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Fisher
Feb 7th 2008, 04:36 PM
Hi Folks,

I have an issue that has been nagging at me for some time now. Maybe some of you could help.

I was young when I first got married and I wasn’t a Christian yet. My first marriage was not in a Catholic church, BUT my ex, who was married before I met her, was.
Now, years down the road I meet my current wife and we did not get married in a Catholic church, BUT she did with her first husband when she was young.

So, now that I am divorced and re-married and have become a Christian the story unfolds.

Because my ex and my current wife and her ex were married in a Catholic Church, the Catholic Church may not allow me to receive my sacraments.

Maybe they will but here is the situation……..My ex and my current wife’s ex won’t hear of an annulment. Neither are practicing Christians and all of us are about estranged by now. All of this happened a long time ago.

Here’s what gets me about this:

I wasn’t a Christian when I was married for my first or second time. I found Christ afterwards. So, I want to join my local Catholic Church and it looks like it “might” be a hassle. I don’t know why this would stop me from joining, but it seems there are extenuating circumstances that could be worked out to allow me to enter the Church.

Anybody have any ideas or help?

God Bless,
Fisher

9Marksfan
Feb 7th 2008, 04:46 PM
Hi Fisher

Please remember that this is a Protestant Forum and you are unlikely to get advice about getting to take the sacraments in the RC church. There are however a few RCs on the Boards and they may answer you.

My question would be this - you don't appear to have been a practising Catholic before you became a Christian yet you seem to want to be one now? I really do find that hard to understand - is there something about Bible believing Protestant churches with born again Christians in them that you don't enjoy?

There are threads on remarriage on the Board but I think that there may be a bigger issue here than wanting to join the RCC.

Can I ask you to give a brief testimony of how you became a Christian?

Thanks.

Nigel

Fisher
Feb 7th 2008, 05:49 PM
Hi Fisher

Please remember that this is a Protestant Forum and you are unlikely to get advice about getting to take the sacraments in the RC church. There are however a few RCs on the Boards and they may answer you.

My question would be this - you don't appear to have been a practising Catholic before you became a Christian yet you seem to want to be one now? I really do find that hard to understand - is there something about Bible believing Protestant churches with born again Christians in them that you don't enjoy?

There are threads on remarriage on the Board but I think that there may be a bigger issue here than wanting to join the RCC.

Can I ask you to give a brief testimony of how you became a Christian?

Thanks.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

I hope you are doing well.

Thanks for the advice. I didn't know this was a Protestant Forum and if my mentioning the CC offended anyone I am deeply sorry. I thought it was a general "Christian Forum". One thing I know is for sure my friend............
I am a Christian, a follower of Christ and will remain that way.
I looked into the CC because I grew up with it and it was what my family on both sides practiced, so it is what I started to pursue after becomming a follower of Christ.
I have been a Christian for 4 years now, was baptised at birth, and my mother and father fell away from the faith when I was young, leaving me to find my own way back. I have a testimony to give and I will in time. I am not sure exactly where I stand right now in the way of religious organization, but I DO know I want to be around Christians.
As to the question of orders.............
All who believe in Christ are my dear family, and I hope that doesn't change anything.
All the best to you,
Fisher

Athanasius
Feb 7th 2008, 06:01 PM
Hi Folks,

I have an issue that has been nagging at me for some time now. Maybe some of you could help.

I was young when I first got married and I wasn’t a Christian yet. My first marriage was not in a Catholic church, BUT my ex, who was married before I met her, was.
Now, years down the road I meet my current wife and we did not get married in a Catholic church, BUT she did with her first husband when she was young.

So, now that I am divorced and re-married and have become a Christian the story unfolds.

Because my ex and my current wife and her ex were married in a Catholic Church, the Catholic Church may not allow me to receive my sacraments.

Maybe they will but here is the situation……..My ex and my current wife’s ex won’t hear of an annulment. Neither are practicing Christians and all of us are about estranged by now. All of this happened a long time ago.

Here’s what gets me about this:

I wasn’t a Christian when I was married for my first or second time. I found Christ afterwards. So, I want to join my local Catholic Church and it looks like it “might” be a hassle. I don’t know why this would stop me from joining, but it seems there are extenuating circumstances that could be worked out to allow me to enter the Church.

Anybody have any ideas or help?

God Bless,
Fisher


To be honest, I would try looking at different churches, not just the Catholic church. You haven't offended anyone here, and I don't mean to offend you, but the Catholic church has some pretty crazy teachings when it comes to things like this (holding back sacraments?!).

As Nigel said, this is a predominately Protestant board, though we do have a few RCC members who post and may be able to give you a more appropriate response.

KATA_LOUKAN
Feb 7th 2008, 06:04 PM
Thanks for the advice. I didn't know this was a Protestant Forum and if my mentioning the CC offended anyone I am deeply sorry. I thought it was a general "Christian Forum". One thing I know is for sure my friend............


You didnt offen anyone. Although if you are divorced, having been married one time, the Catholic church will not remarry you. You cannot participate in the sacraments.

If you want to receive sacraments, you must get an annulment (your wife must too).

But you might want to think twice about entering the catholic church. I know im a little biased, being a protestant, but you should do some research before entering the catholic church.

Theophilus
Feb 7th 2008, 06:07 PM
... this is a predominately Protestant board....
Actually, this is not predominately a Protestant board...it is a Protestant board, period. ;) We have members of differing faith backgrounds, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a board for Protestant discussion

This thread can stay where it only as long as it does not push Roman Catholic doctrine, and as long as everyone is civil.

The OP does not have enough time here to be allowed to post in "World Religions"...so just keep the rules in mind.

...and by the way, this is the Bible Chat forum, so unless we get some Bible content in here (hint, hint), this thread may be move elsewhere anyway. :D

Theophilus
Feb 7th 2008, 06:12 PM
All believers in Christ are members of the "catholic" church, as catholic just means the "universal" church of believers...i.e., the Body of Christ, or the true capital "c" Church. The distinction is when we start discussing the Roman Catholic church. I have no problem with either the Apostle's Creed or the Nicene Creed, which both declare belief in the "holy catholic church"...but that doesn't mean the holy Roman catholic church.

Dig it?:)

Just for clarification purposes, posters.

Athanasius
Feb 7th 2008, 06:14 PM
Actually, this is not predominately a Protestant board...it is a Protestant board, period. ;)

Psh, knock me more :P

Fisher
Feb 7th 2008, 06:23 PM
Well,

After reading all of the feedback on this one I want to thank you all for your support, time and efforts.

The "main" reason I have not joined the RCC is because there are alot of issues that contradict what I have read in the Gospels.
Certain issues just don't go over well with me, and if I am going to lead this following, I want to do it the correct way, which is the way of the truth.
I could list alot of the things here that I totally disagree with conerning the RCC, but I don't want to cause anymore out of place debate. If it is welcomed, then I will.
Just to clear the record...........as it stands now:
I am a Christian, and do not belong to the RCC or any other organizational order right now.
I hope that doesn't change anything with my status here, because you folks are great people.
Blessings to you all,
Fisher

Buck shot
Feb 7th 2008, 09:55 PM
2 Tim 1:8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Now there are verses here!

Howdy Fisher,
Believe me there is no offence taken! And I can say from reading a lot of these folks post most if not all did not intend any hard feelings.

Sounds like you are new to the different teachings of the churches. As was already said the universal (catholic) church belongs to Jesus and all the saved will be together one day no matter what church denomination they are affiliated with here.
Here is where it gets into opinion. The roman catholic church belongs to the pope.
Now back to fact. From the verses above and many others in the scriptures we find that salvation is not by works at all (a real big period here). Sacraments are things you do which the RCC teach to have saving merit. In the Bible we find that nothing we do has saving merit.
The other thing that really throws a wrench into the foundational teaching of RCC is the infant baptism. If works do not get you in to heaven then why baptise a baby that does not understand even what you are doing. The water baptism does not play a part in salvation. This is proven by the thief on the cross beside Jesus. Jesus told the new convert that he would be with Him in paradise. Why, because while the crowd and the guy on the other cross was verbally abusing our Savior, this sinner said He had done nothing to deserve this, called Him Lord, and asked Him to remember him in His kingdom. It was a conversion of the sinners heart. He knew he deserved the punishment, Jesus did not, and he knew Jesus was the Lord!

Brother, find you a church that is more than a group with a name. Find you a church that is a family that will encourage you to get in God's Word and study and grow to be more like Him. You will find that if you and your wife are truly seeking God there is a church that will accept you with open arms without judging you for your past. And they will help hold you accountable for your future. He has a job for each of His children to do, that's why He called you "according to His own purpose".

Seek God's guidence for a Bible teaching church and not a man's rule teaching church!

Sold Out
Feb 7th 2008, 10:10 PM
You didnt offen anyone. Although if you are divorced, having been married one time, the Catholic church will not remarry you. You cannot participate in the sacraments.

If you want to receive sacraments, you must get an annulment (your wife must too).

But you might want to think twice about entering the catholic church. I know im a little biased, being a protestant, but you should do some research before entering the catholic church.

Great advice. It's seems easier to lean towards what's familiar, but that doesn't mean it's right. God will hold us responsible for who/what we place ourselves under spriitually.

Tanya~
Feb 7th 2008, 10:18 PM
Hi Fisher,

The first and most obvious answer would be that you should go to the parish and talk to the priest. If your situation would prevent you from practicing the Catholic religion then you would need to make some decisions about what you should do next.

Your situation reminds me when my husband and I were about to be married. Neither of us were following the Lord, but he was raised a Catholic and I was willing to become one so we could have a nice church wedding. But because of our address, we wouldn't be able to marry in the church we thought we would be attending. We ended up getting married in a Baptist church. Shortly afterwards we both received Christ and were baptized. In my situation we can clearly see that God actually was working to lead us away from the Catholic church. Maybe the obstacles you're facing will work in your best interests, in the end.

:)

markedward
Feb 7th 2008, 11:31 PM
If a church has to sign papers or have an individual of "authority" tell you that all of your wrongs have been righted, then don't join it. The only one who can hold you back from doing something that will bring you closer to God is Jesus Himself. He is your only mediator to God.


For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,If you want to be a part of the Catholic Church, that's up to you. But for them to disallow you from taking part in a sacrament (the Eucharist, for example), it is not up to them to tell you that you can't do it.

I'll tell you one thing, most non-Catholic churches will welcome you with open arms despite that you and your wife had gotten divorces in the past. Jesus said divorce was wrong (Matthew 19:9), as you probably know, but if your heart has already gone to Him in forgiveness (not to the church), then He has forgiven you and the matter shouldn't be brought up again. In that case, the wrongs have been righted.

Fisher
Feb 8th 2008, 02:28 AM
Hi everyone,

I hope you are all well.
I really am thankful for your support in this case because sometimes I am confused and I need to learn more about the entirety of the orders.
For 4 years now, I have just labeled myself a Christian.....period.
I really didn't care who mocked me or what each group of religous party thought, as I was a follower of Christ and that was where it ended.
In fact, when I registered on this forum and I checked off the "Yes, I am a Christian", that about said it all to me.

Now, here we go with a couple of issues..............................

My problems are these (Among many others).
1. Salvation is not through works.
Luke:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.


Matthew 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is known to be my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly be rewarded."

There are so many places in the bible where Jesus says outright that he forgave the sins and promised reward to those who showed the spirit through their actions. Look at these passages. Jesus himself said these things............


2. Without an anulment you can't enter the RCC.

John: 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."


I didn't even know Christianity when I was married young and had to get a divorce. Why would Christ Himself forgive someone slated for death who knew what sin was, yet men tell me I am not excused. Jesus didn't do that. It's right there in his words.

On Divorce:

Matthew: 32 but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress

Well, my ex wife was unfaithful to me constantly, and that's why the divorce occured. It seems, as this being the words of Jesus, that I am not in the wrong, so why the persecution?

Praying:

Matthew: 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

This is instruction from the mouth of Jesus Himself, so up until this point, that is what I do. I know there are passages that say non-corresponding statements to these, but it is hard for me to argue with what has been said.
All in all, I guess the bottom line is I am a Christian, and that in itself is salvation.

Thank you one and all for your help and support.
I am sure there will be more to follow...........

All of my best to you and prayers to all,
Fisher

Tanya~
Feb 8th 2008, 03:35 AM
Well, my ex wife was unfaithful to me constantly, and that's why the divorce occured. It seems, as this being the words of Jesus, that I am not in the wrong, so why the persecution?

Who is persecuting you? Those who are giving you trouble are the ones who should give you their reasons. If you want to join a Catholic Church because you believe what it teaches, then you need to speak to the priest of your local parish about it. What kinds of discussions have you had with the priest?

threebigrocks
Feb 8th 2008, 04:12 AM
Let me ask you this. Is there a need to belong to a particular denomination, just to belong?

Ephesians 4


1Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,

2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, 3being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.


The Spirit knows no boundaries, only the hearts of men. Boundaries of men and their differences don't factor in.

And, in Christ's own words:

John 17


22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24"Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.


Unity, love. This was His prayer to the Father. Not seperation.

Fisher
Feb 8th 2008, 03:03 PM
Good morning all,

This sentance and question sums up my very feeling:

threebigrocks Quote" Let me ask you this. Is there a need to belong to a particular denomination, just to belong?" Quote

The answer is no.
I don't need to belong whatsoever, and I think that is how I need to keep it for now..................

There are just to many different groups with to many different opinions.

I just need to belong to Christ.

Thanks for the help, and God Bless you all.
Fisher

Sold Out
Feb 8th 2008, 03:06 PM
I just need to belong to Christ.


And there you have it my friend! You owe no one except the One who saved you!

Buck shot
Feb 8th 2008, 05:30 PM
Now, here we go with a couple of issues..............................

My problems are these (Among many others).
1. Salvation is not through works.
Luke:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.


Matthew 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is known to be my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly be rewarded."

There are so many places in the bible where Jesus says outright that he forgave the sins and promised reward to those who showed the spirit through their actions. Look at these passages. Jesus himself said these things............



Fisher

Howdy again Fisher,
I am glad you are looking these things up! I will just address the first issue maybe someone else will help with the others. My time is short today. If you notice in the verses from Luke you used Jesus said her sins were forgiven because of her "LOVE" not because of her work. You are right about the rewards also. We will be rewarded for our good works works but He does not tie salvation to the works. Our works should be proof or evidence of our salvation we have received by grace through faith.


Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I have never received a gift I had to pay for. If so, I would have been buying it and it was not a gift, maybe only a good deal. Jesus don't deal, He pays in FULL!

:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp:pp
Got to go....

9Marksfan
Feb 9th 2008, 07:55 PM
If you notice in the verses from Luke you used Jesus said her sins were forgiven because of her "LOVE" not because of her work.

I have never received a gift I had to pay for. If so, I would have been buying it and it was not a gift, maybe only a good deal. Jesus don't deal, He pays in FULL!

Amen to the last part, but surely what you're saying means that the woman earned her forgiveness through her love for Jesus?

What Jesus is saying is that she is SHOWING that she is forgiven by her love - this is clear from the next verse - it doesn't say "He who loves little is forgiven little"!

Love is the fruit of forgiveness - not the root!

Buck shot
Feb 11th 2008, 08:08 PM
Amen to the last part, but surely what you're saying means that the woman earned her forgiveness through her love for Jesus?

What Jesus is saying is that she is SHOWING that she is forgiven by her love - this is clear from the next verse - it doesn't say "He who loves little is forgiven little"!

Love is the fruit of forgiveness - not the root!

Good Job 9Marksfan!;) You hit the nail on the head. I was not to clear and probably should not have answered in a rush. If we read a little further Jesus does as usual and clears everything up when He says...

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

weggl
Mar 19th 2008, 06:38 AM
Men can't absolve you from anything. if you have accepted the Lord you are allready absolved. Jesus came to set us free not put us into bondage to religion. the ones Jesus had the most trouble with were those religious ones, ones with their rules and regulations.
Go where you feel most at home and be free. remember that the Church are the people not a religious organisation. we can't go to church when we congergrate we bring the church into the building.
Weggl

Servant89
Apr 15th 2008, 10:06 PM
Jer 3:8 states God is not married, nor single, he is divorced.

Is he allowed in to minister to the church being divorced?

Are we allowed to marry him (the church is his bride)?

Read John chapter 4 and see why Jesus said that he had to pass through Samaria (to find a woman married 5 times and living in sin that was very valuable to his kingdom).

Roelof
Apr 16th 2008, 07:53 AM
I will pray for you.

revrobor
Apr 16th 2008, 05:39 PM
Hello Fisher:

Why in the world would you want to join ANY church let alone the Roman Catholic church? It's no big deal if the Roman Catholic church won't let you play their game. Their is no salvation (and from what I've seen, very little inspiration) in the Roman Catholic church. Your teaching would consist of what that church says is right whether or not it agrees with Scripture as they believe they have the right to make up their own truths. Frankly there is no salvation in any religious institution ("church"). While the Bible teaches us to not ignore gathering with other believers that can be done anywhere (homes, work, parks, etc.). If you feel the need to participate in a church there are many non-denominational churches out there many of which will allow a Believer to take communion without even becoming a "member".

Teke
Apr 16th 2008, 07:24 PM
An alternative would be a Byzantine church. They are eastern but aligned under the Roman patriarchate which accommodates them with a separate set of canons from the western ones (RC). I am an Eastern Orthodox, so I'm aware of the differences.

I can't find any fault with someone who honors their father and mother even in religion. And there are what would be termed "catholic" in the liturgical sense in Protestantism, such as Lutherans, Methodist and the like.

God be with you as you work this out. The Lord has made a way, you just need to find it.:saint:

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,



Psa 149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.

Jerome1
Apr 18th 2008, 02:18 AM
Hi Fisher, you aren't being singled out by the catholic church because you were married before. You are also not allowed to receive the Eucharist if you have committed a mortal sin, this includes lots of things.

If someone commits a mortal sin they are meant to go to confession first before they receive the Eucharist. In you and your wifes case you cannot receive the Eucharist because your first marriages have not been annulled. You have to get an anullment from the catholic church before you can receive the Eucharist.

I hope this answers your question.

SunnyE
Apr 18th 2008, 03:15 AM
The Catholic Church has some work to do in Canada.
The Pope's visit wasn't mentioned in today's Toronto Sun
paper until page 14. Got half a page.

Athanasius
Apr 18th 2008, 03:28 AM
Jer 3:8 states God is not married, nor single, he is divorced.

Is he allowed in to minister to the church being divorced?

Are we allowed to marry him (the church is his bride)?

Read John chapter 4 and see why Jesus said that he had to pass through Samaria (to find a woman married 5 times and living in sin that was very valuable to his kingdom).

Exactly! There is this terrible stigma in the church surrounding those who are divorced, we treat them as second class citizens when in Jeremiah God Himself writes Israel a certificate of divorce. Jesus, after all, didn't change any of the Law concerning divorce. Someone should write a book. . .