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Zorgblar
Feb 3rd 2008, 12:13 PM
1.What is first peter chapter 3 verses 18-19 suppose to be talking about when it says jesus talked to the spirits in jail?
2.What does hebrews chapther 12 verse 1 mean when it says that we are surround by a great crowd of witnesses?Who are the witnesses?

specks
Feb 3rd 2008, 01:13 PM
In Hebrews 12:1, it is referring to the people mentioned in Chapter 11. When I read this a while back I wondered how they could be witnesses if they aren't still alive. Here is what one commentary had to say about it:



They surround us as a great cloud of witnesses. This does not mean that they are spectators of what goes on earth. Rather they witness to us by their lives of faith and endurance and set a high standard for us to duplicate.

specks
Feb 3rd 2008, 01:16 PM
Oh, and I don't know about the other verses. Haven't studied that book yet. My commentary starts out saying "Verses 19, 20 constitute one of the most puzzling and intriguing texts in the NT." You sure know how to pick 'em! :lol:

menJesus
Feb 3rd 2008, 01:46 PM
Amen to that! :)

markedward
Feb 3rd 2008, 08:27 PM
1.What is first peter chapter 3 verses 18-19 suppose to be talking about when it says jesus talked to the spirits in jail?This goes in hand with your other thread, about Jesus going to "hell."

Take a quick read of my post there before you continue reading this post.

http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1524152&postcount=6

Now, according to David/Peter, Jesus' soul went to hades (not the eternal lake of fire). Hades was the place that all souls, whether good or bad, went before the coming of Christ, because not even the good souls could enter into heaven before Jesus had brought them redemption through the cross.

So, in accordance with that belief, some people beleive that when Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison," that the "prison" being referred to was hades, and that Jesus had to preach to the people who had died before Him about who He was.

Other than that, it's hard to say that, if He did so, He did it to "convert" anyone who was in hades. However, we do know that there were people found in hades that were found in the Book of Life (read Revelation 20).

Zorgblar
Feb 3rd 2008, 08:29 PM
This goes in hand with your other thread, about Jesus going to "hell."

Take a quick read of my post there before you continue reading this post.

http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1524152&postcount=6

Now, according to David/Peter, Jesus' soul went to hades (not the eternal lake of fire). Hades was the place that all souls, whether good or bad, went before the coming of Christ, because not even the good souls could enter into heaven before Jesus had brought them redemption through the cross.

So, in accordance with that belief, some people beleive that when Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison," that the "prison" being referred to was hades, and that Jesus had to preach to the people who had died before Him about who He was.

Other than that, it's hard to say that, if He did so, He did it to "convert" anyone who was in hades. However, we do know that there were people found in hades that were found in the Book of Life (read Revelation 20).

Ok i read both posts and they were very enlightening.:)

RogerW
Feb 3rd 2008, 08:50 PM
1.What is first peter chapter 3 verses 18-19 suppose to be talking about when it says jesus talked to the spirits in jail?
2.What does hebrews chapther 12 verse 1 mean when it says that we are surround by a great crowd of witnesses?Who are the witnesses?

Greetings Zorgblar,

Christ has always existed in His eternal nature and Spirit, even before the world began, before Abraham, in the days of Noah. Christ (by His Spirit) preached to men of old (now in hell (grave) awaiting Judgment Day), through faithful Noah. The gospel of the Lamb of God is no new meassage. It is the Word of faith in and by the Spirit of Christ that all the prophets preached.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Ro 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Ro 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Christ, by His Spirit, through the ministry of righteousn Noah preached to those wicked and disobedient people. Noah preached as he built the ark. This was not just Noah alone, but the Spirit of Christ through Noah, speaking, preaching warning, teaching in the world of old, the world before the flood.

All men are in prison before they are saved. This is not a literal prison, but being in bondage to sin and death, and without ability to attain unto eternal life until the Spirit gives them life...i.e. they are born again!

Many Blessings,
RW

Jerry4America
Feb 3rd 2008, 10:04 PM
Now, according to David/Peter, Jesus' soul went to hades (not the eternal lake of fire). When you drop the term Hades and go with the English, the understanding is more easily attained. David and Peter said Hell. Hell is the temporary pin of all unsaved souls who die without Christ. Jesus went to Hell because he had to get the "keys of hell," remember? (Revelation 1:18).
Hades was the place that all souls, whether good or bad, went before the coming of Christ, because not even the good souls could enter into heaven before Jesus had brought them redemption through the cross. Not according to Luke 16. Hell is a place for unsaved people while Abraham's Bosom is straight across the way on the other side of the divide where OT saints waited for Christ to come down and take them to heaven with him.


So, in accordance with that belief, some people beleive that when Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison," that the "prison" being referred to was hades, and that Jesus had to preach to the people who had died before Him about who He was. Actually, the text explains who he is speaking about in verse 20 of the same chapter as the people of Noah's day which kind of makes sense in view of the fact that that event is compared by our Lord to the Great Tribulation wherein people will be left behind and will get a second chance to get saved by hearing the actual preaching of Moses and Elijah. So, the people in Hell that perished in the flood of Noah will get a second chance to get saved by hearing Jesus' preaching. Interesting thought, but yes, the "spirit's in prison" are the folks who perished in the Great Flood.

markedward
Feb 3rd 2008, 10:36 PM
When you drop the term Hades and go with the English, the understanding is more easily attained. David and Peter said Hell. Hell is the temporary pin of all unsaved souls who die without Christ. Jesus went to Hell because he had to get the "keys of hell," remember? (Revelation 1:18).Hades (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=86&version=kjv), different from Gehenna (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1067&version=kjv). Hell is an English word incorrectly applied to two distinct places, hades and gehenna. Hades is only spoken of in the past or present tenses, and in Revelation 20 it is stated that hades will be thrown into the eternal "lake of fire," while gehenna is always spoken of in the future tense by Jesus, and He always refers to it as being the eternal fire (i.e, gehenna is the lake of fire, hades is not). Many English translations incorrectly call both hades and gehenna as "hell." I stick to the original Greek words used, hades and gehenna.


Not according to Luke 16. Hell is a place for unsaved people while Abraham's Bosom is straight across the way on the other side of the divide where OT saints waited for Christ to come down and take them to heaven with him.
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.If someone who was found in Hades was not found in the Book of Life, they were cast into the lake of fire, along with Hades. That means that there would be people who were found in Hades who were found in the Book of Life.


Actually, the text explains who he is speaking about in verse 20 of the same chapter as the people of Noah's dayHence that I said "some people believe."


which kind of makes sense in view of the fact that that event is compared by our Lord to the Great Tribulation wherein people will be left behindAnd who was it that was left behind in Noah's day? Noah and his family were "left behind," while the wicked were the ones taken away.