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JenniferBerry
Mar 13th 2008, 06:21 PM
When did beauty turn into having to be sexy. The other day when I was out I was noticing how women are just not beautiful anymore. It's hard to see the inward beauty because of the outward things showing.

Just a word for the young women in here you will be judged one day for everything you do and say. And if you cause a man to stumble because you are showing things that you shouldn't be showing it would be better for you to have a mill stone tied around your neck and thrown into the bottom of the ocean.

ddmor
Mar 13th 2008, 06:34 PM
Very good point Jennifer!!

when I was a young woman - coming out of human secularism, a halter top was my top of choice - a Preacher's wife took me aside and gave me something to think about. If you see a hooker wearing it, you can pretty much be sure it's probably to titilate their clientel, so should women of the church be wearing the same thing?

I found I couldn't bring my young son's to the biking/running/walking paths (for gym) because women there saw nothing wrong with walking around in their bras!!

I also heard a radio preacher say "If you're obsessing over the outward man, the inward man is being neglected."

lost_little_one
Mar 13th 2008, 06:38 PM
i agree with both posts. I know when i was in school, i hung around a lot of guys and they would always comment on what girls were wearing, or what they would like to do with said girls. (most of them weren't Christians unfortunately). I never wanted to be an object in men's eyes and have thankfully worn little clothing that reveals much of anything.

Now that my brother is in high school, i just wish everyone else had the same view as me. I hate to see my brother struggle over something that shouldn't be an issue. Especially when he feels he has to question his feelings for a Christian girl based on how she acts and what she wears. :cry:

Christian_lady
Mar 14th 2008, 03:42 PM
More than 100 years ago it was uncalled for a woman to show their calves and now it is WEIRD if a girl wears a long dress.

One of the reasons for this change is because it is assumed that the less inhibited a woman is (sexually), the more "free" she is.

I do agree that women need to feel safe and free with their sexuality BUT with their husbands!! ;)

It seems the Devil has taken a positive revolution and twisted it around to erase the 'safe' boundaries where and when this type of sexual freedom belongs.

Hence we have birth control, abortion, Sex in the City and teenage sex (just to name a few).

I have been reading the book of Esther lately and it's very interesting how she gained favor of the King. She (apparently) was a very beautiful girl but there is not a lot written about her jewelry or clothes.

It seems she had what Peter was describing: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%203:%203-5;&version=50;

LadyinWaiting
Mar 16th 2008, 01:18 PM
What's amazing is, in my classroom, the most beautiful girls I have aren't the ones who are wearing the short shorts and showing their cleavage (those girls the guys remarkably shy away from) but it's the ones who are somewhat opinionated (not afraid to share how they feel) in an eloquent, non-threatening way who are generally covered to the best of their ability (some of them really have no choice when it comes to some of their clothing as stores market to the s*x-crazed society. It's hard for ME to find shorts that are an appropriate length just to wear to the state parks with my husband!)

It's also usually those same quiet girls who end up making the most of high school because they're more interested in being social, not s*xual and making the guys who want to be around them find them (they're too busy with clubs, theater, chorus, sports and - yes - youth groups to be bothered with much of the teen culture). Those girls are few and far between, but they thankfully exist. I've seen more of them in the past two years...so maybe the culture is changing some!

(Plus, we keep the school, building frigid to avoid the spaghetti strap and halter stuff. Many of the girls wear them, but they put jackets on so they won't freeze in class! Smart, eh?)

cheech
Mar 16th 2008, 02:43 PM
1 Timothy 2:9-10
9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

This is understandable because when we dress like this, it draws more attention to the outside instead of the inside and who we are. We've seen in our society today what happens when men and women worry more about the outside of themselves than the inside...they struggle with eating disorders and low self esteem. They do everything they can to make their outer image look great but do nothing to their inner self. When my daughter was young, and we'd talk about strangers, I'd give her the example of the apple. You may see a beautiful shiny apple that looks wonderful on the outside but when you open it up, it may be ugly on the inside. On the other hand, you find an apple that has many flaws, dents and dings on the outside, but when you open it up it may be flawless and good on the inside so never judge people by their appearance because it's not what's on the outside that counts, but what's on the inside that matters and that is how God judges us...not by our appearance but by how we are on the inside:

1 Samuel 16:7
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

Galatians 2:6
As for those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance—those men added nothing to my message.

karenoka27
Mar 16th 2008, 03:31 PM
In my Sunday school class of teenagers, when I first started, the girls came in wearing low cut shirts, I would ask, "Oh did you wear that for Dan today?" ( a boy in the class..) they would say, "no"...I would then ask "Oh, so maybe you wore it for Katie's father?" and they would be shocked, "or perhaps for my nephew who is only11 years old?"
My point to them is what you show is a show for all!

They have changed the way they dressed for church...Praise the Lord.

graceforme
Mar 16th 2008, 05:48 PM
In my Sunday school class of teenagers, when I first started, the girls came in wearing low cut shirts, I would ask, "Oh did you wear that for Dan today?" ( a boy in the class..) they would say, "no"...I would then ask "Oh, so maybe you wore it for Katie's father?" and they would be shocked, "or perhaps for my nephew who is only11 years old?"
My point to them is what you show is a show for all!

They have changed the way they dressed for church...Praise the Lord.


We had a 14-yr. old girl in our church who was very well-endowed. She wore very revealing tank tops. When she would bend over, you could see clear to her waist. One of the boys in the church made a comment to his dad that he was embarrassed by her. Isn't that something? Our pastor's wife took the girl aside and in a very loving way, explained to her what was happening. The girl and her mother were very defensive, got angry, and the entire family left the church. What a shame that the girl was given the approval of her family to flaunt herself in this manner.

I like your idea. I'm glad I have the younger kids to teach. Things like this aren't a problem yet, and I have the chance to teach them how to be modest before they reach teen years. I can only pray that the teaching "lasts" that long.

God Bless.

h2jo
Mar 16th 2008, 11:56 PM
Thankfully in Australia for the last couple of years the fashion has been clothes that cover all the areas on your body. There is no pressure to wear a midriff top (its considered skanky) and long dresses are in :pp

I completly agree that girls are wearing awful clothes to church, but I'm just saying I'm so thankful there is an alternative! I was with a girl yesterday who is doing bible school this year and she had a short short skirt on and I could see right down her bum crack :o it doesn't even look 'sexy'.. I wonder how all her class mates go looking down her butt hole and how her teachers deal with it.

I was just reading about Jessica Alba on Wikapedia last week and found this..

Alba was raised Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic) and still considers herself "spiritual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality)".[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba#_note-religion07) In her adolescence, she became a born-again (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again) Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity),[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba#_note-19) but left the church after four years because she felt she was being judged for her appearance, explaining:
“Older men would hit on me, and my youth pastor said it was because I was wearing provocative clothing, when I wasn't. It just made me feel like if I was in any way desirable to the opposite sex that it was my fault, and it made me ashamed of my body and being a woman.”
Alba also had objections to the church's condemnations of premarital sex and homosexuality, and the lack of strong female role models in the Bible, explaining:
“I thought it was a nice guide, but it certainly wasn't how I was going to live my life.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba#_note-Elle2006)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba

I was pretty shocked reading it!

I guess what shocked me most was her saying there wasn't many strong female roll modles in the bible.. hello.. has she read Esther, Mary, Ruth & Naomi?

graceforme
Mar 17th 2008, 12:05 AM
Thankfully in Australia for the last couple of years the fashion has been clothes that cover all the areas on your body. There is no pressure to wear a midriff top (its considered skanky) and long dresses are in :pp

I completly agree that girls are wearing awful clothes to church, but I'm just saying I'm so thankful there is an alternative! I was with a girl yesterday who is doing bible school this year and she had a short short skirt on and I could see right down her bum crack :o it doesn't even look 'sexy'.. I wonder how all her class mates go looking down her butt hole and how her teachers deal with it.

I was just reading about Jessica Alba on Wikapedia last week and found this..

Alba was raised Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic) and still considers herself "spiritual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality)".[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba#_note-religion07) In her adolescence, she became a born-again (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_again) Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity),[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba#_note-19) but left the church after four years because she felt she was being judged for her appearance, explaining:
“Older men would hit on me, and my youth pastor said it was because I was wearing provocative clothing, when I wasn't. It just made me feel like if I was in any way desirable to the opposite sex that it was my fault, and it made me ashamed of my body and being a woman.”
Alba also had objections to the church's condemnations of premarital sex and homosexuality, and the lack of strong female role models in the Bible, explaining:
“I thought it was a nice guide, but it certainly wasn't how I was going to live my life.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba#_note-Elle2006)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_alba

I was pretty shocked reading it!

I guess what shocked me most was her saying there wasn't many strong female roll modles in the bible.. hello.. has she read Esther, Mary, Ruth & Naomi?


Your story reminds me of a shopping trip I took to the local mall a while back. I was sitting at the food court, having a snack, when I noticed two teenage girls walking through the mall. One was dressed very conservatively - slacks and a sweater. The other one was wearing a skimpy little tank top with her bra showing at the top, and a little denim skirt that was so short that her undies were hanging out the bottom. Now, she was really "strutting her stuff" through that mall. There were quite a few groups of teenage boys in the mall also. I started watching them to see what their reaction was to her. I was amazed to see that the majority of them were making fun of her, not admiring her. They were snickering, pointing, and making uncomplimentary remarks about her as she walked by. I don't know how she could have not heard them, but it didn't seem to bother her at all. Had I been her companion, I probably would have asked her to walk behind me so no one would know we were together.

There was a girl in my daughter's English class who wore a mini skirt so short the teacher would not permit her to sit down. She had to stand through the whole class. But she was allowed to go the whole day like that. Where was her mother?

I'm thankful that my daughter was always one to dress modestly. She just wasn't interested in all the skimpy stuff and never asked for anything like that.

h2jo
Mar 17th 2008, 12:28 AM
Your story reminds me of a shopping trip I took to the local mall a while back. I was sitting at the food court, having a snack, when I noticed two teenage girls walking through the mall. One was dressed very conservatively - slacks and a sweater. The other one was wearing a skimpy little tank top with her bra showing at the top, and a little denim skirt that was so short that her undies were hanging out the bottom. Now, she was really "strutting her stuff" through that mall. There were quite a few groups of teenage boys in the mall also. I started watching them to see what their reaction was to her. I was amazed to see that the majority of them were making fun of her, not admiring her. They were snickering, pointing, and making uncomplimentary remarks about her as she walked by. I don't know how she could have not heard them, but it didn't seem to bother her at all. Had I been her companion, I probably would have asked her to walk behind me so no one would know we were together.

Yep I've actually noticed the same thing..! My friend went out to a club one night and she just wore jeans, t'shirt and thongs (that you wear on your feet, not g-strings) and that many guys went up to talk to her and asked for her number.. but there were all these other girls standing around dressed up to the nines with everything hanging out and they didn't even recognise them. I think even NON christian men appreciate a girl who doesn't walk around like a show off.

LadyinWaiting
Mar 17th 2008, 12:34 AM
Well, most people, Alba included, don't like it when they're told they're doing something wrong...we call it conviction, they call it condemnation.

While I'm all for including people of all walks and positions (ie. "What This World Needs" - - - "What this world needs is for people to care more about the inside than the outside...God's gotta change her heart before he changes her shirt...") I think it's inexcusable for young women who are Christians and especially those from Christian homes to parade themselves around as objects to be lusted after claiming that it's not their fault if the guys look and lust.

When an unchurched girl comes in, I don't care how she's dressed - as long as she's getting the gospel. She'll be transformed from the inside out if loved on and cared for as the church should.

It's those who know better who should really be focused on in church settings.

My church's youth camp has actual clothing standards, and if they cannot meet them, we bring clothing to give them that is acceptable rather than just telling them they cannot come. They don't want to run the risk of those girls leaving and never returning because they felt condemned before accepted. Condemnation is bad...conviction from your heart changing may be uncomfortable, but it is good overall.

We really cannot blame those who are not Christians for not behaving like Christians. They don't understand, they don't have the convictions. Those need to have people reach past their appearances and into their hearts to lead them to the savior who cares about their beautiful, torn souls rather than be told to go home unless they can dress our way when they see nothing wrong with their way yet.

h2jo
Mar 17th 2008, 12:46 AM
I agree LIW, thats what I figured about Alba.. if she had really been changed by the inside out then she would see it as a conviction and want to be more pleasing to the Lord, not herself.

It says in the bible (I have no idea where :blush:) that we have the responisibitly to judge Christians, but its only God's job to judge non christians.

I liked that.. we call in conviction, they call in condemnation.

kayte
Mar 17th 2008, 12:50 AM
I agree and have noticed the same thing. It's something like when you buy something that was the 'floor model', you get a discount. Most people want what's been kept safely in the box.... not out on display for everyone to see and try out. ;)

My son is 21 and has been married for almost two years. Girls immodesty always really bugged him... a lot. The first thing that drew him to his wife was her more modest style of dressing. It's one of the first things he told me about her: "You'll like her mama! She dresses modestly!" I do like her and for far more than that. She actually spent time on her character instead of her 'looks'.

You know, teens running around dressed inappropriately is sad, but when grown women do it... it makes me really angry and I pity their husbands. The husbands are being disrespected and dishonored by foolish women.

Beloved by God
Mar 17th 2008, 02:37 AM
That just goes along with what I said in another thread earlier- The guys don't take the tramps home to mom. (they sleep with them then cast them aside)
I also like the idea of giving someone a shirt to wear over theirs, if their shirt is inappropriate. Changing thier heart comes first, then the clothes. But it is so sad that girls don't realize they are putting stumbling blocks before their brothers in Christ.

PrayerInMemphis
Mar 18th 2008, 07:33 PM
some of the comments in this thread seem very judgemental & a bit trivial.



When an unchurched girl comes in, I don't care how she's dressed - as long as she's getting the gospel.
:agree:

cnw
Mar 19th 2008, 02:43 AM
I notice although we all want the same thing...modesty... if I were a non believer or struggling with this issue (which I used to) I would find very little love in this thread. I thought of a story that I was involved with based on LIW's post.
LIW wrote

When an unchurched girl comes in, I don't care how she's dressed - as long as she's getting the gospel. She'll be transformed from the inside out if loved on and cared for as the church should.
It's those who know better who should really be focused on in church settings.
We really cannot blame those who are not Christians for not behaving like Christians. They don't understand, they don't have the convictions. Those need to have people reach past their appearances and into their hearts to lead them to the savior who cares about their beautiful, torn souls rather than be told to go home unless they can dress our way when they see nothing wrong with their way yet.
She may be getting the Gospel, but when we mix with the world we become more worldly...not the other way around. This is why the church wasn't developed for unbelievers. The church is for believers. We are supposed to go out and make desciples...not bring them in (although they are welcome to visit). A lady came to our church dressed in those 70's silk short shorts and a tank and stood in front of my dh and our 3 boys and ya know, there was no way they heard much of the sermon cause she was dancing to the music. When we bring the world into church, we end up with immodesty, and lust in our own pews. I mentioned something to her dh and he hung his head in total embarassment. He said he asked her to dress different and she wouldn't. Our wold promotes women to think they have to dress down to be wanted or needed...My new goal since last week is to make women feel more feminine and loved even when their husbands aren't doing that.

JenniferBerry
Mar 19th 2008, 03:00 PM
some of the comments in this thread seem very judgemental & a bit trivial.

:agree:

If there clothes show more cleavage than it covers then maybe we ought to be more judgmental. If you see as much thigh as you see of the lower leg maybe we ought to be more judgmental. If when our young people raise there hand you worship and you see more midriff than you do shirt maybe we ought to be more judgmental. Wouldn't you agree. :)

karenoka27
Mar 19th 2008, 03:07 PM
some of the comments in this thread seem very judgemental & a bit trivial.

:agree:
You know you are absolutely right....everyone is always tiptoeing around being judgmental. So what if her breasts are hanging out and she calls herself a Christian...so what if the husband of another woman is sitting next to her and can't keep his eyes off her chest...so what if this man goes home and fantasizes about this woman committing adultery with her in his heart...so what if a young boy just going through puberty and having just learned about sex sees this woman who we don't dare judge and goes home and looks up breasts on the computer because he wants to know what was left that he didn't see...leading him down a path to pornography..so what...let the woman show her breasts if she wants too...after all God looks at the heart right?

Well what about the hearts of those who have been exposed to her shamefulness....so sad.

RobbieP
Mar 19th 2008, 03:34 PM
Very difficult discussion. We are to show love and caring to all those that come into our churches. At the same time it is so hard to 'allow' it since sin will infiltrate the church and folks will become numb to it.

I guess that's why we have God......to pray to when circumstances as these come up. I was recently in a church where a few good ladies did what they could at an individual level to convey the message(Titus 2:3 instructs us to do just that) ...and there have been changes.

A young pastor of mine dealt with this once because we had a lot of folks from the local gym that had no thoughts of clothing. Pastor finally gave a sermon on the right things to bring conviction but only after having the Lord lead him there. He also asked a few mature Christians to be sure to set the example. We loved those people and did not want to send them away but needed to keep the church according to the Word as well. Things were done appropriately according to God's lead.

It stresses me when young ladies are dressed inappropriately especially in front of my husband and son...but I try to pray and try to put it in perspective and help my family deal with it since I have no say over those young ladies. It is sometimes hard because I simply do not want my DH gawking at other women especially young kids...But that is my sin and issue, not theirs. I need to love them. Nor should I say anything that would drive them away from our Lord.

The only answer is the Lord and taking his lead in our circle of influence. If a church pastor allows it to get so out of hand that it is influencing the church as a whole, then pray the Pastor would be strong in the Lord. He also has guidelines in the Word and he is to be a shepherd to the flock the Lord has given him......allowing sin in a blatant manner, for a pastor, is the bigger issue. That is biblical.

I too noticed some 'claws' out in this discussion. Keep in mind that we are human and don't let our jealousy cause sin in our hearts. It's the world we live in and summer is coming...I always bolster myself for that time of year. Pray pray, that my heart stays in love with the whole situation. It's the world we live in, for now....but only a short time...AMEN!

RobbieP
Mar 19th 2008, 03:44 PM
You know you are absolutely right....everyone is always tiptoeing around being judgmental. So what if her breasts are hanging out and she calls herself a Christian...so what if the husband of another woman is sitting next to her and can't keep his eyes off her chest...so what if this man goes home and fantasizes about this woman committing adultery with her in his heart...so what if a young boy just going through puberty and having just learned about sex sees this woman who we don't dare judge and goes home and looks up breasts on the computer because he wants to know what was left that he didn't see...leading him down a path to pornography..so what...let the woman show her breasts if she wants too...after all God looks at the heart right?

Well what about the hearts of those who have been exposed to her shamefulness....so sad.

It is an awful situation and should not be considered trivial, oh too many sins in our churches today. That's why the bible needs to be preached with conviction, and the meat taught no matter how hard. Also , fellow Christians need to help our brothers when they stumble...I have no problem if my husband is 'gawking', to remind him gently that it is a sin. He should know it's a sin because he has learned it's a sin...from the word that was taught....
The only way sin will not run rampant is if each Christian does what they can in their sphere of influence, brothers helping brothers, sisters helping husbands, sunday school teachers teaching the word , and the pastor preaching against such things. If the church is in one accord and all see it as sin, then the Lord will lead and it will not occur. I suspect some of the issue is driven by the fact not all see it as sin and the churches are too liberal......

karenoka27
Mar 19th 2008, 06:04 PM
It is an awful situation and should not be considered trivial, oh too many sins in our churches today. That's why the bible needs to be preached with conviction, and the meat taught no matter how hard. Also , fellow Christians need to help our brothers when they stumble...I have no problem if my husband is 'gawking', to remind him gently that it is a sin. He should know it's a sin because he has learned it's a sin...from the word that was taught....
The only way sin will not run rampant is if each Christian does what they can in their sphere of influence, brothers helping brothers, sisters helping husbands, sunday school teachers teaching the word , and the pastor preaching against such things. If the church is in one accord and all see it as sin, then the Lord will lead and it will not occur. I suspect some of the issue is driven by the fact not all see it as sin and the churches are too liberal......
If a person is a Christian, then I will assume they have the conviction of the Holy Spirit in their heart.
No one had to teach me not to dress inappropriately to church or anywhere else. Every woman knows why she dresses the way she does. It is not out of ignorance.

PrayerInMemphis
Mar 19th 2008, 06:56 PM
You know you are absolutely right....everyone is always tiptoeing around being judgmental. So what if her breasts are hanging out and she calls herself a Christian...so what if the husband of another woman is sitting next to her and can't keep his eyes off her chest...so what if this man goes home and fantasizes about this woman committing adultery with her in his heart...so what if a young boy just going through puberty and having just learned about sex sees this woman who we don't dare judge and goes home and looks up breasts on the computer because he wants to know what was left that he didn't see...leading him down a path to pornography..so what...let the woman show her breasts if she wants too...after all God looks at the heart right?

Well what about the hearts of those who have been exposed to her shamefulness....so sad.


If there clothes show more cleavage than it covers then maybe we ought to be more judgmental. If you see as much thigh as you see of the lower leg maybe we ought to be more judgmental. If when our young people raise there hand you worship and you see more midriff than you do shirt maybe we ought to be more judgmental. Wouldn't you agree. :)

If the Lord has laid it on your hearts to judge & be more concerned with her midriff-baring top than her soul, then by all means, judge...I certainly won't call that into question. However, He's laid on it mine to refrain from judgement, pray for her & set the best example possible.

honestly, it's no wonder so many young women are turned off by modern churches.

karenoka27
Mar 19th 2008, 07:14 PM
ok...hold up everyone!

now...let's talk like grown-ups. If an unbeliever comes into a church, I don't think there is anyone who would walk up to them and say they are dressed inappropriately. Any real Christian would be concerned more about their soul then their breasts. honestly.

But maybe you haven't noticed the teens coming in who are being brought up in Christian families and dressing seductively..and I'm being told here that it's
up to the pastor to be teaching that it's inappropriate!:eek: Are the parents that naive that they don't see their daughters? Is a father that blind that he can't see how is daughter is walking out the door?

So let's decide here if we are discussing how Christians dress or women in general or women who come into the church that aren't saved, I think and hope that would make a difference in this conversation.

RobbieP
Mar 19th 2008, 07:16 PM
If a person is a Christian, then I will assume they have the conviction of the Holy Spirit in their heart.
No one had to teach me not to dress inappropriately to church or anywhere else. Every woman knows why she dresses the way she does. It is not out of ignorance.

I don't know, like you said in your earlier post the girls did not realize they were having the impact they did. Our walks all differ : There were times when I was in sin, however unintentionally(there have been those times when it was unintentioned;)) it was only because of a woman practicing Titus talked to me and that is how I was able to recognize it as sin. I never really had anything to 'show off' but there were other areas of my life where I honestly did not see it....Not obeying my husband as an example..

I use to be an outragious flirt. Not intentional but my personality was bubbly and I was always excited and happy. That use to get me in big trouble...I thought the men were the culprits...just cuz I'm friendly they think I like them! Then we studied a lesson in not being somebody's stumbling block...from there on I would only talk to the wife and was very careful to be reserved with the men.....But it was only after hearing some lessons...The Holy Spirit was working on me (by getting in trouble with it) but only after hearing a particular lesson did it drive it home.....maybe I was ditzy but I can tell you , I didn't realize I was the problem.

I had a situation once as well where I allowed a young woman to live with me because she was having some hard times. She, at one point , was dressing provacatively around the house and I found my husband walking around staring at the ceilings....(he was really trying) ...I talked to her about it and she stopped...did it in love ..told her I wasn't comfortable about it...Told her she was driving my husband bad thoughts...she was a Christian and stopped once she knew and to this day she is modest around me and my husband..

I just think sometimes people just don't think about things the right way....and the bible does call for us to talk to those who offend us....

Then of course there are those women who are ill-intentioned and are simply wrong...those are the ones that you tell your husband "one more glance and I break your arm"......:rofl:......only kidding....just don't know what can be done besides following the Word, talking to the person and praying about it...and to continue to love the foolish who are going the wrong way...And I know....it's so much easier said then done......take it from one who knows:rolleyes:

JenniferBerry
Mar 19th 2008, 07:19 PM
If the Lord has laid it on your hearts to judge & be more concerned with her midriff-baring top than her soul, then by all means, judge...I certainly won't call that into question. However, He's laid on it mine to refrain from judgement, pray for her & set the best example possible.

honestly, it's no wonder so many young women are turned off by modern churches.


If someone is laying something on your heart other than anything other than 1 Timothy 2:9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments;
Then I would say it isn't God laying it on your heart no matter what the young women think today.

karenoka27
Mar 19th 2008, 07:20 PM
We are talking about how women dress...not any other sin...and whether you are saved or not...a woman shows her breasts to be seen ..period.

There are times when a person knows when it is time to bow out of a conversation...and this is me in one of those times.

RobbieP
Mar 19th 2008, 07:31 PM
OOPS...while I was writing my long story these two other posts came out....Sorry!


I'm talking saved Christians going to church...

And I do think the Pastor should talk about 'stumbling blocks' and sin as far as causing others to sin. The example I used, Pastor didn't give a sermon on those folks wearing shorts to church ...he gave a sermon about the respect for Holy ground and being stumbling blocks...He preached the Word from a perspective that convicted hearts...theirs and others. They were all adults who had all recently been saved and hung our in crowds with very little clothes...One of them was a prostitue, I'm sure God was working on areas of her life right then and what she wore to church may not have been a priority ...I don't know why but I know other areas of her life had changed...
If the parents are not teaching the children because they don't see it as wrong...then who will teach them? If Pastor preached it, and other Christians held them accountable, the parents and kids would hear it...

I guess I'd be curious what suggestions we might have...I see a lot of opi nions on how wrong it is but does anybody have a suggestion what you do if there is a situation like this?

JenniferBerry
Mar 19th 2008, 07:32 PM
ok...hold up everyone!

now...let's talk like grown-ups. If an unbeliever comes into a church, I don't think there is anyone who would walk up to them and say they are dressed inappropriately. Any real Christian would be concerned more about their soul then their breasts. honestly.

But maybe you haven't noticed the teens coming in who are being brought up in Christian families and dressing seductively..and I'm being told here that it's
up to the pastor to be teaching that it's inappropriate!:eek: Are the parents that naive that they don't see their daughters? Is a father that blind that he can't see how is daughter is walking out the door?

So let's decide here if we are discussing how Christians dress or women in general or women who come into the church that aren't saved, I think and hope that would make a difference in this conversation.


Exactly right.

JenniferBerry
Mar 19th 2008, 07:42 PM
OOPS...while I was writing my long story these two other posts came out....Sorry!


I'm talking saved Christians going to church...

And I do think the Pastor should talk about 'stumbling blocks' and sin as far as causing others to sin. The example I used, Pastor didn't give a sermon on those folks wearing shorts to church ...he gave a sermon about the respect for Holy ground and being stumbling blocks...He preached the Word from a perspective that convicted hearts...theirs and others. They were all adults who had all recently been saved and hung our in crowds with very little clothes...One of them was a prostitue, I'm sure God was working on areas of her life right then and what she wore to church may not have been a priority ...I don't know why but I know other areas of her life had changed...
If the parents are not teaching the children because they don't see it as wrong...then who will teach them? If Pastor preached it, and other Christians held them accountable, the parents and kids would hear it...

I guess I'd be curious what suggestions we might have...I see a lot of opi nions on how wrong it is but does anybody have a suggestion what you do if there is a situation like this?


Lets use one of your examples here. You mentioned a prostitute who had recently been saved and was coming to church and had changes in her life. Obviously her dress wasn't one of those and if she is a new Christian thats understandable to a point. But what were those changes in her life? Was she still a prostitute or did she totally renounce that line of work once she became saved?

JenniferBerry
Mar 19th 2008, 07:51 PM
Here is something that ProjectPeter posted in his blog that I think is appropriate for this thread


Yes, I Am Going Here
I have walked into churches now days and I dare say that many men likely could use a cold shower. It is an amazing thing to walk into a place that advertises itself as the "House of God" and there is as much cleavage and thigh showing as you'll find at the local "pick-up bar." Even more shameful is the men ogling so hard that their eyes are bulging.

What has happened that women feel it proper to dress that way? Where is the modesty that Scripture demands? There was a time when a woman might dress this way six days a week but they had enough respect to cover it up come Sunday. Sure that was hypocritical but nonetheless it shows how the mindset has changed because they would never darken the doorstep of a church looking like this and yet today... they don't even blush.

Now look at the youth. Jeans so tight that no bump or curve is left hidden. Shirts matching in tautness with enough skin showing to leave very little to the testosterone charged male counterpart. If their mid drift isn't already showing then that will be solved as soon as they lift their hands above their head and most everything is seen from the sternum down to below the belly button. Why would anyone, parent, pastor, congregation, etc., be shocked to hear that yet another youth pastor failed in morality and had sex with one of the teenagers? Why not in fact be shocked that your scantily clad youngun is living like she looks as her belly becomes full of a baby at the age of 14 or God forbid... younger than that?

Sure we have young Christians that might not yet know better and for goodness sake... not like they have a lot of good examples. But I am not talking about the new Christian that still has bottle rings around their mouth. I am talking about the deacon's wives and children. I am talking about the elders wives and children. I am talking about the praise and worship singers and leaders. People that should know better but because of sorry leadership... that young Christian may never learn.

Clothe yourself in modesty and let your good deeds and godliness shine for people to see. I assure you that this is much more beautiful in the eyes of God than your cleavage.

Cover your children. If they holler and fuss then let them holler and fuss. When they are on their own and they have to make these kind of decisions themselves. But until then... don't be afraid to make it a rule. Don't provoke them by being a jerk. They don't have to wear turtlenecks and skirts dragging the floor but they can be modest and that has to be demanded.

I heard someone say this as a rule and I wished I could remember so as to give them credit. But it is a good rule and I'll share it. If you would be uncomfortable being touched in a certain spot by a male, then make sure that spot is covered in clothing.

Something I hear often is that it is hard now days to find modest clothing. It is a rare thing to find in a store now days. Well... I am sure it is because the church has dressed so much like the world that there isn't much a market left for modesty. But nonetheless... stay out of the Gap and stores such as that. If you have to it is not that hard to pick up sewing. Sure... folks will make fun of it no doubt... Sure that will be hard to deal with here in the nasty now and now. But the more someone rags you for righteousness... the greater your reward one day. Teach your kids this and learn this yourself.

Be a godly woman... they are needed more than ever now.

Men... get your eyes back in your head. You ogle and you're in sin as well.

RobbieP
Mar 19th 2008, 08:19 PM
She was no longer a prostitute and moved to get away from the people she was associated to. She worked part time at a strip club (show coordinator ) and took a job in a local mill to get away from that as well....

So I guess my question stands what should be done?

Project Peter is giving a sermon of sorts to those of us not dressing appropriately. This thread appears to be about not being happy about it....is there any appropriate answers to a situation as this? I honestly thought holding each other accountable and the Pastor preaching wasn't all that crazy..(as Project Pete is doing) .. in facts it may even be scriptual...People dressed like that are offending us in our churches....the Bible has guidelines for offense...

I don't know, I'm a let's fix it kind of guy..where's the solution if parents don't do it.......I'm very blessed right now, my church doesn't have that issue...The prettiest girl in the place pulls her shirt collar up to make sure she's modest and it's a turtleneck! (no, but practically) I'm very blessed right now...but as we know that could easily change...

PrayerInMemphis
Mar 19th 2008, 09:06 PM
If someone is laying something on your heart other than anything other than 1 Timothy 2:9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments;
Then I would say it isn't God laying it on your heart no matter what the young women think today.
my point seems to have been missed. it's not necessary to thump the bible at me(as I can assure you I could copy/paste half a dozen bible verses re: judgement of others but I'll refrain) or convince me that inappropriate dress is sinful. I've never dressed inappropriately myself, nor do I condone it in others.

my problem--as I stated earlier--is with the overly judgmental and critical attitudes towards these girls that have been displayed in this thread--when it's so obvious that these young girls are in need of just the opposite--the love and guidance that Christian women have to offer.

and I can assure you that the Lord makes very clear to me His intentions and expectations of me. I haven't questioned what the Lord lays on your heart; please offer me the same courtesy.

dee*
Mar 19th 2008, 09:50 PM
How about looking into some of the great online catalogs where you can order modest apparel and having them ready to suggest to girls/women when they seem open to the idea? When I've talked to women and girls about how they dress they often express dismay that they can't find clothing that's really stylish and modest--and frankly that IS true, at least to some degree. Now, I know as well as you do that they could just be saying that as an excuse, but we're told that love believes all things, so I suggest places where they CAN get nice, not terribly expensive, modest and stylish clothes.

Google 'modest girl's apparel' or some such, and do a little online shopping. I mean, you don't have to wear Tzniut Clothing (though let me say some of that is gorgeous!!!), but there is very nice stuff out there that's available. I've thought of having a nice big silky scarf, large enough to be a shawl, but pretty and soft and feminine, available in the prayer room at our church so that when someone comes in for prayer, if the Holy Spirit allows one of us women to talk to her about being inappropriately dressed and she's receptive, we could GIVE it to her! Wouldn't that be nice? If I were in her shoes, receiving a lovely scarf to cover up with could be a treat, not an insult. God's grace covers! God's women teach, and love, and provide. I can see that you all have big hearts and you care a lot about this subject--and we all know it's a problem. Perhaps this could be one fun solution.

The other possibility is to go to the mid-school or high-school girls and ask them to brainstorm solutions with you, maybe designing or buying things like scarves or shawls to be given away. I often find that when we more mature women go in and listen, talk, ask, and suggest things, with our minds and hearts full of agape love, it is truly amazing what God will do with it. That could be another opportunity to talk with them about modesty and what that actually looks like, as well.

I know one sister at our church who was in ministry with her husband. A woman came in repeatedly to serve who was dressed inappropriately and another of the women serving wth her complained to my friend's husband as the leader. He told his wife that she had to go and instruct this woman. She was very nervous, prayed a lot, and the Lord provided another sister who came forward to help her. She explained that she had been in the same situation and had a mature sister in Christ explain to her that she was stumbling men by her appearance, so she was uniquely suited to approach this woman in love, plus she had her own story to tell. It all worked out well for everyone in the end--thank God. Fact is, as others here have said, we're able to comfort with the comfort with which we have been comforted...right? God does provide the right person and time and way to do things, when you approach it with prayer.

So, those are my thoughts...

h2jo
Mar 19th 2008, 10:45 PM
I thought we were talking about women in the church who claimed to be saved.

If someone claimes to be saved by Jesus Christ then they should be represnting him in every aspect of thier lives. Do you think its a good representation when a woman says "I love Jesus" with her breasts hanging out her top and her skirt so short you can see her underwear? Do you not think that as Christian women we have a right to direct that woman in the proper way of dressing?

Yes if a non christian girl walked into a church with her breasts hanging out her top and a skirt so short you can see her underwear we would be more concerned with her salvation! At that time we all have a responsibilty as a church to take that girl under our wings and guide her if thats what she wants..

I have two friends who claim to follow and love Jesus, but they live together and sleep together.. what sort of message is this potraying to non believers? Do we not have a right to judge them and tell them this isn't right or biblical?

I have other friends who live and sleep together who aren't believers, but I have no right to judge them because they don't know any better.. only GOD has the right to judge them.

So no I don't think its judgemental to correct christian girls in the clothes they chose to wear. After all if someone hadn't been 'judgemental' to me then I would still be walking round with my breasts hanging out my top claiming iggnorance!

LadyinWaiting
Mar 20th 2008, 12:02 AM
One thing that I can say for "current styles" is that layering is coming back in with a vengence in my area. So, that's given more options since it's considered a normal "stlye" to have a long tank top underneath a buttoned or V-neck shirt (the girls can wear the "low" styles, but have the tank underneath keeping what should be hidden, hidden).

One thing that you could considering doing with those younger girls (teens) would be to ask the minister if you can crank down the temperature in the church one morning in the classrooms (or in the church). Before church begins, have some of the older women who are kind in spirit to offer the scantily clad girls some of those cute shrugs for those showing too much up top, and perhaps small blankets for those with things too short - - - you know, to keep them warm in the rooms. While doing it, comment on how much easier it would be if they would try using the shrug (and maybe getting their own) to accessorize while covering up so they can be both cute and modest. For those with length issues, remind the young ladies that if they are uncomfortable, people around them probably are as well, and explain the situation with what is being shown and how God may have created it, but He doesn't need to see it again.

Perhaps keeping it light and not coming across as demanding/condemning is the best way. It's nothing to joke about, treating yourself with respect isn't a joke; but many young girls think they can only get respect by being appealing. If they are mature young women, they'll begin to show signs of trying to become more modest.

Another idea, have your youth groups host a "fashion show" where some modest clothing is put on display in forms of play clothes, school, church, school dances, etc. This could be used as a youth fundraiser that could then be used to purchase clothing for those who don't have means to purchase decent clothing or for a youth trip of somethings. Side benefit for the young ladies who participate and attend are ideas of what is acceptable and how it can be fashionable.

It could even be something for mothers and daughters to do together (provides a forum to reach unchurched mothers and show them how their daughters should be dressed and provides an environment for the older women to teach the young women).

*Just an idea that popped into my head as I'm avoiding doing my work for tomorrow!

kayte
Mar 20th 2008, 12:21 AM
I thought we were talking about women in the church who claimed to be saved.
:agree:
We are talking exclusively about girls/women in the church that claim Christ as Lord. No one ever presented anything about those in the world, but it makes a good smoke screen to throw that in there when disagreeing. ;)

Dee, have you mentioned your idea to others in leadership (the scarves)? I'm wondering what kind of response you got. I was trying to put myself in the position of being the one that needed to be spoken to and how I would feel about it. Being 'me', I know that I would be very embarrassed (not that that's a bad thing!) As diggindeeper always says; "People have forgotten how to blush."

I do think indirect is best... if it works. If it doesn't, I really like how Karen handled it with 'her' girls. (Who are you dressed like that for? A boy, an old man, an eleven year old?) I also like the rule brought up about what parts of your body would you be okay with a man touching... all other area's should be covered up. That fact is, they may not be touching you with their hands, but some (stress some) are with their eyes and in their minds.

It always surprises me when women dress like an object and then are upset when they're treated like an object by some, and yet refuse to take any ownership of the problem.

When I first gave my life to the Lord, no one needed to tell me. I've always been relatively modest (except for one short span of time.) But regardless, I went through my closet and made the 'to wear in public' pile and the 'for home alone with my husband' pile. I still have those two separate wardrobes and I buy things specifically for one wardrobe or the other.

Maybe when new people come to church and it appears they're going to stay, along with the 'visitation', we should have a wardrobe crew go along to sort their clothing for them. :rofl::rofl::rofl: I am SO kidding!

Edit to add: Good idea's LiW! :)

h2jo
Mar 20th 2008, 01:22 AM
I was trying to put myself in the position of being the one that needed to be spoken to and how I would feel about it. Being 'me', I know that I would be very embarrassed (not that that's a bad thing!) As diggindeeper always says; "People have forgotten how to blush."

Oh someone told me and trust me.. I blushed :blushsad: it was actually my boyfriend (now husband) who had to tell me. He asked why I dressed the way I did and he said he didn't like it because it was causing him to stumble. He told me I should be doing everything in my power to help him not stumble.. I changed my wadrobe pretty quick smart. He asked me how I felt about showing my breasts of to the world and I was so embarressed. Even my mum said "Jo you should be careful with what you wear, because I can see right down those tops you wear"
That was enough for me! Yes I did claim ignorance, I had no idea the effect it was having on people, but I only needed to be told once and I changed. After that I started reading bible passages saying beauty comes from the inside not the outside and I finally got it.

Everyone is different and there are girls we have spoken to about the way they dress and they don't see anything wrong with it. There is one really sweet girl I know and she does have a great dress style, but for some reason she is always showing her breasts and way to much leg. A friend did have a talk to her and nothing changed and now the friend who talked to her makes excuses for her saying "she just has an amazing body and when she wears tops, they just fall like that" :rolleyes: hmm
There really are some girls who just have no conviction about the way they dress.

RobbieP
Mar 20th 2008, 01:23 AM
When I read through the thread I think we are all agreeing. Karen practiced what it says in Titus....I was trying to say that we should feel free to talk to them in love...or the Pastor as leader shoulder be helping in his capacity(sorry, I still think if it's obviously an issue th Church leaders should deal with it as well.....

I think Prayerin Memphis was talking about a critical approach being wrong when they need instruction....which I think we all agree.

And we all definitely agree we don't like it...

The indirect approach mentioned is not biblical....the bible in Matthew 18:15 says to GO to th one that offends you and talk to them privately...if somebody is distracting you in church because of the ogling or you are just uncomfortable you have every right to say something, with love....Now, if each and every one of us did what the bible said how long do you think it would take somebody to get the message....and if it is done in love...we have done what God said...It means explaining scripture and what it says about th eman sinning...and like Karen did with the girls. But it takes us doing what He says...

I'm not kidding , I see so many issues today because people want everything to be nicey nice ...don't say anything but it just rumbles and comes out eventually in a bad way....God knows what He is talking babout....nip it in the bud...

LadyinWaiting
Mar 20th 2008, 02:08 AM
There's a difference between being "nicey nice" and being smart about how you address people. There are also numerous scriptural references about not inciting anger. When you know that the process of even in love is going to incite bitterness and anger, you, as the more mature Christian, must pray about the way God wants you to address it.

There's nothing wrong with teaching someone lessons in a way that actually reaches them. It's not just about rebuking when something goes awry. It's about changing someone's way of doing something for life which implies instruction. There is nothing spoken against in Scripture about teaching values and life lessons in the way that best reaches them and makes them understand.

Jeanne D
Mar 20th 2008, 03:47 AM
If we truly care about one another, it is our responsibility to say something to the young women who are dressing inappropriately in church, or even elsewhere.
It can be done in a loving and tactful manner. We would be helping these young women by correcting them, and perhaps sparing them from future trouble.

Jeanne:)

dee*
Mar 20th 2008, 04:26 AM
Dee, have you mentioned your idea to others in leadership (the scarves)? I'm wondering what kind of response you got. I was trying to put myself in the position of being the one that needed to be spoken to and how I would feel about it. Being 'me', I know that I would be very embarrassed (not that that's a bad thing!) As diggindeeper always says; "People have forgotten how to blush."


Kayte, I haven't yet but I'm in some good accountable relationships with younger women serving in the church now so this issue may become more of a front-burner deal sometime soon, since it's something they sometimes have to deal with. Because we're in the prayer room, we often are given a chance that's a little bit different than talking to the 'woman in the aisle'. (Ours is a large church, so we have quite a few people come into the prayer room.) Usually the women we talk to have come forward to repent, or to seek solutions to problems from a biblical perspective, so as 'prayer counselors' we can sometimes address issues that would otherwise be pretty sticky to talk about. I've had some gals get mighty embarrassed about various sin issues, but we're there to pray with and for them, and to give them the Word. It's often a mercy to speak the truth in love--that's really what they're looking for! We DO have to speak plainly but lovingly, I think, always backed by His Word. I hope I never cease to be amazed at the power of speaking the plain truth using God's Word!

Christian_lady
Mar 20th 2008, 12:23 PM
it's a tough call, I don't feel comfortable telling women I don't know very well what they are doing wrong with their own daughters (letting them dress inappropriately).

Maybe as I get older I will develop enough confidence.


CL

kayte
Mar 20th 2008, 03:44 PM
I guess I should define what I mean by 'indirect'. I mean this is something that should absolutely be talked about, taught by the pastor on a regular basis, just like so many other things. In the 25 years I've been a believer, I've been a part of four churches. One of them, it was purposely never discussed because the pastor didn't want to turn anyone away. One of them, it was never discussed because the church was very small and the women that attended were all modesty minded... for themselves and their daughters.
One of them, it was discussed often, as in every Sunday morning, but it was the pastor pointing out how much he liked this or that woman's outfit (the more immodest, the better.) He often made crude remarks about different women and encouraged them/us to dress sexy. :B
The church we're at now, I don't know how it's dealt with. (We've only been there since the beginning of winter.) This pastor strikes me very much as an honorable man and not afraid to say whatever needs to be said from the pulpit. I think it won't matter to him if some are offended or not.

So... indirectly - from the pulpit. It should be covered in the small group fellowships and women's bible studies. And yes, the direct approach also when needed, a woman should be taken aside and told what the bible says and why this is so important.

RobbieP
Mar 21st 2008, 01:22 AM
I totally agree. If the whole culture of the church from the pastor, all the way through the congregation, discourages sinful behavior, then , it kind of takes care of itself. We have too many churches as you described that are worried more about the numbers than what is right according to God's word...

And thank you for the clarification;)

Jesusislife
Mar 21st 2008, 02:13 AM
Wow this thread is heavy up in here! And I do Agree with P I M about not Judging someone about their outer appearance that flesh instead God does look at the heart. I mean that soul is more important. but there are christian ways to approach this.

Even with me, sometimes I feel convicted about what I'm wearing. "I'm I dressing like the world," if someone see me would they think I'm a christian. Which my son tells me I dress to old. lol! but I can't go out with my top all opened I have to find a pin or something to pin it up but sometimes I feel like my jeans maybe to tight. And it seems a lot of tops in the stores now are opened in the front and low cut. But folks have to make their own call on what is inappropriate, well for christian and that is when that conviction come in at, and in some cases like someone mention on here the pastor may bring it up in a sermon now that I think about it my Pastor brought it up years ago about temping others. If I remember what he said I will post it.

h2jo
Mar 27th 2008, 03:08 AM
I was having a conversation with my mum, sister and sister in law on the weekend about the things that turned us off about men before we were married.. my mum was saying she couldn't stand stumpy fingers, I was saying I couldn't stand huge feet, my sister in law was saying she didn't like some bone :lol: and so on and so forth. The whole time my husband was sitting there and mum turned to him and said "What turned you off girls before you were married?".. me jumping the gun said "it has to be flabby bums, bit thighs, small breasts etc" and he said "nope, it always turned me off when a girl didn't dress modestly".

The room practically feel silent with the answer and all of us pondered it and we all concluded it was a great answer.. I just couldn't stop thinking about this thread.

miepie
Mar 27th 2008, 06:44 AM
My husband agrees with yours Jo..... :hug: Whenever he sees a girl like that, he feels sorry for her when he sees them in mini skirt as she didn't have enough money to buy more fabric for her clothes..... :lol:
I am dressing very modestly....... I am usually in pj's as I lay the whole day on the bed, but make sure that nothing shows there either...... and when we go outside I am dressed even more modest....... After having a exhusband who almost got excited everytime he saw a girl like that and after seeing him watch those "wonderful" movies with ladies without clothes a lot, I am almost panicking when I have to wear things likes shorts outside of the house....... one of the things the abuse of that marriage is still affecting me.......
But Charles likes me dressing modestly anyway, although he does believe that I look good in shorts and there is no reason why I shouldn't wear it outside of the house...... I tried it but felt really uncomfortable in it, so I don't do it anymore....... I rather wear a longer skirt or just long pants........ :) and a decent t-shirt........

Love you,
Mieke :kiss:

JenniferBerry
Mar 27th 2008, 10:25 AM
You know what you two said about what your husbands think about a woman who is dressed modestly has me thinking. If a man is "turned on" just because of what I am wearing what does that say about him. I don't know that I would want to marry a man like that because a man who thinks like that is no man at all in my book.

And look I know this topic hits a sore spot with women but look this is a HUGE problem in the church. And the reason it's a problem is because we have to many people saying don't judge women for the way they dress and I guess I have to ask, "why?" Do we wait until they get pregnant because there boyfriend just couldn't handle his hormones any more. We teach one thing but live another and it has to stop.

All these young girls hear when you say "Don't judge them for what they wear" is it's ok to dress how ever you want. And I know this because I was one of those girls not that many years ago. And knowing what I know now I wish someone had told me just what God thinks about the way we present ourselves.

Seeker of truth
Mar 27th 2008, 04:38 PM
I am appalled at how even grade school girls are dressing. I have seen a few that have pants so low cut the crack of their bottom was showing :( An adult shouldn't dress this way let alone grade school children.

I live very close to the grade school and often see these little girls with "belly shirts" and low cut pants. I don't understand why the school allows clothing like this :cry:

These poor girls have no idea what their clothing is saying about them to people :( I can't imagine why parents would let them out of the house like that (unless they aren't aware of it).

I've even see young teenage girls dress this way in Church. And it's not just the young girls, women are doing it too. I have no issue with a woman dressing stylish. They need to keep parts that are private covered up. They are called private parts for a reason.

RobbieP
Mar 27th 2008, 06:59 PM
This is a never ending thread!! And I have a feeling it'll be a never ending battle until we are in our glorious bodies on the golden streets!!

Amen....somehow I don't think it'll matter then....

Jennifer, just a point about the men. It is a battle men fight and that it is why the Lord talks about the women dressing modestly. Men are wired that way. Just as we are wired the way we are. If we love our brothers in Christ we should dress modestly so they can win their battle.

I guess we are appalled and can't change the worldly thinking of the parents today. If we have an influence over a young person we should use that opportunity to teach what the Lord wants..We never know when what we say will hit home....

There's no one answer...

h2jo
Mar 28th 2008, 04:07 AM
Hey even infants are wearing skimpy bikini's at the beach now and they are taught from a young age less is best.. its just the over se*ualized generation we live in now.

I believe that its both the males and females responsibility together.. equally. Just because we have different rolls, doesn't mean we have different responsibilities. I have a responsibility to my husband to dress modestly and he has a responsibility to me to keep his eyes in check. Different rolls, but equal in what we do.

RobbieP
Mar 30th 2008, 01:54 AM
Hey even infants are wearing skimpy bikini's at the beach now and they are taught from a young age less is best.. its just the over se*ualized generation we live in now.

I believe that its both the males and females responsibility together.. equally. Just because we have different rolls, doesn't mean we have different responsibilities. I have a responsibility to my husband to dress modestly and he has a responsibility to me to keep his eyes in check. Different rolls, but equal in what we do.
Totally agree....and what is tough is worrying about my role only......and letting God take care of my husband's role if it is unbecoming a Christian!:rolleyes:............I am really tryin gto ignore it...and prayin gfor the Lord to convict as needed....It's not easy!

kayte
Mar 30th 2008, 08:10 PM
For anyone interested here's a book you might find useful to use with your own daughters or with girls in your church. As the Lord leads....
Raising Maidens of Virtue: A Study of Feminine Loveliness for Mothers and Daughters - By: Stacy McDonald

Do you want your daughter to cherish her purity and honor God by the chaste and lovely way she presents herself? Raising Maidens of Virtue is an engaging tool for mothers to use in training daughters who are approaching womanhood to think biblically. Through stories, allegories, illustrations, and memory-making projects, Raising Maidens of Virtue covers topics such as guarding the tongue, idleness, sibling relationships, honoring parents, contentment, modesty, purity, cleanliness, and feminine biblical beauty. Illustrated with winsome watercolor vignettes by Johannah Bluedorn, mothers and daughters alike will be encouraged in the wonder and beauty of godly femininity.

Befaithful
Mar 31st 2008, 06:28 AM
sounds like a great book kayte. My best friend is going through that book with her daughter.

I wanted to agree with Robbies point I think if you have an opportunity you should tell a woman to dress more modest. In a polite way.

My mother n law caught me off guard in 1981. I was wearing shorts and she did not approve. She told me to change them that it was improper to wear them around her younger son. She of course was not a bit polite.:no: She was agitated. I had a very young son then but have raised 3 sons now and I understand so much better now then I did then. I did not realize until that point that it was improper. I had just moved from Tx to Mn and it was like being in a different country:rofl::agree:plus being a newlywed too.

But I respected her and dressed more modest after that. I will never forget her telling me that. It was like a wake up call. I think many women do not realize the damage it causes... Until they finally hear you. If you can reach 1 out of 5 you have a 20% success rate and you can also win her for Jesus possibly. If she hears you about the clothes it could be she would hear you when you tell her about Jesus too. The way she is dressing is a form of a cry. Lonely maybe she did not have a dad. Mine was rebellion from a tough childhood. No matter what the reason Jesus is the answer.

I know a very truthful line that would possibly wake them up. "They are too pretty to dress like that." I remember when I was young I had a very best friend that has gone home to be with the Lord now. Back then if I said a cuss word she would say your too pretty to talk like that. It got my attention it makes a person think. Because it is personalized. :hug:

h2jo
Apr 2nd 2008, 03:24 AM
For anyone interested here's a book you might find useful to use with your own daughters or with girls in your church. As the Lord leads....
Raising Maidens of Virtue: A Study of Feminine Loveliness for Mothers and Daughters - By: Stacy McDonald

I looked the book up and it looks incredible! $70 though :o quiet expenise!

I've been thinking of asking if we can split our bible study group into girls and guys for a term. Maybe we can study this book! $70 is worth it if a hand full of girls learn the principles of being a woman!

Befaithful
Apr 2nd 2008, 07:37 AM
I definitely agree with you:agree:

Instilling virtues could save them and others from a lifetime of pain.:hug:

kayte
Apr 2nd 2008, 06:23 PM
I looked the book up and it looks incredible! $70 though :o quiet expenise!

I've been thinking of asking if we can split our bible study group into girls and guys for a term. Maybe we can study this book! $70 is worth it if a hand full of girls learn the principles of being a woman!

Wow! Is that because of shipping to Australia? :o
I found the average price of $20, which is still high, but it's an illustrated hardback so not totally unreasonable. I think the lowest I found was $16.

h2jo
Apr 3rd 2008, 12:45 AM
What $20!! Gosh! I have to clear it with my bible study group.. which actually might be a harder task then said. They are all very 'routinal' if that makes sense. Get together, study a certain book, pray, go home. They never ask what would be good for the group, we just study books because thats how it is done. I spoke to another girl in the group and she said she would love to do a term with just the girls and there is another girl who just became a Christian and I am sure she can benifit from this book as well. Ok I think I'm just going through doubt that I might (very possibally) get shut down with the idea.

I would expect to pay $20 for a hardback book, maybe even $30.. I was just surprised when I saw a $70 price tag!

LadyinWaiting
Apr 3rd 2008, 02:13 PM
Perhaps you can see if a bookstore in your area can request it (the cost of shipping through a store may not be as bad...)

Anya
Apr 9th 2008, 03:16 AM
Thank you everyone for this fabulous post. Current clothing styles are probably my biggest irritant right now! I have been searching for 2 summers now for shorts with more than a 3 inch inseam. 3 inches - ridiculous! I have also learned to buy matching camis for most of my shirt because the necklines are just so low. The worst part is trying to dress my daughters! *Sigh* K thanks, vent off now ;p

JenniferBerry
Apr 9th 2008, 03:32 AM
Thank you everyone for this fabulous post. Current clothing styles are probably my biggest irritant right now! I have been searching for 2 summers now for shorts with more than a 3 inch inseam. 3 inches - ridiculous! I have also learned to buy matching camis for most of my shirt because the necklines are just so low. The worst part is trying to dress my daughters! *Sigh* K thanks, vent off now ;p
I know I have resorted to making my own clothes now because I can't find anything to wear. I am 4' 9" and finding anything for my hight is next to impossible anymore. Yeas ago I could get something from the junior section and it was decent and it fit...not any more.

Servent
Apr 14th 2008, 11:19 AM
I am so lost here…maybe its growing up without a father, I don’t know. But it seems to me like everyone is blaming women for this but maybe some guys just need to take responsibility for their lack of self control. Maybe they should stop blaming women for “tempting” them with seductive clothing. Maybe some guys get treated like little kids…but they cant help themselves. The world isn’t going to cater to them, if they get tempted by what a women is wearing- then they should stop looking at her. I don’t buy the whole, “but they can’t”. Because they can. I know I am going to hear that scripture about making a brother stumble…well blaming girls for their lack of self control makes me stumble.
Men in other cultures don’t have this problem… girls run around with no shirts on at all in some countries and the guys don’t even consider it sexual, its just normal to them. I am begining to think it is this constant enabling and excuse making that is the problem.

JenniferBerry
Apr 14th 2008, 11:34 AM
Hey servant,:) This is the womens forum so naturally we are talking about the womens responsibility and how we dress as opposed to sitting here talking about the short comings of some men. Let me ask you this... Do you think it's ok for women to wear reveling (sexy) clothing? And might I add that the "few tribes" that go around naked are very heathenistic in many ways and many practices. And then the other few places were folks go around naked because of sher poverty issues (there are some African places like that) the sexual crime rate of rape is absolutely through the roof as well many of them are very tribal and heathenistic people.

Befaithful
Apr 15th 2008, 10:05 PM
why are you offended? both parties are accountable. him (guys) not looking would not make the wrong apparel or the lack of apparel worn, right.

Jesus hears sees and knows everything. What would Jesus want you to do. He wants modesty to protect you not to punish you. The man of God that you may marry someday (if you marry) will want the same and may be praying for such a chaste pure wife even now...

Bless you:hug:

Servent
Apr 17th 2008, 04:20 AM
My fiancé had gone to the men’s bible study, he said that all they did was talk about the evils of women’s body’s and how they are always being tempted by it. Then the my pastors wife had something to the effect that men cannot control themselves and that is why it is our responsibility to dress modesty. I guess I was just irritated, like women are being blamed for their bodies and that’s just wrong to me. Like it says in Titus 1:15 “To the pure, all things are pure” .

kayte
Apr 17th 2008, 06:05 PM
I guess I just disagree with that line of thinking.
The bottom line on this is that God has told us to dress modestly. It doesn't matter what He tells men to do or not do. THIS is what He has told us and if we don't do it, then we are sinning against our Lord, in direct disobedience.

To ask 'why' is okay, I suppose. But it doesn't really matter if we ever settle the answer to that in ourselves. We either obey Him or we don't. We either walk in His righteousness or we choose sin. We dress modestly or we flaunt our 'right' in His face and walk in our own way. It's as simple as that.

I love a verse in Proverbs that says that 'a beautiful woman without discretion is like a gold ring in a pigs snout.' It just doesn't get any clearer than that... and it is absolutely true. Women that are beautiful and dress immodestly aren't 'enhancing' their beauty. They're destroying it. They're detracting from it. They are like pigs wearing a gold ring in their snouts.

On another note: Many women think they've won something if they draw the eyes of men to their bodies. What they haven't figured out is that it's the heart of a man a woman needs and desires. A woman who holds a mans heart, holds a precious thing and she gains everything. His heart, his mind and his eyes. And he needs and desires a wife that his heart can safely trust in. The woman that dresses immodestly will never be able to give him that.

Servent, women aren't being blamed for their bodies, but for the way they abuse them, by dressing immodestly.
As for Titus 1:15 “To the pure, all things are pure”, isn't license to dress immodestly. It can't fit into this verse without shredding the fact that God told us to dress modestly. See what I mean? :)

Servent
Apr 18th 2008, 05:39 AM
I have never thought of it along those lines before that - women aren't being blamed for their bodies, but for the way they abuse them. I will have to think on that.