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brianlove84
Feb 15th 2008, 09:01 PM
What does the bible say about drinking.

-Brian

Confused64
Feb 15th 2008, 09:03 PM
As far as I know, it warns against drunkeness as a sin, but I don't believe that drinking itself is a sin.

ServantofTruth
Feb 15th 2008, 09:14 PM
Drinking alcohol is a problem area for me. I got drunk a handful of times and decided alcohol isn't worth it.
The bible teaches that alcohol is fine, as long as you don't get drunk.
The value of this teaching for me is obediance to God's greater Wisdom through scripture. I so much want to tell people never to drink a drop of alcohol ever again. But i will teach always to obey scripture and that it is never wrong.
Another problem area is i'm vegetarian. But i will preach that eating meat and fish is fine.
Perhaps it is the hardest teachings for each of us to obey, that strengthen our personal faith the most?

Athanasius
Feb 15th 2008, 09:16 PM
Well, I only smoke a little bit of crack, not enough to get addicted to it.
Because once it gets addicting, then it's wrong.

Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it?
Bu it's the equivalent of what a lot of you will eventually say. . . .

aliveinchrist
Feb 15th 2008, 09:20 PM
Well, I only smoke a little bit of crack, not enough to get addicted to it.
Because once it gets addicting, then it's wrong.

Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it?
Bu it's the equivalent of what a lot of you will eventually say. . . .

So, are you saying it's not okay to drink a few drinks? Or a glass or two of wine before bed?

Confused64
Feb 15th 2008, 09:22 PM
Well, I only smoke a little bit of crack, not enough to get addicted to it.
Because once it gets addicting, then it's wrong.

Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it?
Bu it's the equivalent of what a lot of you will eventually say. . . .

I personally think you're going too far with that.

When I was young and stupid, I drank a lot. I did a lot of drugs. I don't conduct myself in that manner anymore. Now, this doesn't mean that I don't occasionally enjoy a good Sam Adams specialty brew, or a good Shiraz...it means that I don't over indulge. I keep my wits about me and don't conduct in harmful behavior.

As I see it, it's a big difference.

Athanasius
Feb 15th 2008, 09:23 PM
So, are you saying it's not okay to drink a few drinks? Or a glass or two of wine before bed?

I'm say that hey, as long as you don't go overboard!
Anything's fine, as long as it isn't explicitly forbidden by one or more Biblical propositions.

The Bible doesn't say anything about crack. And as for respecting our bodies, well, years of drinking screws your over as does using crack. It's a personal conviction thing, personal revelation.

Why again, should we play with fire?
You'll have to excuse the history of alcoholism in my family.

You know, as long as I keep a pretty clear head, what's the harm!
Now, I decided to use crack just to go overboard. I could have very easily used weed as the example, but I'm not that sinister.

Sooner87
Feb 15th 2008, 09:24 PM
I agree with what most people say on here. Proverbs speaks against drunkeness, not against drinking. Your intentions and how far you take it is what is wrong with it.

Seeker of truth
Feb 15th 2008, 09:25 PM
I feel an occasional drink is fine as long as it doesn't cause anyone to stumble. As was said, the Bible warns against drunkeness but I haven't read anything that says we shouldn't drink alcohol.

aliveinchrist
Feb 15th 2008, 09:26 PM
I'm say that hey, as long as you don't go overboard!
Anything's fine, as long as it isn't explicitly forbidden by one or more Biblical propositions.

The Bible doesn't say anything about crack. And as for respecting our bodies, well, years of drinking screws your over as does using crack. It's a personal conviction thing, personal revelation.

Why again, should we play with fire?
You'll have to excuse the history of alcoholism in my family.

You know, as long as I keep a pretty clear head, what's the harm!
Now, I decided to use crack just to go overboard. I could have very easily used weed as the example, but I'm not that sinister.

I understand why you don't like alcohol.

But, if I recall, the Bible did say a glass of wine is good for the stomach. Or something along those lines. For the life of me, i can't find it. i just looked............

Athanasius
Feb 15th 2008, 09:28 PM
I understand why you don't like alcohol.

But, if I recall, the Bible did say a glass of wine is good for the stomach. Or something along those lines. For the life of me, i can't find it. i just looked............

Luke drank wine because of a stomach condition.

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 09:28 PM
1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

As modern medical knows, drinking a little alcohol is actually healthy. It is over use that then becomes unhealthy. It is ridiculous to compare wine to crack.

Athanasius
Feb 15th 2008, 09:30 PM
1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

As modern medical knows, drinking a little alcohol is actually healthy. It is over use that then becomes unhealthy. It is ridiculous to compare wine to crack.

I believe I said I was being ridiculous and that people would find the comparison ridiculous.

Seeker of truth
Feb 15th 2008, 09:30 PM
I see no problem with one choosing not to drink. I haven't found any Scripture to support it is bad though.

Slug1
Feb 15th 2008, 09:31 PM
As it's been said already you'll find plenty of scripture in the Bible stating that drunkenness is a sin while drinking alcohol is not. I enjoy a beer or two every once in a while or even a mixed drink.

It's how you're convicted IMO, cause many Christians are convicted that a single sip of alcohol is a sin for them while others are not convicted this way. Since scripture doesn't say consuming alcohol is a sin but that drunkenness is then it's simple for me, I'll enjoy a beer or two.

lost_little_one
Feb 15th 2008, 09:41 PM
Its all about over indulgence, Jesus drank, granted it was a much more watered down version of what we have. Yes it says to not get drunk. However as far as drinking being bad for you there is medical research that shows small amounts of certain wine on a periodic basis can actually be GOOD for you.

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 09:45 PM
Its all about over indulgence, Jesus drank, granted it was a much more watered down version of what we have. Yes it says to not get drunk. However as far as drinking being bad for you there is medical research that shows small amounts of certain wine on a periodic basis can actually be GOOD for you.

Wine in biblical days was just as potent as what we have now. And it isn't any certain wine that is beneficial, it's all wine and even beer and other forms of alcohol have the same or similar health benefits. However, it is always a moderate amount and they say daily is fine.

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 09:46 PM
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html





Throughout the 10,000 or so years that humans have been drinking fermented beverages, they've also been arguing about their merits and demerits. The debate still simmers today, with a lively back-and-forth over whether alcohol is good for you or bad for you.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/images/Wine%20glasses.JPGIt's safe to say that alcohol is both a tonic and a poison. The difference lies mostly in the dose. Moderate drinking seems to be good for the heart and circulatory system, and probably protects against type 2 diabetes and gallstones. Heavy drinking is a major cause of preventable death in most countries. In the U.S., alcohol is implicated in about half of fatal traffic accidents.(1 (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html#references)) Heavy drinking can damage the liver and heart, harm an unborn child, increase the chances of developing breast and some other cancers, contribute to depression and violence, and interfere with relationships. Alcohol's two-faced nature shouldn't come as a surprise. The active ingredient in alcoholic beverages, a simple molecule called ethanol, affects the body in many different ways. It directly influences the stomach, brain, heart, gallbladder, and liver. It affects levels of lipids (cholesterol and triglycerides) and insulin in the blood, as well as inflammation and coagulation. It also alters mood, concentration, and coordination.

lost_little_one
Feb 15th 2008, 09:48 PM
okay, i was basing the wine potency off of a message my pastor had spoke about in church on a Sunday. He used a reference about how many parts water the wine was in Jesus' day as compared to how many parts water it is today giving it a higher potency now than then. If i can find the reference i'll definately post it.

Athanasius
Feb 15th 2008, 09:49 PM
Well, there are a lot of things that 'seem' as if they are 'probably' good for us ;)

Buck shot
Feb 15th 2008, 09:50 PM
Well, I only smoke a little bit of crack, not enough to get addicted to it.
Because once it gets addicting, then it's wrong.

Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it?
Bu it's the equivalent of what a lot of you will eventually say. . . .

You are right! We do justify alcohol just like a lot of things "with moderation". It's like so many other things, where in the bible does it say a little white lie is okay?

"because of the hardness of our hearts" we will justify what we want to and find some scripture to back it up.

Show me how drinking a little alcohol edifies our Father. We should seek to always serve Him.

Athanasius
Feb 15th 2008, 09:51 PM
You are right! We do justify alcohol just like a lot of things "with moderation". It's like so many other things, where in the bible does it say a little white lie is okay?

"because of the hardness of our hearts" we will justify what we want to and find some scripture to back it up.

Show me how drinking a little alcohol edifies our Father. We should seek to always serve Him.

I should have not been so sarcastic and used weed as my example.
Oh well!

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 09:51 PM
Wine is made is basically the same ways it was. There is no way to know what kinds of wins Jesus drank or their alcohol content but in his miracle he made very good wine as opposed to a cheaper weaker wine so that gives a clue IMO. Cheap wine was crude and poor in flavor as opposed to the stronger, better wines.

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 09:53 PM
You are right! We do justify alcohol just like a lot of things "with moderation". It's like so many other things, where in the bible does it say a little white lie is okay?

"because of the hardness of our hearts" we will justify what we want to and find some scripture to back it up.

Show me how drinking a little alcohol edifies our Father. We should seek to always serve Him.

It's already been proven that a little wine is fine and even recommended in the bible. Please read the thread.

Buck shot
Feb 15th 2008, 09:55 PM
It's already been proven that a little wine is fine and even recommended in the bible. Please read the thread.

Not proven to me or as an example to my children. I agree to disagree with you:D

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 09:57 PM
Not proven to me or as an example to my children. I agree to disagree with you:D

Disagree with this too?


1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Buck shot
Feb 15th 2008, 09:59 PM
Disagree with this too?


1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.


Here's one back at ya!
1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 10:03 PM
Here's one back at ya!
1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

The bible doesn't contradict itself in case you didn't know that.

It says "given to wine" meaning wine owns and controls this person.

Seeker of truth
Feb 15th 2008, 10:10 PM
If you (general you) do not approve of alcohol do not drink it. There is nothing in the Scripture that supports alcohol (in modderation) is evil.

Buck shot
Feb 15th 2008, 10:17 PM
If you (general you) do not approve of alcohol do not drink it. There is nothing in the Scripture that supports alcohol (in modderation) is evil.


Kind of like someone said earlier about other drugs. There is nothing that says there's anything wrong with a little of them (we even use them for our stomach's sake and call legal one's perscription) but we have a spirit inside that lets us know that is is not something we want to show as a witness of Christ.
Remember we are called to be His witness and people are watching everything we do.

A good rule of thumb is when you start looking something up to see it it's okay to do... someone is trying to keep you from making a mistake.

SDG
Feb 15th 2008, 10:17 PM
This comes from such a beautiful Psalm:

Psalm 104

14 He causes the grass to grow for the cattle,
And vegetation for the service of man,
That he may bring forth food from the earth,

15 And wine that makes glad the heart of man,
Oil to make his face shine,
And bread which strengthens man’s heart.


However, there are also many clear warnings in the Bible against different abuses of alcohol, ranging from drunkenness to being a cause of stumbling for another.

Unless there is some abuse, it seems that it is wrong both to judge the one who drinks for his drinking (Colossians 2:16), and to judge the one who does not drink for his unwillingness to drink (Romans 14, noting the command in v. 1).

Galatians 5:13 "For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another."


In Christ,
Josh

Buck shot
Feb 15th 2008, 10:20 PM
Romans 14:
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

lost_little_one
Feb 15th 2008, 10:21 PM
Kind of like someone said earlier about other drugs. There is nothing that says there's anything wrong with a little of them (we even use them for our stomach's sake and call legal one's perscription) but we have a spirit inside that lets us know that is is not something we want to show as a witness of Christ.
Remember we are called to be His witness and people are watching everything we do.

A good rule of thumb is when you start looking something up to see it it's okay to do... someone is trying to keep you from making a mistake.


I wouldn't necessarily say it would be a mistake, my brother looks things up just to make sure he is doing what is right for him. if you don't look or ask you will never know.

lost_little_one
Feb 15th 2008, 10:22 PM
Romans 14:
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.


i agree, if is something that would cause another to stumble if you do that around them you shouldn't do it, but that text isn't limited to drinking wine.

Buck shot
Feb 15th 2008, 10:27 PM
i agree, if is something that would cause another to stumble if you do that around them you shouldn't do it, but that text isn't limited to drinking wine.

:pp Your exactly RIGHT :pp

Yes, you should look things up. I agree but I also know that most of the time we (myself included) are by nature looking for justification instead of what or Lord wants us to do. We are not seeking what He wants us to do but are seeking what we are allowed to do. Would you agree?

swtjudy
Feb 15th 2008, 10:27 PM
I am a recovering alcoholic, 24 years now and believe Christians, and anyone for that matter, should leave it alone. I didn't know I had a problem with drinking when I first started and by the time I realized it my life was ruined. Why start something that can have such devastating effects on one's life? As I posted on another one about drinking, I don't believe it is needed in a Christian's life. It lowers one's inhibitions and may lead to many other problems. But, to each his own.

lost_little_one
Feb 15th 2008, 10:30 PM
:pp Your exactly RIGHT :pp

Yes, you should look things up. I agree but I also know that most of the time we (myself included) are by nature looking for justification instead of what or Lord wants us to do. We are not seeking what He wants us to do but are seeking what we are allowed to do. Would you agree?


As human nature i would say yes, we always try and look for justification for doing something in the Bible even to the point of taking it way out of context, even with little things. Unfortunate but true.

hillbilly dave
Feb 15th 2008, 10:38 PM
Through my own pesonal conviction the use of alcohol is permissible as medicine. It has its value as a medicine. As for a social thing it is not for me. We all have things in our lives that others view as sinful. No amount of justifing will ever make them right. Just a thought how would you judge your pastor if he invited you over for a beer?

Slug1
Feb 15th 2008, 10:46 PM
Have we forgotten that the first miracle that Jesus performed was to turn water to a very best wine at that wedding party?

How many people did He cause to stumble with some of the mentalities I'm reading in here. Jesus "SUPPLIED" the wine for this party so if drinking alcohol is sinful...

Think with reason and not with what you've been "told" by others all your life. Read the Bible and find the truth.

If it's a sin to drink... Jesus would NEVER have performed this miracle for that party.

In 1 Tim 5:22 it speaks about sharing in the sins of others... NOT to do it. Jesus was not only sinless but He would not have done anything that was sinful or would lead to sin. He supplied wine for this party.... do the math.

Slug1
Feb 15th 2008, 10:48 PM
Through my own pesonal conviction the use of alcohol is permissible as medicine. It has its value as a medicine. As for a social thing it is not for me. We all have things in our lives that others view as sinful. No amount of justifing will ever make them right. Just a thought how would you judge your pastor if he invited you over for a beer?I'd bring the frosted mugs :lol:

ServantofTruth
Feb 15th 2008, 10:49 PM
Surely the point of mixing alcohol and water, is that the water is unclean. Even today you have to buy bottled water if you go to Israel i'm told, because i've never been there. To mix the 2 would make it safe? I'm not stating a fact, just what i have been told.
I was also taught that what Jesus drank was mixed with water and not anywhere near as strong as what we (not me) drink today. This was in a church where people loved alcohol far too much in my opinion.

I go along with the idea that it's fine without getting drunk. But that opens up the question of what 'being drunk' means. Most drinkers i know think 2 or 3 is fine, because they are under the legal driving limit and not falling down.
But i dislike the attitude of those people even after one drink. To them they are the same person, i can see they are not. I would suggest one drink as a good limit for everyone!

Naphal
Feb 15th 2008, 11:34 PM
Surely the point of mixing alcohol and water, is that the water is unclean. Even today you have to buy bottled water if you go to Israel i'm told, because i've never been there. To mix the 2 would make it safe? I'm not stating a fact, just what i have been told.


No that's not true. Adding dirty water to wine doesn't make the water clean. Water is only made clean during the process of the wine being created.

aliveinchrist
Feb 15th 2008, 11:55 PM
I personally don't see how drinking a glass or two of wine before bed is sinning. Or a beer or two with a friend.........how is that a sin? :confused

There is nothing wrong with drinking a glass now and again.

Mograce2U
Feb 16th 2008, 05:05 AM
(1 Chr 12:40 KJV) Moreover they that were nigh them, even unto Issachar and Zebulun and Naphtali, brought bread on asses, and on camels, and on mules, and on oxen, and meat, meal, cakes of figs, and bunches of raisins, and wine, and oil, and oxen, and sheep abundantly: for there was joy in Israel.

(Eccl 9:7-8 KJV) Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. {8} Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

If one desires to make his neighbor drunk so as to look upon his nakedness then that is sin because of the intended purpose. But wine is also an expression of joy and it need not lead to unrighteous behavior. Temperance in all things is wisdom.

Darren
Feb 16th 2008, 09:50 AM
because it is late, i will not go into a long breakdown of the biblical use of the word wine. go through your strong's for references. but in the bible , the word wine can mean one of three possibilities depending on usage. either 1. sweet fruit of the vine or non-intoxicating and non-fermented. 2. fermented and intoxicating. or 3. over fermented ( vinegar)

when the bible refers to blessing or drinking in a celebratory manner--it is non-fermented usage.

when condemning drunkenness, it is the fermented type.

as far as the medical purpose of settling a bad stomach, the remedy of that day was over fermented grapes or vinegar that could be mixed with water, but not always. (the word in the kjv for vinegar matches this as well.)

Thermodynamics
Feb 16th 2008, 10:27 PM
Show me how drinking a little alcohol edifies our Father. We should seek to always serve Him.

Have you ever eaten a cookie? How does that "edify our Father?" Of course if you eat a lot of cookies that is very bad for you. However, one glass of wine a day is better for you than one cookie a day.

ServantofTruth
Feb 16th 2008, 10:42 PM
Not In My House Mate, The Wife Would Go Bananas! :d

Thermodynamics
Feb 16th 2008, 11:34 PM
because it is late, i will not go into a long breakdown of the biblical use of the word wine. go through your strong's for references. but in the bible , the word wine can mean one of three possibilities depending on usage. either 1. sweet fruit of the vine or non-intoxicating and non-fermented. 2. fermented and intoxicating. or 3. over fermented ( vinegar)

when the bible refers to blessing or drinking in a celebratory manner--it is non-fermented usage.

when condemning drunkenness, it is the fermented type.

as far as the medical purpose of settling a bad stomach, the remedy of that day was over fermented grapes or vinegar that could be mixed with water, but not always. (the word in the kjv for vinegar matches this as well.)

Darren, based on my limited understanding of Koine Greek I respectfully disagree, here is why:

Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Joh 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

In all of the above verses the same Greek word (oinos) is used. Thus the stuff that Jesus made from water at the wedding was the same stuff that John the Baptist didn't drink. It is clear from the second verse that Jesus did drink Oinos.

There are two words that I am aware of used for wine in the New Testament. Both of those words are used at least once in a context where wine is intoxicating.

I have heard it said that when you read "new wine" is means grape juice, however:

Gleukos:
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Being full of grape juice will not make you drunk.


Oinos:
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Here we see the same stuff that Jesus made at the wedding. It is also the same stuff Paul told Timothy to drink a little of:

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Also consider this from the Old Testament:

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Here not just wine is said to be o.k., but wiskey as well.

Having said all of that I am not suggesting that anyone who does not drink should start. I do suggest that anyone who drinks too much should stop. However, if you want a glass of wine, a beer or a drink of wiskey, as long as you are not getting yourself drunk there is nothing Biblically wrong with it.

:)

Naphal
Feb 17th 2008, 12:10 AM
because it is late, i will not go into a long breakdown of the biblical use of the word wine. go through your strong's for references. but in the bible , the word wine can mean one of three possibilities depending on usage. either 1. sweet fruit of the vine or non-intoxicating and non-fermented. 2. fermented and intoxicating. or 3. over fermented ( vinegar)

when the bible refers to blessing or drinking in a celebratory manner--it is non-fermented usage.

Lets take a look and see if this is true:




Gen 9:21
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

KJV
OT:3196
yayin (yah'-yin); from an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication, intoxication:

KJV - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber].



KJV
Gen 27:28
28 Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:
KJV

OT:8492
tiyrowsh (tee-roshe'); or tiyrosh (tee-roshe'); from OT:3423 in the sense of expulsion; must or fresh grape-juice (as just squeezed out); by implication (rarely) fermented wine:

KJV - (new, sweet) wine.



Num 28:7
7 And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.


KJV
OT:7941
shekar (shay-kawr'); from OT:7937; an intoxicant, i.e. intensely alcoholic liquor:

KJV - strong drink, + drunkard, strong wine.

***. shikkor. See OT:7910.



Ezra 6:9
9 And that which they have need of, both young bullocks, and rams, and lambs, for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the appointment of the priests which are at Jerusalem, let it be given them day by day without fail:
KJV


OT:2562
chamar (Aramaic), (kham-ar'; corresponding to OT:2561; wine:

KJV - wine.

***. chamor. See OT:2543.


OT:2561
chemer (kheh'-mer; from OT:2560; wine (as fermenting):

KJV - X pure, red wine.


Looks like fermented wine is used in blessing and celebratory ways. The second word usually means non-fermented but it can mean fermented wine in rare occasions. This word is only used 38 times in the OT. The other words are used 171 times.

These were just the first examples I checked into. There are other words used and these were only taken from the OT.

So, it's not true that when the bible refers to blessing or drinking in a celebratory manner that it's only non-fermented.

Thermodynamics
Feb 22nd 2008, 03:38 AM
Did I kill this thread?:hmm:

seniorflyer
Feb 23rd 2008, 06:53 AM
I have heard other non-drinkers explain 1) that they have alcoholism in their family history and had the discipline to avoid the possibility of bringing it on themselves. Why start? 2) "Walk the walk" Be an example of self control to others, especially their own kids or others who do drink. When you consider the possibility of a chilld growing up, thinking drinking is permissible based on the environment they grew up in, then either becoming an abuser/alcoholic, or the cause of a traffic death--who started that chain of events? 3) Is it possible to be a temperant person after a few libations? For what it is worth.

jgreene
Feb 24th 2008, 12:04 AM
I'll throw this into the fray:

"But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin." (Romans 14:23)

xSTEADFASTx
Feb 25th 2008, 04:23 AM
alcholism runs in my family; and I've seen enough drunk people its not for me; I 'am straight edge; and I choose to partake in a lifestyle without any type of added influence then whats needed. I could care less if someone has a drink; or has tones and wraps there car around a tree; people are people ad will do what they want. For me; I know I have an addictive personality; and I refuse to be consumed.

Firstfruits
Feb 26th 2008, 12:50 PM
What does the bible say about drinking.

-Brian

According to the following, which relates to tithing, God allowed it.

Deut 14:26 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=5&CHAP=14&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=26) And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

So all that have a problem with those that have the occasional drink, it was authorised by God.

Unless the law of tithing is no longer in effect, then it still stands.

Codger
Feb 26th 2008, 01:15 PM
The denomination of my youth (AoG) went to great effort to try to prove that the people in the New Testament only drank grape juice and not fermented wine. The historical record indicates otherwise. The yeast that caused the fermentation was already active on the grapes before they were even pressed by foot in an ancient winepress. So it was impossible to keep the juice from fermenting. The hot climate of that area also accelerated the process as well. Grape juice as we know it was only possible for probably a day or two. So, they drank real wine so far as I know.


However, there are also extenuating historical circumstances. For example: It was really taboo to be a drunkard in the Jewish culture of that day - there was a lot of social pressure to abstain from excess. Also, the custom of that day was to mix one to two parts water with the wine, which diluted it down significantly. Some say that the water was bad which precipitated this practice. This diluted wine was traditionally drunk with meals, which further reduces the effect of the alcohol.


For sure you cannot equate first century practices with ours today. Today we have distilleries, which can raise the alcohol concentration to almost pure alcohol. There is excessive abuse of concentrated alcoholic beverages today in this country. This is why I think that the Church often chooses to use grape juice in communion out of consideration for the people who have had drinking problems at some point in their lives. Abstinence is a Church tradition that developed in this country I think due to the destructive and excessive practices extant in our culture. I think those who abstain for this reason have good motives as long as it doesnít degrade into legalism. But neither is it wrong to drink in the same manner as Jesus and his disciples had done in their culture.

Larry

Buck shot
Feb 26th 2008, 05:13 PM
Have you ever eaten a cookie? How does that "edify our Father?" Of course if you eat a lot of cookies that is very bad for you. However, one glass of wine a day is better for you than one cookie a day.

I like cake more than cookies :rofl:

What I was trying to get across was that we are not seeking God's will but our own. Another thing that always seems to come up is the okay to drink wine. Why do we feel that if the Bible says wine is okay with moderation that it justifies all alcohol? I am pretty sure the white lightning my ancesters used to cook would not fit in the same category.

We can find verses that allow a Christian to do what we want as below:
1 Corinthians 6:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=6&verse=12&version=9&context=verse)
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

The thing that we need to grasp, is it worth possibly causing a weaker brother or sister to stumble? You may be okay with alcohol, weed, or gambling (or any other sin) but when you stand before our maker do you want to be held responsible for telling or showing a weaker Christian it was okay with moderation? You decide, as for myself I chose the safer route and try to live the best example I can to show that we don't need those temptation to have a life full of joy.

Thermodynamics
Feb 27th 2008, 12:59 AM
Good post Buckshot, thank you for taking the time to post a thoughtful reply.

My point is this: I would never tell anyone that they should drink, there are many good reasons for not drinking at all. Getting drunk is a sin, if you are not able to drink in moderation you should not be drinking at all. I have been around enough drunks to hate that sin.

Smoking pot or using other illegal drugs is a different matter. They are against the law (in the US) and as a Christian I must follow the laws of my country. I also would not go down that road even if it were not against the law as there is no positive side to using those things. There is however a positive side to drinking. Studies have shown that drinking small amounts of red wine is good for a person. I think it is cool that Paul was 2,000 years ahead of his time when he told Timothy to "drink a little wine" for health reasons as that shows the Bible once again ahead of science.

My intention is to drink a small glass of red wine every night just before bed, but to be honest many nights I forget to do that. When I do remember my dose of wine, I have about 4oz. and never more than 6oz. I also like a small nip of Scotch every now and then, but it takes me weeks or even months to go through a whole bottle of it.

I believe whth all my heart that there is nothing at all wrong with this. The idea that we should not drink at all is modern and not Biblical.

Naphal
Feb 27th 2008, 07:54 AM
Smoking pot or using other illegal drugs is a different matter. They are against the law (in the US) and as a Christian I must follow the laws of my country.


What about legal drugs, sleep aids, and pain killers you get for surgery and for dental work etc? Illegal is a no brainer but what of the legal ones, not abusing them of course but using for medical reasons like the way wine was recommended in the bible?

Thermodynamics
Feb 27th 2008, 12:56 PM
What about legal drugs, sleep aids, and pain killers you get for surgery and for dental work etc? Illegal is a no brainer but what of the legal ones, not abusing them of course but using for medical reasons like the way wine was recommended in the bible?

I see no problem with using legal drugs for medical reasons as directed by a doctor.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 01:43 PM
Here is a great article by Prof. Daniel Wallace (one of the foremost greek scholars of our time) on Alcohol and the Bible:

The Bible and Alcohol
By: Daniel B. Wallace , Th.M., Ph.D. (Bio)
(http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=988)

Buck shot
Feb 27th 2008, 04:03 PM
1 Thes 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are correct that you can show a little wine is good for you in the Bible. I even drink a small grape juice at night to help me sleep and it does make a differance when I don't.

I also agree that we need to take the meds that are prescribed. I trust that God gave us the knowledge to use these drugs properly.

The thing I try to remember is that we can easily lead someone else astray. It is like a deacon said one time, "when I can find a christian beer store I will go back to drinking. I just don't want a kid to say it's okay for me to drink because I saw ---- buying some." We all know that it's not against God's Law to purchase alcohol but it is the appearance we need to be careful of.

Toolman that was a good article. Be aware that there are a lot of us that can put Ph.D or Th.D behind our name but that does not mean that God has opened our understanding any more than someone that has never entered a school.

groovemongrel
Feb 27th 2008, 04:10 PM
For some of us, a few drinks is just fine. For me, a few drinks turns into a bunch so I don't drink at all anymore.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 04:11 PM
1 Thes 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are correct that you can show a little wine is good for you in the Bible. I even drink a small grape juice at night to help me sleep and it does make a differance when I don't.

I also agree that we need to take the meds that are prescribed. I trust that God gave us the knowledge to use these drugs properly.

The thing I try to remember is that we can easily lead someone else astray. It is like a deacon said one time, "when I can find a christian beer store I will go back to drinking. I just don't want a kid to say it's okay for me to drink because I saw ---- buying some." We all know that it's not against God's Law to purchase alcohol but it is the appearance we need to be careful of.

Well, we must also consider Jesus in this. Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine and He established wine as the emblem of His blood and the Church used wine for almost 2000 years in following His command until man's "wisdom" decided to substitute something else in place of what Christ established.

In the south here, I know that abstinance can be a stumbling block also because it deceives people into believing that alcohol is evil and that the bible teaches such.

Of course, all of that stems from the temperance movement of the 19th century and all the bad that came with it. The only way someone can believe alcohol is evil or a sin, in and of itself, is they have believed a lie.


Toolman that was a good article. Be aware that there are a lot of us that can put Ph.D or Th.D behind our name but that does not mean that God has opened our understanding any more than someone that has never entered a school.

No doubt about that. I only posted it because Dr. Wallace has shown himself to be a worthy workman who has poured his life into understanding the greek language so that he can better understand God's word.

The Body needs all types of members for sure.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 04:13 PM
For some of us, a few drinks is just fine. For me, a few drinks turns into a bunch so I don't drink at all anymore.

"1 is too many and 27 is not enough" is the old saying.

Buck shot
Feb 27th 2008, 05:40 PM
Well,

In the south here, I know that abstinance can be a stumbling block also because it deceives people into believing that alcohol is evil and that the bible teaches such.



I don't agree, I'm in the south too! That's like saying we should walk the fence to show people we are not condemning them.


Should we dress more worldly so that people feel more comfortable around us?
Should we have all the preachers get ear rings so that people see that the Bible does not call that evil either?
Should we quite going to church every Sunday because they may think the Bible says no going is evil?
Should we all get tatoos so people don't think the Bible says that's evil?
Should we all live off the system so that people will know that it's not evil?

COME ON! WHERE WILL THIS END? :giveup:

Just because something is not a sin don't mean that we are a good example by doing it. We are not called to conform to this world.

I have never heard or seen where God said don't be a stumbling block for the world. He tells us not to be a stumbling block to the saved.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 05:50 PM
I don't agree, I'm in the south too! That's like saying we should walk the fence to show people we are not condemning them.

Should we dress more worldly so that people feel more comfortable around us?
Should we have all the preachers get ear rings so that people see that the Bible does not call that evil either?
Should we quite going to church every Sunday because they may think the Bible says no going is evil?
Should we all get tatoos so people don't think the Bible says that's evil?
Should we all live off the system so that people will know that it's not evil?

COME ON! WHERE WILL THIS END? :giveup:

Just because something is not a sin don't mean that we are a good example by doing it. We are not called to conform to this world.

Drinking alcohol is NOT conforming to the world, so examples of dressing immorally or such as that are comparing apples to oranges.

Drinking alcohol is NOT a sin and to claim that it is "riding the fence" is simply false, according to scripture.

My point is that before 1850 the Church NEVER condemned alcohol as an "evil", because scripture does not do so. Man's wisdom (not biblical) is what declares alcohol a sin.

Christ's establishment of communion was wine and His first miracle was water to wine, so to say that drinking alcohol is "conforming to the world" is unbiblical and is simply man-made religion.

Which is why presenting that scripture condemns alcohol is a stumbling block because it is a lie to put forth that scripture teaches such.

We should simply allow each to choose, as scripture instructs us to do. Both moderation and abstinence are acceptable and neither is better than the other.


I have never heard or seen where God said don't be a stumbling block for the world. He tells us not to be a stumbling block to the saved.

He is concerned about both groups:

1 Thessalonians 4:12 - that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing.

Buck shot
Feb 27th 2008, 06:25 PM
Toolman,

:D Smile and take a deep breath :)

I have not said that drinking alcohol in itself is a sin.
I never said that drinking was walking the fence.


Mat 15:17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

What I did try to get across is that we should not do things that we don't agree with to fit in or make others think any differently about us just because it is not a sin. We should be trying to live our life for Him. We are called to put off the old and put on the new.

Nothing you put in your body will defy it. Remember, your body is the temple of God and one day we will be held accountable for what we allowed.

So you are correct each person has a choice.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 06:35 PM
Toolman,

:D Smile and take a deep breath :)

Breathing deeply :)

Seriously I'm not uptight, just for the record. Sometimes its hard to guage someone's demeanor in this medium because you can't see body language or hear voice inflection. But rest assured we're all cool :spin:


I have not said that drinking alcohol in itself is a sin.
I never said that drinking was walking the fence.


Mat 15:17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

What I did try to get across is that we should not do things that we don't agree with to fit in or make others think any differently about us just because it is not a sin. We should be trying to live our life for Him. We are called to put off the old and put on the new.

I agree with that. We don't have to do things we are convicted by. If one believes alcohol is detrimental to your walk then absolutely, abstinence is a good choice for that one.

What I was trying to get across is that in the south (especially Texas) there is alot of misinformation that has been propogated that alleges that the bible condemns alcohol. This of course is a lie and we as people of the Truth need to be ready and willing to point that out to people who question.


Nothing you put in your body will defy it. Remember, your body is the temple of God and one day we will be held accountable for what we allowed.

So you are correct each person has a choice.

And also held accountable for what we did not allow. Just as important IMO.

WonderWoman4Jesus
Feb 27th 2008, 06:43 PM
Drunkedness is a sin for several reasons. First, it takes away inhibitions and you're not in control of your mind or body. Your body is a temple, and you should never allow any intoxicating substance to invade your mind where you lose control. You can then fall into th trap of sinning again such as fornication. I believe there's definatly a limit on drinking. Every once and a great while I may drink a wine cooler, but I believe that if you have any sort of problem with it to abstain period. I believe if you have any problems with overdoing anything, avoid it. Especially if you known alcholism runs in your family or you have an addictive personality. Secondly, if the Spirit convicts you to stay away from it, do so. But, drunkedness is definatly a sin. The following is from gotquestions.org:

Answer: Scripture contains many warnings regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4,7,14; 1 Samuel 1:15; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4,6; Isaiah 5:11,22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12; Micah 2:11; Luke 1:15). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs “drink wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:11 encourages “yes, come buy wine and milk…”

What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18). The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or might encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13). In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31)


Answer: Scripture contains many warnings regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4,7,14; 1 Samuel 1:15; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4,6; Isaiah 5:11,22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12; Micah 2:11; Luke 1:15). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs “drink wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:11 encourages “yes, come buy wine and milk…”

What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18). The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or might encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13). In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).

Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation efforts, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but necessarily not to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today. Again, Scripture does not necessarily forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is, rather, drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12).

Alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful or addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom. Drunkenness and addiction are sin. However, due to the Biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to over-consumption of alcohol, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others – it is usually best for a Christian to abstain entirely from drinking alcohol.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 06:47 PM
Show me how drinking a little alcohol edifies our Father. We should seek to always serve Him.

Hey Buck Shot,

Since no one really addressed this one completely I would like to show an instance (or 2) where the Father is edified by the drinking of alcohol:

1 Corinthians 11:26 - For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lordís death till He comes.

When we partake of holy communion, as instructed by Christ, we honor the Father.

Psalm 104:15 - And wine that makes glad the heart of man,Oil to make his face shine, And bread which strengthens manís heart.

When our hearts are made merry by wine then the Father is pleased that His children are enjoying His gracious gifts.

1 Timothy 5:23 - No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomachís sake and your frequent infirmities.

When we use wine to settle our stomach the Father is pleased.

Buck shot
Feb 27th 2008, 07:16 PM
Breathing deeply :)

Seriously I'm not uptight, just for the record. Sometimes its hard to guage someone's demeanor in this medium because you can't see body language or hear voice inflection. But rest assured we're all cool :spin:

And also held accountable for what we did not allow. Just as important IMO.

Good Deal :cool:

Hopefully rewards will come for those! By the way I'm also in the great state of Texas!

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 07:18 PM
Good Deal :cool:

Hopefully rewards will come for those! By the way I'm also in the great state of Texas!

I noticed... and don't take my comments wrong... I absolutely love and am proud of Texas and being a Texan. But even the best sometimes need a little correction :lol:

Buck shot
Feb 27th 2008, 07:27 PM
Hey Buck Shot,

Since no one really addressed this one completely I would like to show an instance (or 2) where the Father is edified by the drinking of alcohol:

1 Corinthians 11:26 - For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lordís death till He comes.

When we partake of holy communion, as instructed by Christ, we honor the Father.

Psalm 104:15 - And wine that makes glad the heart of man,Oil to make his face shine, And bread which strengthens manís heart.

When our hearts are made merry by wine then the Father is pleased that His children are enjoying His gracious gifts.

1 Timothy 5:23 - No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomachís sake and your frequent infirmities.

When we use wine to settle our stomach the Father is pleased.


How much oil do you put on your head?:rofl:


Still comparing all alcohol to wine? Don't say what %, so all of it must be okay? Remember how many choses they had then for drinks with a meal and there were no "Tums". No cokes, no sweet tea, no running water into each house, no refrigiration so even the fruit drinks and milk would not stay fresh long.

It's pretty much apples and oranges to drink choices we have today.

Really I think everyone knows where I stand on this so it's time for me to let others speak.
I need to get some work done.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 07:35 PM
How much oil do you put on your head?:rofl:

A little dab will do ya :)


Still comparing all alcohol to wine? Don't say what %, so all of it must be okay?

I personally do not drink distilled liquor. I stick with either beer or wine.

But we can know for sure that the alcohol of biblical times was potent because there are repeated warnings about drunkenness, so obviously it was potent enough to intoxicate.

Here is a list of the various wines of ancient Rome some with an alcohol content of up to 16%:
http://www.unrv.com/economy/wine-chart.php
http://www.unrv.com/economy/wine.php


Remember how many choses they had then for drinks with a meal and there were no "Tums". No cokes, no sweet tea, no running water into each house, no refrigiration so even the fruit drinks and milk would not stay fresh long.

Wine wasn't a neccessity for there were quite a few who abstained (Nazarite vows, John the Baptist, etc.). So if one did not want to partake of wine there were options.


It's pretty much apples and oranges to drink choices we have today.

Well, like I said, when we partake of holy communion obviously God is pleased when we consume the wine of the Lord's table. This addresses the issue of whether or not God is edified by consumption of alcohol.

That was my point, to give a biblical answer to that question.


Really I think everyone knows where I stand on this so it's time for me to let others speak.
I need to get some work done.

Cool. Its been nice discussing the issue with you and getting your insight.

Whispering Grace
Feb 27th 2008, 08:22 PM
Hiya Toolman (and fellow Texan). :)

I'm curious...why do you think God required Nazarites to abstain from alcohol when they were separating themselves from the world and to God?

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 08:46 PM
Hiya Toolman (and fellow Texan). :)

I'm curious...why do you think God required Nazarites to abstain from alcohol when they were separating themselves from the world and to God?

IMO (and this is only my opinion) the nazarite vow was to sacrifice joy/pleasure (abstain from the vine, the blessing of God), receive shame (long hair) and experience seperation from a dead world (don't touch the dead).

I read that somewhere once and it made some sense but all we can offer here is, of course, opinion.

Your thoughts?

VerticalReality
Feb 27th 2008, 08:52 PM
IMO (and this is only my opinion) the nazarite vow was to sacrifice joy/pleasure (abstain from the vine, the blessing of God), receive shame (long hair) and experience seperation from a dead world (don't touch the dead).

I read that somewhere once and it made some sense but all we can offer here is, of course, opinion.

Your thoughts?

Not to chime in where I'm not wanted, but I look at it about the same as a married couple abstaining from sexual relations for a time in order to devote time to prayer and fasting. The sexual relations certainly aren't wrong for the married couple. However, abstaining is still encouraged for a time in order to focus on the Lord.



1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Toolman
Feb 27th 2008, 08:53 PM
Not to chime in where I'm not wanted, but I look at it about the same as a married couple abstaining from sexual relations for a time in order to devote time to prayer and fasting. The sexual relations certainly aren't wrong for the married couple. However, abstaining is still encouraged for a time in order to focus on the Lord.

That is exactly my thoughts also VR and specifically the verse that came to mind when I first read the article on the nazarite vow.

Naphal
Feb 27th 2008, 10:45 PM
I see no problem with using legal drugs for medical reasons as directed by a doctor.

Did you know there is almost always a legal form or adaptation of every type of illegal drug? I think it boils down to how something is used, not what it is. The bible teaches moderation and appropriateness in use.

Royalchild
Feb 28th 2008, 01:34 AM
Drinking alcohol is a problem area for me. I got drunk a handful of times and decided alcohol isn't worth it.
The bible teaches that alcohol is fine, as long as you don't get drunk.
The value of this teaching for me is obediance to God's greater Wisdom through scripture. I so much want to tell people never to drink a drop of alcohol ever again. But i will teach always to obey scripture and that it is never wrong.
Another problem area is i'm vegetarian. But i will preach that eating meat and fish is fine.
Perhaps it is the hardest teachings for each of us to obey, that strengthen our personal faith the most?

That is true, the bible teaches us not to be drunk with wine but be drunk in the Holy Spirit. Also, Matthew 15:11 teaches us that it is Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Then it goes on to say in verses 18-20, But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart;
and they defileth the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications(sex without marriage), thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things that defileth a man: but to eat with unwashed hands defilteth not a man.

So you can have a drink as long as you don't get drunk because your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which usually helps you keep your flesh under control. If you drink too much that you become drunk you can say and do things that defile you.

Royalchild
Feb 28th 2008, 01:46 AM
That is true, the bible teaches us not to be drunk with wine but be drunk in the Holy Spirit. Also, Matthew 15:11 teaches us that it is Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Then it goes on to say in verses 18-20, But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart;
and they defileth the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications(sex without marriage), thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things that defileth a man: but to eat with unwashed hands defilteth not a man.

So you can have a drink as long as you don't get drunk because your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which usually helps you keep your flesh under control. If you drink too much that you become drunk you can say and do things that defile you.
Not only you, but your character and the light that all people suppose to see when you have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you as a christian should.

Ginger Snaps
Feb 28th 2008, 02:41 AM
It is OK to drink, but it is not OK to get drunk.

Greedy or excessive indulgence in alcohol is the sin.

Hope this helps.
Ginger Snaps

Thermodynamics
Feb 28th 2008, 01:28 PM
Hiya Toolman (and fellow Texan). :)

I'm curious...why do you think God required Nazarites to abstain from alcohol when they were separating themselves from the world and to God?

God also required Nazarites never to cut their hair.:lol: