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turtledove
Feb 1st 2008, 04:06 PM
:help:A friend recently recommended Joyce Meyer's book on the Battlefield of the Mind which I haven't read yet. Have you read it? What do you think?

w.o.o.

St_Michael
Feb 1st 2008, 04:20 PM
I would be very careful. Joyce Meyer is a nice person and I am sure she means well, but she is part of the Word of Faith movement.

It is a mix of new age, gnostic mysticism, and borrows heavily from the metaphysical cults. It also has roots in Christian Science.

If you would like more information, please PM me.

~Godbless


PS.... on the surface it really is not that bad, but the deeper you get into it the heresies become evident.

Frances
Feb 1st 2008, 05:46 PM
Well, the Christian's mind is certainly a battleground between good and Evil, and what I've heard of Joyce Meyer she doesn't usuallly pull any punches . . . so I'll be interested to know your opinion of the book.

menJesus
Feb 1st 2008, 08:13 PM
I have read it, but she has written other books that I liked much better.

She is candid, though, and has some very good points regarding our walk with God, and how to gain and keep the right mindset.

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 12:43 AM
I have read it and it's a great book. It deals with the mindsets of Christians and how to put your trust in the Lord in helping your thoughts in striving to have the mind of Christ, so to speak, and to avoid negative thinking which satan wants us to have etc. The devil does take over our minds more than we think. I read the book in 4 days, and she made some excellant points in this book. Course she says in the book that it won't happen over night that it is something that with the help of the Lord you can overcome your negative thinking etc.;)

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 12:47 AM
Hrmm... yep... Charismatic version of Dianetics. This is dangerous stuff wrapped in what seems to be Christianity.

Be careful what you read folks.

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 12:59 AM
Hrmm... yep... Charismatic version of Dianetics. This is dangerous stuff wrapped in what seems to be Christianity.

Be careful what you read folks.


Oh, well you know, Joyce has listed scriptures all through this book and they are the same scriptures that I have in my King James Version!

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:06 AM
I have pages and pages and pages of material on her.... ill just post one link... you will have to continue through by clicking next.... the link I provide here is a brief overview of her.. both good and not-so-good.

5 or 6 pages total. PM me for more resources on her and WoF.

Don't be Deceived Brothers and Sisters (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m26.html)

I wrote the link name... the resource is a real objective look as to what she is all about.

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:12 AM
Hrmm... yep... Charismatic version of Dianetics. This is dangerous stuff wrapped in what seems to be Christianity.

Be careful what you read folks.

Have you read this? Which parts do you disagree with?

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:19 AM
Have you read this? Which parts do you disagree with?

Very good question menJesus! I would like to know if St_Michael has read this book to. Like to old saying goes, don't judge a book by it's cover.;)

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:21 AM
Pretty much Meyer's take on the whole thing.. read response #5.. dangerous stuff.

Response #5 pretty much says it all. See my link above for additional information.

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:23 AM
Very good question menJesus! I would like to know if St_Michael has read this book to. Like to old saying goes, don't judge a book by it's cover.;)


Not only that one but several, as well as, listened to her cds. She is not a bad person, but she teaches a heretical brand of Christianity... the Word of Faith movement.

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:24 AM
Word-Faith Movement

Also known as "Name-in-Claim-it," "Health and Wealth Gospel," "Positive Confession," "Word of Faith," etc.

Word-Faith teachers owe their ancestry to groups like Christian Science, Swedenborgianism, Theosophy, Science of Mind, and New Thought--not to classical Pentecostalism (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/p00.html#pentecostalism). It reveals that at their very core, Word-Faith teachings are corrupt. Their undeniable derivation is cultish, not Christian. The sad truth is that the gospel proclaimed by the Word-Faith movement is not the gospel of the New Testament. Word-Faith doctrine is a mongrel system, a blend of mysticism (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m00.html#mysticism), dualism, and gnosticism (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/g00.html#gnosticism) that borrows generously from the teachings of the metaphysical (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m00.html#meta) cults. The Word-Faith movement may be the most dangerous false system that has grown out of the charismatic (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c48.html) movement so far, because so many charismatics are unsure of the finality of Scripture
John MacArthur, Charismatic Chaos, p. 290

There are many perculiar ideas and practices in the Faith theology, but what merits it the label of heresy (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/h27.html) are the following: 1) its deistic (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/d00.html#deism) view of God, who must dance to men's attempts to manipulate the spiritual laws of the universe; 2) its demonic (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/d21.html) view of Christ, who was filled with "the Satanic nature" and must be "born again in hell; 3) its gnostic (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/g00.html#gnosticism) view of revelation, which demands denial of the physical senses and classifies Christians by their willingness to do so; and 4) its metaphysical (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/m00.html#meta) view of salvation, which deifies man and spiritualizes the atonement, locating it in hell rather than on the cross, thereby subverting the crucial biblical belief that it is Christ's physical death and shed blood, which alone atone for sin. All four of these heresies may be accounted for by Kenyon (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/k00.html#kenyon)'s syncretism (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s00.html#syncretism) of methaphysical thought with traditional biblical doctrine (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/o00.html#orthodoxy)"
D.R. McConnell, A Different Gospel (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565631323/christianministr)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:26 AM
sorry but the link you posted doesn't work!;)

yeah it does :)

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:48 AM
From what I read, a lot of people had some good things to say about her teachings, and then I read, however, another explanation, and I thought, oh, this is probably from someone that doesn't like Joyce Meyer who knows nothing about her or what she teaches or whatever.:hmm: I went to see her with a friend of mine, when she came to Little Rock and she taught from the Bible, in a way people could understand it. She taught on some of the things in the book Battlefield of the Mind, like your mindsets etc. How to overcome negative thinking and not let the devil take over your mind. What's so bad about teaching people things like this? If it helps you to drive the devil away and get your mind on God and acting the way a Christian should act and think, I don't understand what you don't like about this and especially quoting scriptures from the Bible all through her sermons? Sure she may teach and preach different from most preachers, but she still teaches from the Bible! Same goes from watching her on t.v.;)

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:57 AM
Have you read this? Which parts do you disagree with?

Again, have you read this book?

Zorgblar
Feb 2nd 2008, 01:58 AM
:help:A friend recently recommended Joyce Meyer's book on the Battlefield of the Mind which I haven't read yet. Have you read it? What do you think?

w.o.o.

I haven't ever read that book.Is it good?

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:02 AM
Word-Faith Movement
Also known as "Name-in-Claim-it," "Health and Wealth Gospel," "Positive Confession," "Word of Faith," etc.

Word-Faith teachers owe their ancestry to groups like Christian Science, Swedenborgianism, Theosophy, Science of Mind, and New Thought--not to classical Pentecostalism. It reveals that at their very core, Word-Faith teachings are corrupt. Their undeniable derivation is cultish, not Christian. The sad truth is that the gospel proclaimed by the Word-Faith movement is not the gospel of the New Testament. Word-Faith doctrine is a mongrel system, a blend of mysticism, dualism, and gnosticism that borrows generously from the teachings of the metaphysical cults. The Word-Faith movement may be the most dangerous false system that has grown out of the charismatic movement so far, because so many charismatics are unsure of the finality of Scripture
John MacArthur, Charismatic Chaos, p. 290

There are many perculiar ideas and practices in the Faith theology, but what merits it the label of heresy are the following: 1) its deistic view of God, who must dance to men's attempts to manipulate the spiritual laws of the universe; 2) its demonic view of Christ, who was filled with "the Satanic nature" and must be "born again in hell; 3) its gnostic view of revelation, which demands denial of the physical senses and classifies Christians by their willingness to do so; and 4) its metaphysical view of salvation, which deifies man and spiritualizes the atonement, locating it in hell rather than on the cross, thereby subverting the crucial biblical belief that it is Christ's physical death and shed blood, which alone atone for sin. All four of these heresies may be accounted for by Kenyon's syncretism of methaphysical thought with traditional biblical doctrine"
D.R. McConnell, A Different Gospel


ROFL! For the life of me, I do not understand why people think we have NO discernment whatsoever! Its a book - its not written in stone. Pick the thing up, start reading, if it agrees with you, fine - if not, put it down and go on your way... get a different book!

It is chock-full of Scripture - but then most of her books are...

This quote above me - sounds like someone has a lot of hate, here... sad to see.

And personally, I do not care a whit for doctrine - anything that pertains to the relationship between a man and his God is good enough for me.

One doesn`t even need to buy it. Most libraries carry them.

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:06 AM
Again, have you read this book?


Yeah St_Michael, you haven't answered menJesus question and we would like to know if you've read the book?;)

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:11 AM
Pretty much Meyer's take on the whole thing.. read response #5.. dangerous stuff.

Response #5 pretty much says it all. See my link above for additional information.

It seems like #5 says what YOU think about it.

But people need to do it right - not listen to you and me and what writers on websites say - its best to go to the source - the horses` mouth, if you will.

Anybody alive can form their own opinion of what they read. Let the reader decide.

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:12 AM
Again, have you read this book?


ROFL! For the life of me, I do not understand why people think we have NO discernment whatsoever! Its a book - its not written in stone. Pick the thing up, start reading, if it agrees with you, fine - if not, put it down and go on your way... get a different book!

It is chock-full of Scripture - but then most of her books are...

This quote above me - sounds like someone has a lot of hate, here... sad to see.

And personally, I do not care a whit for doctrine - anything that pertains to the relationship between a man and his God is good enough for me.

I feel the same way menJesus..Like I said before, I read the book in 4 days, couldn't put it down. If a person read it, and followed along in the Bible with the scripture that she put in the book, it could be very helpful to people, if they would let it, along with God's help of course! All you ask St_Michael is if he/she read the book! I would be satisfied with a yes or no, wouldn't you?

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:12 AM
..... snip.... She taught on some of the things in the book Battlefield of the Mind, like your mindsets etc. How to overcome negative thinking and not let the devil take over your mind. What's so bad about teaching people things like this? If it helps you to drive the devil away and get your mind on God and acting the way a Christian should act and think, I don't understand what you don't like about this and especially quoting scriptures from the Bible all through her sermons?

By no means do I think her an evil or bad person. I believe she is teaching what she thinks is right and true. That unfortunately does not make it right or true.

She does a good job helping people "in the now" good solid advice and straight talk. She would be a great therapist.

It is not that I dislike her at all. The problem I have is her connection to the Word of Faith movement. It is basically new age, gnostic mysticism, metaphysical mind control etc etc etc.

Name it claim it, Prosperity, Health and Wealth, Positive confession, Speaking creative words of power etc etc etc.... some of that even delves into the occult.

Now, I am not here to argue. If you are blessed by her then be blessed. I simply wanted to offer a mild warning (be careful folks) because you are starting to get into Christian Science and New Thought concepts. I have seen it destroy people.

Some (NOT ALL) of the scriptural basis she uses to make her points is twisted and presented in a way that you really have to be on guard to catch.

I guess in the end I am trying to say... be careful. This brand of Christianity has already led too many astray.

Rhetorical question: Why does she need so much material wealth? She isn't rich... she's wealthy. Why the $10 million jet, the houses, etc etc etc...?

Go ahead be blessed, but be careful. Wolves come in sheeps clothing and false prophets preaching false gospels are all around us. We need to emulate Jesus Christ and serve our fellow man. It is about worship not what we can get from God.

I could say a lot more, but I just stop here.

~St. M

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:14 AM
Yeah St_Michael, you haven't answered menJesus question and we would like to know if you've read the book?;)


Yes I did answer the question.. read please.

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:17 AM
ROFL! For the life of me, I do not understand why people think we have NO discernment whatsoever! Its a book - its not written in stone. Pick the thing up, start reading, if it agrees with you, fine - if not, put it down and go on your way... get a different book!

It is chock-full of Scripture - but then most of her books are...

This quote above me - sounds like someone has a lot of hate, here... sad to see.

And personally, I do not care a whit for doctrine - anything that pertains to the relationship between a man and his God is good enough for me.

One doesn`t even need to buy it. Most libraries carry them.

Hate? No way! It is our duty as Christians to call out false doctrine. Go ahead and believe what you wish, but be warned.

I'll post one more resource link.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif Atonement and the Word-Faith Movement (http://watchman.org/rprtldie.htm)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif Article from Watchman Fellowship (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/w00.html#watchm)
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif Atonement Where? (http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/moreno1.html)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif A Biblical analysis and refutation of the disturbing claims put forward by the Faith Movement, which include the inefficiency of Christ's blood, alone, to atone for the sins of man; the need for Christ's spiritual death, and that the redemption of mankind was completed in hell. By Moreno Dal Bello
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif An Examination of the Word-Faith Movement (http://www.biblebb.com/files/WRDFAITH.HTM)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif A good overview.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif Faith in Faith or Faith in God? (http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0063a.html)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif by Hank Hanegraaff (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c174.html), president of CRI (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c174.html)
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif The 'Faith' Movement May Be Prospering, But Is It Healthy? (http://www.misslink.net/chofgod/healthy.htm)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif By Stuart StJohn.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif

and one more....

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:23 AM
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif My Word-of-Faith Testimony (http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/mytest.html)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif by Tricia Tillin
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif Pentecost or Plotinus? (http:///fmpen/FMPro?-db=features.fp3&-format=record%5fdetail.htm&-lay=browse%20-%20main%20layout&-sortfield=Issue%20Year&-sortorder=descend&-op=eq&Issue%20Month=September&-op=eq&Issue%20Year=1999&-max=2147483647&-recid=33620&-find)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif A discussion of the origins of word-faith teaching being Plotinus not the Pentecostal movement. By Oliver Hammond.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif Positive Confession (http://watchman.org/posconf.htm)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif Article from Watchman Fellowship (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/w00.html#watchm)
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif Profile of the Word-Faith Movement (http://www.watchman.org/wordpro.htm)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif by Watchman Fellowship (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/w00.html#watchm)
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif Ten Reasons To Reject Word of Faith Teachings (http://www.banner.org.uk/wof/tract3.html)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif By Tricia Tillin
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/dotblue.gif What's Wrong With The Faith Movement? (http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/crj0118a.txt)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif and part two (http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/copelnd2.htm)http://www.apologeticsindex.org/graphics/out4.gif By Hank Hanegraaff (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c174.html).

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:25 AM
St. Michael, she backs up what she says with Scripture - the unwavering, infallible Word of the Living God - how can she be wrong in that?

And for the wealth - she has written over 50 books...if it were Stephen King or Ann Rule, no one would bat their eyes at the money or the planes or the mansions - why a woman of God?

Did you ever go read her website? or her financial statement? you should - the church funds do not support her... go find out - you may be surprised at what you find out.

Now the Bible says we shall know them by their fruits - if she has led 1,000,000 people into a positive relationship with God by her books, I would call that fruit - an orchard!

I do thank you for the warning - I know that you believe you are right - but truth has three sides - find out all three before you speak against someone in her position...

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:26 AM
I haven't ever read that book.Is it good?


Yes it is a good book Zorgblar! I have the book and the study guide that goes along with it.

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:29 AM
QR: I am not here to argue. Her take on scripture is twisted in the presentation. Study it.

Do what you want, but you have been made aware of the facts.

~Godbless

I'm outta here.

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:35 AM
I have read about 20 of her books - all from the library. I would get 5-10 at a time, read them over and over. I disagreed with a couple of points. But, if ten men tell you the "truth" about God or something in the Bible, then you have 10 different versions - all "true"!

God has given her wisdom, for sure, regarding what she writes of. I`d imagine she helps many people, in many ways. And I was one of them. :)

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:37 AM
QR: I am not here to argue. Her take on scripture is twisted in the presentation. Study it.

Do what you want, but you have been made aware of the facts.

~Godbless

I'm outta here.

I am not arguing, Michael. I am telling you that there is more than you know... please, find out the whole truth for yourself.

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:37 AM
QR: I am not here to argue. Her take on scripture is twisted in the presentation.:hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm::hmm:???????????H UH! Study it.

Do what you want, but you have been made aware of the facts.

~Godbless

I'm outta here.

:giveup::giveup::giveup::giveup::giveup::giveup::g iveup:

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:39 AM
You obviously didnt read a single word I wrote..... or posted reference to.

Oh well.

threebigrocks
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:41 AM
First, know the Good Book.

Read what you will.

Hold it up to scripture.

Spit out the bones, chew on the meat. Per scripture.

skc53
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:42 AM
You obviously didnt read a single word I wrote..... or posted reference to.

Oh well.


Oh yes I did, sorry but I have to agree with menJesus on this one!!!!;)

threebigrocks
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:43 AM
You obviously didnt read a single word I wrote..... or posted reference to.

Oh well.

Honestly, it was links and whatnot. What we are looking for is, in your own words, what's your take on her book. There's much we can say about Joyce Meyers, but what about, in your own words, that one book?

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 02:47 AM
Already plainly stated... and it isn't one book... it is her theology.

The links arn't whatnot, they are resources that describe the ideas and fallacies in WoF.

Sure I could have spent an hour writing all that out but why?

threebigrocks
Feb 2nd 2008, 03:13 AM
BUT ;), the OP is about the book.

And, your own words - tis' a discussion board you are on my friend. :)

Zorgblar
Feb 2nd 2008, 03:14 AM
Yes it is a good book Zorgblar! I have the book and the study guide that goes along with it.

If i can i might buy it one day and read it it sounds interesting.:hmm:

St_Michael
Feb 2nd 2008, 03:16 AM
LOL I only had like 2-3 posts where I posted and cited different sources....

gimmie a break :)

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 03:19 AM
First, know the Good Book.

Read what you will.

Hold it up to scripture.

Spit out the bones, chew on the meat. Per scripture.

This works, absolutely!

PS: Zorgblar, go to the library. They are full of wonderful wonderful books - all for the price of a library card. :)

Seeker of truth
Feb 2nd 2008, 03:25 AM
:help:A friend recently recommended Joyce Meyer's book on the Battlefield of the Mind which I haven't read yet. Have you read it? What do you think?

w.o.o.

This book is on my "to read" list. A few of my friends really like Joyce Meyer and speak highly of her. I don't know a lot about her work for the Lord but I like what I know :)

Zorgblar
Feb 2nd 2008, 04:51 AM
PS: Zorgblar, go to the library. They are full of wonderful wonderful books - all for the price of a library card. :)

Ok i will try that.:)

Amazedgrace21
Feb 2nd 2008, 05:55 AM
I read it and had the same response to it I did when I first encountered Rick Warrens', "The Purpose Driven Church"..something just kept "niggling at me" that something was "off"..there was so much scripture tucked in between dialogue narrating it.

It read more like a loose self-help 'therapy' program going on with putting scripture here and there to make some sort of pitch..about how to get what we want by finding a way to put all the blame on Satan for confusing us and how to "bind him" so we can prosper in life ..aka the "victorious life of the prosperity gospel theme", again I personally don't endorse, I am more traditional and conservative in my bent about these things...this is just me and how I personally relate to these things.:)

I went back to it again a few months later, began re-reading, and found what it was thatset me off..I was trying to be fair and objective about it becasue I am not a fan of her ministry but I know many folks who are.

This was what 'caught my attention' and for me personally helped me focus in on what I found was a'theme' throughout that should be considered.It sort of jumped out at me...



I once asked the Lord why so many people are confused and He said to me, ĎTell them to stop trying to figure everything out, and they will stop being confused.í I have found it to be absolutely true. Reasoning and confusion go together. "Battlefield For The Mind", p.99



I asked myself , "Would God really say something like this?":hmm:

Then I asked God, "Did you ever say something like this?":confused

This was the answer I found when I went back to God's book and did some digging.:)

Let us renew our commitment to that which unites us. And let us renew our commitment to the scripture which commands us to reason together. Isaiah 1:18. ...

The loss of the ability to think critically leads to the inability to discern truth and reject falsehood. IMHO, if we cannot discern truth, then we do not truly know the Truth, the Lord Jesus Christ.We need God to reveal truth to us and we need to use our minds, along with the rest of our being, to properly understand and apply that revelation to our lives.

This is a reoccuring them through out scripture... look at Ephesians 4:11-23,

"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare Godís people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming."
So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. (v.19)


Paul is admonishing all of us to think!



It is not enough to have some experience of God, or to have read the Bible once, or maybe only parts of it once. We are called not to indulge our ignorance, to not harden our hearts, to think clearly about the Word of God. And we are warned that a darkened understanding leads to separation from the life of God.

Go on starting from verse 19:
Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.


You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; " [emphasis added]
So, again we see that our minds are involved. If the Christian faith were meant to be all feeling and the inner witness of the Holy Spirit in each of our lives, we would not need the written Word.


God certainly seems to be saying we need to be thinking and reasoning these things through and that we must continue to study and learn and review that which we have already studied and learned.:hmm:

If we fail to do that, then we canít do our jobs very well and our work becomes ineffectual, but I don't see Satan being blamed for our failure to do this and the problems it gets us into when we don't...I do see God telling us this is our responsibility and a matter of our obedience..:hmm:

In 1 Corinthians 3:11-14 Paul writes:

"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each manís work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."
Finally, in addition to thinking about our ultimate fate, we gain freedom and joy in this life from special revelation. In Psalm 119:45 the psalmist writes: "I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts."


This psalm says that we are blessed and righteous in Godís sight if we meditate on His law day and night. In other words, if we pay careful enough attention to Godís Word and we study it, we can learn everything necessary for a Godly life and we will be blessed.


In Proverbs 28:9 we read, "If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law, even his prayers are detestable." And, in Proverbs 28:26, "He who trusts in himself is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom is kept safe." As a final proverb, look at Proverbs 29:18, "Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but blessed is he who keeps the law." Again, Satan is not being blamed if we chose to not do these things, and apparently he is not the one making us disobey here either..:hmm:



Also, in 2 Peter 1:19 we read, "And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts." By using "you", I take this to mean 'me", that I am a greater enemy to myself than Satan is, if I am the one who is confused becasue I did not pay attention.:hmm:


In the beginning of his Gospel, Luke writes:
"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught." (Luke 1:1-4)
Read these combat scriptures: Romans 8:1-2, Romans 8:31-39. This is about the Whole Armor of God, and all the places we will encounter battle's with Satan. Most importantly it's about the tactics he uses and not simply the places.

Taking up the Shield of Faith is a defensive action which uses specific truths from God's Word to counteract the Devil's lies and accusations. When the enemy attacks, the shield puts out the firey darts (lies, accusations or anything he can use to keep you from God) with the truth and promises of God's Word.

Shields are the source of water that can extinguish the fires of Satan, but shields can dry out -- that's why it's VITAL that we stay in the Word of God every day!! The Sword of the Spirit -- Individual Scripture in which the Holy Spirit brings to our remembrance for use in time of need as we engage in a hand-to-hand combat with our spiritual enemies.Sure Satan can win any battle if we let him but by "letting him", it seems to mean becasue we didn't fight back by doing what God said to do,:hmm: the battle field wasn't lost in the mind..it just was not fought at all..

It's critical that we're skilled (prepared) in the Word of God. Too often Christians find themselves in the heat of the battle without ever graduating from boot-camp preparing their minds yes but also their hearts and their lives with the reinforcement of the knowledge of God's Word, or without being prayed up, or without listening to the guiding advice of the Holy Spirit.

Look up the following verses to learn of the authority God has given you in this battle: Col. 1:13,Col. 2:15.John 12:31,Hebrews 2:14,I John 3:8 for some examples.Authority goes hand-in-hand with Power. Together, they are unbeatable. There is no authority or power that can take over your authority and power, and certainly none that can defeat God's authority and power!

We're told in Isaiah 54:17 ... "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper ...." Read Psalms 91 to learn more about Divine Protection! We are here to carry on the Lord's work. In order to accomplish this, God has given us His authority and His power for this work..

Jesus told us that "All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:18-20).

There was my answer..God absolutely never tells us to stop trying to figure things out..or that this will make our confusion go away..:hmm:


God is not the author of confusion is He? But if we do do not do what God commands and study the word and be filed by the Holy Spirit with it's truth..as God commands, won't we become confused and unable to discern truth from lies?


It seem's God's motives for wanting us to do this are different than Joyse's..her books and their ministry is very focused and broadly promoted and pitched as spiritual self- help programs and using the bible to build up our self esteem.Should we let this become our priority and the reason we study scripture?


The Word of God is God's 'program' for building up His Kingdom..so that other's may prosper and for His Glory IMHO, to esteem God and His Word is not an option, and reasoning is required of us.This is what Jesus has commanded us to do and when we do, this is "our blessing".

Just my take on this book and why it "turned me off":D


I felt very uncomfortable with how scripture was used to improvise a 'self-help program' where the 'me is in charge instead of surrendered to the Holy Spirit, This and a theme where Satan was being blamed for much IMHO, he is not going to get the credit for. with what get's into our minds and what we do with it! :)

Athanasius
Feb 2nd 2008, 06:56 AM
It's like everything, you have to read it with a discerning spirit.
That said. . . I read it a few years ago and, as with the post above, I did not agree with everything in the book, though she did make some good points.

Personally, I don't enjoy listening to Joyce Meyer.

It's like the Purpose Driven Life/Church, there are some good points, but the majority of it is fluff and you'd probably be better off not reading it to begin with. As long as you aren't convinced everything she says is right because she quotes the entire Bible, you'll do fine in reading the book.

menJesus
Feb 2nd 2008, 11:14 AM
I agree. I did what skc53 sis - book in one hand, Bible in the other. I couldn`t agree with a few of her interpretations, but I really enjoyed the way she took the Scripture and explained it.

I don`t know anything about this Word of Faith business - if its true, it does sound bad.

But I know that I gained quite a bit of understanding of the Scripture through her books. And that is what I was looking for. :)

turtledove
Feb 3rd 2008, 09:09 PM
I haven't ever read that book.Is it good?


In my original post I said a friend recommended the book to me. However, I haven't read it yet. That is why I started the thread to get various opinions from anyone who had read the book. But I will read it and I am grateful for the viewpoints expressed here by those who have read the book. Thanks for sharing folks!

God bless,

wiseoldowl

menJesus
Feb 3rd 2008, 10:20 PM
Happy reading! Keep your Bible handy - you will need it! :)

Frances
Feb 4th 2008, 04:57 PM
Owl, I look forward to discovering your views on the book after you've read it - in light of the comments here. . . . before I decide whether or not to get a copy to read.

Lyndie
Feb 5th 2008, 01:43 AM
Per Amazedgrace's post. IMO, the point she was trying to make was trying to figure it out on our own, without God's help. I read that book, and it was instrumental on helping me out of my depression and anxiety. I do believe the way we think definately has an affect on our lives and attitudes. For example if I always think about what I don't have, I cannot think about what I do have. I I always think about my sins, and the guilt that goes along with it, I will be miserable. Thus forgetting the sacrifice Jesus made for my sins, of which I should be grateful and joyful, I am no longer guilty praise God!!! I don't think having good thoughts about my life is a bad thing either. No where in the Bible does it say to walk about wretched and miserable.

skc53
Feb 5th 2008, 11:45 AM
Per Amazedgrace's post. IMO, the point she was trying to make was trying to figure it out on our own, without God's help. I read that book, and it was instrumental on helping me out of my depression and anxiety. I do believe the way we think definately has an affect on our lives and attitudes. For example if I always think about what I don't have, I cannot think about what I do have. I I always think about my sins, and the guilt that goes along with it, I will be miserable. Thus forgetting the sacrifice Jesus made for my sins, of which I should be grateful and joyful, I am no longer guilty praise God!!! I don't think having good thoughts about my life is a bad thing either. No where in the Bible does it say to walk about wretched and miserable.


Great post Lyndie! After reading the book it changed my way of thinking such as don't dwell on negative things. With God's help you can change your thinking and mindsets. Praise the Lord! I'm thankful that Joyce wrote this book, because it has helped thousands of people.;):pp

Lyndie
Feb 5th 2008, 06:44 PM
Was thinking about this last night, something else about believing for good things. I would rather believe God for great things and get some of it, than believe God for nothing and get nothing.

St_Michael
Feb 5th 2008, 07:02 PM
Yeah, but thinking you can manipulate God's Will by speaking words of power and positive confession is NOT Christianity.

Fine, believe God for great things. That doesn't mean you are gonna get it.

See, God doesn't need you and He doesn't need your money. He just wants your heart. I worship God. I don't believe Him for some sort of monetary possession, good health, good relationships, a clean mind etc etc etc....

I go to Him on my knees for worship... not to ask for stuff or believe in deliverance from spooks.

Bottom line. We are our own worst enemy. Most every problem we have as humans we can solved by using the grey matter God gave us in the first place.

Want stuff? Go to school get a great job. Want health? layoff the cheeseburger and quit the smoking. Want to be delivered from demonic oppression? Quit shooting yourself in the foot at every turn in your life and adjust your attitude.

I say this with the vast majority in mind. Instead of believing for good things... go get them! God already put most of yall here in either the USA or Western Europe. If you can't make a difference in this world being given that opportunity then shame.

God has already given you what you "NEED" .... it is time for action .. not a constant wallowing in self-help junk ... bound in utter mediocrity.

~I'll stop now...

Lyndie
Feb 5th 2008, 10:53 PM
Yeah, but thinking you can manipulate God's Will by speaking words of power and positive confession is NOT Christianity.

Fine, believe God for great things. That doesn't mean you are gonna get it.

See, God doesn't need you and He doesn't need your money. He just wants your heart. I worship God. I don't believe Him for some sort of monetary possession, good health, good relationships, a clean mind etc etc etc....

I go to Him on my knees for worship... not to ask for stuff or believe in deliverance from spooks.

Bottom line. We are our own worst enemy. Most every problem we have as humans we can solved by using the grey matter God gave us in the first place.

Want stuff? Go to school get a great job. Want health? layoff the cheeseburger and quit the smoking. Want to be delivered from demonic oppression? Quit shooting yourself in the foot at every turn in your life and adjust your attitude.

I say this with the vast majority in mind. Instead of believing for good things... go get them! God already put most of yall here in either the USA or Western Europe. If you can't make a difference in this world being given that opportunity then shame.

God has already given you what you "NEED" .... it is time for action .. not a constant wallowing in self-help junk ... bound in utter mediocrity.

~I'll stop now...

By saying that, what on earth would I need God for? I tried doing things on my own for 10 years and stayed drunk for those ten years. It wasn't until I turned to God, lived, prayed and believed His word that my life changed. We have a aprt we need to do to cooperate with God, but trying to do things all on our own is like saying we don't need God.

St_Michael
Feb 5th 2008, 10:59 PM
I think maybe ya missed the point...

BTW -- I am very proud of you for your sobriety :) Godbless you Lyndie

sunney4
Feb 5th 2008, 11:25 PM
Yeah, but thinking you can manipulate God's Will by speaking words of power and positive confession is NOT Christianity.

Fine, believe God for great things. That doesn't mean you are gonna get it.

See, God doesn't need you and He doesn't need your money. He just wants your heart. I worship God. I don't believe Him for some sort of monetary possession, good health, good relationships, a clean mind etc etc etc....

I go to Him on my knees for worship... not to ask for stuff or believe in deliverance from spooks.

Bottom line. We are our own worst enemy. Most every problem we have as humans we can solved by using the grey matter God gave us in the first place.

Want stuff? Go to school get a great job. Want health? layoff the cheeseburger and quit the smoking. Want to be delivered from demonic oppression? Quit shooting yourself in the foot at every turn in your life and adjust your attitude.

I say this with the vast majority in mind. Instead of believing for good things... go get them! God already put most of yall here in either the USA or Western Europe. If you can't make a difference in this world being given that opportunity then shame.

God has already given you what you "NEED" .... it is time for action .. not a constant wallowing in self-help junk ... bound in utter mediocrity.

~I'll stop now...


How is this helpful to the OP st.michael? They are asking for thoughts and/or reviews of the book? Have you read it?

St_Michael
Feb 5th 2008, 11:26 PM
yes, I have read it and many of the other books... I have also responded in the thread earlier..

Sorry.. if i overstepped I know there are a lot of Charismatics here.

It is helpful to the OP to understand what kind of ideas are being taught in the book and in the Meyer teaching in general.

turtledove
Feb 6th 2008, 12:10 AM
Owl, I look forward to discovering your views on the book after you've read it - in light of the comments here. . . . before I decide whether or not to get a copy to read.

Thanks, Frances, I can appreciate that although my purpose here was not to promote the book but just to find out what others thought of it. It will be a while before I get to it as much here is pending. I do value the judgment of the mature pastor's wife who recommended this book to me who has been my friend now for well over 30 years. They are using it as a bible study for a group in her church. (It's not my church, however); but I will look into it and use my own judgment about it's merits, but I do appreciate hearing other's opinions and so started the thread.

Peace,

Owl :pray: