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Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 03:20 PM
I never originally planned on asking Christians this question of mine, But after I asked a question in different thread I starting thinking that this was a really good site for people who have questions about Christianity. So I decided to ask a question for myself.


I really don't know very well the why I don't believe in Christianity. I have several Christian friends and I respect their religion very much, and I think to myself that IF a religion was to be real that would be it. I wasn't raised in any religion, but I have felt some sort of connection I guess with Christianity. And I ended up reading the Bible a lot, kinda hoping I would believe in, but I didn't. I found the whole thing rather too 'far fetched' to be real, it was too unrealistic to be real.

It really did seem like a children magic story formed or written for adults. But I still kinda felt something for it, so I often read it, I even attended a Christian Bible study. Sometimes a Christian would have a question about what the Bible said on a certain matter, and I would know the answer because that's how much I had read it. I got into a conversation about Christianity one time with an atheist, and he was saying about how he believes religion (more particularly Christianity) is all false and to my own surprise I felt kinda insulted that he had insulted Christianity like that, and I started to defend the Christian point of view to the best of my knowledge. And anyone else, were they listening to us, would have assumed that I was a Christian.

I'm not the kinda person who needs 'proof' for everything, I can believe in things without it. Like if someone told me something that was a little hard to believe, if they swore to me that it was real, I would believe them, even if I had no proof that it really happened.

But, I just don't know why I find it so impossible to actually believe in Jesus. I do a lot of pretending I believe sometimes, but inside there's like this voice that laughs at Christianity's ridiculous claims. Like I'll be talking to someone, and I'll say 'Jesus endured hours of extreme pain and suffering so you could be saved!' but inside I literally think 'yeah, right, who would actually do that?'

However, if I could push a button and automatically believe in Jesus without a doubt, I would. But with my own logic, I can't seem to be able to believe in Him. I so often wonder, what is it that Christians do that they are able to hold on to their faith so well?

When I'm in trouble, or something bad just happened, I find myself praying to God. And sometimes he gives me what I asked for, but I feel bad afterwards because 'why won't I return the bloody favor and believe in and just accept Him????'

I feel myself trying to believe, but I just can't. What do you guys do? or what did you do to be able to believe in the bizarre Christian faith?

---Bthings

aliveinchrist
Mar 15th 2008, 03:35 PM
I never originally planned on asking Christians this question of mine, But after I asked a question in different thread I starting thinking that this was a really good site for people who have questions about Christianity. So I decided to ask a question for myself.


I really don't know very well the why I don't believe in Christianity. I have several Christian friends and I respect their religion very much, and I think to myself that IF a religion was to be real that would be it. I wasn't raised in any religion, but I have felt some sort of connection I guess with Christianity. And I ended up reading the Bible a lot, kinda hoping I would believe in, but I didn't. I found the whole thing rather too 'far fetched' to be real, it was too unrealistic to be real.

It really did seem like a children magic story formed or written for adults. But I still kinda felt something for it, so I often read it, I even attended a Christian Bible study. Sometimes a Christians would have a question about what the Bible said on a certain matter, and I would know the answer because that's how much I had read it. I got into a conversation about Christianity one time with an atheist, and he was saying about how he believes religion (more particularly Christianity) is all false and to my own surprise I felt kinda insulted that he had insulted Christianity like that, and I started to defend the Christian point of view to the best of my knowledge. And anyone else, were they listening to us, would have assumed that I was a Christian.

I'm not the kinda person who needs 'proof' for everything, I can believe in things without it. Like if someone told me something that was a little hard to believe, if they swore to me that it was real, I would believe them, even if I had no proof that it really happened.

But, I just don't know why I find it so impossible to actually believe in Jesus. I do a lot of pretending I believe sometimes, but inside there's like this voice that laughs at Christianity's ridiculous claims. Like I'll be talking to someone, and I'll say 'Jesus endured hours of extreme pain and suffering so you could be saved!' but inside I literally think 'yeah, right, who would actually do that?'

However, if I could push a button and automatically believe in Jesus without a doubt, I would. But with my own logic, I can't seem to be able to believe in Him. I so often wonder, what is it that Christians do that they are able to hold on to their faith so well?

When I'm in trouble, or sometimes bad just happened, I find myself praying to God. And sometimes he gives me what I asked for, but I feel bad afterwards because why I won't return the bloody favor and believe in and just accept Him????

I feel myself trying to believe, but I just can't. What do you guys do? or what did you do to be able to believe in the bizarre Christian faith?

---Bthings

Hi! Looks like you're on the right track to believing in Jesus. :pp

It also sounds like God HAS proved Himself to you. It's just up to you now.

For me? It's hard to explain. I guess, it's just that my heart tells me it's right. I've felt Jesus before and that's what helps me to know He's real, and helps me believe.

Let me tell you a little story.

When I was about 13 or 14, I don't remember what it was, but I did something that I felt really horrible about. Both in rebellion against my dad, and a sin against Jesus.
Well, my dad and I talked about what I did, and I started crying. And I mean sobbing my eyes out. Dad decided that we needed to pray. So, me, my dad, and my brother, kneeled down by my dad's bed and dad started praying. i was still crying my eyes out, when dad started asking Jesus for forgiveness. All the sudden, i saw this bright golden glow in the midst of us AND on us, and at that point, I felt this TREMENDOUS warm feeling of peace and love come over me. I FELT Jesus saying I forgive you. I started crying all the harder, because I KNEW that was Jesus. I've never felt that kind of feeling before, or after, in anything else. It was just..........humbling. I mean, literally.

And that, for me, is how I believe in Jesus. Nothing else could of caused that overwhelming feeling of peace and love, especially after what I did. (It wasn't anything horrible, just something that was wrong, and I felt incredibly guilty)

I don't know if this helps you or not, but I felt like I should share it.

renthead188
Mar 15th 2008, 03:36 PM
I never originally planned on asking Christians this question of mine, But after I asked a question in different thread I starting thinking that this was a really good site for people who have questions about Christianity. So I decided to ask a question for myself.


I really don't know very well the why I don't believe in Christianity. I have several Christian friends and I respect their religion very much, and I think to myself that IF a religion was to be real that would be it. I wasn't raised in any religion, but I have felt some sort of connection I guess with Christianity. And I ended up reading the Bible a lot, kinda hoping I would believe in, but I didn't. I found the whole thing rather too 'far fetched' to be real, it was too unrealistic to be real.

It really did seem like a children magic story formed or written for adults. But I still kinda felt something for it, so I often read it, I even attended a Christian Bible study. Sometimes a Christian would have a question about what the Bible said on a certain matter, and I would know the answer because that's how much I had read it. I got into a conversation about Christianity one time with an atheist, and he was saying about how he believes religion (more particularly Christianity) is all false and to my own surprise I felt kinda insulted that he had insulted Christianity like that, and I started to defend the Christian point of view to the best of my knowledge. And anyone else, were they listening to us, would have assumed that I was a Christian.

I'm not the kinda person who needs 'proof' for everything, I can believe in things without it. Like if someone told me something that was a little hard to believe, if they swore to me that it was real, I would believe them, even if I had no proof that it really happened.

But, I just don't know why I find it so impossible to actually believe in Jesus. I do a lot of pretending I believe sometimes, but inside there's like this voice that laughs at Christianity's ridiculous claims. Like I'll be talking to someone, and I'll say 'Jesus endured hours of extreme pain and suffering so you could be saved!' but inside I literally think 'yeah, right, who would actually do that?'

However, if I could push a button and automatically believe in Jesus without a doubt, I would. But with my own logic, I can't seem to be able to believe in Him. I so often wonder, what is it that Christians do that they are able to hold on to their faith so well?

When I'm in trouble, or something bad just happened, I find myself praying to God. And sometimes he gives me what I asked for, but I feel bad afterwards because 'why won't I return the bloody favor and believe in and just accept Him????'

I feel myself trying to believe, but I just can't. What do you guys do? or what did you do to be able to believe in the bizarre Christian faith?

---Bthings

I remember being at that point. I could best describe it as... feeling that Christianity was COOL but not necessarily TRUTH. Ask God to strengthen your faith. That's a prayer that he usually responds to, Jesus prayed for Peter's faith when he was doubting. I was in this position and I prayed for faith, I was a Christian within two weeks.

Also, ask God to reveal Himself more fully to you. Invite Him into your life and ask Him to become a bigger part of you. Again, He will respond in kind.

...praying for you

Christopher

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 04:00 PM
I remember being at that point. I could best describe it as... feeling that Christianity was COOL but not necessarily TRUTH. Ask God to strengthen your faith. That's a prayer that he usually responds to, Jesus prayed for Peter's faith when he was doubting. I was in this position and I prayed for faith, I was a Christian within two weeks.

Also, ask God to reveal Himself more fully to you. Invite Him into your life and ask Him to become a bigger part of you. Again, He will respond in kind.

...praying for you

Christopher

I never really pray to God unless I feel I'm in trouble, fear, or in danger, or like I've just lost control of the situation and I need something higher and stronger than me to just grab onto and trust.
And it's during those times that I feel so close to believing in Him.

But as soon as I regain control, I go back to thinking light of Him, and seeing Him as not really real, and thinking that when He helped me it was just a coincidence. And I also feel bad because I know that's so arrogant of me, to only pray to God because I want something out of Him but if He wants something from me (to accept Him), I won't do it.


the thing is though, I have prayed to Him several times saying that if He's real to make me believe in Him. I have even said the very words asking Jesus to come into my life. maybe it's because I prayed it with so much doubt and disbelief, 'cause nothing ever can of it. I still don't believe. And even while I was praying it to Him, I kept hearing myself say in my head 'this is so ridiculous and it will never work.'


I also have this stomach churning feeling that God is going to stop helping me because I don't believe. But I need Him to help me with my phobias, but then I feel ashamed because I don't believe in Him afterwards.
But I really do want to believe in Him, but my mind just won't let me.

aliveinchrist
Mar 15th 2008, 04:03 PM
I never really pray to God unless I feel I'm in trouble, fear, or in danger, or like I've just lost control of the situation and I need something higher and stronger than me to just grab onto and trust.
And it's during those times that I feel so close to believing in Him.

But as soon as I regain control, I go back to thinking light of Him, and seeing Him as not really real, and thinking that when He helped me it was just a coincidence. And I also feel bad because I know that's so arrogant of me, to only pray to God because I want something out of Him but if He wants something from me (to accept Him), I won't do it.


the thing is though, I have prayed to Him several times saying that if He's real to make me believe in Him. maybe it's because I prayed it with so much doubt and disbelief, 'cause nothing ever can of it. I still don't believe. And even while I was praying it to Him, I kept hearing myself say in my head 'this is so ridiculous and it will never work.'


I also have this stomach churning feeling that God is going to stop helping me because I don't believe. But I need Him to help me with my phobias, but then I feel ashamed because I don't believe in Him afterwards.
But I really do want to believe in Him, but my mind just won't let me.

Hmmm.

God isn't going to make you believe in Him. That's a choice YOU have to make. But He has proven Himself real, because He's answered your prayers.

Let me ask you something: you believe that God is real. Do you believe that Satan is real?

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 04:07 PM
Yes. I believe either everything the Bible says is real or it's nothing. I would never believe in a different religion. It's Christianity I want to believe in.

So the answer really is: 'at times', at the times I believe God is real, are the times I believe everything else the Bible says is real.

aliveinchrist
Mar 15th 2008, 04:09 PM
Yes. I believe either everything the Bible says is real or it's nothing. I would never believe in a differnt religion. It's Christianity I want to believe in.

So the answer really is: 'at times', at the times I believe God is real, are the times I believe everything else the Bible says is real.

Hmmm. Okay. I'll work with that.

Okay. Now Satan is the master of deception. He will do anything to get a person to doubt Christianity, to reject it. And that included placing thoughts in a person's head, such as the one's you have.


do you think it's possible that he is placing these thoughts in your head, PRECISELY to keep you from accepting Jesus?

RoadWarrior
Mar 15th 2008, 04:10 PM
Every true Christian will have a story - a testimony - of their life before and their life after. There is often a pivotal event in our lives. Jesus used the term "born again". Some of us have struggled more, and needed a few "points" of being touched by God in order to fullly surrender to Him and let Him be Lord of our lives. As you are already observing, "Christians" are at many different places in their walk, their degree of surrendering their lives to God.

I think you have already experienced being touched by God, like the time you felt offended by an insult to Christianity. It is as if the Holy Spirit is already at work with you, and you are sensing His call and His presence. I saw in your other thread, that you mentioned being 16 years old. You are in a very formative time of your life, and it is the age of asking questions. You do well to seek truth, and I am confident that you will find it.

For myself, a really pivotal point in life came when I was 40 years of age. I knew about Jesus all my life, but like you, I had trouble believing that the Bible was really true. When I went through periods of questioning, no one had ever convinced me of it. Somehow I knew that God was true and real, but what I saw in others did not verify that truth, that reality. But at this point, I stopped looking at other people, and talked to God. I did have a couple of true Christians in my life during that time who were praying for me, and doing their best to explain to me, the answers to my questions.

Here is the one that helped me the most, as my big stumbling block was not believing the Bible was to be trusted. A very dear person began to show me scriptures, what the Bible had to say about itself. As I began to ponder these things, I asked the Holy Spirit to teach me, as is stated in 1 John. I began to realize that the Bible is to be understood spiritually, not naturally. You may already be familiar with these verses.

1. The purpose of the Scriptures: 2 Ti 3:15-17 ...the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. NKJV

2. The Power of the Scriptures: Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. NKJV

3. The hope of the Scriptures: Ro 15:4 For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope. NKJV

4. The Scriptures are discerned spiritually: 1 Co 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. NKJV

5. The teaching of the truths are by the power of the Holy Spirit:
1 Jn 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us eternal life.
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. NKJV

6. Truth is knowable, by abiding in the word: Jn 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." NKJV

May the Lord continue to lead you into wisdom and discernment.

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 04:15 PM
Hmmm. Okay. I'll work with that.

Okay. Now Satan is the master of deception. He will do anything to get a person to doubt Christianity, to reject it. And that included placing thoughts in a person's head, such as the one's you have.


do you think it's possible that he is placing these thoughts in your head, PRECISELY to keep you from accepting Jesus?

I don't know. The thoughts seem like my own. But they really are what's stopping me from believing.

So Satan can really put thoughts in my head like that? The bastard.

If it is Satan, who can stop Him? am I incablible of it?

RoadWarrior
Mar 15th 2008, 04:21 PM
I don't know. The thoughts seem like my own. But they really are what's stopping me from believing.

So Satan can really put thoughts in my head like that? The bastard.

If it is Satan, who can stop Him? am I incablible of it?

If two people are arguing, and you are the one to judge and decide the winner, how do you stop the argument?

You are the one who chooses. By that choice, you encourage the one and silence the other.

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 04:31 PM
So I should try not to let myself say in my head those things. But I should also get myself to not listen to them even if I do say them.

hah, thoughts inside the head are so hard to stop, and you can't just plug your ears and not listen to it.

Revinius
Mar 15th 2008, 04:34 PM
I don't know. The thoughts seem like my own. But they really are what's stopping me from believing.

So Satan can really put thoughts in my head like that? The bastard.

If it is Satan, who can stop Him? am I incablible of it?

We know that it is only by the power of Christ that someone like Satan can be overcome. Indeed our own sin is too much for us to bare let alone his meddling. I went all through school thinking that Jesus was real yet at the same time distant from me, from my problems. I prayed to him only when i needed something, only when i thought all other options were exhausted. I used him as a public convenience.

It wasnt until i hit rock bottom in my life and started challenging my old preconceptions that i experience the love of the people of God. I had been in Jail for doing stupid things that had seemed like good ideas at the time. The only people to ever accept me for who i was were Christians, even my own family still look at me with blemishes. Its that difference in how they lived their lives that shocked me into reassessing my own. On the way i bumped into God and he dragged me to him and gave me a bear hug. :rofl:

I would challenge you that if you want to know truth, if you want to know purpose then look for him. You will not be dissappointed with what you find. You have not experience anything until you have experienced the true nature of Him.

God Bless.

aliveinchrist
Mar 15th 2008, 04:36 PM
I don't know. The thoughts seem like my own. But they really are what's stopping me from believing.

So Satan can really put thoughts in my head like that? The bastard.

If it is Satan, who can stop Him? am I incablible of it?

They are going to seem like your own. That's why Satan is so deceptive. He's very subtle.

Yes he can put thoughts in your head.

You can stop Him, through Jesus. You are incapable of it on your own. Satan is not afraid of man by themselves. He is afraid of Jesus, so if you dwell in Jesus, he will be afraid of you, because you have Jesus in you.

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 05:06 PM
We know that it is only by the power of Christ that someone like Satan can be overcome. Indeed our own sin is too much for us to bare let alone his meddling. I went all through school thinking that Jesus was real yet at the same time distant from me, from my problems.
I prayed to him only when i needed something, only when i thought all other options were exhausted. I used him as a public convenience.

That's diffidently what I do too.


I feel like, maybe the reason why I don't believe in Jesus even though I have asked Him in life before, I think it could be because my motives are wrong. Like I just want God to do things for me.


I just suddenly got a question. God does a lot of stuff for us all the time, always answering someone's prayers, or saving someone from hell. All we should do is love Him and love others too. But don't you sorta feel a need to do something back or you can't accept what your given?

It's like if you have a rich relative who is always buying you presents, sometimes even if it's not a holiday. And you are too poor to be able to buy them anything, and even when you do it's nowhere near as nice as a gift as the ones they buy you. I would feel like I can't accept these gifts anymore. Even though the rich relative asked for nothing in return, I would feel a need to repay that person, and since I can't, I would actually start to want them to stop giving me things.

But really don't want God to stop doing things for me, but I really feel guilty everytime he does do something for me.



It wasn't until i hit rock bottom in my life and started challenging my old preconceptions that i experience the love of the people of God. I had been in Jail for doing stupid things that had seemed like good ideas at the time. The only people to ever accept me for who i was were Christians, even my own family still look at me with blemishes. Its that difference in how they lived their lives that shocked me into reassessing my own. On the way i bumped into God and he dragged me to him and gave me a bear hug. :rofl:

I would challenge you that if you want to know truth, if you want to know purpose then look for him. You will not be disappointed with what you find. You have not experience anything until you have experienced the true nature of Him.

What exactly do you mean by 'true nature' of Him?

aliveinchrist
Mar 15th 2008, 05:17 PM
by true nature of Him, I think Revinius means, His true, loving, generous self.

God DOES ask that you do something in return. I think He does anyways. He asks that you accept Him, and that you do His will. You live your life by His will. And that's a lot of times easier said then done.

you can't ask Jesus into your life only because you want Him to do things for you. You have to ask Him into your life AND your heart, so that you can have a relationship with Him.

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 05:33 PM
by true nature of Him, I think Revinius means, His true, loving, generous self.

God DOES ask that you do something in return. I think He does anyways. He asks that you accept Him, and that you do His will. You live your life by His will. And that's a lot of times easier said then done.

So God asks you to stop living your life for yourself, and instead live it for Him.
I just now realized that I have been wanting it the opposite. I've just wanted God to continuously do stuff for ME.



you can't ask Jesus into your life only because you want Him to do things for you. You have to ask Him into your life AND your heart, so that you can have a relationship with Him.

But I kinda feel like I only need God to do stuff for me, and that when I don't need something from Him I don't need Him.
Which I know is wrong and unfair, but I have a resistance in me to want to live MY life for someone else. selfishness. I know that's selfish of me.


Well, what made you guys want to live your lives according to God's will?

RoadWarrior
Mar 15th 2008, 05:34 PM
...
I just suddenly got a question. God does a lot of stuff for us all the time, always answering someone's prayers, or saving someone from hell. All we should do is love Him and love others too. But don't you sorta feel a need to do something back or you can't accept what your given?

It's like if you have a rich relative who is always buying you presents, sometimes even if it's not a holiday. And you are too poor to be able to buy them anything, and even when you do it's nowhere near as nice as a gift as the ones they buy you. I would feel like I can't accept these gifts anymore. Even though the rich relative asked for nothing in return, I would feel a need to repay that person, and since I can't, I would actually start to want them to stop giving me things.

But really don't want God to stop doing things for me, but I really feel guilty everytime he does do something for me.
...

What about your own parents, Bthings? They have been giving to you from the day you were born. What do they require from you in return?

And knowing how much they have loved you and cared for you, what do you want to do in response to that love and caring?

Frances
Mar 15th 2008, 05:48 PM
I feel myself trying to believe, but I just can't. What do you guys do? or what did you do to be able to believe in the bizarre Christian faith?

Biblical faith, my friend, is a determination to trust - inspite of any thoughts (from Satan) to the contrary. It does not suddenly hit you on the head. It is a choice you make - to submit your life to God, knowing that you are a Sinner in need of a Saviour, trusting Jesus death on the Cross to have paid your penalty for your Sin, and trusting Him to have risen from the dead to offer you Forgiveness and New Life with Him; and to fill you with His Holy Spirit.
After you have made that decision to live to please Him in all you do you will discover the Peace and Joy that only He can give - and you will believe . . .

Why do I want to live my life to please God? Because Jesus died on the Cross paying my penalty for my Sin to save me from having to pay that penalty myself - how could I not offer my life to Him? determined to live to please Him? (unfortunately, I am selfish enough to go my own way far too often, and suffer for it, but He is always willing to Forgive me and give me a fresh start)

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 05:57 PM
What about your own parents, Bthings? They have been giving to you from the day you were born. What do they require from you in return?

yeah, but that's their job, they have to give me what I need. So it's not the same. With my parents I feel like I deserve some of what I get from them.

And while my parents love me I think they deserve my love back. But also, they let me pretty much live own life and do things that I want to do (they didn't stop me from perusing Christianity even they're not religious), they don't ask me to live for them. However, after everything God's done for us, for me, He diffidently deserves my life 'cause I'd be dead or go to hell without Him.
It's like how God said we are a slave to our sin, but then He bought us, so now technically we're His slave.
But even though we get something good out of being His slave (heaven),

*sigh* I'm just being really selfish aren't I? I'm just wanting something without having to do anything hard in return.



And knowing how much they have loved you and cared for you, what do you want to do in response to that love and caring?

I would love them in return, I would even do nice things for them back. But I just wouldn't want to give them my life.

aliveinchrist
Mar 15th 2008, 06:50 PM
So God asks you to stop living your life for yourself, and instead live it for Him.
I just now realized that I have been wanting it the opposite. I've just wanted God to continuously do stuff for ME.

Yes. But He already do something HUGE for you. He allowed Jesus to die for you. Anything else, in my humble opinion, is trivial. Or, maybe not trivial, but pales in comparison.



But I kinda feel like I only need God to do stuff for me, and that when I don't need something from Him I don't need Him.
Which I know is wrong and unfair, but I have a resistance in me to want to live MY life for someone else. damn selfishness. I know that's selfish of me.


Well, what made you guys want to live your lives according to God's will?

Honestly, I am still having a hard time resisting what I want to do, to follow God. So I have no advice there for you. I'm still learning to do that myself. A constant battle.

You do still need Him. Everybody has an empty spot deep in their heart, that only God can fill.

Revinius
Mar 15th 2008, 06:52 PM
That's diffidently what I do too.


I feel like, maybe the reason why I don't believe in Jesus even though I have asked Him in life before, I think it could be because my motives are wrong. Like I just want God to do things for me.


I just suddenly got a question. God does a lot of stuff for us all the time, always answering someone's prayers, or saving someone from hell. All we should do is love Him and love others too. But don't you sorta feel a need to do something back or you can't accept what your given?

It's like if you have a rich relative who is always buying you presents, sometimes even if it's not a holiday. And you are too poor to be able to buy them anything, and even when you do it's nowhere near as nice as a gift as the ones they buy you. I would feel like I can't accept these gifts anymore. Even though the rich relative asked for nothing in return, I would feel a need to repay that person, and since I can't, I would actually start to want them to stop giving me things.

But really don't want God to stop doing things for me, but I really feel guilty everytime he does do something for me.



What exactly do you mean by 'true nature' of Him?

Its only in the last year or so that i have begun to accept what Christ did for me. I spent many many sleepless nights wondering why he did it. Wondering why he chose me, why he loved me so much he would do such a thing to himself. I couldnt bring myself to accept it in a sense as it was just too big, too mindblowing a concept that i always tried to steer away from it. Its only recently that i have started getting an insight into his nature. Its not simply 'knowing' something like you would know a location or an acquantance. Its knowing the inner being, the core a and enormity of what God is. We can only ever scratch the surface of what he is, but just as Moses could only handle but a glimpse of God's glory i caught a glimpse of what God truly is and it shook me to my soul.

Before, as a Christian for a few years, i had known some of God. He dominated alot of my life and i loved him as he loved me. He is our father and our Dad i looked on him as such in my own circle of life. I was dominated more within myself than with the affairs of men, to tell you the truth mankind frustrated me with its condition. Its not until God began to push me out of my comfort zone and challenge me in ways i have never imagined of myself that i am starting to see more of him, to know more of him. He is that perfectly loving Dad we always want him to be, but he is more than that. He is the reason for our very being. He is not a set of chemical constructs as some would claim but the foundation for all that is an ever will be. I can only love because he made love. I can only know truth because he is truth.

The rabbit hole extends further though. Before my faith was hampered by many things: anything my evil mind could justify, from dating people who didnt love Jesus, to looking at porn or even using Christ as an excuse for my own dark behavior. Basically you get to this crunch point where you begin to realise the enormity of who God is. Through this realisation he changes your heart from the inside out. You no longer desire the things you once did. You might continue to fight the hold they had on your life (addiction etc) but, whereas you were always losing that fight, Christ within you makes the battle winnable. Your heart changes, you desire him and he remakes you from within.

I am sorry if this doesnt make sense, some of the most amazing things to happen fall beyond the words of any language. My real point above all is that we, as Christians on this forum, want you to experience what we have done. We want you to experience who God is. When Christ came he told us to go out to all nations and show Him to them. Yes, to show you his message, but also to show you Him!

I consider it an irony and a sign of God that several years ago i would have been sitting here typing something that would have been profoundly anti-God as thats the person that i was then. Now, i am here proclaiming praise to the God that is my reason for living. So short a time, yet so big a change, something that i find eerily divine.

I feel i am ranting so i will stop now, its not wise to be up at close to 6am when i have to write a paper today.:o But i challenge you, find our God we talk of. There is substance to this thing that has transformed so many lives so drastically.

God Bless you mate. :hug:

aliveinchrist
Mar 15th 2008, 06:53 PM
yeah, but that's their job, they have to give me what I need. So it's not the same. With my parents I feel like I deserve some of what I get from them.

And while my parents love me I think they deserve my love back. But also, they let me pretty much live own life and do things that I want to do (they didn't stop me from perusing Christianity even they're not religious), they don't ask me to live for them. However, after everything God's done for us, for me, He diffidently deserves my life 'cause I'd be dead or go to hell without Him.
It's like how God said we are a slave to our sin, but then He bought us, so now technically we're His slave.
But even though we get something good out of being His slave (heaven),

*sigh* I'm just being really selfish aren't I? I'm just wanting something without having to do anything hard in return.



I would love them in return, I would even do nice things for them back. But I just wouldn't want to give them my life.

But God does deserve your love back, also. He loved us so much that He sent Jesus to die for our sins. Doesn't that warrant love and trust back?

God also does deserve your life back. He GAVE you your life. It's only fitting that you live it for Him. Same for me, and anybody else. God gave every one of us our life, therefore He deserves for us to live the life HE gave us, for Him. To HIS will. Because only in doing that, will we find true happiness and peace. Even if what He does ask us to do is hard.

Revinius
Mar 15th 2008, 07:09 PM
*sigh* I'm just being really selfish aren't I? I'm just wanting something without having to do anything hard in return.


I would love them in return, I would even do nice things for them back. But I just wouldn't want to give them my life.

You dont have to do anything to get into a relationship with God. You do things because you are in a relationship with God. Regardless of your motives for becoming a Christian, God works on you from the inside out and changes, grows and matures you making you more like Jesus.

I never thought i could die for anyone (except for some nihilistic fancy). Now? Because God is with me, inside me, i have no fear. Fear that is not fear of God is misplaced. For if my God is for me, then who can be against me?

Before, my life was dictated by my fear. Fear of anything from not having a good enough job/girlfriend to not having a 'secure future' (according to my parents its a mortgage). Such things can be good to have but when you zoom out and look at life from the scope of eternity....it looks pretty pathetic. I think it was C.S Lewis who said that: "Dont let your happiness rest on something you may lose."

My fear of not having those things governed me, they became a sort of idol for me because of that. When God comes in and gets rid of the fear and replaces it with Himself, the security of Him, then things like death arent the end. In fact they all start to look quite petty on the whole.

Bthings
Mar 15th 2008, 09:03 PM
You dont have to do anything to get into a relationship with God. You do things because you are in a relationship with God. Regardless of your motives for becoming a Christian, God works on you from the inside out and changes, grows and matures you making you more like Jesus.

well, you have to believe in Him right, believe that God is real and ask for Him. I have done that before, but by the next day I'm back to believing that He can't really be real.



I never thought i could die for anyone (except for some nihilistic fancy). Now? Because God is with me, inside me, i have no fear. Fear that is not fear of God is misplaced. For if my God is for me, then who can be against me?

we're supposed to fear God's wrath right? fear that He will get angry at us for sinning.



Before, my life was dictated by my fear. Fear of anything from not having a good enough job/girlfriend to not having a 'secure future' (according to my parents its a mortgage). Such things can be good to have but when you zoom out and look at life from the scope of eternity....it looks pretty pathetic. I think it was C.S Lewis who said that: "Dont let your happiness rest on something you may lose."

My fear of not having those things governed me, they became a sort of idol for me because of that. When God comes in and gets rid of the fear and replaces it with Himself, the security of Him, then things like death arent the end. In fact they all start to look quite petty on the whole.

yeah, fear basically runs my life right now, I have a few phobias and then my mind obsessive compulsess over those fears and makes it worse.
But, it's actually almost only during those times when I'm in intense fear or physical pain that I pray to God, because I can't do anything to stop it on my own.

But then, when I'm feeling fine and I feel like I'm in control again, I don't believe in God.


It's like the whole idea of an invincible God out there who sent his to be tortured and all the miracles which broke the laws of physics, it's really hard for me to believe all that. But then when I'm in extreme pain and there's absolutely nothing more I can do, it's then that pray to God.

?????? I wonder what's wrong with me.

Thade
Mar 15th 2008, 10:49 PM
You sound to me like you don't fully want to believe in God yet. Believing in God is a decition you have to make, a decition you have to want to make on your own. You sound like you don't want that yet. Maybe you should just wait some more, continue to read the Bible and go to church(if you weren't already going to church then you should start going), and hopefully some day you will see the true wonders of God and be ready to accept Him yourself, but you don't sound like you want to now at this point in your life, but maybe someday you will be ready and really will believe.

Bthings
Mar 16th 2008, 12:11 AM
^^^ That's not exactly true. I did say at the beginging that if I could push a button and automatically believe in Jesus without a doubt, that I would push it.
But since I don't have that button, I am having trouble being able to believe in God. it's kinda just too out there to believe in for me.

RoadWarrior
Mar 16th 2008, 01:34 AM
^^^ That's not exactly true. I did say at the beginging that if I could push a button and automatically believe in Jesus without a doubt, that I would push it.
But since I don't have that button, I am having trouble being able to believe in God. it's kinda just too out there to believe in for me.

Bthings, don't let anyone discourage you. You have the desire, and you are doing the right things. You are young, and God is speaking to you, He is answering your prayers. We can't always trust our feelings and our own thoughts, but each time that He has answered a prayer or you have felt His presence, it is a touch from Him that is building a foundation.

Keep on doing what you are doing - going to Bible studies, reading the Bible, and praying when you feel led to pray. Don't even worry about your motivation. God is God, and He will lead you to Himself when the time is right.

In the meantime, I am praying for you. :hug:

Bthings
Mar 16th 2008, 02:18 AM
^^^ Okay, I guess I will keep on doing what i am doing, and I'll maybe add more too, like I can go church. And I stopped going to the Bible study after a while I felt like it was pointless since I didn't believe, but I think I will start going back anyways.

And I know I'm young, but I just hope I don't die in a car crash tomorrow and end up in hell.

RoadWarrior
Mar 16th 2008, 02:48 AM
^^^ Okay, I guess I will keep on doing what i am doing, and I'll maybe add more too, like I can go church. And I stopped going to the Bible study after a while I felt like it was pointless since I didn't believe, but I think I will start going back anyways.

And I know I'm young, but I just hope I don't die in a car crash tomorrow and end up in hell.

You have told us that you already asked Jesus to be your savior, the best way that you knew how. Trust that He heard that prayer and will honor it. There is nothing pointless about seeking God. And going to church will be good also.

In your Bible, look for scriptures that talk about seeking God. There are promises, that if you seek Him with all your heart, He will be found by you. Also, whenever you read your Bible and study it, pray before you do. Ask Him to be your teacher.

You are young, but you are also very bright. You do not have to hang up your brains at the door of the church. You will meet many Christians who do not know scripture as well as you do, nor be able to comprehend the things that you will comprehend. That's OK. You do not have to compare yourself to others, nor do you have to please other Christians. Your goal is to know God, and to be known by Him.

You do not have to rush. God knows your heart. He also understands the battle between the heart and the brain. When you do turn to Him, He wants it to be sincere. So He wants you to be honest with Him in your prayer time, even now.

There is nothing wrong with telling God just what you have told us - that you want to believe but that there are thoughts in your mind that keep you from a full commitment. God is much more patient than we give Him credit for.

aliveinchrist
Mar 16th 2008, 03:34 AM
we're supposed to fear God's wrath right? fear that He will get angry at us for sinning.





No. Fear of God, in this case, means being in awe of His power, but mostly, His great love.

It doesn't mean be afraid of Him. He doesn't want us to be afraid of Him. He wants us to love Him and trust Him.

Tanya~
Mar 16th 2008, 04:19 AM
There was a guy in the Bible who really needed something from Jesus and he believed, but he also didn't believe. Kind of like you. Jesus told him that all things are possible to him who believes. The guy's response was to fall at the feet of the Lord and say, "Lord I believe, help my unbelief!"

Maybe you could make that your prayer as well.

Revinius
Mar 16th 2008, 06:54 AM
As i said, fear that is not fear of the lord (of his capacity for great power and wrath) is misplaced fear. By constantly shirking the lord you are showing that your fear is not in him, that you dont treat him seriously enough to maintain a relationship with him. I can recommend two books that helped me with my scepticism: Dont waste your life by John Piper, and the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

TEITZY
Mar 17th 2008, 01:49 AM
I feel like, maybe the reason why I don't believe in Jesus even though I have asked Him in life before, I think it could be because my motives are wrong. Like I just want God to do things for me.


This is the crux of the issue IMO. When Jesus first came to earth, mulitudes followewd Him, but most were only interested in what they could get from Jesus (eg. food, healing, freedom from Rome etc.). Jesus did all these things (miracles) to prove the authenticity of His character (ie. that He was God) and message. Problem was that most of the Jews ultimately rejected Christ because they hated His message or the Gospel of the Kingdom:

Mark 1:14-15 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”


When you come to the end of yourself and realise you are a sinner under God's judgment and there is nothing YOU can do about it, that's when Christ will come in and save you if you accept Him as THE one and only Saviour from sin. But until you have a change of heart about your spiritual condition (that is repent), you will never get what you need from God - forgiveness of sins.

Cheers
Leigh

DanDMan64
Mar 17th 2008, 08:11 PM
...But I kinda feel like I only need God to do stuff for me, and that when I don't need something from Him I don't need Him.
Which I know is wrong and unfair, but I have a resistance in me to want to live MY life for someone else. selfishness. I know that's selfish of me...
...Well, what made you guys want to live your lives according to God's will?Hello there Bthings, I've been following this thread very closely, and I think something it's being missed here that perhaps others haven't figured-out yet. You sound like a very bright young man and perhaps even "wise beyond your years" as some might say, but being so young perhaps your problem is, that you think you have God all figured-out already, and you know what He's like and how it is that you're supposed to behave and act and react to Him, and so far all who have responded have played along and tried to help you realize that based on their own experiences.

For me, I thinks it's wrong to try to put the cart before the horse, sort of speak, I think we need to start from the basic stuff and then move-up to the more difficult stuff, so let me ask you this and see where it takes us.

What have you heard about "The Gospel" do you know what it is and why it's important we (human beings) come to know what it means for us? :hmm:

daughter
Mar 17th 2008, 08:36 PM
I used to get very angry and hateful thoughts about Christians, and God, and never realised that it was the devil. It was only after I was saved that I realised what that voice was... and the whole "God's a fake and religion is phony" thing disappeared when I started laughing at the devil - and myself for having believed him. Seriously, I laughed so hard I had to hide my face in the pillow, or I'd have woken up my husband.

If you get a thought that you think is from the devil, just laugh at him. He hates it!

Bthings
Mar 17th 2008, 08:54 PM
^^^ Yikes! I wouldn't want to make the devil mad at me.


Hello there Bthings, I've been following this thread very closely, and I think something it's being missed here that perhaps others haven't figured-out yet. You sound like a very bright young man and perhaps even "wise beyond your years" as some might say, but being so young perhaps your problem is, that you think you have God all figured-out already, and you know what He's like and how it is that you're supposed to behave and act and react to Him, and so far all who have responded have played along and tried to help you realize that based on their own experiences.

For me, I thinks it's wrong to try to put the cart before the horse, sort of speak, I think we need to start from the basic stuff and then move-up to the more difficult stuff, so let me ask you this and see where it takes us.

What have you heard about "The Gospel" do you know what it is and why it's important we (human beings) come to know what it means for us? :hmm:


yeah, The Gospel is the good news about that Jesus was born and then that he died to save us from our sins.
I could go into greater detail about what happens in the gospels but my problem isn't what the Bible says about things, the problem I'm having is being able to believe the things that happen in the Bible and believe that God is real. it is kinda hard at least for me to believe that someone walked around on the earth and healed permanently damaged people and brought people back from the dead and did a lot of those miracles, is real??? it's just a little far-fetched don't you think

daughter
Mar 17th 2008, 08:59 PM
Hey Bthings, you know the devil is always mad at you, always hates you... it's not like laughing at him is going to make him hate you more! Honestly, I think your problem is spiritual, not intellectual, and you are being attacked by the devil. Once you know it's him, and not your mind, at least you can fight him.

My husband suddenly realised there was a devil when the devil put a thought in his mind that my husband wouldn't have entertained (and didn't) for one minute. After I became Christian he suddenly "thought" "I'll go live with my Mam..." Then he thought (for real this time) "Hang on... why? I love her! I don't want to leave my wife!"

It was at that point that he realised there was a devil, and it was at that point he could start to fight him.

You need to be careful and watch your thoughts.

And I know it's going to sound daft... but pray. Even if it's just the wall now... say something like, "look, if you're out there, let me know. Please? Because if you're out there, then I want to know you."

That's sort of what my husband prayed, and he got his answer.

DanDMan64
Mar 17th 2008, 10:02 PM
...yeah, The Gospel is the good news about that Jesus was born and then that he died to save us from our sins.
I could go into greater detail about what happens in the gospels but my problem isn't what the Bible says about things, the problem I'm having is being able to believe the things that happen in the Bible and believe that God is real. it is kinda hard at least for me to believe that someone walked around on the earth and healed permanently damaged people and brought people back from the dead and did a lot of those miracles, is real??? it's just a little far-fetched don't you thinkWell actually I don't think it's far-fetched at all, I believe Jesus can heal and does heal today because for one, I had a sickness that He healed me from physically, and I am aware of Him healing others with worst conditions that I had.

But even if that wasn't the case, I still believe He has the power to raise the dead even though I haven't seen Him do that yet. But in any event, going back to your answer, lets stick to the basics.

Since you gave me a double answer I'll brake it up into two further questions. You said
...The Gospel is the good news about that Jesus was born1st. What was so significant about a man named Jesus being born such good news, why is that part of the gospel relevant?.
...and then that he died to save us from our sins. 2nd. Why did this man "Jesus" have to die to save us from our sins? or rather what's so bad about our sins that this man "Jesus" had to die to save us from them, why is that "good news"? :confused

Bthings
Mar 17th 2008, 10:39 PM
What was so significant about a man named Jesus being born such good news, why is that part of the gospel relevant?.

well, He is God's son, and he is the one who is going to save us from our sins and from eternal separation from God.



Why did this man "Jesus" have to die to save us from our sins?

Because we are imperfect and only the sinless who are perfect can enter into heaven which is a perfect place.



or rather what's so bad about our sins that this man "Jesus" had to die to save us from them,

because, because we have sinned we now have to pay to price of sinning against God, and the punishment is death. But because Jesus loved us He offered to die for us.



why is that "good news"? :confused

Because now whoever accepts Jesus can have His gift, and they won't die but will be forever with God and Jesus in heaven.

th1bill
Mar 17th 2008, 10:49 PM
I never originally planned on asking Christians this question of mine, But after I asked a question in different thread I starting thinking that this was a really good site for people who have questions about Christianity. So I decided to ask a question for myself.


I really don't know very well the why I don't believe in Christianity. I have several Christian friends and I respect their religion very much, and I think to myself that IF a religion was to be real that would be it. I wasn't raised in any religion, but I have felt some sort of connection I guess with Christianity. And I ended up reading the Bible a lot, kinda hoping I would believe in, but I didn't. I found the whole thing rather too 'far fetched' to be real, it was too unrealistic to be real.

It really did seem like a children magic story formed or written for adults. But I still kinda felt something for it, so I often read it, I even attended a Christian Bible study. Sometimes a Christian would have a question about what the Bible said on a certain matter, and I would know the answer because that's how much I had read it. I got into a conversation about Christianity one time with an atheist, and he was saying about how he believes religion (more particularly Christianity) is all false and to my own surprise I felt kinda insulted that he had insulted Christianity like that, and I started to defend the Christian point of view to the best of my knowledge. And anyone else, were they listening to us, would have assumed that I was a Christian.

I'm not the kinda person who needs 'proof' for everything, I can believe in things without it. Like if someone told me something that was a little hard to believe, if they swore to me that it was real, I would believe them, even if I had no proof that it really happened.

But, I just don't know why I find it so impossible to actually believe in Jesus. I do a lot of pretending I believe sometimes, but inside there's like this voice that laughs at Christianity's ridiculous claims. Like I'll be talking to someone, and I'll say 'Jesus endured hours of extreme pain and suffering so you could be saved!' but inside I literally think 'yeah, right, who would actually do that?'

However, if I could push a button and automatically believe in Jesus without a doubt, I would. But with my own logic, I can't seem to be able to believe in Him. I so often wonder, what is it that Christians do that they are able to hold on to their faith so well?

When I'm in trouble, or something bad just happened, I find myself praying to God. And sometimes he gives me what I asked for, but I feel bad afterwards because 'why won't I return the bloody favor and believe in and just accept Him????'

I feel myself trying to believe, but I just can't. What do you guys do? or what did you do to be able to believe in the bizarre Christian faith?

---Bthings
.. I have not read the entire string so if you have resolved the issue just slap me and I'll go away. You have most everything you need to make a decision except the push to make it necessary so I would begin from where you are at this very moment.
.. You appear to have reached the point that there is a reason for all of this and you need to begin from right there. Over all there are two possible reasons for everything to exist, everything just, magically, sprung from nothing or a supreme being did something to cause it. If you can remain objective this is an easy decision to make. For well over a hundred years men have been very busy working to prove that science is wrong and that the world did defy all the basic laws of science and just spring out of nothing.
.. No, my marble bag does not have a hole in it! Ok, it is an absolute law that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The reaction in this case is visible and we view it every night as we peer into the sky. When we look up we see all of those suns, A.K.A. stars, that we have proven to have all those planets revolving around them. To believe the Big Bang Theory (BBT) we must toss proven science into the dumpster, never to be resurrected again because all this matter must be collected into one mass and as I understand it, condensed into one orb about the size of our Sun or a little larger.
.. At this point my mind already hurts from trying to make the planets fit into that ball, let alone all those stars. But then, this ball, that came as the result of no action what-so-ever and as I understand it, was confined in a space continuum, not much larger, all reacts, without cause, and begins an uncontrolled, never ceasing expansion. So, you see, basic science, tested and proven as it is, is a lie in order for all of this to be true.
.. The very first decision must be, is this logical? And then, is it possible that after thousands of years of discovery through research and experimentation, every discovery is a lie? In order for the BBT to be true all of our scientific kno3ledge has begun from the wrong point and is therefore, inherently incorrect.
.. Ok, so it's simple to toss that into the trash because it defies every law we have ever discovered. So the alternate has a very good chance of being true, how to prove it? You have been examining the scriptures and it is reasonable to assume that you have seen examples of where men have, in the past, tested and proven God. It is even possible that you have read the scripture in Psalms where God asks us to try Him. (At this point you are free to shoot me, I forgot the address in Psalms.) You might even believe that you have already completed this step but today, I'm going to ask you to get dead serious and test God.
.. You have already studied enough that you know that if you ask God for anything that is contrary to His Will that it just ain't gonna happen. So you need to find your perfect situation where something is absolutely contrary to the will of God and YOU ask God to correct the situation. It must be a thing that only He can do and it must not be contrary to His will. When God does it for you, expect to be heckled because you will be but at that point fall down on your knees, or go off into a dark closet, or fall on your face in the park and admit that you have sinned, ask God to become your Master and live the rest of your life talking to Him first.
.. God bless and I hope and I pray to see you when we get home. You'll know me, I'll be the bald headed old fossil hanging out at the Fiddler's Green with all those crazy horse soldiers. And rest assured that my prayer is for the best for you.
.. And always remember, we Calvary Soldiers never die, we just smell that way from living with our horses.

DanDMan64
Mar 17th 2008, 11:23 PM
All good answers, and I perceive you're beginning to see what I'm trying to do here, since you already split my two questions into four answers.

Now I'm not doing this to try to make a Bible study out of it, I'm just trying to get to the root cause of your unbelief, and your unwillingness to fully commit to God, so please humor me and let's keep going.


well, He is God's son, and he is the one who is going to save us from our sins and from eternal separation from God.So far so good, and I hope you do understand this is why He (Jesus) was able to do all the miracles that He did, so do you still think it's "far fetched" to believe that "The Son of God" could do miraculous acts since His Father was God Himself? that created all things, isn't creation a miracle? or are you going to tell me now you don't believe in God's power to create things?

Because we are imperfect and only the sinless who are perfect can enter into heaven which is a perfect place.Good answer, which begs another question; Is this "entering into heaven" a future event or something we can begin to enjoy now?

because, because we have sinned we now have to pay to price of sinning against God, and the punishment is death. But because Jesus loved us He offered to die for us.This is true too, but He didn't just offer, He actually went through with it, so when you say you accepted Jesus in your life, do you mean that you thanked Him for having paid for your sins "personally" and for having taken your punishment for your sins "personally" and for having personally suffered your "death"? This is what we call, "the sinner's prayer", have you prayed it?;)

Because now whoever accepts Jesus can have His gift, and they won't die but will be forever with God and Jesus in heaven.So have you done this, have you "personally" told Him that you accept His gift? and if so are you happy about the fact that you will be eternally with God and Jesus in heaven?

Now if God loves you so much that He did all this so you could end-up in heaven with Him, do you think He wants to wait until you get there to enjoy the pleasure of your company? or wouldn't you think He'd rather start enjoying that right now? Perhaps that's why He doesn't mind answering your prayers even if you're just using Him to get your way, but wouldn't it be a better way to show Him you care too, by spending more time with Him to get to know Him better?:hug:

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 12:59 AM
So far so good, and I hope you do understand this is why He (Jesus) was able to do all the miracles that He did, so do you still think it's "far fetched" to believe that "The Son of God" could do miraculous acts since His Father was God Himself? that created all things, isn't creation a miracle? or are you going to tell me now you don't believe in God's power to create things?

I was answering your questions according to what I thought the 'correct' answer was, not according to what I believed the answer was.

And so I think the correct answer to your question is that yes God CAN create anything, and so of course He can do miracles too. I also believe that if a God can create anything He wants out of nothing, then He can diffidently do miracles too.



Good answer, which begs another question; Is this "entering into heaven" a future event or something we can begin to enjoy now?

you enter 'heaven' itself when you die if you are saved. But you can have a relationship with God starting now.



This is true too, but He didn't just offer, He actually went through with it, so when you say you accepted Jesus in your life, do you mean that you thanked Him for having paid for your sins "personally" and for having taken your punishment for your sins "personally" and for having personally suffered your "death"? This is what we call, "the sinner's prayer", have you prayed it?

yes, I've heard of it, and I have prayed that before too. But I remember thinking the next day how silly I felt praying something like to God when I don't really know or believe if he's real at all.



So have you done this, have you "personally" told Him that you accept His gift? and if so are you happy about the fact that you will be eternally with God and Jesus in heaven?

well, no. Because I'm not really sure heaven is real, I'm not really sure any of it is real. I wonder why it's so hard to know for sure that God is real.



Now if God loves you so much that He did all this so you could end-up in heaven with Him, do you think He wants to wait until you get there to enjoy the pleasure of your company? or wouldn't you think He'd rather start enjoying that right now? Perhaps that's why He doesn't mind answering your prayers even if you're just using Him to get your way, but wouldn't it be a better way to show Him you care too, by spending more time with Him to get to know Him better?

hm, that's a really good way to put it:), it makes good sense like that too.

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 01:05 AM
.You might even believe that you have already completed this step but today, I'm going to ask you to get dead serious and test God.
.. You have already studied enough that you know that if you ask God for anything that is contrary to His Will that it just ain't gonna happen. So you need to find your perfect situation where something is absolutely contrary to the will of God and YOU ask God to correct the situation. It must be a thing that only He can do and it must not be contrary to His will. When God does it for you, expect to be heckled because you will be but at that point fall down on your knees, or go off into a dark closet, or fall on your face in the park and admit that you have sinned, ask God to become your Master and live the rest of your life talking to Him first.

so, how do I find my perfect situation?

th1bill
Mar 18th 2008, 01:29 AM
so, how do I find my perfect situation?
.. This can make very unpopular with you but for your salvation I'll risk saying it. You will be presented with possibly a series of events that you will be able to just sit still and watch the outcome or you will be able to call on God at the first opportunity and God will prove Himself to you by doing what no man could have done for you. I am not God and I cannot tell you what He will do but He will do it because He loves you and His perfect will is that none should perish but that all should repent and be saved. (1Tim. 2:4) Your only responsibility in this matter is to call on God and be willing to admit to yourself the truth.

markdrums
Mar 18th 2008, 01:36 AM
One thing I'll add is this; It sounds like you're having trouble understanding WHY we believe what we believe. That's a good, honest question.
My answer would be, I believe NOT on "blind faith", but rather, faith based on EVIDENCE.
There are some GREAT resources that give numerous examples of Biblical, historical credibility, and verify the claims of the Bible. A couple books in particular that are full of these examples are:
"I don't have enough faith to be an atheist", by Frank Turek
"A case for Christ" and "A case for a creator", by Lee Strobel.

ALL of these point out scientific evidence, historical evidence, eyewittness evidence... etc. (and not all of it comes from "Biblical sources"... some evidence comes from secular testimonies of people....."

:)

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 02:41 AM
^ but you know, I think blind faith can be okay actually. I mean you got to some strong hella guts and courage to be able to say you believe in this, and have lots of logic and evidence thrown at you but still stand strong in you faith, most non-religious call the stupidity, but somehow I think that's kinda admirable. It reminds me of a Bible verse whoch I can't remember the refrence to. "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen me and still believe."



But anyways, whatever type of faith it is, it doesn't and won't have 100% proof, which is why it's called faith, so what wonder isn't really the 'way', it's the 'how' (if that makes sense) How can some people be so strong in their faith, so sure there's a God up there? I asked someone that a long time ago and she said because of her change of heart when she became a Christian, she had a new heart with new desires, she wasn't the same person and God gives her the strength to continue the believe as strong as she does.

I wonder to myself why dont' I have a change of heart? I have prayed and asked for Jesus before, but at the same time I was, I was also highly doubting that this would work, because I don't believe in God like that. so I also wonder, How do people get enough faith to become Christians in the first place?

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 03:09 AM
.. This can make very unpopular with you but for your salvation I'll risk saying it. You will be presented with possibly a series of events that you will be able to just sit still and watch the outcome or you will be able to call on God at the first opportunity and God will prove Himself to you by doing what no man could have done for you. I am not God and I cannot tell you what He will do but He will do it because He loves you and His perfect will is that none should perish but that all should repent and be saved. (1Tim. 2:4) Your only responsibility in this matter is to call on God and be willing to admit to yourself the truth.

I want to tell you this,
As I already mentioned just a little, I don't know if you read, but I have a couple of phobias. well sometimes my mind will just obsess over these irrational fears I have until I can't think of anything else, and it's almost only when I'm in a time of uncontrollable fear like that that I start praying to God and begging Him to protect me.

those are the only times I pray to God and don't feel like an idiot the next day for it, because I can feel that it's comforting for me to pray Him at those times. But if I pray to Him when I'm not feeling fear then I do feel stupid for doing it, even while I'm doing, because for some reason I still don't believe in Him.

So basically I was wondering, when this moment comes(the one you're talking about) I worry that maybe it won't work or something for me, that the next day I'll just go back to the way I was thinking before.

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 03:13 AM
I was answering your questions according to what I thought the 'correct' answer was, not according to what I believed the answer was.And I get that, don't think for one moment you were fooling me, however I can tell The Holy Spirit has been working with you and showing you some "spiritual truths" which only someone who has been "born of The Spirit" can see clearly, but more on that later.


And so I think the correct answer to your question is that yes God CAN create anything, and so of course He can do miracles too. I also believe that if a God can create anything He wants out of nothing, then He can diffidently do miracles too. It makes sense doesn't it? here you are only 16 years old and you already can clearly "see" something that some spend their whole lives trying to escape from and disprove, the question is what can we do to get you to go from rationally understanding the concept of God, to believing in the reality of a living God?


...you enter 'heaven' itself when you die if you are saved. But you can have a relationship with God starting now.and thus you have answered the question above, when you can get to the point that you want to know God personally and "speak to Him" as you do when you call-out to Him asking Him for help, but actually talk to Him just to say, "Hello there God, I'm here and I believe you're real, can you please give me a hug? I don't really need anything right now but to let you know I thank you for my life and my salvation, and for helping me-out when I call to you." When you can take that step of "faith" to reach-out to Him, He'll respond by reaching-out to you breaching that barrier of "concept to reality".
...yes, I've heard of it, and I have prayed that before too. But I remember thinking the next day how silly I felt praying something like to God when I don't really know or believe if he's real at all. And the thing is, you think you thought this things, but as somebody else already mentioned before, what you heard was Satan, or one of his demons trying to convince you your prayer was silly, that speaking into thin air is not rational, that all us stupid Christians are a bunch of fools, this is what we "fools" call "spiritual warfare", Still what you prayed was heard if you prayed it with conviction by God, and regardless of whether you believe it or not, It started the ball rolling in the direction of you eventually getting to heaven, and hopefully your parents and many others as well, that's why the devils hate that prayer so much. But don't worry about making them mad, there's nothing they can do about it other than keep whispering lies in your ears, and hope that you'll be "dumb" enough to listen to them.

...well, no. Because I'm not really sure heaven is real, I'm not really sure any of it is real. I wonder why it's so hard to know for sure that God is real.That's because of that "spiritual warfare" I told you about, because Satan wants to keep you in darkness, but God's light is already beginning to shine in your path, and The Holy Spirit is speaking to you through us and your Bible Study friends and and the Bible itself, and I wish I could say it will be over soon, but this battle goes on for all of us until we reach perfection, when our spirituality will become perfect.

...hm, that's a really good way to put it:), it makes good sense like that too.You see, this is the thing that you need to understand. Adam and Eve had fellowship with God, but the devil deceived them and made them sin, so God became a man so the children of Adam and Eve, you and I, could have that Fellowship with Him restored again, and that can start for you right there where you are and right away, and eventually we will get to see Him again in a new Paradise that will be better than the first, and that in a nutshell is the message of The Bible.;)

However I have to be honest with you, you're right in expecting that God wants something in return, but this is not an "aha!" moment, where you would say "I knew it, I knew it was too good to be true!" This is actually the best part of all. Would you like me to go on?:hmm:

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 03:27 AM
And I get that, don't think for one moment you were fooling me, however I can tell The Holy Spirit has been working with you and showing you some "spiritual truths" which only someone who has been "born of The Spirit" can see clearly, but more on that later.

really, you think so?



It makes sense doesn't it? here you are only 16 years old and you already can clearly "see" something that some spend their whole lives trying to escape from and disprove, the question is what can we do to get you to go from rationally understanding the concept of God, to believing in the reality of a living God?

I'd like to know the answer too, lol.



and thus you have answered the question above, when you can get to the point that you want to know God personally and "speak to Him" as you do when you call-out to Him asking Him for help, but actually talk to Him just to say, "Hello there God, I'm here and I believe you're real, can you please give me a hug? I don't really need anything right now but to let you know I thank you for my life and my salvation, and for helping me-out when I call to you." When you can take that step of "faith" to reach-out to Him, He'll respond by reaching-out to you breaching that barrier of "concept to reality".

"Hello there God, I'm here and I believe you're real, can you please give me a hug? I don't really need anything right now but to let you know I thank you for my life and my salvation, and for helping me-out when I call to you."

Lol, I would diffidently feel silly to pray that.

But I have prayed to God asking Him to show me in some way that He's real, and/or to change my heart so I can know my heart that He's real. But nothing happens instantly, so idk maybe that's why I feel silly, I feel like it didn't work.



And the thing is, you think you thought this things, but as somebody else already mentioned before, what you heard was Satan, or one of his demons trying to convince you your prayer was silly, that speaking into thin air is not rational, that all us stupid Christians are a bunch of fools, this is what we "fools" call "spiritual warfare", Still what you prayed was heard if you prayed it with conviction by God, and regardless of whether you believe it or not, It started the ball rolling in the direction of you eventually getting to heaven, and hopefully your parents and many others as well, that's why the devils hate that prayer so much. But don't worry about making them mad, there's nothing they can do about it other than keep whispering lies in your ears, and hope that you'll be "dumb" enough to listen to them.

hah, arg, but how do I stop thinking the way I do, it's hard to stop ones own thoughts.



However I have to be honest with you, you're right in expecting that God wants something in return, but this is not an "aha!" moment, where you would say "I knew it, I knew it was too good to be true!" This is actually the best part of all. Would you like me to go on?:hmm:
LOl, of course! don't keep me in suspense:P

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 04:33 AM
^ LOl, of course! don't keep me in suspense:PWell this is very important, so I'm going to tell you what it says straight from the Scripture.

"Luke 9:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=9&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23)"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."

Remember that "selfish" part of you we discussed earlier, God needs you to be willing to surrender that to Him, in essence everything that is you has to die, He took your place and died for you so you could have eternal life, and you must be willing to do the same, die to your self.

I know that sounds harsh, but it's actually not as bad as it sounds, dying to oneself is the best way to allow the love of God fill your soul so that He will remain in you always and drive all that you fear away, and it's not an immediate process, He only wants you to meet every day of your life with the determination to become more like Him and less like you.

Taking-up your cross is allowing Him to take over your life, letting Him take over the throne of your heart and letting Him truly become your Lord, your Master, your Teacher, and as He does He'll reveal Himself to you as your Father, your best friend, your doctor, what ever you need Him to become He'll be for you, that's the purpose of having the relationship.

I tell you this in love because if you truly want to know the living God and want Him to become real for you, "You must be born again!." :saint:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=47&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=17) "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

renthead188
Mar 18th 2008, 05:31 AM
Hello Bthings

I replied early in the thread, but this thread has developed very quickly and it seems that others have been provided to help with some of your concerns. I would, however, like to comment.

I agree with DanD in that The Spirit is definetely working in your life. You are (A) seeking the truth and (B)you want to be sure of it when you find it. God wants (A) you to know the truth and (B) for you to be sure of it when you find it.

I will pray for you, Bthings, that The Lord may strengthen your faith and become your solid foundation.

Christopher

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 02:42 PM
Well this is very important, so I'm going to tell you what it says straight from the Scripture.

"Luke 9:23 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=9&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=23)"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."

Remember that "selfish" part of you we discussed earlier, God needs you to be willing to surrender that to Him, in essence everything that is you has to die, He took your place and died for you so you could have eternal life, and you must be willing to do the same, die to your self.

I know that sounds harsh, but it's actually not as bad as it sounds, dying to oneself is the best way to allow the love of God fill your soul so that He will remain in you always and drive all that you fear away, and it's not an immediate process, He only wants you to meet every day of your life with the determination to become more like Him and less like you.

Taking-up your cross is allowing Him to take over your life, letting Him take over the throne of your heart and letting Him truly become your Lord, your Master, your Teacher, and as He does He'll reveal Himself to you as your Father, your best friend, your doctor, what ever you need Him to become He'll be for you, that's the purpose of having the relationship.

I tell you this in love because if you truly want to know the living God and want Him to become real for you, "You must be born again!." :saint:

2 Corinthians 5:17 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=47&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus%20king%20lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=17) "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Right, when you get born again God gives you a new heart with new desires,
but How do I die to my self, so that that can happen?

cheech
Mar 18th 2008, 02:52 PM
You said something that caught my eye (I haven't read through all the posts so if it was brought up...sorry.)



However, if I could push a button and automatically believe in Jesus without a doubt, I would. But with my own logic, I can't seem to be able to believe in Him. I so often wonder, what is it that Christians do that they are able to hold on to their faith so well?



You are trying to see things with your own logic but with God, he doesn't do things according to human logic.

Isaiah 55:6-9
Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.
Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

1 Cor 1:18-25
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Man tries to think logically when it comes to God and this is our downfall. When we try to reason everything we read in the Bible and try to come to our own conclusions, many times we get pulled off the path and begin to rethink what we knew as true. The enemy is good at distraction and confusion. This is a spiritual warfare going on behind the scenes that we can't see but by your words it is obvious. There's a reason Christ says we must be like little children to enter the Kingdom of Heaven:

Matt 18:2-4
2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

What is it about little children that Christ says we must be like them in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Little children are love freely, trust easily, forgive quickly. They take our word at face value and believe what we tell them. They may question and ask why, but many times when given an answer they will comply and be satisfied. They believe and don't try to reason every single thing they are told. It's not that their naive, they are just trusting spirits with an abundance of love to give. This is how you must be in order to truly understand God. You must read the Bible not as an adult but as a child. If you have a question, go to your Father in Heaven and ask Him. He will give you an answer just as your own earthly parents would.

You are trying to see God in human standards and with human standards we have limits...we can only do so much...but with God he has no limits. He can do all things but that is where you are seeing the fantasy part and finding it hard to believe. Remember...humans have limits...God does not.

grptinHisHand
Mar 18th 2008, 03:40 PM
Bthings,
Having read lots of great advice, I want to add the following verse. Someone may have already offered it. But if so, forgive the repeat.
I am praying for you.
g

Hebrews 11:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=11&verse=6&version=31&context=verse)
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

RoadWarrior
Mar 18th 2008, 03:51 PM
Right, when you get born again God gives you a new heart with new desires,
but How do I die to my self, so that that can happen?

Bthings, I love that you keep asking us this same question! We are all trying to show you, each from our own experience. It is not an easy question to answer.

I'm sure Dan will get back to you with his response, but I want to share what has been in my mind and heart for you through the night.

A friend of mine will often say, "What does that look like?" I think it is different from one person to another, mainly because God deals with each of us as individuals. I can't walk in your shoes, and see everything as you see it. So I say, here is what it looks like in my life.

Tanya already mentioned to you the verse about "help my unbelief" -

Mk 9:23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!" NKJV


Here is another I have been remembering:

Ps 8:4 What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him? NKJV

And a certain phrase from a song has been echoing in my brain for a whole day now ...

How can it be,
that thou, o Lord, should care for me?

This is the mystery. That He is God, but He cares for me. That He is God, but He cared for us so much that He came to the earth in the form of a man. Can I understand it? No. Not then, and not now, when I have been walking with the Lord for 18 years. It is still a mystery. So we behold it and draw near to it, and trust that in heaven we will understand.

Here is one more scripture for you:

Ro 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. NKJV

Over time, with study of the Bible, with keeping a record of how God has touched my life, I have grown in faith, knowledge, and understanding.

But it all started with choosing to walk this way. Choosing to follow Jesus, even if I don't understand. Choosing to walk in the faith and belief that I had, small as it was, and continuing to pray, "Lord I believe. Help my unbelief!"

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 04:10 PM
Bthings,
Having read lots of great advice, I want to add the following verse. Someone may have already offered it. But if so, forgive the repeat.
I am praying for you.
g

Hebrews 11:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=11&verse=6&version=31&context=verse)
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

and THAT is a good verse :).


But How do I believe in God, when I don't?
people have been saying to me ask Him to help me believe, but I have asked Him that before and I still don't believe.

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 04:15 PM
Right, when you get born again God gives you a new heart with new desires,
but How do I die to my self, so that that can happen?
The first step is to have "faith" in the Gospel message and make it personal, and accept the "gift" of salvation, as we read in Ephesians 2:8 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=49&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Grace means "unmerited favor" it means that there's nothing you need to do or can do to to gain that salvation, the only thing you can do is "believe" it is yours and accept it, this requires "faith" which is believing without seeing, and as you've been saying all along, this is the part you struggle with, but don't feel alone because that's the part we all struggle with.

You see, as cheech said, you need to stop trying to look at things with your own logic, spiritual beings, spiritual ideas, spiritual truths, they are all "spiritual" and hard as you try you will never see them with your physical eyes, only a spiritual man can be granted the spiritual eyes needed to see spiritual things, so the first step in dying to self is to tell your self, "self, I'm going to stop listening to you, and I'm going to be obedient to God who's calling me to have fellowship with Him." Being obedient to God's calling is the first step because it was disobedience that caused fellowship to be broken in the first place.

So now you have to ask yourself, do you believe the Gospel message, do you see why it's important and how it relates to you personally? Do you believe God is reaching-out to you and calling you into fellowship with Him? Do you understand He already did everything He possibly could to make that a reality? and what are you going to do about it, will you be obedient to His calling and shut your brain off "die" to your self, then take that step of "faith" and move on to step two?:dunno:

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 04:52 PM
So what's step two? It also requires faith and I think the verse given by grptinHisHand is excellent to explain step two, and still in the context of "dying to one self" we read in Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Prayer is the next step, faith is required and essential in prayer as used in this verse because you truly have to believe you are talking to God and that He is listening to you, even-though to your unbelieving eyes and ears you're doing nothing more than foolishly speaking into thin air, and your brain (and a demon or two whispering in your ear), will tell you that this is dumb, that if anybody saw you doing this they would think you're crazy; but again dying to self means you ignore your own reasonings and trust, believe, have faith, obey God's will and go on speaking. :pray:

As you do this daily and often, He will be faithful to His promise and reward your faith with a peace and sometimes even an "anointing" a special touch on the crown of your head from the Spirit letting you know He's there and listening intently to what you're saying. :hug:

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 05:04 PM
...
So now you have to ask yourself, do you believe the Gospel message, do you see why it's important and how it relates to you personally? Do you believe God is reaching-out to you and calling you into fellowship with Him? Do you understand He already did everything He possibly could to make that a reality? and what are you going to do about it, will you be obedient to His calling and shut your brain off "die" to your self, then take that step of "faith" and move on to step two?:dunno:

I don't know how to have faith! I don't know how to shut my brain of! I need faith so bad though.


You know something I feel, I feel that something of this just HAS to be real, because of all you guys, you believe all this with all your heart, and i think something just has to be real for so many to believe with their heart like that. All you guys have been born again, and Christian, real Christians that is, they just feel different to me, like when I talk to them someimes I can tell if they're Christian even if they haven't told me that they are yet, Christians just give you this sort of feeling, i don't know how to explain it. Like, I went to church service yesterday, and while everyone was singing songs, I just started to feel something from them, you know what it kinda felt like, it felt holy, i don't know how to say it. But when I think about Christians, i believe something out there has to be real, because Christians are real.
-
so I do believe, I know that He's got to be there.

--
As I'm sitting here my mind is thinking faster than I can write it out. I've been sitting here probably over 25mins and just thinking.

and I want to pray to God, and I want to tell Him that I want to trust Him, like Christians do. But, DanD, how should i say it to Him? I feel afraid of praying to Him and then feeling like it didn't work. Right this moment, I do believe God is real, right now. There have been only a few times in my life where I get into a moment where I do believe God is real and I pray to Him. but like I said earilier then the next day, I go back to the way I was before, where I don't believe is real. I wish I could stay beliving, but right now I am afraid that tommorow I won't believe in Him anymore. DanD, what should I do?

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 05:22 PM
Then what? Step four goes along with steps 1 and 2, and still we're talking about dying to one's self. Get into the Word, so the Word can get into you. This verse is good for that, 2 Timothy 2:15 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=55&CHAP=2&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

As in any relationship, it works best when there's a two way conversation, and as much as we'd like to believe God will speak to us through an audible voice like He did in the OT, you will never go wrong if you go to The Bible to hear what God has to say to you. This requires faith because you have to believe that everything God ever wanted to tell you, not just now but through-out your whole life, He has already said it somewhere in the Holy Scriptures, and searching-out those answers is soooo much fun and well worth the time, ans as you can tell by our replies, we love it so much because it's amazing how God reveals Himself to us through His Word. Isn't it amazing how it seems we always have a verse or two for everything?, and that's not us doing it, that's the Holy Spirit reminding us of things He has shown us before, it's just awesome to me.:spin:

The dying to your self part is, that because God's word is His way to reach us, the devils will do everything possible to keep you from reading it, and it will take discipline and a lot of self denial to get you in the habit of reading at least a chapter or two every day, but it will be worth it, I assure you. :thumbsup:

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 05:37 PM
The dying to your self part is, that because God's word is His way to reach us, the devils will do everything possible to keep you from reading it, and it will take discipline and a lot of self denial to get you in the habit of reading at least a chapter or two every day, but it will be worth it, I assure you. :thumbsup:

A chapter or two every day, huh, I can do that, I actually have a lot of spare time in the morning. so, I'll do that :)

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 05:46 PM
I don't know how to have faith! I don't know how to shut my brain of! I need faith so bad though...

and I want to pray to God, and I want to tell Him that I want to trust Him, like Christians do. But, DanD, how should i say it to Him? I feel afraid of praying to Him and then feeling like it didn't work. Right this moment, I do believe God is real, right now. There have been only a few times in my life where I get into a moment where I do believe God is real and I pray to Him. but like I said earlier then the next day, I go back to the way I was before, where I don't believe is real. I wish I could stay believing, but right now I am afraid that tomorrow I won't believe in Him anymore. DanD, what should I do?Praying to God is no big mystery, prayer it's just you talking to God as you would a friend. God is not a mean old man seating on a throne ready to laugh at you and covering His ears if you say something "not holy", Think of Him as just another sixteen year old going through the same problems and with the same doubts you have, He is whatever you need Him to be at your time of need, He's your creator and He knows you better than you even know yourself, so there's nothing you can hide from Him, just be honest and speak whatever is on your mind and acknowledge He's there listening to you. It's as simple as that. :pray::hug::kiss:

Remember what Jesus said "take-up your cross daily", So tomorrow get-up and start all over again, like I said this is a daily process, deny your self, die to your self, keep-up the faith and keep on believing until you become so aware of His presence you won't even think of it as faith anymore, you'll just know He's real, as I believe you already can sense that it is true. Just open-up your eyes and take that first step of faith, then the next, then another, thus your walk with The Lord begins.:pp

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 06:03 PM
So I should make reading the bible an everyday thing.

you know, I think that if I do that it might be easier to keep on believing. thanks for that idea :)

RoadWarrior
Mar 18th 2008, 06:15 PM
So I should make reading the bible an everyday thing.

you know, I think that if I do that it might be easier to keep on believing. thanks for that idea :)

Yes, this is a great idea. If you stay close to a fire, you stay warm. If you move away from the fire, you cool off. :lol:

Also, going to church regularly, and participating in the Bible studies will be helpful. I've been meaning to ask you about the Bible studies you were in. What kind of study did you do, or what is the group now doing?

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 06:26 PM
Yes, this is a great idea. If you stay close to a fire, you stay warm. If you move away from the fire, you cool off. :lol:

yeah, nice way to put it :)



Also, going to church regularly, and participating in the Bible studies will be helpful. I've been meaning to ask you about the Bible studies you were in. What kind of study did you do, or what is the group now doing?

The Bible studies take place at some from the church's house and the person in charge would pass out these papers that had like a chapter or two from the Bible and she's talked about the meaning of the verses. I remember the last Bible study I attended she did it differently, she talked about how to study the Bible for yourself and when you read verses to think of how you can apply them to your life.
In fact I found out that they're meeting at someone's house tonight, so I think I'll go.

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 06:28 PM
Step four in the "dead to self" process. 2 Corinthians 5:7 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=47&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) Keep having faith through out your day that God, The Lord, The Holy Spirit, all in one are right there walking along with you, and this is why we Christians like to refer to our faith, as a "walk" with The Lord, because God is real and He's alive, and He's omnipresent, and there's no place you can go on this earth, or this whole universe for that matter, where He can't go with you. That's why you have sensed that we have something different, at least "true Christians" have this, a confidence about us that marks us as never being alone, but always blessed with His presence.

Have you ever heard the term "WWJD"?:hmm: This acronym stands for "What Would Jesus Do?", as you walk in faith you'll find your doubts won't automatically just go away, there will be times when your faith will be questioned, ridiculed, mocked, and contradicted, and you'll just want to quit believing and go and be like everybody else. It is at times like these when you'll do well to take a moment and think to your self "WWJD?" and if you allow The Spirit to do His Job, He'll let you know what to do or what to say or whether you should just walk away and keep rejoicing in His company. This little tool has helped me a lot, and I wish somebody had taught it to me sooner in my Christian walk. :cry:

More steps to come! ;)

grptinHisHand
Mar 18th 2008, 06:35 PM
You keep saying you don't believe, but I think that inside you do have a measure of faith or you wouldn't be 'hanging in' here asking these good questions. But God Himself will give you a measure of faith, and when you act on it, your faith is increased. (Romans 12:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=12&verse=3&version=9&context=verse) For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.)

Here is another Scripture from Romans:

Romans 10:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=10&verse=17&version=31&context=verse) NKJV
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the Word of Christ.

If you continue this seeking, discussing your search here with these Christians in the forum, reading your Bible, asking God to help your unbelief, you will soon find that God's love has been with you all this time of your search. If He were not already calling you to Himself, you wouldn't have all this desire to believe in Him.
With love and prayer for you.
g:pray:

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 06:36 PM
Have you ever heard the term "WWJD"?lol, yes I have. I remember first hearing about it in a childrens book, I thought it was pretty catchy, :)

watchinginawe
Mar 18th 2008, 06:51 PM
How can some people be so strong in their faith, so sure there's a God up there?:hmm: That is such a good question. I suppose the answer resides in the supernatural, or rather, the Spiritual. I can't really pinpoint how I got there, but once I was there I have found the following verses completely operative in my faith:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Given, received. Received, given. :dunno: At some point I was convinced of the necessity of God's Grace and I believed. I went from atheist to Christian in about :hmm: maybe 3 months or so. But I went from unbeliever to believer in an instant when I called on the name of the Lord in earnest. The circuit was closed and I have had the assurance of my maker ever since. :yes:
I asked someone that a long time ago and she said because of her change of heart when she became a Christian, she had a new heart with new desires, she wasn't the same person and God gives her the strength to continue the believe as strong as she does.

I wonder to myself why dont' I have a change of heart?What brings this about is repentance, or the changing of our mind concerning God and the things of God. Repentance is the lever to belief. We can't believe something unless we become convinced that our unbelief is wrong. Now, God doesn't leave this up to us. The Holy Spirit will convict us of our unbelief and we will find ourselves lingering in a conversation longer than usual about God or having a deep introspection about what kind of person we really are. Sometimes we will just set these aside as "feelings" or "emotions" and we might resist the work of the Holy Spirit in us.
I have prayed and asked for Jesus before, but at the same time I was, I was also highly doubting that this would work, because I don't believe in God like that. so I also wonder, How do people get enough faith to become Christians in the first place?You are asking these questions at a very opportune time for you to connect with a historical reality: The crucifixion of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. This weekend would be a great weekend to seek out a Church and attend a sunrise service or the later Church service as we remember and recount the resurrection of Jesus from the grave. Or perhaps you and some friends can go to one of the Passion plays being put on.

One last thing. Reading your thread you have mentioned that you have prayed to God for some temporal things in your life and when the time passed, you were back to the beginning. Try to give some consideration about praying to God about some eternal things in your life. That is what the Gospel is all about. Eternity has already begun. :)

God Bless!

EDIT: Wow, I see where you are getting involved in a Bible Study and that you went to Church last weekend. :pp

RoadWarrior
Mar 18th 2008, 07:01 PM
yeah, nice way to put it :)



The Bible studies take place at some from the church's house and the person in charge would pass out these papers that had like a chapter or two from the Bible and she's talked about the meaning of the verses. I remember the last Bible study I attended she did it differently, she talked about how to study the Bible for yourself and when you read verses to think of how you can apply them to your life.
In fact I found out that they're meeting at someone's house tonight, so I think I'll go.

That is exciting, that there is a study available tonight. Please give us a report tomorrow. I'm especially glad that she talked about how to study the Bible for yourself. When you learn these tools, you are like a baby who had to be fed, now learning how to feed yourself.

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 07:09 PM
That is exciting, that there is a study available tonight. Please give us a report tomorrow. I'm especially glad that she talked about how to study the Bible for yourself. When you learn these tools, you are like a baby who had to be fed, now learning how to feed yourself.


:rofl: true as that is, I just had to laugh at the way you phrased it :lol:


and np, I'll tell you how the bible study goes, tomorrow :)

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 07:13 PM
lol, yes I have. I remember first hearing about it in a childrens book, I thought it was pretty catchy, :)Well I'm glad you find that amusing. Are any of these posts helping you at all with your unbelief?

I feel from your replies that perhaps God is not as "unreachable" to you as He was before, I hope we were able to be used by Him to help you realize how close to you He really is. :pray:

Gulah Papyrus
Mar 18th 2008, 07:16 PM
Yep, just stay 'plugged' into the Bible and your faith will strengthen.

Check out Romans 10:17 during your daily reading tomorrow.:idea:

Bthings
Mar 18th 2008, 07:16 PM
Well I'm glad you find that amusing. Are any of these posts helping you at all with your unbelief?

I feel from your replies that perhaps God is not as "unreachable" to you as He was before, I hope we were able to be used by Him to help you realize how close to you He really is. :pray:

Yes, quite a lot of them too.


Thanks to all you guys who have been posting to me!! :)

DanDMan64
Mar 18th 2008, 08:42 PM
Yes, quite a lot of them too.


Thanks to all you guys who have been posting to me!! :)
Step five, somebody already mentioned repenting from your sins, which is correct, however just to add to that and expand on it a bit.

As it relates to "dying to one's self" this is the part where the rubber meets the road, as "Road Warrior" will probably tell you. Being a true follower of Christ and taking-up your cross daily, only becomes evident when after having repented from your sins, you come to realize you're not supposed to keep on doing them, doing so only proves you don't really appreciate the sacrifice Christ had to endure to pay for your sins.

When it comes to sin, whether you realize it or not there's a process that brings about that sin, so knowing how that process works will help you out a great deal in not getting to the point of committing the actual sin. The verses that come to mind are in James 1: "12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Now you have to understand we all have a vice, I haven't met a Christian yet that didn't have at least one, but whatever it is that causes you to stumble most often, the process is the same. Step 1. The devil does something to ignite your desire or "lust" for that thing or act your body craves, or sometimes it happens on it's own. 2. You are enticed by that craving, you contemplate the idea of allowing your body to "enjoy" that craving "just one more time". 4. You finally convince yourself that it's OK, just this one time and no more, besides God knows I love Him, this is not going to change anything. 5. You actually go ahead and do it, at this point you're not even thinking about it anymore, you just let it happen. 6. You die, you get separated from God and your fellowship is broken, and you realize to restore it you're going to have to confess the sin again and ask for forgiveness, and you hate yourself for having allowed it.

The best thing to not get to steps 5 "sin" is to realize at what point you are before step 5 and react accordingly.

There are many verses that help us with this "temptation" issue so that it doesn't get to step 5, one of my favorites is this one in 1 Corinthians 10:13 (http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=46&CHAP=10&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." There's always a way out of every temptation, and it really builds you up spiritually when you find that "way out" and use it and you beat the devil. Perhaps others have some more they'd like to share, but it is possible to "die to your self" by not letting your body always get what it wants, specially when doing so is a direct violation of what you know God has shown you to be His will. :amen:

Saved7
Mar 18th 2008, 08:53 PM
'Jesus endured hours of extreme pain and suffering so you could be saved!' but inside I literally think 'yeah, right, who would actually do that?'



---Bthings

Hmmm, it would seem that you are looking at His sacrifice through your own sinful human eyes. By that I mean....if you knew God you would know and understand the love that He has for us is so much more than any human is capable of. The problem is we cannot even begin to comprehend that sort of love, and when we look at His sacrifice through our limited understanding of love; we find it difficult to believe that one would choose to suffer like that for his own enemies.
If you pay close attention to what the bible says of love and humility you will see just what love is supposed to be about....selflessness. But we aren't capable of loving like that completely...however there have been many who have laid down their lives for the belief of this love and this wonderful God of ours. I would say that they came close to understanding that love.
You know how people like to say that love conquers all things?...Jesus/God...is love itself; and more than that.

So the question is how does one ever come to faith in Christ, when they struggle with it as you do? Pray and ask God to give it to you.:saint:

Ps...I sometimes like to share my testimony with others in the hopes that it helps, ya know, to see a real living person who has literally been with Jesus. And while reading my testimony if you see fit too, remember....I had absolutely NO BACKGROUND in the church or bible, only knew of God and that He had a son who died for my sins. That's it.

Click on the link for the testimony.

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=77958

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 19th 2008, 01:18 PM
BThings

I have read every post in this thread, from the very first to the very last, and all I can say is WOW! The power of God, manifest through His body of believers, is truly an awe inspiring thing to watch! Many times I fought back tears and found my head bobbing up and down in a "yep, been there, done that" fashion.

I have to commend you, my young friend: Perseverance is a quality lacking in many, but not prevalent especially in today's youth. The easy way is to accept the current fad, follow the flow of the masses, and drop it for the next "in" thing that pops up. Yet here you sit, diligent to this thread, embracing tenacity. This is much of what we see as the Spirit working in you - and I saw little things, such as your (correct) capitalization of 'Him' and proper use of scripture.

Not only have I lived through the confusing years your age sets upon your shoulders at this time, I have children your age. Their tribulations are mine as their parent, and I know that you are rarely faced with anything easy. Not that MY opinion about you matters for a hill of beans, but you have honestly, seriously impressed me.

Furthermore, I have to commend everyone in this thread for their heartfelt, Spirit filled replies. The Lord is doing a great work through you all, and I can but aspire to one day have your faith and indwelling that God uses so effectively through your willingness. God Bless You all!

BThings, I also see that you are on "coffee break," which denotes a private conversation with staff here. I will tell you from PERSONAL experience that the staff here are wonderful, Godly people. They will tell you what you don't want to hear, out of love, because it's most likely what you need to hear. I know you can't reply to this, and that's fine - you can still read.

You know, I don't think ANY Christian would tell you that, at one time or another, they prayed and wondered if there was really anyone listening. I could not honestly state that I've never questioned. I've struggled with faith just as you have, and I've spent many a morning contemplating why I chose to pray the day before when today it doesn't seem real.

That DOES go away. Once again, perseverance. When is a little different for each of us, as our personal walks with God have different time lines. But if you continue to seek, to pray even when you don't believe, to expect God to move, it will come where one day you'll have zero doubt that He's out there, and He's listening. Pray to a wall, God still hears that prayer, even if you don't think He does. He is not limited to our doubts, and He does understand them and sympathizes with us.

Just hang in there, brother. I'll let these others guide you, but I am off on the side, cheering you on, praying for you!

grptinHisHand
Mar 19th 2008, 06:04 PM
Bthings, I searched so that I could bring this thread back to the top of the list. Just want you to know that I have been thinking of you and praying for you:pray:. I hope you are beginning to get your answer to "I wonder why..." But changing it to "I wonder why I waited so long to believe?"
In Christ, g

Saved7
Mar 20th 2008, 11:50 AM
I also have this stomach churning feeling that God is going to stop helping me because I don't believe. But I need Him to help me with my phobias, but then I feel ashamed because I don't believe in Him afterwards.
But I really do want to believe in Him, but my mind just won't let me.


Hmmm, judging by this statement, I would say you DO believe, just not as deeply and with the understanding that you could. :saint:

Bthings
Mar 21st 2008, 04:07 PM
Hmmm, judging by this statement, I would say you DO believe, just not as deeply and with the understanding that you could. :saint:
well, I guess I do believe then. What kind of understanding are you talking about?

DanDMan64
Mar 21st 2008, 04:40 PM
well, I guess I do believe then. What kind of understanding are you talking about?Hello again Bthings, I'm sure Saved7 will reply soon enough with a great answer, but if I may I'd like to offer my own humble opinion.

I think Saved7 is talking about "spiritual understanding" as opposed to plain old brain power type of understanding. :hmm:.

Paul told the "believers" in Rome this words, Romans 12:2 "Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what is the good, well-pleasing, and perfect will of God." Note that these people were already believers, they had accepted the gospel message and had prayed the sinners prayer, but they still had doubts just as you do, and actually we all do. But being "transformed" by the renewing of our minds is what helps us know God and understand His plan for our lives better.

You might then naturally want to ask, but how does one get that "transformation" to happen?. Well, if you started taking those steps of "dying to one's self" I already told you about, then you're already well on your way, and taking part in the transformation process, through the power of The Holy Spirit of God.

I hope that helps! and my apologies for having called you a "young man" earlier, but "Bthings" is not a very gender specific screen name.;)

Saved7
Mar 21st 2008, 04:47 PM
What kind of understanding are you talking about?


The spiritual understanding is what I am referring to. There is much more depth to God's word than what you "see". Praying for this helps a great deal, as well as DanDman had suggested. The renewing of your mind transforms you, and it is reading God's word daily that helps with that. You should always pray for understanding before reading the bible and pray that God increase your faith and understanding.
Having doubts is normal, it's the depth of doubts that you have that trouble you. Don't worry about that, just pray about it and God will work it out in you. It is His will to see all come to true faith and be made more like Christ, therefore you can be guarenteed that He will answer your prayers on these things.

Bthings
Mar 21st 2008, 05:05 PM
I hope that helps! and my apologies for having called you a "young man" earlier, but "Bthings" is not a very gender specific screen name.;)

lol, very true! sorry about that

DanDMan64
Mar 21st 2008, 06:53 PM
No apology required, I'm just kind-a disappointed that you didn't correct me earlier when I made the mistake. Here I was thinking that finally I found a "young boy" that seemed to be showing signs of maturing faster than a girl, (at last!) and it turns out I was actually speaking to a girl, :rofl:what was I thinking?:rolleyes: