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BlueCandle
Mar 1st 2008, 12:39 AM
Here is a very interesting video of "camps" that are being built around the United States of America.

I recommend that for those who wish to respond to my question, that those people click on the following link and watch this video before giving an answer. That way they will better understand the question.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=215

My question is simple. Does anyone have a logical explanation for what the places in the video are, why they exist, what they are being built for, who runs them, and why there are new things being added to them, ect. ect?

I am most interested to see what anybodies theories are.

teddyv
Mar 1st 2008, 12:51 AM
Here is a very interesting video of "camps" that are being built around the United States of America.

I recommend that for those who wish to respond to my question, that those people click on the following link and watch this video before giving an answer. That way they will better understand the question.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=215

My question is simple. Does anyone have a logical explanation for what the places in the video are, why they exist, what they are being built for, who runs them, and why there are new things being added to them, ect. ect?

I am most interested to see what anybodies theories are.

From what I've read, this is all nonsense and most stuff from Infowars and Prison Planet is ludicrous at best.;)

doppelganger
Mar 1st 2008, 04:20 AM
I watched the video, and it showed a single facility, not multiple "camps." The article talked about FEMA emergency shelters, but the video showed a facility that is not associated with FEMA as far as we know. The narrator put forth a bunch of unsupported theories about why the facility was designed in the manner shown.

Based on what I've seen from Alex Jones before, I consider him to be a crackpot.

One reason I don't buy into conspiracy theories in general is that I don't believe politicians are competent enough to pull off a mass conspiracy effectively.

cbalke
Mar 1st 2008, 11:22 AM
One reason I don't buy into conspiracy theories in general is that I don't believe politicians are competent enough to pull off a mass conspiracy effectively.

HAHAHAHAHA, ROFL!!!!! that's awesome, man. i'm with you on that one. :D

daughter
Mar 1st 2008, 02:55 PM
All joking aside, it does look like a prison complex.

diffangle
Mar 1st 2008, 03:51 PM
One reason I don't buy into conspiracy theories in general is that I don't believe politicians are competent enough to pull off a mass conspiracy effectively.
How effective was Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot?

diffangle
Mar 1st 2008, 06:45 PM
I haven't watched the video but if it's talking about Rex-84 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84)... it is very real.

BlueCandle
Mar 1st 2008, 10:26 PM
Bill Clinton's answer to a question about the FEMA CAMPS:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ05vt7iURE&feature=related

Matthew
Mar 2nd 2008, 03:17 AM
Alex Jones should start selling ocean front property in Arizona.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 2nd 2008, 04:18 AM
They're being built to house individuals deemed guilty of anti-American activities in a very broad sense. They will be considered "open" around the 2010-2011 timeframe.

Big T
Mar 2nd 2008, 05:11 AM
How effective was Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot?Not very..........

Athanasius
Mar 2nd 2008, 08:04 AM
From what I've read, this is all nonsense and most stuff from Infowars and Prison Planet is ludicrous at best.;)

Spit and chew; he's been right on a lot of things.

HisLeast
Mar 2nd 2008, 08:30 AM
They're being built to house individuals deemed guilty of anti-American activities in a very broad sense. They will be considered "open" around the 2010-2011 timeframe.

well thats more than a little scary

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 2nd 2008, 09:34 AM
It's also not serious. I just wanted to troll bait

MikeAD
Mar 2nd 2008, 10:18 AM
Here is a very interesting video of "camps" that are being built around the United States of America.

I recommend that for those who wish to respond to my question, that those people click on the following link and watch this video before giving an answer. That way they will better understand the question.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=215

My question is simple. Does anyone have a logical explanation for what the places in the video are, why they exist, what they are being built for, who runs them, and why there are new things being added to them, ect. ect?

I am most interested to see what anybodies theories are.

These are very real, and in fact are picking up information in the national press.

An article that ran in the San Francisco Chronicle and the Baltimore Sun is the first step in exposing this very evil plan:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/04/ED5OUPQJ7.DTL


Hopefully national media continues to pick up on these issues, but only time will tell how this plays out.

Big T
Mar 2nd 2008, 03:49 PM
They're just television sets for a new reality show WB's newest reality show (http://origin.theonion.com/content/node/29542) Here's a link to it

HisLeast
Mar 2nd 2008, 04:10 PM
They're just television sets for a new reality show WB's newest reality show (http://origin.theonion.com/content/node/29542) Here's a link to it

:rofl: I read through that article twice with my mough hanging around my knees. Before I was about to prognosticate on how unfathomable it was, the page finished loading and displayed "The Onion" banner at the top.

BlueCandle
Mar 2nd 2008, 10:02 PM
****Please read the thread about posting links, thank you, Big T*****

diffangle
Mar 3rd 2008, 11:57 PM
Not very..........
Millions dead... not very? :(

Chris In O.C.
Mar 4th 2008, 02:24 AM
My question is simple. Does anyone have a logical explanation for what the places in the video are, why they exist, what they are being built for, who runs them, and why there are new things being added to them, ect. ect?
FEMA will operate them, but they're being built by the Halliburton corporation
under government contract

I've been doing alot of research and we are going to start seeing some
major events taking place here in the US and abroad

Consider the following...

- North American Union goes into effect some time around 2010 effectively
ending US sovereingty and the abolishment of our constitution
- Real ID act becomes law soon requiring all US citizens to carry a card
embedded with a RFID tracking chip
- A US-Iran war now seems inevitable, which would stress an already weary
and exhausted US military force, as well as send gas prices into the $5.00/gal
range or even higher
- Our leaders continue to warn us of another terror attack on US soil that
would "make 9/11 look like a car accident."
- A credit crunch is pushing the US economy to the brink of ruin, and the
dollar is losing value with each passing day

All these events are going to create a rather tumultuous environment to say
the very least, and we will see civil unrest like never before, and with civil
unrest you get alot of rowdy, boisterous and troublesome people.

We can keep our heads in the sand for as long as we want, but a day of
reckoning is upon us, and all the advice I can offer is to please make sure
you have made your peace with God before it's too late

Chris

BlueCandle
Mar 4th 2008, 02:37 AM
Here are two videos of an "internment camp" in Texas:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TxYxTly-yo8&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mntQogvuRI8&feature=related

The privatized Hutto "jail", which is also administered by Homeland Security and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), contains more than just people who came over the boarder illegally. In fact, here is an article about palestinian refugees and CHILDREN being held in that camp:

http://www.counterpunch.org/moses12192006.html

In fact, Most of them are families including pregnant women and children who have never been accused of any wrongdoing but are forced to endure squalid conditions inside literal concentration camps.

Allied to the burgeoning growth of the prison industry and future plans to detain American citizens on masse, new plans have revived the potential scope of the camp, and a new contract to intern 600 individuals was finalized with immigration authorities in December 2005.

The facility is euphemistically called a "Residential Center," yet charges of overcrowding and poor conditions are rife, with an estimated 645 people filling a facility that has only 512 beds, as this article from the Texas Civil Rights Review clearly states -

http://texascivilrightsreview.org/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=708

Innocent children should not be jailed and forced to live under traumatizing and dehumanizing conditions. Plain and simple. Suspicions will undoubtedly be cast as to whether the facility in Tyler is part of a wider agenda to set up a network of internment camps that will be used to forcibly detain American citizens under emergency provisions. And I think all Americans should be concerned when these camps are popping up everywhere.

People, please. The government can eventually use them for whatever they want to. How many need to be built before we all stop them?

thunderbyrd
Mar 4th 2008, 07:25 PM
the human beings involved with putting these camps together might have alot of different ideas about what they are doing, mostly false. in reality, satan plans to use them to segregate Bible-believing Christians from the rest of the population.

BlueCandle
Mar 5th 2008, 01:15 AM
Here is a 9 part series on the concentration camps in the USA:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9wgXl_3Lk&feature=related (Part 1)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc9aoCaWnoQ&feature=related (Part 2)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiQqPGZI60w&feature=related (Part 3)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k7y41AJQyhg&feature=related (Part 4)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W7xvJjHQzmY&feature=related (Part 5)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KTAFBow0_So&feature=related (Part 6)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzmgripQUnU&feature=related (Part 7)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oyxXYq4zpA0&feature=related (Part 8)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B01jK9ZbBNk&feature=related (Part 9)

HisLeast
Mar 5th 2008, 03:11 AM
The funny thing is, those Youtube threads are riddled with people who live in the locations with perfectly reasonable explanations for what the video is displaying.

BlueCandle
Mar 6th 2008, 03:03 AM
Well, here's one citizen who is up to speed on whats going on in the United States of America:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vFNAEYQkD3s

BlueCandle
Mar 6th 2008, 03:04 AM
Here is the actual United States Homeland Security document that outlines the plan to build "Detention Camps" all around the United States:

http://cryptogon.com/docs/endgame.pdf

It doesn't get any better than the actual document folks.

teddyv
Mar 6th 2008, 03:23 AM
Here is the actual United States Homeland Security document that outlines the plan to build "Detention Camps" all around the United States:

http://cryptogon.com/docs/endgame.pdf

It doesn't get any better than the actual document folks.

Although I didn't read all 49 pages of that document, it seems to only be in regard to detention of illegal aliens and illegal immigration issues.

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 6th 2008, 12:14 PM
A clue as to where Harman's commission might be aiming is the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, a law that labels those who "engage in sit-ins, civil disobedience, trespass, or any other crime in the name of animal rights" as terrorists. Other groups in the crosshairs could be anti-abortion protesters, anti-tax agitators, immigration activists, environmentalists, peace demonstrators, Second Amendment rights supporters ... the list goes on and on. According to author Naomi Wolf, the National Counterterrorism Center holds the names of roughly 775,000 "terror suspects" with the number increasing by 20,000 per month.

While the article from The San Fransisco Chronicle purports a certain air of paranoia stemming from enormous speculation with little fact, I found the above, especially the part in red, interesting. There are over 80 million gun owners in this country - actually, and most likely, far, far more: The 80 million number does not account for unregistered firearms not purchased on a 4473, which is how the majority of us purchase our used guns. Regardless, even 80 million gun owners are a formidable opposition to any 2A roundup the rodeo clowns of congress would attempt to enact.

Coupled with the military's disdain to play government puppet against her own people, I cannot cite this article with any sense of credibility. I am at a loss to explain the authors' intent, as they dance towards the idea that a conspiracy is in the works without citing specific motives or instances for any necessitated action of the sorts.

The war on terror, surrogate parent of the Department of Homeland Defense and the Transportation Security Administration, has succumbed American citizens to a myriad of task-related restrictions in freedoms - this is no secret, of course. For the most part, I support their mission. I do not, however, foresee "detention camps" in our Nation's future for any peoples not overtly involved in actual terrorism, domestic or otherwise.

I am extremely skeptical to tout anything associated with these "detention camps" as menacing or intentionally reserved for government imprisonment of individuals whose only crime is expression of freedom as an American citizen. Those that are not American citizens--illegal aliens--are on their own and not entitled to freedoms the rest of us have inalienable rights to.

I don't think worrying over this should be on one's list of priorities. But that, of course, is simply my unrequested opinion.

diffangle
Mar 6th 2008, 03:12 PM
http://www.scn.org/ccapa/

The problem with the Patriot Act:


The primary problem with the US Patriot Act is best summarized by the US Supreme Court:
“Does the Constitution permit Executive officials to detain an American citizen indefinitely in military custody in the United States, hold him essentially incommunicado and deny him access to counsel, with no opportunity to question the factual basis for his detention before any impartial tribunal...” Unfortunately, the Supreme Court delivered a mixed verdict (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/28june20041215/www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/03pdf/03-6696.pdf) relative to this case (03-6696 Hamdi v. Rumsfeld (http://www.supremecourtus.gov/qp/03-06696qp.pdf)) in that it was ruled that the U.S. government has the power to hold American citizens and foreign nationals without charges or trial, but that detainees can challenge their treatment in U.S. courts.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 6th 2008, 04:08 PM
Who needs habeas corpus?

diffangle
Mar 6th 2008, 04:12 PM
Who needs habeas corpus?
Ba humbug!

15 characters

MikeAD
Mar 6th 2008, 07:44 PM
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

Here is the actual text of H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 which will probably pass through Senate, and wll surely have the "Yes" vote from McCain, Clinton, and Obama.

Those who protests for animal rights or against abortion (or for abortion for that matter) will soon be officially titled terrorists.

Matthew
Mar 6th 2008, 11:37 PM
http://www.scn.org/ccapa/

The problem with the Patriot Act:


The primary problem with the US Patriot Act is best summarized by the US Supreme Court:
“Does the Constitution permit Executive officials to detain an American citizen indefinitely in military custody in the United States, hold him essentially incommunicado and deny him access to counsel, with no opportunity to question the factual basis for his detention before any impartial tribunal...” Unfortunately, the Supreme Court delivered a mixed verdict (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/28june20041215/www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/03pdf/03-6696.pdf) relative to this case (03-6696 Hamdi v. Rumsfeld (http://www.supremecourtus.gov/qp/03-06696qp.pdf)) in that it was ruled that the U.S. government has the power to hold American citizens and foreign nationals without charges or trial, but that detainees can challenge their treatment in U.S. courts.

As far as I can tell the Court's decision had nothing to do with the Patriot Act.


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

Here is the actual text of H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 which will probably pass through Senate, and wll surely have the "Yes" vote from McCain, Clinton, and Obama.

Those who protests for animal rights or against abortion (or for abortion for that matter) will soon be officially titled terrorists.

I skimmed over it and I don't read it the same way. All I see is a bill that is likely to create a useless commission. Here are its powers:


`(i) Powers of Commission- The powers of the Commission shall be as follows:

`(1) IN GENERAL-

`(A) HEARINGS AND EVIDENCE- The Commission or, on the authority of the Commission, any subcommittee or member thereof, may, for the purpose of carrying out this section, hold hearings and sit and act at such times and places, take such testimony, receive such evidence, and administer such oaths as the Commission considers advisable to carry out its duties.

`(B) CONTRACTING- The Commission may, to such extent and in such amounts as are provided in appropriation Acts, enter into contracts to enable the Commission to discharge its duties under this section.

`(2) INFORMATION FROM FEDERAL AGENCIES-

`(A) IN GENERAL- The Commission may request directly from any executive department, bureau, agency, board, commission, office, independent establishment, or instrumentality of the Government, information, suggestions, estimates, and statistics for the purposes of this section. The head of each such department, bureau, agency, board, commission, office, independent establishment, or instrumentality shall, to the extent practicable and authorized by law, furnish such information, suggestions, estimates, and statistics directly to the Commission, upon request made by the Chair of the Commission, by the chair of any subcommittee created by a majority of the Commission, or by any member designated by a majority of the Commission.

`(B) RECEIPT, HANDLING, STORAGE, AND DISSEMINATION- The Committee and its staff shall receive, handle, store, and disseminate information in a manner consistent with the operative statutes, regulations, and Executive orders that govern the handling, storage, and dissemination of such information at the department, bureau, agency, board, commission, office, independent establishment, or instrumentality that responds to the request.

BlueCandle
Mar 7th 2008, 01:01 AM
Here is a video that shows Oliver North being questioned about the "continuity of government" that could end up placing millions of Americans in FEMA concentration camps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug0IL7k3elQ

thunderbyrd
Mar 7th 2008, 06:41 PM
A clue as to where Harman's commission might be aiming is the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, a law that labels those who "engage in sit-ins, civil disobedience, trespass, or any other crime in the name of animal rights" as terrorists. Other groups in the crosshairs could be anti-abortion protesters, anti-tax agitators, immigration activists, environmentalists, peace demonstrators, Second Amendment rights supporters ... the list goes on and on. According to author Naomi Wolf, the National Counterterrorism Center holds the names of roughly 775,000 "terror suspects" with the number increasing by 20,000 per month.

While the article from The San Fransisco Chronicle purports a certain air of paranoia stemming from enormous speculation with little fact, I found the above, especially the part in red, interesting. There are over 80 million gun owners in this country - actually, and most likely, far, far more: The 80 million number does not account for unregistered firearms not purchased on a 4473, which is how the majority of us purchase our used guns. Regardless, even 80 million gun owners are a formidable opposition to any 2A roundup the rodeo clowns of congress would attempt to enact.

Coupled with the military's disdain to play government puppet against her own people, I cannot cite this article with any sense of credibility. I am at a loss to explain the authors' intent, as they dance towards the idea that a conspiracy is in the works without citing specific motives or instances for any necessitated action of the sorts.

The war on terror, surrogate parent of the Department of Homeland Defense and the Transportation Security Administration, has succumbed American citizens to a myriad of task-related restrictions in freedoms - this is no secret, of course. For the most part, I support their mission. I do not, however, foresee "detention camps" in our Nation's future for any peoples not overtly involved in actual terrorism, domestic or otherwise.

I am extremely skeptical to tout anything associated with these "detention camps" as menacing or intentionally reserved for government imprisonment of individuals whose only crime is expression of freedom as an American citizen. Those that are not American citizens--illegal aliens--are on their own and not entitled to freedoms the rest of us have inalienable rights to.

I don't think worrying over this should be on one's list of priorities. But that, of course, is simply my unrequested opinion.


it's all in how the word "terrorist" is defined and who it's applied to. the definition of "terrorism" can be changed to suit any agenda.

BlueCandle
Mar 7th 2008, 08:16 PM
Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez (RIP), admitted that there are actual plans to detain American citizens in the case of what the government would consider to be "terrorism".

Congressman Henry Gonzales (D,Tx) stated:

"The truth is yes...the plans are here... whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism... evoke the military and arrest Americans and put them in detention camps."


Here is an article in The Federal Observer which covered Mr. Gonzales's comments:

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=753


Here is a little more info about Congressman Gonzales:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/29/bc.obit.gonzalez.ap/


Here is a video of Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez giving his famous speech about how there are plans right now, for the arresting of American citizens and the holding of American Citizens in detention camps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXh7DCptaQ...rationcamps.htm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpXh7DCptaQ&eurl=http://www.fight4truth.com/concentrationcamps.htm)

CANADIAN BACON
Mar 7th 2008, 09:25 PM
If I may I'll remove my halo for a moment and engage in a little political banter.:idea:
Being Canadian I see things from a different location. Here in the great white north things are happening in a different way.
It"s called social engineering.
Our socialist government has engaged in many new laws. They are trying to criminalize the use of firearms and have legalized Homosexuality. Drugs are a fact of life , along with abortion.Our school system is totally corrupt with a 50% grade average being acceptable. The Canadian police RCMP are running around out of control. I speak from personal experience.
In 2003 I hung a govt official in effigy at a protest. I now have a criminal record although I was never charged or even approached by the police.
In 2005 we were target shooting on my own property and later that day the RCMP showed up and asked if we were shooting. I said yes. They entered my house and took my guns from the wall. No Search Warrant , just walked in and nothing I could do about it. Seems someone was trespassing on my property and reported my shooting to the police. I got the guns back the next day , but still.
In Canada we do not have any private property rights and no right to protect ones self. If some one steals from you , you may retrieve the stolen goods as long as you don't put your hand on the thief. These aren't my words , they come out of our criminal code.
Your President now can take control of the national guard. Is that an army?
Your homeland security is growing by leaps and bounds. ?????
All the Road Apples aside your still the best country in the world.:hug:

teddyv
Mar 7th 2008, 10:38 PM
In 2003 I hung a govt official in effigy at a protest. I now have a criminal record although I was never charged or even approached by the police.
I'd like to hear how that happened or is even possible.

BlueCandle
Mar 11th 2008, 03:23 AM
Congressman Jim McDermot made a speech about the "internment camps" and the rounding up of American citizens during Martial Law in the United States:

http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp030311.shtml

In the speech, Congressman Jim McDermot said:

"From 1982 to 1984, Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defense preparations. Details of those plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal. They included executive orders providing for suspension of the Constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the President and FEMA."

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 11th 2008, 02:55 PM
Your President now can take control of the national guard. Is that an army?

That is nothing new. The National Guard has been federalized since World War 1. He can only do that if the state governors let him. ;)

MikeAD
Mar 12th 2008, 12:21 AM
That is nothing new. The National Guard has been federalized since World War 1. He can only do that if the state governors let him. ;)

I thought just recently (last 1.5 years) it was changed to now the President has total control over the National Guard in each state. That is, to say, that the Governor can't say no.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 12th 2008, 12:45 AM
Wow, I hadn't heard of that! Link please? (I'm lazy)

MikeAD
Mar 12th 2008, 12:53 AM
Wow, I hadn't heard of that! Link please? (I'm lazy)

Alright I will find one, if it exists. Im not claiming its true, just what I've heard on a regular basis. But then again I hear a lot of things.

Well here I go...


http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=170453

Perhaps that will do?

And heres the response by governors:

http://www.nga.org/portal/site/nga/menuitem.cb6e7818b34088d18a278110501010a0/?vgnextoid=0a05e362c5f5d010VgnVCM1000001a01010aRCR D



Once again, I don't know what is true anymore, so Im just commenting.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 12th 2008, 02:58 PM
Whaaaaaaat!? :o

HisLeast
Mar 12th 2008, 03:13 PM
Well... thats what we get when we listen to incompetants like Nagy & Blanco. The two people who should have been aware of the New Orleans deathtrap... the two people who should have had a plan... the two people who utterly ignored what little plan they had were left doing what all weak and spineless public "leaders" do when their incompetance is exposed: they blamed the federal government. I wish those of us who were bewildered by the attentive ear they received had spoken up louder at the time.

If the federal government ever abuses this power, I hope they send Nagy and Blanco a big ole hunk of cheese that they can eat with their w(h)ine.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 12th 2008, 03:26 PM
Yeah, for real, those 2 were the root cause of the problem and what do the ignorant masses do? Re-elect them, but keep complaining. :rolleyes:

BlueCandle
Mar 12th 2008, 09:47 PM
Daniel Hamburg is a former Democratic Congressman who was elected to the 1st Congressional District of California in 1992 and also subsequently ran for Governor of California, finishing in 3rd place.

Hamburg co-wrote a well-received recent article carried by the San Francisco Chronicle in which he outlined the program to incarcerate American citizens in internment camps, which have already been publicly built, during a time of declared national emergency.

Here is the article that former Congressman Daniel Hamburg wrote about these "prison" camps for American citizens.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...4/ED5OUPQJ7.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/04/ED5OUPQJ7.DTL)

In the article, former Congressman Hamburg states that:

"Since 9/11, and seemingly without the notice of most Americans, the federal government has assumed the authority to institute martial law, arrest a wide swath of dissidents (citizen and noncitizen alike), and detain people without legal or constitutional recourse in the event of "an emergency influx of immigrants in the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs."

But I have already stated before that I think what the government claims these camps are for and what they are really for is two different things. They aren't permanently for illegal aliens because our government is currently pushing for the SPPA. A "north-american partnership" AKA North American Union AKA Open borders policy.

And again, they are not just being built in the USA, they are being built all over the World.

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 12th 2008, 10:14 PM
Whaaaaaaat!? :o

What's the big deal? NG and Reserves are paid with Federal monies, so why should the governor of a state have authority? Want to be a governor and in charge of the NG? Flip the bill for them.

A soldier is a soldier is a soldier. We swear our oath to the CIC, Guard or not, and NOT to the state governor.

It's like civilians saying that we serve for them. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

We serve the Nation via the orders of the Commander in Chief, overseen by Congress, and carried out by the Joint Chiefs. We then serve for each other in harm's way. No where in there is anything about serving state interest.

BlueCandle
Mar 13th 2008, 01:29 AM
What's the big deal? NG and Reserves are paid with Federal monies, so why should the governor of a state have authority? Want to be a governor and in charge of the NG? Flip the bill for them.

A soldier is a soldier is a soldier. We swear our oath to the CIC, Guard or not, and NOT to the state governor.

It's like civilians saying that we serve for them. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

We serve the Nation via the orders of the Commander in Chief, overseen by Congress, and carried out by the Joint Chiefs. We then serve for each other in harm's way. No where in there is anything about serving state interest.

And who does the entire government serve?

The civilians or themselves? The line is being blurred.

Your statement is certainly a scary one.

Basicly, from what you stated, I could see that you would follow an order from a military official or the Commander in Chief and disregard any order from the very people that the commander in Chief is supposed to be representing. That doesn't make sense at all.

Is that what you are saying? That no-matter what the consequences against civilians, you would follow any order from the CIC?

MikeAD
Mar 13th 2008, 01:54 AM
And who does the entire government serve?

The civilians or themselves? The line is being blurred.

Your statement is certainly a scary one.

Basicly, from what you stated, I could see that you would follow an order from a military official or the Commander in Chief and disregard any order from the very people that the commander in Chief is supposed to be representing. That doesn't make sense at all.

Is that what you are saying? That no-matter what the consequences against civilians, you would follow any order from the CIC?

Well doesn't the Commander in Chief know best? :rolleyes:

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 13th 2008, 01:23 PM
And who does the entire government serve?

The civilians or themselves? The line is being blurred.

Your statement is certainly a scary one.

Basicly, from what you stated, I could see that you would follow an order from a military official or the Commander in Chief and disregard any order from the very people that the commander in Chief is supposed to be representing. That doesn't make sense at all.

Is that what you are saying? That no-matter what the consequences against civilians, you would follow any order from the CIC?

Here we go.

This is stated like a typical civilian. The military has in place ways of disobeying illegal orders, and as part of a soldiers training, the definition of illegal orders are pounded into their heads.

If you're asking if we would follow an order from the President over random moron on the street, I am going to say "Yes" to the Preseident almost every time. Why? Because the random moron on the street has a narrow view of things and doesn't have as much awareness of the situation as the President.

What doesn't make sense about that? Why would I, a soldier, take orders from you, a civilian? Isn't that what people elect government officials for? ;)

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 13th 2008, 01:48 PM
And who does the entire government serve?

The civilians or themselves? The line is being blurred.

Your statement is certainly a scary one.

Basicly, from what you stated, I could see that you would follow an order from a military official or the Commander in Chief and disregard any order from the very people that the commander in Chief is supposed to be representing. That doesn't make sense at all.

Is that what you are saying? That no-matter what the consequences against civilians, you would follow any order from the CIC?

Absolutely not!!!!

I was making a distinction between state officiating and federal service. So please allow me to clarify on that, and then I'll address the issue of blindly carrying forth orders.

The National Guard serves the state they are stationed to, usually as a sister unit to a full-time (active duty) brigade assignment. So your question, simple on the surface, is much more complicated than it seems (which is why all these legal battles are coming about).

Because we -- these units in the NG -- belong to the federal side of the government arm, we are under their control. Thus, we answer to congress and the Joint Chiefs, who make the decisions for the president, and the president issues their orders as "official." The CIC may, of course, exercise his right to veto any decision, at which time no "official" order exists and, as the military, we cannot deploy in the wants of congressional decision.

Think of the NG as "on loan" to their states. Not owned by, but given control over to the local authorities. We still have to meet military protocol - haircut, physical standards, drug testing, weapon proficiency, and etc. We serve the Army, so the Army makes the rules, not the state authority (the governor). The governor is free to use us autonomously from any other Army mission at the time.

And that's where it gets tricky.

In a time of war, control of the NG falls back under the Army, which follows the orders of the CIC - the local authority to command is removed.

So the issue on the table is the result, very, very basically, of states not wanting their NG deployed to current deployments (Iraq, A-Stan, etc). The position of the federal government is that the NG is paid out of federal monies, which we are, so the state has no right to demand we do or do not deploy. This is the federal control bill being heard in the senate right now. Almost every state signed in protest of the federal government taking control of all NG units, stating that it violates agreement for federal monies shoveled into states that the NG was, contractually, part of.

So it's simply a matter of legal definition. We have never been fully under control of the state, and never paid by the state, but our presence is considered part of the obligation the federal government made to the state. It'll drive ya nuts thinking about it.

Now, I'm going to answer your other, main question (what I would do) in a different post, ok? I'd like to be able to elaborate without jumbling it into this post (as one is definition and one is obligation), so give me a few minutes for a fresh cup of coffee and I'll see what I can say about that.

God bless!

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 13th 2008, 02:25 PM
And who does the entire government serve?

The civilians or themselves? The line is being blurred.

Your statement is certainly a scary one.

Basicly, from what you stated, I could see that you would follow an order from a military official or the Commander in Chief and disregard any order from the very people that the commander in Chief is supposed to be representing. That doesn't make sense at all.

Is that what you are saying? That no-matter what the consequences against civilians, you would follow any order from the CIC?

Hi again!

I see that Clavicula_Nox entered a reply as I was typing my other. He, of course, is prior military just as I am. I agree with him to an extent, but I don't agree to another.

Is a police officer welcome to enforce or not enforce laws they don't agree with, or are they expected to enforce all laws equally?

Well, like a police officer, I had an oath to enforce the president's laws whether I agree with them or not. "You're being deployed to Iraq" does not mean, "Umm, would you like to maybe go to Iraq?" It means pack my TA-50, draw my weapon from the arms room, shut my mouth, and get on the bus.

So, in a very broad sense, I cannot choose which orders to follow. I go where the politicians point their finger in the direction of, and I do the mission I am expected to do as a soldier sworn under oath - the same oath NG soldiers swear. If they say shoot, I do. If they say don't shoot, I can't. I can't just tell them I don't want to because I don't agree - as I'm sure you know already.

The president makes the orders based on congressional decision - so, yes, given that congress is a group of civilians, I take orders from civilians. Bill Clinton never served, and I took his orders.

However...

America is a Republic, not a Democracy. In a Republic, the main body of civilians (citizens) elect representatives of their own state to represent that state's interests in the overall picture of the Union.

Thus, I take orders from the government YOU elected to tell me what to do as a soldier. I do not take orders outside of that from YOU, the American citizen. As a NG soldier (which I currently am not), you, the civilian, are to follow my orders when the NG is given authority in the state you live in if I am deployed in such a capacity. If they tell me, "Go confiscate Blue Candles' guns," I have no choice but to obey that order. And you will comply, or I will take you into custody per the congressional order you fall under.

But again, it's not that simple.

I'm not just a soldier, some robot you plug formulas into to get me to react and act. I serve the government because I care about this country, and this country isn't a country without its people - even those that choose not to serve in the capacity I chose to. Or maybe especially because of them? That's the MORAL code I swear to when I pull on my boots.

United we stand. That's me and you and everyone. No Army will dictate otherwise, not to me, and no Army will make me go against Constitutional Law and the Bill of Rights. My duty to the Army = my duty to you. The oath demands my compliance with the president, but it cannot and will not override the founding fathers' Republic ideals or lead me to intentionally violate your rights under them, because the CIC's oath is to you and the founding fathers. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

A moral dilemma men like myself face is the line we draw in this very precedent: Where my obligation to one ends and one begins, and where the line is, as you put it, blurred. All soldiers question this at one time or another, and no civilian will ever understand it.

Do I feel that I owe you, Candle Blue, or any other civilian anything? Not one bit. My Christian convictions aside (no one will EVER make me go against God's wishes and rules), I owe no one anything but the men and women that wear the same color boots as me. It can be no other way in a business where killing is the priority and the main source of income. My people (my soldiers) always come first. If you want the privilege they are afforded, do the job. Mutual respect.

But if the president steps over the line, which is something only we soldiers doing the job can decide, then my moral code and conviction would ascribe to me no duty to accept that - it would be an unlawful order, which I am protected from having to follow. It trumps my obligation to duty.

So whether or not I would follow an order that you agree with is irrelevant. I'm in the uniform, I am the man that must live with himself, so the decision is between God and me alone. And it honestly depends on the circumstances how I would react. I have to lose most of my humanity to pull a trigger, but they can't take it all.

Fair enough answer, my friend?

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 13th 2008, 07:42 PM
I think Richard covered it pretty well.

BlueCandle
Mar 14th 2008, 01:21 AM
Ritt Goldstein, an investigative reporter for the Herald, writes that recent pronouncements from the Bush administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States:

http://www.arizona.indymedia.org/news/2002/08/3646

In the article, Ritt Goldstein writes:

America as you know it is changing dramatically. The democratic freedoms which long defined American life are under siege. Today's Bush administration is moving towards America's military pursuing law enforcement, internment camps are on the horizon, and a member of the US Civil Rights Commission previously broached Arab-American internment.

Hidden behind FEMA’s benevolent face as the body whose chief responsibility is disaster relief, another FEMA exists. It is a FEMA that few know has been “charged by the Bush Administration with leading the nation’s anti-terrorism effort”, and a FEMA whose history includes nightmarish episodes in this vein.

Here is another article by Mr. Goldstein that details plans for Martial Law in the United States which was published in the Sydney, Australia, Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/...l?oneclick=true (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html?oneclick=true)

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 14th 2008, 01:35 AM
Ritt Goldstein, an investigative reporter for the Herald, writes that recent pronouncements from the Bush administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States:

http://www.arizona.indymedia.org/news/2002/08/3646

In the article, Ritt Goldstein writes:

America as you know it is changing dramatically. The democratic freedoms which long defined American life are under siege. Today's Bush administration is moving towards America's military pursuing law enforcement, internment camps are on the horizon, and a member of the US Civil Rights Commission previously broached Arab-American internment.

Hidden behind FEMA’s benevolent face as the body whose chief responsibility is disaster relief, another FEMA exists. It is a FEMA that few know has been “charged by the Bush Administration with leading the nation’s anti-terrorism effort”, and a FEMA whose history includes nightmarish episodes in this vein.

Here is another article by Mr. Goldstein that details plans for Martial Law in the United States which was published in the Sydney, Australia, Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/...l?oneclick=true (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html?oneclick=true)

So, not a single comment to the two soldiers you asked elaboration from?

redeemedbyhim
Mar 14th 2008, 04:20 AM
Hi again!

I see that Clavicula_Nox entered a reply as I was typing my other. He, of course, is prior military just as I am. I agree with him to an extent, but I don't agree to another.

Is a police officer welcome to enforce or not enforce laws they don't agree with, or are they expected to enforce all laws equally?

Well, like a police officer, I had an oath to enforce the president's laws whether I agree with them or not. "You're being deployed to Iraq" does not mean, "Umm, would you like to maybe go to Iraq?" It means pack my TA-50, draw my weapon from the arms room, shut my mouth, and get on the bus.

So, in a very broad sense, I cannot choose which orders to follow. I go where the politicians point their finger in the direction of, and I do the mission I am expected to do as a soldier sworn under oath - the same oath NG soldiers swear. If they say shoot, I do. If they say don't shoot, I can't. I can't just tell them I don't want to because I don't agree - as I'm sure you know already.

The president makes the orders based on congressional decision - so, yes, given that congress is a group of civilians, I take orders from civilians. Bill Clinton never served, and I took his orders.

However...

America is a Republic, not a Democracy. In a Republic, the main body of civilians (citizens) elect representatives of their own state to represent that state's interests in the overall picture of the Union.

Thus, I take orders from the government YOU elected to tell me what to do as a soldier. I do not take orders outside of that from YOU, the American citizen. As a NG soldier (which I currently am not), you, the civilian, are to follow my orders when the NG is given authority in the state you live in if I am deployed in such a capacity. If they tell me, "Go confiscate Blue Candles' guns," I have no choice but to obey that order. And you will comply, or I will take you into custody per the congressional order you fall under.

But again, it's not that simple.

I'm not just a soldier, some robot you plug formulas into to get me to react and act. I serve the government because I care about this country, and this country isn't a country without its people - even those that choose not to serve in the capacity I chose to. Or maybe especially because of them? That's the MORAL code I swear to when I pull on my boots.

United we stand. That's me and you and everyone. No Army will dictate otherwise, not to me, and no Army will make me go against Constitutional Law and the Bill of Rights. My duty to the Army = my duty to you. The oath demands my compliance with the president, but it cannot and will not override the founding fathers' Republic ideals or lead me to intentionally violate your rights under them, because the CIC's oath is to you and the founding fathers. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

A moral dilemma men like myself face is the line we draw in this very precedent: Where my obligation to one ends and one begins, and where the line is, as you put it, blurred. All soldiers question this at one time or another, and no civilian will ever understand it.

Do I feel that I owe you, Candle Blue, or any other civilian anything? Not one bit. My Christian convictions aside (no one will EVER make me go against God's wishes and rules), I owe no one anything but the men and women that wear the same color boots as me. It can be no other way in a business where killing is the priority and the main source of income. My people (my soldiers) always come first. If you want the privilege they are afforded, do the job. Mutual respect.

But if the president steps over the line, which is something only we soldiers doing the job can decide, then my moral code and conviction would ascribe to me no duty to accept that - it would be an unlawful order, which I am protected from having to follow. It trumps my obligation to duty.

So whether or not I would follow an order that you agree with is irrelevant. I'm in the uniform, I am the man that must live with himself, so the decision is between God and me alone. And it honestly depends on the circumstances how I would react. I have to lose most of my humanity to pull a trigger, but they can't take it all.

Fair enough answer, my friend?

I don't know about your "friend", but I'd vote for you for president!

I hope and pray all soldiers think like you do and thanks for a brillant summary.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 14th 2008, 02:11 PM
So, not a single comment to the two soldiers you asked elaboration from?

He's popping smoke...

BlueCandle
Mar 14th 2008, 10:25 PM
So, not a single comment to the two soldiers you asked elaboration from?

I would just like to say thank you for answering my questions. I see where you are coming from now. An evil order is indeed an order that should not be followed.

BlueCandle
Mar 14th 2008, 10:26 PM
Here is a copy of an article written by Jonathan Turley of the Los Angeles Times, On August 14th, 2002 entitled Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft’s Hellish Vision:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/CfCAHV.pdf

In the article, Jonathan Turley writes:

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft’s announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be "enemy combatants" has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace.

Ashcroft’s plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatants.

The proposed camp plan should trigger immediate congressional hearings and reconsideration of Ashcroft’s fitness for this important office. Whereas Al Qaeda is a threat to the lives of our citizens, Ashcroft has become a clear and present threat to our liberties.

The camp plan was forged at an optimistic time for Ashcroft’s small inner circle, which has been carefully watching to test cases to see whether this vision could become a reality.

The cases of Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi will determine whether U.S. citizens can be held without charges and subject to the arbitrary and unchecked authority of the government.

Jonathan Turley's Blog:

http://jonathanturley.org/

Matthew
Mar 15th 2008, 06:59 PM
Here is a copy of an article written by Jonathan Turley of the Los Angeles Times, On August 14th, 2002 entitled Camps for Citizens: Ashcroft’s Hellish Vision:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/CfCAHV.pdf

In the article, Jonathan Turley writes:

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft’s announced desire for camps for U.S. citizens he deems to be "enemy combatants" has moved him from merely being a political embarrassment to being a constitutional menace.

Ashcroft’s plan, disclosed last week but little publicized, would allow him to order the indefinite incarceration of U.S. citizens and summarily strip them of their constitutional rights and access to the courts by declaring them enemy combatants.

The proposed camp plan should trigger immediate congressional hearings and reconsideration of Ashcroft’s fitness for this important office. Whereas Al Qaeda is a threat to the lives of our citizens, Ashcroft has become a clear and present threat to our liberties.

The camp plan was forged at an optimistic time for Ashcroft’s small inner circle, which has been carefully watching to test cases to see whether this vision could become a reality.

The cases of Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi will determine whether U.S. citizens can be held without charges and subject to the arbitrary and unchecked authority of the government.

Jonathan Turley's Blog:

http://jonathanturley.org/

Hamdi was decided in 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamdi_v._Rumsfeld

BlueCandle
Mar 17th 2008, 04:37 PM
Nat Hentoff (born June 10, 1925) is an American historian, novelist, and columnist for the Village Voice, Legal Times, Washington Times, The Progressive, Editor & Publisher, Free Inquiry and Jewish World Review.

Nat Hentoff received his B.A. with the highest honors from Northeastern University and did graduate work at Harvard. He was a Fulbright fellow at the Sorbonne in Paris in 1950. From 1953 through 1957 he was associate editor of Down Beat magazine. He was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship in education and an American Bar Association Silver Gavel Award in 1980 for his coverage of the law and criminal justice in his columns. In 1985 he was awarded an honorary Doctorate of Laws by Northeastern University.

Here is an article by Nat Hentoff in the Village Voice in which he also outlines General Ashcroft's plans for Detention Camps in the United States:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0236,hentoff,38006,6.html

In the article, Hentoff states:

"Now more Americans are also going to be dispossessed of every fundamental legal right in our system of justice and put into camps."

Here is more info about Nat Hentoff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Hentoff

thunderbyrd
Mar 18th 2008, 04:56 AM
the strange enigma of john ashcroft: a pentacostal Christian, should know his Bible up down and back and forth, has surely heard a certain amount of teaching about the end-times...and was mid-wife to the biggest rape of the constitution in history.

Matthew
Mar 18th 2008, 11:12 PM
Nat Hentoff (born June 10, 1925) is an American historian, novelist, and columnist for the Village Voice, Legal Times, Washington Times, The Progressive, Editor & Publisher, Free Inquiry and Jewish World Review.

Nat Hentoff received his B.A. with the highest honors from Northeastern University and did graduate work at Harvard. He was a Fulbright fellow at the Sorbonne in Paris in 1950. From 1953 through 1957 he was associate editor of Down Beat magazine. He was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship in education and an American Bar Association Silver Gavel Award in 1980 for his coverage of the law and criminal justice in his columns. In 1985 he was awarded an honorary Doctorate of Laws by Northeastern University.

Here is an article by Nat Hentoff in the Village Voice in which he also outlines General Ashcroft's plans for Detention Camps in the United States:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0236,hentoff,38006,6.html

In the article, Hentoff states:

"Now more Americans are also going to be dispossessed of every fundamental legal right in our system of justice and put into camps."

Here is more info about Nat Hentoff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Hentoff


Why are you posting stuff about John Ashcroft. He's not the AG anymore and Hamdi was decided in 2004.


the strange enigma of john ashcroft: a pentacostal Christian, should know his Bible up down and back and forth, has surely heard a certain amount of teaching about the end-times...and was mid-wife to the biggest rape of the constitution in history.

He was pretty awful, but I think the Constitution has been put through much worse than him.

BlueCandle
Mar 19th 2008, 03:02 AM
Why are you posting stuff about John Ashcroft. He's not the AG anymore and Hamdi was decided in 2004.



He was pretty awful, but I think the Constitution has been put through much worse than him.

It's valid because the plans for the camps did not go away. And are in fact being implemented as we speak.

BlueCandle
Mar 19th 2008, 03:03 AM
Anita Ramasastry is a law professor at the University of Washington School of Law in Seattle and a director of the Shidler Center for Law, Commerce & Technology. She is also a regular columnist for the online legal commentary Writ.

Ramasastry earned a B.A. in 1988 from Harvard University, a M.A. in 1990 from University of Sydney, and a J.D. in 1992 from Harvard Law School.

Here is a CNN news article about Ashcrofts plan for detention camps in America done by Anita Ramasastry:

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/08/columns/fl.ramasastry.detainees/

In the article, Anita Ramasastry states:

Attorney General Ashcroft and the White House are considering creating military detention camps for all U.S. citizens deemed by the administration to be enemy combatants.

The internees will be deemed enemy combatants. By whom? By the military alone -- without any right to judicial review in a federal court or otherwise.

The government's position is that its own decision as to who is an enemy combatant is binding on federal courts, and that it need not even offer the courts individualized facts to support particular detention decisions.

We now are faced with a scary prospect -- indefinite detention of multiple citizens because the government decides they are dangerous. The mere suggestion of camps or group detention facilities implies that the Executive is, in fact, considering using its newfound citizen-combatant detention program on a broader scale.

Here is more information about Anita Ramasastry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Ramasastry

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 19th 2008, 03:08 AM
I once heard that 9/11 was done by the government because fire has never melted steel.

thunderbyrd
Mar 19th 2008, 06:53 AM
"He was pretty awful, but I think the Constitution has been put through much worse than him."

i respectfully disagree. we'll see the fruits of it for the rest of our lives. the dismantling of the rights of "possible muslim terrorists" this year will be the same for "possible Christian extremists" in 6 years or 10 years or 12 years from now. the precedent set by the bush administration's patriot act won't be reversed.

it all hinges, i guess, on if one believes we are in or on the brink of the "End Times" or not. i very strongly believe we are but i could be mistaken. but if we are near the end, i think there need to be certain systems of intelligence and control in place for the agents of the anti-christ to use to achieve the kind of total control they will want.

and a good old boy, literal Bible believing pentacostal helped 'em start putting it in place. puzzling to me.

teddyv
Mar 19th 2008, 03:38 PM
I once heard that 9/11 was done by the government because fire has never melted steel.

Please, please, please, let's not go down this route!:lol:

BlueCandle
Mar 21st 2008, 05:01 AM
Here is a Pacific News article published in 2006 about a $385 million contract for Halliburton subsidiary KBR to build concentration camps all across the United States:

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_arti...06fe03f4c9b3a77 (http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44c30493706fe 03f4c9b3a77)

In the article, it states that:

Almost no paper so far has discussed the possibility that detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law.

Plans for detention facilities or camps have a long history, going back to fears in the 1970s of a national uprising by black militants.

After 9/11, new martial law plans began to surface similar to those of FEMA in the 1980s. In January 2002 the Pentagon submitted a proposal for deploying troops on American streets.

It is clear that the Bush administration is thinking seriously about martial law. A multimillion program for detention facilities will greatly increase NORTHCOM's ability to respond to any domestic disorders.

Matthew
Mar 21st 2008, 04:02 PM
It's valid because the plans for the camps did not go away. And are in fact being implemented as we speak.

That seems to be the consensus among Alex Jones supporters and other conspiracy theorists. It's the equivalent of tabloid material though. It's simply taking something that has a grain of truth to it and completely blowing it out of proportion.

Let's take the first article you posted. The infowars "article" cites an AP article that says a FEMA official thinks that passenger trains should be used in case of an emergency to evacuate those with physical impediments. THAT is what prompts an article entitled "FEMA: Trains To Take You To The Camps." I guess that might be true if the government were to actually implement a plan like this that could work. And I guess that might be true if there were an emergency the size of Hurricane Katrina again. And I guess that might be true if you were indeed someone that had not already left the disaster area on your own. And finally, that might be true if you're someone with a physical impediment.

But, that of course is not what or who the article is addressing. It stands for the proposition that this is a plan to implement what occurred in NAZI Germany. Oh my...we've gone from emergency evacuation for the needy to holocaust #2. How did that happen? Well of course we "know" we can't trust the government. We "know" about Rex-84, that sinister plan in the 1980's to send everyone to concentration camps (How did that turn out by the way? It's 2008 and I haven't been shipped yet.) Oh, and we also have video of some buildings with barbwire and train track. I suppose that's checkmate.

This isn't news and this isn't reporting. It's junk for people who want to believe that the government is always on the brink of enslaving all of it's citizens. Frankly, I find it offensive that the article brings up the holocaust in comparison. The holocaust was very, very real. Concentration camps in America are not.



"He was pretty awful, but I think the Constitution has been put through much worse than him."

i respectfully disagree. we'll see the fruits of it for the rest of our lives. the dismantling of the rights of "possible muslim terrorists" this year will be the same for "possible Christian extremists" in 6 years or 10 years or 12 years from now. the precedent set by the bush administration's patriot act won't be reversed.

it all hinges, i guess, on if one believes we are in or on the brink of the "End Times" or not. i very strongly believe we are but i could be mistaken. but if we are near the end, i think there need to be certain systems of intelligence and control in place for the agents of the anti-christ to use to achieve the kind of total control they will want.

and a good old boy, literal Bible believing pentacostal helped 'em start putting it in place. puzzling to me.

I certainly don't know what will happen in the next 12 years so you could be right. IMO whatever precedent the Patriot Act set (which seems to be mistakenly blamed every time the limits of executive power are stretched) will wear down over the years to follow. Everyone following 9/11 felt vulnerable. That feeling isn't nearly as pervasive now. Things are back to "normal." People are less likely to cede power to the government now.

What we do know is that the Constitution didn't change on 9/11. Whatever laws are enacted must still pass constitutional muster. As threats, or the perception of threats, decreases, the argument for granting the executive branch more unilateral authority weakens.

But, again I don't know. We'll be getting a new executive in January and all 3 candidates have serious differences with the policy that's been carried out so far.

As for Ashcroft, I don't give his religious views much weight in trying to determine the rationale for his actions. All I can see are the man's actions.

BlueCandle
Mar 22nd 2008, 09:23 PM
Well, Mathew,

Here is another article from MarketWatch covering the same story about how the government is hiring Halliburton subsidiary KBR with a 385 million contract to build concentration camps all across the United States:

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Stor...77662-858254656 (http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid={62C8724D-AE8A-4B5C-94C7-70171315C0A0}&dist=SignInArchive¶m=archive&siteid=mktw&dateid=38741.5136277662-858254656)

In the article, it states that:

The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency (Which is whatever the government deems it to be), such as a natural disaster, the company said.

BlueCandle
Mar 24th 2008, 11:06 PM
Here is another article from Alternet covering the same story about how the government is hiring Halliburton subsidiary KBR with a 385 million contract to build concentration camps all across the United States:

http://www.alternet.org/rights/42458/

In the article, it states that:

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 governing the treatment of detainees is the culmination of relentless fear-mongering by the Bush administration since the September 11 terrorist attacks.
Because the bill was adopted with lightning speed, barely anyone noticed that it empowers Bush to declare not just aliens, but also U.S. citizens, "unlawful enemy combatants."

Bush & Co. has portrayed the bill as a tough way to deal with aliens to protect us against terrorism. Frightened they might lose their majority in Congress in the November elections, the Republicans rammed the bill through Congress with little substantive debate.

Anyone who donates money to a charity that turns up on Bush's list of "terrorist" organizations, or who speaks out against the government's policies could be declared an "unlawful enemy combatant" and imprisoned indefinitely. That includes American citizens.
Kellogg Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Cheney's Halliburton, is constructing a huge facility at an undisclosed location to hold tens of thousands of undesirables.

We can expect Bush to continue to exploit 9/11 to strip us of more of our liberties. Our constitutional right to dissent is in serious jeopardy. Benjamin Franklin's prescient warning should give us pause: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

BlueCandle
Mar 26th 2008, 04:45 AM
Here is another article from CounterPunch which talks about the $385 Million for concentration camps in the United States of America:

http://www.counterpunch.org/sigal03162006.html

In the article, it states:

The federal government has awarded a $385 million contract for the construction of 'temporary detention facilities' inside the United States as part of the Immigration Service's Detention and Removal Program. The contract was given to Kellogg, Root & Brown, a subsidiary of Halliburton. The camps would be used in the event of an "emergency", said Jamie Zuieback, an Immigration service official.
Here is another article from SourceWatch.com about the same $385 Million Dollar Contract to built the concentration camps in the USA:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_concentration_camps

In the article, it states that:

On January 24, 2006, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) component awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contingency contract to Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root (KBR) to "support ICE facilities in the event of an emergency"—in essence, American concentration camps

With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five-year term, consisting of a one-year based period and four one-year options, the competitively awarded contract will be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Fort Worth District. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005.

BlueCandle
Mar 26th 2008, 04:47 AM
Here is another article from Global Research that talks about the $385 million dollar deal to build concentration camps in the United States:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=DAL20060228&articleId=2045

In the article, it states that:

A recently announced contract for a Halliburton subsidiary to build immigrant detention facilities is part of a longer-term Homeland Security plan titled ENDGAME, which sets as its goal the removal of "all removable aliens" and "potential terrorists." Scott is author of "Drugs, Oil, and War: The United States in Afghanistan, Colombia, and Indochina" (Rowman & Littlefield, 2003). He is completing a book on "The Road to 9/11." Visit his Web site at:

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/index.html

The Halliburton subsidiary KBR (formerly Brown and Root) announced on Jan. 24 that it had been awarded a $385 million contingency contract by the Department of Homeland Security to build detention camps. Two weeks later, on Feb. 6, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced that the Fiscal Year 2007 federal budget would allocate over $400 million to add 6,700 additional detention beds (an increase of 32 percent over 2006). This $400 million allocation is more than a four-fold increase over the FY 2006 budget, which provided only $90 million for the same purpose.
ENDGAME's crash program is designed to house additional detainees who have not been convicted of crimes.

Significantly, both the KBR contract and the ENDGAME plan are open-ended. The contract calls for a response to "an emergency influx of immigrants, or to support the rapid development of new programs" in the event of other emergencies, such as "a natural disaster." "New programs" is of course a term with no precise limitation. So, in the current administration, is ENDGAME's goal of removing "potential terrorists."

It is relevant that in 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced his desire to see camps for U.S. citizens deemed to be "enemy combatants." In a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke of the harm being done to the country's security, not just by the enemy, but also by what he called "news informers" who needed to be combated in "a contest of wills." Two days earlier, citing speeches critical of Bush by Al Gore, John Kerry, and Howard Dean, conservative columnist Ben Shapiro called for "legislation to prosecute such sedition."

Since 9/11 the Bush administration has implemented a number of inter-related programs, which had been planned for secretly in the 1980s under President Reagan. These so-called "Continuity of Government" or COG proposals included vastly expanded detention capabilities, warrantless eavesdropping and detention, and preparations for greater use of martial law.

North's exercise, which reportedly contemplated possible suspension of the United States Constitution, led to questions being asked during the Iran-Contra Hearings. One concern then was that North's plans for expanded internment and detention facilities would not be confined to "refugees" alone.

BlueCandle
Mar 26th 2008, 04:49 AM
Here is a 2006 Article from Global Research that gives a detailed description on the concentration camps that FEMA is currently constructing in the United States:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ROL20060820&articleId=3010

In the article, it states that:

We are dangerously close to a situation where ~ if the American people took to the streets in righteous indignation or if there were another 9/11 ~ a mechanism for martial law could be quickly implemented and carried out under REX 84.

The Cheney/Bush administration has a plan which would accommodate the detention of large numbers of American citizens during times of emergency.
Existence of the Rex 84 plan was first revealed during the Iran-Contra Hearings in 1987, and subsequently reported by the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987:

" These camps are to be operated by FEMA should martial law need to be implemented in the United States and all it would take is a presidential signature on a proclamation and the attorney general's signature on a warrant to which a list of names is attached."

There over 800 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA should martial law need to be implemented in the United States and all it would take is a presidential signature on a proclamation and the attorney general's signature on a warrant to which a list of names is attached.

The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from the detention facilities. Many also have an airport nearby. The majority of the camps can house a population of 20,000 prisoners.

Currently, the largest of these facilities is just outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. The Alaskan facility is a massive mental health facility and can hold thousands of people.

BlueCandle
Mar 27th 2008, 01:56 AM
Here is a 2008 KLTV News Article about FEMA planning to use TRAINS to move massive amounts of people during the next "Emergency Situation":

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7856418&nav=menu117_2_1

In the article, it states that:

After 2005's Hurricane Katrina, Amtrak was hired to be on hand if another hurricane struck -- to evacuate people with special needs.
Cannon says FEMA is now devising disaster plans for other Gulf Coast cities based on the New Orleans model.

City officials say Congress and FEMA should create a national plan to use trains in disasters.

BlueCandle
Mar 27th 2008, 01:59 AM
Here is another 2008 WKYC News Article about how FEMA plans to use TRAINS to "evacuate" people during the next "National Emergency":

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=83188

In the article, it states that:

However, an assistant administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency says it won't be easy. Glenn Cannon told a congressional subcommittee that rights of way for most railroads are privately owned by freight companies. And he says there's no congressional mandate to use railroads for evacuations.

BlueCandle
Mar 27th 2008, 02:00 AM
Here is another 2008 WTOCTV News Article about FEMA and the trains:

http://www.wtoctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7859407&nav=0qq64h3l

In the article it states that:

The expanded use of passenger trains to evacuate the sick and elderly in is under consideration.

BlueCandle
Mar 27th 2008, 02:01 AM
Folks, DO NOT GET ON THOSE TRAINS.

Phil Schneider talked about FEMA trains to take people to camps over 10 years ago.

Phil Schneider was a geologist and structural engineer, who became known in the early 1990's for giving lectures about his alleged work inside top secret facilities being built by the United States government.

Here is a video of Phil Schneider talking about FEMA trains and the Gunderson Steel Fabrication company which he claimed was building prisoner cars (train cars) in the 1990's in preparation for their New World Order plans. He talks about shackles in the trains, ect:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8180572860678943465&q=schneider+phil

Phil Schneider was an extraordinarily brave man who knew that he was going to be killed because of the information he was revealing to the American public in the Spring/Summer of 1995. He was murdered on or about January 10, 1996 in Oregon. His ex-wife, Cynthia Drayer, was notified about a week after his death. Local police originally called it a natural death by stroke, but later changed it to suicide when an autopsy (insisted upon by Phil's ex-wife) revealed marks around his throat-indicating death by strangulation.

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 28th 2008, 12:33 AM
Folks, DO NOT GET ON THOSE TRAINS.

Phil Schneider talked about FEMA trains to take people to camps over 10 years ago.

Phil Schneider was a geologist and structural engineer, who became known in the early 1990's for giving lectures about his alleged work inside top secret facilities being built by the United States government.

Here is a video of Phil Schneider talking about FEMA trains and the Gunderson Steel Fabrication company which he claimed was building prisoner cars (train cars) in the 1990's in preparation for their New World Order plans. He talks about shackles in the trains, ect:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8180572860678943465&q=schneider+phil

Phil Schneider was an extraordinarily brave man who knew that he was going to be killed because of the information he was revealing to the American public in the Spring/Summer of 1995. He was murdered on or about January 10, 1996 in Oregon. His ex-wife, Cynthia Drayer, was notified about a week after his death. Local police originally called it a natural death by stroke, but later changed it to suicide when an autopsy (insisted upon by Phil's ex-wife) revealed marks around his throat-indicating death by strangulation.

Dude, stop worrying over things you have no control over.

Why are you SO enraptured with this idea? Why are you citing links from the same source? Why are you wasting any energy on this?

Anyone that has any education past 6th grade has heard of all this. It's been debunked more times than the 9/11 conspiracies. It's the same tired argument all idiot liberals throw out there and suck in victims that believe the nonsense. It's like racism, bro: It doesn't really exist, but hey, if we talk about it enough we can bring it back to complain about! :rolleyes:

Speaking as an ex-Infantry soldier: Guess what? If I say, "Get on the train," your butt is getting on the train. What are you going to do about it? It's like dirty cops: It ain't right, but when you're in the prone position and getting cuffed, you're not getting up and uncuffing yourself.

So relax, my brother. We once banned books, enslaved races, and the British would say that we deserted. It always works out in the end, BlueCandle. God loves to make rights out of wrongs.

But this doesn't even exist except in conspiracy circles.

BlueCandle
Mar 28th 2008, 06:25 AM
Dude, stop worrying over things you have no control over.

Why are you SO enraptured with this idea? Why are you citing links from the same source? Why are you wasting any energy on this?

Anyone that has any education past 6th grade has heard of all this. It's been debunked more times than the 9/11 conspiracies. It's the same tired argument all idiot liberals throw out there and suck in victims that believe the nonsense. It's like racism, bro: It doesn't really exist, but hey, if we talk about it enough we can bring it back to complain about! :rolleyes:

Speaking as an ex-Infantry soldier: Guess what? If I say, "Get on the train," your butt is getting on the train. What are you going to do about it? It's like dirty cops: It ain't right, but when you're in the prone position and getting cuffed, you're not getting up and uncuffing yourself.

So relax, my brother. We once banned books, enslaved races, and the British would say that we deserted. It always works out in the end, BlueCandle. God loves to make rights out of wrongs.

But this doesn't even exist except in conspiracy circles.

Sorry. Very well written and crafted. But it's nothing but smoke in the end. There is nothing solid to go off of in your post except for your opinion. And, I can say with all honesty, that I did not only post my opinion, but I posted a mixture of things including the most important things of all, which are facts.

Aside from the part about enslaving races, I didn't see anything substantial. And...the wisecrack you made about me "getting on the train", is not so true. There are instances where I would, but I guarantee you that in the right circumstances there is nothing a person could do if I was adamant about not getting on the train.

It all comes to to gut instinct. Primal Reaction. Wars have been fought because people didn't want to do something when someone wanted them to. People killed and died rather than give in. I am no different. There are others who may be. But not me. If I choose to not go to the camps, you'll have to kill me before I either A. Attempt to kill one of those trying to force me, or B. Kill myself. But in the end, it's always up to me. And I'm leaning very heavily at the moment towards not going to the camps. Period. And getting me to the camps and keeping me there ALIVE and Conscious are two different things entirely. If I got one single tiny opportunity to free myself, I would probably take it regardless of the consequences, because I would know that there might not come another opportunity like it while my Soul would still be residing in that body.

I have no quams about ultimately killing myself. I will do it the second I can (and there are many, many ways) if anyone ever tried to keep my Soul prisoner in it's body. And pain is no problem either, because pain is a part of life. God only allows you to suffer for so long though, and then, one day, one moment, it will cease to exist. No matter how much pain a person has to go through to get to that point, I say it was worth every moment.

I think the Japanese perfected the art of "Death-before-dis-honor" very well. Read your history. And don't you ever try to use fear to persuade me again. Because I guarantee you it won't work. Fear is the tool of cowards. Believe it or not, I am not using fear as the basis of my thread here, I am using reality. And trying to encourage people to feel the exact opposite. So we can finally put a stop to all this Bull ****.

BlueCandle
Mar 28th 2008, 06:27 AM
Well I'm not buying it at all. I think this is a nightmare scenario.

Trains for the sick and elderly? Lol. Are you serious? FEMA didn't do squat when the sick and elderly were drowning and dying in their wheelchairs during that hellish week of Hurricane Katrina. Do you people really believe that FEMA is a loving, fuzzy, cuddly organization that cares so much about the sick and the elderly? For crying out loud they are now tied into the United States Department of Defense!

And another thing, the amount of train cars being built, and the amount of trains being built, can hold WAY WAY more people in them than just the sick and the elderly. Whats all the extra space for? Hmmm...could it be MORE people?

And where are these trains going to bring the people that are filled with them? Are they going to cruise past a homeless shelter and drop them off? lol. Hell no. There aren't even enough Homeless shelters to hold them all. Are they going to drop them in other cities? Yeah right. The cities that they were dropped in would be filled to their maximum capacity, and the economies of those cities would be strained with all the new people to feed and clothe. So thats not going to happen.

Hmmm....so what does that leave us with folks? Can we say, The over 800 FEMA concentration camps that can hold millions of people in total? Can we say, the same camps from the same videos I posted that are located RIGHT NEXT TO the train tracks?

I'm telling you what. There is no way in hell I'm getting on any FEMA train, and going to any camp where they are going to hold me "indefinately". F-ck that.

Straight from the article:

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The Federal Emergency Management Agency may expand the use of passenger trains to evacuate the sick and elderly in advance of hurricanes across the Gulf Coast, a FEMA official said.

Glenn Cannon, a FEMA assistant administrator, told a congressional subcommittee meeting in New Orleans on Monday that his agency is looking at passenger trains as a method of getting people out of harm's way.

After Hurricane Katrina hit in August 2005, Amtrak was hired to be on hand to evacuate people if another disaster hit.
And then there is this very worrysome statement:

But, he said, turning railways into evacuation routes won't be easy.

Rights of way for most railroads are privately owned by freight companies, and there is no congressional mandate to use railroads for evacuations.

So what does that mean? Hmmm..does that mean that FEMA and/or the President and/or congress is going to physically change the laws so that they can take posession of most railways in our country for their own purposes? VERY, VERY, Scary folks.

Please look at this with an open mind and open EYES. We need to do something. It's all coming into fruition, and if we don't do anything we're going to be screwed in the end.

The mind is like a parachute folks. It works better when it's open.

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1343646

HisLeast
Mar 28th 2008, 03:24 PM
Trains for the sick and elderly? Lol. Are you serious? FEMA didn't do squat when the sick and elderly were drowning and dying in their wheelchairs during that hellish week of Hurricane Katrina. Do you people really believe that FEMA is a loving, fuzzy, cuddly organization that cares so much about the sick and the elderly? For crying out loud they are now tied into the United States Department of Defense!
That didn't have ANYTHING to do with Mayor Nagy completely abandoning the city's emergency plans would it? I guess you could blame FEMA, but there's something to be said for an organization that arrived on the scene of a disaster where nothing... NOTHING had been done by the people in charge at the time. And now that FEMA is looking at ways to perform large scale operations quickly, the only acceptable possibility is conspiracy? And you tell everyone else that they are close minded?


And another thing, the amount of train cars being built, and the amount of trains being built, can hold WAY WAY more people in them than just the sick and the elderly. Whats all the extra space for? Hmmm...could it be MORE people?
Do only sick and elderly need transport out of an evac zone? Besides which, how many train requisition orders have you seen? How come rail companies are still reporting reduced revenues?


And where are these trains going to bring the people that are filled with them? Are they going to cruise past a homeless shelter and drop them off? lol. Hell no. There aren't even enough Homeless shelters to hold them all. Are they going to drop them in other cities? Yeah right. The cities that they were dropped in would be filled to their maximum capacity, and the economies of those cities would be strained with all the new people to feed and clothe. So thats not going to happen.
An excellent reason to bring people from a city wide evac to a good sized facility. But that gives more credence to FEMA being forward thinking about a Katrina sized natural disaster than it does to a conspiracy to imprison Americans. Again, who's being closed minded? Even with the experience of Katrina, you won't consider that someone is planning for emergency response to disasters of that magnitude.


F-ck that.
Mind your tongue brother. And again, who's being closed minded? Some of us are ready to discuss this rationally. You're investing enough emotion to curse.


NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The Federal Emergency Management Agency may expand the use of passenger trains to evacuate the sick and elderly in advance of hurricanes across the Gulf Coast, a FEMA official said.
So again we see the same organization we poo-poo for Katrina looking for ways to quickly evac areas when Katrina scale disasters make whole cities disaster zones. Thats a good thing right? And if it isn't then why do we give FEMA such a hard time about their response to Katrina?


he mind is like a parachute folks. It works better when it's open.
Kindly, take your own advice. My mind is plenty open. I just see simpler explanations for many of these observations. I also see sparse amounts of verifiable data.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 28th 2008, 04:17 PM
If fear is the tool of a coward, then what is the purpose of your posts?


but I guarantee you that in the right circumstances there is nothing a person could do if I was adamant about not getting on the train.

Please, if someone wants to move you; they will move you.


I have no quams about ultimately killing myself.

Good idea. Suicide is a coward's tool, same as fear. I don't believe Jesus committed suicide when he was taken on the metaphorical train.


Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit (http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/holyghost.html), who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought (http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/redemption.html) at a price. Therefore honor God with your body (1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/1cor6.html#19)).



So what does that mean? Hmmm..does that mean that FEMA and/or the President and/or congress is going to physically change the laws so that they can take posession of most railways in our country for their own purposes? VERY, VERY, Scary folks.

Laws get changed all the time, it's part of the judicial process. It's also called adaptation because old laws will not always reflect the right course of action to current situations.


It's all coming into fruition, and if we don't do anything we're going to be screwed in the end.

How am I going to be screwed in the end? My kingdom isn't on this Earth, why is yours?


Heb 9:11,24 Heaven is not of this creation


There are many dwelling places 1 in my Father’s house. 2 Otherwise, I would have told you, because 3 I am going away to make ready 4 (javascript:void(0);) a place for you. 5 (John 14:2 (http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=922#)).

Etc.

Why don't you calm down a bit, eh?

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 28th 2008, 04:19 PM
Crush the conspiracy with your mind!


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3852/hillarytinfoilhatqs0.jpg

BlueCandle
Mar 29th 2008, 10:35 PM
That didn't have ANYTHING to do with Mayor Nagy completely abandoning the city's emergency plans would it? I guess you could blame FEMA, but there's something to be said for an organization that arrived on the scene of a disaster where nothing... NOTHING had been done by the people in charge at the time. And now that FEMA is looking at ways to perform large scale operations quickly, the only acceptable possibility is conspiracy? And you tell everyone else that they are close minded?


Do only sick and elderly need transport out of an evac zone? Besides which, how many train requisition orders have you seen? How come rail companies are still reporting reduced revenues?


An excellent reason to bring people from a city wide evac to a good sized facility. But that gives more credence to FEMA being forward thinking about a Katrina sized natural disaster than it does to a conspiracy to imprison Americans. Again, who's being closed minded? Even with the experience of Katrina, you won't consider that someone is planning for emergency response to disasters of that magnitude.


Mind your tongue brother. And again, who's being closed minded? Some of us are ready to discuss this rationally. You're investing enough emotion to curse.


So again we see the same organization we poo-poo for Katrina looking for ways to quickly evac areas when Katrina scale disasters make whole cities disaster zones. Thats a good thing right? And if it isn't then why do we give FEMA such a hard time about their response to Katrina?


Kindly, take your own advice. My mind is plenty open. I just see simpler explanations for many of these observations. I also see sparse amounts of verifiable data.

There are numerous covert "concentration camps" located across America, and Canada for the hour of martial law and the seizure of this nation for the New World Order.

Some of these facilities are also incorporated into the military's DUMB's (deep underground military facilities).

These numerous camps have been established to house and supossably to ultimately terminate what they consistently referred to as "the resisters of the New World Order".

But what IS a resister of the New World Order? The definition they (our friendly US government) have applied will surprise you! A "resister" includes:

- A Christian (firm Bible believer)

- A Constitutionalist

- A Patriot

- A gun owner who refuse to relinquish 2nd Amendment rights

- Anyone who adheres to the concepts of maintaining our national sovereignty, the
Constitution and rejects the concept of United Nations world government control in it's place is labled by the government as a "resister of the New World Order."

- Those radio broadcasters, lecturers, authors, and pastors who publicly come against the New World Order.

Have you ever listened to radio broadcasts exposing the NWO by people such as Alex Jones (www.infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com)) or Texe Marrs, or Chris Gurner (on Patriot stations such as Genesis Broadcasting Network)? They are all telling America the truth about the New World Order and it's dark agenda for America via the UN/martial law. And each one knows that they are irrevocably marked for persecution under the NWO/martial law agenda our nation is now entering into. People like them are the more open and obvious examples of "resisters of the NWO."

BlueCandle
Mar 29th 2008, 10:36 PM
If fear is the tool of a coward, then what is the purpose of your posts?



Please, if someone wants to move you; they will move you.



Good idea. Suicide is a coward's tool, same as fear. I don't believe Jesus committed suicide when he was taken on the metaphorical train.






Laws get changed all the time, it's part of the judicial process. It's also called adaptation because old laws will not always reflect the right course of action to current situations.



How am I going to be screwed in the end? My kingdom isn't on this Earth, why is yours?





Etc.

Why don't you calm down a bit, eh?

Even now, sitting silently in classified government computers are the names of millions of fellow American Patriots ALREADY PROFILED as "resisters of the NWO." According to many sources, such people have been marked for priority arrest, to be transported to these modern concentration camps (under FEMA or military jurisdiction,) to be interrogated, and ultimately, according to many different sources, to be terminated.

Interrogation? "Are you a member of the militia? Who is your leader?

Where are your secret cells located? How many secret weapons caches do you have?" Or, "Who is your Pastor? Where are your food supplies hidden? How many belong to your prayer group?" Etc.

The CIA and the military have been secretly perfecting both mind control drugs and torture techniques designed to force compliance or to be used in interrogation sessions.

Some sources have even stated that under Martial Law those arrested can anticipate "...brutal rape, torture and death once they are arrested and taken to the camps!"

The camps stand to this day and will be activated under martial law. And are being built as we speak. Particularly hated by the NWO agenda are Christians who, for Bible-based reasons, will refuse to participate in their Luciferic based NWO. Former and current Satanists, who are the backbone of the NWO, have admitted this.

This is one of the main reasons why Christians will be considered a major target for arrest and removal as NWO takeover progresses in America. How many times can it be emphasized that it is time to wake up the churches in America?

BlueCandle
Mar 29th 2008, 10:38 PM
Many have stated that those "resisters of the NWO" who are not immediately terminated at the supposable many gassing/cremating or microwaving facilities across America and Canada may instead be diverted to facilities such as those located in deep underground military bases for human experimentation UNTIL THEY EXPIRE.

Remember Joseph Mengele and the Nazi doctors? Sadly, history DOES repeat itself.

It has also been said that the "resisters" could be turned over to Satanist covens for Human sacrifice.

A former high level Illuminati/Satanist named Doc Marquis once stated that when he was personally flown out to the FEMA gassing/crematory detention camp in the Mojave (it has a landing strip) he rejoiced as he was shown around this deadly compound.

Mr. Marquis stated:

"My sentiments? I rejoiced over the thought that Christians would be terminated in this place."

This is the end-time hour in which we live, friends. And in order to have mass beheading terminations of so many Christian resisters of the NWO, you must have the tools with which to do it.

For Christians who would raise eyebrows at this, I will simply refer them to the Bible as evidence:

Rev. 20:4

And I saw the souls of them who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God..."

While it is true that many, including the Apostle Paul, have been beheaded for the witness of Jesus, if you read it you will see that it is SPECIFICALLY referring to this present time frame of the Kingdom of Satan on Earth (the Kingdom of the Beast or AntiChrist) and the period when the cashless society will be manifested with the mark (Digital Angel/Veri-Chip/RFID Chip?) in one's hand or forehead and it's blasphemous World religious system.

If you would like to purchase a book written by Doc Marquis then visit the following website:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002-3246399-7828050?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Doc+Marquis

Matthew
Mar 29th 2008, 10:39 PM
The mind is like a parachute folks. It works better when it's open.


This is the most annoying thing about conspiracy theorists. You spend your time finding "news" from these wacky sites and then you have the gall to act as if those of us who don't believe the same as you aren't open-minded Please...:rolleyes:

You post a link to a page with a video of a train station that is supposedly going to be used to process people. Does it not strike you as odd that they were able to get video of this place? Does it not strike you as odd that no one is guarding this place? Does it not strike you as odd that even though this place is supposed to hold people that they're walking in and out of it?

BlueCandle
Mar 29th 2008, 10:40 PM
Clavicula, Hisleast,

If soldiers approached you, and told you that you were going to be loaded onto a train and taken to a concentration camp where you will be seperated from all those who you love, and that you will indeed be tortured and held captive for however long of time they say, or possibly until you die, what would you do at that point?

I'm just curious.

BlueCandle
Mar 30th 2008, 04:13 AM
This is the most annoying thing about conspiracy theorists. You spend your time finding "news" from these wacky sites and then you have the gall to act as if those of us who don't believe the same as you aren't open-minded Please...:rolleyes:

You post a link to a page with a video of a train station that is supposedly going to be used to process people. Does it not strike you as odd that they were able to get video of this place? Does it not strike you as odd that no one is guarding this place? Does it not strike you as odd that even though this place is supposed to hold people that they're walking in and out of it?

Let me tell you something partner. Don't think what is being planned for the World right now, and what is being planned against Christians, is the same as what happened to Jesus.

Jesus had His friends and family around Him when He was tortured and hung from the cross. For support.

In these camps that they are building, you will not have the same luxury. Unless Christians decide to band together to fight, than you will be all on your own.

Trust me when I tell you, many people have suffered physical pain and agony even greater than what Jesus had to endure. In the next few years many more may do the same.
It is not how Jesus died that makes Him so special. It's how He lived.

BlueCandle
Mar 30th 2008, 04:23 AM
When Satan and his Dark Angels attempted to take over Heaven, who fought them and went to war with them? Those Angels who are of the Light of the Holy Spirit.

What would have happened if those Angels decided to say, "Let's put our faith in God and just let things unfold." "We don't need to fight, we have our faith".

You know what would have happened if the Angels of Light didn't fight? Satan would be running Heaven right now. How do you like them apples?

The Bible states that even the Angels of Heaven were envious of Human Beings. Which shows just how important we are in the whole picture of things.

The Anti-Christ is just Satan in Human form, trying to take over the World. The same as He did in Heaven. If we are so "important", than we should fight for our Homeland (Earth) just like the Angels fought for their Homeland (Heaven).

Folks, if it's ok to fight for whats right in Heaven, than it's damn sure ok to fight for whats right on the Earth.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 30th 2008, 11:14 AM
Clavicula, Hisleast,

If soldiers approached you, and told you that you were going to be loaded onto a train and taken to a concentration camp where you will be seperated from all those who you love, and that you will indeed be tortured and held captive for however long of time they say, or possibly until you die, what would you do at that point?

I'm just curious.

They wouldn't tell me all that, they would say "Get on the train!" I would get on the train and face the future with mt soul intact. I've already posted relevant verses, you chose to ignore them.

In any event, I will most likely be back in uniform at that time or an old man.


It is not how Jesus died that makes Him so special. It's how He lived.

I think you will find most Christians disagree with you, but I'm not going to get in the way of your mis-understanding.

Matthew
Mar 30th 2008, 07:32 PM
Let me tell you something partner. Don't think what is being planned for the World right now, and what is being planned against Christians, is the same as what happened to Jesus.

Jesus had His friends and family around Him when He was tortured and hung from the cross. For support.

In these camps that they are building, you will not have the same luxury. Unless Christians decide to band together to fight, than you will be all on your own.

Trust me when I tell you, many people have suffered physical pain and agony even greater than what Jesus had to endure. In the next few years many more may do the same.
It is not how Jesus died that makes Him so special. It's how He lived.

I have no idea what your post has anything to do with what I posted. You talk about these camps etc and offer no evidence. Citing one baseless accusation to support another amounts to nothing.

I think it's best I exit from this discussion though.

BlueCandle
Mar 30th 2008, 09:29 PM
They wouldn't tell me all that, they would say "Get on the train!" I would get on the train and face the future with mt soul intact.

You have every right to kill someone if that person were attempting to hurt a member of your family or someone else in front of you. If someone was attempting to kill or unjustly capture someone who I know in front of me, I could not stand by and watch. If it was a family member, I would spill their blood in front of me before I would allow them to hurt my Mother or Sister and such.

I would accept full responsibility for my actions. No matter what the consequences.

When a soldier kills another soldier in battle, no-one second guesses what their fate will be. No-one says, "that soldier is going to hell for eternity now for killing his "enemy" combatant." Quite the opposite in fact. Instead, the soldier is praised by his fellow citizens for serving his country.

When a police-officer kills a criminal in defense in the "line of duty", he is given an award for his efforts, and is potrayed as a hero by his fellow countrymen.

I would expect no less from anyone else on this planet if I killed in defense of my family.

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 30th 2008, 10:33 PM
But that isn't what you asked. You asked what I would do if someone said that to me without specifiying anything else. In the event that I had a family, I would respectfully decline, evade the situation by whatever means necessary, and survive. If you're going to ask me a question, please read my response in the context of your question, what you are doing is criticizing my answer by adding variables that were not present.

I have killed many and really have no problems with that, but I refuse to do anything that would inhibit my salvation.

I also find it funny when those who have never done tell me exactly what they're going to do, simply, I don't believe you. Most people don't have it in them.

BlueCandle
Mar 31st 2008, 12:32 AM
But that isn't what you asked. You asked what I would do if someone said that to me without specifiying anything else. In the event that I had a family, I would respectfully decline, evade the situation by whatever means necessary, and survive. If you're going to ask me a question, please read my response in the context of your question, what you are doing is criticizing my answer by adding variables that were not present.

I have killed many and really have no problems with that, but I refuse to do anything that would inhibit my salvation.

I also find it funny when those who have never done tell me exactly what they're going to do, simply, I don't believe you. Most people don't have it in them.

You are right that I have never done it. But I think you are wrong when you say that most people don't have it in them. I just think most people won't do it voluntarily. But if they are forced into a corner with no other option available, you would be surprised.

HisLeast
Mar 31st 2008, 02:02 PM
There are numerous covert "concentration camps" located across America, and Canada for the hour of martial law and the seizure of this nation for the New World Order.
Can I suggest a statement that only contains facts we can prove?
"There are numerous camps across America, and Canada". All the extra words (covert, concentration, martial law, seizure, NWO) in the quoted statement are unsubstantiated hypothesis. Actually less than hypothesis... as the conclusion has already been drawn and the observations are twisted to fit.


Some of these facilities are also incorporated into the military's DUMB's (deep underground military facilities).
Even if that's true, so what?


These numerous camps have been established to house and supossably to ultimately terminate what they consistently referred to as "the resisters of the New World Order".
What reliable documentation "consistently refers" to people as resisters of the NWO? What official documentation gives any hint of "termination" of these people? There is none. This is just speculation built on more speculation built on fantasy.


But what IS a resister of the New World Order? The definition they (our friendly US government) have applied will surprise you! A "resister" includes:
Again, the surprising lack of government documents even talking about "the NWO" sacrifices this theory's credibility.


Have you ever listened to radio broadcasts exposing the NWO by people such as Alex Jones (www.infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com)) or Texe Marrs, or Chris Gurner (on Patriot stations such as Genesis Broadcasting Network)?
No, because Alex Jones et all are some of the few people who make a living in conspiracy space. Any fact they can twist to fit the conclusions their customers want to hear only increases their profitability. In that their "research" is utterly compromised and void of credibility.


They are all telling America the truth about the New World Order and it's dark agenda for America via the UN/martial law.
Correction. They are telling America their theory. A theory they already know a segment of the population will buy books on. Its economics.


People like them are the more open and obvious examples of "resisters of the NWO."
They're only open to one possible conclusion to the observations (the one that their consumers buy). In that regard their "parachutes" are not "open".

And here's your litmus test: If Alex Jones reviewed his data and said "oh wait... false alarm", would his fan base breath a sigh of relief or immediately think he'd been compromised by the NWO?

diffangle
Mar 31st 2008, 02:29 PM
Blue Candle, I want to ask you a important question... do you spend as much time and energy on studying the Scriptures as you do studying Alex Jones and his info? I ask you this question out of concern.

BlueCandle
Apr 1st 2008, 06:00 AM
Blue Candle, I want to ask you a important question... do you spend as much time and energy on studying the Scriptures as you do studying Alex Jones and his info? I ask you this question out of concern.

Not as much no. And ALL of you have a responsibility to spread this information to as many people as you possibly can.

The Bible's book of Ezekiel is a book of prophecies concerning judgment on the nations. Chapter 33 speaks of the role and responsibility of the watchmen. Yahweh declared that when a watchman sees the sword coming upon a land he must speak it forth, or the blood of the slain will be upon his head.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 1st 2008, 06:07 AM
You are right that I have never done it. But I think you are wrong when you say that most people don't have it in them. I just think most people won't do it voluntarily. But if they are forced into a corner with no other option available, you would be surprised.

I disagree, and I don't think I would be surprised at all.

HisLeast
Apr 1st 2008, 01:55 PM
Not as much no. And ALL of you have a responsibility to spread this information to as many people as you possibly can.

I have a responsibility to the truth, which as we have demonstrated, may not be aligned with this interpretation of the observation. This brings me back to the whole "open mindedness" which you yourself brought up. You refuse to challenge a source as biased as Alex Jones, and additionally place the burden on us to be messengers for said biased source.


The Bible's book of Ezekiel is a book of prophecies concerning judgment on the nations. Chapter 33 speaks of the role and responsibility of the watchmen. Yahweh declared that when a watchman sees the sword coming upon a land he must speak it forth, or the blood of the slain will be upon his head.

Do you think this prophecy may have been given to a people who were expecting a literal invasion? Additionally, do you think the watchman cires out at all movements... automatically attributing all disturbance to enemy activity?

And just because I'm curious... do you mean to tell me that if I don't buy into this conspiracy theory, everyone's blood will be on my head? How DARE you.

diffangle
Apr 1st 2008, 02:57 PM
Not as much no.

As a fellow believer I would highly suggest spending more time and energy on the Scriptures than on Alex Jones. Alex may or may not be accurate in the things that he proclaims but the way he goes about it is in a way that stirs fear and/or anger into the listeners... this is not healthy for anyone's spirit or body. What is healthy for the spirit and body is His Word... establishing a close relationship with our Heavenly Father... this will serve you well in times of need. Have you ever read The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom or The Heavenly Man by Brother Yun? If not, I highly recommend them... they're both Christians who spent time in the concentration camps/prison. YHWH used them for a great purpose. If I have to go to a concentration camp in order to be a witness to lost souls... then so be it. Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for another. :hug:

tango
Apr 2nd 2008, 11:29 AM
Not as much no. And ALL of you have a responsibility to spread this information to as many people as you possibly can.

The Bible's book of Ezekiel is a book of prophecies concerning judgment on the nations. Chapter 33 speaks of the role and responsibility of the watchmen. Yahweh declared that when a watchman sees the sword coming upon a land he must speak it forth, or the blood of the slain will be upon his head.

You know, before I came back to God last year I spent a lot of time thinking about ways to survive the fallout of a major social and economic collapse.

I'm expecting a total meltdown in our entire financial system within my lifetime (the reasons why are long and probably not entirely relevant here), which in turn is likely to cause huge social unrest. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a government with the foresight to take steps to quash civil unrest. Neither would it surprise me to see a national or global leader rise up out of the ashes of the current system, and such a leader may make Hitler and Stalin look like cuddly pussycats by comparison.

But you know what? God will take care of it all. The more I thought about possible meltdown scenarios the more it seemed to reflect the book of Revelation. It's interesting to think of ways it might pan out but I really wouldn't think that dodging these internment camps (even assuming every word of your posts and your links is 100% true, which I have to doubt) is going to give you a happy smiley existence. In the meantime you're better off reading the Bible than more and more of other peoples' opinions on how things MIGHT pan out.

When you can't do anything without the mark of the beast, when you can't buy food, you can't grow food (the two witnesses have the power to stop it raining) and you're living on the run from the beast and his followers, do you really think it will make a whole lot of difference whether you're on the run in a desolate landscape or chained up in a government camp somewhere? Rev 13:7 says "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." (NKJV).

As for the comments about being a watchman (in Ezekiel 3 as well as 33), the watchman has a duty to warn the inhabitants of the city but also has a duty not to cry wolf. If the watchman sounded a full alarm every time he heard anything, before checking it out for himself, before long the city would ignore the alarm until the invaders were at the gates.

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 05:22 AM
So what does this mean for all of us who believe in the Supreme Creator/God and Jesus Christ? What will become of all of us when these people truly gain control of our entire country?

They are using the "security" factor to get us all to let them try and keep more on more tabs on the people here almost as if they are trying to eventually reach a point where we will all need ID cards that the government has for all of us to travel from place to place, so that they have our information and so that when their "Master Plan" or "Global Agenda" is put in place, they can find us when they need to.

Why in the world would the Illuminati/Satanists want to allow people who believe in God (at least for the next few years why they will still be in power) to roam free and continue to practice our beliefs?

What will they do to try and stop us all while they still have a chance?

There is obvious reason to believe that Satanists and the Illuminati do not want people who believe in the One True Supreme Creator - God - to be around on this planet for too much longer. I mean why would they? It brings people together, it totally goes against what they want, and it undermines their authority.

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 05:23 AM
Perhaps several years ago, many people who believe in God/Christ would not give heed to such a message as this. Only in recent months are many believers suddenly waking up to the sobering reality that we may be facing end time persecution in our nation as never before. Terrorist events never thought possible to occur on our soil have happened. And now, on the wings of public outcry over the twin tragedies of September 11, 2001, draconian laws are being raced through Congress, supposedly in the effort to help curb terrorism, but suspiciously beginning to sound as if we are slowly being turned into a police state.

Many groups and civil liberties organizations are alarmed at what is unfolding in our nation. Are our liberties being sacrificed for "security?" And who can prove that surrendering vital liberties has EVER brought forth "security" or "protection? Some of the harshest dictatorships with the most stringent and oppressive laws in place have provided no genuine security for it's citizens, only oppression and greater controls over the people.

The emerging government/intelligence community definition of "terrorist" is vague, but perhaps quite deliberately. What IS the definition of a "terrorist?" Great penalties are now being dictated both against "terrorists" and those who "harbor terrorists." "Suspected terrorists" can now be detained indefinitely, without a warrant. The term "potential terrorist" is also being used as well.

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 05:24 AM
Read the following carefully and decide if YOU might fit into their category of a "potential terrorist":

"US Attorney General Janet Reno has sent a confidential memo to the U.S. attorneys that an investigation would take place against "right wing and fundamentalist Christ believers."

It states that investigation and surveillance of right wing political groups and fundamentalists, religious organizations and individuals will take place in certain states. Dossiers on targeted individuals are to be compiled and retained in Washington, D.C. in the Justice Department.

Or how about this quote from former U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno herself?

"In the event of a wide spread uprising (as in martial law or a national disaster) these individuals must be viewed as "potential terrorists."

- Janet Reno, former U.S. Attorney General

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 05:25 AM
Now are you alarmed? With our nation in this present state of national disaster and increasing turmoil as biological warfare agents are being mailed out and reports of new threats surface continually, can you see that the above document refers to this time frame we are in?

Do you begin to understand the sobering implications of the term "potential terrorist?" Many Americans could nod their heads in agreement over the harsh new laws being enacted against "potential terrorists," naively thinking that the government's definition of such terrorists might be "wild eyed Moslem religious fanatics" intent on inflicting terror and pain on "the great Satan," America. But now you know there is a much broader definition of "terrorist" that the government has in mind! And that broader definition includes "right wing political groups, fundamentalist believers in God, religious organizations and individuals."

NOW that you realize this, can you nod your head in agreement over these laws being passed...when you realize they can be used against YOU??? Against your Church? Against your Pastor? Against your religious organization? Against your belief system?

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 05:26 AM
Right wing groups also include America's militias as well, not surprisingly. And note how they are now being targeted WITHOUT SUBSTANTIATION as "potential sources" for the anthrax scare! Today it is both Moslem extremists and America's militias being targeted: tomorrow will it be America's Spiritual people/Christ believers and other "potential terrorists"?

People are beginning to become alarmed when they begin to hear government sources being interviewed on national television following September 11th, who constantly used this term "potential terrorists." For most fellow Americans, the hidden meaning was veiled. But for researchers like myself, the term "police state" began to register in my mind. And with it, the indication of end time persecution that will accompany it for the Believers in America.

All that I have been hearing recently in various news reports tends to confirm the hidden government agenda of intense persecution of the Believers in America to come. And, how such persecution would be activated under the great national disasters anticipated to come to our nation (and tragically welcomed or actually encouraged by those elements who have long planned to use such circumstances to bring this persecution into operation and the New World Order into power).

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 05:37 AM
You know, before I came back to God last year I spent a lot of time thinking about ways to survive the fallout of a major social and economic collapse.

I'm expecting a total meltdown in our entire financial system within my lifetime (the reasons why are long and probably not entirely relevant here), which in turn is likely to cause huge social unrest. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a government with the foresight to take steps to quash civil unrest. Neither would it surprise me to see a national or global leader rise up out of the ashes of the current system, and such a leader may make Hitler and Stalin look like cuddly pussycats by comparison.

But you know what? God will take care of it all. The more I thought about possible meltdown scenarios the more it seemed to reflect the book of Revelation. It's interesting to think of ways it might pan out but I really wouldn't think that dodging these internment camps (even assuming every word of your posts and your links is 100% true, which I have to doubt) is going to give you a happy smiley existence. In the meantime you're better off reading the Bible than more and more of other peoples' opinions on how things MIGHT pan out.

When you can't do anything without the mark of the beast, when you can't buy food, you can't grow food (the two witnesses have the power to stop it raining) and you're living on the run from the beast and his followers, do you really think it will make a whole lot of difference whether you're on the run in a desolate landscape or chained up in a government camp somewhere? Rev 13:7 says "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation." (NKJV).

As for the comments about being a watchman (in Ezekiel 3 as well as 33), the watchman has a duty to warn the inhabitants of the city but also has a duty not to cry wolf. If the watchman sounded a full alarm every time he heard anything, before checking it out for himself, before long the city would ignore the alarm until the invaders were at the gates.

The very reason The United States was liberated from Britain's rule was because people fought and died for what they believed in. Not because they put their tail between their legs and ran.

In my opinion, not a single one of you who lives in America deserves to unless you are willing to fight to preserve the same country your founding fathers passed down to you. However and when you choose to fight is up to you, but remember this, many before you have fought and given their lives for what you have today. If you are unwilling to do the same, than you do not deserve to keep what they gave you.

Never in the history of America has the strategy of "Do nothing and God will take care of it" ever worked before when it came to defending the country from tyranny. You can tell yourselves that all you want to, but the fact is that nowhere in the Bible does it state such a thing, and it simply DOESN'T WORK.

tango
Apr 3rd 2008, 06:51 AM
The very reason The United States was liberated from Britain's rule was because people fought and died for what they believed in. Not because they put their tail between their legs and ran.

In my opinion, not a single one of you who lives in America deserves to unless you are willing to fight to preserve the same country your founding fathers passed down to you. However and when you choose to fight is up to you, but remember this, many before you have fought and given their lives for what you have today. If you are unwilling to do the same, than you do not deserve to keep what they gave you.

Never in the history of America has the strategy of "Do nothing and God will take care of it" ever worked before when it came to defending the country from tyranny. You can tell yourselves that all you want to, but the fact is that nowhere in the Bible does it state such a thing, and it simply DOESN'T WORK.

Let me make a simple suggestion. You've got over 100 posts here, almost entirely relating to these camps and the national ID card. Stop watching and reading this stuff and start reading the Bible.

I'm not saying we should give up. I'm saying that God's will is going to be done come what may. If I die in battle, die through the prophesied famine, or die because I refuse to bow down to the beast (or die from old age because the day of wrath doesn't come within my lifetime), I'm going to die. That's something I can't do anything about.

Things are going to get ugly. We know this. I'm expecting an economic collapse that makes the 1929 depression look like a picnic. But if six soldiers physically throw you into a train do you honestly think you're going to do anything other than get on the train (or maybe die on the spot)? You might get away ahead of time, but then you're back to running for survival, which apparently you don't believe in doing.

tango
Apr 3rd 2008, 06:53 AM
Read the following carefully and decide if YOU might fit into their category of a "potential terrorist":

"US Attorney General Janet Reno has sent a confidential memo to the U.S. attorneys that an investigation would take place against "right wing and fundamentalist Christ believers."

It states that investigation and surveillance of right wing political groups and fundamentalists, religious organizations and individuals will take place in certain states. Dossiers on targeted individuals are to be compiled and retained in Washington, D.C. in the Justice Department.

Or how about this quote from former U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno herself?

"In the event of a wide spread uprising (as in martial law or a national disaster) these individuals must be viewed as "potential terrorists."

- Janet Reno, former U.S. Attorney General

I've fitted into the category of "potential terrorist" and "potential dissident" since I was old enough to think for myself.

Read the book of Revelation, it's coming whether you like it or not.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 3rd 2008, 01:34 PM
In my opinion, not a single one of you who lives in America deserves to unless you are willing to fight to preserve the same country your founding fathers passed down to you. However and when you choose to fight is up to you, but remember this, many before you have fought and given their lives for what you have today. If you are unwilling to do the same, than you do not deserve to keep what they gave you.Sitting on a message board ranting and raving isn't fighting. :rolleyes:

*edit*


So what does this mean for all of us who believe in the Supreme Creator/God and Jesus Christ? What will become of all of us when these people truly gain control of our entire country?

Those of us with faith will receive our reward in Heaven; those without will not. It's quite simple, really.

diffangle
Apr 3rd 2008, 02:14 PM
You can tell yourselves that all you want to, but the fact is that nowhere in the Bible does it state such a thing, and it simply DOESN'T WORK.

YHWH smote all the Egyptians first born in order to free the Israelites from an oppressive ruler. Also...

1Sa 5:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=1Sa&chapter=5&verse=9&version=kjv#9)And it was [so], that, after they had carried it about, the hand of YHWH was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts.

1Sa 6:19 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Sa&c=6&v=19&t=KJV#19)And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of YHWH, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because YHWH had smitten [many] of the people with a great slaughter.

2Ki 19:35 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Ki&c=19&v=35&t=KJV#35)And it came to pass that night, that the angel of YHWH went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they [were] all dead corpses.

2Ch 14:12 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Ch&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)So YHWH smote the Ethiopians before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled.

Isa 30:31 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=30&v=31&t=KJV#31)For through the voice of YHWH shall the Assyrian be beaten down, [which] smote with a rod.

diffangle
Apr 3rd 2008, 02:34 PM
Now are you alarmed?

No... I refuse to live my life in fear, our Creator doesn't want His people to live their lives in fear of man.

Psa 29:11 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=29&v=11&t=KJV#11)YHWH will give strength unto His people; YHWH will bless His people with peace.

Psa 34:14 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=34&v=14&t=KJV#14)Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

Psa 119:165 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=119&v=165&t=KJV#165)Great peace have they which love Thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Pro 16:7 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=16&v=7&t=KJV#7)When a man's ways please YHWH, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Isa 26:3 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=26&v=3&t=KJV#3)Thou wilt keep [him] in perfect peace, [whose] mind [is] stayed [on thee]: because he trusteth in Thee.


YHWH(not Alex Jones;)) will let me know what I need to do when/if the time comes. It's questions like this one that shows that the fear mongering has gotten to you, it's not good for you, seriously... Alex and those who get all wound up from what he preaches are in danger of dying from heart attacks before they're even going to be able to fight the NWO. I would highly suggest to you laying off of Alex and getting into the Word, the Word will bring you closer to YHWH, let Him be your leader... not Alex.

diffangle
Apr 3rd 2008, 02:43 PM
BC, here's a question for you...

Soldiers knock on your door to take you away to the camps, you...

A) Kill as many of them as you can and/or yourself leaving no chance of being a witness to anyone

or

B) Go with them in the peace you have in YHWH and be a witness to many who are with you in the camps, therefore leading many to our Saviour/Salvation.

Which choice do you think our Creator would have you choose?

HisLeast
Apr 3rd 2008, 02:46 PM
Not to mention that Alex SELLS fear. This is what he does for a living, not as some altruistic sense of justice and freedom. That alone makes me think that half his facts are manufactured and the other half are square pegs hammered into round holes to fit a predetermined conclusion.

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 09:37 PM
Let me make a simple suggestion. You've got over 100 posts here, almost entirely relating to these camps and the national ID card. Stop watching and reading this stuff and start reading the Bible.

I'm not saying we should give up. I'm saying that God's will is going to be done come what may. If I die in battle, die through the prophesied famine, or die because I refuse to bow down to the beast (or die from old age because the day of wrath doesn't come within my lifetime), I'm going to die. That's something I can't do anything about.

Things are going to get ugly. We know this. I'm expecting an economic collapse that makes the 1929 depression look like a picnic. But if six soldiers physically throw you into a train do you honestly think you're going to do anything other than get on the train (or maybe die on the spot)? You might get away ahead of time, but then you're back to running for survival, which apparently you don't believe in doing.

If 1 million people all run off together and get organized and prepared, does that change the picture for you a little bit? Instead of trying to always narrow it down to a single persons reaction? Why don't we think in terms of numbers? Perhaps our only hope and solution.

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 09:44 PM
No... I refuse to live my life in fear, our Creator doesn't want His people to live their lives in fear of man.

Psa 29:11 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=29&v=11&t=KJV#11)YHWH will give strength unto His people; YHWH will bless His people with peace.

Psa 34:14 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=34&v=14&t=KJV#14)Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

Psa 119:165 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=119&v=165&t=KJV#165)Great peace have they which love Thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Pro 16:7 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=16&v=7&t=KJV#7)When a man's ways please YHWH, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.

Isa 26:3 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=26&v=3&t=KJV#3)Thou wilt keep [him] in perfect peace, [whose] mind [is] stayed [on thee]: because he trusteth in Thee.


YHWH(not Alex Jones;)) will let me know what I need to do when/if the time comes. It's questions like this one that shows that the fear mongering has gotten to you, it's not good for you, seriously... Alex and those who get all wound up from what he preaches are in danger of dying from heart attacks before they're even going to be able to fight the NWO. I would highly suggest to you laying off of Alex and getting into the Word, the Word will bring you closer to YHWH, let Him be your leader... not Alex.

Look, I am going to be honest, those are some of the greatest scriptures I have ever read in my life. I am going to print those out, and read them for the rest of my life. No joke. Thank you very much.

Also, I originally started this thread with a single purpose, which was to alert the people of what is happening behind the scenes. Despite what anyone says, I believe it is more important to know what is being plotted against you than to not know it. The more prepared you are, the better. I truly believe this.

All the greatest men and women in the World used peaceful means as a way to change the World. I withdrawl my stance on fighting fire with fire, and you guys are right, the best we can do, is to put our faith in God, and to trust in Him 100%.

But I will still finish this thread with my original purpose in mind, which is to alert folks around the World to exactly what is going on at the moment. With no biast to how people will react to it. To do simply what a journalist would do, to cover the story for those who wish to have it.

God bless you all.

"Blessed are they who have been persecuted within themselves, for they have truly come to know the Father." - Jesus Christ

tango
Apr 3rd 2008, 10:57 PM
If 1 million people all run off together and get organized and prepared, does that change the picture for you a little bit? Instead of trying to always narrow it down to a single persons reaction? Why don't we think in terms of numbers?

Sure, it means a large group of people die when an atomic bomb explodes. If you want to fight you need to form small militia-style units, not a single huge army that can be taken out in a single hit. But then smaller units can also be taken out in a single hit. Good luck getting medical care when someone falls ill or takes a hit from the people you're fighting, or will you recruit medical staff and stockpile enough medical supplies to treat an army for 3 1/2 years?

Do you think the events described in Revelation will avoid you somehow? How do you propose to feed your army when you can't buy anything without the mark of the beast, when water is turned to blood and the two witnesses have stopped up the sky so it doesn't rain and struck the earth with plagues (Rev 11:6)?

When Revelation says this:

Rev 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

does that mean war with the saints, except for you and your ragtag army? Does it mean all the saints except you will be overcome? Will you stand against the 200,000,000 horsemen described in Rev 9:16?


Perhaps our only hope and solution.

Our only hope? Perhaps trusting in God will give us more hope than trying to battle the beast and the dragon using our own strength.

Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' " "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

Update:
I'm going to repeat my original suggestion. Stop spending so much time reading this stuff and dwelling on the minutiae of it. Spend more time reading the Bible and getting closer to God. When it all comes down one false move could land you in a prison camp anyway, so why not draw closer to God and learn to trust him more?

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 11:25 PM
Sure, it means a large group of people die when an atomic bomb explodes. If you want to fight you need to form small militia-style units, not a single huge army that can be taken out in a single hit. But then smaller units can also be taken out in a single hit. Good luck getting medical care when someone falls ill or takes a hit from the people you're fighting, or will you recruit medical staff and stockpile enough medical supplies to treat an army for 3 1/2 years?

Do you think the events described in Revelation will avoid you somehow? How do you propose to feed your army when you can't buy anything without the mark of the beast, when water is turned to blood and the two witnesses have stopped up the sky so it doesn't rain and struck the earth with plagues (Rev 11:6)?

When Revelation says this:

Rev 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

does that mean war with the saints, except for you and your ragtag army? Does it mean all the saints except you will be overcome? Will you stand against the 200,000,000 horsemen described in Rev 9:16?



Our only hope? Perhaps trusting in God will give us more hope than trying to battle the beast and the dragon using our own strength.

Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' " "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

Update:
I'm going to repeat my original suggestion. Stop spending so much time reading this stuff and dwelling on the minutiae of it. Spend more time reading the Bible and getting closer to God. When it all comes down one false move could land you in a prison camp anyway, so why not draw closer to God and learn to trust him more?

You obviously didn't read a single word of my very last post. It's cool though.

Oh and by the way, if I die for helping to expose this information, then so be it.


[/URL]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=15&verse=13&version=kjv#13"]Jhn 15:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=15&verse=13&version=kjv#13)

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1Jo 2:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=1Jo&chapter=2&verse=6&version=kjv#6)

BlueCandle
Apr 3rd 2008, 11:54 PM
By the way, if any of you truly believe that it is never ok to kill, in self defense, or for any other reason, as Ghandi did, as Jesus did, than you need to A. Bring the American troops in Iraq home RIGHT NOW, because one of the reasons you (those who did so) voted for the war is because you wanted people to be killed (surely you knew that they would be and voted for it anyways) and B. Stop clapping and showing up to ceremonies for those who receive awards and medals for killing people in battle or elsewhere. C. Stop allowing police officers to be credited for gunning down criminals. D. Stop voting for the death penalty where you know someone is being killed.

Many of you appear to me to be hypocrits. And you do not walk as Jesus walked if you believe that it is not ok to kill but it is ok to give permission for others to kill and to cheer them on all the while.

As I said I renounce my decision before to use violence to defend myself if necessary. Violence is NEVER ok. I will go to the camps if I get caught. For us Human Beings, Killing is wrong. Period. Jesus said so Himself. It's ok to lay your life down for another, it's not ok for us to kill.

Only God Himself has the understanding necessary to destroy out of love. We are not capable of the same type of understanding that God is in that sense. We can not destroy another Human Being out of love and be 100% sure that it was the right decision. Only God can see which situation is necessary for destruction due to love. We are capable of mistakes. God is not. He can always see the entire picture, we can not.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 4th 2008, 01:27 AM
By the way, if any of you truly believe that it is never ok to kill, in self defense, or for any other reason, as Ghandi did, as Jesus did, than you need to A. Bring the American troops in Iraq home RIGHT NOW, because one of the reasons you (those who did so) voted for the war is because you wanted people to be killed (surely you knew that they would be and voted for it anyways) and B. Stop clapping and showing up to ceremonies for those who receive awards and medals for killing people in battle or elsewhere. C. Stop allowing police officers to be credited for gunning down criminals. D. Stop voting for the death penalty where you know someone is being killed.

Many of you appear to me to be hypocrits. And you do not walk as Jesus walked if you believe that it is not ok to kill but it is ok to give permission for others to kill and to cheer them on all the while.

You assume too much. I am a former US Army paratrooper and an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran.

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 01:58 AM
You assume too much. I am a US Army paratrooper and an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran.

Ok, now show me where Jesus states that it is ok to kill if you are a US Army paratrooper and an Iraq and Afghanistan soldier.

Did Jesus join the army so that He could kill? When Rome was running around rampant, did He join an opposition army? Did He join His own nations army to defend that nation with the use of violence?

The answer to all those questions, is NO.

Movies might make serving your country and killing for your country look glorious on TV, but in the eyes of Jesus, how glorious is it? Really.

HisBlood
Apr 4th 2008, 02:15 AM
Ok, now show me where Jesus states that it is ok to kill if you are a US Army paratrooper and an Iraq and Afghanistan soldier.

Did Jesus join the army so that He could kill? When Rome was running around rampant, did He join an opposition army? Did He join His own nations army to defend that nation with the use of violence?

The answer to all those questions, is NO.

Movies might make serving your country and killing for your country look glorious on TV, but in the eyes of Jesus, how glorious is it? Really.

Okay, dude . . . that's going too far.

Our troops save your sorry rear-end every day. They are brave, courageous, wonderful young men and women that put their life on the lone for their country every single day. They stand up for what is right and do not under any circumstances back down from a righteous fight. None of them join the army to kill. They join because it's what they have been called to do by God and out of a sense of true patriotism.

I'm proud of our troops and I thank God every day that we have such great people to protect me and my country. I know that they are doing just what God has called them to do.

For someone to demean and belittle our troops in a public forum is just disgraceful. You should be ashamed.

HisLeast
Apr 4th 2008, 02:34 AM
Ok, now show me where Jesus states that it is ok to kill if you are a US Army paratrooper and an Iraq and Afghanistan soldier.

Did Jesus join the army so that He could kill? When Rome was running around rampant, did He join an opposition army? Did He join His own nations army to defend that nation with the use of violence?

The answer to all those questions, is NO.

Movies might make serving your country and killing for your country look glorious on TV, but in the eyes of Jesus, how glorious is it? Really.

I don't mean this to sound crass or anything... but have you read the old testament at all?

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 4th 2008, 02:43 AM
Ok, now show me where Jesus states that it is ok to kill if you are a US Army paratrooper and an Iraq and Afghanistan soldier.

Did Jesus join the army so that He could kill? When Rome was running around rampant, did He join an opposition army? Did He join His own nations army to defend that nation with the use of violence?

The answer to all those questions, is NO.

Movies might make serving your country and killing for your country look glorious on TV, but in the eyes of Jesus, how glorious is it? Really.

It was a response to your tired attack on all of us hypocrites. You should really figure out which side you're on, because you begin by saying we should all stand up and kill anyone and everyone who disagrees with alex jones. Then you say some lame little bit about ghandi and peaceful protest and how we are all hypocrites and what-not. Then, when it becomes apparent that you have no idea what you're talking about, you turn around and attack anyone who goes against your narrow mold.

I could post verses that show God taking a direct hand in supporting nations in military victory in the old testament, I could also post verses of Jesus supporting soldiers, but really..what is the point when you aren't receptive?

Again, you assume too much by implying that I enlisted because of movies. That is plain asinine, but at least I didn't make any life decision based on fear that someone else has implanted in my head.

*edit*

Not everyone can be Jesus, if you will notice, not everyone he met was the Mahdi.

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 03:07 AM
Okay, dude . . . that's going too far.

Our troops save your sorry rear-end every day. They are brave, courageous, wonderful young men and women that put their life on the lone for their country every single day. They stand up for what is right and do not under any circumstances back down from a righteous fight. None of them join the army to kill. They join because it's what they have been called to do by God and out of a sense of true patriotism.

I'm proud of our troops and I thank God every day that we have such great people to protect me and my country. I know that they are doing just what God has called them to do.

For someone to demean and belittle our troops in a public forum is just disgraceful. You should be ashamed.

You didn't answer the question. Show me where Jesus says that it's ok to kill if you are a soldier.

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 03:08 AM
I don't mean this to sound crass or anything... but have you read the old testament at all?

I didn't say show me where people in the Bible have killed. I asked for someone to show me where Jesus states that it's ok.

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 03:10 AM
It was a response to your tired attack on all of us hypocrites. You should really figure out which side you're on, because you begin by saying we should all stand up and kill anyone and everyone who disagrees with alex jones. Then you say some lame little bit about ghandi and peaceful protest and how we are all hypocrites and what-not. Then, when it becomes apparent that you have no idea what you're talking about, you turn around and attack anyone who goes against your narrow mold.

I could post verses that show God taking a direct hand in supporting nations in military victory in the old testament, I could also post verses of Jesus supporting soldiers, but really..what is the point when you aren't receptive?

Again, you assume too much by implying that I enlisted because of movies. That is plain asinine, but at least I didn't make any life decision based on fear that someone else has implanted in my head.

*edit*

Not everyone can be Jesus, if you will notice, not everyone he met was the Mahdi.

Really? Show me them then. I don't believe you. And let me ask you this, when Peter attacked the soldier who was taking Jesus into custody, did Jesus reward him with a medal, or did he scold him? When he cut off the soldiers ear, what did Jesus do?

Killing is wrong. I understand that now more than maybe I ever did before.

If you killed your enemy on the battlefield, I wouldn't put it past Jesus to ressurect Him from the dead if He were there to see it.

All you who have killed, repent while you are still in your body. And yes that includes you Clavica. I don't even know where your true allegiance lies. To the United States government first? Or to Jesus first? I'm not so sure you will be on our side when all this goes down. The Christians side that is.

diffangle
Apr 4th 2008, 03:35 AM
[quote=BlueCandle;1594390]Look, I am going to be honest, those are some of the greatest scriptures I have ever read in my life. I am going to print those out, and read them for the rest of my life. No joke. Thank you very much.

I'm glad those Scriptures blessed you. :) There's many more(all of them) Scriptures that are a blessing, that's why it's good to spend time and focus on the Scriptures. His Word is Truth...

Jhn 17:17 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=17&verse=17&version=kjv#17)Sanctify them through Thy Truth: Thy Word is Truth.



Also, I originally started this thread with a single purpose, which was to alert the people of what is happening behind the scenes. Despite what anyone says, I believe it is more important to know what is being plotted against you than to not know it. The more prepared you are, the better. I truly believe this.

As long as it isn't getting you or others wound up, fearful, or angry... once again there's better things to focus on. ;)



All the greatest men and women in the World used peaceful means as a way to change the World. I withdrawl my stance on fighting fire with fire, and you guys are right, the best we can do, is to put our faith in God, and to trust in Him 100%.

Amein! :pp



But I will still finish this thread with my original purpose in mind, which is to alert folks around the World to exactly what is going on at the moment. With no biast to how people will react to it. To do simply what a journalist would do, to cover the story for those who wish to have it.

That's fine but please be careful not to waste too much quality time on fruitless things/worries. :blush:


God bless you all.
Same to you. :hug:



"Blessed are they who have been persecuted within themselves, for they have truly come to know the Father." - Jesus Christ

Mat 11:28 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=11&v=28&t=KJV#28)Come unto Me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Mat&chapter=11&verse=29&version=kjv#29)Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Jer 6:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jer&chapter=6&verse=16&version=kjv#16)¶Thus saith YHWH, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where [is] the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 4th 2008, 04:00 AM
Really? Show me them then. I don't believe you. And let me ask you this, when Peter attacked the soldier who was taking Jesus into custody, did Jesus reward him with a medal, or did he scold him? When he cut off the soldiers ear, what did Jesus do?

Killing is wrong. I understand that now more than maybe I ever did before.

If you killed your enemy on the battlefield, I wouldn't put it past Jesus to ressurect Him from the dead if He were there to see it.

All you who have killed, repent while you are still in your body. And yes that includes you Clavica. I don't even know where your true allegiance lies. To the United States government first? Or to Jesus first? I'm not so sure you will be on our side when all this goes down. The Christians side that is.

Clavicula, it's spelled Clavicula. It's Latin and not entirely difficult to copy.

One verse I mentioned is in my signature, another is in Romans, and the other you will have to find on your own. Saying that you don't believe me is very telling and suggests that you don't read the Bible much. It's okay, I don't read as much as I should, either.

Were I a lesser man, I would probably get upset at your words, but I'm afraid that simply isn't the case. I have little patience for weak-minded fools.

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 05:50 AM
Clavicula, it's spelled Clavicula. It's Latin and not entirely difficult to copy.

One verse I mentioned is in my signature, another is in Romans, and the other you will have to find on your own. Saying that you don't believe me is very telling and suggests that you don't read the Bible much. It's okay, I don't read as much as I should, either.

Were I a lesser man, I would probably get upset at your words, but I'm afraid that simply isn't the case. I have little patience for weak-minded fools.

Well I see nothing in your signature. But thats not the point I guess hey? The point is what I am about to post....

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 05:51 AM
Those who study Bible prophecy have long known that great persecution of believers in Christ shall come to every nation, especially in the end times prior to Jesus Christ's return (In consciousness or physical form). Matthew 24 makes this abundantly clear.

Matthew 24:3 - "And as He sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately and saying, "tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end?" (Note carefully the time frame they are speaking of, and realize that He is speaking especially of this end-time period prior to His return)."

Jesus begins to explain to them many things. He warns of false Christ's, wars and rumors of wars, of nation rising against nation. He warns them of famines and pestilences and earthquakes in many different places. But then He states that "All these are the beginning of sorrows."
He then begins to expound on the coming reality of end-time persecution.

Matthew 24:9 - "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you, and YE SHALL BE HATED OF ALL NATIONS for My name's sake. And THEN shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another."

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 05:52 AM
Jesus speaks of false prophets arising and deceiving many.

Matthew 24:11 - He reveals that iniquity, or rebellion, will abound, and the love of many shall grow cold as a result.

(We know we are witnessing that hour in which rebellion is abounding and even glorified, both in America and throughout the world. Acts of rebellion which people were formerly ashamed of are now being paraded openly in public and glorified on televisions and movies and rap music.)

He concludes this passage describing the nature of end-time persecution before His return by stating, "BUT HE THAT SHALL ENDURE UNTO THE END, THE
SAME SHALL BE SAVED ." Matthew 24:13

Note carefully that He did NOT say, "But he that is RAPTURED, the same shall be saved," but rather "He that shall ENDURE UNTO THE END, the same shall be saved." This is speaking of overcoming persecution and temptation and remaining faithful to Jesus Christ even unto death, and it is speaking clearly in the context of end-time persecution.

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 05:53 AM
Only under a coming ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT that is against God and His Christ (the "New World Order" as it is often referred to today) can believers in Jesus Christ be simultaneously hated in every nation. Jesus declares that ALL NATIONS shall hate His followers in the end times prior to His return, and deliver them up to be afflicted (persecution) and to ultimately be put to death.

And when Jesus states "ALL NATIONS," He means "all nations." All nations must then include the United States of America, in order to fulfill His prophetic word which cannot be broken.

Many believers in Christ have lived under the present delusion that serious persecution unto imprisonment and martyrdom can NEVER take place in America. They point to America's God-fearing founders, the Constitution, First Amendment rights, etc., and many other factors to insist that end-time persecution of this nature can not happen on American soil. Or, they insist that before such persecution could ever take place, the "Rapture" will occur (even before they can "suffer the loss of a hangnail" for Jesus' sake) and they will be taken out from end-time persecution before it can come.

Both of these doctrines are deceptions. They have no foundation in the Word of God and in the words of Jesus Christ (Who IS the Word of God.)

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 05:55 AM
Jesus Christ declared firmly that end time persecution would come to His followers in ALL NATIONS. And that he that ENDURES TO THE END would be saved. (NOT he that is "Raptured!") In fact, He even warned that there would be times (undoubtedly of severe persecution) in which His disciples would long to see the hour of His coming, but that it would not necessarily occur at that desired time to rescue them.

Jesus spoke these words to give a foundation of understanding to His people, and to His believers who would face these tribulations in the end-times as well. He wants His people/people who have accepted God into their life in one form or another to be prepared for the things that they are called to suffer for His name's sake, so that no one might be overcome of evil nor unprepared to face such testing. He warns His people, so that they might begin to prepare themselves spiritually to endure and overcome what they are to face for His sake.

As people have traveled across America, they have been saddened and disappointed by the response of many pastors and many believers in God to this pertinent information. They have turned aside from the truth embodied in end-time prophecy, in order to embrace the doctrine of "the Rapture" or have said that "... because of America's Godly heritage in it's beginning, such incidents of persecution could NEVER happen in America."

BlueCandle
Apr 4th 2008, 05:56 AM
People have repeatedly heard pastors lead their congregations to believe that before end-time persecution can come upon the Believers in America, the Rapture will come! Yet, this has not proven to be the reality in many nations in recent decades for people who believe in Christ. We know that millions died in Russia and the former Soviet Union for their faith and unwavering testimony of Jesus Christ. How many have died in China for their faith? How many in the Sudan? Indonesia? Nepal? Cuba? Africa? And all within less than the past one hundred years.

For such persecuted believers, there was no Rapture to save them from end-time persecution. Rather, the Words of Jesus Christ held true: "He that endureth unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Did you know that America is filled with unknown martyrs? Although the names of many of them will never be known to us except in eternity, Believers have been dying for their faith in America for many years. How?

Hard-core Satanism in America, has caused the reality of both children and adults often being targeted and abducted for sacrifice BECAUSE they were believers in Christ (or from homes of people who believe in Christ) and taken away to be brutally tortured and sacrificed. And just because you may have never heard of this means nothing!

tango
Apr 4th 2008, 06:34 AM
You obviously didn't read a single word of my very last post. It's cool though.

Oh and by the way, if I die for helping to expose this information, then so be it.


Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Jhn 15:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=15&verse=13&version=kjv#13)

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1Jo 2:6 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=1Jo&chapter=2&verse=6&version=kjv#6)


I read it alright, although I'm starting to wish I hadn't bothered. Personally if I'm going to be martyred I'd rather it was for preaching God's word than warning people what another human thinks is going on.

HisLeast
Apr 4th 2008, 12:23 PM
Only under a coming ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT that is against God and His Christ (the "New World Order" as it is often referred to today) can believers in Jesus Christ be simultaneously hated in every nation. Jesus declares that ALL NATIONS shall hate His followers in the end times prior to His return, and deliver them up to be afflicted (persecution) and to ultimately be put to death.

Only if you don't want to think creatively. It could also mean that Christians are reviled in every nation. The truth is, we don't know how its going to happen, only that it is.

You know... you bring up a lot of general information about the end times: how Christians will be persecuted, how there will be wars, famines, etc. None of that proves the specifics of what you've brought to us, yet you're angry that we aren't buying your Alex Jones doctrine. We aren't disputing the end times are scary, or that they'll come some day. We dispute that some of this "evidence" is unbiased, undoctored, and in support of the specifics you propose.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 4th 2008, 02:27 PM
BlueCandle, why are you so combative? What's the real problem here? Keeping anger and hatred in your heart isn't a good idea.

tango
Apr 4th 2008, 09:56 PM
Worrying doesn't do a lot of good either:

Mat 6:25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
Mat 6:26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
Mat 6:28 "So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;
Mat 6:29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mat 6:31 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
Mat 6:32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
Mat 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

BlueCandle
Apr 7th 2008, 12:57 AM
Worrying doesn't do a lot of good either:

Mat 6:25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
Mat 6:26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
Mat 6:28 "So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;
Mat 6:29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mat 6:31 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
Mat 6:32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
Mat 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Ok, but the birds do not have other birds conspiring against them to wipe them off the planet, and to take over the World. To create a monopoly over their food supply, and to cast them into prison.

There is a bit of a difference there. Many of the jews that died during World War 3 would have probably scoffed at those scriptures. I'm not saying that the scriptures aren't the truth, but what I am saying is that they didn't do much for the jews in the concentration camps who literally STARVED TO DEATH.

Don't shoot the messenger.

tango
Apr 7th 2008, 06:25 AM
Ok, but the birds do not have other birds conspiring against them to wipe them off the planet, and to take over the World. To create a monopoly over their food supply, and to cast them into prison.

There is a bit of a difference there. Many of the jews that died during World War 3 would have probably scoffed at those scriptures. I'm not saying that the scriptures aren't the truth, but what I am saying is that they didn't do much for the jews in the concentration camps who literally STARVED TO DEATH.

Don't shoot the messenger.

So what are you trying to say here? Are you saying that we shouldn't trust God? Are you saying that we are supposed to stay alive at any cost, even when God is saying our time is up?

If you're going to go your own way how are you going to stop yourself from starving to death anyway? You can only hoard so much food, you can only carry so much food when you're on the move and it's hard to grow food when it isn't raining and when swarms of locusts are everywhere, devouring anything in sight.

BlueCandle
Apr 7th 2008, 04:13 PM
So what are you trying to say here? Are you saying that we shouldn't trust God? Are you saying that we are supposed to stay alive at any cost, even when God is saying our time is up?

If you're going to go your own way how are you going to stop yourself from starving to death anyway? You can only hoard so much food, you can only carry so much food when you're on the move and it's hard to grow food when it isn't raining and when swarms of locusts are everywhere, devouring anything in sight.

That not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that we can't simply hide behind scriptures and expect everything to be ok. We need to each, personally, speak with God ourselves, and ask Him to guide us in the right direction.

Also, we need to put our own work in. We can't put it all on God. We were given a brain and a body for a reason.

BlueCandle
Apr 7th 2008, 04:14 PM
The news media in America IS CIA/Illuminati/government controlled, and they make sure that their people are in place throughout our nation to ensure blackout of such information to the average American.

America's Satanists are very well organized and operate under a high level of covertness to protect their names, reputations, and legally. In reports from SATANISM IN AMERICA TODAY, There have been instances documented in many accounts from former high level Satanists of people being targeted BECAUSE they were believers in Christ. They were stalked, abducted, and sacrificed for their faith.

As one previous Satanist admitted, "Satan was demanding Christ's followers for sacrifice, and by golly, we obliged him. They were targeted, stalked and sacrificed like all the rest..." (From a former CIA assassin, Satanist leader in one state, now a Christ follower/lecturer exposing the occult.)

BlueCandle
Apr 7th 2008, 04:15 PM
One eye-witness account from the mountains of NC admitted that, as a Satanist, she participated in the abduction of a well known believer in Christ who was a witness/intercessor in that region that the local Satanists hated. She was abducted while walking home on a rural road at dusk. Their van pulled up next to her, men jumped out and seized her and she was thrown into the back of the van. Her mouth, hands and feet were then duct-taped and she was injected with a knock-out drug. When she revived, she found herself chained naked to a Satanic altar deep in the heart of the Great Smoky Mountains, in a massive cave known to all Satanists in that region.

She was then tempted to deny Jesus Christ as they offered to let her live IF she would work for them to infiltrate churches, spy on Christians, etc. According to this former Satanist' account, she refused. Her only reply was: "I BELIEVE IN CHRIST!" And they then proceeded to torture her most brutally, until she finally died. The former Satanist friend never forgot this. And her father, who participated in the martyrdom of this young woman, eventually became a Believer in Christ as well.

BlueCandle
Apr 7th 2008, 04:16 PM
Other eye-witness accounts from the cases documented include followers of Christ being abducted and nailed to literal crosses and tortured to death. One abducted pastor pleaded with his Satanist persecutors to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Savior, even after he was nailed to such a cross. Finally wearying of his Christian witness, one Satanist took a knife and slashed his throat to silence him. He died on that cross for the testimony of Jesus Christ...in the heart of those mountains known as "the Bible Belt." (People, how little so many of you know about true persecution in America!)

From Indiana, we have the testimony of former high priestess Elaine, now a Christian exposing Satanism. Elaine's daughter Claudia, also being trained at one time to become a high priestess like her mother, admitted: "We Satanists in Indiana even invented a cross that would separate in the middle after the victim was crucified. We also designed wooden spikes instead of metal nails, because it would inflict more pain on the victim. After the victim was nailed to the cross, they were then torn to pieces as we separated the cross into two sections..." believers in God were frequently their victims, both adult and child.

BlueCandle
Apr 7th 2008, 04:17 PM
Friends, how many times has this scene been repeated throughout the centuries, beginning with the early believers in Christ??? When Christ's followers were brought before Roman tribunals and questioned about their faith, they had a choice. Throw a pinch of incense on the altar to Caesar and declare him to be "divine" ("Caesar is lord") OR to boldly declare "I am a believer in Christ" And for their confession of "I am a follower of Christ" and refusal to bow the knee to Caesar, history records that they were brutally tortured and killed, not even young believers being spared.

Throughout the centuries such persecutions have been repeated worldwide...YET the believers have survived, overcome and even grown during such times. We faithful of God/Christ in America have this great potential to both overcome and to grow, even during the coming season of great persecution. For we, too, are called to be FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH and to be overcomers in the midst of tribulation.

However, the people of God are not being prepared realistically in America for end-time persecution and martyrdom to come in America. Most of Christs followers are NOT being prepared to "contend earnestly for the faith." In fact, many have compromised their witness and testimony of Jesus Christ even under normal circumstances. Often, when threatened to "leave your beliefs in God or Christ out of the workplace," they have consented and refused to be the witnesses for Christ God's Word calls them to be. Often compromise with any of Jesus's texts can begin quite slowly and subtly, but eventually lead to a tragic denial of Jesus Christ in the end. Of this we must beware.

BlueCandle
Apr 7th 2008, 04:18 PM
So many are sitting back and hoping for a "Rapture" to take them out before they could ever face end time persecution and martyrdom for His name's sake. Yet they have NOT ONE SCRIPTURE TO STAND ON that conclusively declares this expected scenario to be fulfilled!

NOT ONE SCRIPTURE! In fact, they have just the opposite, as revealed in Matthew 24 where it talks about false prophets deceiving people, which includes falsely teaching that such end time persecution will not overtake them, and that they shall escape by the "Rapture."

By the way, are we living in the time period close to the second coming of Jesus Christ? Of course! Many end-time Bible prophecies being fulfilled in this generation make plain we are living in the end-time period near to His return. But again, since Jesus plainly declared that NO ONE knows the day nor the hour, again it is presumptuous for North American Christians to believe that the "Rapture" will be based upon their desire to escape end-time persecution and hence avoid testing and refining. We are given no such promise that He will return just in time to escape prophesied end-time persecution.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 7th 2008, 04:24 PM
We aren't given a promise, you are right, but I haven't seen anyone in this thread depending on one. I have seen, though, everyone's willingness to comply with God's wishes, except you who wants to kill anyone and everyone you can before killing yourself in order to escape God's judgement.

tango
Apr 7th 2008, 04:48 PM
That not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that we can't simply hide behind scriptures and expect everything to be ok. We need to each, personally, speak with God ourselves, and ask Him to guide us in the right direction.

Also, we need to put our own work in. We can't put it all on God. We were given a brain and a body for a reason.

I'd be curious to know how you propose to survive the tribulation, other than relying on God.

Do you honestly think that the government of the antichrist will permit you to keep your guns? Don't you think the US will follow the UK in banning privately held weapons? If it does then you're faced with the choice of scrapping your plans entirely, or breaking the law. If you keep your guns you won't be able to buy any more ammunition. You won't be able to buy food. If anybody finds you they will execute you. Sooner or later you'll run out of luck - relying on your own wits may delay the inevitable but won't keep you going forever.


Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
Pro 3:6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
Pro 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

HisLeast
Apr 7th 2008, 04:59 PM
So many are sitting back and hoping for a "Rapture" to take them out before they could ever face end time persecution and martyrdom for His name's sake.

For someone advocating suicide to escape persecution you sure have a lot of mean things to say about other Christians you know. "sitting back"? How dare you. You have no insight into the lives of many Christians out there other than what you ascribe to them to fit your Alex Jones rhetoric. Some people at my church (http://www.moodychurch.org) have a pre-trib rapture view point but quess what they're doing with their time? Leading bible studies, ministering to Chicago's most notorious housing projects, and going on missions.

They aren't spending time with Alex Jones & Company bending facts to fit the conspiracy theory and maligning their fellow bretheren for either (A) doubting or (B) placing their faith in Christ


Matthew 24 - "But they have hearkened to the voices of false prophets from behind many pulpits, who have prophesied to them falsely that such end time persecution will not overtake them, and they shall escape by the "Rapture."

Can you give a verse reference? I see no such thing in Matthew chapter 24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=9;).


By the way, are we living in the time period close to the second coming of Jesus Christ? Of course! Many end-time Bible prophecies being fulfilled in this generation make plain we are living in the end-time period near to His return.

Such as?


But again, since Jesus plainly declared that NO ONE knows the day nor the hour, again it is presumptuous for North American Christians to believe that the "Rapture" will be based upon their desire to escape end-time persecution and hence avoid testing and refining. We are given no such promise that He will return just in time to escape prophesied end-time persecution.

Wouldn't it be equally presumptuous to proclaim the Alex Jones' conspiracy theories as the definitive vehicle of the end times?

I'm really confused as to what you want here anyway BlueCandle. At the start of the thread it was all about "we" having to "stop them". Then it turned into "don't get on the trains" (which would suck if the trains are actually a large scale evac option during emergencies), then it was how you'd commit suicide before being forced aboard, then a call for us to be open minded, and now a tirade against pre-tribbers. I don't get it.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 7th 2008, 05:09 PM
Forum troll is a troll.

tango
Apr 7th 2008, 07:41 PM
I'm inclined to agree. Dropping my subscription to this thread.

BlueCandle
Apr 8th 2008, 03:05 AM
I'd be curious to know how you propose to survive the tribulation, other than relying on God.

Do you honestly think that the government of the antichrist will permit you to keep your guns? Don't you think the US will follow the UK in banning privately held weapons? If it does then you're faced with the choice of scrapping your plans entirely, or breaking the law. If you keep your guns you won't be able to buy any more ammunition. You won't be able to buy food. If anybody finds you they will execute you. Sooner or later you'll run out of luck - relying on your own wits may delay the inevitable but won't keep you going forever.


Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
Pro 3:6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
Pro 3:7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.


No, I don't. I believe that people will rise up and demand that the government back off.

Seriously, I think Americans in general are smarter than you give them credit for. And I believe that many will march on the streets and demand their rights. As they have done many times in the past.

BlueCandle
Apr 8th 2008, 03:07 AM
For someone advocating suicide to escape persecution you sure have a lot of mean things to say about other Christians you know. "sitting back"? How dare you. You have no insight into the lives of many Christians out there other than what you ascribe to them to fit your Alex Jones rhetoric. Some people at my church (http://www.moodychurch.org) have a pre-trib rapture view point but quess what they're doing with their time? Leading bible studies, ministering to Chicago's most notorious housing projects, and going on missions.

They aren't spending time with Alex Jones & Company bending facts to fit the conspiracy theory and maligning their fellow bretheren for either (A) doubting or (B) placing their faith in Christ



Can you give a verse reference? I see no such thing in Matthew chapter 24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=9;).



Such as?



Wouldn't it be equally presumptuous to proclaim the Alex Jones' conspiracy theories as the definitive vehicle of the end times?

I'm really confused as to what you want here anyway BlueCandle. At the start of the thread it was all about "we" having to "stop them". Then it turned into "don't get on the trains" (which would suck if the trains are actually a large scale evac option during emergencies), then it was how you'd commit suicide before being forced aboard, then a call for us to be open minded, and now a tirade against pre-tribbers. I don't get it.

Look Brother, All I'm saying is keep your eyes open, and don't let your government lead you like a cow to the slaughter.

The Matthew reference was more of a summation than anything else. I changed it to avoid further confusion.

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:44 AM
Hear what happened to Chinese believers of Christ, prior to communist takeover in China, who were told by their pastors, "...you have nothing to worry about...before the communists can take over and persecute you, we will be raptured!" Yes, this was commonly taught in China in the churches at that time, as Christ's followers became uneasy over the rise of communism to power. Yet...there was NO "Rapture" to take out the Chinese believers in God when communism came to power. They instead found themselves arrested, imprisoned, tortured for their faith and martyred. And their persecutions and martyrdoms continue to this day. And reports began to come out of China of the Believers cursing their pastors and becoming angry at God because of this!

"Pastor! How could this happen! You said we would be raptured before we would ever be arrested and persecuted! How could you have failed to prepare us! How could God fail us?"

And the reality was, God did not fail them. Christ's words plainly revealed what would come under end time persecution to His people. God fails no one! But sadly, often His pastors DO. And such Pastors then become false prophets to His people. And tragically, God's people often PREFER false prophets in the pulpits of their Churches, whenever the truth is too hard to bear and is something their flesh does not want!

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:44 AM
Pastors often stated that they could never reveal such truth because they might then frighten and lose members (hence lose money through loss of tithes). Yes, 501-C-3 compromised Pastors have proven many times they love numbers and money MORE than the truth and more than the Souls of their congregations.

The members of these congregations falsely taught that "peace and plenty" was what the future held for America, and that they would be "Raptured" out of all persecution to come, even now cursing their Pastors and becoming angry at God as everything God's Word warned of begins to be fulfilled...this time on American soil.

(Friends, don't even bother to curse such Pastors: they are already under the laws of Karma for failing to prepare His people for this hour of testing! And the blood of those who fall away as a result of their false teachings will be upon the hands of such Pastors, who have prophesied falsely to them of "peace and prosperity" when prophecy revealed something quite different.)

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:45 AM
Nationwide initiative trains volunteers to teach congregations to "obey the government" during seizure of guns, property, forced inoculations and forced relocation.

A Pastor has come forward to blow the whistle on a nationwide FEMA program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.

In March of this year the Pastor was invited to attend a meeting of his local FEMA chapter which circulated around preparedness for a potential bio-terrorist attack, any natural disaster or a nationally declared emergency.

The FEMA directors told the Pastors that attended that it was their job to help implement FEMA and Homeland Security directives in anticipation of any of these eventualities. The first directive was for Pastors to preach to their congregations Romans 13, the often taken out of context bible passage that was used by Hitler to hoodwink Christians into supporting him, in order to teach them to "obey the government" when martial law is declared.

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:46 AM
It was related to the Pastors that quarantines, martial law and forced relocation were a problem for state authorities when enforcing federal mandates due to the "cowboy mentality" of citizens standing up for their property and second amendment rights as well as farmers defending their crops and livestock from seizure. It was stressed that the Pastors needed to preach subservience to the authorities ahead of time in preparation for the round-ups and to make it clear to the congregation that "this is for their own good."

Other preachers and Pastors have stated that this program is a nationwide initiative and a literal Soviet model whereby the churches are being systematically infiltrated by government volunteers and used as conduits for martial law training and conditioning. The Pastor was told that over 1,300 counties were already on board.

It falls under the umbrella of the NVOAD program which is training volunteers in a "Peer to Peer" program in a neighborhood setting.

Pastors were told that the would be backed up by law enforcement in controlling uncooperative individuals and that they would even lead SWAT teams in attempting to quell resistance.

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:47 AM
"We get the the picture that we're going to be standing at the end of some farmer's lane while he's standing there with his double barrel, saying we have to confiscate your cows, your chickens, your firearms," said the Pastor.

The Pastor elaborated on how the directives were being smoke screened by an Orwellian alteration of their names.

"They're not using the term 'quarantine' - this is the term they're going to be using - it's called 'social distancing' don't you like that one," said the Pastor.

He also highlighted how detention camps had been renamed to give them a friendly warm veneer.

"Three months ago it was quarantine and relocation centers and now it's 'community centers' and these are going to be activated at the local schools," he said.

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:48 AM
The Pastor has outlined the plan to carry out mass vaccination and enforced drugging programs in times of crisis such as a bird flu outbreak.

"In the event of an outbreak or a bio-terrorist attack, there'd be a mass vaccination....they have a program nationwide 'Pills in People's Palm In 48 Hours'," said the Pastor who was told that Walmart had been designated as the central outlet of this procedure.

The Pastor said that many attendees believed in the necessity of the program and were completely unaware to the motivations behind its true purpose and were offered incentives to become volunteers such as preferential treatment and first access for themselves and their families to vaccines and food shipments in times of emergency.

Which roads to close off after martial law was declared had also already been mapped out.

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:49 AM
In another twilight zone Nazi-like spectacle, Pastors were asked to make a pledge or an affirmation during the meeting to fulfil the roles ascribed to them by FEMA. They were given assurances that they would be covered by full compensation in the event of resisters injuring them during property seizures and round-ups.

The Pastor said that his county had already succumbed to a tattle-tale like mentality where neighbors were reporting neighbors to the authorities for things like having chickens in their back yard. The brown shirt precedent has been set whereby people immediately turn to the authorities in fealty whenever their paranoid suspicions, fueled by zealous government and media fearmongering, are heightened.

The Pastor also said that the completion of the first stage of the program was slated for very soon. At this point all the counties within the United States would be networked as part of the so-called disaster relief program.

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:50 AM
Here is actual KSLA NEWS footage of Pastors being trained to help crack down and round up American Citizens during Martial Law:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRIDNQNsUss

MikeAD
Apr 12th 2008, 03:54 AM
Here is actual KSLA NEWS footage of Pastors being trained to help crack down and round up American Citizens during Martial Law:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRIDNQNsUss

I've heard for about 5 years that Clergy were being trained to tell their flocks to go to camps. Im sure that most of them think they are good.

IM NOT TRYING TO DEBATE THE TRUTH OF THAT ABOVE STATEMENT.

What I would like to know, has anyone here ever heard any of this in their own Church?

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:54 AM
This is not a joke folks. IT IS REAL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAv-LbARKyQ&feature=related


And the truth should be known to ALL Christians living in America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgfihRJe71k&feature=related (Part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFLf6rUVTUw&feature=related (Part 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN2kwpQofTg&feature=related (Part 3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruymjp0vaiw&feature=related (Part 4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy0tzFZbMjg&feature=related (Part 5)


FEMA's Pastors folks. Not YOURS.

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 03:55 AM
Satanist hate crimes are rampant throughout our nation. Satanist infiltration into church organizations and ministries is widespread.

The Satanist/Illuminist subculture has successfully infiltrated America's schools, Universities, law enforcement, government, judicial and in fact penetrated every level of our society. They are networking furiously together to bring forth their New World Order/Luciferian based agenda. And they are destroying countless innocent lives in the process, and will destroy millions more in their bloody pursuit. Satanist recruitment into covens is at an all time high...recruiters even go out on Friday nights in college towns or cities and recruit kids on the streets, dressed fully in black robes!

And where is the Church??? God has commissioned His people unto whom he has entrusted power and authority to wage mighty Spiritual warfare against the works of the enemy. Even the Bible declares "Jesus Christ was manifested to DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL." He did not commission the police...nor the local judge... nor the sheriff's department (they are all infiltrated by Satanists anyhow!) He has commissioned HIS PEOPLE to stand in the gap, to wage war against the enemy who is destroying countless lives across our nation continually.

Because God has not given us a spirit of FEAR, but of POWER, LOVE and a SOUND MIND, and has continually instructed us to FEAR NOT, we are to therefore march boldly forward with the power of God and CRUSH THE WORKS OF THE ENEMY.

People should be ashamed of the priests/pastors who have admitted that they are too afraid to deal with Satanism in their city...too afraid to stand up and do something about it.

It is time to make a difference...NOW!

Satan has already gotten away with murder unchallenged much too long...and wait 'til you see what they have in mind for YOU under coming martial law!!! Please...help make the difference.

HisLeast
Apr 12th 2008, 10:15 PM
Satanist hate crimes are rampant throughout our nation. Satanist infiltration into church organizations and ministries is widespread.

And still there are many churches out there working in righteousness. How come you never talk about them?


The Satanist/Illuminist subculture has successfully infiltrated America's schools, Universities, law enforcement, government, judicial and in fact penetrated every level of our society. They are networking furiously together to bring forth their New World Order/Luciferian based agenda. And they are destroying countless innocent lives in the process, and will destroy millions more in their bloody pursuit. Satanist recruitment into covens is at an all time high...recruiters even go out on Friday nights in college towns or cities and recruit kids on the streets, dressed fully in black robes!

Proof?


And where is the Church??? God has commissioned His people unto whom he has entrusted power and authority to wage mighty Spiritual warfare against the works of the enemy. Even the Bible declares "Jesus Christ was manifested to DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL."

I don't know where yours is. Mine is out there ministering in the slums and the nation's most notorious housing projects? So... what ELSE do you want us to do? We've actually asked this question several times throughout the thread, but we haven't heard a clear answer yet, beside vague calls to "wake up".


Because God has not given us a spirit of FEAR, but of POWER, LOVE and a SOUND MIND, and has continually instructed us to FEAR NOT, we are to therefore march boldly forward with the power of God and CRUSH THE WORKS OF THE ENEMY.

Sorry... who's afraid? I'm not. Many of the other posters here are not. My church certainly isn't.


People should be ashamed of the priests/pastors who have admitted that they are too afraid to deal with Satanism in their city...too afraid to stand up and do something about it.

You know what? I would be ashamed, except I haven't met any of them. Ever. And I've been to church in almost every state of the union.


It is time to make a difference...NOW!

And again I ask. What ELSE do you want us to do?

BlueCandle
Apr 12th 2008, 11:21 PM
what ELSE do you want us to do? We've actually asked this question several times throughout the thread, but we haven't heard a clear answer yet, beside vague calls to "wake up".

And again I ask. What ELSE do you want us to do?

You'll have to answer that question for yourself there little guy. What you will do in the end will come down to YOU. I'm just hoping that somehow all our efforts will end up intertwining.

HisLeast
Apr 13th 2008, 12:20 AM
You'll have to answer that question for yourself there little guy. What you will do in the end will come down to YOU. I'm just hoping that somehow all our efforts will end up intertwining.

Little guy huh?

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 13th 2008, 04:55 AM
You'll have to answer that question for yourself there little guy. What you will do in the end will come down to YOU. I'm just hoping that somehow all our efforts will end up intertwining.

So basically, if we aren't willing to kill everyone around us and then ourselves, we're just not doing enough, like you, right?

BlueCandle
Apr 14th 2008, 12:32 AM
So basically, if we aren't willing to kill everyone around us and then ourselves, we're just not doing enough, like you, right?

Very funny.

There aren't too many choices left after those ones though hey? I mean, if you are tossed into one of these camps that is.

One thing I know for sure though, is that YOU WILL end up making a choice.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 14th 2008, 12:58 AM
Very funny.

There aren't too many choices left after those ones though hey? I mean, if you are tossed into one of these camps that is.

One thing I know for sure though, is that YOU WILL end up making a choice.

I already have, my choice is for my lord and saviour, Jesus Christ. That choice stands regardless of what happens to my physical body. My soul is prepared, how's yours?

teddyv
Apr 14th 2008, 03:13 AM
My soul is prepared, how's yours?

Completely unrelated to the thread, but reading all I could hear was the voice of that guy from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.:lol:

BlueCandle
Apr 14th 2008, 05:10 AM
So basically, if we aren't willing to kill everyone around us and then ourselves, we're just not doing enough, like you, right?




I have killed many and really have no problems with that



Funny, that last quote was a quote that you gave from your post in this thread on Mar 30th 2008, at 10:33 PM.

Apparently, you "Have no problem" with killing.

So I don't quite understand your judgement of what I said about killing before (Which I have now denounced).

I have killed no one in my Life. You stated you have killed more than one.

MikeAD
Apr 14th 2008, 05:49 AM
Funny, that last quote was a quote that you gave from your post in this thread on Mar 30th 2008, at 10:33 PM.

Apparently, you "Have no problem" with killing.

So I don't quite understand your judgement of what I said about killing before (Which I have now denounced).

I have killed no one in my Life. You stated you have killed more than one.


What exactly are you implying?

I don't think you should question Clav's "killing," this is getting a bit absurd.

I agree with you that prison camps are just a step away and most Americans will embrace them, but if this is how you expect to convert people to your cause you aren't going to meet much agreement.

I think you need to re-evaluate your strategies.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 14th 2008, 02:48 PM
Funny, that last quote was a quote that you gave from your post in this thread on Mar 30th 2008, at 10:33 PM.

Apparently, you "Have no problem" with killing.

So I don't quite understand your judgement of what I said about killing before (Which I have now denounced).

I have killed no one in my Life. You stated you have killed more than one.

The difference is that I killed in war as an instrument of my government and fell under the jurisdiction given to governments by the Bible.

You would kill to run counter to God's will, and you would then kill yourself in complete defiance of what God thinks of the subject. Killing for your own individual needs/wants is covered elsewhere in the Bible, I'll leave you to find it.

IWalkWithHim
Apr 14th 2008, 06:07 PM
Believe it or not, I have literally read through most of the posts in this entire thread and I can relate to BlueCandle and the many of you that have statements contrary to BlueCandle's motivation. You know, people come to the Lord for many different reason. Some because of His Love, some because of there knowledge of who He is through reading His Word of hearing a Pastor, some for fear of going to Hell. And there are many other reasons all of which are great considering the end result is learning of God's Love and that is the greatest factor for being a Christian. But I DO see a vantage point that BlueCandle is looking from. Much like Ezekiel did, which was to warn us of things to come as did Isaiah and John to make us aware of the conditions of this world at different intervals alerting us to a state in time (Christ's return, the casting of hell into the lake of fire, moon changing to blood red, the anti-christ's rise to power and so forth) is how I see what BlueCandle is saying. I really see this as being no different. I think that the only point that BlueCandle is really trying to point out here is that events are taking place relative to a change in World Order (North American at this point). Although much of the information shared through his posts are reports, videos and such which could be littered with inconsistancies, many of them DO contain a common denominator. So somewhere in the midst of it all rest the true intent of Satan and his plan for the inevitable rise of the Anti-christ.

Now for those of us that have accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior, much if not all of these events will come to fruition AFTER the rapture of the church which in that case, won't really matter to many of us anyway. But to those that are left behind, and the caos that the world will be consumed in, I can easily see how the "concentration camps" original purpose could now be used to house anyone that may have something to do with the disappearance of a 1/3 of the worlds population. Terroristic interogations, isolation and executions could all be performed at these camps and justified under New World Order Law. Complete control over the military under these newly signed acts may today, have an honest intention at heart, but these laws aren't being inacted for today's government, but tomorrow's. At some point, maybe after many of us have gone on to glory, these laws will be used for sinister purposes under different leadership, most likely, post-rapture.

So I don't condemn BlueCandles attempt at trying to bring to light a shred of information relative to the intentions of our governement. Because I believe (my humble opinion of course!!:D), that at some point, these things very well may happen in the future.

Thanks!

Ninna
Apr 14th 2008, 06:28 PM
I am moving this thread to the Controversial Issues forum.

MikeAD
Apr 14th 2008, 06:29 PM
I am moving this thread to the Controversial Issues forum.

I'm suprised it took this long :D.

MikeAD
Apr 15th 2008, 02:59 AM
Since I think that BlueCandle still is a few posts shy of being able to post in this section I will re-ask this question.

Has anyone actually heard any sort rhetoric in their own church? Im referring to "give up your guns and go into FEMA camps, its what Jesus wants."

I've never heard it, nor has anyone I know, so Im curious to see if anyone else has.

HisLeast
Apr 15th 2008, 11:48 AM
Has anyone actually heard any sort rhetoric in their own church? Im referring to "give up your guns and go into FEMA camps, its what Jesus wants."

Never. I don't buy that "fact" for a minute. How are they training these "pastors"? Are they rounding them up and forcing them to take FEMA indoctrination courses? Has anyone else's pastor mysteriously disappeared to talk to FEMA or any other government agency?

Just doesn't make any sense.