PDA

View Full Version : What's in it for Russia?



Lighthope
Feb 28th 2008, 09:50 PM
Common belief today is that Russia will make a pact with Iran and, along with other Muslim nations, attack Israel.

Now, I can understand why the Muslims will attack Israel...they are doing the will of Satan. But I can't quite put my finger on what is in it for Russia. Iran and the Middle East don't have anything Russia needs, other than a trading partner. What is Russia going to get out of an attack on Israel?

Here is the (physical, not spiritual) reason why the attack is going to end in defeat for Russia:

Russia is seen as a massive military power, yet that power in actuality is decayed. Israel incursions into Syria proved that Russian defences are easily penetrated. The recent naval exercise by the Russian fleet showed that it can barely field a fleet. There is no reason not to expect the army is in any better shape. Certainly it's nuclear arsenal is a mess. Putin and his puppet are trying to fix all that, but my guess is that Russia is going to vastly overestimate its military power and get blasted into vapour when they finally march on Israel.

What will happen to the United States? Depends on when the invasion takes place. I can't quite place when Russia invades Israel. The result of the invasion is that Israel burns Russian armament for seven years. But when does that seven years take place? Start of the Tribulation? Who says? Perhaps the burning continues on into the Millennial Kingdom?

My current thinking (and it will likely change a thousand times) is that we will have conflicts -- perhaps even limited nuclear -- which will usher in the Ten Kingdoms and the Little Horn of Daniel (Antichrist). Sometime in the middle, we will have a massive nuclear war. At this point, the US is out of the game. So is Russia. Then China will take centre stage and invade, crossing the Euphrates and into Armageddon.

And they all lived happily ever after...until......

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - "An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a bench passes like a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove passes line an hour. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein

Codger
Feb 28th 2008, 10:22 PM
Common belief today is that Russia will make a pact with Iran and, along with other Muslim nations, attack Israel.

Now, I can understand why the Muslims will attack Israel...they are doing the will of Satan. But I can't quite put my finger on what is in it for Russia. Iran and the Middle East don't have anything Russia needs, other than a trading partner. What is Russia going to get out of an attack on Israel?

Here is the (physical, not spiritual) reason why the attack is going to end in defeat for Russia:

Russia is seen as a massive military power, yet that power in actuality is decayed. Israel incursions into Syria proved that Russian defences are easily penetrated. The recent naval exercise by the Russian fleet showed that it can barely field a fleet. There is no reason not to expect the army is in any better shape. Certainly it's nuclear arsenal is a mess. Putin and his puppet are trying to fix all that, but my guess is that Russia is going to vastly overestimate its military power and get blasted into vapour when they finally march on Israel.

What will happen to the United States? Depends on when the invasion takes place. I can't quite place when Russia invades Israel. The result of the invasion is that Israel burns Russian armament for seven years. But when does that seven years take place? Start of the Tribulation? Who says? Perhaps the burning continues on into the Millennial Kingdom?

My current thinking (and it will likely change a thousand times) is that we will have conflicts -- perhaps even limited nuclear -- which will usher in the Ten Kingdoms and the Little Horn of Daniel (Antichrist). Sometime in the middle, we will have a massive nuclear war. At this point, the US is out of the game. So is Russia. Then China will take centre stage and invade, crossing the Euphrates and into Armageddon.

And they all lived happily ever after...until......

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - "An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a bench passes like a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove passes line an hour. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein

Common belief among whom? Futurists are the only ones who hold this view. Ezek 38-39 are long past. Futurists are actually in the minority, but seem to hold most of the microphones. Therefore they only appear to be the majority view.

If it were not for George Bush 41 - Israel would have been devistated and thrust into war back in 1991. General Georges Sada the number two man in the Iraqi Air Force stated that Saddam, after the invasion of Kuwait, orderd an airstrike on israel with 98 aircraft laden with chemical weapons. Then GB 41 attacked Saddam in Kuwait and the order was cancelled. Had they not taken the time to retrofit the planes with additional fuel tanks for the round trip - the strike would probably have proceeded.

This was a real threat - the Ezekiel threat is just contrived fantasy. Why in the world would a prophet prophesy something that wouldn't happen for 2,600 years? About 50 years ago when I was fifteen years old they were talking about the Invasion of Israel by Russia, which was then imminent. So also was the end times which was to be no later than 1988. Then it was updated to 2007; and now I guess it is 2012 or something.

Teke
Feb 28th 2008, 10:52 PM
The Russians have no interest in Israel. They are far to busy with other things in their country.

Lighthope
Feb 28th 2008, 10:52 PM
Why in the world would a prophet prophesy something that wouldn't happen for 2,600 years?

Daniel did. I think your question is something you want to ask God, not us. :pray:

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - Ever get the feeling your guardian angel is laughing?

Lighthope
Feb 28th 2008, 10:57 PM
The Russians have no interest in Israel.

But they will (or perhaps already do). That is the question I am asking: what is it?

Some speculate that Israel is sitting on a whole gob of oil. Russia has its own, but maybe they might want to take out a rival to OPEC?

Always interesting to speculate.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - "Because no one suspects the BUTTERFLY!" - Bart Simpson (The Simpsons)

Codger
Feb 28th 2008, 10:58 PM
Daniel did. I think your question is something you want to ask God, not us. :pray:

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - Ever get the feeling your guardian angel is laughing?

Thus says the Futurist interpretation. Daniel was told it was for a log way off and it was - about 600 years to the Fall of Jerusalem. It ended there.

Lighthope
Feb 28th 2008, 11:36 PM
Thus says the Futurist interpretation. Daniel was told it was for a log way off and it was - about 600 years to the Fall of Jerusalem. It ended there.

That's not what the prophecy says. It says "the time of the end". The Fall of Jerusalem was not the "time of the end" as we are all still here and the prophecy details End of Age events which did not occur at the Fall of Jerusalem.

However, since you deem this topic to be Futurist which you do not ascribe to, then the topic is irrelevant speculation for you. I would prefer this thread not to be derailed by off topic subjects as to whether Daniel or Ezekiel referred to contemporary or End of Age events.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Teke
Feb 28th 2008, 11:44 PM
But they will (or perhaps already do). That is the question I am asking: what is it?

Some speculate that Israel is sitting on a whole gob of oil. Russia has its own, but maybe they might want to take out a rival to OPEC?

Always interesting to speculate.


Speculation of conspiracy theories is a hobby for some people.

I'm just giving you the facts according to Russians. Their country is still in the process of redeveloping. Unless Israel can help with that, I do not see what Russia would want from them. :dunno:

Codger
Feb 29th 2008, 01:56 AM
That's not what the prophecy says. It says "the time of the end". The Fall of Jerusalem was not the "time of the end" as we are all still here and the prophecy details End of Age events which did not occur at the Fall of Jerusalem.

However, since you deem this topic to be Futurist which you do not ascribe to, then the topic is irrelevant speculation for you. I would prefer this thread not to be derailed by off topic subjects as to whether Daniel or Ezekiel referred to contemporary or End of Age events.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Awwww... you shouldn't contradict Peter who said the day of Pentecost was the fulfillment and beginning of the prophesy of Joel.

Acts 2:14-21 (NASB)
But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea, and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give heed to my words. [15] "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; [16] but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:

[17] 'And it shall be in the last days,' God says,
'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all MANKIND;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
[18] Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.

MessiahsFollower
Feb 29th 2008, 02:14 AM
The Russians have no interest in Israel. They are far to busy with other things in their country.

Oh but they do. Dead Sea is full of mineral rich deposits. Russias economy has been in shambles ever since the fall of the old Soviet Union....they have assisted Iran in nuclear build up for years. Ezekial 38 and 39 are closer than ever to coming to fruition when? Who knows next week, next year? Theres a lot in it for the Russians. Russia is an athiests country and detest Israel, Irans Islamic faction is a known hater of Israel.

My heart's Desire
Feb 29th 2008, 03:30 AM
I've always been curious to know how people think futurists or any other view is the minority. Are there current stats to show this? Proof?
Anyway, if the view is correct who is to know that oil may play a factor in the invasion? And yes, the minerals...are they not useful and needed for many, many things? Perhaps it has more to do with whatever interests that Russia has with Iran? Frankly, I don't know.

markdrums
Feb 29th 2008, 03:30 AM
That's not what the prophecy says. It says "the time of the end". The Fall of Jerusalem was not the "time of the end" as we are all still here and the prophecy details End of Age events which did not occur at the Fall of Jerusalem.

However, since you deem this topic to be Futurist which you do not ascribe to, then the topic is irrelevant speculation for you. I would prefer this thread not to be derailed by off topic subjects as to whether Daniel or Ezekiel referred to contemporary or End of Age events.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met.

Russia has nothing to do with ANY of this...
Also, "The time of the end" referred to the end of "The OLD COVENANT / Sacrificial Age / Mosaic Law / Coming (birth) of the Messiah".
Which was fulfilled.

Russia, Iran, The U.S.A; "Israel" (or insert country of choice) are not specifically / individually significant nowadays, concerning Prophecy.

The last prophecies awaiting fulfillment are:
"The Rapture" (or the "harvest" -which is the FINAL day, when ALL people of every generation; past, present, or future are "caught up" to stand before God.)
Restoration of New Heavens & New Earth.
Eternity of re-established perfection / Paradise. (*paraphrasing*)

I see far too much "ancient mysticism" / current events / conspiracy / Sci-Fi Imaginative speculations, in many people's assumptions of eschatology..... (References to the Mayan Calendar, Nostradamus, CNN, "Left-Behind".... etc.)

I truly believe there are multitudes of people reading "Prophetic" portions of the Bible (Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation, Olivet Discourse) but not getting familiar with the REST of the Bible.
Everyone wants to know "What's gonna' happen??" But they don't have the desire to learn "What HAPPENED, and WHY it happened". They miss the foundational language of the Bible because they fast-forward to the "END"..... never picking up the clues & insight as to what certain phrases mean in their natural, biblical context.

So, forget about Russia when reading Revelation.
Forget Bill Gates, George Bush, all the leaders in the Middle-East, whose names I can't pronounce, let alone spell......(you get the idea...)

Do I think people are really starting to "fall away"? YES!
Does today look and sound like the previous examples of Apostacy mentioned in the Bible? YES!

It's true we could be in the "End Times". But I'm talking about "THE end".
As in;
The FINAL Days.... VERY END....Rapture (of everyone) Full Return of Jesus, & the Restoration of Heaven & Earth.....

Only time will tell, & Only GOD knows.... Not CNN, NOT Hal Lindsey, Not the newspapers..........

My heart's Desire
Feb 29th 2008, 03:39 AM
Why in the world would a prophet prophesy something that wouldn't happen for 2,600 years?
And why would they not? How long was the foretelling of Jesus before He was born? If I'm saying it correctly, it was first alluded to in Genesis in the crushing of the serpent's head and on through Scripture.

My heart's Desire
Feb 29th 2008, 03:57 AM
Russia has nothing to do with ANY of this...
Also, "The time of the end" referred to the end of "The OLD COVENANT / Sacrificial Age / Mosaic Law / Coming (birth) of the Messiah".
Which was fulfilled.

Russia, Iran, The U.S.A; "Israel" (or insert country of choice) are not specifically / individually significant nowadays, concerning Prophecy.

The last prophecies awaiting fulfillment are:
"The Rapture" (or the "harvest" -which is the FINAL day, when ALL people of every generation; past, present, or future are "caught up" to stand before God.)
Restoration of New Heavens & New Earth.
Eternity of re-established perfection / Paradise. (*paraphrasing*)

I see far too much "ancient mysticism" / current events / conspiracy / Sci-Fi Imaginative speculations, in many people's assumptions of eschatology..... (References to the Mayan Calendar, Nostradamus, CNN, "Left-Behind".... etc.)

I truly believe there are multitudes of people reading "Prophetic" portions of the Bible (Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation, Olivet Discourse) but not getting familiar with the REST of the Bible.
Everyone wants to know "What's gonna' happen??" But they don't have the desire to learn "What HAPPENED, and WHY it happened". They miss the foundational language of the Bible because they fast-forward to the "END"..... never picking up the clues & insight as to what certain phrases mean in their natural, biblical context.

So, forget about Russia when reading Revelation.
Forget Bill Gates, George Bush, all the leaders in the Middle-East, whose names I can't pronounce, let alone spell......(you get the idea...)

Do I think people are really starting to "fall away"? YES!
Does today look and sound like the previous examples of Apostacy mentioned in the Bible? YES!

It's true we could be in the "End Times". But I'm talking about "THE end".
As in;
The FINAL Days.... VERY END....Rapture (of everyone) Full Return of Jesus, & the Restoration of Heaven & Earth.....

Only time will tell, & Only GOD knows.... Not CNN, NOT Hal Lindsey, Not the newspapers..........Though I disagree with some of your comment, I will agree that many may see as it were ghosts behind every door where there is none. True, Russia may not be in Revelation but very well could be in Daniel although I'm not so sure of that myself, but they could be.
I believe there are just as many multitudes who DO know the rest of their Bible as well as the Prophets. As far as apostasy..if something is sending people away from the true faith in Jesus then apostasy is present. To be watchful seemed to be one of our Lord's themes. Why be watchful if there is nothing to see?

markdrums
Feb 29th 2008, 05:17 AM
Though I disagree with some of your comment, I will agree that many may see as it were ghosts behind every door where there is none. True, Russia may not be in Revelation but very well could be in Daniel although I'm not so sure of that myself, but they could be.
I believe there are just as many multitudes who DO know the rest of their Bible as well as the Prophets. As far as apostasy..if something is sending people away from the true faith in Jesus then apostasy is present. To be watchful seemed to be one of our Lord's themes. Why be watchful if there is nothing to see?

I have to say one thing:
Concerning the MOST important factor.... You really do "get it". ;)
yeah, people can debate over "eschatology".....
But the IMPORTANT thing is understanding that we ALWAYS need to be ready!
Apostacy was rampant in Noah's time... It was Rampant when the temples were destroyed.... AND.... It's looking very similar NOWADAYS....
So, Jesus' return "could be" just around the corner....
Or... maybe in ANOTHER 2000 years????
LOL!!! ;)

Either way... It's gonna happen!

Warrior Prophet
Feb 29th 2008, 07:14 AM
just to address the original question what is in it for Russia

right now Iran and Russia are forming a natural gas business venture and this could also include other Arab nations who are in the talks but have not agreed yet

point is nations have gone to war over a lot less than watching a business partner get wiped out that will in turn cost them a fortune

so Russia may do it for no other reason than they know Iran will lose and to protect their business interest

RhymnRzn2Zion
Feb 29th 2008, 09:00 AM
................

Teke
Feb 29th 2008, 02:10 PM
Oh but they do. Dead Sea is full of mineral rich deposits. Russias economy has been in shambles ever since the fall of the old Soviet Union....they have assisted Iran in nuclear build up for years. Ezekial 38 and 39 are closer than ever to coming to fruition when? Who knows next week, next year? Theres a lot in it for the Russians. Russia is an athiests country and detest Israel, Irans Islamic faction is a known hater of Israel.

I have numerous Russian friends in my church. In case you didn't know, Russia's first king chose Christianity as the religion of his country for his people. Russia has always been a Christian nation. Communist oppression tried to do away with Christianity there. Thousands of Orthodox Christians died.

Russia was the first to bring Christianity to America. One of the first Christian martyrs in America was Peter the Aluet, who the Roman catholics tried to convert, upon his refusal he was tortured and killed where what is now California.

One can read numerous stories of Russia and Christianity, as well as speak to any Russian on the matter. One lady I know, in her twenties now, told of how her grandmother secretly had her baptized during communist rule.

So if anything, I would say we all need to pray for Russia and her people.

Lighthope
Feb 29th 2008, 06:53 PM
Awwww... you shouldn't contradict Peter who said the day of Pentecost was the fulfillment and beginning of the prophesy of Joel.

Acts 2:14-21 (NASB)
But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea, and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give heed to my words. [15] "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; [16] but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:

[17] 'And it shall be in the last days,' God says,
'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all MANKIND;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
[18] Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.

*Sigh*

I didn't say "last days". I said "time of the end" as per Daniel.

We can go over and over how these prophecies have not yet been fulfilled, but that is for a different thread which I have already stated.

:B

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - Can you repeat the part after "Listen very carefully?"

dan
Mar 4th 2008, 08:43 AM
...Russia have to gain?

Soldiers! Russia's military is not what it used to be, true.
But, more than that, is an act of solidarity with the mid-east countries will give them another chance at the US.
Old Communists never die, they start new revolutions.
In addition, how about deniability? A terrorist attack, some claim, leaves the victim without a target for retribution (don't tell GW).:rofl:

Remember Achmadenajad had a conference in December 2006 with the title, "A World Without Zionism". In this briefing, he showed how, if the US were destroyed, it would be a simple thing for Russia, Syria, (Libya, Ethiopia)and Iran to destroy Israel. That IS the plan. Just as God has planned it! :lol:

EZEK 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

EZEK 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
EZEK 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Mountains shall be thrown down? I don't think this has happened yet.

EZEK 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

There's the why. Just like the commercial: (softly) Can you hear me now? (Max volume) CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?:lol:

Lighthope
Mar 5th 2008, 04:15 AM
In addition, how about deniability? A terrorist attack, some claim, leaves the victim without a target for retribution

It's kind of hard to deny when you've got a ton of soldiers marching down on Israel.

That's kind of what I was wondering. Why? Would Russia really attack Israel just to show solidarity with Iran? There's got to be something more.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - "No one has ever died an atheist." - Plato

dan
Mar 5th 2008, 07:05 PM
It's kind of hard to deny when you've got a ton of soldiers marching down on Israel.

That's kind of what I was wondering. Why? Would Russia really attack Israel just to show solidarity with Iran? There's got to be something more.

Lighthope

Pearls of Wisdom - "No one has ever died an atheist." - Plato

...Your right.
Showing solidarity is just for getting what they want.
God is a terrible thing to a Communist. A belief that only a fool would allow himself to fall into.
A defeat for the US and Israel would be proof that the Communists were right all along, in their eyes.
And they're so sure that they cannot lose that argument, because there is no God, in their opinion.