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Warrior4God
Jan 22nd 2008, 02:42 AM
I know this is going to irritate a lot of people, mostly people of African American heritage, but I don't really care. We are mostly adults here and if this can't be discussed with adult intelligence and maturity then I guess some people have serious problems. Not that it really makes any difference, but I am white. I have nothing to hide nor be ashamed of about that. Is it just me or are there a lot of black individuals that are a bit on the paranoid side and blame all, or at least most of, their problems on being black? For instance, some black folks think that when they apply for a job that they don't end up getting it's gotta be because they are black. It can't be because they aren't qualified, or lack enough experience, or because they just have a personality that rubbed the interviewer the wrong way. It's because they have too much dark pigment in their skin, I guess. :rolleyes: Or when a young black guy gets shot or tased by the police it's because all cops hate blacks and all cops think all young black men are thugs. I mean, it can't be because the guy attacked a cop or shot at him, right? :rolleyes: Or like the Jena 6 deal that went down where white kids placed nooses in trees (admittedly sick and wrong but apparently not illegal in Jena) to intimidate black kids and no charges were brought against the white kids. Some black people apparently think the white kids didn't go to jail because the court system doesn't like blacks even though it was announced the prosecutors didn't charge the white kids because they couldn't find any laws that were actually broken. Sorry folks, but just being a jerk isn't enough to land you in jail. :rolleyes: Just to clarify, I don't believe all African Americans feel as how I described. I also am not ignorant enough to believe there is no such thing as real and blatant racism against many blacks in this world. But, come on! Every bad or negative thing (or what some blacks perceive to be a bad or negative thing) that happens is due to being black? Please. :rolleyes: Isn't that a victim mentality that many blacks have fought so hard to overcome? Before being blasted as a racist or bigot, be forewarned that I don't think I am better than somebody who is black. One of my good friends who is on our church worship team with me is black. Black individuals have, for decades, fought for various rights to be treated equally. Well, I think one of those rights is the right to be fairly criticized when it's called for. I am so not about political correctness. I AM about telling the truth, even when it's not pleasant or popular. :hmm:

Nihil Obstat
Jan 22nd 2008, 04:32 AM
You do know that it's Martin Luther King Day, right...?

Matthew
Jan 22nd 2008, 04:49 AM
Wow. This could get spicy.

First, I think it's impossible and misguided to say that blacks, or any other group for that matter, complain too much etc. It's just way too broad of a generalization to make without some kind of data. I know it's not your intent to say all blacks act one way or another, but unless you name specific people and specific actions then you're headed down the wrong road.

Second, I think we need to keep in mind the things that blacks have been subjected to. Blacks have been terribly mistreated as a group for most of this nation's history. I think America has made a tremendous amount of progress in the last 50 or so years, but we can't expect blacks to completely forget the past. It takes time for those wounds to heal.

I just recently began a thread of Al Sharpton and his latest antics. I have no problem with calling a specific person out for a specific action. We can't make progress calling out an entire group of people though. That's not fair.

Ayala
Jan 22nd 2008, 05:01 AM
Black, white, brown, yellow, purple...Ignorance is among every race and color.

Matthew
Jan 22nd 2008, 05:09 AM
Black, white, brown, yellow, purple...Ignorance is among every race and color.

Especially purple people. I can't stand them. :D

Athanasius
Jan 22nd 2008, 05:48 AM
Especially purple people. I can't stand them. :D

Hey man, yellow, black, white--fine.
But purple?! We gotta draw the line some where.

I definitely wouldn't have said what Aaron said, exactly as he said it. The problem I do have with certain 'minorities' is the sort of double standard going on, especially concerning 'racial' remarks.

Warrior4God
Jan 22nd 2008, 02:09 PM
Like I said, I don't think all blacks feel and act as how I described. I'm just irritated at the ones who play the race card in just about all aspects of their lives. I have seen various examples of black individuals not getting a job and complaining that it had to be because the employer is racist. They were not open to the possibility that it was because they were in some way not qualified for the job or they didn't come across as professional or pleasant enough. It was because they are black. Are there racist employers out there? Absolutely there are! But, every single one? Methinks not. I have seen examples of young black men being shot and killed by the police. The surviving family goes on tv crying that their precious and loving child is dead because he had the misfortune of being black. The family, however, forgets to mention that their "precious and loving child" had just taken several shots at the cops with a gun when they tried to arrest him for a robbery, or some other crime, before being taken out with lethal force. Are there cops out there that are racist and guilty of police brutality? I am sure there are. All or most of them? Again, no. Does anybody notice the fact that when anybody white calls a black person the dreaded "n word" they are a racist, however, they can call each other that name constantly and it's all good? I tell you what, if I was black and another black person called me that name I would punch their lights out and tell them how stupid and ignorant they are for using that word. Also, notice how it's ok to call white folks "honky," "cracker," "whitey," "the man," etc.? I just think people need to judge each other by character and not skin color. That goes for whites AND blacks. I also think people need to accept that negative things happen and it's not always because of the color of their skin. Life is often more complicated than that.

Fenris
Jan 22nd 2008, 02:16 PM
Now if only this problem could be blamed on the Jews, we'd have all our bases covered...:hmm:





:lol:

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 02:32 PM
Now if only this problem could be blamed on the Jews, we'd have all our bases covered...:hmm:





:lol:

All in favor raise your right hand and say, "I"! ;)

daughter
Jan 22nd 2008, 02:35 PM
Now if only this problem could be blamed on the Jews, we'd have all our bases covered...:hmm:





:lol::rofl:
Can I just ask though... why are you picking up on black people with a persecution complex? What about white people who behave in similar ways? And let's face it, the police ARE often corrupt and racist, interviewers do sometimes have prejudices against black folks. So, what is it about black people complaining in particular that rubs you up worse than white people? I mean, we whinge too, and often with less excuse.

KATA_LOUKAN
Jan 22nd 2008, 02:50 PM
Is it just me or are there a lot of black individuals that are a bit on the paranoid side and blame all, or at least most of, their problems on being black? For instance, some black folks think that when they apply for a job that they don't end up getting it's gotta be because they are black. It can't be because they aren't qualified, or lack enough experience, or because they just have a personality that rubbed the interviewer the wrong way. It's because they have too much dark pigment in their skin, I guess. :rolleyes: Or when a young black guy gets shot or tased by the police it's because all cops hate blacks and all cops think all young black men are thugs. I mean, it can't be because the guy attacked a cop or shot at him, right?

Yes, some black people can feel that they are being discriminated against when they are not.


Or like the Jena 6 deal that went down where white kids placed nooses in trees (admittedly sick and wrong but apparently not illegal in Jena) to intimidate black kids and no charges were brought against the white kids. Some black people apparently think the white kids didn't go to jail because the court system doesn't like blacks even though it was announced the prosecutors didn't charge the white kids because they couldn't find any laws that were actually broken.

This was horrible. You think this is merely "being a jerk"? If somebody threatened death to Christians at a Southern school, those involved would be SEVERELY punnished, if not murdered by wackos.


Isn't that a victim mentality that many blacks have fought so hard to overcome? Before being blasted as a racist or bigot, be forewarned that I don't think I am better than somebody who is black.

You cant imagine how many rich white kids ive met who think that they were denied admission to an ivy league school because they were not black. While there have been instances of terrible racism on both sides, it would be foolish to say that white people are exempt from this.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 03:15 PM
I've lived almost all of the last 20 years in 2 very racially diverse communities. I was in a smaller community that is about 40% Hispanic, and now live in a metro area that is about 60% black. My neighborhood is about 75-80% black. I love it, and feel perfectly safe there. The 2400-student high school my daughter attends is the "blackest" school in our city, but also one of the safest and highest academic schools here.

I don't really know what to make of all this racial garbage...

What I do know is that I've known a lot of absolutely wonderful Hispanics over the years. Extremely hard working, family oriented, faith-filled friendly people who wouldn't hesitate to give you the shirt of their backs. But then there are a few bad apples.

The majority of the people who work in the Development Department Office where my wife works are black. They're wonderful - and I love it when the women pop into their "black mama" mode, and start in with their lingo. It's hilarious! There are extremely successful blacks all over this city. But there are, of course, those blacks who complain about how "da man is alwayz keepin' me down!"


I don't know what all the answers are, but one thing I'm darned-well convinced of - and that is that Al Sharpton & his ilk do NOT have the answers, and are actually doing more racial damage than good! The key to success for ANY of us, regardless of race, is to quit making excuses and get out there, make good decisions & work hard!

diffangle
Jan 22nd 2008, 03:26 PM
Now if only this problem could be blamed on the Jews, we'd have all our bases covered...:hmm:

:lol:
What... you mean it's not their fault??? Don't the Jews control the world? :lol: :rolleyes:


You cant imagine how many rich white kids ive met who think that they were denied admission to an ivy league school because they were not black. While there have been instances of terrible racism on both sides, it would be foolish to say that white people are exempt from this.
Yeah a friend of mine worked at a company where she had to do the hiring and firing, she(a minority herself, hispanic female) got sued by a former employee for suppossed discrimination b/c the man was black. My friend had a very long relationship with a black man so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that she probably wasn't racist. Another time she had to "choose"(I use that word loosely) between firing a white guy who was an exceptional employee and firing a black man who was a horrible employee, due to policy... guess who got fired. :hmm:

daughter
Jan 22nd 2008, 04:23 PM
You cant imagine how many rich white kids ive met who think that they were denied admission to an ivy league school because they were not black. While there have been instances of terrible racism on both sides, it would be foolish to say that white people are exempt from this.

Hey Kata, that goes for the UK too. I went to Oxford, and the year I started my degree only four Afro Caribbeans joined, out of I think an intake of twelve hundred. And STILL I know highly priveleged white public school boys who think they didn't get in because of "inverse" prejudice. Ridiculous...

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 05:50 PM
I know this is going to irritate a lot of people, mostly people of African American heritage, but I don't really care. We are mostly adults here and if this can't be discussed with adult intelligence and maturity then I guess some people have serious problems.


I agree Aaron, we should discuss it, because we have a generation in America that does not have a clue.

I for instance was always told that you must performed doubly good, to recieve a fair chance at anything a white individual competing with you for.

This was taught to me by my mother! who lived through a time when this was 100% true! I got my first job, a production job in our town, when I told her I worked at this particular industry, she reminded me that when she had applied at this place when she was young, that she was told they could not hire her because there was no bathroom for her to use.

So what does that have to do with today? for I know there are some that will say that was 30 yrs ago, but it is not, we (minorities) still deal with this mentality, (it's just been cleaned up).

The KKK memberships are rising, they are online spreading their propaganda. But they are not the ones to be concern with, it's those that have enough diplomacy to hide their true feeling, young corporate Americans. That are paranoid and feel like they are being beaten out of something if they see a black employee, or the advancement of one.

MLK had a dream, and we are his reality of that dream, but the nightmare has to still be dealt with. I wasn't brought up segregated from certain individuals, even with mom's constant reminders, she said take individuals one at a time.

My question is why are some whites paranoid? what do you think you are losing?

The comments have been stated even here, why can't we have a white history day? Because you know your heritages, and you celebrate them. Blacks were stolen theirs, that is why their is a black history day, our history is being written for us by us, since slavery.

The quota system was fought vigourously by those threaten for whatever reason by it, but the truth was just because it got a minority a job, it would not keep it for them, they would have to perform their job in excellent manner to keep it, like Clarence Thomas did:rolleyes:.

If a corporation had equal hiring practices to begin with, it would not have been an issue for them

I am a proud Black woman, I'm not an African American, African Americans are people from Africa that have an American citizenship.

This is my country! I could care less about criticism from any culture including my own, and when I sense prejudice, I speak out on it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if I'm not? please don't get upset.

For as Dr. King stated "Unjustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere

Seeker of truth
Jan 22nd 2008, 06:10 PM
I agree Aaron, we should discuss it, because we have a generation in America that does not have a clue.

I for instance was always told that you must performed doubly good, to recieve a fair chance at anything a white individual competing with you for.

This was taught to me by my mother! who lived through a time when this was 100% true! I got my first job, a production job in our town, when I told her I worked at this particular industry, she reminded me that when she had applied at this place when she was young, that she was told they could not hire her because there was no bathroom for her to use.

So what does that have to do with today? for I know there are some that will say that was 30 yrs ago, but it is not, we (minorities) still deal with this mentality, (it's just been cleaned up).

The KKK memberships are rising, they are online spreading their propaganda. But they are not the ones to be concern with, it's those that have enough diplomacy to hide their true feeling, young corporate Americans. That are paranoid and feel like they are being beaten out of something if they see a black employee, or the advancement of one.

MLK had a dream, and we are his reality of that dream, but the nightmare has to still be dealt with. I wasn't brought up segregated from certain individuals, even with mom's constant reminders, she said take individuals one at a time.

My question is why are some whites paranoid? what do you think you are losing?

The comments have been stated even here, why can't we have a white history day? Because you know your heritages, and you celebrate them. Blacks were stolen theirs, that is why their is a black history day, our history is being written for us by us, since slavery.

The quota system was fought vigourously by those threaten for whatever reason by it, but the truth was just because it got a minority a job, it would not keep it for them, they would have to perform their job in excellent manner to keep it, like Clarence Thomas did:rolleyes:.

If a corporation had equal hiring practices to begin with, it would not have been an issue for them

I am a proud Black woman, I'm not an African American, African Americans are people from Africa that have an American citizenship.

This is my country! I could care less about criticism from any culture including my own, and when I sense prejudice, I speak out on it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if I'm not? please don't get upset.

For as Dr. King stated "Unjustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere

This deserves repeating!

diffangle
Jan 22nd 2008, 07:30 PM
I for instance was always told that you must performed doubly good, to recieve a fair chance at anything a white individual competing with you for.

This was taught to me by my mother! who lived through a time when this was 100% true! I got my first job, a production job in our town, when I told her I worked at this particular industry, she reminded me that when she had applied at this place when she was young, that she was told they could not hire her because there was no bathroom for her to use.

So what does that have to do with today? for I know there are some that will say that was 30 yrs ago, but it is not, we (minorities) still deal with this mentality, (it's just been cleaned up).

This could all be applied to women too. While minorities(be it blacks, women, etc.) still have to deal with that mentality in certain places, thankfully we are given opportunities that our ancestors were not, and while it's not perfect, imo it's important to focus some on the positive instead of constant focusing only on the negative... it helps to move forward instead of staying stuck in the past. :dunno:We definately live in a fallen world.:(

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 07:46 PM
I agree Aaron, we should discuss it, because we have a generation in America that does not have a clue.

I for instance was always told that you must performed doubly good, to recieve a fair chance at anything a white individual competing with you for.

This was taught to me by my mother! who lived through a time when this was 100% true! I got my first job, a production job in our town, when I told her I worked at this particular industry, she reminded me that when she had applied at this place when she was young, that she was told they could not hire her because there was no bathroom for her to use.

So what does that have to do with today? for I know there are some that will say that was 30 yrs ago, but it is not, we (minorities) still deal with this mentality, (it's just been cleaned up).

The KKK memberships are rising, they are online spreading their propaganda. But they are not the ones to be concern with, it's those that have enough diplomacy to hide their true feeling, young corporate Americans. That are paranoid and feel like they are being beaten out of something if they see a black employee, or the advancement of one.

MLK had a dream, and we are his reality of that dream, but the nightmare has to still be dealt with. I wasn't brought up segregated from certain individuals, even with mom's constant reminders, she said take individuals one at a time.

My question is why are some whites paranoid? what do you think you are losing?

The comments have been stated even here, why can't we have a white history day? Because you know your heritages, and you celebrate them. Blacks were stolen theirs, that is why their is a black history day, our history is being written for us by us, since slavery.

The quota system was fought vigourously by those threaten for whatever reason by it, but the truth was just because it got a minority a job, it would not keep it for them, they would have to perform their job in excellent manner to keep it, like Clarence Thomas did:rolleyes:.

If a corporation had equal hiring practices to begin with, it would not have been an issue for them

I am a proud Black woman, I'm not an African American, African Americans are people from Africa that have an American citizenship.

This is my country! I could care less about criticism from any culture including my own, and when I sense prejudice, I speak out on it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if I'm not? please don't get upset.

For as Dr. King stated "Unjustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere

Always...

Why is it okay for black-owned companies to openly hire only black employees?

And why is it okay for Grambling State University to hire only black professors and admit only black students? Check out the Grambling photo page... Where are the white folk? http://www.gram.edu/administration/President/photo1.asp

Or how about Alcorn State University? Where are the white kids? Where are the white faculty? http://www.alcorn.edu/about/glance.htm

In fact, here's a website dedicated specifically to black colleges. http://www.blackcollegesearch.com/


Now... I'm going to tell you up front that I'm really not particularly bothered by the presence of - or overwhelming racial prejudice of - these "black colleges". In fact, I'm all for providing whatever opportunities available for black Americans to better themselves.

But you and I both know that you would be front & center, yelling & hollering about it, if there were a whole plethora of "whites only" colleges across America.

Is this not bias? Is this not flagrant discrimination?



I think we ALL need to spend some serious time gazing into the mirror. ;)

markedward
Jan 22nd 2008, 08:11 PM
Why is it okay for black-owned companies to openly hire only black employees?Do you have any examples? Can you find enough examples to support this claim, that all black-owned companies only hire black employees? Or are you making an argument based upon only a few specific cases, yet you're blanketing the argument against all "black-owned companies?"


And why is it okay for Grambling State University to hire only black professors and admit only black students? Check out the Grambling photo page... Where are the white folk? http://www.gram.edu/administration/President/photo1.asp Take into account that the school is in Louisiana, which has a large black population compared to many states in the US. Oh, and I counted three "white folk" on just that one page you linked to. That's a number consistent with it being, again, a large black population for the region.


Or how about Alcorn State University? Where are the white kids? Where are the white faculty? http://www.alcorn.edu/about/glance.htm There's hardly even any pictures on the website, but again, take into account that region; Mississippi which, again, has a larger black population compared to most states in the US.


In fact, here's a website dedicated specifically to black colleges. http://www.blackcollegesearch.com/ Did you know that many colleges, especially ones with very old fraternities and sororities, will outright deny black students a place in their school simply because those schools have historically been all white schools? I'm not lying. Yes that can be seen as discrimination on the part of race, but once the student-applicant knows they aren't welcome there, why would the bother continuing to try to get in? Most of the schools listed on this website are, again, in the South, where the black population is higher than most of the US, but so are racist tendencies within the white population.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 08:24 PM
Do you have any examples? Can you find enough examples to support this claim, that all black-owned companies only hire black employees? Or are you making an argument based upon only a few specific cases, yet you're blanketing the argument against all "black-owned companies?"

Take into account that the school is in Louisiana, which has a large black population compared to many states in the US. Oh, and I counted three "white folk" on just that one page you linked to. That's a number consistent with it being, again, a large black population for the region.

There's hardly even any pictures on the website, but again, take into account that region; Mississippi which, again, has a larger black population compared to most states in the US.

Did you know that many colleges, especially ones with very old fraternities and sororities, will outright deny black students a place in their school simply because those schools have historically been all white schools? I'm not lying. Yes that can be seen as discrimination on the part of race, but once the student-applicant knows they aren't welcome there, why would the bother continuing to try to get in? Most of the schools listed on this website are, again, in the South, where the black population is higher than most of the US, but so are racist tendencies within the white population.

Mark;

Concerning the black-owned companies... I'm thinking of specific companies, here in Omaha, that were highlighted on TV yesterday, because of MLK's birthday. There were several owners of these companies interviewed - and the focus was on the SUCCESS of blacks in America. And frankly, I really have no problem with that. Good for them! They've worked hard, made good decisions, and succeeded. That's what America is SUPPOSED to be about!

Concerning Grambling, Alcorn, etc... Who cares WHERE they are located? I realize fully the historic significance of their locations, but this is the 21st Century. And would it be acceptable if a school in Utah only allowed whites access, because it's a "white area"?

And yes, I'm fully aware that there are sororities & fraternities that only allow whites to be members, just like there are sororities & fraternities that only allow blacks to be members. And there are those who - though their racism isn't in writing - are openly racist.


What I'm pointing out to Always is this: Why is it okay for black schools to deny admission and/or employment to whites, if it's not okay for white schools to do that to blacks?

It isn't only whites that are flagrant racists.

Matthew
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:18 PM
Mark;

Concerning the black-owned companies... I'm thinking of specific companies, here in Omaha, that were highlighted on TV yesterday, because of MLK's birthday. There were several owners of these companies interviewed - and the focus was on the SUCCESS of blacks in America. And frankly, I really have no problem with that. Good for them! They've worked hard, made good decisions, and succeeded. That's what America is SUPPOSED to be about!

Concerning Grambling, Alcorn, etc... Who cares WHERE they are located? I realize fully the historic significance of their locations, but this is the 21st Century. And would it be acceptable if a school in Utah only allowed whites access, because it's a "white area"?

And yes, I'm fully aware that there are sororities & fraternities that only allow whites to be members, just like there are sororities & fraternities that only allow blacks to be members. And there are those who - though their racism isn't in writing - are openly racist.


What I'm pointing out to Always is this: Why is it okay for black schools to deny admission and/or employment to whites, if it's not okay for white schools to do that to blacks?

It isn't only whites that are flagrant racists.

I don't believe that the black universities are exclusive to blacks. It's important to keep in mind that many (maybe all) exist because of the lack of opportunity available for blacks at other institutions of higher learning throughout America's history.

As for jobs, under federal law employers with 15 or more employees are not allowed to discriminate based on race.

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:28 PM
Mark;

Concerning the black-owned companies... I'm thinking of specific companies, here in Omaha, that were highlighted on TV yesterday, because of MLK's birthday. There were several owners of these companies interviewed - and the focus was on the SUCCESS of blacks in America. And frankly, I really have no problem with that. Good for them! They've worked hard, made good decisions, and succeeded. That's what America is SUPPOSED to be about!

Concerning Grambling, Alcorn, etc... Who cares WHERE they are located? I realize fully the historic significance of their locations, but this is the 21st Century. And would it be acceptable if a school in Utah only allowed whites access, because it's a "white area"?

And yes, I'm fully aware that there are sororities & fraternities that only allow whites to be members, just like there are sororities & fraternities that only allow blacks to be members. And there are those who - though their racism isn't in writing - are openly racist.


What I'm pointing out to Always is this: Why is it okay for black schools to deny admission and/or employment to whites, if it's not okay for white schools to do that to blacks?

It isn't only whites that are flagrant racists.

You are misinform, no! black college, will deny whites, no black business will deny whites employment, that's not even good business sense.

I can't add too much more to what Mark has posted, do you see a line whites WANTING to go to Grambling? Alcorn? and that's fine, it's fine until the schools say they can't because of their cultures.

John Johnson, started Ebony magazine years ago, his daughter Linda Johnson Rice is CEO now, they have a very diverse staff, maybe not a long line of whites wanting to work there but if they do and are qualified they can. The Harlem Bank has a diverse staff, because blacks know that good business is marketing to everyone, not just a certain group.

Now FUBU? http://www.fubu.com/ yes, markets to the minority communities.

Just as Gloria Vanderbilt and her "White Shoulders" cologne, and flat bottomed jeans does to whites and many others, and they do it specifically stating, I don't want blacks using my products

FUBU could care less there are as many white kids wearing their product as minorities.

The very fact that one would find themselve annoyed to me is proof that there are still issues.

As Christians we serve the same God, I'm not concerned about another's blessing, because I have a relationship with the Blessor, if I want a particular thing, my gift will make room for me.

I do believe that yes, welfare, food stamps, housing for minorities, black scholarships and affirmative action, were answers to prayers.

What man would not do from his heart, because it was right, God made a way, do some abuse that blessing, YES! because all are not children of God, but it rains on the unjust as well as just.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:29 PM
I don't believe that the black universities are exclusive to blacks. It's important to keep in mind that many (maybe all) exist because of the lack of opportunity available for blacks at other institutions of higher learning throughout America's history.

As for jobs, under federal law employers with 15 or more employees are not allowed to discriminate based on race.

I agree with both statements.

But we're not living in the 19th or 20th Century anymore. Further, if there were colleges that were as openly white only (even though, technically, a black person might get in) there would be a public uproar like nobody's business - as there should be.

As for Federal EEOC guidelines, you're right. But tens of thousands of companies in America have less than 15 employees - and we both know what that means.


Racism, bigotry, prejudice and discrimination come in ALL colors. :)

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:30 PM
You are misinform, no! black college, will deny whites, no black business will deny whites employment, that's not even good business sense.

So blacks, black colleges, and black business CANNOT be racist, discriminatory and prejudice? That's only done by white people? Gotcha! ;)

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:34 PM
I can't add too much more to what Mark has posted, do you see a line whites WANTING to go to Grambling? Alcorn? and that's fine, it's fine until the schools say they can't because of their cultures.

John Johnson, started Ebony magazine years ago, his daughter Linda Johnson Rice is CEO now, they have a very diverse staff, maybe not a long line of whites wanting to work there but if they do and are qualified they can. The Harlem Bank has a diverse staff, because blacks know that good business is marketing to everyone, not just a certain group.

Now FUBU? http://www.fubu.com/ yes, markets to the minority communities.

Just as Gloria Vanderbilt and her "White Shoulders" cologne, and flat bottomed jeans does to whites and many others, and they do it specifically stating, I don't want blacks using my products

FUBU could care less there are as many white kids wearing their product as minorities.

The very fact that one would find themselves annoyed to me is proof that there are still issues.

As Christians we serve the same God, I'm not concerned about another's blessing, because I have a relationship with the Blessor, if I want a particular thing, my gift will make room for me.

I do believe that yes, welfare, food stamps, housing for minorities, black scholarships and affirmative action, were answers to prayers.

What man would not do from his heart, because it was right, God made a way, do some abuse that blessing, YES! because all are not children of God, but it rains on the unjust as well as just.

As I've said before Always, you know I love and respect you. And I'm saying that as a white guy that chooses to live in an overwhelmingly black community.

But I'll be honest with you. I believe you carry a huge chip on your shoulder about racial issues. I believe you read racism and discrimination into situations where it doesn't exist - or certainly doesn't exist intentionally (case in point, Gloria Vanderbilts, "White Shoulders" comment).

Then you turn around and defend the exact same practices when it's a black proprietor, or black college, that is obviously giving preference to people of their own race. The fact that you absolutely refuse to see and acknowledge the hateful racist bigotry and rhetoric of Al Sharpton - because he is a black man - makes that obvious. If Al Sharpton was white, and saying the things he says, you'd have nothing but the deepest scorn for him!

As one Christian to another, I'd like to encourage you to look deeply into your own heart. I think you'll find that you may be far more racist than most all us boring old white folk on this forum.

Matthew
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:35 PM
My question is why are some whites paranoid? what do you think you are losing?

Same thing that every group gets paranoid about: mistreatment. I think most whites don't want to live in a society where someone gets a leg up on them because of race. I think everyone wants to judged on merit.



The quota system was fought vigourously by those threaten for whatever reason by it, but the truth was just because it got a minority a job, it would not keep it for them, they would have to perform their job in excellent manner to keep it, like Clarence Thomas did:rolleyes:.

You don't think Thomas has done a good job? Not that I'm a huge fan or anything, but I certainly respect his rise to the Supreme Court.


I am a proud Black woman, I'm not an African American, African Americans are people from Africa that have an American citizenship.

This is my country! I could care less about criticism from any culture including my own, and when I sense prejudice, I speak out on it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if I'm not? please don't get upset.

Man I love to read that. That is what America is about.

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:39 PM
So blacks, black colleges, and black business CANNOT be racist, discriminatory and prejudice? That's only done by white people? Gotcha! ;)

I know that you jest, but I have said before, to be a racist one must have the ability to oppress.

All of us possess our prejudices, our father and mother both came from Africa, we are all shades of black:lol: brown, red, yellow and white.

Our prejudices are about culture, not race, we all belong to the human race
That is how we discriminate, by culture

AlainaJ
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:45 PM
So blacks, black colleges, and black business CANNOT be racist, discriminatory and prejudice? That's only done by white people? Gotcha! ;)
I can say from experience all people are racists. Blacks, whites..everyone..but no one wants to admit it. I admite those that at least admit it.

I have worked, my husband works and I know plenty of black owned buisnesses that only have blacks working for them. Why?

But, if a company has all white emplyees, they are called rascist.

I worked in a large organization for a long time...and both blacks and white discriminate

I have seen black bosses keep faulty black employess and white's keep faulty white...the only thing that really bothered me in the 10 years I worked...was affirmitve action and being told may times not to discipline an employee properly becuase they were black. My bosses were scared of the black employees screaming rascism and before I quit one did. The sad thing was this kid never came to work, didn't do anything and then made a big fuss he was fired becuase he was black. I sure I could not have done that or my husband or any white person .

Let's just be honest we all have faults becuase we are human.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:46 PM
I know that you jest, but I have said before, to be a racist one must have the ability to oppress.

I'm sorry, but that is absolutely, 100% wrong.

To be a racist, one must simply dislike or have prejudices against persons of another race.

It does not require ability, nor power. It requires ignorance and/or hatred.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:48 PM
I can say from experience all people are racists. Blacks, whites..everyone..but no one wants to admit it. I admite those that at least admit it.

I have worked, my husband works and I know plenty of black owned buisnesses that only have blacks working for them. Why?

But, if a company has all white emplyees, they are called rascist.

I worked in a large organization for a long time...and both blacks and white discriminate

I have seen black bosses keep faulty black employess and white's keep faulty white...the only thing that really bothered me in the 10 years I worked...was affirmitve action and being told may times not to discipline an employee properly becuase they were black. My bosses were scared of the black employees screaming rascism and before I quit one did. The sad thing was this kid never came to work, didn't do anything and then made a big fuss he was fired becuase he was black. I sure I could not have done that or my husband or any white person .

Let's just be honest we all have faults becuase we are human.

My point exactly. Thank you! :)

Matthew
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:49 PM
I agree with both statements.

But we're not living in the 19th or 20th Century anymore. Further, if there were colleges that were as openly white only (even though, technically, a black person might get in) there would be a public uproar like nobody's business - as there should be.

As for Federal EEOC guidelines, you're right. But tens of thousands of companies in America have less than 15 employees - and we both know what that means.


Racism, bigotry, prejudice and discrimination come in ALL colors. :)

Maybe there would be an uproar, and maybe not. I can't say. Whites have never had the need to build universities because of discrimination.

I won't say there aren't instances of double standards. As a white person I see myself as having very little to complain about on issues of race though. If the worst I have to put up with is Al Sharpton then I'll take it.

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:49 PM
You don't think Thomas has done a good job? Not that I'm a huge fan or anything, but I certainly respect his rise to the Supreme Court.




No he's done a good job, but the son of gun was against affirmative action, the very vehicle that got him where he's at.



As one Christian to another, I'd like to encourage you to look deeply into your own heart. I think you'll find that you may be far more racist than most all us boring old white folk on this forum.

jeffrey, I know you mean well, look at my photo.

I want you to know that it represents black, white and native american blood. I have uncles and aunts that ones can not tell wether they were black or white.

That is why it irks me so much this race thing, because I look in the mirror and see us all

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:53 PM
jeffrey, I know you mean well, look at my photo.

I want you to know that it represents black, white and native american blood. I have uncles and aunts that ones can not tell wether they were black or white.

That is why it irks me so much this race thing, because I look in the mirror and see us all
When I see you condemn Al Sharpton with the same fervor you'd condemn David Duke, we'll have something. They're both just racist snakes of different color.

Until then... :hmm:

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 09:55 PM
When I see you condemn Al Sharpton with the same fervor you'd condemn David Duke, we'll have something. They're both just racist snakes of different color.

Until then... :hmm:

I don't agree, Sharpton is not a Duke!

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:03 PM
I don't agree, Sharpton is not a Duke!
I disagree - although not completely.

Sharpton is actually worse than David Duke. You'll see (probably) 99+% of all white Americans saying that David Duke is a racist hater. Unfortunately, you'll see a vast majority of black Americans (including yourself) blindly accepting, believing and promoting what Al Sharpton says.

They're both racists snakes. The only difference in the color of their skin.

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:05 PM
I disagree - although not completely.

Sharpton is actually worse than David Duke. You'll see (probably) 99+% of all white Americans saying that David Duke is a racist hater. Unfortunately, you'll see a vast majority of black Americans (including yourself) blindly accepting, believing and promoting what Al Sharpton says.

They're both racists snakes. The only difference in the color of their skin.

Have you ever seen or heard him state that there should be a seperation of the races?

This thread is not about Sharpton, but since you want to go there!

Have you ever heard him say that

th1bill
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:12 PM
.. Always, close your eyes and ignore this old fool for a minute, I'm going to open my mouth when I know I shouldn't.
.. This entire issue is sick! The entire problem arises out of culture. Yes, there are racist whites but they are very, very few. On the other hand, racism is not limited to the whites but the black racist does not have a black version of the KKK and ain't this white boy proud, they would have strung my skinny behind up in the sixties. I grew up in the slums of Houston, Texas and that slum has been built over with office buildings and parking lots. Today, that area would be known as the hood if it still existed.]
.. I was the only white boy in the neighborhood and I never suffered any more fights than any of my friends did. When everyone was called in to eat a sandwich on Saturday, there was exactly one strange looking boy there, me! Their moms never threw me out. My mom never threw them out of our house either.
.. When I decided to be somebody, being white and in Texas, I sang Country Music, it wasn't cool for a white boy to sing the Blues, the music I loved. So every Friday and Saturday night I put on Boots, buckle and hat and went to sing until 2am. Then, dressed in stone Red Neck regalia I drove off to the Blues Clubs on the other side of the tracks to sing until 6 or 7 in the morning for free. I was that stupid white boy dressed like the Lone Ranger and you know what? All the fights I got into were at the Red Neck joints.
.. The moral of this story is, if you want this stupid attitude problem to disappear, take the lead! Walk right up to black folks and introduce yourself. Be honest, tell them you are trying to get to know them and that you seem to have a problem with them and that you want to find out the truth. You will be absolutely amazed! You will also, suddenly be associating with some of the finest men and women the world has to offer.
.. Always, you can open your eyes once more, I'm through. And the rest of you, shush! I live in the woods and they are full of the KKK and the American Neo-Nazis and I do not ant my house burned down. I fear my own people much more than the black man.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:12 PM
Maybe there would be an uproar, and maybe not. I can't say. Whites have never had the need to build universities because of discrimination.

I won't say there aren't instances of double standards. As a white person I see myself as having very little to complain about on issues of race though. If the worst I have to put up with is Al Sharpton then I'll take it.

The answer to discrimination is not more discrimination.

The elementary school that is (literally) right next door to me is openly "Afro-Centric". It's in their charter, and on their website.

When I asked the black ladies my wife works with what that meant, or why that sort of thing would be stated, they either had no idea what is was, or thought it was just stupid.

My youngest child is now in high school, but if our kids were young I'd send them to this school anyway. Would my 3 little "white kids" get discriminated against, and get taunted racially at that school? Almost without question. What would I do about it? I'd tell my kids to deal with it - there are stupid racists everywhere.


On the other hand, if there was a white elementary school in Omaha, Nebraska that was openly "Euro-Centric" - and built their curriculum around that focus - Al Sharpton would be on the next plane to Omaha. There would be a public outcry and uproar.


Is this not an obvious double-standard? Is this not obvious discrimination and favoritism? Shame on the people who think that the answer to discrimination is more discrimination. :B

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:15 PM
.. Always, close your eyes and ignore this old fool for a minute, I'm going to open my mouth when I know I shouldn't.
.. This entire issue is sick! The entire problem arises out of culture. Yes, there are racist whites but they are very, very few. On the other hand, racism is not limited to the whites but the black racist does not have a black version of the KKK and ain't this white boy proud, they would have strung my skinny behind up in the sixties. I grew up in the slums of Houston, Texas and that slum has been built over with office buildings and parking lots. Today, that area would be known as the hood if it still existed.]
.. I was the only white boy in the neighborhood and I never suffered any more fights than any of my friends did. When everyone was called in to eat a sandwich on Saturday, there was exactly one strange looking boy there, me! Their moms never threw me out. My mom never threw them out of our house either.
.. When I decided to be somebody, being white and in Texas, I sang Country Music, it wasn't cool for a white boy to sing the Blues, the music I loved. So every Friday and Saturday night I put on Boots, buckle and hat and went to sing until 2am. Then, dressed in stone Red Neck regalia I drove off to the Blues Clubs on the other side of the tracks to sing until 6 or 7 in the morning for free. I was that stupid white boy dressed like the Lone Ranger and you know what? All the fights I got into were at the Red Neck joints.
.. The moral of this story is, if you want this stupid attitude problem to disappear, take the lead! Walk right up to black folks and introduce yourself. Be honest, tell them you are trying to get to know them and that you seem to have a problem with them and that you want to find out the truth. You will be absolutely amazed! You will also, suddenly be associating with some of the finest men and women the world has to offer.
.. Always, you can open your eyes once more, I'm through. And the rest of you, shush! I live in the woods and they are full of the KKK and the American Neo-Nazis and I do not ant my house burned down. I fear my own people much more than the black man.


Hey Bill - you might want to read post #12. I purposely live in a neighborhood that is (probably) 80-90% black.

Now... as for the black answer to the KKK? It's the NAACP. ;)

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:18 PM
Have you ever seen or heard him state that there should be a seperation of the races?

This thread is not about Sharpton, but since you want to go there!

Have you ever heard him say that

Take it with a grain of salt. But mind you, there are lots of links and lots of documents supporting what is claimed.

Al Sharpton is NOT the savior of the black race. He's one of your biggest embarrassments and problems!

http://www.realchange.org/sharpton.htm

Seeker of truth
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:22 PM
I have tried to avoid this thread which I find to be in terribly bad taste but I feel the need to put my 02. in now.

I have no use for David Duke. I have no use for Al Sharpton. Both IMO are racist. That said racism comes in all colors and should not be tolorated period! As Christians we are commanded to love one another, not gripe about our brothers and sisters and who annoys us. Something about a log in our own eye ya know.

I just figured I'd point that out.

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:28 PM
Take it with a grain of salt. But mind you, there are lots of links and lots of documents supporting what is claimed.

Al Sharpton is NOT the savior of the black race. He's one of your biggest embarrassments and problems!

http://www.realchange.org/sharpton.htm

an associate of Michael Jackson:rofl::rofl::rofl:Oh Lord, what a sin:rofl: No he is not a savior, he has his faults, but he is definitely not a Duke

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:32 PM
an associate of Michael Jackson:rofl::rofl::rofl:Oh Lord, what a sin:rofl: No he is not a savior, he has his faults, but he is definitely not a Duke

Like I already said, take it with a grain of salt.

But honestly, Always, I find your unwavering support of Al Sharpton to be very sad - and extremely telling as to your own blind spots concerning racism.

You're still trying to deny that Al Sharpton is a racist hater, and a huge problem in America's quest to improve race relations. I simply cannot fathom how or why you could believe that.

Sad indeed. :B

always
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:41 PM
Like I already said, take it with a grain of salt.

But honestly, Always, I find your unwavering support of Al Sharpton to be very sad - and extremely telling as to your own blind spots concerning racism.

You're still trying to deny that Al Sharpton is a racist hater, and a huge problem in America's quest to improve race relations. I simply cannot fathom how or why you could believe that.

Sad indeed. :B


The biggest problem America and the World in general has is sin, the bible states that there will be wars, nations against nations, nation is a word that root forms means "ethnicity".

Folks a hard reality, it's not going to change until Jesus comes. When we will be before each other in our spirit bodies we will be the same.

I pray Sharpton and Duke will be there some way some how, nothing is impossible with God:hug:

I can only imagine

KATA_LOUKAN
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:48 PM
an associate of Michael Jackson:rofl::rofl::rofl:Oh Lord, what a sin:rofl: No he is not a savior, he has his faults, but he is definitely not a Duke

I actually laughed when I read this.

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg

Matthew
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:49 PM
The answer to discrimination is not more discrimination.

The elementary school that is (literally) right next door to me is openly "Afro-Centric". It's in their charter, and on their website.

When I asked the black ladies my wife works with what that meant, or why that sort of thing would be stated, they either had no idea what is was, or thought it was just stupid.

My youngest child is now in high school, but if our kids were young I'd send them to this school anyway. Would my 3 little "white kids" get discriminated against, and get taunted racially at that school? Almost without question. What would I do about it? I'd tell my kids to deal with it - there are stupid racists everywhere.


On the other hand, if there was a white elementary school in Omaha, Nebraska that was openly "Euro-Centric" - and built their curriculum around that focus - Al Sharpton would be on the next plane to Omaha. There would be a public outcry and uproar.


Is this not an obvious double-standard? Is this not obvious discrimination and favoritism? Shame on the people who think that the answer to discrimination is more discrimination. :B

I agree that the answer isn't more discrimination. I'd prefer that people get thicker skin rather than becoming even more sensitive to anything the least bit racial.

tigers
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:50 PM
Why is Al Sharptom a racist? Because he stands up for black people? I've never heard him saying he hates white people.

And does anyone stop and wonder why a black business owner may want to hire mostly black employees? Perhaps he has encountered racism in his life and wants to lend a helping hand to others who may be facing the same challenges he has endured.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:54 PM
Why is Al Sharptom a racist? Because he stands up for black people? I've never heard him saying he hates white people.

And does anyone stop and wonder why a black business owner may want to hire mostly black employees? Perhaps he has encountered racism in his life and wants to lend a helping hand to others who may be facing the same challenges he has endured.

You've never encountered anything from Sharpton that smacks of racism? :o

And what you said about black business owners applies perfectly to white business owners. But it's racism when white business owners do it.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:56 PM
I agree that the answer isn't more discrimination. I'd prefer that people get thicker skin rather than becoming even more sensitive to anything the least bit racial.

Yes - and stop looking for "the racist boogeyman" in every shadow and behind every corner. The fact that I'm married to a white woman does not mean I'm a racist that hates black women. ;)

Seeker of truth
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:56 PM
Why is Al Sharptom a racist? Because he stands up for black people? I've never heard him saying he hates white people.

And does anyone stop and wonder why a black business owner may want to hire mostly black employees? Perhaps he has encountered racism in his life and wants to lend a helping hand to others who may be facing the same challenges he has endured.

Al Sharpton is a racist as he adds too racial tension instead of trying to defuse it.

I have no issue with black business owners hireing black employees. A business owner is free to hire whomever they choose. It's not like there are not pleanty of white business owners who refuse to hire any other race but their own. I don't see too many people complaining about that issue.

Seeker of truth
Jan 22nd 2008, 10:58 PM
You've never encountered anything from Sharpton that smacks of racism? :o

And what you said about black business owners applies perfectly to white business owners. But it's racism when white business owners do it.

Oh come on. White business owners do this all the time. It's racism either way.

tigers
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:01 PM
I don't think Al Sharpton's goal is to oppress white people. He just wants to support black people and fight the racial injustices that they face. What's wrong with that?

Seeker of truth
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:03 PM
I don't think Al Sharpton's goal is to oppress white people. He just wants to support black people and fight the racial injustices that they face. What's wrong with that?

The point is he is a Rev. A man of God. He should do his best to defuse racial tension. As long as racism is tolorated it will never be stopped.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:05 PM
[/b]

Oh come on. White business owners do this all the time. It's racism either way.

Your right. It's racism either way. And both happen. But we never talk about one, and always talk about the other.


Whatever happened to just being able to hire who you want and/or being able to hire the most qualified candidate? :hmm:

Matthew
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:07 PM
I don't think Al Sharpton's goal is to oppress white people. He just wants to support black people and fight the racial injustices that they face. What's wrong with that?

Nothing, if that's all he did. He's some background from wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Sharpton

Seeker of truth
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:09 PM
Your right. It's racism either way. And both happen. But we never talk about one, and always talk about the other.


Whatever happened to just being able to hire who you want and/or being able to hire the most qualified candidate? :hmm:

Though I agree it should be has it ever been that way really? I think in most areas the color of our skin has a lot to do with how we are treated in general.

jeffreys
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:16 PM
[/b]

Though I agree it should be has it ever been that way really? I think in most areas the color of our skin has a lot to do with how we are treated in general.
You're right.

And now we're right back to the same starting point - and that is that people of ALL colors and races can be, and often are, racists.

There are blacks who are racists.
There are Mexicans who are racists.
There are Pakistanis who are racists.
There are whites who are racists.

But when we hear about racism in America, it is almost always geared toward whites being racist toward blacks. We both know that to be all too true.

Warrior4God
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:34 PM
I have tried to avoid this thread which I find to be in terribly bad taste but I feel the need to put my 02. in now.

I have no use for David Duke. I have no use for Al Sharpton. Both IMO are racist. That said racism comes in all colors and should not be tolorated period! As Christians we are commanded to love one another, not gripe about our brothers and sisters and who annoys us. Something about a log in our own eye ya know.

I just figured I'd point that out.

Pretending there are no problems and trying to tiptoe around like everything is rosy doesn't solve problems, either. Just thought I would point that out.

Seeker of truth
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:45 PM
Pretending there are no problems and trying to tiptoe around like everything is rosy doesn't solve problems, either. Just thought I would point that out.

And going all out to make sure they are pointed out does nothing but create more problems. Something Christians should be above.

How do you sppose this thread has made our black brothers and sisters feel? Was any thought given to that?

Warrior4God
Jan 22nd 2008, 11:47 PM
:rofl:
Can I just ask though... why are you picking up on black people with a persecution complex? What about white people who behave in similar ways? And let's face it, the police ARE often corrupt and racist, interviewers do sometimes have prejudices against black folks. So, what is it about black people complaining in particular that rubs you up worse than white people? I mean, we whinge too, and often with less excuse.

To be honest, there are various other groups (Hispanics and Latinos, Jews, Muslims, etc.) I could have written about that feel, sometimes rightly at times and sometimes not, discriminated against, but black individuals seem, to me, to be the most vocal about it. I will be the first to admit that the black race has historically been very mistreated, and many still are. However, does that entitle them to a pass on having to use logic, honesty, and facts? I mean, does the white race have to collectively hang it's head in shame and take blame for everything bad that's happened to the black race, whether it's white folks' fault or not, in order to make amends for their mistreatment? :rolleyes: Not all employers that don't hire a black person are racist. There are various reasons one may decide not to hire somebody who just happens to be black. They aren't qualified. They aren't very professional. You know, the same reasons a white person might not get hired. Yes, there are police officers that are racist and guilty of racial profiling, police brutality, etc. But, I tell you what, if I was a cop and some young punk pointed a gun at me I wouldn't hesitate to blow him away if he was black. Or white. Or Asian. Or Latino. Get my point? I have seen numerous examples of situations where blacks have thrown in the race card even when it was clear race was not a factor other than in the minds of the black individuals involved or those observing. I'm just getting a little sick of it. I have no problem with black folks legitimately griping about obvious and verifiable racism against them. I do have a problem when instances of "racism" are claimed solely because of paranoia and bitterness and passed off as being fact.

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 12:02 AM
And why is it okay for Grambling State University to hire only black professors and admit only black students? Check out the Grambling photo page... Where are the white folk? http://www.gram.edu/administration/President/photo1.asp

Or how about Alcorn State University? Where are the white kids? Where are the white faculty? http://www.alcorn.edu/about/glance.htmjeffreys, do you know how many whites applied and were denied admission? Would it surprise you to find out that hardly any applied and that most of those that did, WERE accepted? :hmm:

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 12:26 AM
jeffreys, do you know how many whites applied and were denied admission? Would it surprise you to find out that hardly any applied and that most of those that did, WERE accepted? :hmm:
Not at all.

And would it surprise you if there was a website dedicated to "white colleges" and there was a public furor - led by Al Sharpton - about such a thing? Of course not. In fact, it's to be expected.


Here's the problem.

In America today...
Al Sharpton - hero and folk legend; David Duke - villain.
Black colleges - good; white colleges - banal.
Black discrimination - to be expected; white discrimination - the cause of all problems.
NAACP - good; KKK - bad.


The real problem is that they are all discriminatory, not just some. They are all racist, not just some. They all need to be left behind, not just some.

Until everybody - blacks included - admits and owns up to the fact that there are people of all races who are bigoted and racist, we'll have nothing but this self-perpetuating circus. People of all races, colors and backgrounds need to quit being such cry-babies and excuse-makers, and get busy with life.

Matthew
Jan 23rd 2008, 12:48 AM
Not at all.

And would it surprise you if there was a website dedicated to "white colleges" and there was a public furor - led by Al Sharpton - about such a thing? Of course not. In fact, it's to be expected.


Here's the problem.

In America today...
Al Sharpton - hero and folk legend; David Duke - villain.
Black colleges - good; white colleges - banal.
Black discrimination - to be expected; white discrimination - the cause of all problems.
NAACP - good; KKK - bad.


The real problem is that they are all discriminatory, not just some. They are all racist, not just some. They all need to be left behind, not just some.

Until everybody - blacks included - admits and owns up to the fact that there are people of all races who are bigoted and racist, we'll have nothing but this self-perpetuating circus. People of all races, colors and backgrounds need to quit being such cry-babies and excuse-makers, and get busy with life.

I see the point you're getting at, but don't agree with you're comparisons. The NAACP is not the same thing as the KKK. Not even close.

I see no problem with black colleges as long as they let whites in. They were formed out of a necessity for places of higher education for blacks. They should be proud that they were able to build themselves up in a time when America treated blacks as second-class citizens. That's a victory that should be embraced by blacks. Just because America has changed doesn't mean the schools have to forget their roots.

This thread is fundamentally flawed, IMO. I've been pleased to see that no one is posting with a malicious intent. Even so, it seems misguided to try to say that one side complains too much or receives preferential treatment. There's no answer to this thread. Whites can complain about one thing and blacks can complain about another. Both may have legitimate beefs, but that gets us nowhere.

That's my 2 cents anyway. Again, I'm glad to see how everyone has treated each other in this thread. It's commendable given how sensitive a topic racism is in America.

RoadWarrior
Jan 23rd 2008, 01:06 AM
...

I have no issue with black business owners hireing black employees. A business owner is free to hire whomever they choose. It's not like there are not pleanty of white business owners who refuse to hire any other race but their own. I don't see too many people complaining about that issue.

I heard a wise person say a few years ago, that a manager tends to hire people like himself. That has nothing to do with race. It has to do with hiring people with whom you are comfortable, and people who won't rock the boat.

On a similar thought, there is an issue for Christian companies who naturally want to have Christian employees, being forced by law to hire an atheist who files suit for the job. Imagine an atheist working in a Christian bookstore ... or being the secretary of the church.

I know, I hijacked the thread. You can have it back now.

Warrior4God
Jan 23rd 2008, 01:13 AM
And going all out to make sure they are pointed out does nothing but create more problems. Something Christians should be above.

How do you sppose this thread has made our black brothers and sisters feel? Was any thought given to that?

What's the issue? I didn't call anybody names. I didn't insult anybody. I didn't imply or state that I don't like blacks or that I think they are inferior to whites, etc. If somebody black reads my posts and they aren't guilty of anything I've complained about, then it's no harm and no foul. If they are guilty then maybe they will start to look at my posts and concede that I have some valid points and, better yet, make some changes as to how they interact with people. If they are offended at me that's too bad. I make no apologies for anything I've posted on this topic.

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 01:42 AM
jeffreys, my hubby is white, I am black. Believe me, I have seen both sides of this issue. Take a look at the percentages at 'regular' colleges and you will see that we don't need a 'white colleges' category. Admission are STILL disproportionately skewed as daughter said they are in the UK. Stories like this one http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2830-2004Nov21.html are similar ALL over the country. We are NOT taking away spots from white students. The numbers just do not support that.

Warrior4God
Jan 23rd 2008, 02:06 AM
aaron 35 stated: "Or like the Jena 6 deal that went down where white kids placed nooses in trees (admittedly sick and wrong but apparently not illegal in Jena) to intimidate black kids and no charges were brought against the white kids. Some black people apparently think the white kids didn't go to jail because the court system doesn't like blacks even though it was announced the prosecutors didn't charge the white kids because they couldn't find any laws that were actually broken."


KATA_ LOUKAN stated in response: "This was horrible. You think this is merely "being a jerk"? If somebody threatened death to Christians at a Southern school, those involved would be SEVERELY punnished, if not murdered by wackos."

I will be the first one to admit that what the white kids did was deplorable, but the problem is that they didn't break any laws that were in effect at the time. You can't throw somebody in jail just because you don't like them or something they did. They actually have to break laws. The fact is, the prosecutors had no ability to file charges against the white kids. It has nothing to do with the court system being racist. Hanging a noose, as disgusting as it may be, isn't illegal in Jena. In many places that would have been a hate crime, but apparently not there. If people want to see that change then they need to persuade legislators to make new laws. I'm not letting the white kids off the hook. To be honest, I can see why the black kids beat the snot out of the one white kid. It wasn't right but totally understandable.

Seeker of truth
Jan 23rd 2008, 02:33 AM
What's the issue? I didn't call anybody names. I didn't insult anybody. I didn't imply or state that I don't like blacks or that I think they are inferior to whites, etc. If somebody black reads my posts and they aren't guilty of anything I've complained about, then it's no harm and no foul. If they are guilty then maybe they will start to look at my posts and concede that I have some valid points and, better yet, make some changes as to how they interact with people. If they are offended at me that's too bad. I make no apologies for anything I've posted on this topic.

Interesting response :hmm:

I think perhaps we should refrain from further conversation. How about we agree to disagree?

Warrior4God
Jan 23rd 2008, 02:52 AM
Interesting response :hmm:

I think perhaps we should refrain from further conversation. How about we agree to disagree?

Sure. No problem. I'm not trying to tick you off. I'm just being brutally honest. If you insist we drop the discussion between us I will totally respect your request. :D

Seeker of truth
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:04 AM
Sure. No problem. I'm not trying to tick you off. I'm just being brutally honest. If you insist we drop the discussion between us I will totally respect your request. :D

Just on this paticular issue. I look forward to posting with you on other issues :)

th1bill
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:10 AM
Hey Bill - you might want to read post #12. I purposely live in a neighborhood that is (probably) 80-90% black.

Now... as for the black answer to the KKK? It's the NAACP. ;)
The gentleman that saved my life once is a black man that lives in the woods close to me. I have never seen the NAACP ride their horses into my house and abuse anyone. Edwards, on the other hand has seen his mother kicked in the face inside their house by a KKK horse rider. In spite of that, knowing that I lived less than fifty miles from him in Texas, 12 white men stood there betting how bad I was hurt and how long it would take the medic to get to me and the only black man there picked me up in his arms and ran to the hospital tent. I reject your comment totally.

Warrior4God
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:22 AM
I actually laughed when I read this.

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg


Oh, come on. Things can't be this bad! :lol:

th1bill
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:32 AM
The whole thing boils down to just one thing, no matter how much it is discussed, until white men extend the rught hand of friendship to the black men there will be no resolution. In my better than 60 years I cannot count the times a new black man has offered me his right hand in friendship and I will never be able to even estimate the number of times I've seen that same hand extended to another white man and saw it rejected. If you want to see the Al Sharptons disappear, as you conceive them? Go get a plate of grits, a cup of black coffee and enjoy breakfast with some of the friendliest people in the world. Short of that, don't forget to turn over, lying to long with one side to the fire will make you even more uncomfortable.

You never want to be with me when I see Col. John Robert. He's a "big" black Marine that always gives me a bear hug when we meet. He was the commander at Khe San and he seems to appreciate a stupid white boy that would pull his bacon out of the fire. Get to know them and those black people are just like us, funny that way.

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:49 AM
jeffreys, my hubby is white, I am black. Believe me, I have seen both sides of this issue. Take a look at the percentages at 'regular' colleges and you will see that we don't need a 'white colleges' category. Admission are STILL disproportionately skewed as daughter said they are in the UK. Stories like this one http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2830-2004Nov21.html are similar ALL over the country. We are NOT taking away spots from white students. The numbers just do not support that.

I don't believe I've ever claimed that blacks are "taking away spots from white students." In fact, quite the contrary, I don't care what "color" students are. The most qualified should be in. Period.

And the most qualified applicant should get the job, regardless of color.

But that doesn't always happen. In fact, it often doesn't. And - once again - it is NOT just blacks who are discriminated against. It is NOT just whites who are racists.

Further, we cannot erase past wrongs by creating and perpetrating current wrongs. It just doesn't work that way.

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:50 AM
The gentleman that saved my life once is a black man that lives in the woods close to me. I have never seen the NAACP ride their horses into my house and abuse anyone. Edwards, on the other hand has seen his mother kicked in the face inside their house by a KKK horse rider. In spite of that, knowing that I lived less than fifty miles from him in Texas, 12 white men stood there betting how bad I was hurt and how long it would take the medic to get to me and the only black man there picked me up in his arms and ran to the hospital tent. I reject your comment totally.

So apparently there are no blatant racists in the NAACP. I stand corrected. :hmm:

Warrior4God
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:58 AM
The whole thing boils down to just one thing, no matter how much it is discussed, until white men extend the rught hand of friendship to the black men there will be no resolution. In my better than 60 years I cannot count the times a new black man has offered me his right hand in friendship and I will never be able to even estimate the number of times I've seen that same hand extended to another white man and saw it rejected. If you want to see the Al Sharptons disappear, as you conceive them? Go get a plate of grits, a cup of black coffee and enjoy breakfast with some of the friendliest people in the world. Short of that, don't forget to turn over, lying to long with one side to the fire will make you even more uncomfortable.

You never want to be with me when I see Col. John Robert. He's a "big" black Marine that always gives me a bear hug when we meet. He was the commander at Khe San and he seems to appreciate a stupid white boy that would pull his bacon out of the fire. Get to know them and those black people are just like us, funny that way.


I totally get what you are saying here. One of my good friends is black. We are on the worship team together at church. He plays the bass and I play the drums. I always call him my right hand man and "my brother from another mother." :lol: Without him I can't play the drums near as well. He helps keep me on beat with his playing. He's a great guy. Loves God. Loves people. Loves music, especially gospel music and jazz. If anybody has the opinion that I started this thread out of racial hatred for blacks they are painfully incorrect. Race ain't nothing but a color, and we all bleed red. Blacks are no better and no worse than whites. We all need a Savior to save us from our sins and damnation in hell. Nazis and skin-heads are an embarrassment to the white race and the human race, for that matter. I have no problems with black people as a whole, just the things I have pointed out in my posts. To be fair, there are plenty of things white folks do to annoy me, too. Folks with lots of melanin in their skin don't have a monopoly on that! :lol:

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 04:03 AM
The whole thing boils down to just one thing, no matter how much it is discussed, until white men extend the rught hand of friendship to the black men there will be no resolution. In my better than 60 years I cannot count the times a new black man has offered me his right hand in friendship and I will never be able to even estimate the number of times I've seen that same hand extended to another white man and saw it rejected. If you want to see the Al Sharptons disappear, as you conceive them? Go get a plate of grits, a cup of black coffee and enjoy breakfast with some of the friendliest people in the world. Short of that, don't forget to turn over, lying to long with one side to the fire will make you even more uncomfortable.

You never want to be with me when I see Col. John Robert. He's a "big" black Marine that always gives me a bear hug when we meet. He was the commander at Khe San and he seems to appreciate a stupid white boy that would pull his bacon out of the fire. Get to know them and those black people are just like us, funny that way.


Been there, done that. In fact, it wasn't too long ago that I went to Lutfi's Fish for some fantastic catfish, boiled corn & collard greens. Clearly it is an ethnic restaurant. The proprietors & workers are all black. Ironically, every single one of the patrons was white. Seems to me that us racist white people are supporting a black business - a black business that is devoid of black customers.

And in case you missed it, I'll restate it. I live in the black area of our city. I live in a neighborhood that is 80-90% black. My daughter goes to a huge high school where 80+% of the students are black. Every single one of the blacks at the church I pastor is warmly welcomed and deeply loved. What's more, we are not living here because we have to, but because we want to.

I moved my family across two states to relocate to this area and am intentionally "extending the right hand of friendship" to all the black people I meet. What you are claiming racist white people are not doing is actually being done all around you. Flat out... I am doing 10 times more - in my own little corner of my neighborhood - to improve race relations than Al Sharpton will ever do. In fact, I really wish I had the ability to undo even a fraction of the damage his racism does to race relations in America.

threebigrocks
Jan 23rd 2008, 04:04 AM
jeffreys, do you know how many whites applied and were denied admission? Would it surprise you to find out that hardly any applied and that most of those that did, WERE accepted? :hmm:

Along those lines, and it seems that you were going in this direction, how about the businesses that are in mostly black neighborhoods? How about mostly hispanic? Mostly white? How about those who are mixed? Where the population is as such, so goes the schools and businesses. Common sense to me.

I work for a company that is putting an addition on a casino, owned by native americans. Many of the people who work at the casino are native american. Many are not. On the reservation there are, logically, native americans. Yet, there they are in the midts of a very much white population in the surrounding community. The casino employs both, because both are present.


The whole thing boils down to just one thing, no matter how much it is discussed, until white men extend the rught hand of friendship to the black men there will be no resolution. In my better than 60 years I cannot count the times a new black man has offered me his right hand in friendship and I will never be able to even estimate the number of times I've seen that same hand extended to another white man and saw it rejected. If you want to see the Al Sharptons disappear, as you conceive them? Go get a plate of grits, a cup of black coffee and enjoy breakfast with some of the friendliest people in the world. Short of that, don't forget to turn over, lying to long with one side to the fire will make you even more uncomfortable.

You never want to be with me when I see Col. John Robert. He's a "big" black Marine that always gives me a bear hug when we meet. He was the commander at Khe San and he seems to appreciate a stupid white boy that would pull his bacon out of the fire. Get to know them and those black people are just like us, funny that way.



We are all people. I went to a high school for two years that left me a monority. I'm not sure there was a majority of one race, it was just a sampling of humanity. I miss that, the diversity. They were some of the coolest people I ever got to know.

Those who cry racism and those who feed the reasons to still do so aren't the majority of the population. Good people are found, and are a majority, in each race we can recognize on this planet.

Seeker of truth
Jan 23rd 2008, 04:06 AM
Now this thread is becomming about having black friends? :dunno: What irony ;)

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 04:07 AM
I totally get what you are saying here. One of my good friends is black. We are on the worship team together at church. He plays the bass and I play the drums. I always call him my right hand man and "my brother from another mother." :lol: Without him I can't play the drums near as well. He helps keep me on beat with his playing. He's a great guy. Loves God. Loves people. Loves music, especially gospel music and jazz. If anybody has the opinion that I started this thread out of racial hatred for blacks they are painfully incorrect. Race ain't nothing but a color, and we all bleed red. Blacks are no better and no worse than whites. We all need a Savior to save us from our sins and damnation in hell. Nazis and skin-heads are an embarrassment to the white race and the human race, for that matter. I have no problems with black people as a whole, just the things I have pointed out in my posts. To be fair, there are plenty of things white folks do to annoy me, too. Folks with lots of melanin in their skin don't have a monopoly on that! :lol:

And there's the answer!

Living together, working together, worshiping together and loving people as Jesus did.

RoadWarrior
Jan 23rd 2008, 05:45 AM
OK, you guys have convinced me...






I'm voting for OBAMA! :pp






wait ...:hmm:





that doesn't solve the problem ....:(








He's half white! :o

th1bill
Jan 23rd 2008, 05:50 AM
I totally get what you are saying here. One of my good friends is black. We are on the worship team together at church. He plays the bass and I play the drums. I always call him my right hand man and "my brother from another mother." :lol: Without him I can't play the drums near as well. He helps keep me on beat with his playing. He's a great guy. Loves God. Loves people. Loves music, especially gospel music and jazz. If anybody has the opinion that I started this thread out of racial hatred for blacks they are painfully incorrect. Race ain't nothing but a color, and we all bleed red. Blacks are no better and no worse than whites. We all need a Savior to save us from our sins and damnation in hell. Nazis and skin-heads are an embarrassment to the white race and the human race, for that matter. I have no problems with black people as a whole, just the things I have pointed out in my posts. To be fair, there are plenty of things white folks do to annoy me, too. Folks with lots of melanin in their skin don't have a monopoly on that! :lol:
I hope that you will understand that your first sentence in this reply destroyed all credibility with me and with every person of "color" (I hate that term) that ever reads your words here. If I were you I would delete that post and then I will delete mine in response.

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 12:34 PM
I don't believe I've ever claimed that blacks are "taking away spots from white students." In fact, quite the contrary, I don't care what "color" students are. The most qualified should be in. Period.

And the most qualified applicant should get the job, regardless of color.

But that doesn't always happen. In fact, it often doesn't. And - once again - it is NOT just blacks who are discriminated against. It is NOT just whites who are racists.

Further, we cannot erase past wrongs by creating and perpetrating current wrongs. It just doesn't work that way.Actually, you'll find that at black colleges they are NOT 100% black. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0771723.html As I posted before most white students do not apply to these schools. If they did and were qualified, they WOULD get in. It's not like they are attempting to keep people of other races out. They usually started out as simply a college that happened to be founded by a black person. Not racist at all.

As to businesses, it pretty much goes the same way. They are not called black businesses because they only hire black people, but because they happened to be black and start a business. If I were to start a business, it would be called a black business. I long for the day when it will JUST be called a business. :rolleyes: I think 3BR explained it they best in that businesses hire from the pool of available people around them. Many so-called black businesses are in black neighborhoods and are hence more likely to have a higher percentage of black people.

You know what? As a black woman I have no problem with the question of why the race card is pulled out so often. I actually believe that is a fair question which I'll get to in just a minute. What I DO have a problem with is throwing colleges and business in the midst of the discussion. One issue is valid and the other is not. Of course the NAACP is nothing like the KKK. If you (jeffreys & aaron35) would have said the Black Panthers, I would say they're more so. The KKK, however, has been the cause of so much death and destruction that really, blacks don't have anything that would compare. The NAACP is merely an organization that attempts to assist black people in 'catching up', and there's still quite a way to go. ;)

Now to the question of why the race card gets played. I have a good friend that recently lost his job after there was a pretty bad accident on the job site. As he was telling my hubby and I the story he brought up the race card. I stopped him dead in his tracks. I asked him if he thought it might be that he had been the last one hired and the other party had been with the company for years, and he said yes. So, I told him not to assume the other. But why does it happen? Why does it come up so much? Sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not. The reason it comes up, is because it's always a possibility.

My hubby had a job once where the owner pretty much said he was in the KKK. This, of course, did not happen at the interview so he had already taken the job (which was a good one financially). He kept his head down, his mouth shut, and did his job. One day one of his coworkers stopped by the house unannounced and I just happened to be on the porch. Well, his boss called him into the office two days later, said it wasn't working out and threw his last check on the floor, making him have to bend down to the floor to pick it up. That was because of the race issue. Though most times it's not so obvious.

So, that is the answer to the valid question in the OP. The race card always comes up becomes sometimes it is an issue but it's often hard to know. My suggestion? We all, black and white, need to stop making it a factor. Just as you notice it, I notice it. Do you know how many times I have had white men say they didn't get into college because of a black issue? I've posted a link with stats that show black enrollment in colleges is still minuscule. So, let's just learn to ignore it and stop talking about it so our kids won't have to hear it, so they'll NEVER have to learn to ignore it. :D Believe it or not, we notice it because we have been programmed to separate by color. I too have a dream that some day I will be just a woman and the color need only be used to describe me if someone who doesn't know me has to pick me up at the airport! :lol:

God Bless!

Warrior4God
Jan 23rd 2008, 02:12 PM
I hope that you will understand that your first sentence in this reply destroyed all credibility with me and with every person of "color" (I hate that term) that ever reads your words here. If I were you I would delete that post and then I will delete mine in response.

"I totally get what you are saying here." That was the first sentence in my last post. I'm not sure what you mean by it destroyed all credibility with you. I do have a black friend. I didn't make him up just to sound cool or something. As a Christian, I have no need nor reason to lie. His name is William Green and he goes by "Billy," "Willy," or "Will." He lives in Spokane, Washington. He is a postal carrier. He plays bass on the worship team at my church. He is married to the worship leader who is also our lead vocalist. He likes gospel and jazz. His favorite football teams are the Washington Redskins and Chicago Bears. He grew up in Chicago. He is really into track and cross country and coaches those sports at his daughter's school. I go to his house all the time to visit and eat dinner. Since I am apparently ignorant and/or not very observant, would you be so kind as to elaborate on how I lost credibility in my last post? Thanks.

th1bill
Jan 23rd 2008, 02:47 PM
"I totally get what you are saying here." That was the first sentence in my last post. I'm not sure what you mean by it destroyed all credibility with you. I do have a black friend. I didn't make him up just to sound cool or something. As a Christian, I have no need nor reason to lie. His name is William Green and he goes by "Billy," "Willy," or "Will." He lives in Spokane, Washington. He is a postal carrier. He plays bass on the worship team at my church. He is married to the worship leader who is also our lead vocalist. He likes gospel and jazz. His favorite football teams are the Washington Redskins and Chicago Bears. He grew up in Chicago. He is really into track and cross country and coaches those sports at his daughter's school. I go to his house all the time to visit and eat dinner. Since I am apparently ignorant and/or not very observant, would you be so kind as to elaborate on how I lost credibility in my last post? Thanks.
Then, as nicely as I can I'll explain it to you. I do not have white friends and black friends, I have friends. Top that off with the first words out of any bigots mouth will be something to the effect of, "I have a black friend." Having spent my life around these "people" I have grown to understand how they feel and some of their perceptions are dead on! Having spent my life with people, many of their habits have become mine. I love dishes originating in Vietnam and I can get into a real breakfast of eggs and grits. If my granddaughter picks a mate I'll not be looking at his skin to see if I approve and yes, she goes to a predominately unwhite district. She sees people just like I do and enjoys life without all the sticky little things that drag folks down.

Like I said, your not real and if your "black" friend hasn't told you not to use that line, you might begin to wonder, I have.

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:23 PM
Then, as nicely as I can I'll explain it to you. I do not have white friends and black friends, I have friends. Top that off with the first words out of any bigots mouth will be something to the effect of, "I have a black friend." Having spent my life around these "people" I have grown to understand how they feel and some of their perceptions are dead on! Having spent my life with people, many of their habits have become mine. I love dishes originating in Vietnam and I can get into a real breakfast of eggs and grits. If my granddaughter picks a mate I'll not be looking at his skin to see if I approve and yes, she goes to a predominately unwhite district. She sees people just like I do and enjoys life without all the sticky little things that drag folks down.

Like I said, your not real and if your "black" friend hasn't told you not to use that line, you might begin to wonder, I have.


So... Aaron having a really good friend, who is a black man, makes Aaron a bigot? I'm not sure I'm following the logic here. :hmm:

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:31 PM
Actually, you'll find that at black colleges they are NOT 100% black. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0771723.html As I posted before most white students do not apply to these schools. If they did and were qualified, they WOULD get in. It's not like they are attempting to keep people of other races out. They usually started out as simply a college that happened to be founded by a black person. Not racist at all.

As to businesses, it pretty much goes the same way. They are not called black businesses because they only hire black people, but because they happened to be black and start a business. If I were to start a business, it would be called a black business. I long for the day when it will JUST be called a business. :rolleyes: I think 3BR explained it they best in that businesses hire from the pool of available people around them. Many so-called black businesses are in black neighborhoods and are hence more likely to have a higher percentage of black people.

You know what? As a black woman I have no problem with the question of why the race card is pulled out so often. I actually believe that is a fair question which I'll get to in just a minute. What I DO have a problem with is throwing colleges and business in the midst of the discussion. One issue is valid and the other is not. Of course the NAACP is nothing like the KKK. If you (jeffreys & aaron35) would have said the Black Panthers, I would say they're more so. The KKK, however, has been the cause of so much death and destruction that really, blacks don't have anything that would compare. The NAACP is merely an organization that attempts to assist black people in 'catching up', and there's still quite a way to go. ;)

Now to the question of why the race card gets played. I have a good friend that recently lost his job after there was a pretty bad accident on the job site. As he was telling my hubby and I the story he brought up the race card. I stopped him dead in his tracks. I asked him if he thought it might be that he had been the last one hired and the other party had been with the company for years, and he said yes. So, I told him not to assume the other. But why does it happen? Why does it come up so much? Sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not. The reason it comes up, is because it's always a possibility.

My hubby had a job once where the owner pretty much said he was in the KKK. This, of course, did not happen at the interview so he had already taken the job (which was a good one financially). He kept his head down, his mouth shut, and did his job. One day one of his coworkers stopped by the house unannounced and I just happened to be on the porch. Well, his boss called him into the office two days later, said it wasn't working out and threw his last check on the floor, making him have to bend down to the floor to pick it up. That was because of the race issue. Though most times it's not so obvious.

So, that is the answer to the valid question in the OP. The race card always comes up becomes sometimes it is an issue but it's often hard to know. My suggestion? We all, black and white, need to stop making it a factor. Just as you notice it, I notice it. Do you know how many times I have had white men say they didn't get into college because of a black issue? I've posted a link with stats that show black enrollment in colleges is still minuscule. So, let's just learn to ignore it and stop talking about it so our kids won't have to hear it, so they'll NEVER have to learn to ignore it. :D Believe it or not, we notice it because we have been programmed to separate by color. I too have a dream that some day I will be just a woman and the color need only be used to describe me if someone who doesn't know me has to pick me up at the airport! :lol:

God Bless!

Hey Studyin...

You make some excellent points. Thank you!

My comparison of the NAACP to the KKK was, in retrospect, faulty. And you're right, the Black Panthers would have been a better comparison.

So here's a question: Do blacks in America summarily condemn the mentality and practices of the Black Panthers? Do you? The reason I ask that is because I know of absolutely no white people (at least any I know) who have anything but scorn for the KKK.


The point that I will continue to make is that there are people of all races that need to grow up, shut up, and simply be people. Stop looking for excuses. Stop looking for scapegoats. Just work hard, love people, make the best choices you can, and live your life.

The fact that I am (quite literally) surrounded by successful black people is not any kind of a problem for me. Why should I be upset if my neighbor gets a huge bonus check at the end of the year - regardless of what color his skin is? It kind of seems like my neighbor's success would, on some level, be my success too.


Anyway... blessings to you! :)

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:35 PM
Okay, let's all just back up and take a deep breath. IN - OUT Alright, this topic is controversial enough so let's not make it a personal one. The bottom line is that most of us have no clue of who the other is outside of cyberspace. Most times it's not what you say but HOW you say it and unfortunately none of us can hear HOW things are being said. So, no more personal jabs or I'll to make you apologize to your brother and cyberhug! :hug:

diffangle
Jan 23rd 2008, 03:42 PM
Great post D. :)


Actually, you'll find that at black colleges they are NOT 100% black. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0771723.html As I posted before most white students do not apply to these schools. If they did and were qualified, they WOULD get in. It's not like they are attempting to keep people of other races out. They usually started out as simply a college that happened to be founded by a black person. Not racist at all.

As to businesses, it pretty much goes the same way. They are not called black businesses because they only hire black people, but because they happened to be black and start a business. If I were to start a business, it would be called a black business. I long for the day when it will JUST be called a business. :rolleyes: I think 3BR explained it they best in that businesses hire from the pool of available people around them. Many so-called black businesses are in black neighborhoods and are hence more likely to have a higher percentage of black people.

You know what? As a black woman I have no problem with the question of why the race card is pulled out so often. I actually believe that is a fair question which I'll get to in just a minute. What I DO have a problem with is throwing colleges and business in the midst of the discussion. One issue is valid and the other is not. Of course the NAACP is nothing like the KKK. If you (jeffreys & aaron35) would have said the Black Panthers, I would say they're more so. The KKK, however, has been the cause of so much death and destruction that really, blacks don't have anything that would compare. The NAACP is merely an organization that attempts to assist black people in 'catching up', and there's still quite a way to go. ;)

Now to the question of why the race card gets played. I have a good friend that recently lost his job after there was a pretty bad accident on the job site. As he was telling my hubby and I the story he brought up the race card. I stopped him dead in his tracks. I asked him if he thought it might be that he had been the last one hired and the other party had been with the company for years, and he said yes. So, I told him not to assume the other. But why does it happen? Why does it come up so much? Sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not. The reason it comes up, is because it's always a possibility.

Imo, your friend probably would have not got the job in the first place if the employer was racist. :dunno:



My hubby had a job once where the owner pretty much said he was in the KKK. This, of course, did not happen at the interview so he had already taken the job (which was a good one financially). He kept his head down, his mouth shut, and did his job. One day one of his coworkers stopped by the house unannounced and I just happened to be on the porch. Well, his boss called him into the office two days later, said it wasn't working out and threw his last check on the floor, making him have to bend down to the floor to pick it up. That was because of the race issue. Though most times it's not so obvious.

That's :o... did ya'll consider any legal action?



So, that is the answer to the valid question in the OP. The race card always comes up becomes sometimes it is an issue but it's often hard to know. My suggestion? We all, black and white, need to stop making it a factor. Just as you notice it, I notice it. Do you know how many times I have had white men say they didn't get into college because of a black issue? I've posted a link with stats that show black enrollment in colleges is still minuscule. So, let's just learn to ignore it and stop talking about it so our kids won't have to hear it, so they'll NEVER have to learn to ignore it. :D Believe it or not, we notice it because we have been programmed to separate by color. I too have a dream that some day I will be just a woman and the color need only be used to describe me if someone who doesn't know me has to pick me up at the airport! :lol:

God Bless!

What... you mean move forward? :idea: :lol:

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 04:11 PM
**snip**
So here's a question: Do blacks in America summarily condemn the mentality and practices of the Black Panthers? Do you? The reason I ask that is because I know of absolutely no white people (at least any I know) who have anything but scorn for the KKK.
**snip**
The fact that I am (quite literally) surrounded by successful black people is not any kind of a problem for me. Why should I be upset if my neighbor gets a huge bonus check at the end of the year - regardless of what color his skin is? It kind of seems like my neighbor's success would, on some level, be my success too.
**snip**Actually, I know my parents were not a part of the movement and I don't know anyone who was. The Party no longer exists so there's nothing to support or reject in the present. I do know that unlike the KKK, the Black Panther's said they did not hate white people but rather wanted to be protection for blacks who at the time were still having crosses burned on their lawns and were being lynched. Would I have supported them had I been of age at that time? Probably not as I'm more of a non-violent sort like Dr. King. The BPP held to the Malcolm X philosophy of by any means necessary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party I would not have supported them but I would have understood the motivation for those who did. It was a much more dangerous time to be a black person. My father remembered his friends being beaten and watching the flicker of a cross burning come through the window and praying that they hadn't come for YOUR family. Today what is called the New Black Panther Party, is really an offshoot of the nation of Islam and by no means do I support them! :o

As for wanting our neighbors to be successful no matter what color they are. I agree 100%! That way when they buy new stuff and put out their old stuff, we can get it for free! :lol:

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 04:38 PM
Actually, I know my parents were not a part of the movement and I don't know anyone who was. The Party no longer exists so there's nothing to support or reject in the present. I do know that unlike the KKK, the Black Panther's said they did not hate white people but rather wanted to be protection for black who at the time were still having crosses burned on their lawns and were being lynched. Would I have supported them had I been of age at that time? Probably not as I'm more of a non-violent sort like Dr. King. The BPP held to the Malcolm X philosophy of by any means necessary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party I would not have supported them but I would have understood the motivation for those who did. It was a much more dangerous time to be a black person. My father remembered his friends being beaten and watching the flicker of a cross burning come through the window and praying that they hadn't come for YOUR family. Today what is called the New Black Panther Party, is really an offshoot of the nation of Islam and by no means do I support them! :o

As for wanting our neighbors to be successful no matter what color they are. I agree 100%! That way when they buy new stuff and put out their old stuff, we can get it for free! :lol:

Actually, I'm kind of wishing my "rich black neighbors" would install a high-powered wireless router and NOT password protect their internet. What is WRONG with these people? :lol:

On a serious note... as I've said many times before, I live in a predominantly black, very multi-racial area of Omaha. Many people I've talked to said that it used to be a very bad place to live - both for blacks and for whites. 40 years ago, there were horrible racial tensions.

That's not the case now. Certainly there are "pockets of idiocy" here, as there are everywhere. But that kind of stuff is the extreme exception, and in no way the norm. We love it here.

The real problem here is gang & drug related crime, and black-on-black violence. And as weird as it sounds to say it, I don't think it's a racial problem. It's spiritual. And it's socio-economic. But what's worse, is that I don't know what to do about it.

RoadWarrior
Jan 23rd 2008, 04:45 PM
...

On a serious note... as I've said many times before, I live in a predominantly black, very multi-racial area of Omaha. Many people I've talked to said that it used to be a very bad place to live - both for blacks and for whites. 40 years ago, there were horrible racial tensions.

That's not the case now. Certainly there are "pockets of idiocy" here, as there are everywhere. But that kind of stuff is the extreme exception, and in no way the norm. We love it here.

The real problem here is gang & drug related crime, and black-on-black violence. And as weird as it sounds to say it, I don't think it's a racial problem. It's spiritual. And it's socio-economic. But what's worse, is that I don't know what to do about it.

It is wonderful to know that progress has been and is being made. Healing can take a long time, but it is good to know that there has been improvement. I love that you made your last statement - "I don't know what to do about it." Many of us are in that position. How can we help to make things better?

I'd love to hear some responses to that one.

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 05:02 PM
**snip**
The real problem here is gang & drug related crime, and black-on-black violence. And as weird as it sounds to say it, I don't think it's a racial problem. It's spiritual. And it's socio-economic. But what's worse, is that I don't know what to do about it.
**snip**You've hit the nail right on the head. The cross was used against blacks for so long that many refuse to run to it. Even today there are still those who believe that the mark on Cain was that God turned him black. :rolleyes: Which in some circles, is used to justify slavery and oppression. And how about the violent act of burn crosses :o of all things! Like the Jews who were persecuted by those who said they represented Yeshua (Jesus) so that now many would NEVER consider Christ and even those who do sometimes will not be called Christians. It most definitely is a spiritual matter. The enemy has been very busy attempting to make the cross a scary place for some to take refuge. :(

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 05:12 PM
It is wonderful to know that progress has been and is being made. Healing can take a long time, but it is good to know that there has been improvement. I love that you made your last statement - "I don't know what to do about it." Many of us are in that position. How can we help to make things better?

I'd love to hear some responses to that one .

In my little corner of the world, it's more about what I'm NOT doing. I'm simply NOT making race an issue.

Will I eat at a black owned & run Catfish Restaurant? Absolutely, and without hesitation!
Am I happy to see blacks come to the church I pastor? Absolutely, as is every other person in the church!
Am I happy to live in a black neighborhood? Absolutely, and I do.
Am I happy to have my daughter at a high school that's 80+% black? Absolutely, and none of us have any problem with it!

Have I had ANY race-related problems here in the dreaded "North O" - where I am part of the minority race? No. Not one single one.

jeffreys
Jan 23rd 2008, 05:13 PM
You've hit the nail right on the head. The cross was used against blacks for so long that many refuse to run to it. Even today there are still those who believe that the mark on Cain was that God turned him black. :rolleyes: Which in some circles, is used to justify slavery and oppression. And how about the violent act of burn crosses :o of all things! Like the Jews who were persecuted by those who said they represented Yeshua (Jesus) so that now many would NEVER consider Christ and even those who do sometimes will not be called Christians. It most definitely is a spiritual matter. The enemy has been very busy attempting to make the cross a scary place for some to take refuge. :(

Yep, you're absolutely right. People have made a huge mess of racial issues. It's not just one race/color that has done it, but all. :B

Brother Mark
Jan 23rd 2008, 05:56 PM
You've hit the nail right on the head. The cross was used against blacks for so long that many refuse to run to it. Even today there are still those who believe that the mark on Cain was that God turned him black. :rolleyes: Which in some circles, is used to justify slavery and oppression. And how about the violent act of burn crosses :o of all things! Like the Jews who were persecuted by those who said they represented Yeshua (Jesus) so that now many would NEVER consider Christ and even those who do sometimes will not be called Christians. It most definitely is a spiritual matter. The enemy has been very busy attempting to make the cross a scary place for some to take refuge. :(

The enemy never ceases to amazed me with his war efforts. Taking that which is meant to be grace and turning it into terror. Oh how I hate him!!! I look forward to the day when he gets what's coming to him... :mad:

RoadWarrior
Jan 23rd 2008, 05:58 PM
The enemy never ceases to amazed me with his war efforts. Taking that which is meant to be grace and turning it into terror. Oh how I hate him!!! I look forward to the day when he gets what's coming to him... :mad:

Amen. Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus.

diffangle
Jan 23rd 2008, 06:04 PM
S2S, I realize I got ignored in my last post but I really am curious as to how you and your husband handled that situation with his boss. That sort of thing shouldn't be allowed to happen nowadays. :(If you don't want to say, you can tell me to get lost. :D

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 06:22 PM
S2S, I realize I got ignored in my last post but I really am curious as to how you and your husband handled that situation with his boss. That sort of thing shouldn't be allowed to happen nowadays. :(If you don't want to say, you can tell me to get lost. :DNot ignored so much as just not answered! :lol: No, diff, we didn't sue or anything like that. Things like that are VERY hard to prove without a paper trail. Besides, he had only been working there for less than three months so he was still in the probationary period where an employee can get fired without cause, so.....

Anyway, that was about 1-2 weeks after I got saved and it is the reason my hubby sat up and took notice that his wife had not just started getting 'religious' but that she (I) had really been changed. Normally, I was the one who would fall apart at the drop of the hat but as Yeshua carried me through, I was able to help him get through this very difficult time. We had moved to SC from FL for THIS job and now it was gone. It could have been really devastating but it wasn't. It's become quite a testimony! :pp So, what the enemy meant for evil, God has used for His glory! Amen! :D

diffangle
Jan 23rd 2008, 06:37 PM
Not ignored so much as just not answered! :lol: No, diff, we didn't sue or anything like that. Things like that are VERY hard to prove without a paper trail. Besides, he had only been working there for less than three months so he was still in the probationary period where an employee can get fired without cause, so.....

Anyway, that was about 1-2 weeks after I got saved and it is the reason my hubby sat up and took notice that his wife had not just started getting 'religious' but that she (I) had really been changed. Normally, I was the one who would fall apart at the drop of the hat but as Yeshua carried me through, I was able to help him get through this very difficult time. We had moved to SC from FL for THIS job and now it was gone. It could have been really devastating but it wasn't. It's become quite a testimony! :pp So, what the enemy meant for evil, God has used for His glory! Amen! :D

Amein... HalleluYah! :pp

Hey and thanks for answering, I was beginning to feel like Casper the friendly ghost in this thread. :lol:

RoadWarrior
Jan 23rd 2008, 06:38 PM
...
Anyway, that was about 1-2 weeks after I got saved and it is the reason my hubby sat up and took notice that his wife had not just started getting 'religious' but that she (I) had really been changed. Normally, I was the one who would fall apart at the drop of the hat but as Yeshua carried me through, I was able to help him get through this very difficult time. We had moved to SC from FL for THIS job and now it was gone. It could have been really devastating but it wasn't. It's become quite a testimony! :pp So, what the enemy meant for evil, God has used for His glory! Amen! :D

Study, I can understand that happening in SC! So, I guess you moved back to Florida ..

Are those your children in your avatar? I love that picture!

And, OH! I do love how God does that - uses what the enemy means for evil, to His glory!

Studyin'2Show
Jan 23rd 2008, 06:38 PM
Amein... HalleluYah! :pp

Hey and thanks for answering, I was beginning to feel like Casper the friendly ghost in this thread. :lol:Is that a racial comment? :o :lol: Just kidding! ;)

diffangle
Jan 23rd 2008, 06:43 PM
Is that a racial comment? :o :lol: Just kidding! ;)
Is invisible a race? :hmm: :rofl:

daughter
Jan 24th 2008, 01:29 AM
I suggest we all ignore this thread, until admin locks it (which I hope they do soon.) I still don't know why he thought black people's persecution complex was more significant, and more deserving of comment than white people's persecution complex. I do know that this thread does nothing to bring glory to God... so I'm looking forward to it being stopped. At some point...

Studyin'2Show
Jan 24th 2008, 01:36 AM
Okay, here's the deal. I am going to close this thread but I do feel something needs to be set straight. Some people think the whole "I have a black friend" thing cause some black people to roll their eyes or whatnot because we think that the speaker is racist. :rolleyes: Not so. It's not about being bigoted but it's just that having a black friend doesn't mean you now completely 'get it'! I, being a woman, will never completely 'get' what it means to be a man. I can gain some understanding by watching my hubby but NEVER will I completely know what it is to be a man. That's why many times blacks will roll their eyes or something when the 'I have a black friend' comes out. Not because they believe the speaker is racist because of it but because having a black friend doesn't mean you now understand what it is to be a black person.

Okay, now this thread is closed. ;)

God Bless!

ProjectPeter
Jan 24th 2008, 02:16 PM
Let me add to this closed thread.

Some of you guys behaved in a manner in which I am shocked that it actually came from grown men. This was a controversial topic and was handled well for a good way into the thread. But then it seems that some folks just can't seem to help themselves and turned their Cujo on. I would ask folks, even you who are more aged, to ponder what you said in this thread and for goodness sake... grow up.

This is not to one person in particular and it isn't to everyone in the thread either. Those who this is applicable... hear me and understand.