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AtHisFeet
Jan 13th 2008, 10:04 PM
OK, this is obviously a spin-off of the "Does obedience save? (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=111239)" thread.

I believe that all my sin is covered by the blood of Jesus. Sin in the past, present, and future as well as sin that's hidden or unknown and known sin.

I believe that there's no excuse for continuing down the road of obvious disobedience and intentional sin and I also believe that we should strive to live our lives to the very best of our ability. I believe there should be a change of mind(repentance) regarding sin and that we should hate it and strive as much as humanly possible to rid our lives of it by prayer, earnest hearts, and a merciful work of deliverance by our King.

Having said all that, what happens when I fail?

In the other thread, it was hinted that failing meant I wasn't really saved or that quite possibly I was outside of God's grace.

I don't believe that.

So I'm asking your opinions on this matter. I know there's a lot of seasoned members here and you know how each other believe, but for the sake of this thread, if you wouldn't mind restating for a newbie it would be appreciated.

In short, is my sin more powerful than Jesus' sacrifice?

Can my sin 'undo' what Christ did for me on the cross?

Or does my sin continually put me in a state of 'now I'm saved, now I'm not. Now I am again, now I'm not again.'

Thanks for taking the time to respond and I appreciate all the posters here. This place is pretty awesome.:)

ProjectPeter
Jan 14th 2008, 06:01 PM
IF you sin... you have an advocate with the Father. But stop sinning! You know I had to get that in there. :lol:

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 14th 2008, 06:25 PM
I believe that continued disobedience could at some point in time cause you to be condemned. It's certainly not a road one should travel for long. And even if you're not condemned this is what scripture has to say about this:

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.


Shalom,
Tanja

Diggindeeper
Jan 14th 2008, 06:47 PM
James 4:17
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Extremely plain and clear Bible language, it seems to me!

Joshua 24:20-24

20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD.

22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel.

24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.


2 Chronicles 15:1-2
1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:

2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

I heard you. You are saying, "But, those are Old Testament scriptures!"

Okay, I'll go on to the New Testament....

John 15:

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Straight from the mouth of Christ Jesus himself!

Disobedience itself does not condemn us, but our own WILLFULL disobedience does! Here is the scriptural definition of condemnation:

John 3:19
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

AlainaJ
Jan 14th 2008, 06:49 PM
hello,

That is one of those hard questions.

I beleive if you are truly born again and saved...your salvation is secure.

However, many will say in that day Lord , Lord..and Jesus will reply, I have never known you...you workers of iniquity..or meaning sinners.

The change of heart...when you are born again..brings conviction and knowledge of sin. Now we all sin...but I can't enjoy sinning or take pleasure in sinful behavior. Because the Holy Spirit convicts me.


I also feel the need to repent when I have sinned....so the question is can a Christian intentially disobey God?.....yes. Can God bring them back like the prodigal son yes.

However, many may think they are saved and are living in diobedience and sin , They just be deluding them selves. They may have religion, but not a saving faith....they may not have been born again.

God Bless

Buck shot
Jan 14th 2008, 07:49 PM
In short, is my sin more powerful than Jesus' sacrifice?

Can my sin 'undo' what Christ did for me on the cross?

Or does my sin continually put me in a state of 'now I'm saved, now I'm not. Now I am again, now I'm not again.'

Thanks for taking the time to respond and I appreciate all the posters here. This place is pretty awesome.:)


I'm a newby too but I want to share.
For the first question, how powerful do you believe Jesus is? You have to answer this for yourself. I believe for me to question is simple. He gave it all to pay for it all (past, present, and future sins). His sacrifice was so pure it had to be done only once.

Can my sin undo something Christ did? No way , who do I think I am? I cannot do anything to compare to what He did! If you tried to use a scale to compare your sin against His sacrifice, where would you find one that could measure Him?

Sometimes we forget who He really is, I take that back. I don't think we are able to grasp just how awesome our Father IS!:pp

1 Corinthians 3:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=3&verse=15&version=9&context=verse)
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

tgallison
Jan 14th 2008, 08:50 PM
I believe that continued disobedience could at some point in time cause you to be condemned. It's certainly not a road one should travel for long. And even if you're not condemned this is what scripture has to say about this:

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.


Shalom,
Tanja

Tanja Hi

The question, what is the full scope of receiving the knowledge of the truth, has to be answered in order to determine the meaning of that verse.

Does that mean, after hearing the good news, we reject it and go on sinning?

Or does it mean, after we believe in Jesus and are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

terrell

John146
Jan 14th 2008, 09:50 PM
I believe that continued disobedience could at some point in time cause you to be condemned. It's certainly not a road one should travel for long. And even if you're not condemned this is what scripture has to say about this:

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

Shalom,
Tanja

Your point would be valid only if "receiving the knowledge of the truth" is equivalent to becoming saved. I'm not so sure that is the case, though. I think it has more to do with people hearing the gospel clearly preached and not responding to it and continuing in their sinful lifestyle.

AtHisFeet
Jan 14th 2008, 09:54 PM
So are people who are unsuccessful in defeating addictions lost?

There can't be a saved addict?:confused

I believe there can be.

I believe the heart that says "I've said the prayer and I have this addiction that I can't help so I'm gonna go with it"--might be a lost heart.

But the heart that says "I've said the prayer and I have this addiction that I can't help but I'm never going to quit fighting and I trust the Lord Jesus to deliver me and forgive me"--might not be a lost heart.

Regardless of whether either one has achieved victory over the flesh.

Is that a false teaching?

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 14th 2008, 10:30 PM
The question, what is the full scope of receiving the knowledge of the truth, has to be answered in order to determine the meaning of that verse.

Does that mean, after hearing the good news, we reject it and go on sinning?

Or does it mean, after we believe in Jesus and are sealed with the Holy Spirit?
If God has tought me the truth in saying you shall not steal, and i then go on stealing, am i walking in truth or in darkness ? If we reject truth and not practise it, can we be saved ?

To mind comes:
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.




Your point would be valid only if "receiving the knowledge of the truth" is equivalent to becoming saved. I'm not so sure that is the case, though. I think it has more to do with people hearing the gospel clearly preached and not responding to it and continuing in their sinful lifestyle.

2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.


2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Shalom,
Tanja

danield
Jan 14th 2008, 10:32 PM
I believe that there's no excuse for continuing down the road of obvious disobedience and intentional sin and I also believe that we should strive to live our lives to the very best of our ability. I believe there should be a change of mind(repentance) regarding sin and that we should hate it and strive as much as humanly possible to rid our lives of it by prayer, earnest hearts, and a merciful work of deliverance by our King.
I think this statement says a lot. And obviously we do this because we love the lord and his ways. But your next questions opens up a whole lot of responses.


In short, is my sin more powerful than Jesus' sacrifice?
There is only one unforgivable sin all the rest can be covered by Christs work on the cross.




Can my sin 'undo' what Christ did for me on the cross?


No! But the main thought here is your heart. Did you heart get changed where you become a slave to sin? Did you want to sin more than you love Christ? You see I am not a Once saved always saved person and one of the main reasons I am not is because I know humans are not the same today as they were yesterday and as they will be in the future. Only God is that. People do have a change of heart from time to time. They decide to follow Christ this year, but they may convert to Islam next year. I do not believe this is acceptable in the sight of our lord. Nor do I think it is acceptable for someone to go out and live in adultery and it becomes acceptable in the sight of the lord. Look at King Herod when John the Baptist was on him about living with his brother’s wife. I do not think that was acceptable no matter what people say on this board or anywhere else in this world. I am sure king Herod was a very religious man. Religion was a main way of life for the Jew’s of that time, and I believe that he found a girl he fell head over heals in love with. So he loved her more than he loved God. But if you do not believe that king Herod was a religious man, then look at the merchants of the temple that sold animals for people to buy to sacrifice for their sins. These people were probably very religious. They had jobs in front of the temple itself but Jesus got mad at them because there were cheating the very people who were coming to be forgiven for their sins. Christ showed them that it was a den of thieves. Do you think the Pharisees would have put bad people just outside their temple to sell the very thing that the Jews needed to buy in order to get forgiveness of their sins? Those same Pharisees were chastising Christ for going to eat with sinners. Do you think they would allow those very people to put up store fronts in front of the greatest temple of Jerusalem? No they wouldn’t. And Christ knew that sin was wrong, and to allow it to happen in such a holy place was very, very bad. It was so bad that it made Christ mad! Sin is wrong. If anyone tells us that it is ok to sin they are wrong. The bible is full of passages condemning it. If I had to list them all it would take forever to write this post. Now what happens in salvation is the change of heart. You do not want to sin. If you find yourself in sin, you will stop sinning and pray to the lord to give you strength to give you more self-control. We all will sin and there is no way around it, but the key is that we are not slaves to sin. And when I mean slaves to sin I mean that sin does not control you or your heart, but only God controls your heart. Again let’s look at King Herod. We all know he was living in adultery. Now if he would have taken John’s advice and found a proper wife and asked the Lord for forgiveness he would have been fine. I think your first statement sums things up extremely well. This is the way I see it.

SammeyDW
Jan 14th 2008, 10:53 PM
Personally,
I think alot has to do with how we react when we are confronted with our sin.
Do we act like king David ("Where is a nice rock I can crawl under" / full of guilt and shame)
or do we react more like the Pharisees ("Of course I did/didn't do that" / so full of self pride that you think you can do no wrong / everything you do is good no matter what it is.).

tgallison
Jan 14th 2008, 10:59 PM
If God has tought me the truth in saying you shall not steal, and i then go on stealing, am i walking in truth or in darkness ? If we reject truth and not practise it, can we be saved ?

To mind comes:
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.




Shalom,
Tanja

Tanja

I thought I was saying the same thing as John 146.

It is one thing to have knowledge of Jesus Christ, and another thing to accept him as Lord and Saviour, and be sealed by the Holy Spirit, waiting for the day of redemption, from this body of sin.

In Jesus Christ, terrell

tango
Jan 14th 2008, 11:13 PM
It seems to me that accepting Jesus as your Saviour gets you a place in heaven. When you have God's spirit inside you, why would you want to sin?

But even if you do sin, this passage in 1 Corinthians seems to sum things up:


1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
1Co 3:11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
1Co 3:13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


If you've got your foundations set but then build with hay and straw it will all be destroyed, but you will be saved. Build with gold and silver and your works will endure.

Partaker of Christ
Jan 14th 2008, 11:16 PM
I believe that continued disobedience could at some point in time cause you to be condemned. It's certainly not a road one should travel for long. And even if you're not condemned this is what scripture has to say about this:

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.


Shalom,
Tanja

Hi Tanja!

IMO, The verses you quote are not about a saved person in Christ.

The writer was speaking about those who were still doing daily sacrifice for sin. Trampling the blood of Christ underfoot.


My understanding:
If after receiving the knowledge of the truth, (Christ died once for all sin) 'there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins' and we [Jews] go on sinning deliberately (by offering daily sacrifices) there is but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries

SDG
Jan 14th 2008, 11:45 PM
Hebrews 3 (NKJV)

1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,

2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house.

3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house.

4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.

5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward,

6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“ Today, if you will hear His voice,

8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,

9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.

10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’

11 So I swore in My wrath,

‘ They shall not enter My rest.’”

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

15 while it is said:

“ Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?

17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


As Spurgeon once put it: "Since your hearts are deceitful and sin is deceitful, you are in peril, indeed!" There is forgiveness for sin (disobedience) even after conversion. The Bible states that clearly. However, the one who continues in sin with the presumed "trump card" of forgiveness is wandering precariously close to the cliff of a hardened heart - because sin is deceitful! Just a little step where he thinks it is nothing and can be recovered from, yet he may wake up one day in torment, realizing that he was rebelling all those "forty years."

For, if one's heart thinks thus continually of sin, is it not possible that he may have an evil heart of unbelief that would depart from the Living God?

Each one of us needs to pray for the grace to see the wickedness of our own sins, and sin in general, and to depart from it. As Spurgeon also said on his sermon on this text: "Let no man in this place think that he cannot be deceived—he is already deluded by his pride."

As for whether disobedience condemns us, we have comfort of forgiveness to all who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. However, disobedience is a fruit of unbelief, which is hidden to many by the deceitfulness of sin, and "we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief" (v. 19).

Let us therefore "beware," "exhort one another" and most of all "consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus" -- "who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us" (2 Cor 2:10). :pp

Josh

AtHisFeet
Jan 15th 2008, 01:55 AM
I think this statement says a lot. And obviously we do this because we love the lord and his ways. But your next questions opens up a whole lot of responses.


There is only one unforgivable sin all the rest can be covered by Christs work on the cross.



No! But the main thought here is your heart. Did you heart get changed where you become a slave to sin? Did you want to sin more than you love Christ? You see I am not a Once saved always saved person and one of the main reasons I am not is because I know humans are not the same today as they were yesterday and as they will be in the future. Only God is that. People do have a change of heart from time to time. They decide to follow Christ this year, but they may convert to Islam next year. I do not believe this is acceptable in the sight of our lord. Nor do I think it is acceptable for someone to go out and live in adultery and it becomes acceptable in the sight of the lord. Look at King Herod when John the Baptist was on him about living with his brotherís wife. I do not think that was acceptable no matter what people say on this board or anywhere else in this world. I am sure king Herod was a very religious man. Religion was a main way of life for the Jewís of that time, and I believe that he found a girl he fell head over heals in love with. So he loved her more than he loved God. But if you do not believe that king Herod was a religious man, then look at the merchants of the temple that sold animals for people to buy to sacrifice for their sins. These people were probably very religious. They had jobs in front of the temple itself but Jesus got mad at them because there were cheating the very people who were coming to be forgiven for their sins. Christ showed them that it was a den of thieves. Do you think the Pharisees would have put bad people just outside their temple to sell the very thing that the Jews needed to buy in order to get forgiveness of their sins? Those same Pharisees were chastising Christ for going to eat with sinners. Do you think they would allow those very people to put up store fronts in front of the greatest temple of Jerusalem? No they wouldnít. And Christ knew that sin was wrong, and to allow it to happen in such a holy place was very, very bad. It was so bad that it made Christ mad! Sin is wrong. If anyone tells us that it is ok to sin they are wrong. The bible is full of passages condemning it. If I had to list them all it would take forever to write this post. Now what happens in salvation is the change of heart. You do not want to sin. If you find yourself in sin, you will stop sinning and pray to the lord to give you strength to give you more self-control. We all will sin and there is no way around it, but the key is that we are not slaves to sin. And when I mean slaves to sin I mean that sin does not control you or your heart, but only God controls your heart. Again letís look at King Herod. We all know he was living in adultery. Now if he would have taken Johnís advice and found a proper wife and asked the Lord for forgiveness he would have been fine. I think your first statement sums things up extremely well. This is the way I see it.

That's an awesome post.

Thank you for that!:)

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 15th 2008, 01:55 AM
If after receiving the knowledge of the truth, (Christ died once for all sin) 'there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins' and we [Jews] go on sinning deliberately (by offering daily sacrifices) there is but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries

If you think so.... I personally cannot see that scripture to be about the Jews only, because the scriptures are not for Jews only or else God would never have bothered to make sure we get the whole book. And why would it speak of the blood which has sanctified such a person in the verses preceding the ones i posted.

It does not speak about daily sacrifices or temple sacrifices, so to assume that is does is a big stretch IMO.

Rather i believe this speaks of a believer who doesn't show him/herself worthy of the blood of Christ which He shed for the remission of sins in His mercy and love for man.

There are parables that speak to the same end, one being of the ruler who gave a wedding banquet.

IMO reading it the way you do is bound to make you feel absolved from the severity of this scripture, and it's true meaning. This is a very dangerous ground IMO to say certain scriptures apply only to a certain group pf people. God has repeatedly stated that there is to be ONE law for all.

It is important to keep things in context as the following verses verify that this speaks of a believer:

Heb 10:29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?


Shalom,
Tanja

Diggindeeper
Jan 15th 2008, 04:40 AM
Tanja, one sentence in your post above reminded me of something. I think this is very relevant to this thread. You said, "Rather i believe this speaks of a believer who doesn't show him/herself worthy of the blood of Christ which He shed for the remission of sins in His mercy and love for man."

I used to kind of "look over" or skim across the words remission of sins.

But after knowing several people who have battled cancer, and seen it go into REMISSION, well...we all rejoice with those people because their cancer is in REMISSION. In other words, it is as though they never had a cancer cell in their body. Its the same as GONE!

But, it sometimes seems that those cancer cells have a mind of their own, and don't like to be "out of sight" and want to continue to destroy healthy cells. Many of us have seen the cancer "return", and return in a flurry of deadly activation.

I see many whose remission of sins is that same way! The sins do come back, just like the cancer cells, and set about to destroy us and destroy us before we ever get another chance to repent!

Jesusinmyheart
Jan 15th 2008, 06:55 AM
OK Digging,

So what are you really trying to say here and get at? You left off talking about sin returning before we get another chance to repent of it, how do you tie that in with Yeshua's blood being shed for the remission of our sins ? ;)

Shalom,
Tanja

Diggindeeper
Jan 15th 2008, 07:16 AM
Exactly! There's no other way our sins can go into remission. Is there, Tanja? That is the ONLY way!

But, those sins are in remission, and like cancer...can return with a vengance! But if we abide in Him, as branches of the vine, then the sin stays in remission. But, if we don't remain, abiding, in Him....

Nothing deep and theological here...just a note on my thoughts about remission. Very important words, I say--remission of sins. Doesn't mean done away with forever and ever. Does mean the dirtied slate has been wiped clean, like new. (Lord help me to allow my sins to stay in remission!)

"Rather i believe this speaks of a believer who doesn't show him/herself worthy of the blood of Christ which He shed for the remission of sins in His mercy and love for man."

Buck shot
Jan 15th 2008, 03:49 PM
So are people who are unsuccessful in defeating addictions lost?

There can't be a saved addict?:confused

I believe there can be.

I believe the heart that says "I've said the prayer and I have this addiction that I can't help so I'm gonna go with it"--might be a lost heart.

But the heart that says "I've said the prayer and I have this addiction that I can't help but I'm never going to quit fighting and I trust the Lord Jesus to deliver me and forgive me"--might not be a lost heart.

Regardless of whether either one has achieved victory over the flesh.

Is that a false teaching?

I believe that just because you "put off the old man" it don't make it easy to not still want to walk in the same shoes. What I mean is that Christ purges us of our sins (I believe past, present, and FUTURE sins), it does not say He takes away the sin nature. Just as babies have to be taught why something is wrong to not do it so we as babes in Christ must grow spiritually to understand what habits we need to get rid of. We all know that it is wrong to lie but who can honestly say they have defeated that one? If you think you have remember that your thoughts count as actions if you are a spiritually mature christian.

Is it a false teaching? I don't think so. As we grow closer to the Lord it gets easier to drop addictions because He changes us from within and we start to hate doing something we know hurts Him. Before you know it it starts to hurt you also. This is how we GROW to be more like Him. Let's just keeping taking one step at a time and remember that we may be on the same path but are not at the same mile markers.

John146
Jan 15th 2008, 03:59 PM
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.


2Th 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Shalom,
Tanja

Okay, now you're saying that "receiving the knowledge of the truth" is the same as loving the truth. Once again, I'm not so sure about that. How can one love the truth and deliberately go on sinning? Does that make sense? Not to me.

Eric

AtHisFeet
Jan 15th 2008, 04:27 PM
Let's just keeping taking one step at a time and remember that we may be on the same path but are not at the same mile markers.

That's a good word, right there.

And an excellent post.

I ask these things because the "Does obedience save?" thread really got my mind going.

Obedience is of utmost important, and no where have I stated otherwise, but I also know there are professing Christians who deal with a lot of issues.

I'm a youth leader and I have a youth that struggles with destructive thoughts and eating disorders, I don't think this young lady is lost simply because she's not walking 100% in the spirit on these issues. Same for other addictions/disorders.

Again, we can't use grace as an excuse to sin, but we can use it stand back up and say "Let's try to get it right one more time".

Thanks for posting!!

JesusLovesYou
Jan 15th 2008, 05:04 PM
Heb. 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto , striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye s, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.





Having said all that, what happens when I fail?
The scriptures teach that you humble yourself before the Lord, and He will lift you up. He is the lifter of our heads. As His child, believers are loved by Father God. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. When the Father looks at His children, He sees we have been made righteous through His son. It's because of His son (who we put our trust in for salvation) that His wrath has turned from us. We are no longer under His wrath, nor any curse. We are now His child, a dearly loved child! He refers to us as His sons and daughters. There's a relationship there that cannot be broken.

The scriptures teach that our God disciplines the ones He loves.

While grace is taken advantage of, it does not run out. God will let you know when you are not walking right before Him through conviction by the Holy Spirit, and our response is to confess it, and walk in the way that pleases Him.


In short, is my sin more powerful than Jesus' sacrifice?
No.


Can my sin 'undo' what Christ did for me on the cross?Absolutely not.


Or does my sin continually put me in a state of 'now I'm saved, now I'm not. Now I am again, now I'm not again.'No way.

Grace, grace, God's grace. Grace that will pardon and cleanse within!