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Atrandomdutch
Jan 16th 2008, 10:05 AM
I come from a pentacostal background, and I just have a question. The Holy Spirit obviously dwells in a believer. However, when speaking of the manifestation of the Spirit, people talk about 'the anointing' 'God's presence' and the like.

There has been a period in my life where I got involved in magick. I found that there are numerous parellels between magick and pentacostle christianity. On of which is the presence of God thing. There are many presences in this world. Not just one. I have experience numerous different entities in different CHRISTIAN churches. The question to me is then which presence the Spirit of God is, and which voice out of the meriad of voices that emminate from these presences is the Spirit of God. This leads to a lot of confusion, naturally. Then again, this way of finding God (which is like magick in terms of 'methods' (bad name for it, sorry), but with a christian layer, and hugely prevalent in pentacostle/charistmatic circles) might be faulty.

My question then is, what is biblicaly true regarding the way God manifests to/in a believer?

RogerW
Jan 16th 2008, 11:43 AM
I come from a pentacostal background, and I just have a question. The Holy Spirit obviously dwells in a believer. However, when speaking of the manifestation of the Spirit, people talk about 'the anointing' 'God's presence' and the like.

There has been a period in my life where I got involved in magick. I found that there are numerous parellels between magick and pentacostle christianity. On of which is the presence of God thing. There are many presences in this world. Not just one. I have experience numerous different entities in different CHRISTIAN churches. The question to me is then which presence the Spirit of God is, and which voice out of the meriad of voices that emminate from these presences is the Spirit of God. This leads to a lot of confusion, naturally. Then again, this way of finding God (which is like magick in terms of 'methods' (bad name for it, sorry), but with a christian layer, and hugely prevalent in pentacostle/charistmatic circles) might be faulty.

My question then is, what is biblicaly true regarding the way God manifests to/in a believer?

Through His written Word! The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God in applying what the Word teaches to the hearts of all who receive faith to believe.

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 16th 2008, 11:51 AM
"My sheep recognize my voice" Jesus says in John 10. The same goes for us today: if we are His sheep, we will recognize His voice. If we know Him, we will know and recognize His voice. I would point to the Word of God as one avenue to develop that "knowing" of God, but also spending time in prayer and even just living your daily life with Him. The Word of God remains our measuring rod, of course.

Atrandomdutch
Jan 16th 2008, 11:52 AM
Through His written Word! The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God in applying what the Word teaches to the hearts of all who receive faith to believe.

My question is more on how to discern the Holy Spirit's voice. Even when God speaks through the bible, there are still a myriad of interpretations that are possible. The revelation of the Spirit is still needed. That is what I means. Sorry if that was unclear.

Atrandomdutch
Jan 16th 2008, 11:55 AM
"My sheep recognize my voice" Jesus says in John 10. The same goes for us today: if we are His sheep, we will recognize His voice. If we know Him, we will know and recognize His voice. I would point to God as one avenue to develop that "knowing" of God, but also spending time in prayer and even just living your daily life with Him.

How will his voice manifest? Must I expect some presence, or something else? If I should expect some presence to come with the voice of God, or should i just expect it too feel different, or not feel at all? As viewed from scripture, of course.

watchinginawe
Jan 16th 2008, 12:12 PM
There are plenty of verses that can be looked at. What about this from John?

I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Paul also talks of edification to believers, whether manifestations are edifying to only one or more than one believer at a time.

I'm out of time here but wanted to throw that on the stack.

God Bless!

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 16th 2008, 12:15 PM
How will his voice manifest? Must I expect some presence, or something else? If I should expect some presence to come with the voice of God, or should i just expect it too feel different, or not feel at all? As viewed from scripture, of course.
I don't see the Bible speaking much about feeling, though I do not doubt that experiences such as Isaiah has as described in Isaiah 6 were accompanied by fear and awe for God. When I read 2 Corinthians 3, for instance, I simply see Paul saying that when a person turns to Christ, the veil [that covers the listeners when the Law is read] is taken away. And then verse 18 goes on to say that we are transformed from glory to glory as we gaze into the face of God. What does gazing into God's face mean?

Again I come back to John 10. If you're His sheep, you will know His voice. The Bible is more about knowing than feeling, and that knowing being something of the heart rather than something of the mind. Feeling happens and is important, but I would venture to say that "feeling" the presence of God in the sense of emotional feeling is not the right word.

How about this: 2 Corinthians 3 says that when we turn to Christ, the veil is taken away. In other words, our spiritual eyes are opened when we turn to Christ. Our spiritual senses are made aware of the kingdom of God. I know this is vague and probably not what you're looking for, but I think it does describe what the Bible says on the subject.

Long story short: if a person knows God, he or she will recognize His Presence - will discern it spiritually.

testify2U
Jan 16th 2008, 12:20 PM
Acts 5:32 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=5&verse=32&version=31&context=verse)
We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

I'll echo what Pilgrim said. We must be His sheep to know His voice. And God will give to us the spiritual ears to hear and spiritual eyes to see.

If we are not his servants, then our hearts, eyes, and ears are not ready to discern.

Acts 7:51 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=7&verse=51&version=31&context=verse)
"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

godsgirl
Jan 16th 2008, 02:41 PM
First of all, I'm Pentecostal through and through. So-let me just say this-you can know God's voice when you get to know Him. Also, if God is truely speaking to you-you will hear it more than once-at least I do. For example, God will bring something in His Word to my mind and show me how it applies to my life, and then I will hear it on the radio, or at church, or through a Godly friend. If you have been involved in the occult then you need to repent of that-and fill yourself up with God so that there is no room for the false.

Atrandomdutch
Jan 17th 2008, 09:22 AM
No, I do not have a psychological disorder, I did not mean my physical senses, I meant my spiritual one's. I do not hear litteral voices, but voices in the spirit. I do not hear them all at once, and I often go through periods where I do not hear or talk to any at all. I prefer to have contact with God alone, and with those he sends to me, others I sent away by the blood of Jesus. It has absolutely nothing to do with psychology, is has to do with spirituality, not psychology.

With God's manifestation I meant how God reveals His Will and His Truth to us. Of course you could say "the bible", but then, How does God make clear which of the myriad of interpretations.

I agree with Watchinginawe and Pilgrim. The spirit's that are of God, will acknowledge that Christ has come in the Flesh and is the Son of God. Furthermore, if we are his sheep, we will recognise his voice.

The spirit-realm is not neutral, if we enter it without God's permission, we are practicing witchcraft/magic/idolitry. Therefor, the way God speaks to us and how we act in/contribute to that cannot be neutral. The spiritual realm does not do culture.

obeytheword
Jan 17th 2008, 11:24 AM
No, I do not have a psychological disorder, I did not mean my physical senses, I meant my spiritual one's. I do not hear litteral voices, but voices in the spirit. I do not hear them all at once, and I often go through periods where I do not hear or talk to any at all. I prefer to have contact with God alone, and with those he sends to me, others I sent away by the blood of Jesus. It has absolutely nothing to do with psychology, is has to do with spirituality, not psychology.

With God's manifestation I meant how God reveals His Will and His Truth to us. Of course you could say "the bible", but then, How does God make clear which of the myriad of interpretations.

I agree with Watchinginawe and Pilgrim. The spirit's that are of God, will acknowledge that Christ has come in the Flesh and is the Son of God. Furthermore, if we are his sheep, we will recognise his voice.

The spirit-realm is not neutral, if we enter it without God's permission, we are practicing witchcraft/magic/idolitry. Therefor, the way God speaks to us and how we act in/contribute to that cannot be neutral. The spiritual realm does not do culture.

If you have in the past had any occult involvement (which it appears you have from your post above) then you are likely to have a very heightened sense of spiritual discernment. Certainly much higher than the average Christian who does not have a good measure of that particular gift.

The Holy Spirit IS one spirit, but it does not always manifest in exactly the same way to all believers. I believe the reason for this is actually pretty simple when we actually think of it. Churches are all at different levels spiritually in the knowledge (heart level AND mind level) of God. Some churches are working mostly on outreach, where many unbelievers are present, some are all about full discipleship, some are just about "the experience", etc. The Holy Spirit will manifest to each of these congregations at the level they or in the way they need it to. Then from there, it will try to bring them in the direction the Father wants them to go.

That is my take on it anyway from being at a few different churches that had a very different spiritual feel

Be Blessed!!

Firstfruits
Jan 17th 2008, 03:51 PM
King James Version 1 Corinthians 12

1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

According to his will, note we do not all given the same gifts.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way

Mograce2U
Jan 17th 2008, 04:23 PM
I come from a pentacostal background, and I just have a question. The Holy Spirit obviously dwells in a believer. However, when speaking of the manifestation of the Spirit, people talk about 'the anointing' 'God's presence' and the like.

There has been a period in my life where I got involved in magick. I found that there are numerous parellels between magick and pentacostle christianity. On of which is the presence of God thing. There are many presences in this world. Not just one. I have experience numerous different entities in different CHRISTIAN churches. The question to me is then which presence the Spirit of God is, and which voice out of the meriad of voices that emminate from these presences is the Spirit of God. This leads to a lot of confusion, naturally. Then again, this way of finding God (which is like magick in terms of 'methods' (bad name for it, sorry), but with a christian layer, and hugely prevalent in pentacostle/charistmatic circles) might be faulty.

My question then is, what is biblicaly true regarding the way God manifests to/in a believer?I had a few experiences when I was a new believer and had not yet read my bible. One concerned a vision and a heard a voice in my mind that said "Do not be afraid". That was the only noteworthy "audible" time I "heard" a voice. Several other times after that, when in prayer, several passages were given to me, which when I looked them up were the answer to what I was praying about. Also the confirmation from other people seems like more than coincidence when it occurs from out of the blue. But mostly now that I read my bible regularly, I find that God opens my understanding to the scripture which sometimes is accompanied by a feeling that is noticeable. Other times in the midst of a situation, "wisdom" is given to me about what to do or say or what to pray. And I always check such things with scripture if the scripture passage is not obvious to me. From what I have heard from others this is pretty much "normal" Christian experience which can be tested by the word of God.