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Partaker of Christ
Feb 8th 2008, 12:15 AM
I thought that since some appear so keen, to exclude others from entering the kingdom, by pointing out certain sins (and they are sins), let us discuss something that would challenge most all of us.


Will those who shut up their bowels of compassion, go to heaven?

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Sold Out
Feb 8th 2008, 03:09 PM
I thought that since some appear so keen, to exclude others from entering the kingdom, by pointing out certain sins (and they are sins), let us discuss something that would challenge most all of us.


Will those who shut up their bowels of compassion, go to heaven?

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

In my opinion, this scripture is speaking to the saved, so yes, they would go to heaven. But they would probably feel like they've been to hell once they stand before their Savior and answer for their lack of compassion!

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." II Cor 5;10

Brother Mark
Feb 8th 2008, 04:24 PM
I thought that since some appear so keen, to exclude others from entering the kingdom, by pointing out certain sins (and they are sins), let us discuss something that would challenge most all of us.


Will those who shut up their bowels of compassion, go to heaven?

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John is written so that we might know if we are in the family of believers or not. So this is a good warning to someone who lacks in compassion. If God is inside of you, and his love is in you, you will be compassionate on some level.

It's a good test to see if one is a member of the family or not.

menJesus
Feb 8th 2008, 08:53 PM
Since the 1st and 2nd commandments are talking about love for God and love of God, I think a person with no compassion is breaking these commandments.

My heart's Desire
Feb 9th 2008, 06:01 AM
I thought that since some appear so keen, to exclude others from entering the kingdom, by pointing out certain sins (and they are sins), let us discuss something that would challenge most all of us.


Will those who shut up their bowels of compassion, go to heaven?

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

That's almost like asking do those who give to the poor, build houses free for others, feeds the hungry, gives their possessions to others, lends money freely, lets others have their house after they've paid for it, etc etc go to heaven?
It still all goes back to how does one become saved.

Naphal
Feb 9th 2008, 06:40 AM
I thought that since some appear so keen, to exclude others from entering the kingdom, by pointing out certain sins (and they are sins), let us discuss something that would challenge most all of us.


Will those who shut up their bowels of compassion, go to heaven?

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Some will say that homosexual Christians aren't real Christians and therefore aren't their brethren and they do not need to have compassion for them.

Athanasius
Feb 9th 2008, 06:51 AM
Some will say that homosexual Christians aren't real Christians and therefore aren't their brethren and they do not need to have compassion for them.

Some will say that unrepentant homosexual Christians aren't real Christians.
Then again, they wouldn't be calling themselves 'homosexual Christians'--they would be saying they are Christians which struggle with the sin of homosexuality.

ImmenseDisciple
Feb 9th 2008, 01:04 PM
Love your neighbour, not just your brother. It doesn't matter if someone is Christian or not, we should have compassion for absolutely everyone.

Brother Mark
Feb 9th 2008, 05:49 PM
Some will say that homosexual Christians aren't real Christians and therefore aren't their brethren and they do not need to have compassion for them.

That's not very accurate. Compassion would mean to tell them of a better way. "Loving" someone to hell is not really compassionate.

Besides, scripture clearly says there will be no homosexuals, liars, fornicators, etc. in heaven.

Naphal
Feb 9th 2008, 10:47 PM
That's not very accurate. Compassion would mean to tell them of a better way. "Loving" someone to hell is not really compassionate.

Besides, scripture clearly says there will be no homosexuals, liars, fornicators, etc. in heaven.

Ever hear of repentance and forgiveness? Heaven won't have any sinners in it yet everyone that goes to heaven has been a sinner before.

threebigrocks
Feb 9th 2008, 11:38 PM
Ever hear of repentance and forgiveness? Heaven won't have any sinners in it yet everyone that goes to heaven has been a sinner before.

Galatians 5


17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


If the flesh is against the Spirit, and the flesh wins out as mentioned above, is the person under the Spirit of grace or not? It says that they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Sounds like if a homosexual continues on in their lifestyle driven by the flesh they are in a bit of trouble with their salvation.

Naphal
Feb 10th 2008, 12:59 AM
Galatians 5


If the flesh is against the Spirit, and the flesh wins out as mentioned above, is the person under the Spirit of grace or not? It says that they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Sounds like if a homosexual continues on in their lifestyle driven by the flesh they are in a bit of trouble with their salvation.

Only if they do not repent and confess their sins before God. Having sins and weaknesses doesn't equal trouble with their salvation as all of us sin through our lives and one sin is is just as bad as another as far as salvation is concerned.

threebigrocks
Feb 10th 2008, 01:44 AM
Only if they do not repent and confess their sins before God. Having sins and weaknesses doesn't equal trouble with their salvation as all of us sin through our lives and one sin is is just as bad as another as far as salvation is concerned.

Agreed, if they do not repent meaning turning from it. Just as we all must turn from our sin through repentance.

If we do not repent, no matter our sin, by denying the flesh, it can indeed put our salvation in jeopardy if we are not sincere. One who does sincerely repent is forgiven.

Naphal
Feb 10th 2008, 01:46 AM
Agreed, if they do not repent meaning turning from it. Just as we all must turn from our sin through repentance.

If we do not repent, no matter our sin, by denying the flesh, it can indeed put our salvation in jeopardy if we are not sincere. One who does sincerely repent is forgiven.


Even if that has to occur over and over on a daily basis. There is no limit on how many times we can repent of our sins. Not all can "turn from" our sins and never commit them again.

threebigrocks
Feb 10th 2008, 01:54 AM
Even if that has to occur over and over on a daily basis. There is no limit on how many times we can repent of our sins. Not all can "turn from" our sins and never commit them again.

It becomes an issue when we dismiss grace, sinning willfully over and over again thinking just asking for forgiveness will keep us upright. Moving further from sin should be a nautral part of spiritual maturity.

Naphal
Feb 10th 2008, 01:58 AM
It becomes an issue when we dismiss grace, sinning willfully over and over again thinking just asking for forgiveness will keep us upright. Moving further from sin should be a nautral part of spiritual maturity.

Yet we cannot place limits on God's forgiveness either. We are commanded to forgive each other 7x70 if someone repents to us. Does God expect us to be more forgiving than he is?

threebigrocks
Feb 10th 2008, 02:03 AM
No, we cannot. But there does come a time where God will simply see a person cry wolf. Their heart is not after God's desires and commands.

Our God is a God of love, mercy, lovingkindness and compassion without a doubt. If we have a heart which seeks Him, we are forgiven if we repent.

Naphal
Feb 10th 2008, 02:07 AM
No, we cannot. But there does come a time where God will simply see a person cry wolf. Their heart is not after God's desires and commands.

Our God is a God of love, mercy, lovingkindness and compassion without a doubt. If we have a heart which seeks Him, we are forgiven if we repent.

God always knows the heart. Knows when it is sincere, knows when it is weak, knows when it is lying.

threebigrocks
Feb 10th 2008, 02:09 AM
God always knows the heart. Knows when it is sincere, knows when it is weak, knows when it is lying.


Very true .

Naphal
Feb 10th 2008, 02:10 AM
I also want to comment in that most sins IMO are committed willfully and knowingly. Most of us know when something is wrong and yet we choose it anyways. I think it's more rare when someone sins accidentally or through deception or some other means beyond their control. Adam sinned knowingly and was punished for it. Eve sinned but was deceived and yet she too was punished so even between these two I don't see any difference in the resulting punishment.

My heart's Desire
Feb 10th 2008, 03:22 AM
I also want to comment in that most sins IMO are committed willfully and knowingly.I think so too. I think it is possible that we get so used to doing it that we don't realize how willful it is anymore. Just because we don't realize we are doing it, IMO doesn't make it any less willful in some instances. I'm thinking of like attitudes for instance. An example perhaps is if you start doing things well for others at work and doing your own job well too and one day you find it to be a source of Pride for you (the wrong kind) The kind of Pride that becomes a Sin.

Naphal
Feb 10th 2008, 03:26 AM
I think so too. I think it is possible that we get so used to doing it that we don't realize how willful it is anymore. Just because we don't realize we are doing it, IMO doesn't make it any less willful in some instances. I'm thinking of like attitudes for instance. An example perhaps is if you start doing things well for others at work and doing your own job well too and one day you find it to be a source of Pride for you (the wrong kind) The kind of Pride that becomes a Sin.


Reminds me of "white collar" crime and then the other typical, street type of crime. Well, while one seems like les of a crime, both really are very serious crimes. It's pretty easy to point at a homosexual and think they are a low form of being while that same person might be committing sins that are worse.

My heart's Desire
Feb 10th 2008, 04:36 AM
Reminds me of "white collar" crime and then the other typical, street type of crime. Well, while one seems like les of a crime, both really are very serious crimes. It's pretty easy to point at a homosexual and think they are a low form of being while that same person might be committing sins that are worse.
I agree. The Bible does seem to make that lifestyle particuliarly loathesome to God but the reality is all sin (as I think was pointed out) is loathesome to God. The difference is that before Salvation it damns you and afterwards it is unpleasing to the Lord and puts us at a disadvantage in our walk with the Lord. We also have to be aware that we don't all have the same knowledge of our sins at salvation as some others do. That becomes obvious as we read some of the questions put forth by Chrisitians in these very forums about (is this a sin, is that a sin? etc. We love the Lord and yet we're not sure if some things are sins as they are not specifically mentioned in the Word etc, etc. Do we doubt that we are saved while we are questioning about these sins? I doubt it.
Some knowledge of what is displeasing to the Lord comes as we continue to grow and get to know Him. We adjust our lives by the Light we have and by the Light we continue to aquire about ourselves as He convicts us.
How do we know how many homosexuals who get saved, know at that time that the lifesyle is a sin. We don't. But the Lord certainly may let them know either at that time or later.

My heart's Desire
Feb 10th 2008, 05:10 AM
The question posed is still a very good topic. I also believe the passage is speaking to Christians. Love is the fruit of the Spirit. This kind of love is not nessessarily a feeling or emotion but is action. This love comes from the Spirit and results in our concern for the welfare of others by taking care of their physical needs. Since it is a fruit of the Spirit, the result of salvation what I believe is that if one continually has no compassion to help those who are in need, then perhaps it is needed to , as another scripture points out to examine ourselves to see if we really are in the faith.

Brother Mark
Feb 10th 2008, 01:26 PM
Ever hear of repentance and forgiveness? Heaven won't have any sinners in it yet everyone that goes to heaven has been a sinner before.

Correct. People who use to be liars, homosexuals, etc make it. Those who still are don't. That's why the word says there will be no liars, etc. in heaven.

Partaker of Christ
Feb 11th 2008, 06:12 PM
Correct. People who use to be liars, homosexuals, etc make it. Those who still are don't. That's why the word says there will be no liars, etc. in heaven.

The thing is, that there will be NO SIN whatsoever in heaven. Not even the spot or stain of sin. So who (if anyone) does that exclude?

There will be no liars, so I have to ask, when was the last time we knowingly told a lie?