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doug3
Feb 9th 2008, 08:37 PM
Hi,

Several times I've come across posts which state that on the basis of the food laws laid out in the OT, that God does not want Christians to eat such foods as pork and shell fish.

Why? :confused

In 1st Corinthians 10, we are counseled:

(v.25) As a rule eat anything that is sold in the meat market without raising any question about it for conscience’ sake, ( v.26 ) for the earth and everything that it contains belong to the Lord. (Williams NT)

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof. (KJV)

Any insights to share?

bjones
Feb 9th 2008, 09:18 PM
It's a fad.

You should meditate on the dietary laws for the spiritual truths they teach.

A clean animal is one that chews the cud and has a split hoof. Or one who meditates on the word and it produces a separated walk.

The Pharisees and scribes were examples of unclean animals. One meditated on the word, but it did not affect his walk. The other walked "righteously" but it was not based in the word.

A clean fish has scales and fins. The scales separate the fish from it's environment and the fins allow it to swim through the water:word. The unclean fish either have no scales or are bottom dwellers, living in the "earth".
The lobster is an abomination because it plucks those living in the word and drags them to the earth.

With birds look at those that eat dead things and can't fly "in the spirit".

An undiscerning beautiful woman is like a pig with a gold ring in its nose. It will eat anything and not discern the word of God.

But since Peter's dream, not only were Gentiles allowed in the church, but we can eat pork.

Slug1
Feb 9th 2008, 09:29 PM
Chapter 14 of Romans is a good chapter to read concerning this topic. I eat everything that tastes good ;)

Athanasius
Feb 9th 2008, 09:41 PM
As I eat these hamburgers, I'm reminded of Romans 14, as Slug 1 has stated.

Naphal
Feb 9th 2008, 09:57 PM
Hi,

Several times I've come across posts which state that on the basis of the food laws laid out in the OT, that God does not want Christians to eat such foods as pork and shell fish.

Why? :confused

In 1st Corinthians 10, we are counseled:

(v.25) As a rule eat anything that is sold in the meat market without raising any question about it for conscience’ sake, ( v.26 ) for the earth and everything that it contains belong to the Lord. (Williams NT)

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof. (KJV)

Any insights to share?

Youve covered it pretty well. Some people recognize that the food laws were changed under the new covenant and that the ones of the former covenant are no longer valid.



Before the law, there was no such thing as 'unclean' meat

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Genesis 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
At this time, God did not require man to eat certain "clean" animals. Any animal that "moved" was ok for eating.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1 Timothy 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Every creature, clean or unclean is good for food and should not be refused IF, and this is the key, if it is received with Thanksgiving and prayer because this is how unclean foods are sanctified. Sanctified means to be made clean. Unclean foods are still unclean if they aren't sanctified by God and that is done by our receiving the foods in thanksgiving and praying for their sanctification or cleansing!

Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
Mark 7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
Mark 7:17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mark 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mark 7:23 Al l these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Matthew 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
Matthew 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Matthew 15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
Matthew 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
Matthew 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Matthew 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

No longer then can any "unclean" food defile a man because a Christian receives his food with thanksgiving and with prayer that God will sanctify the foods being eaten.


25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 26For "the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof." 27If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.


If you are at a market you should eat any of the meat that is sold there.

If you were served pork at someone's home then you are required to eat it.

diffangle
Feb 9th 2008, 10:14 PM
Hi,

Several times I've come across posts which state that on the basis of the food laws laid out in the OT, that God does not want Christians to eat such foods as pork and shell fish.

Why? :confused

In 1st Corinthians 10, we are counseled:

(v.25) As a rule eat anything that is sold in the meat market without raising any question about it for conscience’ sake, ( v.26 ) for the earth and everything that it contains belong to the Lord. (Williams NT)

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof. (KJV)

Any insights to share?
Here's a great article on that subject :)...

http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/lcg/studytopics/lcg-st.cgi?category=Christianity1&item=1116549049

2Witnesses
Feb 9th 2008, 10:17 PM
Yes,

You are free in Christ to eat anything. But you know what is a greater freedom? That from your love you try not to offend a weaker brother or sister in Christ.

But Why, you may ask, is my freedom to be determined by their weakness, by their lack of spiritual insight?

If you have to ask, re-read statement one again, slowly.

2Witnesses

bjones
Feb 9th 2008, 11:27 PM
More often than not, these days, there are few weaker brotherswho would be tempted by the foods we choose to eat. We have few foods that have been sacrificed to idols. A more frequent opportunity arises over issues of alcohol.

Some have problems with it and it is better not to tempt them with it.

But there is also a difference between not offending a weaker brother, and not caving to Judaising Pharisees who would drag us back to legalism.

Most institutional rules against foods or drinks are simply legalisms based in the excuse that someone somewhere might be offended.

daughter
Feb 9th 2008, 11:29 PM
Romans 14. This shouldn't be an issue to Christians. Eat, or don't eat, what you want to, or don't want to. We're judged not by anyone else's conscience but our own. I'm vegan, if I ate pork or chicken I'd feel like it was a sin. But another person might be fine about it, in which case it's between them and God.

Read Romans 14.

Sold Out
Feb 9th 2008, 11:33 PM
Hi,

Several times I've come across posts which state that on the basis of the food laws laid out in the OT, that God does not want Christians to eat such foods as pork and shell fish.

Why? :confused

In 1st Corinthians 10, we are counseled:

(v.25) As a rule eat anything that is sold in the meat market without raising any question about it for conscience’ sake, ( v.26 ) for the earth and everything that it contains belong to the Lord. (Williams NT)

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof. (KJV)

Any insights to share?

We are not under the dietary laws, but would probably do well to adhere to them for health reasons. God gave these laws specifically to the nation of Israel to ensure the Messiah would come thru the Jewish race. It was for health reasons.

Since Jesus has come and the law did it's work, those laws are no longer necessary, in the way in which they were given originally.

lildave7777
Feb 9th 2008, 11:49 PM
The way i understand it the food laws were laid out by God in the Old testement for a few reasons. One was to set the Jewish people apart from other people. Another is that most of the foods he told them not to eat are actually unclean ie have parasites in them. This has two benifits/thoughts behind it. One, God once again showing that his righteousness can have no connection to sin/uncleaness. Two, the food wasn't really good for them anyway and to not eat it would actually make them healthier.

In the New Testement we are no longer restricted by the ceremonial laws presented in the Old testement....really hope to not start a huge argument by saying that :pray: and we can eat whatever we want. we are not depending on following the law for our salvation. We are also not depending on them to show people we are different. We are different because we have the Spirit of the Living God dwelling in us. People will notice our fruit and our love.

Most people i know of that say you can't eat certain foods really mean that their church or religion tells them not to eat certain foods sometimes only on certain days. this is generally rooted back to either legalism, as was stated above, or a belief that by doing so the person is somehow honoring God.

dave.:)

bjones
Feb 10th 2008, 12:15 AM
Notice how even in this thread we focus on the "legality" of the eating, or the pragmatism of the eating, rather than on the spiritual truths.

Such is the flesh ;-)

nzyr
Feb 10th 2008, 12:42 AM
Here's another scripture:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. - 1 Timothy 4:1-6

Naphal
Feb 10th 2008, 12:55 AM
It was for health reasons.

Can that be documented in scripture?

Sold Out
Feb 11th 2008, 02:22 PM
Can that be documented in scripture?

'clean' -vs- 'unclean'

Slug1
Feb 11th 2008, 02:24 PM
'clean' -vs- 'unclean'OT vs. NT... which one? ;)

Friend of I AM
Feb 11th 2008, 02:36 PM
Hi,

Several times I've come across posts which state that on the basis of the food laws laid out in the OT, that God does not want Christians to eat such foods as pork and shell fish.

Why? :confused

In 1st Corinthians 10, we are counseled:

(v.25) As a rule eat anything that is sold in the meat market without raising any question about it for conscience’ sake, ( v.26 ) for the earth and everything that it contains belong to the Lord. (Williams NT)

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof. (KJV)

Any insights to share?

Romans 14:22-23
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

NT doesn't nullify the OT Law, however, it does indeed make having faith in God the defining thing regarding what one should eat. So have faith before you eat. I'd say just don't worry about it at all. God will destroy the stomach, as well as the meat that's in the stomach in the end...before he gives you a new transformed sinless body..:)

Brother Mark
Feb 11th 2008, 03:03 PM
Keep in mind what Jesus said about eating. "That man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." We eat his word. That would be clean food. Let us not eat the words of the enemy. We should take captive every thought and bring it to obedience to Christ.

Studyin'2Show
Feb 11th 2008, 03:22 PM
OT vs. NT... which one? ;)I don't think the two are at odds. All of Scripture; both Hebrew and Apostolic, is like a magnificent tapestry our Father has woven together for us. ;)

Naphal
Feb 11th 2008, 08:46 PM
'clean' -vs- 'unclean'


That's not evidence of it being unhealthy. If that was the case then it would have made people sick when all animals were allowed for food before the law was given. but, people lived longer lives than at any other point in those days.


Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Genesis 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

There were clean and unclean animals at this time and all were ok to eat.

Slug1
Feb 11th 2008, 09:43 PM
I don't think the two are at odds. All of Scripture; both Hebrew and Apostolic, is like a magnificent tapestry our Father has woven together for us. ;)Well I had to ask cause in the OT, some foods are specified as not to eat and in the NT all food is good to eat. The difference is in the person deciding what they feel is the right food to eat. The key, when I eat my 6 hour smoke pork ribs I am not sinning cause someone else feels it's a sin for them to eat pork.

Studyin'2Show
Feb 11th 2008, 11:38 PM
Well I had to ask cause in the OT, some foods are specified as not to eat and in the NT all food is good to eat. The difference is in the person deciding what they feel is the right food to eat. The key, when I eat my 6 hour smoke pork ribs I am not sinning cause someone else feels it's a sin for them to eat pork.By all means enjoy what you like ;) but we all should recognize that ALL Scripture works together and none of it is at odds with another. It was the 'vs' that stood out in your post.

God Bless!

Naphal
Feb 11th 2008, 11:42 PM
By all means enjoy what you like ;) but we all should recognize that ALL Scripture works together and none of it is at odds with another. It was the 'vs' that stood out in your post.

God Bless!

There are some things that new scripture trumps and supercedes. There are many of the old that is at odds with the new.

Studyin'2Show
Feb 12th 2008, 12:30 AM
There are some things that new scripture trumps and supercedes. There are many of the old that is at odds with the new.If that's how you see it. :hmm: I see a magnificent tapestry He has woven together and it all shows His glory! Not bits and pieces working against each other but working in conjunction.

God Bless!

Naphal
Feb 12th 2008, 03:39 AM
If that's how you see it. :hmm: I see a magnificent tapestry He has woven together and it all shows His glory! Not bits and pieces working against each other but working in conjunction.

God Bless!

The cast off pieces do not work against anything :) Some of what was commanded in the former are not commanded in the current covenant. What we may or may not eat is one example.

Studyin'2Show
Feb 12th 2008, 01:47 PM
I guess I just don't see any of God's word as cast off pieces. :hmm:

doug3
Feb 12th 2008, 06:43 PM
Hi all,

Thank you all for your input. Much to "chew" upon :lol:.

Brother Mark
Feb 12th 2008, 06:46 PM
Just another thing to chew on... the first sin was one of eating. When God said "be ye holy as I am holy" he often did it around the food laws. I have already mentioned what I think he was referring to in an earlier post in this thread. The food laws point to a very important spiritual truth.

wtj
Jan 24th 2009, 01:30 PM
food effects the spirit and soul - when one is intoxicated with wine - he will do that which he would not otherwise do. drugs do the same. why not pork and shellfish - because they are unclean and can harbor unclean spirits.And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. Mark 5:13

check the scriptures - The Spirit of God does not dwell in the unclean. unclean spirits do.

Studyin'2Show
Jan 24th 2009, 08:04 PM
food effects the spirit and soul - when one is intoxicated with wine - he will do that which he would not otherwise do. drugs do the same. why not pork and shellfish - because they are unclean and can harbor unclean spirits.And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. Mark 5:13

check the scriptures - The Spirit of God does not dwell in the unclean. unclean spirits do.That's an interesting interpretation; one I hadn't really considered. :hmm:

Pilgrimtozion
Jan 24th 2009, 08:06 PM
Closing this thread down. The thread is a year old and half of the participants including the OP are no longer active.