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renthead188
Jan 29th 2008, 06:00 AM
My name is Christopher and I live on Long Island. I came to faith this past October. The Lord has done ALOT in my life since then. I live at home and am currently working towards my bachelor's in psychology. I work evenings in a cafe in a small suburban village.

One of our customers, Mark, comes in regularly each Monday. Two weeks ago I asked a friend about him. They told me that he taught a class on "Angelic Hierarchy". The following Monday I started a conversation with him in which he volunteered this information. I asked him to expand on this and he directed me to a website. He also said "Yup, Angels aren't just for Christians any more! I thought I would point that out." It was at this point that I knew something was up. He told me that his classes were taught at "The Silver Broom" which affirmed my suspicions.

The next Monday (earlier this evening) he came to the cafe again. He told me that he needed to get some espresso before his class. Again he told me about the website saying "I think you'll be interested". This time he affirmed that he does in fact practice Wicca. *Again he volunteered all information* He also told me that tonight was to be the first of a 13 week program on witchcraft. He also mentioned that he would be returning to the store before every class. A quick look at the website (I didn't want to see anymore than the first page) showed me his picture and the title "Rev. Mark" underneath.

He seems very personable and friendly. He, also, seems very respectful. I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to how I could plant a seed over these next twelve weeks?

I want to ask questions such as "Do you believe in God?" or "Where do you believe that this 'power' comes from?" but to be honest, each time I have mentioned God (specifically Christ) to a Wiccan they have not reacted well at all. I realize that this may in fact be the fulfillment of "The devil and his demons tremble at His Name" Maybe I could ask "From where do you derive your authority to teach of The Angels?" I'm not really worried about his immediate ANSWERS to these questions, but rather that he ponders them himself, later.

I work every Monday Evening. His classes are Monday Nights. He drinks espresso before each class. Our shops are three doors away from each other.

Please pray for Mark. Please pray for me. Please leave some advice. Please watch this thread for any developments.

thank you

May The Lord bless you!

Christopher

angelus5370
Jan 29th 2008, 07:24 AM
Hi Chris,
This is a very tough trial indeed! You may want to start off with something non-intimidating, like "How did you get started teaching this class?" That question is general, and you will get the conversation started, but you may not like the answers, so just pray, and alot of patience...........pray before your conversations, God will reveal to you the words, and be patient; one thing I have learned as a Christian is we get so fired up for the Lord that sometimes we feel an urgency that always makes the wrong thing come from our lips..........I will also pray for you, and him.............God Bless

menJesus
Jan 29th 2008, 09:52 AM
I agree with angelus5370. Pray that the holy Spirit gives you the words to say as you talk with this man. Pray for him. I will be praying for you both.

Duane Morse
Jan 29th 2008, 10:11 AM
Then again:
Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Mograce2U
Jan 29th 2008, 04:11 PM
I think the angle you mentioned is worth considering. As a believer you know that there are holy and unholy angels. Your Wiccan friend does not make this distinction. Power is what attracts him. What he needs to know is that the serpent he is playing with will eventually bite him. And since you know that God brings consequences upon those who reject His word, you might leave him with the question of whether or not he is prepared for that? And I would be as matter of fact about it as possible.

karenoka27
Jan 29th 2008, 04:17 PM
I have relatives who are Wiccans as well. I took a Bible course and we had to interview someone of a different faith and I chose them. You are correct..they do not even like to hear about God or the mention of Jesus Christ name...which only confirms to me how important that name is.
I think I still have the interview, if I do..I'll share some of it if I see it will be helpful.

Darren
Jan 29th 2008, 05:07 PM
christopher,

god has placed you in the path of this young man for a reason. pray, my friend. ask god to supernaturally show you what to say. and whatever you sense in you about this lost one, say it. and trust god.

we are sowers, not soulwinners.

pray that god prepares the heart of this young man.

compel the holy spirit to stir that "measure of faith" locked away in his heart.

by the authority given you by jesus, order that no demon force from hell will be able to prevent this young man from hearing, receiving, and believing the seed of the gospel.("one plants")

he may look at you in an odd manner, he may get mad, he may roll his eyes, but do not let that discourage you.

after he leaves, pray that god somehow confirms what you have told him. ("some water")

and again order the demonic to stay away from the seed you planted.

then all you can do is continue to believe and trust god. ("god brings the increase")

that he will finish the work that you started.

---darren

renthead188
Jan 29th 2008, 09:21 PM
I know that I have been placed there for a reason. I was transferred out of my old location (full of Christians, it's where I met the people that God put in MY life to help lead me to salvation) to this new cafe where I am (quite literally) seperated from the rest of my coworkers, within weeks of giving my life to Christ. Since then I have been approached by half a dozen people, curious about God. There is also no coincidence in the fact that we BOTH will be there EVERY Monday evening.

Should I just outright say it next time he enters the building?

I mean... it seems that if I do he will just turn and walk away, perhaps laughing about it at his class later on that evening. Would that do any good to plant a seed?

For some reason I feel uneasy about doing this. I know that followers were given powers to cast out demons. Is it really as plain as ordering then to leave? Weren't there some that "only come out by prayer and fasting"? I know that I have ALWAYS envisioned how cool it would be to be able to command demons out in the name of The Lord. I always figured that I shouldn't look into it though, because I feared that I would get too prideful. Could this be satan attempting to bolster my pride by letting me do this? No, it probably couldn't be... right? Just as Christ said... "A house divided against itself will not stant. Satan will not cast out Satan." Or am I quoting that out of context?

I feel that it would be more effective to plant the seed of fear of the Lord in his heart. After all, that's where knowledge begins isn't it?

Could I get some more opinions on this? Thank you all, I eagerly await your responses.

grace and peace

Christopher

th1bill
Jan 29th 2008, 09:34 PM
I just sent an IM to Mary in England. She will be along soon after she sits back down to her computer. She was a Wiccan until just recently and is now preparing to go on the field and translate the Bible. She will be your most valuable resource.

renthead188
Jan 29th 2008, 09:40 PM
I just sent an IM to Mary in England. She will be along soon after she sits back down to her computer. She was a Wiccan until just recently and is now preparing to go on the field and translate the Bible. She will be your most valuable resource.

Thank you. It is really on my heart to pray for this man. This is such an blaring signal from The Lord. I will check this forum frequently, however I will be at bible study this evening for a couple of hours.

Mary please contact me. I will post my information where it is appropriate if someone would be able to tell me.

Thanks everyone, I'm going to ask my friends at bible study to prayer for him too.

Prayer Works

Christopher

th1bill
Jan 29th 2008, 09:45 PM
I just sent an IM to Mary in England. She will be along soon after she sits back down to her computer. She was a Wiccan until just recently and is now preparing to go on the field and translate the Bible. She will be your most valuable resource. I have also sent her an email.

Beloved by God
Jan 30th 2008, 03:30 AM
There is a woman on here whose user name is "daughter." You can go to the member list and look her up- she is ex-wiccan. It may be the same woman th1bill is talking about.

th1bill
Jan 30th 2008, 05:18 AM
There is a woman on here whose user name is "daughter." You can go to the member list and look her up- she is ex-wiccan. It may be the same woman th1bill is talking about.
Yes, Mary is her first name.

renthead188
Jan 30th 2008, 05:28 AM
I will contact her. Thank you. I have brough this before a few friends and they will be praying for him as well. Please pray that The Spirit will speak to this man. I will keep you updated.

Thank you all, God bless each of you!

Christopher

I<3Jesus
Jan 30th 2008, 09:28 AM
Good luck with your endeavor. I personally think that work is not a good place to witness to anyone. Perhaps you could befriend this person and possibly witness to him on your own time? I have seen a lot of people get fired for talking about their beliefs at work. I asked my pastor what he thought of this and he said that we are to walk the walk when we are at places like work. If you do that people will see a light in you and they will be curious to find out how it got there, but it is not appropriate to discuss it at work. You are being paid to do a job, not preach your beliefs. Just my honest opinion. I do not love God any less than anyone who does preach at work, but there is a time and place for everything.

renthead188
Jan 30th 2008, 05:13 PM
Good luck with your endeavor. I personally think that work is not a good place to witness to anyone. Perhaps you could befriend this person and possibly witness to him on your own time? I have seen a lot of people get fired for talking about their beliefs at work. I asked my pastor what he thought of this and he said that we are to walk the walk when we are at places like work. If you do that people will see a light in you and they will be curious to find out how it got there, but it is not appropriate to discuss it at work. You are being paid to do a job, not preach your beliefs. Just my honest opinion. I do not love God any less than anyone who does preach at work, but there is a time and place for everything.

I understand what you are saying. In many places I could see this being a difficult situation. I work in a cafe in a small suburban village. Nobody comes in on Monday nights, we barely make $1,600 on a Monday. My previous store, one that was much busier (bringing in close to 40k a week) was where I first began to grow in faith. I can remember quite a few times where we had bibles out behind the counter or had discussions with customers. I don't normally witness at work unless prompted. I am prompted often though. I read The Bible on my breaks and that simple act (which has nothing to do with witnessing) has prompted discussions with athiests, agnostics and scientologists. I have now been approached by a teacher of witchcraft asking me to join his class. I don't think that it's a coincidence that he and I will both be in the store at the same time, every monday for the next twelve weeks. I will take your advice if it seems appropriate in the future. For right now, I would hope that he will begin to think about where it is that this power comes from.

Thank you, I really appreciate your concern.

grace and peace

Christopher

daughter
Jan 30th 2008, 06:31 PM
Check your inbox.

aliveinchrist
Jan 30th 2008, 07:07 PM
I agree with you Christopher. I don't think the place you witness, is what you should be worrying about. I don't think God cares WHERE you witness, so much as the fact that you witness when he gives you the opportunity. If that makes sense?

It's apparent in what you wrote, that God is making this opportunity to witness to him, at work. At least, that's what I see. So, I suggest you go ahead and talk to him at work. If this wasn't the place, God would of made you two meet up in a different place.........if that makes sense?

renthead188
Jan 30th 2008, 07:28 PM
daughter i have replied to your message - thank you!

aliveinchrist - thank you. I truly believe that I am here for a purpose.

Thank you all for your support!

I<3Jesus
Jan 31st 2008, 01:27 AM
I agree with you Christopher. I don't think the place you witness, is what you should be worrying about. I don't think God cares WHERE you witness, so much as the fact that you witness when he gives you the opportunity. If that makes sense?

It's apparent in what you wrote, that God is making this opportunity to witness to him, at work. At least, that's what I see. So, I suggest you go ahead and talk to him at work. If this wasn't the place, God would of made you two meet up in a different place.........if that makes sense?

God doesn't care where you witness, but the people paying you to do a job do. Plain and simple you are there to work. That is what you are being paid for.

RevLogos
Jan 31st 2008, 02:27 AM
The Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (CARM) has some good info on Wicca that might help you out. Including an article on witnessing to Wiccans.

Here:

http://www.carm.org/wicca.htm

I'll pray for your success.

renthead188
Jan 31st 2008, 04:03 AM
The Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (CARM) has some good info on Wicca that might help you out. Including an article on witnessing to Wiccans.

Here:

http://www.carm.org/wicca.htm

I'll pray for your success.

This website has been VERY helpful. Keep praying please.

Christopher

renthead188
Jan 31st 2008, 04:11 AM
God doesn't care where you witness, but the people paying you to do a job do. Plain and simple you are there to work. That is what you are being paid for.

I don't believe that I am "plain and simply there to work" in this situation. Yes, I work so that I can earn money in my spare time (After classes) in the evenings. I believe that God has a plan. Ultimately though, to follow that line of thinking... I would eventually come to a choice between following The Spirit or denying Him so that I may not offend those that I work with, so that I could protect my own monetary gains.

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21

Thank you for your concern, though. I appreciate your advice.

grace and peace

Christopher

daughter
Jan 31st 2008, 08:26 AM
God doesn't care where you witness, but the people paying you to do a job do. Plain and simple you are there to work. That is what you are being paid for.
Is he never ever allowed to speak to the customers? If that's in his contract, sure. But if he's allowed to speak to people, I think he owes a greater duty to God. And this witch's immortal soul.

Always be ready, anytime anywhere to explain the hope we have... that's what Peter says, and he kind of knew what he was talking about. After all, on one famous occasion he thought it wasn't the time or place to confess Christ, and he lived to regret it.

What's the worst that can happen? Yes, perhaps he could lose his job. I hope and pray not... but if that's all he has to fear, he has greater to gain from serving God.

No Christian should ever advise another Christian "now's not the time or place." It's always the time to serve Him. We're on His payroll, not the world's.

th1bill
Jan 31st 2008, 09:02 AM
Mary is so very correct in stating that "Now is the time of salvation." A very good example of this is the fact that I am a sickly man in my old age and always in need of rest. One evening, just about my bed time, Mary's dear husband, also sick at the time, needed to speak to the bloke that had just ruined his family. Before Mary met me on the web they had a very nice family unit with he being a renowned Animal Activist, she being a Wiccan and their son already a published author against Christianity. (Mary, if I've gotten any point wrong please correct my feeble mind.) Now, I a Christian, of some reputation because of my internet activities, had every right to go on off to bed and not be bothered.
.. Had I done "the right thing," Neil would likely be waiting in Hades for the second resurection and Mary and her son would never have seen him again. Instead, I spoke with him, via the internet, until the wee hours of the morning about his eternal soul and he, as a result, is in Heaven, waiting for Mary and Seamus to arrive. My wife often waits for me, in the car, while I inconvenience her and others because I see someone that is in need of a word from God. I did the very same thing for all of my working years after salvation and I trusted God to preserve me, He did! You must believe God and just follow His lead.
.. I love Jesus and I am not ashamed of it. My dad, a WWII veteran, taught me that if you love a thing, you will die for it. The question is always, "How much do you love Jesus?"
.. God has truly blessed you, Mary. Mary often tells me of her adventures, because she knows how much I care for the work of the LORD. I never fail to tell my pastor what a blessing she is to me because, as one led to the foot of the cross by me, I share in the fruit of her labor, in Heaven. Mary is laying up treasure in Heaven, where riches truly count. I know the LORD knows of her work and I know that He knows of mine, good and bad. The only question anyone ever needs to answer, and to noone but themselves, is, "Ho many have I led to the LORD this week?"
.. God bless and bear fruit for the withered branch is pruned, that the new may bear fruit.

daughter
Jan 31st 2008, 12:40 PM
Bill is absolutely right. I came online shortly after what was to me a very scary experience... realising that there was a God, and He is Jesus, and Bill was one of the first people to council me, and give me the courage to keep going. He helped me with my bible readings, gave me great advice on how to minister to my husband, (if I had a choice between nagging and praying... pray!) prayed for our family, and we are all now Christians.

Bill, I didn't realise what time of night it was for you that you spoke to Neil that time... You're right. He needed to talk to a man, someone who, like himself, had life experience, the courage to speak up for what he believes in, and someone who he could relate to in a way only men can.

A wife is wonderful, but I still think that Neil needed to talk to a man who was down to earth, patient, but above all - honest. I know he asked you some gruff sounding questions, and you weren't at all judgemental, you just kept telling him the truth.

My husband had five or six months of Christian life then in which he could witness to his friends, and many of them have since come to know Christ. Each one person can start an avalanche. I don't know about you, but I can't wait to see all the saved in heaven!

Thank you Bill.

I<3Jesus
Jan 31st 2008, 01:55 PM
Is he never ever allowed to speak to the customers? If that's in his contract, sure. But if he's allowed to speak to people, I think he owes a greater duty to God. And this witch's immortal soul.

Always be ready, anytime anywhere to explain the hope we have... that's what Peter says, and he kind of knew what he was talking about. After all, on one famous occasion he thought it wasn't the time or place to confess Christ, and he lived to regret it.

What's the worst that can happen? Yes, perhaps he could lose his job. I hope and pray not... but if that's all he has to fear, he has greater to gain from serving God.

No Christian should ever advise another Christian "now's not the time or place." It's always the time to serve Him. We're on His payroll, not the world's.

Tell that to someone who has a family that relies on his paycheck and see if that works. My pastor says that we are to walk the walk in situations where we cannot talk the talk and people will still see a light in us through our actions. Most people do not put stock into those who constantly preach. They put stock in those who show Christ's love through their actions. Many people these days say they are Christians, but when they think no one is looking they do not act like it. What kind of message are you sending to a non believer if you constantly get fired for your efforts (I have a friend who has been fired from several jobs for discussing religion)? There are times to witness and there are times when it is inappropriate. God wants you to represent him, but he wants you to be the best representative you can be. It is not in his best interest or yours for you to be irresponsible and try to claim it as a victory. Regardless of what you say, no one can live without some sort of income unless they are mooching off someone else. We need to be responsible in addition to being Christ-like.

I<3Jesus
Jan 31st 2008, 05:57 PM
I was just thinking about this topic and have another way for you to look at it. Suppose you witness without restraint at your job and people stop patronizing where you work because they do not want to be "preached to." Sales are down, hours are cut and your boss (who may have their entire life and livelihood tied up in this endeavor) has to close the doors and claim bankruptcy. Do you feel guilty at all that you caused it or do you just chalk it up as being collateral damage of spreading the word? When someone employs you they entrust their livelihood to you, especially in the case of small businesses. It is NOT OK to mess with someone's livelihood, ever.

th1bill
Jan 31st 2008, 10:04 PM
I was just thinking about this topic and have another way for you to look at it. Suppose you witness without restraint at your job and people stop patronizing where you work because they do not want to be "preached to." Sales are down, hours are cut and your boss (who may have their entire life and livelihood tied up in this endeavor) has to close the doors and claim bankruptcy. Do you feel guilty at all that you caused it or do you just chalk it up as being collateral damage of spreading the word? When someone employs you they entrust their livelihood to you, especially in the case of small businesses. It is NOT OK to mess with someone's livelihood, ever.
.. I do not mean to sound sanctamonious but it will. I am very sorry that you do not seem to trust God to lead your entire life, He will and He has done so since the day I trusted Him. In allowing God complete command I do my very best to never fail to speak when the Spirit of God prods me to do so. That you are saved, I do not, for a moment dispute but it comes down to a parallel that I've often seen drawn out.
.. Often folks will ask, "Do I tithe on the gross, before taxes, or on the net?" The Biblically correct answer is another question, "What kind of a blessing do you want, a gross blessing or a net blessing?" You see, for us to argue this point is a fool's folly. If you choose a lessor blessing who am I to condemn you for your choice? Inversely, who are you to condemn those of us that want God to fulfill His promise to pour out a blessing we cannot contain for our faithfulness? You see, there really is no conflict, just different approaches to ministering for God.
.. You don't suppose that when John the Baptist appeared out of the wilderness dressed in the skin of an animal and eating Grasshoppers and Honey that he was considered a little strange, do you? I pray that we can agree to disagree and remain members of the same Army, just in different Battalions. God bless.

renthead188
Jan 31st 2008, 10:40 PM
I was just thinking about this topic and have another way for you to look at it. Suppose you witness without restraint at your job and people stop patronizing where you work because they do not want to be "preached to." Sales are down, hours are cut and your boss (who may have their entire life and livelihood tied up in this endeavor) has to close the doors and claim bankruptcy. Do you feel guilty at all that you caused it or do you just chalk it up as being collateral damage of spreading the word? When someone employs you they entrust their livelihood to you, especially in the case of small businesses. It is NOT OK to mess with someone's livelihood, ever.

I would like to start out by saying that I really DO appreciate your concern. If I were in a situation like you described, I confess that I might not know what to do. If I had been spoken to by The Spirit in THAT situation, it might be a bit more difficult for me to be able to witness.

The fact of the matter is, though, that I KNOW that this is God.

At work, I am frequently approached by both athiests and thiests that question my sudden/recent conversion. I get paid a wage that doesn't even meet the living wage. I am blessed to live in my parents home and attend full time college as a result of their funding. I work in this cafe to earn money for car insurance, gas and misc. expenses like notebooks or car repairs. If I get fired for preaching the gospel, I can and will find another job. This does not mean, however, that I scream "Jesus saves! Repent SINNER!" at the top of my lungs, but that I love them as Jesus does. It also means, that when The Spirit nudges me, I say "yes" to Him. As a new believer, I am fortunate (praise GOD) to be in this situation, in which the only effects of losing my job, would be that I would have to find another one. I do not believe that I would be put in this situation, unless it is of God's will.

"You guide me along the right path for the sake of your name." Psalm 23:3

Furthermore I believe that I have been placed here for a purpose. I believe that God, in His infinite wisdom, has placed me here for HIS purpose.

Consider this passage concerning the parable of the sower, in the beginning The Gospel of Luke Chapter 8

"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God." Luke 8:11

In verses twelve and thirteen we see what happens with some other people, but then in verse fourteen we find...

"Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity."No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light." Luke 8:14-16

My purpose is allow His light to shine through me. To do that, I submit to His will.

My assurance of this comes, not from a Pastor, but from The Word of God.

"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundred-fold and inherit eternal life." Matthew 18:33

further more....

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels." Matthew 9:26



May The Lord bless you.

Christopher

Raindrops_On_Roses
Jan 31st 2008, 11:22 PM
My name is Christopher and I live on Long Island. I came to faith this past October. The Lord has done ALOT in my life since then. I live at home and am currently working towards my bachelor's in psychology. I work evenings in a cafe in a small suburban village.

One of our customers, Mark, comes in regularly each Monday. Two weeks ago I asked a friend about him. They told me that he taught a class on "Angelic Hierarchy". The following Monday I started a conversation with him in which he volunteered this information. I asked him to expand on this and he directed me to a website. He also said "Yup, Angels aren't just for Christians any more! I thought I would point that out." It was at this point that I knew something was up. He told me that his classes were taught at "The Silver Broom" which affirmed my suspicions.

The next Monday (earlier this evening) he came to the cafe again. He told me that he needed to get some espresso before his class. Again he told me about the website saying "I think you'll be interested". This time he affirmed that he does in fact practice Wicca. *Again he volunteered all information* He also told me that tonight was to be the first of a 13 week program on witchcraft. He also mentioned that he would be returning to the store before every class. A quick look at the website (I didn't want to see anymore than the first page) showed me his picture and the title "Rev. Mark" underneath.

He seems very personable and friendly. He, also, seems very respectful. I was wondering if anyone has any advice as to how I could plant a seed over these next twelve weeks?

I want to ask questions such as "Do you believe in God?" or "Where do you believe that this 'power' comes from?" but to be honest, each time I have mentioned God (specifically Christ) to a Wiccan they have not reacted well at all. I realize that this may in fact be the fulfillment of "The devil and his demons tremble at His Name" Maybe I could ask "From where do you derive your authority to teach of The Angels?" I'm not really worried about his immediate ANSWERS to these questions, but rather that he ponders them himself, later.

I work every Monday Evening. His classes are Monday Nights. He drinks espresso before each class. Our shops are three doors away from each other.

Please pray for Mark. Please pray for me. Please leave some advice. Please watch this thread for any developments.

thank you

May The Lord bless you!

Christopher

[[ From my experience of meeting friends who are wiccan: ]]
1.First understand the religion. Nothing is more offensive to someone than trying to change them without understand what they believe.
So I'd look up information on wicca and all that. It's not just witchcraft. In fact, not all wiccans perform witchcraft. They just believe in luck, the same thing as when you were little and picked four-leaf clovers, or carried around a fake rabbits foot on your keychain. Some just choose to take it more extreme and carve words/spells into candles and such, which can look like witchcraft.

2. Don't bring it up too much. And drop the subject if they get uncomfortable or angry, or offended. Nothing pushes people like that away from Jesus more, than getting it shoved down their throats everytime they go to talk to somebody.

3. Try not to show them the light of God through words, but rather through actions. Don't show your bad side to this person. Whenever you're around them, tell them that you're happy and all that, or some other good things.

4. If they don't seem offended then go ahead and ask them if they've ever thought about getting saved by Christ, because he is the only true way to Heaven. Before you say this though, let them know that you're serious and you won't get mad if they don't accept.
When you ask them about the lord and tell them he's the only way to Heaven, then you've planted the seed, now you just have to let God take control.

5. But it doesn't hurt to invite them to your church either. Once again, don't be critical, tell them you respect them for being who they are, but you'd just like to see how they feel about the service.

daughter
Jan 31st 2008, 11:38 PM
Hey Raindrops on Roses (what a beautiful name by the way...)

From my experience of having been a witch, you have been somewhat deceived in your description of what a wiccan is. You are describing a certain kind of very fluffy pagan... but not an actual wiccan.

A wiccan worships a goddess and god (usually, some choose just the godess, others... mainly in male homosexual covens, worship just a god, typically cernunos or pan, while a lot of feminist witches worship just the godess.) The religion does involve the actual worship of demons, although most witches will believe them to be dieties.

A wiccan will perform regular rituals in which they "draw down the moon", "raise energy", "summon the quarters/guardians of the watch towers/angels/nature spirits/elements..." (in other words, demons.)

There is a great deal of leaway allowed for how a witch will perform these rituals, but basically they all involve worshipping demons.

The idea that it's just harmless superstition and carving symbols on candles etc, or a vague belief in a "life force" is propoganda put out by witches to soothe other people's fears.

Believe me, I'm not making this up, I was a witch for over ten years, and involved in the occult since childhood. If a Christian talks to a witch without knowing what he or she is up against, the witch will despise their ignorance... and more importantly, the demons he or she serves will not be challenged. How can you stand against forces that you don't know are there?

Witches do not fly on broomsticks, they do not (most of them anyway) sacrifice children or animals... but they do serve satan. It wasn't till I was saved that I realised what I'd been involved in... and believe me, it wasn't pretty to realise that the "angels" and "spirits" were in fact demons, the dreams and visions were lies, and that but for Christ I would have ended up in hell.

I<3Jesus
Feb 1st 2008, 01:04 AM
.. I do not mean to sound sanctamonious but it will. I am very sorry that you do not seem to trust God to lead your entire life

I am not sure how you gleamed that from my posts, but OK. That is not at all how I feel. I just think that people need to think things through thoroughly before making decisions that not only effect them, but the people who trusted them to do a job. You do not get paid to preach, period. You are paid to do a job.

Raindrops_On_Roses
Feb 1st 2008, 01:24 AM
Hey Raindrops on Roses (what a beautiful name by the way...)

From my experience of having been a witch, you have been somewhat deceived in your description of what a wiccan is. You are describing a certain kind of very fluffy pagan... but not an actual wiccan.

A wiccan worships a goddess and god (usually, some choose just the godess, others... mainly in male homosexual covens, worship just a god, typically cernunos or pan, while a lot of feminist witches worship just the godess.) The religion does involve the actual worship of demons, although most witches will believe them to be dieties.

A wiccan will perform regular rituals in which they "draw down the moon", "raise energy", "summon the quarters/guardians of the watch towers/angels/nature spirits/elements..." (in other words, demons.)

There is a great deal of leaway allowed for how a witch will perform these rituals, but basically they all involve worshipping demons.

The idea that it's just harmless superstition and carving symbols on candles etc, or a vague belief in a "life force" is propoganda put out by witches to soothe other people's fears.

Believe me, I'm not making this up, I was a witch for over ten years, and involved in the occult since childhood. If a Christian talks to a witch without knowing what he or she is up against, the witch will despise their ignorance... and more importantly, the demons he or she serves will not be challenged. How can you stand against forces that you don't know are there?

Witches do not fly on broomsticks, they do not (most of them anyway) sacrifice children or animals... but they do serve satan. It wasn't till I was saved that I realised what I'd been involved in... and believe me, it wasn't pretty to realise that the "angels" and "spirits" were in fact demons, the dreams and visions were lies, and that but for Christ I would have ended up in hell.

I know most of that stuff.
I just know very few who do full-fledged rituals or whatever. Like my friend's mom is wiccan and she does all that stuff but her daughter was too for awhile but she only did things like put certain coins on a necklace, bury certain things in certain areas, etc..

daughter
Feb 1st 2008, 01:25 AM
What is most important to remember is this. Nobody is judged by what somebody else's pastor says, some other expert says. If you are working in a coffee shop, a cafe, or whatever... and the Holy Spirit (God, remember) impresses on us that we need to witness to a certain person...

Who should we obey? Our earthly employers, or the Spirit of God?

Not one of us is ever judged by what another person's conscience tells us. My conscience causes me maximum social embarassment at times! It tells me to stand in the cold rain outside a shop and talk to someone about Christ, even though the shop is going to shut and I won't be able to put electricity on my meter if I don't hurry up. Should I turn my back on the person I'm speaking to about Christ, and buy my electricity? That's what I wanted to do within the last three days.

Or should I stand in rain that's not quite cold enough for sleet, with my fingers shoved into my armpits for warmth, and talk to a guy that I'll not meet again this side of heaven... and pray God He attains heaven... about Jesus, and how much I love Him, and what He's done for me, instead?

Okay, so in the end I got my electricity before it ran out. But I didn't know that when I spoke to Grant.

I don't know that Grant will become a Christian.

But I do know that he cried when I told him what Christ had done for me, and my husband.

If he rejects me, his blood is not on my hands. But if he accepts the fact that he needs Christ... oh my wonderful God... is that not worth cold fingers? If I KNEW that one soul was in heaven, wouldn't I happily lose a finger or a thumb, or a hand for them?

And yet we're scared to lose our jobs?

There are times when we've got to keep quiet. I've had to do so myself... but in the end I had to profess Christ... whether I wanted to or not.

Because I am judged by how I stand with Christ... not by anyone else. It is my conscience by which I'm judged, not that of someone else's pastor.

daughter
Feb 1st 2008, 01:43 AM
I know most of that stuff.
I just know very few who do full-fledged rituals or whatever. Like my friend's mom is wiccan and she does all that stuff but her daughter was too for awhile but she only did things like put certain coins on a necklace, bury certain things in certain areas, etc..
The daughter is not wiccan then... she's pagan. What does the daughter do now?

When I was a witch I knew folks who had been raised wiccan, but didn't have the discipline or selfish desire to maintain it. I still thought of them as witches manquee... and so would any other practising witch. They are still under the thrall of the demons they serve. Just for whatever reason they are manquee... failed.

Your friend, does she believe in the four guardians of the "watchtowers/quarters/elements" etc? I presume so, if she was raised with this stuff. She may not raise these beings, but someone (presumably her Mom) does. And believing, or confessing, is the same as summoning. A lazy witch is still a witch. Just because she doesn't go in for the full ritual, doesn't mean she's not a witch, doesn't mean she's not in a whole heap of trouble.

I've got a lot of experience on this.

(Can you all pray for Alice by the way. She just came to mind, a "Queen" of witches when I was first involved... she was elderly... she can't be that far from hell, unless she's saved. And save a miracle... please pray for it... she can't be that far from hell.)

Okay, so it sounds like your friends Mom is a witch, your friend may as well be... she just can't be bothered with the whole paraphernalia.

Your friend needs your prayer, your sense of urgency... and if she needs to speak to someone who knows EXACTLY what she's going through... put her in touch with me.

If you've never been in the occult yourself, you don't know what it's like. Even as a "harm none do as you will" fluffy pagan, your friend will still hear voices, know things she wishes she didn't, and have problems that she is scared to share with someone who hasn't shared that background.

th1bill
Feb 1st 2008, 02:36 AM
Alice is and is being prayed for.

Raindrops_On_Roses
Feb 1st 2008, 02:40 AM
The daughter is not wiccan then... she's pagan. What does the daughter do now?

When I was a witch I knew folks who had been raised wiccan, but didn't have the discipline or selfish desire to maintain it. I still thought of them as witches manquee... and so would any other practising witch. They are still under the thrall of the demons they serve. Just for whatever reason they are manquee... failed.

Your friend, does she believe in the four guardians of the "watchtowers/quarters/elements" etc? I presume so, if she was raised with this stuff. She may not raise these beings, but someone (presumably her Mom) does. And believing, or confessing, is the same as summoning. A lazy witch is still a witch. Just because she doesn't go in for the full ritual, doesn't mean she's not a witch, doesn't mean she's not in a whole heap of trouble.

I've got a lot of experience on this.

(Can you all pray for Alice by the way. She just came to mind, a "Queen" of witches when I was first involved... she was elderly... she can't be that far from hell, unless she's saved. And save a miracle... please pray for it... she can't be that far from hell.)

Okay, so it sounds like your friends Mom is a witch, your friend may as well be... she just can't be bothered with the whole paraphernalia.

Your friend needs your prayer, your sense of urgency... and if she needs to speak to someone who knows EXACTLY what she's going through... put her in touch with me.

If you've never been in the occult yourself, you don't know what it's like. Even as a "harm none do as you will" fluffy pagan, your friend will still hear voices, know things she wishes she didn't, and have problems that she is scared to share with someone who hasn't shared that background.

When I was in middle school I tried to be pagan and christian at the same time. DIDN'T WORK OUT. Haha... she stopped believing in it now, now she's just agnostic. Her mom still does the whole ritual stuff. But her mom's like insane crazy psycho (literally) so... yeah. Her mom hates any religion with a passion. (Except wicca of course)

And I'll pray for Alice :)

daughter
Feb 1st 2008, 02:55 AM
Thank you, Bill and Raindrops on Roses, for praying for Alice.

I'm waiting to hear from someone who knows about her ... I'll tell you when they get back.

ROR... one of the earliest temptations I had as a new Christian (and Bill will probably remember this, he helped me through it) was to be both a Christian and a witch. Three days in, I had the whole, "you can be Christo wiccan" malarkey...

You know what kills that one stone dead... the Bible!!! And yet I had the whole "Bible was written in a different historical context..." "spiritual manifestos for different eras..." "the holy spirit is sophia, godess of wisdom... you can worship her..." thing.

Seriously, the only way past this mumbo jumbo was to read the bible. And Bill helped me find the texts I needed to keep me grounded.

In the mean time... you say about your friend's Mom, she's "crazy psycho..."

That's fairly typical. Don't despise her for it, it's what wicca does to people. You start off fairly sane, able to function, and you gradually lose contact with reality. The hospitals are full of folks who were into the occult and lost track of reality. Pray for her, and for her child, your friend... and remember, greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. Her demons may drive her mad (mine were beginning to do that to me) but God can and will heal her. I promise you... I know that because God says so. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. All she needs to do is call on the name of Jesus.

renthead188
Feb 1st 2008, 05:52 AM
Thank you all for your support. I have spoken with some friends as well as members of this board. I also spoke to my girlfriend. In years past she had been involved in demonic activity. I don't think that she would have called herself a 'witch' but she definetely fit the profile of a Wiccan. She filled me in on some chilling experiences that I would rather not have to think about her going through... never the less I feel that I have been given a better understanding of what Wicca is and how best to approach a Wiccan.

I would like to propose a question to anyone that has been viewing this thread.

Ultimately, past EVERYTHING that we know... the PROBLEM that lies within wicca is that the pursuit is of POWER and not GOD, right? It is entirely possibly that I may have missed something and I invite anyone who may know anything further to enlighten me.

Sing for the Glory of The King

Christopher

Mograce2U
Feb 1st 2008, 03:02 PM
Thank you all for your support. I have spoken with some friends as well as members of this board. I also spoke to my girlfriend. In years past she had been involved in demonic activity. I don't think that she would have called herself a 'witch' but she definetely fit the profile of a Wiccan. She filled me in on some chilling experiences that I would rather not have to think about her going through... never the less I feel that I have been given a better understanding of what Wicca is and how best to approach a Wiccan.

I would like to propose a question to anyone that has been viewing this thread.

Ultimately, past EVERYTHING that we know... the PROBLEM that lies within wicca is that the pursuit is of POWER and not GOD, right? It is entirely possibly that I may have missed something and I invite anyone who may know anything further to enlighten me.

Sing for the Glory of The King

ChristopherAbsolute power corrupts absolutely! Who said that?

Power, fame, glory - these are the common pursuits of man, and how the devil gains a foothold in their lives to make them willing slaves to him. Ultimately who you must deal with is the demon that has seduced him. Which is why in Mark 9 we have an example from Jesus of how this is to be done. The key He reveals is that prayer and fasting is required on our part - this is to prepare us by bringing us into the faith we need to stand against the wiles of the devil. Then the weapons we have been given will operate in the power of God thru us.

(2 Cor 10:3-5 KJV) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: {4} (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) {5} Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

This is as much instruction for us as for the one who has been deluded by the devil.

Paul's hardships which he endured as a minister of the things of God give us an example of the perseverance we must pursue:

(2 Cor 6:3-10 KJV) Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: {4} But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, {5} In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; {6} By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, {7} By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, {8} By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; {9} As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; {10} As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

See Eph 6 for the description of what this armour is that we have been given to overcome the devil in any situation. The power of God is no match for him!

proverbs29
Feb 1st 2008, 03:45 PM
Thomas Merton who said, "Always preach the Gospel, sometimes use words."

Remember that your testimony and the presentation of your character is only minimally about what you say.

As a person who has a lot of experience dealing with reaching pagans (my husband is a born again former wiccan).... my suggestion is to focus on praying for God to touch and reach the persons heart, and to give him a thirst for what you have in Christ. Spend more of your time and energy focused on communicating with God about him than with him about God. God will use you to do His Will. You can develop a relationship with this person over time and trust the work that God is doing in this mans heart. Plant seeds and be patient for the harvest.

I tend to share what Christ has done and is doing in my life as a part of conversation, rather than as a part of a conversion attempt. Sharing what I have means more to someone than trying to sell them something. It inspires them to want to know more... Pray for Gods timing, and for yourself to have the wisdom to know the words when the mans heart is ready.

Prayerfully,
~Sarai

proverbs29
Feb 1st 2008, 04:11 PM
the PROBLEM that lies within wicca is that the pursuit is of POWER and not GOD, right?

Well aside from the obvious problem of wiccans not knowing Christ... ;)

I don't think its fair to say that wicca is the pursuit of power rather than God. One incidious aspect of wicca is that it is defined on a very personal level... so what might be one persons pursuit via wicca might be totally contrary to another persons wiccan pursuit.

Many people feel drawn to wicca, I believe, because they can relate to the duality of the masculine/feminine God/goddess concept.... and because they have an interest in returning to "mother earth" especially because of increased concern for the environment which threatens their sense of security on the earth. They do not know (nor do many Christians seem to regard) that we are called to be stewards of the earth. They also don't understand what God has told us through his word about the "god of this world" and how this connects to earth based religions and the harnessing of such "power." I think that many of these people are very well intentioned in their desire to do good work via wicca.

Many wiccans are not evil people. (Not assuming that anyone implied such...) Ephesians 6:12 just echoes in my mind when I approach this topic. I know several Christians who live in little Christian bubbles and judge pagans as if they were the devil himself.

In Him,
Sarai.

I<3Jesus
Feb 1st 2008, 05:17 PM
Thomas Merton who said, "Always preach the Gospel, sometimes use words."

Remember that your testimony and the presentation of your character is only minimally about what you say.

As a person who has a lot of experience dealing with reaching pagans (my husband is a born again former wiccan).... my suggestion is to focus on praying for God to touch and reach the persons heart, and to give him a thirst for what you have in Christ. Spend more of your time and energy focused on communicating with God about him than with him about God. God will use you to do His Will. You can develop a relationship with this person over time and trust the work that God is doing in this mans heart. Plant seeds and be patient for the harvest.

I tend to share what Christ has done and is doing in my life as a part of conversation, rather than as a part of a conversion attempt. Sharing what I have means more to someone than trying to sell them something. It inspires them to want to know more... Pray for Gods timing, and for yourself to have the wisdom to know the words when the mans heart is ready.

Prayerfully,
~Sarai

You are getting reps from me, excellent post! I love the Merton quote, it is perfect.

renthead188
Feb 1st 2008, 06:51 PM
Well aside from the obvious problem of wiccans not knowing Christ... ;)

I don't think its fair to say that wicca is the pursuit of power rather than God. One incidious aspect of wicca is that it is defined on a very personal level... so what might be one persons pursuit via wicca might be totally contrary to another persons wiccan pursuit.

Many people feel drawn to wicca, I believe, because they can relate to the duality of the masculine/feminine God/goddess concept.... and because they have an interest in returning to "mother earth" especially because of increased concern for the environment which threatens their sense of security on the earth. They do not know (nor do many Christians seem to regard) that we are called to be stewards of the earth. They also don't understand what God has told us through his word about the "god of this world" and how this connects to earth based religions and the harnessing of such "power." I think that many of these people are very well intentioned in their desire to do good work via wicca.

Many wiccans are not evil people. (Not assuming that anyone implied such...) Ephesians 6:12 just echoes in my mind when I approach this topic. I know several Christians who live in little Christian bubbles and judge pagans as if they were the devil himself.

In Him,
Sarai.

Exactly. They are not in pursuit of Christ, who IS GOD and although their WORKS (carings for the planet or using "helpful" incantations) may be understood to be "good" they are in fact being deceived. We are told that satan and his demons can in fact disguise themselves as angels of light. Is this not what occurs when a wiccan prays to/calls upon/ summons what they refer to as a god/goddess ? I am not denying that they have tapped into some sort of spiritual power, I am saying that the POWER does not come from GOD.

with love

Christopher

renthead188
Feb 1st 2008, 06:57 PM
Absolute power corrupts absolutely! Who said that?

Power, fame, glory - these are the common pursuits of man, and how the devil gains a foothold in their lives to make them willing slaves to him. Ultimately who you must deal with is the demon that has seduced him. Which is why in Mark 9 we have an example from Jesus of how this is to be done. The key He reveals is that prayer and fasting is required on our part - this is to prepare us by bringing us into the faith we need to stand against the wiles of the devil. Then the weapons we have been given will operate in the power of God thru us.

(2 Cor 10:3-5 KJV) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: {4} (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) {5} Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

This is as much instruction for us as for the one who has been deluded by the devil.

Paul's hardships which he endured as a minister of the things of God give us an example of the perseverance we must pursue:

(2 Cor 6:3-10 KJV) Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: {4} But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, {5} In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; {6} By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, {7} By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, {8} By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; {9} As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; {10} As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

See Eph 6 for the description of what this armour is that we have been given to overcome the devil in any situation. The power of God is no match for him!

Thank you. It is important to rememeber that the only true path to salvation is through HIM. Athough we may like to run around screaming "Jesus Saves!" It is, in fact, much more fruitful to trust in His power and strength. Prayer and Fasting are two excellent practices. I find that the blessing that always follows is that I am more capable of recognizing and saying "yes" to God's will, because the focus is on HIM.

Pray for Mark.

Christopher

http://bibleforums.org/images/misc/progress.gif

renthead188
Feb 1st 2008, 07:00 PM
You are getting reps from me, excellent post! I love the Merton quote, it is perfect.

I am curious, who is Thomas Merton?

I<3Jesus
Feb 1st 2008, 08:17 PM
I am curious, who is Thomas Merton?

Google is your friend ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Merton

renthead188
Feb 1st 2008, 08:35 PM
Google is your friend ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Merton

Thank you!

Also, to anyone reading this thread. I am about to go to work. It's not a Monday but it is ENTIRELY possible that I could run into him there this evening. I know that he lives near the shop. Please pray that his heart will open and for mine to remain open to the direction of The Holy Spirit.

with love

Christopher

I<3Jesus
Feb 8th 2008, 05:38 PM
I am revisiting this thread because someone close to me read this and was very disappointed in what I had to say. I listened intently to why they were disappointed and I will be praying about this. I just wanted to say that I understand both sides now and I am sorry if I upset anyone with my comments.

revrock
Feb 9th 2008, 01:57 AM
I'm a little scared that you are such a new Christian. I understand your zeal, been there. Remember you are dealing with the occult. Make sure you're spiritually prepared. Have a very close group of elders or deacons at your side praying for you. This person seems to have a lot at stake, his reputation, his career, etc. He is proseltyzing you also. Just do what you're doing and let him get curious about your life. If God has brought you two together for a reason, then God will work it out.

renthead188
Feb 9th 2008, 05:10 AM
I wanted to say thanks for your concern. The last time Mark came into the shop, he was skiddish and quickly left (although it was well before his class was scheduled to start) whereas he usually would chat for a bit. To my recollection I cannot think of anything that I said that would have offended him other than "God bless!" after I had said "Goodbye" the last time. He has also stopped coming in as often.

Maybe that was all that I was supposed to do? I don't feel the heavy need to pray for him that I once did... I still do sometimes but it's not every day right now.

I don't think that it's "newchristiansavetheworld syndrome" but then again... if it WERE... than I wouldn't know it, would I...

thoughts?

*really - thanks guys :) *

Duane Morse
Feb 9th 2008, 05:15 AM
I wanted to say thanks for your concern. The last time Mark came into the shop, he was skiddish and quickly left (although it was well before his class was scheduled to start) whereas he usually would chat for a bit. To my recollection I cannot think of anything that I said that would have offended him other than "God bless!" after I had said "Goodbye" the last time. He has also stopped coming in as often.

Maybe that was all that I was supposed to do? I don't feel the heavy need to pray for him that I once did... I still do sometimes but it's not every day right now.

I don't think that it's "newchristiansavetheworld syndrome" but then again... if it WERE... than I wouldn't know it, would I...

thoughts?

*really - thanks guys :) *
His reaction might indicate a little conviction on the part of the Holy Spirit.
He may be feeling a bit uneasy because he is starting to doubt his own beliefs.


I would not push him at this point. Let the Holy Spirit work, and he may come to you with more questions.

revrock
Feb 9th 2008, 01:24 PM
I agree with Duane. Just be there in love for him. You did well. Ball is in his court.

Mograce2U
Feb 9th 2008, 06:23 PM
I wanted to say thanks for your concern. The last time Mark came into the shop, he was skiddish and quickly left (although it was well before his class was scheduled to start) whereas he usually would chat for a bit. To my recollection I cannot think of anything that I said that would have offended him other than "God bless!" after I had said "Goodbye" the last time. He has also stopped coming in as often.

Maybe that was all that I was supposed to do? I don't feel the heavy need to pray for him that I once did... I still do sometimes but it's not every day right now.

I don't think that it's "newchristiansavetheworld syndrome" but then again... if it WERE... than I wouldn't know it, would I...

thoughts?

*really - thanks guys :) *My thoughts are that God is answering your prayers. The unbeliever is emboldened by his sin because he is deceived and blinded by it. Opening his eyes to his sin is something the Holy Spirit excels at. Which is no doubt why you sensed his skittishness the other day. The demonic spirit that has seduced him may be losing his hold over him if the man begins to think about what he is doing is wrong. This is the marvelous thing about prayer that we have been given which is that we can leave this work in the Lord's hands, while we just be ourselves in Christ. You can pray in heart and talk with him should he come back. But I don't think you need to worry beforehand what you will say to "convince" him of his error. The Lord will use you nonetheless.

BTW, great name Christopher - I named my son that and have hope that some day he will live up to it and become a follower of Christ too.

aliveinchrist
Feb 11th 2008, 02:57 AM
I am revisiting this thread because someone close to me read this and was very disappointed in what I had to say. I listened intently to why they were disappointed and I will be praying about this. I just wanted to say that I understand both sides now and I am sorry if I upset anyone with my comments.

Hi. You're forgiven.

But I did want to say one thing, to you, and to a few others on here about witnessing.

Yes, we are supposed to witness to others by how we act. That is THE #1 way. No doubt. But, there are times Jesus calls us to speak to other people. And we SHOULD do so when and where we are called to do it.

You can't put what men want, over what Jesus wants. In this case, the job. If Jesus wants you to speak, do you think He will let you lose your job? No. Jesus will take care of you. Trust Him to lead your life and trust Him to lead your speech when He does call you to speak to others. And if you do lose your job? Trust Jesus to provide you another one. And He will. Leave your life in His hands and He WILL provide for you.

Losing a job is TRIVIAL, compared to doing Jesus' work.

I<3Jesus
Feb 12th 2008, 04:06 PM
Hi. You're forgiven.

Ummmm, thanks? Color me confuzzled, but I thought only God had that power ;)


But I did want to say one thing, to you, and to a few others on here about witnessing.

Yes, we are supposed to witness to others by how we act. That is THE #1 way. No doubt. But, there are times Jesus calls us to speak to other people. And we SHOULD do so when and where we are called to do it.

You can't put what men want, over what Jesus wants. In this case, the job. If Jesus wants you to speak, do you think He will let you lose your job? No. Jesus will take care of you. Trust Him to lead your life and trust Him to lead your speech when He does call you to speak to others. And if you do lose your job? Trust Jesus to provide you another one. And He will. Leave your life in His hands and He WILL provide for you.

Losing a job is TRIVIAL, compared to doing Jesus' work.

I look around and I see a great number of people committing atrocities in Jesus' name. That doesn't make them right. I see what you are saying and my Mom had a similar point, but there are a great number of people who do awful things because they think that is what Jesus would do. Just saying...

aliveinchrist
Feb 12th 2008, 04:29 PM
Ummmm, thanks? Color me confuzzled, but I thought only God had that power ;)

We are supposed to forgive others like Jesus forgave us.



I look around and I see a great number of people committing atrocities in Jesus' name. That doesn't make them right. I see what you are saying and my Mom had a similar point, but there are a great number of people who do awful things because they think that is what Jesus would do. Just saying...

If it is an atrocity, then Jesus wouldn't do it, now would He?

People can claim or say "but I'm doing it because JESUS would do it!"

But, if it is something NOT good, or an "atrocity", Jesus would not do it. Why would He? Jesus is love, compassion, caring, forgiveness, joy, etc, so why would He do something that He is against?

Jesus' work is helping other people. Serving others before ourselves. (To sum it up)

I<3Jesus
Feb 12th 2008, 05:39 PM
If it is an atrocity, then Jesus wouldn't do it, now would He?

People can claim or say "but I'm doing it because JESUS would do it!"

But, if it is something NOT good, or an "atrocity", Jesus would not do it. Why would He? Jesus is love, compassion, caring, forgiveness, joy, etc, so why would He do something that He is against?

Jesus' work is helping other people. Serving others before ourselves. (To sum it up)

Clearly, but there are hundreds (if not thousands) of religious fundamentalists who think they are doing the right thing when they are not. My point is that you have to be careful when you think you are doing something to represent Christ. How many times did Jesus rebuke the disciples for being too big in the britches? Just because you think something is Christ-like does not necessarily mean it is.

Edited to add: I did nothing to you to need your forgiveness. It is a little presumptuous of you.

aliveinchrist
Feb 12th 2008, 05:48 PM
Clearly, but there are hundreds (if not thousands) of religious fundamentalists who think they are doing the right thing when they are not. My point is that you have to be careful when you think you are doing something to represent Christ. How many times did Jesus rebuke the disciples for being too big in the britches? Just because you think something is Christ-like does not necessarily mean it is.

Edited to add: I did nothing to you to need your forgiveness. It is a little presumptuous of you.

Hmmm, I'll quote you "I just wanted to say that I understand both sides now and I am sorry if I upset anyone with my comments."

I said I forgive you, because you did kind of upset me. Not a lot, just a little.

In answer to your above post, no it doesn't necessarily mean it is. Which is why people need to read the Bible and listen to Jesus talking to their heart. Only Jesus knows the heart.

I think it's pretty presumputious for you to tell the OP NOT to witness at work, when clearly he feels compelled the Holy Spirit, that he NEEDS to witness exactly where he's at.

That's all I was saying.

I<3Jesus
Feb 12th 2008, 05:55 PM
Hmmm, I'll quote you "I just wanted to say that I understand both sides now and I am sorry if I upset anyone with my comments."

I said I forgive you, because you did kind of upset me. Not a lot, just a little.

In answer to your above post, no it doesn't necessarily mean it is. Which is why people need to read the Bible and listen to Jesus talking to their heart. Only Jesus knows the heart.

I think it's pretty presumputious for you to tell the OP NOT to witness at work, when clearly he feels compelled the Holy Spirit, that he NEEDS to witness exactly where he's at.

That's all I was saying.

He asked for opinions on a public message board. I have said it before and I will say it again, if you do not want opinions or advice (from both sides) then do not post on a public message board. Get a blog and password protect it, so only like minded people can reply or turn comments off. You cannot expect everyone to look at things the same way.

For the record my apology was directed toward the OP and the person who contacted me. The fact that you just stumbled into the thread and offered to forgive me read like the internet equivalent of having someone come up and smack you in the forehead while screaming Jesus forgives you.

aliveinchrist
Feb 12th 2008, 06:01 PM
Well, you did say "upset anyone", not upset YOU or the OP. I'm sorry for misunderstanding what you wrote.

I<3Jesus
Feb 12th 2008, 06:26 PM
Well I apologize then, it just read as a little self righteous. It is hard to infer tone based on posts. I couldn't fathom why you wrote it, but now I understand.

angelus5370
Feb 12th 2008, 08:17 PM
I have a story.........I worked at a Catholic Facility as a Charge Nurse on 3-11, and the building was very wicked, people back stabbing, and using manipulation to get their own way, but in the center of all that were two Christians who were very quiet, and hid their faith from others. When I got there I practicly yelled from the roof tops, "Im A CHRISTIAN" and would discuss prophesy and the Bible at break outside with the staff. Some would listen intently and ask questions, but there were a few who had me pulled into the office and written up for, "PREACHING RELIGION!" When I came infront of my supervisor my first action was to tell her thank you! Of-course, she didn't understand, but I knew that Christians are persecuted everyday for being faithful to God, and following His Son. But, I saw it as a compliment. It did not stop me from continuing, or reading my Bible at break time, it just pushed me to work harder, and the building began to change. The staff no longer said curses or vuglar jokes or words in front of me, and if they slipped, they would put their hand over their mouths and say, SORRY! You could see their was a different aura in that place, and the two quiet Christians were quiet no longer, and even started to talk to people, although they said they could never witness, I told them, my friends, you already are..........because they were discussing God, the Bible, and Prophesy at break. We did no harm, we spoke to people on break, we followed what the Holy Spirit led us to do, and yes we got persecuted, but it didn't matter, because God watched out for us. Were we fired no, but even if I were, I had the trust in God that He would find me another place to go.
My point is God watches out for us. We cannot be afraid of anything in this world, because it shows that our faith in God's promises is weak. Between the 3 of us, we may only have brought 1 person to Christ thru the Holy Spirit, but it makes you feel good to know that one more person has found salvation. Is the building still wicked, of-course, but the nurses who were silent will not be silent any longer........I was written up twice for preaching Religion, and I told my supervisor, "How can I be written up for preaching Religion, when following Christ is not a religion, it's a way of life."
We need to be good to each other, when there are christians gathered together, it is supposed to be strenght in numbers, so we need to respect our brothers and sisters, be sensitive to their beliefs and opinions, and not attack each other, because satan loves when we attack each other, and we want to do what God commands us to do not satan...........:pray:

renthead188
Feb 12th 2008, 10:07 PM
I have a story.........I worked at a Catholic Facility as a Charge Nurse on 3-11, and the building was very wicked, people back stabbing, and using manipulation to get their own way, but in the center of all that were two Christians who were very quiet, and hid their faith from others. When I got there I practicly yelled from the roof tops, "Im A CHRISTIAN" and would discuss prophesy and the Bible at break outside with the staff. Some would listen intently and ask questions, but there were a few who had me pulled into the office and written up for, "PREACHING RELIGION!" When I came infront of my supervisor my first action was to tell her thank you! Of-course, she didn't understand, but I knew that Christians are persecuted everyday for being faithful to God, and following His Son. But, I saw it as a compliment. It did not stop me from continuing, or reading my Bible at break time, it just pushed me to work harder, and the building began to change. The staff no longer said curses or vuglar jokes or words in front of me, and if they slipped, they would put their hand over their mouths and say, SORRY! You could see their was a different aura in that place, and the two quiet Christians were quiet no longer, and even started to talk to people, although they said they could never witness, I told them, my friends, you already are..........because they were discussing God, the Bible, and Prophesy at break. We did no harm, we spoke to people on break, we followed what the Holy Spirit led us to do, and yes we got persecuted, but it didn't matter, because God watched out for us. Were we fired no, but even if I were, I had the trust in God that He would find me another place to go.
My point is God watches out for us. We cannot be afraid of anything in this world, because it shows that our faith in God's promises is weak. Between the 3 of us, we may only have brought 1 person to Christ thru the Holy Spirit, but it makes you feel good to know that one more person has found salvation. Is the building still wicked, of-course, but the nurses who were silent will not be silent any longer........I was written up twice for preaching Religion, and I told my supervisor, "How can I be written up for preaching Religion, when following Christ is not a religion, it's a way of life."
We need to be good to each other, when there are christians gathered together, it is supposed to be strenght in numbers, so we need to respect our brothers and sisters, be sensitive to their beliefs and opinions, and not attack each other, because satan loves when we attack each other, and we want to do what God commands us to do not satan...........:pray:

Angelus Thank you very much.

That was very encouraging. I want to take this time to say that I appreciate everyone's prayer and advice.

I<3Jesus I thank you for apologizing for your comment. I understand that it was well intentioned, and I also undertstand that is takes humility to admit when you may have been wrong. Thank you for doing that. As the OP I would like to say that I appreciate your advice and that I did consider it before I responded to any of the posts.

I have realized that the best way to witness to him may not be while I am serving coffee. I can just as easily begin to do some homework in the shop (it is a cafe after all) while I am off the clock. For instance, I wanted to speak to him this past Monday. He even sat down in the lobby for the first time (instead of just taking his coffee and leaving) but there was a line of customers and I couldn't very well leave and go sit with him. I am the supervisor so there wouldn't have been any disciplinary action involved - but it would be a bit hypocritical of me if I walked off the floor but expected my coworkers to do their duty. I don't know if I missed an opportunity or not, probably did, but I think that I will begin to study there and hope to bump into him. Do any of you think that I missed an opportunity? Or do you think I was justified in fulfilling my role? I was still able to speak with him, just not at length.

I would very much like to ask him why he believes that the spiritual powers that he contacts are gods. Also, I would like to find out, by what authority he speaks of angels.

I will update the thread as the situation unfolds. Please pray for Mark.

with love in Christ

Christopher

angelus5370
Feb 13th 2008, 06:36 PM
Chris,
It is well thought out, and sounds like you have a good plan........I'll pray for you and God bless.

Debbie

renthead188
Feb 13th 2008, 09:00 PM
Chris,
It is well thought out, and sounds like you have a good plan........I'll pray for you and God bless.

Debbie

Thank you Debbie

It is wonderful to hear of your support.

Thank you for your prayers - it seems that they are being answered.

with love in Christ

Christopher