
Jan 5th 2008, 05:21 PM
Why does this thread seem so much like a bait of some kind?


Maybe its of what you know of me, Duane. But no bait here. I thought it was a pretty straight forward question.

If God is all in all can we add to what He is by fulfilling His will?

Brother Mark
Jan 5th 2008, 05:23 PM
If God is all in all can we add to what He is by fulfilling His will?

Can't add to him, but we sure can please him. And pleasing one whom we love is very fullfilling. In other words, pleasing him is fulfilling to us.

mikebr
Jan 5th 2008, 05:30 PM
Can't add to him, but we sure can please him. And pleasing one whom we love is very fullfilling. In other words, pleasing him is fulfilling to us.

So are we responsible for getting what we want? To tell the truth BrotherMark that seems sort of selfish to me. I'll please you to get what I want. In other words I'll attempt to please God so that I can be (feel)fulfilled.

Brother Mark
Jan 5th 2008, 05:38 PM
So are we responsible for getting what we want? To tell the truth BrotherMark that seems sort of selfish to me. I'll please you to get what I want. In other words I'll attempt to please God so that I can be (feel)fulfilled.

Well the word does say that without faith it is impossible to please him and that we must believe he is and that he is a rewarder of those that diligently seek him. Faith has a reward. Part of the reason for believing is the reward. Is that selfish? Naw. Jesus said "for the joy laid before him, he endured the cross". We know Jesus wasn't selfish. Yet, it was for the joy that he did it. When you love somebody, you don't mind doing it for them. Or when you have great awe and respect you don't mind doing it for them. Both are powerful motivators and God uses both to help us be all we can be.

Friend of I AM
Jan 5th 2008, 05:42 PM
So if God's glory isn't the centre of all He is and does, what is then?

Scripture tells us that God "works all things according to the counsel of His will" Eph 1:11b NKJV - are you saying that God chose not to create the world and all that is in it for His own good pleasure?


God is the center of all there is. But the perfection of his love is demonstrated through a desire to share with others this good pleasure he created for himself. Does he need anyone to share this love with? Of course not. But being that his love is perfect, sharing is what he does:

1 Corinthians 13:4-5
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,

God is not selfish. His desire to share with others, along with many of his other attributes(patience, righteousnous, etc) are what make his love perfect.

Friend of I AM
Jan 5th 2008, 05:49 PM
Well the word does say that without faith it is impossible to please him and that we must believe he is and that he is a rewarder of those that diligently seek him. Faith has a reward. Part of the reason for believing is the reward. Is that selfish? Naw. Jesus said "for the joy laid before him, he endured the cross". We know Jesus wasn't selfish. Yet, it was for the joy that he did it. When you love somebody, you don't mind doing it for them. Or when you have great awe and respect you don't mind doing it for them. Both are powerful motivators and God uses both to help us be all we can be.

Good points. Also wanted to add that perhaps the reward to some is just being with him - and sharing in a loving relationship with him. If his love is perfect, then I think that should be enough for me and everyone else to desire a relationship him.

Duane Morse
Jan 5th 2008, 10:05 PM
If God is all in all can we add to what He is by fulfilling His will?
It depends on what you mean by "add to what He is", I would think.

If you mean, can we help add a dimension to His fundamentally singular and non-corporeal nature - then I would answer 'yes' to your question, because it is through Man that God can fully realize a physical nature and actually partake in a loving relationship.

Giving us the free will to love Him or not replaces a single one-way street with a multi-lane two-way street, complete with on and off ramps and side streets and rest areas.

Soj
Jan 5th 2008, 10:17 PM
What would cause God to make humans responsible for his getting what He wants?Giving His only begotten Son as a sacrifice for sins, so those who would believe could be reconciled to Him.


If God is all in all can we add to what He is by fulfilling His will?God isn't "all in all" yet, that is still future...

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

9Marksfan
Jan 5th 2008, 10:41 PM
God is the center of all there is. But the perfection of his love is demonstrated through a desire to share with others this good pleasure he created for himself. Does he need anyone to share this love with? Of course not. But being that his love is perfect, sharing is what he does:

1 Corinthians 13:4-5
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,

God is not selfish. His desire to share with others, along with many of his other attributes(patience, righteousnous, etc) are what make his love perfect.

But because God is perfect, it is not wrong for Him to be self-centred, for He is the greatest being in the universe and our greatest joy is found in Him! So as He shares His love, He calls us to look to Him and find our greatest good in gazing upon the blazing centre of His glory! :)