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JesusPhreak27
Feb 7th 2008, 01:17 AM
Greetings my brothers and sisters in Christ!

I have a topic that I would like to hear your feedback on.

Today I had a meeting with the pastor of my church. We were going over a sermon God gave me to preach while in Afghanistan. After that we just started talking about miscelaneous things which eventually led to the topc Im posting about.

There is (was) a lesbian couple (I believe that they were "married") that attend(ed) my church here in North Dakota. They both played in the praise band, one was even the praise band leader. Apparently it was well known that they were a couple. They never let on to this..... no PDA or anything like that. While I was in Afghanistan, they apperently they started acting "too gay" and the pastor asked them to leave the church. I dont know what they did to become considered "too" gay, that wasnt talked about.

Later in the day I got back home and talked about what had happened to my wife. She was vividly upset over this (she had never met the women as she has only been attending this church for about a month or so). She made the comment that the pastor had no right to ask them to leave as they are God's children and sinners just the same as we are. For a while I tried to argue from the standpoint that possibly their actions adversly affected the congregation. But eventually found myself agreeing with her.

What Im trying to ask is this: Did the Pastor act in the right? I know that Paul says that we should not associate with the sexually immoral and that homosexuality is considered immoral. But is my wife correct when she said that the church of all places should be the most accepting place in the world? Should gay people be asked to leave the church?

Something in my soul is telling me that what the Pastor did is wrong. But Im just not sure.

Athanasius
Feb 7th 2008, 01:20 AM
I don't know the exact situation. . .
But what I do know is that if you're going to be in a position of leadership in the church, you had especially be fleeing from sin. If they were a married lesbian couple. . . .

JesusPhreak27
Feb 7th 2008, 01:24 AM
But wouldnt that be the same as saying you cant be a Pastor if you have been divorced?

St_Michael
Feb 7th 2008, 01:25 AM
IMHO your wife is right and you are right to agree with her... The Pastor needs a workshop or ten.

When did the Christian Church start asking sinners to leave? It is IMHO what is wrong with this self-righteous, judgemental brand of Christianity that is prevalent in some fundamental groups today. I am not saying "its ok" --- I am saying mercy and love and grace are character qualities that transcend judgement. I will leave the judging to Lord God Almighty.

Would Jesus have kicked them out? IMHO, NOWAY!

militarywife
Feb 7th 2008, 01:26 AM
She made the comment that the pastor had no right to ask them to leave as they are God's children and sinners just the same as we are.

I agree.
It is not the healthy who need a doctor...but the sick.

Love the person hate the sin.

JesusPhreak27
Feb 7th 2008, 01:30 AM
St. Michael and Militarywife

Thanks for your comments. The more I meditate on this and think about it the more I start to truely agree with what my wife is saying.

Like you said......Love the person hate the sin.

Now the next question I have is what to do about it?

What Im saying is that I dont want to leave the church because of this...... like Rick Warren says..... there is far too much "church jumping" happening. There is too much up and leaving because of trivial issues going on. I would like to do something about this. But not in a harmful or demeaning way.

What would you do in this situation?

Athanasius
Feb 7th 2008, 01:30 AM
But wouldnt that be the same as saying you cant be a Pastor if you have been divorced?

Well, where I come from. . . .

Leadership in the church should not be engaging in obviously immoral behavior, especially while in that position of leadership.
That's all I was commenting on.

The church is made up of sinners, that's obvious enough. To kick someone out of church because they were gay, I don't agree with.
If they were in leadership in terms of worship, well then, that's something entirely different.

Edit* To clarify, I mean sinners who have an attitude towards getting out of sin. Not sinners who believe their sin is justified.

St_Michael
Feb 7th 2008, 01:42 AM
I dont know bro. I really dont. I know what I would do, but I do not want to upset anyone on the boards.

I'll put it to you like this. I would go to this Pastor with complete humility and be an advocate for the lost and the sinner.

In my mind, that is what Christ taught us to do. I would also somehow let these ladies know that your family loves them via written note, phone call, lunch, etc etc etc....not the sin but them and their worth as Children of God. Let them know that you are their advocate standing in the breach.

We need... no it is essential we do this for our fellow Christians.... essential.

All of this is JMO.

~Godbless.. I know you'll do the right thing.

militarywife
Feb 7th 2008, 01:47 AM
St. Michael and Militarywife

Thanks for your comments. The more I meditate on this and think about it the more I start to truely agree with what my wife is saying.

Like you said......Love the person hate the sin.

Now the next question I have is what to do about it?

What Im saying is that I dont want to leave the church because of this...... like Rick Warren says..... there is far too much "church jumping" happening. There is too much up and leaving because of trivial issues going on. I would like to do something about this. But not in a harmful or demeaning way.

What would you do in this situation?
Personally I think you should meet with your pastor and talk with him privately of your concerns.
My heart aches right now because in my honest opinion I feel like the pastor pretty much handed those women over to satan. I will be praying for your situation if that is ok.

Dan Moran
Feb 7th 2008, 01:53 AM
No, it perhaps would not have been right for the pastor to ask them to leave the church right away. There is a process where the sin is made known to take them aside and counsel them according to scripture and make it known to them that the behavior is unacceptable and needs to end.

If they choose not to end, than you are to bring a witness with you and counsel again. If they choose not to listen the second time, then it should be brought before the entire congregation and it should be made known that the remainder of the congregation should have nothing more to do with them.

To allow them to remain in the church without properly counseling them in such fashion is to say you accept their behavior as being godly, which is entirely unscriptural and shouldn't be tolerated.

I read someone's post in here earlier today (I believe in another forum) stating that the believer understands that they sin, however; the difference is they are making every godly effort to refrain from doing so. You let these two continue with their present conduct you're generally saying that their behavior is entirely acceptable within the church.

,,,but where does that leave our love for God under these circumstances? :hmm:


LEVITICUS Chapter 18.

blueshadow
Feb 7th 2008, 02:44 AM
1 Corinthians 5 says that a man living in sin with his stepmother should be removed from the fellowship. It also says that the Corinthians should judge those inside the church who are sinning.

The Bible says homosexuality is wrong. This couple is openly living in sin and not repenting. Kicking this couple out of the church entirely is one thing, but I think it would be entirely reasonable to not allow them to be in leadership positions such as praise and worship team.

RobbieP
Feb 7th 2008, 03:00 AM
1Cor.5

[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
[6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leavened the whole lump?
[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:


The word makes it clear all over the place that somebody in open sin cannot be tolerated in the church. Nothing to do with them as much as the rest of the body..God is right, what about the children watching this behavior,elderly that are offended.......Folks, the Bible makes it clear..And I really think He knows what he is talking about...Our tolerance of sin is infiltrating churches...It's sad.
And members of the church and leaders, not good. Their guidelines call for a higher standard. It's wrong, God said it is.......and that's all folks!

MMC
Feb 7th 2008, 03:41 AM
Well, there aren't sufficient facts in the OP to know whether the action was appropriate under the circumstances. But there is a distinction between "judging" unbelievers for their sin, and disciplining within the church itself. When I became a member of the church I submitted to the discipline of the church. That means that when I call myself a believer - but continue to live openly and defiantly in sin - I am subject to the rebuke of my brothers and sisters in Christ, who have an obligation to hold me to account.

I think the passage from 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 is appropriate in this vein.

[9] "I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people - [10]not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. [11]But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. [12] What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? [13]God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you."

Paul is saying here that the church should not judge unbelievers for their sin - that is God's job. But when the church is tolerant of sin in its members it stops looking like a church and starts looking like the world. We are called to turn away from our sin and walk in the Spirit, in submission to the will of God.

The church is open to sinners of all kinds - all are welcome. But the church should not tolerate a "believer" who does not turn away from their sin. Christ would not tolerate it either.

JesusPhreak27
Feb 7th 2008, 03:56 AM
So do we feed them to the wolves so to speak? Do we just kick them out? When Jesus asked who needs a doctor, was He speaking of those who are free of the "major" sins?

Does this mean that if a man commits adultry that he should be asked to leave as well? What if a woman has an abortion?

The problem I have with your way of thinking is this: Jesus Christ came to earth to save the lost. Are we not a representation today? Are we not supposed to accept any and all that truly want to serve the Lord?

We are ALL sinners. I will guarentee you that I am not the only one who has skeletons in my closet. Since Im not a "perfect" Christian should I be asked to leave as well? What about a Pastor who has an ongoing battle with porn? Should they be asked to step down?

While in Afghanistan my Pastor there made a statement that I think fits VERY well in this situation.

He said the following: If only perfect people can do God's work, then God would get nothing accomplished here.

Dont you see? Were all flawed. But the awesome thing about God is that even though we all fall short of His glory He can still use us for the good of His Kingdom.

The problem with Christianity today, and to be honest, the reason the stigma that goes with the name Christian is so rightly deserved, is that we are the most judgmental group of people you will ever meet. Walk into any church in America and you will be face to face with a building full of hypocrites. We all do it....... "Oh look at those two....theyre gay......." While at the same time the person who is judging may be having an affair or battling a porn or drug addiction.

Who are we to judge? Galatians says we are to LOVE one another. James says that we are to leave judging up to God.

threebigrocks
Feb 7th 2008, 04:07 AM
So how ought to 1 Corinthians 5 be applied? If one is sinning, and doing so willfully, the least that ought to have happened is to put them out of their leadership role. If they continued to flaunt their relationship - indeed they ought to be put out of the church.

How can we go against scripture? What is right with God doesn't have to sit well with us.

threebigrocks
Feb 7th 2008, 04:10 AM
Paul is saying, in modern terms... one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. He's also saying that when a believer, living in sin, is confronted in this way, I can bring repentence.

Beware of the bad yeast, for it can spoil the whole lump.

JesusPhreak27
Feb 7th 2008, 04:13 AM
Ok....... I did fail to mention one probably very important aspect of this situation.

From my understanding (mind you I have only been going to this church for three years and they were there before I started) the Pastor had prior knowledge to them being a couple. So he had to of given his blessing to them joining in the first place.

Just thought I would toss that in to see where it leads the discussion.

Folks I am not saying that I believe that homosexuality is right. I personally believe it is wrong. But that being said......... I also beleve that it is between a person and God to work out your salvation. In fact doesnt Scripture say something to the effect of "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?"

Brother Mark
Feb 7th 2008, 04:19 AM
What Im trying to ask is this: Did the Pastor act in the right? I know that Paul says that we should not associate with the sexually immoral and that homosexuality is considered immoral. But is my wife correct when she said that the church of all places should be the most accepting place in the world? Should gay people be asked to leave the church?

Something in my soul is telling me that what the Pastor did is wrong. But Im just not sure.

Didn't you answer your own question? What did Paul say again? Is he wrong?

Look, if these folks are saying that homosexuality is OK and are living in open sin and rebellion, then scripture is very clear on the matter. 1 Cor. 5 goes into depth on how to deal with such a situation.

1 Cor 5

5 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges.REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
NASU

(The all caps at the end were not put there by me. It was that way in the bible I copied here.)

Paul said we should morn such a situation.

Now, if the two were hom*se*ual and in counseling to get free, that would be different. Were they endorsing their lifestyle or were they fighting to overcome it?

The process is clear. Confront one who is living in open sin. If they do not repent, take another. If they do not repent, then remove them from church. We just need to always remember that the removal from church is for the benefit of the one being removed not so we can have a "clean" church so to speak. It is important than in dealing with such a situation that all malice and wickedness be removed from our own heart before we move in such a situation at church. For a little leaven in the heart leavens the whole lump.

Blessings,

Mark

Geoff
Feb 7th 2008, 05:28 AM
If someone is living in open, unrepentant sin they have no right to be in a position of leadership. The pastor should have asked them to step down from the ministry but not to leave. If they said they would not stay unless thye could be in ministry then that is probably why they ended up leaving. Although the principles of excommunicaiton in 1 Corinthians do apply. The pastor may have handed them over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. If this is what he was doing then I'm sure he got a lot of flack but he's not wrong.

Athanasius
Feb 7th 2008, 05:31 AM
How much of a difference is there between asking (forcing?) them to leave to be 'handed over to Satan' and allowing them to lead worship and live unrepentant lives?
Now, that's assuming they were practicing hom*s*xuality and did not wish to be 'renewed' and turn from that lifestyle.

shamrock
Feb 7th 2008, 05:44 AM
Ok....... I did fail to mention one probably very important aspect of this situation.

From my understanding (mind you I have only been going to this church for three years and they were there before I started) the Pastor had prior knowledge to them being a couple. So he had to of given his blessing to them joining in the first place.

Just thought I would toss that in to see where it leads the discussion.

Folks I am not saying that I believe that homosexuality is right. I personally believe it is wrong. But that being said......... I also beleve that it is between a person and God to work out your salvation. In fact doesnt Scripture say something to the effect of "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling?"

You mentioned that these two ladies were getting a little bolder in displaying their relationship and this was the reason the pastor finally asked them to leave.

It seems to me that they were probably feeling more comfortable and therefore more open with their relationship. Now how does that happen unless the congregation is being accepting of their relationship. This is the problem. Christians are accepting their sin. Repentence does not come from acceptance. Think about it. You are accepting THEM out of love... not their sin. However, they don't see it that way. They believe that since you accept them, you are therefore accepting their sin as being okay, because this is who they are.
,
You said they have been going to this church longer than you have and you've been attending for 3 years. So they must be believer's, calling themselves Christians, or they wouldn't be there. However, they are living a lie and all those who hold to the idea that they shouldn't be kicked out because only God knows the heart are being blinded. People who sin openly and profess to be Christians, wear their hearts on their sleeves. We are to judge those in the Church and remove them when they refuse to repent. Maybe by doing this they will look at their sin and see it is wrong and repent. However, they will never do that as look as they feel accepted. Also, I believe, we are accountable to God if we don't. You may think it doesn't affect the body of Christ, but you've heard the old saying, "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch?" This is exactly what Paul was taking about. He condemned the members for NOT removing the man who was sinning openly and even approving of it.

Don't be decieved about this. Church is a gathering place for worship and edification and praise. At least that's how it was during new testament times. Have you read an scripture where believers were gathered together for worship and praise evangelizing during the gathering? Jesus said...

Mark 16:15
And He said to them, " Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

He didn't say go into my body... the world is outside the body.

This is how I understand it.

Blessings, Pat

Lefty
Feb 7th 2008, 06:55 AM
.

I agree.
It is not the healthy who need a doctor...but the sick.

Love the person hate the sin.

Exactly.

What is the pastor going to do now? Hire bouncers to keep them out? No position of responsiblility till they repent of course, but they should be allowed to attend services.

menJesus
Feb 7th 2008, 07:42 AM
I agree with the others in that they should have been removed from positions of leadership.

But kick them out outright? No. There are Bible guidelines to go by.

Brother Mark
Feb 7th 2008, 07:43 AM
I agree with the others in that they should have been removed from positions of leadership.

But kick them out outright? No. There are Bible guidelines to go by.

I Cor. 5 gives biblical guidelines for church discipline, i.e. removal from the fellowship of the church. Matt 18 also offers some guidelines but for a different kind of situation.

Diggindeeper
Feb 7th 2008, 07:54 AM
Where I go to church, they would never have become members to begin with.

Allowing them to stay in leadership is the same as condoning the lifestyle.

I'm with the Pastor, except it should have been done sooner. If this was a pair of serial killers, should they stay, and remain in leadership position, too? If this were a couple of pedifiles, should they stay, and remain in leadership position, too? Is this the "pattern" that the children of that congregation should pattern themselves after?

Revinius
Feb 7th 2008, 07:59 AM
.
Love the person hate the sin.

Ghandi said that, that phrase is unbiblical.


As for having unrepentant sinners in leadership positions in the church. I would say thats a big no no. They should be able to attend the church ofcourse but they cant teach or have authority in the church. As Christians we are known to each other by how we live and what we do, if a lesbian couple are unrepentantly 'married' and making no changes in their lives to alter this condition then they shouldnt have been made leaders in the first place.

Dan Moran
Feb 7th 2008, 08:38 AM
So do we feed them to the wolves so to speak? Do we just kick them out? When Jesus asked who needs a doctor, was He speaking of those who are free of the "major" sins?

Does this mean that if a man commits adultry that he should be asked to leave as well? What if a woman has an abortion?

The problem I have with your way of thinking is this: Jesus Christ came to earth to save the lost. Are we not a representation today? Are we not supposed to accept any and all that truly want to serve the Lord?

We are ALL sinners. I will guarentee you that I am not the only one who has skeletons in my closet. Since Im not a "perfect" Christian should I be asked to leave as well? What about a Pastor who has an ongoing battle with porn? Should they be asked to step down?

While in Afghanistan my Pastor there made a statement that I think fits VERY well in this situation.

He said the following: If only perfect people can do God's work, then God would get nothing accomplished here.

Dont you see? Were all flawed. But the awesome thing about God is that even though we all fall short of His glory He can still use us for the good of His Kingdom.

The problem with Christianity today, and to be honest, the reason the stigma that goes with the name Christian is so rightly deserved, is that we are the most judgmental group of people you will ever meet. Walk into any church in America and you will be face to face with a building full of hypocrites. We all do it....... "Oh look at those two....theyre gay......." While at the same time the person who is judging may be having an affair or battling a porn or drug addiction.

Who are we to judge? Galatians says we are to LOVE one another. James says that we are to leave judging up to God.
You need to get away from the 'major' sins 'minor' sins type of thinking. In God's eyes lying is being just as guilty as murder.

Yes, an adulterer should be spoken to as well. What kind of a witness do you think this is for the Lord Jesus Christ? Who coming to God would want what you have if you don't have any semblance of being different from those roaming the streets without God?

How does a homosexual serve the Lord when God has called the sin an abomination to him. It's clearly in writing, if that individual wants to serve the Lord and they will stop that which is the abomination before God.

We all have skeletons in our closet, however; those who walk according to the spirit of God, there is therefore no more condemnation. That is of the adversary of which this act of theirs is from: Romans 8:1.

To call homosexuality a godly act is to say that God Almighty has no purpose. It says that God Almighty is certainly imperfect because the science that God blessed the world with has determined God to be imperfect. That's a Catch 22.

Yes, I agree people even Christians can be very judgmental. "Yes, he's gay. He should be this..." God has given us the gospel. The Word of reconciliation. These people are already judged by God. It is your responsiblity to witness the accuracy of what God expects of these people's lives, not write it off as being humanly judgmental. This is your doctrine. This is your guideline. This is your instruction.

You're ignoring God's Word and making excuse for a sin that is a stumbling block to the preaching of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you choose to ignore the Word of God what good are you in preaching it to others? You don't know the right or the wrong of it according to God's counsel, so how then can you be representative to it?

Jesus Christ brought you out of the world by his blood. Given you new life in the spirit. Why is it your pastor teaches a worldy doctrine? This is not your calling to Christ. It doesn't represent God at all.

Brother Mark
Feb 7th 2008, 08:41 AM
So do we feed them to the wolves so to speak? Do we just kick them out? When Jesus asked who needs a doctor, was He speaking of those who are free of the "major" sins?

Does this mean that if a man commits adultry that he should be asked to leave as well? What if a woman has an abortion?

The problem I have with your way of thinking is this: Jesus Christ came to earth to save the lost. Are we not a representation today? Are we not supposed to accept any and all that truly want to serve the Lord?

We are ALL sinners. I will guarentee you that I am not the only one who has skeletons in my closet. Since Im not a "perfect" Christian should I be asked to leave as well? What about a Pastor who has an ongoing battle with porn? Should they be asked to step down?

While in Afghanistan my Pastor there made a statement that I think fits VERY well in this situation.

He said the following: If only perfect people can do God's work, then God would get nothing accomplished here.

Dont you see? Were all flawed. But the awesome thing about God is that even though we all fall short of His glory He can still use us for the good of His Kingdom.

The problem with Christianity today, and to be honest, the reason the stigma that goes with the name Christian is so rightly deserved, is that we are the most judgmental group of people you will ever meet. Walk into any church in America and you will be face to face with a building full of hypocrites. We all do it....... "Oh look at those two....theyre gay......." While at the same time the person who is judging may be having an affair or battling a porn or drug addiction.

Who are we to judge? Galatians says we are to LOVE one another. James says that we are to leave judging up to God.

Read 1 Cor 5. The answer is yes, we are to feed them to the wolves if they are totally unrepentant. Said another way, turn them over to Satan (the wolf) so that their body might be destroyed but their spirit saved.

menJesus
Feb 7th 2008, 08:51 AM
Many churches make a serious effort to keep the platform undefiled. This goes from the pastor on down. Pastor, deacons, elders, worship leaders, evangelists, speakers, the choir, right down to the pianist and organist.

Only God`s annointed - people who are saved and walking close and upright with the Lord - are to be there. ONLY.

angelus5370
Feb 7th 2008, 08:54 AM
Greetings my brothers and sisters in Christ!

I have a topic that I would like to hear your feedback on.

Today I had a meeting with the pastor of my church. We were going over a sermon God gave me to preach while in Afghanistan. After that we just started talking about miscelaneous things which eventually led to the topc Im posting about.

There is (was) a lesbian couple (I believe that they were "married") that attend(ed) my church here in North Dakota. They both played in the praise band, one was even the praise band leader. Apparently it was well known that they were a couple. They never let on to this..... no PDA or anything like that. While I was in Afghanistan, they apperently they started acting "too gay" and the pastor asked them to leave the church. I dont know what they did to become considered "too" gay, that wasnt talked about.

Later in the day I got back home and talked about what had happened to my wife. She was vividly upset over this (she had never met the women as she has only been attending this church for about a month or so). She made the comment that the pastor had no right to ask them to leave as they are God's children and sinners just the same as we are. For a while I tried to argue from the standpoint that possibly their actions adversly affected the congregation. But eventually found myself agreeing with her.

What Im trying to ask is this: Did the Pastor act in the right? I know that Paul says that we should not associate with the sexually immoral and that homosexuality is considered immoral. But is my wife correct when she said that the church of all places should be the most accepting place in the world? Should gay people be asked to leave the church?

Something in my soul is telling me that what the Pastor did is wrong. But Im just not sure.

I agree that they should not have been just thrown out of church, but definitely should have relinquished their leadership roles, however, JP says he had been out of town when this happened, so we don't know for sure if the pastor attempted to counsel them about their "situation?" For all we know he may have tried, and they let him know that they were not giving up their lifestyle? Who's to say, unless JP talks to the pastor, and gets the facts straight from the pastor himself, we don't know forsure what caused them to be taken out of the church.:confused

BrianW
Feb 7th 2008, 01:37 PM
I think that Christians should start worrying about their own walk first and foremost while giving aid and comfort to others when and how the Holy Spirit directs them.

Remember that Jesus said "Small is the gate and narrow the road the leads to life and few find it."


Give love not recriminations and false holier than thou judgments. Yes, we are to be discerning but we are to love first and foremost. Part of love is sometimes saying "Brother/Sister what you are doing is against the will of God.
I'll love you and be here for you and, above all, pray for you."
And then the rest up to God. he can do anything. ANYTHING. Even help the sexual deviants recover.

On the other hand. If Gays start to try and lead some kind of "Revolution" in a church to make us accept the lifestyle as right and proper they need to be removed asap.

threebigrocks
Feb 7th 2008, 02:15 PM
I think that Christians should start worrying about their own walk first and foremost while giving aid and comfort to others when and how the Holy Spirit directs them.

Remember that Jesus said "Small is the gate and narrow the road the leads to life and few find it."


Give love not recriminations and false holier than thou judgments. Yes, we are to be discerning but we are to love first and foremost. Part of love is sometimes saying "Brother/Sister what you are doing is against the will of God.
I'll love you and be here for you and, above all, pray for you."
And then the rest up to God. he can do anything. ANYTHING. Even help the sexual deviants recover.

On the other hand. If Gays start to try and lead some kind of "Revolution" in a church to make us accept the lifestyle as right and proper they need to be removed asap.

God is there for them - so long as they desire to follow him. Homosexuality is an abomination to God, and those who do follow in obedience must share the same view. We as the church either follow scripture and are of like mind or we aren't in unity.

Gentile
Feb 7th 2008, 02:52 PM
Greetings my brothers and sisters in Christ!

I have a topic that I would like to hear your feedback on.

Today I had a meeting with the pastor of my church. We were going over a sermon God gave me to preach while in Afghanistan. After that we just started talking about miscelaneous things which eventually led to the topc Im posting about.

There is (was) a lesbian couple (I believe that they were "married") that attend(ed) my church here in North Dakota. They both played in the praise band, one was even the praise band leader. Apparently it was well known that they were a couple. They never let on to this..... no PDA or anything like that. While I was in Afghanistan, they apperently they started acting "too gay" and the pastor asked them to leave the church. I dont know what they did to become considered "too" gay, that wasnt talked about.

Later in the day I got back home and talked about what had happened to my wife. She was vividly upset over this (she had never met the women as she has only been attending this church for about a month or so). She made the comment that the pastor had no right to ask them to leave as they are God's children and sinners just the same as we are. For a while I tried to argue from the standpoint that possibly their actions adversly affected the congregation. But eventually found myself agreeing with her.

What Im trying to ask is this: Did the Pastor act in the right? I know that Paul says that we should not associate with the sexually immoral and that homosexuality is considered immoral. But is my wife correct when she said that the church of all places should be the most accepting place in the world? Should gay people be asked to leave the church?

Something in my soul is telling me that what the Pastor did is wrong. But Im just not sure.

Your Pastor is a complete idiot. It is 2008! It amazes me how people are still so amazed by gays. They are people just like us, who cares if someone is gay or not.

Some people should not be christians they give our religion a bad name. Thats why I hate the christian church at times.

You soul is right telling you he did a bad thing, that dude is loser and shouldnt even be a pastor. This stuff just gets me heated at times.

Its like some people sill are living like its 1960 or something.

always
Feb 7th 2008, 02:52 PM
IMO it sounds like the pastor open up to them in hopes that the word would pierce their hearts to repentence.

It was a mistake to allow them to be leaders of anything (praise team) before this was accomplished. It gave them a false approval. That what they were doing was alright.

Them not wanting to lay down their lifestyle was reason enough to put them out the church. The pastor was correct in his actions.

The bible says it wrong, and it is along with everything else it says is wrong, if you have individuals who openy living together in sin without the benefit of marriage, the same would apply to them.

The word of God is not to be compromise, how are we going to be a witness of Christ to the world, if the world sees the same mess going on in the church:rolleyes:

Gentile
Feb 7th 2008, 02:57 PM
IMO it sounds like the pastor open up to them in hopes that the word would pierce their hearts to repentence.

It was a mistake to allow them to be leaders of anything (praise team) before this was accomplished. It gave them a false approval. That what they were doing was alright.

Them not wanting to lay down their lifestyle was reason enough to put them out the church. The pastor was correct in his actions.

The bible says it wrong, and it is along with everything else it says is wrong, if you have individuals who openy living together in sin without the benefit of marriage, the same would apply to them.

The word of God is not to be compromise, how are we going to be a witness of Christ to the world, if the world sees the same mess going on in the church:rolleyes:

Do you understand that people are born to be gay? Forget what the bible says that was written 2000 years ago. GOD is not going to punish someone for being gay, period! Don't you think GOD knew that there were going to be gay relationships. I am not gay btw. But I hate how the christian faith shuns gays, its racist and ignorant.

Seeker of truth
Feb 7th 2008, 03:09 PM
I have not read all the replies.

Are they in Church to turn away from their sin or are they comfortable in their sin? If they have a desire to trun away from sin and dedicate their life to Him they should be welcomed but of course counseled. If they have no desire to turn away from their sin perhaps they need to read the Word and pray more before returning to the Church.

If they seek counsel of course they should receive it.

always
Feb 7th 2008, 03:11 PM
Do you understand that people are born to be gay? Forget what the bible says that was written 2000 years ago. GOD is not going to punish someone for being gay, period! Don't you think GOD knew that there were going to be gay relationships. I am not gay btw. But I hate how the christian faith shuns gays, its racist and ignorant.

The bible was written by men inspired by God 2000 years ago. And
God is God, and He states that sin will not inherit heaven and will be punished, period!

I will not quote scriptures, since it's obvious you don't believe in them.

but one thing that you said infuriates me, to say that homosexuality is racist is a lie!

Racism is an powerful oppressive ignorance against people who are born different from the one in power.

Homosexuality IS A CHOICE, they choose to live that lifestyle. To liken their cause with the fight that minorities go through is an insult

The christian faith based on the christian principles that they believe on that come from the bible gives us the right and the responsibilty to stand against this nasty habit.

Gentile
Feb 7th 2008, 03:14 PM
Ok so if you are gay and only will be happy being gay and you repent because you think you are sinning for being gay and change your ways. Then you would be lonely and unhappy. Kind of sounds like something is wrong here.

So basically if you are gay you cant be religioius or have a relationship with GOD or Jesus?

I am just asking.


I think I need to leave this board its nothing but false info and alot of preaching how someone should live there lifes.

Seeker of truth
Feb 7th 2008, 03:18 PM
Ok so if you are gay and only will be happy being gay and you repent because you think you are sinning for being gay and change your ways. Then you would be lonely and unhappy. Kind of sounds like something is wrong here.

So basically if you are gay you cant be religioius or have a relationship with GOD or Jesus?

I am just asking.


I think I need to leave this board its nothing but false info and alot of preaching how someone should live there lifes.

God will deliver if one just asks. But to be delivered one has to believe. If we believe anything is possible in His name.

always
Feb 7th 2008, 03:22 PM
Ok so if you are gay and only will be happy being gay and you repent because you think you are sinning for being gay and change your ways. Then you would be lonely and unhappy. Kind of sounds like something is wrong here.

So basically if you are gay you cant be religioius or have a relationship with GOD or Jesus?

I am just asking.


I think I need to leave this board its nothing but false info and alot of preaching how someone should live there lifes.

I know you said forget about the bible, but the bible principle that is first and foremost is that in accepting Christ you must deny YOURSELF.

The habit of homosexuality makes happy only the flesh, true joy comes from allowing Christ in your life and allowing him to take you where you need to be spiritually.

Your decision to leave is yours, we love you, be courageous enough to explore something that can thrill your soul and not just your fleshy ideaology.

threebigrocks
Feb 7th 2008, 03:34 PM
I think I need to leave this board its nothing but false info and alot of preaching how someone should live there lifes.

That is what Christianity is. We don't live our lives how we think it should be. We live them how God expects us to using His Holy and inerrant Word and the Spirit to show us the way. Here and now means nothing if our hope is not fixed in faith for what is to come.

Gentile
Feb 7th 2008, 03:36 PM
I know you said forget about the bible, but the bible principle that is first and foremost is that in accepting Christ you must deny YOURSELF.

The habit of homosexuality makes happy only the flesh, true joy comes from allowing Christ in your life and allowing him to take you where you need to be spiritually.

Your decision to leave is yours, we love you, be courageous enough to explore something that can thrill your soul and not just your fleshy ideaology.

So do I have to deny my wife and son? Where do you draw the line? I understand what having a relationship with Christ is about. I understand not worshipping earthly things and the flesh. But if I love my or make love to my wife am I sinning?

threebigrocks
Feb 7th 2008, 03:38 PM
So do I have to deny my wife and son? Where do you draw the line? I understand what having a relationship with Christ is about. I understand not worshipping earthly things and the flesh. But if I love my or make love to my wife am I sinning?

If you are a woman, yes, you are to deny your "wife". God does not recognize that except to see it as sin.

If you are a man, no, never deny your wife.

RobbieP
Feb 7th 2008, 03:39 PM
So do we feed them to the wolves so to speak? Do we just kick them out? When Jesus asked who needs a doctor, was He speaking of those who are free of the "major" sins?

Does this mean that if a man commits adultry that he should be asked to leave as well? What if a woman has an abortion?

The problem I have with your way of thinking is this: Jesus Christ came to earth to save the lost. Are we not a representation today? Are we not supposed to accept any and all that truly want to serve the Lord?

We are ALL sinners. I will guarentee you that I am not the only one who has skeletons in my closet. Since Im not a "perfect" Christian should I be asked to leave as well? What about a Pastor who has an ongoing battle with porn? Should they be asked to step down?

While in Afghanistan my Pastor there made a statement that I think fits VERY well in this situation.

He said the following: If only perfect people can do God's work, then God would get nothing accomplished here.

Dont you see? Were all flawed. But the awesome thing about God is that even though we all fall short of His glory He can still use us for the good of His Kingdom.

The problem with Christianity today, and to be honest, the reason the stigma that goes with the name Christian is so rightly deserved, is that we are the most judgmental group of people you will ever meet. Walk into any church in America and you will be face to face with a building full of hypocrites. We all do it....... "Oh look at those two....theyre gay......." While at the same time the person who is judging may be having an affair or battling a porn or drug addiction.

Who are we to judge? Galatians says we are to LOVE one another. James says that we are to leave judging up to God.



Do you have scripture to support what you are saying? We are not judging,we are following the Lord's direction and Word. I am not judging people by eshewing evil and sin, I am staying away from it as God directed. I honor and respect my husband (well, I try :blush:) because the Word says to....We as individuals will fail, but a church's doctrine and by-laws need to be biblical.....and that is biblical....
If a man commits adultery and is repentent or a woman has an abortion and is repentent ....the bible says embrace them.........but if somebody continues in sin without remorse than it simply cannot be allowed. A little leaven wil spread.
It's sad that there are so many follks that see following His Word as second to 'getting along' and 'live and let live' . It really has been explained to me as showing grace...and I think we should show grace..I am not suggesting demeaning people in any way but gracefully explain that it is sin and can't continue if they are to fellowship with the church.

We, in our churches, are starting to sacrifice TRUTH in the name of GRACE...we are confused...............

always
Feb 7th 2008, 03:42 PM
So do I have to deny my wife and son? Where do you draw the line? I understand what having a relationship with Christ is about. I understand not worshipping earthly things and the flesh. But if I love my or make love to my wife am I sinning?



If she is your wife of course not! the marriage bed is undefiled, you are to be a loving father. But you are to not let any relationship keep you from obeying and do that thing that is right before God.

You and your household should worship God

Romans 8:39

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Dan Moran
Feb 7th 2008, 03:51 PM
Do you understand that people are born to be gay? Forget what the bible says that was written 2000 years ago. GOD is not going to punish someone for being gay, period! Don't you think GOD knew that there were going to be gay relationships. I am not gay btw. But I hate how the christian faith shuns gays, its racist and ignorant.
The Word was given by divine inspiration. I've heard many state that it was written by men, all with different opinions, etc. etc. You stated the Word of God is two thousand years old (some of it older than that), that statement alone tells me your outlook on the Word as it is already. I'm not going argue with you on your opinion of God's Word; but yet, since it is an opinion so would the statement of: "God is not going to punish someone for being gay, period!" end quote.

If you already believe God's Word is two thousand years out dated, how on earth will one expect you to accept it as truth? I certainly would not.

Since God does have foreknowledge, of course he knew who was going to chose their gay lifestyle. It would be silly for anyone to think otherwise, wouldn't it? If somone you knew told you they were about to commit murder it would seem you have an option at this point: You can talk them out of it, or you can approve of their decision to commit it and possiblity even encourage it. It would become a choice wouldn't it? Turn them into the law or help them out? Hmmm...What will I do?

So God has foreknowledge of one's decision to choose their sexual lifestyle. He clearly states its an abomination. Therefore, if one is gay and wants to follow God, he's going to make some changes in his life otherwise suffer the consequences of the decision to do otherwise.

But going back to your viewpoint of God's Word. Written two thousand years ago.

Yes...I know where you stand. :cry:

VerticalReality
Feb 7th 2008, 03:52 PM
I honestly do not understand why this is even up for debate. Scripture could not be more clear on this issue, and to be perfectly honest, I think this issue is why the church in America as a whole is about as lukewarm and ineffective as it is. The church today is entirely too tolerant of sin, and the church was never intended to be a place filled with folks living in sin and in rebellion to God and His Word.

Paul makes it perfectly clear that we are DEFINITELY to judge those inside the church. 1 Corinthians 5 could not be more crystal clear on this issue. If folks are in church and they are living in outright rebellion and sin against God, then we have a RESPONSIBILITY to judge those individuals and their actions. This is not only for our benefit but for theirs also. If they are allowed to remain in the church regardless of their actions then they will go on doing and believing whatever they want to, and this will only bring negative consequences to the church and the individuals living in this sin.

These folks in this particular example should have been confronted with this blatant sin, and the appropriate action if they refused to repent was to remove them from the church.

I don't know where folks today got the idea that Jesus Christ or the apostles were tolerant of sin, but if we're going to see a difference made in the current sad state of affairs within the American church, we're going to have to begin carrying out the direction given by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 5. Sin, under any circumstances, should never be tolerated in the church.

BrianW
Feb 7th 2008, 03:59 PM
So then the liars, fornicators, thieves, gossips, drunkards, glutenous, adulterers, divorce's (Who didn't follow the scripture) and probably some I forgot should be thrown out as well right?

VerticalReality
Feb 7th 2008, 04:00 PM
So then the liars, fornicators, thieves, gossips, drunkards, glutenous, adulterers, divorce's (Who didn't follow the scripture) and probably some I forgot should be thrown out as well right?

You are absolutely correct!

dljc
Feb 7th 2008, 04:02 PM
Do you understand that people are born to be gay? Forget what the bible says that was written 2000 years ago. GOD is not going to punish someone for being gay, period! Don't you think GOD knew that there were going to be gay relationships. I am not gay btw. But I hate how the christian faith shuns gays, its racist and ignorant.Prodigy,

When God created everything and created man to fellowship with Him. This is the account given in Genesis 1 when God created man.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

My question to you is this. How can two homosexuals fulfill this command? I'm not talking about adopting a child I'm talking about between themselves.

What you are failing to see is that when man fell, sin entered the world. God hasn't changed, man has.

The general consensus of this thread says the pastor went about this the wrong way. They should have been asked to step down from leadership, not thrown out completely just yet. As Brother Mark has pointed out we are to send them back out into the world if they are not willing to repent and be delivered from this sin. But make no mistake about it, it is sin, just as lying and being a drunk is. We are to imitate Christ in every way, we are to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh. You can't serve two masters.... Jesus allowed satan to come into Judas did He not?

always
Feb 7th 2008, 04:03 PM
So then the liars, fornicators, thieves, gossips, drunkards, glutenous, adulterers, divorce's (Who didn't follow the scripture) and probably some I forgot should be thrown out as well right?


If they are doing it openly, and have been confronted about it, and still with an unrepentive heart continue, Yes! you are correct

Athanasius
Feb 7th 2008, 04:05 PM
The church doesn't exist to cater to the unrepentant.


Do you understand that people are born to be gay? Forget what the bible says that was written 2000 years ago. GOD is not going to punish someone for being gay, period! Don't you think GOD knew that there were going to be gay relationships. I am not gay btw. But I hate how the christian faith shuns gays, its racist and ignorant.

Not to derail this thread. But there is absolutely no reason to believe that people are born gay.

Saved7
Feb 7th 2008, 04:07 PM
Should gay people be asked to leave the church?

.


If they are unrepentant of their sin, yes, just like the rest of us are expected to repent, so are they. Their sin doesn't get any special priveleges just because it's "politically incorrect" to speak against that behaviour. There are plenty of scriptures that back up what I am saying, that any who is in sin and they refuse to repent of it, they are to be cut off from the congregation until they repent. Living a lifestyle of homosexuality is a sign of unrepentance of that sin. However, if they were to choose to live seperately and divorce one another, yet they still had a broken heart over the situation, then they are at least TRYING to live a holy God glorifying life, so that would make them repentant.
If I were to have continued sleeping with a married man, would I have been allowed to continue calling myself a christian???? Would I have been been allowed to continue in my church, though I was flaunting it???? Doubtful.:cool:

A little leaven leaven's the WHOLE lump, this is why sin is rampant in the church here in the west, because we all think we shouldn't do anything about it.

Gentile
Feb 7th 2008, 04:25 PM
The church doesn't exist to cater to the unrepentant.



Not to derail this thread. But there is absolutely no reason to believe that people are born gay.

Step outside your faith and enter into some scientific facts. Scientists have proven that there is a cell membrane in the brain that can determine which sex you will most likely adapt to and have sexual feelings for. Actually this is old news 20/20 did a huge episode on this about 4 years ago. Yes you can be born gay.


So if you are gay are you going to hell?

always
Feb 7th 2008, 04:27 PM
Step outside your faith and enter into some scientific facts. Scientists have proven that there is a cell membrane in the brain that can determine which sex you will most likely adapt to and have sexual feelings for. Actually this is old news 20/20 did a huge episode on this about 4 years ago. Yes you can be born gay.


So if you are gay are you going to hell?

we are BORN AGAIN in Jesus Christ, for the sake of an arguement, if youre not, you going to hell, scientist are men who are wrong sometimes

Seeker of truth
Feb 7th 2008, 04:29 PM
If people could be born g@y I doubt if God would have called h@m@sexuality an abomination.

Saved7
Feb 7th 2008, 04:31 PM
Step outside your faith and enter into some scientific facts. Scientists have proven that there is a cell membrane in the brain that can determine which sex you will most likely adapt to and have sexual feelings for. Actually this is old news 20/20 did a huge episode on this about 4 years ago. Yes you can be born gay.


So if you are gay are you going to hell?


The bible also teaches that we are born under sin, that doesn't change the fact that we need to repent of it. And God is ABLE TO CHANGE ANY so called gene that causes us to like the same sex. That's what FAITH can do, not science.:saint:

Maybe stepping out of faith is a bad idea, maybe YOU need to step back INTO faith.:)

Tanya~
Feb 7th 2008, 04:38 PM
It is perfectly reasonable for a pastor to seek to do what Scripture commands him to do. Mark keeps bringing up 1 Cor 5, which is instruction for the pastor. If they repent they can and should be received back into the fellowship.

In this day and age there are some misconceptions about homosexuality. The Bible says it is unrighteousness, and those who practice it are excluded from/will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It does not make any sense to embrace as part of the body of Christ those who have not repented and who are disqualified from acceptance into the kingdom of God. Either we believe what God says in His word, or we don't believe it. The pastor is acting in such a way as to indicate he does believe it.

1 Cor 6 gives even more:


1 Cor 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Do not be deceived.

Dan Moran
Feb 7th 2008, 04:39 PM
Step outside your faith and enter into some scientific facts. Scientists have proven that there is a cell membrane in the brain that can determine which sex you will most likely adapt to and have sexual feelings for. Actually this is old news 20/20 did a huge episode on this about 4 years ago. Yes you can be born gay.


So if you are gay are you going to hell?
This one does not understand faith, therefore desires all to step out of it to understand where they are coming from through a scientific viewpoint. Science itself was given to man by God, but science will not prove God. Thus you have one who worships the creation instead of the Creator (Romans Chapter 1).

It is sad, but one of our mutual friends out here had begun a thread regarding spiritual growth or throwing pearls before the swine. I believe the Word of God teaches a Christian not to get involved in fruitless arguments does it not?

There doesn't seem to be anymore that can be said here that would convince one who desires all of you to step down out of your faith for a moment. :hmm:

Seeker of truth
Feb 7th 2008, 04:41 PM
Prodigy, I'd like to share something with you.

My daughter was molested by a woman when she was young. Before this happened she was dainty, curles, lace and ruffles. She wore dresses and played with dolls. She was a girly girl if I ever saw one.

After she was molested she slowly (over several years) started to look, act and dress like a boy. We didn't have a clue as to why. She had gotten to the point she insisted she was a boy. She finally disclosed about the molestation and that she was under the assumption that if another female had touched her like that she must be g@y.

Since we know why this has been happening we have been able to help her. She is now 12 and is starting to be a bit more femanine. She has been counseled by both Clergy and a Psychologist. The fact she is BiPolar has complicated things a bit.

This is proof to me that gender issues and h@m@sexuality are a choice. It was easier for her to be a boy than to deal with what had been done to her. The Lord is so Good. With the Faith she has I am confident she will overcome her past and live for the future even if she has a long road ahead of her.

VerticalReality
Feb 7th 2008, 04:44 PM
Step outside your faith and enter into some scientific facts. Scientists have proven that there is a cell membrane in the brain that can determine which sex you will most likely adapt to and have sexual feelings for. Actually this is old news 20/20 did a huge episode on this about 4 years ago. Yes you can be born gay.


So if you are gay are you going to hell?

Did you, as a self-proclaimed Christian, really just tell someone to "step outside their faith"? Since when does "scientific facts" trump the Word of God and this faith that us Christians hold to? Brother/sister you might want to re-examine who it is you serve. Do you serve the world and its "facts" or do you serve the Living God and His Word? This faith has no room for the double-minded. You either believe it or you don't, and there is no in between.

However, to address your "scientific facts", you might want to do a little more research because they absolutely HAVE NOT proven that a person is born gay.

Gentile
Feb 7th 2008, 04:52 PM
If people could be born g@y I doubt if God would have called h@m@sexuality an abomination.


Why do use @ as o's?

Seeker of truth
Feb 7th 2008, 04:54 PM
So it doesn't show up on searches.

Gentile
Feb 7th 2008, 04:54 PM
This one does not understand faith, therefore desires all to step out of it to understand where they are coming from through a scientific viewpoint. Science itself was given to man by God, but science will not prove God. Thus you have one who worships the creation instead of the Creator (Romans Chapter 1).

It is sad, but one of our mutual friends out here had begun a thread regarding spiritual growth or throwing pearls before the swine. I believe the Word of God teaches a Christian not to get involved in fruitless arguments does it not?

There doesn't seem to be anymore that can be said here that would convince one who desires all of you to step down out of your faith for a moment. :hmm:


Some of you are so close minded it's pathetic.


See ya.

Tanya~
Feb 7th 2008, 04:54 PM
I don't believe it's been proven people are 'born gay.' But even if it were, all of us are born in sin, all of us have the inclination to sin, and some are more inclined in one direction than another. Just because someone has a strong inclination toward a particular sin doesn't mean God will not judge them for it if they refuse to repent. If He has warned us against it then we must choose if we will believe Him and repent, or not.

If you reject God's word, you need to realize that you are rejecting Him.

It takes courage and conviction for a pastor to make a move like this one did. I pray that the Lord will give him strength to guide the congregation according to the will of God and not the will of man which will lead to destruction.

dljc
Feb 7th 2008, 04:55 PM
Guys and Gals,

The thread is about what should or shouldn't have been done in this case. If you have anything more to add to the topic, please do. But please keep on topic otherwise the thread will be closed. The debate over homo$exuality has been and is discussed elsewhere on the board. Please address the original question.

Seeker of truth
Feb 7th 2008, 04:56 PM
Some of you are so close minded it's pathetic.


See ya.

Not closed minded. We believe the Word.

Did you even read the very personal post I shared in an attempt to help you to understand things?

always
Feb 7th 2008, 04:59 PM
Some of you are so close minded it's pathetic.


See ya.


Father, I pray that Prodigy's will be changed, Lord, you force nothing upon us, you let us freely choose, so Lord I pray that his will be changed, give him spiritual insight, open his ears and his mind. In your precious son's Jesus Name I pray

The pastor was right

dljc
Feb 7th 2008, 05:04 PM
I think this thread needs to be closed for a bit, if not permanently. I'd like to ask everyone to take a breather, and maybe we can reopen this for discussion later. But at the moment it looks to be going downhill.