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MeerkatMadden
Mar 17th 2008, 07:31 PM
Easter Conspiracy: What the Church is NOT telling you about Easter & Passover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_m9so55FA

Have you ever thought about where the word "Easter" comes from?
The Britannica Encyclopedia (1934) states:

“EASTER (es’ter). Ostara, or Eastre, was the goddess of Spring in the religion of the ancient Angles and Saxons. Every April a festival was celebrated in her honor. With the beginnings of Christianity, the old gods were put aside. From then on the festival was celebrated in honor of the resurrection of Christ, but was still known as Easter after the old goddess.”

Dictionary.com tells us:

http://dictionary.reference.com/features/easter.html

"Rabbits were part of pre-Christian fertility lore and symbolized the abundance of new life associated with Spring. The ancient German goddess Ostara (called Eostre in Anglo-Saxon) was accompanied by a hare, which may have been the precursor of the modern Easter Bunny."
Christiananswers.net explains:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t020.html

"Basically, almost every vile, profane and idolatrous practice you can think of originated at Babel with Queen Semiramis, the Mother Goddess and Nimrod. As the people scattered from Babel with their different languages, they, of course, used different names for Nimrod (Tammuz) and Semiramis. Some called the Mother Goddess “ISHTAR” (originally pronounced “Easter”). In other lands, she was called Eostre, Astarte, Ostera, and Eastre. Other names for Semiramis, the Mother Goddess include: Wife of Baal, Ashtaroth or Ashtoreth, and Queen of Heaven. The Mother goddess was frequently worshipped as the goddess of fertility - and as a sort of Mother Nature and goddess of Spring and sexual love and birth. She was also worshipped as a mediator between god and man. Sexual orgies and temple prostitutes were often used in her worship and in attempting to gain her favor."

So why do you celebrate a holiday named for a pagan fertility goddess that used eggs and bunny rabbits as fertility symbols before Jesus even came?

You do realize that "Easter" was celebrated before Jesus, right?

Why do you not celebrate the holiday that prophesied the death of the Messiah, that actually occurred during the time when the Messiah died and rose again, and that the Messiah actually instructed us to "do this in remembrance of me"?

Why do you not celebrate the holiday that Jesus himself celebrated, and that Jesus will celebrate once again when He returns to this earth? (See Ezekiel 45-46)

If you do not know about Passover and what the Bible has to say about it, then you REALLY need to see this shocking YouTube film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_m9so55FA

Eaglenester
Mar 17th 2008, 07:52 PM
Easter Conspiracy: What the Church is NOT telling you about Easter & Passover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_m9so55FA

Have you ever thought about where the word "Easter" comes from?
The Britannica Encyclopedia (1934) states:

“EASTER (es’ter). Ostara, or Eastre, was the goddess of Spring in the religion of the ancient Angles and Saxons. Every April a festival was celebrated in her honor. With the beginnings of Christianity, the old gods were put aside. From then on the festival was celebrated in honor of the resurrection of Christ, but was still known as Easter after the old goddess.”

Dictionary.com tells us:

http://dictionary.reference.com/features/easter.html

"Rabbits were part of pre-Christian fertility lore and symbolized the abundance of new life associated with Spring. The ancient German goddess Ostara (called Eostre in Anglo-Saxon) was accompanied by a hare, which may have been the precursor of the modern Easter Bunny."
Christiananswers.net explains:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t020.html

"Basically, almost every vile, profane and idolatrous practice you can think of originated at Babel with Queen Semiramis, the Mother Goddess and Nimrod. As the people scattered from Babel with their different languages, they, of course, used different names for Nimrod (Tammuz) and Semiramis. Some called the Mother Goddess “ISHTAR” (originally pronounced “Easter”). In other lands, she was called Eostre, Astarte, Ostera, and Eastre. Other names for Semiramis, the Mother Goddess include: Wife of Baal, Ashtaroth or Ashtoreth, and Queen of Heaven. The Mother goddess was frequently worshipped as the goddess of fertility - and as a sort of Mother Nature and goddess of Spring and sexual love and birth. She was also worshipped as a mediator between god and man. Sexual orgies and temple prostitutes were often used in her worship and in attempting to gain her favor."

So why do you celebrate a holiday named for a pagan fertility goddess that used eggs and bunny rabbits as fertility symbols before Jesus even came?

You do realize that "Easter" was celebrated before Jesus, right?

Why do you not celebrate the holiday that prophesied the death of the Messiah, that actually occurred during the time when the Messiah died and rose again, and that the Messiah actually instructed us to "do this in remembrance of me"?

Why do you not celebrate the holiday that Jesus himself celebrated, and that Jesus will celebrate once again when He returns to this earth? (See Ezekiel 45-46)

If you do not know about Passover and what the Bible has to say about it, then you REALLY need to see this shocking YouTube film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_m9so55FA

And when one researches more of the pagan origins and traditions of easter - and discover the roots of eating ham, then one gets a clearer understanding of what an abomination easter is to Elohim.

The problem is that most christians and "churches" are so deeply in bondage to the man-made (and paganized) traditions, rituals and practices that they won't accept what you are saying.

They will react angrily because if they start to question easter, and then christmas - then they start to question the other religious traditions and teachings and that is wayyyyy toooooo scary for most.

But what they don't realize is that is when they will start to really experience freedom and power.

But there is an awakening happening, peoples eyes are being opened as they cry out to Elohim to know Truth.

YHWH, my strength and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to you shall the nations come from the ends of the earth and say: "Our fathers have inherited nothing but lies, worthless things in which there is no profit.

(Jeremiah 16:19)


This prophecy is beginning to be fulfilled in an ever increasing way as more and followers of Messiah who, are dissatisfied with the religious establishments, cry out to Elohim and seek His Truth and ways.

thethinker
Mar 17th 2008, 08:36 PM
And when one researches more of the pagan origins and traditions of easter - and discover the roots of eating ham, then one gets a clearer understanding of what an abomination easter is to Elohim.

The problem is that most christians and "churches" are so deeply in bondage to the man-made (and paganized) traditions, rituals and practices that they won't accept what you are saying.

They will react angrily because if they start to question easter, and then christmas - then they start to question the other religious traditions and teachings and that is wayyyyy toooooo scary for most.

But what they don't realize is that is when they will start to really experience freedom and power.

But there is an awakening happening, peoples eyes are being opened as they cry out to Elohim to know Truth.

YHWH, my strength and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to you shall the nations come from the ends of the earth and say: "Our fathers have inherited nothing but lies, worthless things in which there is no profit.

(Jeremiah 16:19)


This prophecy is beginning to be fulfilled in an ever increasing way as more and followers of Messiah who, are dissatisfied with the religious establishments, cry out to Elohim and seek His Truth and ways.

Look at the other side of it. More people attend church at the time of these "pagan" holidays and get to hear the Gospel of our Lord or some message from the Word of God.

When I was a child my mother took me to church one Sunday per year. That was Easter Sunday and I enjoyed it.

Paul went into the Areopagus and preached to the pagan philosophers. They had an inscription on the altar that said: "TO THE UNKNOWN GOD". He said:

"The one whom you worship without knowing, I proclaim to you: God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands...."

Paul went on to tell those pagans about the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul "robbed" those pagans of their heritage. Their "unknown God" became Paul's God. Some of the men who heard believed in Jesus and joined Paul (Acts 17: 16-34).

So hey, why not "christianize" a pagan holy day?

moonglow
Mar 17th 2008, 08:39 PM
Most Christians know this actually, its not a big secret...the church picked these days to stamp out the pagan holidays..and its worked well since those pagan holidays are no longer followed. I don't worship this pagan god on easter, nor the one on Christmas either...I worship Christ alone. I think what matters is what is in our hearts just as the bible says...not the day.

Colossians 2:15-17

16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

Right before Christmas..right before Easter every single years these type of posts come up...which I think is sad as it usually turns into one big huge nasty fight. Some Christians do not do these holidays because of these old pagan days and that is fine...that is what they choose to do. I don't judge them for it but I think its wrong those of us that do observed the birth of Christ and the risen Christ should be put down for it simply over the date! Anyway that is all I am going to say about this cause I know how these threads go and its really not worth the damage they do.

God bless

HisLeast
Mar 17th 2008, 08:40 PM
So hey, why not "christianize" a pagan holy day?

On top of which, there is not a single day on the entire calendar that can't be linked to some kind of pagan festival celebrated in some part of the world. :(

Athanasius
Mar 17th 2008, 08:43 PM
Why do you not celebrate the holiday that prophesied the death of the Messiah, that actually occurred during the time when the Messiah died and rose again, and that the Messiah actually instructed us to "do this in remembrance of me"?

We already do. . . Who said we didn't?

menJesus
Mar 17th 2008, 08:49 PM
I believe that its good to find out the truth about the holidays, regardless of how we celebrate them - or not.

Who knows? This little tidbit of information may plant the seed of salvation in some non-believer... who knows?

Knowledge is power. We need to learn all we can...

redeemedbyhim
Mar 17th 2008, 08:51 PM
Most Christians know this actually, its not a big secret...the church picked these days to stamp out the pagan holidays..and its worked well since those pagan holidays are no longer followed. I don't worship this pagan god on easter, nor the one on Christmas either...I worship Christ alone. I think what matters is what is in our hearts just as the bible says...not the day.

Colossians 2:15-17

16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

Right before Christmas..right before Easter every single years these type of posts come up...which I think is sad as it usually turns into one big huge nasty fight. Some Christians do not do these holidays because of these old pagan days and that is fine...that is what they choose to do. I don't judge them for it but I think its wrong those of us that do observed the birth of Christ and the risen Christ should be put down for it simply over the date! Anyway that is all I am going to say about this cause I know how these threads go and its really not worth the damage they do.

God bless

AMEN!

Well said.
Sometimes I think it's even worse to go on about how "pagan" it is to celebrate Easter and Christmas than to actually go to church on those days and Praise God for the birth, death, burial and ressurection of our Lord.
Man looks on the outward, God looks on the heart.

moonglow
Mar 17th 2008, 08:52 PM
On top of which, there is not a single day on the entire calendar that can't be linked to some kind of pagan festival celebrated in some part of the world. :(

True...that includes the names of the days of our week!

The First Day: Sunday was named after the Sun god.

The second Day: Monday was named after the moon goddess.

The Third Day: Tuesday was named after the god Tyr.

The Fourth Day: Wednesday was named after the god Odin.

The Fifth Day: Thursday was named after the god Thor.

The Sixth Day: Friday was named after the goddess Frigga.

The Seventh Day: Saturday was named after the god Saturn.

JANUARY:

Named for Janus, the Roman mighty one of portals and patron of beginnings and endings, to whom this month was sacred. He is shown as having two faces, one in front, the other at the back of his head, supposedly to symbolize his powers.

FEBRUARY:

This name is derived from Februa, a Roman festival of purification. It was originally the month of expiation.

MARCH:

It is named for Mars, the Roman mighty one of war.

and on and on and on...

From this website: http://www.therefinersfire.org/days_months.htm

VerticalReality
Mar 17th 2008, 08:59 PM
I was wondering why we hadn't seen any of these threads yet, and what do you know . . . it has arrived!:lol:

Honestly, do folks really believe that we do not know this pagan stuff by now?

menJesus
Mar 17th 2008, 09:10 PM
There are a lot of unbelievers and new believers - and then there are people like me - who do not know everything that is in any way possibly related to any and all aspects of religion.

Then there are some people - lots of new people - from one holiday to the next. Aside from the thousands of visitors who come by every single day, looking for answers.

It would be a lot more productive of all you Einsteins ;) if you would just let the rest of us learn what we can learn... after all, this is why we are all here.

thethinker
Mar 17th 2008, 09:21 PM
On top of which, there is not a single day on the entire calendar that can't be linked to some kind of pagan festival celebrated in some part of the world. :(

But Jesus' death and resurrection is commemorated and preached on
"Easter" Sunday. :pp

Studyin'2Show
Mar 17th 2008, 10:26 PM
But Jesus' death and resurrection is commemorated and preached on
"Easter" Sunday. :ppI don't have a problem with people choosing any of the 365 days to preach Messiah. It would be nice, however, if believers celebrated the sacrifice of our Passover Lamb....well, on Passover which this year isn't until next month. :hmm:

God Bless!

moonglow
Mar 17th 2008, 10:28 PM
There are a lot of unbelievers and new believers - and then there are people like me - who do not know everything that is in any way possibly related to any and all aspects of religion.

Then there are some people - lots of new people - from one holiday to the next. Aside from the thousands of visitors who come by every single day, looking for answers.

It would be a lot more productive of all you Einsteins ;) if you would just let the rest of us learn what we can learn... after all, this is why we are all here.

You are right you have a right to learn this stuff...I never heard of this stuff until I became a member on here...which was in 02 and seeing it every year, it just gets old and its like an attack on our faith. I was very hurt when I first read this stuff actually and felt like some people wanted to do away with us recognizing Jesus in anyway, especially having certain special days set aside such as celebrating His birth, His death and His rising. It was like...ok it was actually Christians doing more to stop our celebrations then atheists actually which made totally no sense to me!

Now I can't go anywhere on the net without seeing this kind of stuff...the atheist love pointing it out to try to undermine our faith and it furthers their cause that the life of Jesus is just a copy of these other pagan gods. This is something I personally battle against quite often actually. So while yes, you have a right to know....just understand why some of us are always so dismayed to see these type of posts. Its not a conspiracy, nor a secret though as the title says. No there is no scriptures that says we have to observe Jesus' birthday...though many did go to honor Him as soon as they could at His birth including the angels...and our whole faith hangs on the Risen Christ...so yea, to say we should just ignore it because of the day its on or because of its name, is making a long forgotten pagan god more powerful over us then Christ...and that would be sad indeed.

God bless

menJesus
Mar 17th 2008, 10:38 PM
moonglow, if I were you I would not get overly concerned over what people say - after all, some people are going to say ANYTHING to us, in order to try to shake our faith...

Although some of us may "celebrate" with chocolate bunnies and colored eggs, no christian is ever going to forget the real reason to celebrate this day, one of the greatest days of all days... :)

thethinker
Mar 17th 2008, 10:47 PM
I don't have a problem with people choosing any of the 365 days to preach Messiah. It would be nice, however, if believers celebrated the sacrifice of our Passover Lamb....well, on Passover which this year isn't until next month. :hmm:

God Bless!

S2S,
You show only that you are in bondage to the "letter" of things. After Christ fulfilled all things there is no "calender" to speak of. Ponder this.

RoadWarrior
Mar 17th 2008, 10:48 PM
This information can be quite shocking when you first learn about it. Once you know it, then you have to come to grips with it. What does it mean? How does that affect me?

Some of us cope with it, carry on, and do what we have always done, celebrate the holiday as usual.

Others of us find that we can be liberated from the burden we carried to try and make it a Hallmark Holiday, or a Norman Rockwell painting.

In the end, what matters is what you do with Jesus. Do you throw Him out as you throw out the holiday? Do you ignore Him as you eat ham and chocolate and colored eggs?

Or do you use this information to glean truth, to separate the truth from the lie, and let your faith grow stronger in Him, rather than having your faith depend on man's traditions?

May the Lord open your eyes, grant you discernment and wisdom along with a deeper faith in Him and Him alone.

obeytheword
Mar 17th 2008, 10:49 PM
My father was trying to convince me of this view one time, and gave me a sermon from his church (Church of Christ) and in the sermon the pastor basically said go ahead and have fun with Santa and the Easter Bunny, just do not try and link Christ to either. Don't celebrate his birth, and just do the Lords supper every service and don't worry about celebrating his resurrection other than that.

Thought that was a rather interesting slant on it...

In scripture the angles celebrated his birth - does not seem too out of line for us to do the same?? Since we don't know exactly when it is.....

Anyway - the Passover / Easter discussion is much more fruitful than the Christmas one - but still, I do not see a problem with celebrating Easter - I just personally hate it when Churches Do so with easter egg hunts. That has always seemed wrong to me, regardless of how it is justified. Much better ways to do it in my opinion :)

Be Blessed!

Studyin'2Show
Mar 17th 2008, 11:00 PM
You are right you have a right to learn this stuff...I never heard of this stuff until I became a member on here...which was in 02 and seeing it every year, it just gets old and its like an attack on our faith. I was very hurt when I first read this stuff actually and felt like some people wanted to do away with us recognizing Jesus in anyway, especially having certain special days set aside such as celebrating His birth, His death and His rising. It was like...ok it was actually Christians doing more to stop our celebrations then atheists actually which made totally no sense to me!

Now I can't go anywhere on the net without seeing this kind of stuff...the atheist love pointing it out to try to undermine our faith and it furthers their cause that the life of Jesus is just a copy of these other pagan gods. This is something I personally battle against quite often actually. So while yes, you have a right to know....just understand why some of us are always so dismayed to see these type of posts. Its not a conspiracy, nor a secret though as the title says. No there is no scriptures that says we have to observe Jesus' birthday...though many did go to honor Him as soon as they could at His birth including the angels...and our whole faith hangs on the Risen Christ...so yea, to say we should just ignore it because of the day its on or because of its name, is making a long forgotten pagan god more powerful over us then Christ...and that would be sad indeed.

God blessI am so sorry for anyone who has felt this way because information like this is shared. Any time I share, I in no way mean it to be an attack on anyone's faith. I didn't find out about any of this from the internet but from the library when my mother began to study these things about eight or nine years ago (and she didn't hear about it on the internet). When we began to find out about the pagan origins of things like this, it just did not set well with us and so we began a biblical study on holy days. What we found was that all these things had already been preordained by the Father. What we had once called Good Friday, we began to call Passover as God had so named it. The day of Yeshua's burial (that evening) was the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the Word of God without sin). And the third day when He rose was the Feasts of First Fruits (He was the firstfruits from the grave). :pp

I must admit that when I first stumbled upon BibleForums 2 years ago, I was excited to share these things with believers. But never because I wanted to 'taken them down' so to speak, rather for the opposite because I wanted to build them up. Scripture says that God's people perish for lack of knowledge and I wanted to help give His people the knowledge I thought was lacking as it had been with me. In the 2 years since coming here I have seen lots of division over these things which I don't believe is good for the body of Messiah. I don't get involved in the threads where someone comes in making judgments against believers for what day they observe, but I see no harm in the way the information was presented here, though the title could have been less divisive. ;)

God Bless!

Studyin'2Show
Mar 17th 2008, 11:08 PM
S2S,
You show only that you are in bondage to the "letter" of things. After Christ fulfilled all things there is no "calender" to speak of. Ponder this.That's funny since I, in no way judged you yet you felt no shame in completely judging me. :rolleyes: That's okay, since I know that it has been His Holy Spirit that has led me in each step of my walk thus far. I will hear the words of Paul and not allow ANYONE to judge me regarding such things. ;)

Colossians 2:16 - So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths

How sad really. :cry: Divisive attitudes against fellow disciples of Yeshua are never good.

God Bless!

valleybldr
Mar 17th 2008, 11:10 PM
S2S,
You show only that you are in bondage to the "letter" of things. After Christ fulfilled all things there is no "calender" to speak of. Ponder this.
You can find in the Bible the Sabbath, Passover and Succot all mentioned regarding their future observances. So, there is a calendar and these Christ-centered "appointed times" are eternal (at least as long as physical humans exist). I don't find a date with my Messiah as "bondage" though others may disagree. todd

Teke
Mar 17th 2008, 11:13 PM
S2S,
You show only that you are in bondage to the "letter" of things. After Christ fulfilled all things there is no "calender" to speak of. Ponder this.

The ancient church has kept a calendar (counted weeks) and celebrated the Lord's feasts for some 2,000 yrs now. Pascha (Resurrection feast) is April 27th this year, after Jewish Passover which is the Sunday before.
Ponder that.

thethinker
Mar 17th 2008, 11:24 PM
That's funny since I, in no way judged you yet you felt no shame in completely judging me. :rolleyes: That's okay, since I know that it has been His Holy Spirit that has led me in each step of my walk thus far. I will hear the words of Paul and not allow ANYONE to judge me regarding such things. ;)

Colossians 2:16 - So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths

How sad really. :cry: Divisive attitudes against fellow disciples of Yeshua are never good.

God Bless!

The whole law was fulfilled. There is no Jewish calendar now. No day is better than another. I'm not the one saying that the Passover ought to be observed on a particular day in the calender year.

"To the pure all things are pure"!

Studyin'2Show
Mar 17th 2008, 11:37 PM
The whole law was fulfilled. There is no Jewish calendar now. No day is better than another. I'm not the one saying that the Passover ought to be observed on a particular day in the calender year.

"To the pure all things are pure"!You sure seem to be making a judgment about me AND my faith because you celebrate 'easter' that God did not ordain His feast forever, while I celebrate Passover which God DID ordain His feast forever. Don't be mistaken, I celebrate and will celebrate Yeshua's birth, life, sacrifice, and resurrection EVERY day I take breath. I was speaking, however, of the Passover season which Almighty God says we should observe in remembrance of the fact that we were brought out of bondage (sin) by our Mighty God. How can being obedient to God's word, in faith, by wrong? God does not contradict His own word.

valleybldr
Mar 17th 2008, 11:51 PM
The whole law was fulfilled. There is no Jewish calendar now. No day is better than another. I'm not the one saying that the Passover ought to be observed on a particular day in the calender year.

"To the pure all things are pure"! I think what you are trying to say is that the biblical Holy Days no longer exist for the Christians. Do you acknowledge their future observances? todd

thethinker
Mar 17th 2008, 11:58 PM
You sure seem to be making a judgment about me AND my faith because you celebrate 'easter' that God did not ordain His feast forever, while I celebrate Passover which God DID ordain His feast forever. Don't be mistaken, I celebrate and will celebrate Yeshua's birth, life, sacrifice, and resurrection EVERY day I take breath. I was speaking, however, of the Passover season which Almighty God says we should observe in remembrance of the fact that we were brought out of bondage (sin) by our Mighty God. How can being obedient to God's word, in faith, by wrong? God does not contradict His own word.

Okay, where in the NEW Testament does God say this? I am not bound by old covenant laws, or feasts or celebrations or anything. Worship now is in the spirit,

"God is spirit, and they that worship Him MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24)

And, "But now we have been delivered from the law...so that we may serve according to the NEWNESS of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter" (Rom. 7:6).

You think that I am being judgmental. But I can see through all of this. Christians are the most prohibitive creatures on the earth. In fact, an elder at my church preached this last Sunday about Christians being too prohibitive. But in the Sunday school hour before that he told a man that cremation is wrong and that Christians should not do it.

The man was struggling because his sister wanted to cremate the body of the loved one. So the elder instead of assuring the man of His liberty in Christ to do what he wants rather tells him that cremation is disrespectful and God would not approve. The man needed a word that set his conscience free but gets a word that burdened his conscience even more.

That's what's happening here. Some of you are saying, "We should not observe the passover as we are." We are bound by old covenant law still, the Jewish calendars too".

Some of the world's hatred toward us is legitimate.

The Parson
Mar 18th 2008, 12:15 AM
Tell you whut folks. This thread isn't Bible Chat material. More like Anything Goes so here it goes to Anything Goes...

diffangle
Mar 18th 2008, 01:59 AM
Okay, where in the NEW Testament does God say this? I am not bound by old covenant laws, or feasts or celebrations or anything.

Act 18:21 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Act&c=18&v=21&t=KJV#21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

1Cr 5:8 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=5&v=8&t=KJV#8) Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.

diffangle
Mar 18th 2008, 02:09 AM
So hey, why not "christianize" a pagan holy day?

Deut 12

29 When YHWH thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;


30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

31 Thou shalt not do so unto YHWH thy God: for every abomination to YHWH, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods(easter practice... they died eggs/fertility symbols in the babies blood).

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Studyin'2Show
Mar 18th 2008, 02:14 AM
You think that I am being judgmental. But I can see through all of this.

That's what's happening here. Some of you are saying, "We should not observe the passover as we are." We are bound by old covenant law still, the Jewish calendars too".So, let me get this straight. :hmm: Are you saying that I have liberty to do anything else but I do not have liberty to celebrate the feasts God calls His forever? Is that really liberty? And BTW, you don't have a clue about who I am so please get off the high horse and let's just discuss this issue rationally. You know, like people who both know that the other has liberty. :rolleyes: I have absolutely no problem with you or what you choose to do. So, why would you have a problem with my choice? That liberty doesn't count? :hmm:

moonglow
Mar 18th 2008, 02:50 AM
I am so sorry for anyone who has felt this way because information like this is shared. Any time I share, I in no way mean it to be an attack on anyone's faith. I didn't find out about any of this from the internet but from the library when my mother began to study these things about eight or nine years ago (and she didn't hear about it on the internet). When we began to find out about the pagan origins of things like this, it just did not set well with us and so we began a biblical study on holy days. What we found was that all these things had already been preordained by the Father. What we had once called Good Friday, we began to call Passover as God had so named it. The day of Yeshua's burial (that evening) was the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the Word of God without sin). And the third day when He rose was the Feasts of First Fruits (He was the firstfruits from the grave). :pp

I must admit that when I first stumbled upon BibleForums 2 years ago, I was excited to share these things with believers. But never because I wanted to 'taken them down' so to speak, rather for the opposite because I wanted to build them up. Scripture says that God's people perish for lack of knowledge and I wanted to help give His people the knowledge I thought was lacking as it had been with me. In the 2 years since coming here I have seen lots of division over these things which I don't believe is good for the body of Messiah. I don't get involved in the threads where someone comes in making judgments against believers for what day they observe, but I see no harm in the way the information was presented here, though the title could have been less divisive. ;)

God Bless!

Thank you for understanding! Its nice when someone does. Having grown up easter egg hunting and dying the eggs and writing Jesus' Name on them and being told the new life that comes from these eggs is like the new life Jesus gives us...and getting all dressed up to go to church for that special Easter morning service...having alot of wonderful memories there with my dad who later was killed in a car accident when I was just 11...then being told this was all bad...well you can image how I took it. So what was I suppose to do? Just scrap those memories? Take Easter away from my son because of some pagan holiday that no one observes anymore that I didn't even know about until six years ago? Yea it was upsetting and I didn't see why people were making such a big deal over it. It was threating on many levels to me..NOT because of the history of this before Christ...but the attitude of so many Christians denouncing this day...I saw it as heart breaking. It was like Christians were just giving up! Giving up something dear to us all over this???? I sure didn't understand that!

I was also a new Christian and not mature at all in my faith and it really was something I could have lived without ever knowing actually. As I said, now the atheist carry this even further and there are video's all over youtube flat out lying about these pagan gods having the same life as Jesus..being born of a virgin, having 12 disciples, doing miracles, etc, etc. (having researched this though, none of it is true)...but they start their video's with saying Jesus was born on Dec. 25th and so were all these other gods (not true on both accounts). This kind of stuff adds fuel to their fire. So then I feel I am getting hit at both ends over this holiday, over Christmas and every other holiday that has to do with Jesus. I get from the atheist then turn around and get it from the people I should feel safest with...so yea, I get a little upset with the whole topic actually.

People are right about one thing though, by the time Jesus was born the Jews were following the Roman calendar which is totally pagan in every way...so how anyone figures out what holiday is suppose to be where, I have no clue. I am not that smart. So I just keep it simple...I do Christmas (actually my family does Christmas twice..long story) we observe passover and Easter...

I never lied to my son about any Easter bunny, or Santa Claus though I was raised with some of those ideas myself as a little child. I have always kept the focus on Jesus with him. I am not going to take these memories he gets every year celebrating with family and going to church and all the things we do on these days away from him. I just won't do it. If we were worshiping some pagan god then I would expect a rebuke of course, but we aren't. I can't ask my whole family to change what they call these days, or the dates of them either over this as most of you know, those that work get their time off around these set dates...if we changed them we couldn't be with our family on those days and considering its just Nate and I, he needs his extended family. I won't rob him of this...anymore then I would give up my childhood memories of these special holidays. (this directed at everyone in general)


But Studyin'2Show, I like how you decided to handle things...that sounds lovely. Everyone needs to do what they believe is right on this. Anyway I see things are heating up...as I knew they would..which is sad...I have said my peace on this. I have the utmost respect for those that wish to avoid these holidays for whatever reason...or do them on different days...you do what you all feel is right. I am sticking with this verse on these holidays:

Colossians 2:16
So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.


menJesus:

moonglow, if I were you I would not get overly concerned over what people say - after all, some people are going to say ANYTHING to us, in order to try to shake our faith...

Although some of us may "celebrate" with chocolate bunnies and colored eggs, no christian is ever going to forget the real reason to celebrate this day, one of the greatest days of all days...

True! I bought some marshmallow chocolate half eggs (not real eggs)...don't know what those things are called...but I love them! yum!

God bless

Studyin'2Show
Mar 18th 2008, 03:05 AM
True! I bought some marshmallow chocolate half eggs (not real eggs)...don't know what those things are called...but I love them! yum! We don't celebrate the day but my hubby and I always buy the candy AFTER the day is over! :lol: After valentine's we got bags of Hershey's red kisses for like 22 cents or something ridiculous. I expect the same next week with the chocolate bunnies. Hey, chocolate is chocolate, right? :D

IPet2_9
Mar 18th 2008, 06:05 AM
I knew it! I always knew my church had a secret conspiracy to use Easter just to fatten us up. Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, and Robert Schuller had a secret meeting where they had a hidden agenda to promote Easter eggs in return for kickbacks from Cadbury eggs. It's true!

P.S. Try buying Peeps at the grocery store. It looks so awesome microwaving those chickens till they melt.

thethinker
Mar 18th 2008, 08:18 AM
So, let me get this straight. :hmm: Are you saying that I have liberty to do anything else but I do not have liberty to celebrate the feasts God calls His forever? Is that really liberty? And BTW, you don't have a clue about who I am so please get off the high horse and let's just discuss this issue rationally. You know, like people who both know that the other has liberty. :rolleyes: I have absolutely no problem with you or what you choose to do. So, why would you have a problem with my choice? That liberty doesn't count? :hmm:

S2S,
I am not at all saying that you can't observe feasts any way you want. You said that we should to observe them the way you do. Note what you said in reply #24"


I was speaking, however, of the Passover season which Almighty God says we should observe in remembrance of the fact that we were brought out of bondage (sin) by our Mighty God. How can being obedient to God's word, in faith, by wrong? God does not contradict His own word.

Note that you said we "should" observe. This is putting others under the old covenant law when you say "should". You are even suggesting that we who don't observe your way don't have "obedient faith". Furthermore, you said that the old covenant feasts are "forever".

You could not be more mistaken. The Hebrew "olam" should not be translated "forever". When Abraham was circumcised God told him to observe it throughout all generations "to the full consummation of the age". The law commanded that worship occur in Jerusalem "full consummation of the age". Circumcision was not ordained "forever". We know that circumcision was abolished at the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15). Paul said that circumcision avails nothing (Galatians 6).

The woman at the well told Jesus that the Jews say that men "should" worship in Jerusalem. But Jesus replied:

"The hour is coming and now is when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father....God is spirit. They that worship Him MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth".

So we are not bound by your old covenant "oughts" but by new covenant "musts".

The Hebrew "olam" does not mean "forever". It means "to the full consummation of the age". Circumcision and worship in Jerusalem and also ALL THE FEASTS were to continue to THE FULL CONSUMMATION OF THE [OLD COVENANT] AGE. Not "forever" as you say. We are under the new covenant now. Please get with God's new covenant program!

Studyin'2Show
Mar 18th 2008, 01:02 PM
Read it again! ;) I said God said, we should observe forever. What I did not say was HOW any particular person should observe them. There are many people here who say they observe these things in a different spiritual way but that is still forever. The word of God is my final authority in all things and His word NEVER contradicts itself.

Leviticus 23:2 - “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.

Most Christians consider themselves as the spiritual Israel, being grafted in to the tree. But notice, this doesn't even say they are the feasts of Israel. They say they are HIS FEASTS! They are the feasts of our God Most High! I am a child of God Most High and as His child I want to be like my Father. So, whether you observe them spiritually, through Messiah, or both spiritually in Him AND physically......we all should be observing them forever. How do you observe? Is it spiritually, physically, or both? :D

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 18th 2008, 01:05 PM
1 Corinthians 12:25 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=12&verse=25&version=45&context=verse)
So that there should be no division or discord or lack of adaptation [of the parts of the body to each other], but the members all alike should have a mutual interest in and care for one another.

James 4:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=66&chapter=4&verse=1&version=45&context=verse)
WHAT LEADS to strife (discord and feuds) and how do conflicts (quarrels and fightings) originate among you? Do they not arise from your sensual desires that are ever warring in your bodily members?

2 Timothy 2:24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=62&chapter=2&verse=24&version=45&context=verse)
And the servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome (fighting and contending). Instead, he must be kindly to everyone and mild-tempered [preserving the bond of peace]; he must be a skilled and suitable teacher, patient and forbearing and willing to suffer wrong.

1 Timothy 3:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=61&chapter=3&verse=3&version=45&context=verse)
Not given to wine, not combative but gentle and considerate, not quarrelsome but forbearing and peaceable, and not a lover of money [insatiable for wealth and ready to obtain it by questionable means].

Seeker of truth
Mar 18th 2008, 01:21 PM
You are right you have a right to learn this stuff...I never heard of this stuff until I became a member on here...which was in 02 and seeing it every year, it just gets old and its like an attack on our faith. I was very hurt when I first read this stuff actually and felt like some people wanted to do away with us recognizing Jesus in anyway, especially having certain special days set aside such as celebrating His birth, His death and His rising. It was like...ok it was actually Christians doing more to stop our celebrations then atheists actually which made totally no sense to me!

Now I can't go anywhere on the net without seeing this kind of stuff...the atheist love pointing it out to try to undermine our faith and it furthers their cause that the life of Jesus is just a copy of these other pagan gods. This is something I personally battle against quite often actually. So while yes, you have a right to know....just understand why some of us are always so dismayed to see these type of posts. Its not a conspiracy, nor a secret though as the title says. No there is no scriptures that says we have to observe Jesus' birthday...though many did go to honor Him as soon as they could at His birth including the angels...and our whole faith hangs on the Risen Christ...so yea, to say we should just ignore it because of the day its on or because of its name, is making a long forgotten pagan god more powerful over us then Christ...and that would be sad indeed.

God bless

I could not agree more!

Teke
Mar 18th 2008, 01:41 PM
You think that I am being judgmental. But I can see through all of this. Christians are the most prohibitive creatures on the earth. In fact, an elder at my church preached this last Sunday about Christians being too prohibitive. But in the Sunday school hour before that he told a man that cremation is wrong and that Christians should not do it.

The man was struggling because his sister wanted to cremate the body of the loved one. So the elder instead of assuring the man of His liberty in Christ to do what he wants rather tells him that cremation is disrespectful and God would not approve. The man needed a word that set his conscience free but gets a word that burdened his conscience even more.

That elder knows his scriptures friend. Being an elder he was bound not to lie to the man about what scripture shows on how God views such a thing as burning a holy relic such as mankind.


That's what's happening here. Some of you are saying, "We should not observe the passover as we are." We are bound by old covenant law still, the Jewish calendars too".

Some of the world's hatred toward us is legitimate.

You don't have to celebrate the Jewish Passover, and actually you don't have to celebrate anything. The "calendar" in question is in reality the seasons, which have to do with the sun and moon which God created for us to know the seasons by. Apparently Jesus thought we were smart enough to understand this simple concept in relation to agriculture (His creation).

So basically there is no calendar for the movable feasts within the Paschal cycle. IOW there isn't a certain day which is always the same day on our calendars. The cycle depends on the created order God established. So the Jewish Passover and the Christian feast of Pascha (Resurrection) are what is known as "movable feasts". Meaning you can't base them on a certain day of a calendar.

Our western calendars don't reflect the churches feasts. You have to find out from the church, not a calendar.

Teke
Mar 18th 2008, 01:59 PM
Thank you for understanding! Its nice when someone does. Having grown up easter egg hunting and dying the eggs and writing Jesus' Name on them and being told the new life that comes from these eggs is like the new life Jesus gives us..


Hi Moonglow,
You know it always amazes me that there are Christians who are more educated on pagan things than on Christian things. When I taught my children it was about Christian things and not about pagan things.

Dying eggs is an ethnic tradition passed onto us Americans through our ethnic heritage with other nations. It is quite interesting for Christian children to learn about these things, so they aren't influenced by lesser educated Christians about their faith.

Food is an integral part of our lives and humanity has used it in many ways to relate beliefs. Especially bread, there are many ethnic practices with bread. But about the eggs. My church continues a Christian tradition passed onto us by the ethnic Russian Christian church (and there are others as well). For more than a century it has been a tradition to dye eggs the color red for Pascha. In ancient times they didn't have food coloring like we do, so they used onions and boiled the eggs in with the onions which turned the eggs a deep dark red color. They were brought to church on the early morning of Pascha (Resurrection feast of the church) and after the service, during fellowship, Christians would take the egg and hold it up to whomever they were addressing and state "Christ is risen!", to which the other would reply "Truly He is Risen!" and they would take the eggs and crack them against each other, symbolizing Christ's victory over death. It is a joyous occasion for all.

It is up to Christians parents to teach and raise their children in the faith. It is not the worlds duty. The secular world doesn't teach Christ, the Church does.:)

xSTEADFASTx
Mar 18th 2008, 02:01 PM
heard this for what seems like ages; its not salvation ending circumstances.

thethinker
Mar 18th 2008, 04:25 PM
That elder knows his scriptures friend. Being an elder he was bound not to lie to the man about what scripture shows on how God views such a thing as burning a holy relic such as mankind.

You say that the elder "knows his Scriptures" but you don't give the Scripture. The reason some Christians disdain cremation is because they fear that God can't give them a resurrection body if it is cremated. Yet the body is eaten by the bugs anyway.

God Himself commits the body to the bugs as food for them and then says "Don't cremate, that's disrespectful"?

Anti cremation is not about what's right. It's about FEAR!

Teke
Mar 18th 2008, 04:42 PM
You say that the elder "knows his Scriptures" but you don't give the Scripture. The reason some Christians disdain cremation is because they fear that God can't give them a resurrection body if it is cremated. Yet the body is eaten by the bugs anyway.

God Himself commits the body to the bugs as food for them and then says "Don't cremate, that's disrespectful"?

Anti cremation is not about what's right. It's about FEAR!

Well if you cremate the body then what does God's bugs eat......do you care....

The reason I said the elder knows his scripture, is because the scriptures speak of how God views such a thing. The scriptures do not plainly state to not burn a body. Scripture does support, the body is a relic of God. Burning holy relics was never a practice of early Christians (they actually met in graveyards) nor of Judaism. The body has always been treated with respect.

Rather than repost all the scriptures, Here (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=87554&highlight=cremation) is a link to a thread on cremation, and there's another link in that thread with more scripture. And if that is not enough, I can post more scriptures. :)

thethinker
Mar 18th 2008, 04:57 PM
Well if you cremate the body then what does God's bugs eat......do you care....

The reason I said the elder knows his scripture, is because the scriptures speak of how God views such a thing. The scriptures do not plainly state to not burn a body. Scripture does support, the body is a relic of God. Burning holy relics was never a practice of early Christians (they actually met in graveyards) nor of Judaism. The body has always been treated with respect.

Rather than repost all the scriptures, Here (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=87554&highlight=cremation) is a link to a thread on cremation, and there's another link in that thread with more scripture. And if that is not enough, I can post more scriptures. :)

Teke,
For the second tome now you have offered no Scriptural proof for your prohibition on cremation. When it gets right down to it the cremation issue is a matter of FEAR. And fear should NEVER have a part in the interpretation of the Bible!

Teke
Mar 18th 2008, 05:05 PM
Teke,
For the second tome now you have offered no Scriptural proof for your prohibition on cremation. When it gets right down to it the cremation issue is a matter of FEAR. And fear should NEVER have a part in the interpretation of the Bible!

I've given plenty of scripture on how God views it. You take your own view.
And,
Yep:yes:, it's a matter of fear, holy fear of God.:yes: You won't catch me burning His relics.

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 18th 2008, 05:07 PM
Well if you cremate the body then what does God's bugs eat......do you care....

The reason I said the elder knows his scripture, is because the scriptures speak of how God views such a thing. The scriptures do not plainly state to not burn a body. Scripture does support, the body is a relic of God. Burning holy relics was never a practice of early Christians (they actually met in graveyards) nor of Judaism. The body has always been treated with respect.

Rather than repost all the scriptures, Here (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=87554&highlight=cremation) is a link to a thread on cremation, and there's another link in that thread with more scripture. And if that is not enough, I can post more scriptures. :)

I'd like to see those.

IN CONTEXT

Personally, I find nothing in the bible forbidding cremation, and I feel that you're reaching to find them. I've read all the links, and thus far no one has presented anything on it as compelling.

thethinker
Mar 18th 2008, 05:13 PM
I've given plenty of scripture on how God views it. You take your own view.
And,
Yep:yes:, it's a matter of fear, holy fear of God.:yes: You won't catch me burning His relics.

People protect relics. They guard to preserve their relics. Yet God allows the bugs to consume His relics. Go figure. :confused

diffangle
Mar 18th 2008, 05:14 PM
Are there any examples of anyone being cremated in the Scriptures or was everyone buried?

Teke
Mar 18th 2008, 05:19 PM
I'd like to see those.

IN CONTEXT

Personally, I find nothing in the bible forbidding cremation, and I feel that you're reaching to find them. I've read all the links, and thus far no one has presented anything on it as compelling.

Hey, put God to the test if you want to.
You won't find anything in the bible teaching people to burn each other up at death. So where does that leave one. I'm going to go with God's view on it.;)

Teke
Mar 18th 2008, 05:24 PM
People protect relics. They guard to preserve their relics. Yet God allows the bugs to consume His relics. Go figure. :confused

Yeah, His created order might not make any sense to us, but it likely does to Him. ;)

If certain restrictions weren't in place on this board I'd go into even more detail on how guarded and protected relics actually are in the Church. And the Christians affair with death......history speaks for itself.

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 18th 2008, 06:49 PM
Hey, put God to the test if you want to.
You won't find anything in the bible teaching people to burn each other up at death. So where does that leave one. I'm going to go with God's view on it.;)

So, the very scriptures you said you COULD post you CAN'T as long as context is called for.

Gotcha.

Heck of a debate tactic you have there. Sounds like CNN.

Ninna
Mar 18th 2008, 07:18 PM
Controversial Issues is a more suitable forum for this topic.

obeytheword
Mar 18th 2008, 07:19 PM
I find it interesting that many very debatable points tend to be so polarizing - and the tone ends up either rather hateful or sarcastic or both.

Regardless - I do not believe a case can be made that there is a strict prohibition outlawing cremation. I also see exactly zero examples of it being an approved method.

So we are left with conjecture and looking at a bigger picture. I believe Teke has rather valid points, that the body should be treated with respect as the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are not our own, we WERE BOUGHT - and the price was rather high.

Scripture has no examples of it being ok, and has at least implied reasons for it being something that is not too good.

So - if the above is true, we are left with the question.

Is cremation treating the body disrespectfully?

I would tend to say yes - but I am sure others will disagree.

Be Blessed!

Teke
Mar 18th 2008, 07:57 PM
So, the very scriptures you said you COULD post you CAN'T as long as context is called for.

Gotcha.

Heck of a debate tactic you have there. Sounds like CNN.

Hey, you must not know me, I can debate till ........;)

The scriptures are in their context. But, for the sake of reasoning, how about you comment on some of them (even though this is off topic of this thread, and you could have commented in one of the threads I posted links on).

Like this one,

Amo 2:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away [the punishment] thereof; because he burned the bones of the king of Edom into lime:

Studyin'2Show
Mar 18th 2008, 08:25 PM
Wow! So, this turned from an easter/Passover thread to a cremation debate? :hmm: What a strange twist. :lol:

RoadWarrior
Mar 18th 2008, 09:07 PM
Wow! So, this turned from an easter/Passover thread to a cremation debate? :hmm: What a strange twist. :lol:

I think this is what is called "hijacking a thread" !

Follow_Me_Infantry
Mar 18th 2008, 09:44 PM
Wow! So, this turned from an easter/Passover thread to a cremation debate? :hmm: What a strange twist. :lol:

I am at least partly, if not mostly, responsible for that.

I offer my apologies.

diffangle
Mar 18th 2008, 09:54 PM
Wow! So, this turned from an easter/Passover thread to a cremation debate? :hmm: What a strange twist. :lol:
Yeah... I thought the same thing. :lol: We really know how to go off on a tangent don't we? :spin:

Revinius
Mar 22nd 2008, 05:57 AM
I, for one, like the fact that we can steal the pagans festivals and dedicate them to the one true thing worth worshipping.

Studyin'2Show
Mar 22nd 2008, 01:19 PM
I, for one, like the fact that we can steal the pagans festivals and dedicate them to the one true thing worth worshipping.
I seem to remember a time in biblical history when a child of God stole things from the pagans.

Joshua 7:19-21
19 Now Joshua said to Achan, “My son, I beg you, give glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to Him, and tell me now what you have done; do not hide it from me.”
20 And Achan answered Joshua and said, “Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and this is what I have done: 21 When I saw among the spoils a beautiful Babylonian garment, two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold weighing fifty shekels, I coveted them and took them. And there they are, hidden in the earth in the midst of my tent, with the silver under it.”

It didn't work out too well then so I'll leave the pagan things where they are. ;)

God Bless!

Revinius
Mar 22nd 2008, 01:43 PM
I seem to remember a time in biblical history when a child of God stole things from the pagans.

Joshua 7:19-21
19 Now Joshua said to Achan, “My son, I beg you, give glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to Him, and tell me now what you have done; do not hide it from me.”
20 And Achan answered Joshua and said, “Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and this is what I have done: 21 When I saw among the spoils a beautiful Babylonian garment, two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold weighing fifty shekels, I coveted them and took them. And there they are, hidden in the earth in the midst of my tent, with the silver under it.”

It didn't work out too well then so I'll leave the pagan things where they are. ;)

God Bless!

Well its no longer pagan for us is it? Also, you fail in regards to context. Achan was seeking things for himself, we should only be seeking the Lord's glory. The only true worth in this world is in him and turning things like Christmas (winter solstice festival) and Easter from their corruptive roots to a celebration for his glory is something that would be pleasing in aroma to him.

diffangle
Mar 22nd 2008, 02:04 PM
I, for one, like the fact that we can steal the pagans festivals and dedicate them to the one true thing worth worshipping.


YHWH doesn't like to be worshipped in the same manner the pagans worship their gods...

Deut 12

29 When YHWH thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;

30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

31 Thou shalt not do so unto YHWH thy God: for every abomination to YHWH, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

RoadWarrior
Mar 22nd 2008, 03:12 PM
Well its no longer pagan for us is it? Also, you fail in regards to context. Achan was seeking things for himself, we should only be seeking the Lord's glory. The only true worth in this world is in him and turning things like Christmas (winter solstice festival) and Easter from their corruptive roots to a celebration for his glory is something that would be pleasing in aroma to him.

If only it had really worked out that way! But what is predominant in the newspaper, the advertisements in the paper, etc, for this season?

It isn't about Jesus, is it?

It is easy to say we should only be seeking the Lord's glory, but it is much more difficult to see that played out in real life. Even Christian friends ask me, "What are you doing for Easter?" - or for "Christmas?" etc.

So, Rev, please share. How do you celebrate this holiday to glorify the Lord? What are you doing for Easter?

pnewton
Mar 22nd 2008, 03:36 PM
I used to attend a Church that met in a strip mall. The store that was converted to the church was a former women's clothing store. No doubt it was a center for many for the sins of vanity and greed. I know one man who has a mission of shutting down abortion clinics and building prayer chapels on the sites. Turning that which is evil into the good is as old as Christianity. Can anyone forget Paul's great sermon in Athens at the altar of the unknown God? When I worship this Easter, no part of me will be concerned about pagan deities or Babylonian mystery religion speculation. I will only be worshipping the victory of the resurrection!

diffangle
Mar 22nd 2008, 03:44 PM
[quote=pnewton;1580906]I used to attend a Church that met in a strip mall. The store that was converted to the church was a former women's clothing store. No doubt it was a center for many for the sins of vanity and greed.
YHWH probably wants us to wear clothes. :lol: Did the church that opened in its place continue to sell clothes?


I know one man who has a mission of shutting down abortion clinics and building prayer chapels on the sites.
Did the prayer chapels adopt the practice of abortion and call it worship to YHWH?



Turning that which is evil into the good is as old as Christianity. Can anyone forget Paul's great sermon in Athens at the altar of the unknown God? When I worship this Easter, no part of me will be concerned about pagan deities or Babylonian mystery religion speculation. I will only be worshipping the victory of the resurrection!

Will you have any fertility symbols(eggs, bunnies) or pig-eating for tammuz happening in your worship of the resurrection?

Studyin'2Show
Mar 22nd 2008, 04:42 PM
I used to attend a Church that met in a strip mall. The store that was converted to the church was a former women's clothing store. No doubt it was a center for many for the sins of vanity and greed. I know one man who has a mission of shutting down abortion clinics and building prayer chapels on the sites. Turning that which is evil into the good is as old as Christianity. Can anyone forget Paul's great sermon in Athens at the altar of the unknown God? When I worship this Easter, no part of me will be concerned about pagan deities or Babylonian mystery religion speculation. I will only be worshipping the victory of the resurrection!The 'places' are not the issue. The whole Promised Land was FULL of pagans. God didn't have a problem with His people going in to the places and taking over. What He DID have a problem with was His people taking up the PRACTICES of the pagans. Very different.

God Bless!

Revinius
Mar 22nd 2008, 05:39 PM
YHWH doesn't like to be worshipped in the same manner the pagans worship their gods...

Deut 12

29 When YHWH thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;

30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

31 Thou shalt not do so unto YHWH thy God: for every abomination to YHWH, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Ok so taking their festival, killing it, then taking those days and dedicating them to a completely different and entirely Holy purpose. How is that worshipping God like a pagan?

Revinius
Mar 22nd 2008, 05:48 PM
If only it had really worked out that way! But what is predominant in the newspaper, the advertisements in the paper, etc, for this season?

It isn't about Jesus, is it?

It is easy to say we should only be seeking the Lord's glory, but it is much more difficult to see that played out in real life. Even Christian friends ask me, "What are you doing for Easter?" - or for "Christmas?" etc.

So, Rev, please share. How do you celebrate this holiday to glorify the Lord? What are you doing for Easter?

The sin of the world takes what is holy and pleasing to God and makes it sinful. Thats pretty much an accurate description of sin, taking what is a gift of God and using it for a purpose in which it was not originally intended. Its natural to find the corruption in pretty much all that was once sacred or holy, in fact it worries me that i am no longer surprised by the lows i see in culture. The bottom line is though that we are here to live a difference, to be the beacon of light that the nation of israel was meant to be, so lets get in there and get stuck in. The unbelievers shall know us by how we live.

How do i personally celebrate Easter? I do try my best to give it up to the lord. I basically take my sabbath day and extend it over the weekend. I try and connect myself to the deeper meaning of the life i have been called to live. I took the Lords supper tonight at church and spent much time deep in thought and prayer. Over the whole weekend, aswell as spiritual contemplation i do my best to witness to those around me, be that friends and family, people i know online or are recently new to church.

I dont think Easter should be seen as a holiday but rather a call to arms. It symbolises an invitation to the wedding feast with which we have been promised and the urgent desire that should be aching within the hardest of hearts. Its a celebration of the reunification of man with God.

How about you brother, how do you live your life on Easter?

amazzin
Mar 22nd 2008, 06:08 PM
Easter Conspiracy: What the Church is NOT telling you about Easter & Passover

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_m9so55FA

Have you ever thought about where the word "Easter" comes from?
The Britannica Encyclopedia (1934) states:

“EASTER (es’ter). Ostara, or Eastre, was the goddess of Spring in the religion of the ancient Angles and Saxons. Every April a festival was celebrated in her honor. With the beginnings of Christianity, the old gods were put aside. From then on the festival was celebrated in honor of the resurrection of Christ, but was still known as Easter after the old goddess.”

Dictionary.com tells us:

http://dictionary.reference.com/features/easter.html

"Rabbits were part of pre-Christian fertility lore and symbolized the abundance of new life associated with Spring. The ancient German goddess Ostara (called Eostre in Anglo-Saxon) was accompanied by a hare, which may have been the precursor of the modern Easter Bunny."
Christiananswers.net explains:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t020.html

"Basically, almost every vile, profane and idolatrous practice you can think of originated at Babel with Queen Semiramis, the Mother Goddess and Nimrod. As the people scattered from Babel with their different languages, they, of course, used different names for Nimrod (Tammuz) and Semiramis. Some called the Mother Goddess “ISHTAR” (originally pronounced “Easter”). In other lands, she was called Eostre, Astarte, Ostera, and Eastre. Other names for Semiramis, the Mother Goddess include: Wife of Baal, Ashtaroth or Ashtoreth, and Queen of Heaven. The Mother goddess was frequently worshipped as the goddess of fertility - and as a sort of Mother Nature and goddess of Spring and sexual love and birth. She was also worshipped as a mediator between god and man. Sexual orgies and temple prostitutes were often used in her worship and in attempting to gain her favor."

So why do you celebrate a holiday named for a pagan fertility goddess that used eggs and bunny rabbits as fertility symbols before Jesus even came?

You do realize that "Easter" was celebrated before Jesus, right?

Why do you not celebrate the holiday that prophesied the death of the Messiah, that actually occurred during the time when the Messiah died and rose again, and that the Messiah actually instructed us to "do this in remembrance of me"?

Why do you not celebrate the holiday that Jesus himself celebrated, and that Jesus will celebrate once again when He returns to this earth? (See Ezekiel 45-46)

If you do not know about Passover and what the Bible has to say about it, then you REALLY need to see this shocking YouTube film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S_m9so55FA


WOW what a great revelation. What a huge conspiracy! You have opened up my enlightenment. Now pardon me as I go and strip myself of all I have learned about Christ and submitt to the greater cause............................................. .NOT!

RoadWarrior
Mar 22nd 2008, 06:13 PM
...

How about you brother, how do you live your life on Easter?

It's sister, but that's ok, I realize people are confused by my warrior status. :hug:

I gave up the celebrations of C&E some years ago. I got set free from all the cooking and baskets and eggs and bunnies and candy. Those two dates on the calendar are to me now, the same as all the other dates. And I seek to live every day as worship to Him. Just today I was thinking of my prayer life/thought life. In my early walk, I would occasionally remember to "think" a prayer to Him - Now I consider all of my thoughts to be prayers to Him. He hears every thought I have, and instead of conversing with myself in my head, I converse with Him.

I like what S2S wrote:


The 'places' are not the issue. The whole Promised Land was FULL of pagans. God didn't have a problem with His people going in to the places and taking over. What He DID have a problem with was His people taking up the PRACTICES of the pagans. Very different.
God Bless!

It was those practices - the eggs and bunnies and baskets, and having a ham for dinner - that were leaven to me.

Unfortunately, I have trouble separating the Christian ceremonies in the church today from that leaven. So when the C&E dates come around, I tend to retreat into my own home and spend more time with Him. When it is over, I come back out and go on with my daily walk.

This year, oddly enough, the Christian Good Friday concided with Purim, (not Passover!) so I watched "One Night with the King" on Thursday night, and thought about Esther over the last few days. The king granted to Mordecai and Esther that while the first law could not be changed, a new law could be made, that they could fight back against the enemy who wanted to anihilate their entire people-group. And it occurred to me that Jesus has done the same for us; He has given us the right to fight against the enemy who enslaved us, and wants to destroy us.

Passover will be on April 20th this year, and I am looking forward to that celebration. Many of the churches around me do have seder teachings, and even seder meals. I plan to participate in that and get into a deeper understanding of what was underlying the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus on that historic Passover.

diffangle
Mar 22nd 2008, 06:28 PM
Ok so taking their festival, killing it, then taking those days and dedicating them to a completely different and entirely Holy purpose. How is that worshipping God like a pagan?
There was no "killing" them... they were merged/adopted/Christianized as described in Deut 12.

Christmas- trees(Jer. 10), wreaths(sun symbols), birthday celebration(sun god birth), gift giving(Odin the gift-giving elf), yule logs(offered to Thor), mistletoe, magical reindeer, etc.

Easter- goddess Ishtar, eggs and bunnies(fertility symbols), ham eating(revenge for tammuz being killed by a boar), lent(40 days of weeping for tammuz representing the 40 years of his life), hot cross buns(cakes to the queen of heaven-Jer. 7:18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jer/Jer007.html#18)), sunrise service(east facing honoring the resurrection of the sun god tammuz- Eze. 8:13-18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eze&chapter=8&verse=13&version=kjv#13)).

YoungLink
Mar 22nd 2008, 09:41 PM
I read something earlier today that said there is nothing biblical behind celebrating Christ's birth or resurrection, but those are the two days with a "Christian holiday", I'd never really thought about that before.
God gave us Passover to remember his death and the Feast of Trumpets to look forward to his return, and these are often overlooked.

Revinius
Mar 23rd 2008, 03:59 AM
It's sister, but that's ok, I realize people are confused by my warrior status. :hug:

I gave up the celebrations of C&E some years ago. I got set free from all the cooking and baskets and eggs and bunnies and candy. Those two dates on the calendar are to me now, the same as all the other dates. And I seek to live every day as worship to Him. Just today I was thinking of my prayer life/thought life. In my early walk, I would occasionally remember to "think" a prayer to Him - Now I consider all of my thoughts to be prayers to Him. He hears every thought I have, and instead of conversing with myself in my head, I converse with Him.

I like what S2S wrote:



It was those practices - the eggs and bunnies and baskets, and having a ham for dinner - that were leaven to me.

Unfortunately, I have trouble separating the Christian ceremonies in the church today from that leaven. So when the C&E dates come around, I tend to retreat into my own home and spend more time with Him. When it is over, I come back out and go on with my daily walk.

This year, oddly enough, the Christian Good Friday concided with Purim, (not Passover!) so I watched "One Night with the King" on Thursday night, and thought about Esther over the last few days. The king granted to Mordecai and Esther that while the first law could not be changed, a new law could be made, that they could fight back against the enemy who wanted to anihilate their entire people-group. And it occurred to me that Jesus has done the same for us; He has given us the right to fight against the enemy who enslaved us, and wants to destroy us.

Passover will be on April 20th this year, and I am looking forward to that celebration. Many of the churches around me do have seder teachings, and even seder meals. I plan to participate in that and get into a deeper understanding of what was underlying the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus on that historic Passover.

Thats cool, as far as all that bunny junk is concerned i view it simply as chocolate for its own sake. If someone wants to give me chocolate, they gotta hear about Jesus first :P

Revinius
Mar 23rd 2008, 04:02 AM
There was no "killing" them... they were merged/adopted/Christianized as described in Deut 12.

Christmas- trees(Jer. 10), wreaths(sun symbols), birthday celebration(sun god birth), gift giving(Odin the gift-giving elf), yule logs(offered to Thor), mistletoe, magical reindeer, etc.

Easter- goddess Ishtar, eggs and bunnies(fertility symbols), ham eating(revenge for tammuz being killed by a boar), lent(40 days of weeping for tammuz representing the 40 years of his life), hot cross buns(cakes to the queen of heaven-Jer. 7:18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jer/Jer007.html#18)), sunrise service(east facing honoring the resurrection of the sun god tammuz- Eze. 8:13-18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eze&chapter=8&verse=13&version=kjv#13)).

But if they have no semblance to what they once were then are they not dead? The commercialisation we see to day is Pagan only in the sense that its a corruption of the foundations which the church built on top. It doesnt take away from the fact we can worship Jesus and celebrate his death and resurrection.

markedward
Mar 23rd 2008, 05:05 AM
Why do you not celebrate the holiday that prophesied the death of the Messiah, that actually occurred during the time when the Messiah died and rose again, and that the Messiah actually instructed us to "do this in remembrance of me"?

Why do you not celebrate the holiday that Jesus himself celebrated, and that Jesus will celebrate once again when He returns to this earth?I have a question: do you call the days of the week as most people do? That is, Monday, Tuesday, and so on?

Monday was named for Mani, the Norse god of the moon.
Tuesday was named for Tyr, Norse god of war.
Wednesday was named for Woden, the Germanic equivalent to Odin, the Norse chief-god.
Thursday was named for Thor, Norse god of thunder.
Friday was named for Frigg, the Norse chief-goddess.
Saturday was named for Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture (or, if one chooses to derive it from the Norse-theme, it came from Surtur, lord of the fire-giants).

How about the months?

January was named for Janus, Roman god of new beginnings.
February was named for an ancient Roman purification ritual.
March was named for Mars, the Roman god of war.
May was probably named for Maia, Greek goddess of fertility.
June was named for Juno, Roman goddess of marriages.
July was named for Julius Caesar, who was deified by the ancient Romans.
August was named for Augustus Caesar, who was deified by the ancient Romans.

If you're going to call out for people to stop using "Easter" to refer to the time of Jesus' Passover sacrifice simply because "Easter" was once named for a pagan goddess, then you ought to stop using the names of the days and the names of the months that we use now as well, because many of them were named so for the very same reasons.

Personally, I refer to the event we celebrate as Passover, but I don't look down upon people who call it "Easter." I don't perpetuate myths like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, but I won't condemn my fellow Christians who may choose to take part in the goofiness. For instance, I think as long as the focus of the day as a whole stays on Jesus, I see no harm in a bit of fun such as an "easter egg hunt" for the kids.

The main point I can make is: be consistent with your "don't use pagan words" campaign. Calling the day "Easter" is no more wrongful than it is to call the first month "January." Taking up the pagan practices, however, anyone can agree would be wrong, and while I personally think getting our children to believe in a magical rabbit is wrongful because it is deceiving, what is so inherently sinful about hiding a few little plastic balls with candy in them?

Studyin'2Show
Mar 23rd 2008, 12:12 PM
We are speaking the glorious resurrection of our Lord and Savior. I don't understand why it is not called 'Resurrection Day'. If someone could explain to me what the word 'easter' means biblically that might make it different. Now, for the record, I do not look down on anyone who calls it easter. For 35 years of my life that's what I called it because i knew no better. How hypocritical of me would it be for me to judge someone else? What I don't understand is why when believers learn of what the NAME means, they still consider to use the name of a fertility goddess to refer to the holy resurrection of Yeshua. :dunno: I just don't understand that.

The days of the week are common. The months of the year are common. I much prefer to use the numbers of the days and the term Sabbath, and I would much prefer to use the biblical calendar months. Currently it is the 15th of Adar. Unfortunately, the world in general would not understand because the world has rejected this way (as the world has - on the whole - rejected the things of God). So, yes, I am stuck living IN the world though not being OF it. For the time being, at least, because I believe Messiah will bring back the biblical way. But we are not speaking of simply a common day or month, we are discussing a most holy act of Messiah.


Do I wish believers would consider more seriously such things? Absolutely! Do I judge them if they don't? Not at all! It would just be nice if all the advertising circulars today said something about the resurrection of our Lord and did not simply proclaim just another goddess' name. :(

God Bless!

diffangle
Mar 23rd 2008, 02:15 PM
But if they have no semblance to what they once were then are they not dead?
There is semblance... there are still all those things I mentioned in my previous post practiced with the holidays. Also, isn't it interesting that easter is a month before the Passover and will never fall on the same day as Passover?

diffangle
Mar 23rd 2008, 02:32 PM
I have a question: do you call the days of the week as most people do? That is, Monday, Tuesday, and so on?

Monday was named for Mani, the Norse god of the moon.
Tuesday was named for Tyr, Norse god of war.
Wednesday was named for Woden, the Germanic equivalent to Odin, the Norse chief-god.
Thursday was named for Thor, Norse god of thunder.
Friday was named for Frigg, the Norse chief-goddess.
Saturday was named for Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture (or, if one chooses to derive it from the Norse-theme, it came from Surtur, lord of the fire-giants).

How about the months?

January was named for Janus, Roman god of new beginnings.
February was named for an ancient Roman purification ritual.
March was named for Mars, the Roman god of war.
May was probably named for Maia, Greek goddess of fertility.
June was named for Juno, Roman goddess of marriages.
July was named for Julius Caesar, who was deified by the ancient Romans.
August was named for Augustus Caesar, who was deified by the ancient Romans.

If you're going to call out for people to stop using "Easter" to refer to the time of Jesus' Passover sacrifice simply because "Easter" was once named for a pagan goddess, then you ought to stop using the names of the days and the names of the months that we use now as well, because many of them were named so for the very same reasons.

Personally, I refer to the event we celebrate as Passover, but I don't look down upon people who call it "Easter." I don't perpetuate myths like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, but I won't condemn my fellow Christians who may choose to take part in the goofiness. For instance, I think as long as the focus of the day as a whole stays on Jesus, I see no harm in a bit of fun such as an "easter egg hunt" for the kids.

The main point I can make is: be consistent with your "don't use pagan words" campaign. Calling the day "Easter" is no more wrongful than it is to call the first month "January." Taking up the pagan practices, however, anyone can agree would be wrong, and while I personally think getting our children to believe in a magical rabbit is wrongful because it is deceiving, what is so inherently sinful about hiding a few little plastic balls with candy in them?
Were there particular practices the pagans did every mon. for their moon god? If so, tell me what they were and I promise not to adopt that practice as worship to YHWH. Was there a practice they did on tues. to their war god? If so, tell me and I promise not to adopt that practice as worship to YHWH. Same goes for the rest of the days and months... if there was a worship practice to other gods linked to those days/months, then I want to know so I don't knowingly adopt those practices and relabel them as worship to YHWH.

Btw, in my appt. book for work, I don't write the names of the days or months... I use all numbers. I only use the names of the week/months when discussing them with others, just as I use the word easter with those who observe it... doesn't mean I participate in their easter celebrations.

Revinius
Mar 23rd 2008, 02:35 PM
There is semblance... there are still all those things I mentioned in my previous post practiced with the holidays. Also, isn't it interesting that easter is a month before the Passover and will never fall on the same day as Passover?

OOOOOOOoooooo :o conspiracy theory!

Could....could it be the CIA is behind it!

you make me lol. :rofl:

just kidding, i love you :hug:

diffangle
Mar 23rd 2008, 02:38 PM
just kidding, i love you :hug:
Same to you dear. :kiss:

Clavicula_Nox
Mar 23rd 2008, 03:24 PM
Were there particular practices the pagans did every mon. for their moon god? If so, tell me what they were and I promise not to adopt that practice as worship to YHWH. Was there a practice they did on tues. to their war god? If so, tell me and I promise not to adopt that practice as worship to YHWH. Same goes for the rest of the days and months... if there was a worship practice to other gods linked to those days/months, then I want to know so I don't knowingly adopt those practices and relabel them as worship to YHWH.

Btw, in my appt. book for work, I don't write the names of the days or months... I use all numbers. I only use the names of the week/months when discussing them with others, just I use the word easter with those who observe it... doesn't mean I participate in their easter celebrations.

No, the germanic religions did not have a rigidily structured form of rote worship like we do. They had certain festivals, but there were no "holy men" or rituals outside of individual practices. Saturn is different, the romans observed Saturnalia, but I'm sure you are in no danger of repeating anything from that festival. And lastly, no norse/dane/jute/aengle/saexeman would ever utter a kind word to Surtr, so not much there.

For what it's worth, I agree with you.

markedward
Mar 23rd 2008, 07:44 PM
I already stated that anything resembling the pagan practices should be put off, but one of the main points of the thread was not to call the event we celebrate as "Easter" simply because it was once used as the name of a pagan goddess. This particular point is completely inconsistent because many people (including the OP, I'm sure) call the days of the week and the months of the year after pagan gods. I didn't say we should all go out and do what the pagans did on those days, what I said was if someone is going to present "Don't call it Easter because the name is a pagan goddess" as a key point, then they should at least be consistent about it.

Again, simply calling the day "Easter" is no more wrongful than calling the first month "January," so using this as an anchor point for the argument is likely to be inconsistent.

Revinius
Mar 24th 2008, 04:52 AM
I already stated that anything resembling the pagan practices should be put off, but one of the main points of the thread was not to call the event we celebrate as "Easter" simply because it was once used as the name of a pagan goddess. This particular point is completely inconsistent because many people (including the OP, I'm sure) call the days of the week and the months of the year after pagan gods. I didn't say we should all go out and do what the pagans did on those days, what I said was if someone is going to present "Don't call it Easter because the name is a pagan goddess" as a key point, then they should at least be consistent about it.

Again, simply calling the day "Easter" is no more wrongful than calling the first month "January," so using this as an anchor point for the argument is likely to be inconsistent.

Or telling someone they have been 'fortunate' (remembering the route of the word is the Roman goddess 'fortuna')

Studyin'2Show
Mar 24th 2008, 10:24 AM
Why not call it Resurrection Day? Why would any believer want to have the name of the festival to celebrate our Lord's resurrection having nothing to do with Him but having to do with a fertility goddess? I just don't get it. :dunno:

Eaglenester
Mar 24th 2008, 01:34 PM
Why not call it Resurrection Day? Why would any believer want to have the name of the festival to celebrate our Lord's resurrection having nothing to do with Him but having to do with a fertility goddess? I just don't get it. :dunno:

Why not call it what Elohim named it.
Yahushua Messiah was sacrificed on Passover and rose on First Fruits.

It's right there in Scripture, so why call it something other than what Elohim called it?

Why has christianity ignored Scripture and the Almighty Creator; and in it's place picked up a pagan holiday?

One CAN NOT begin to fully understand the death and resurrection of Messiah without looking at The Feasts of Yahweh: Passover, Unleavened Bread & First Fruits.

And people,don't give me the old tired line about "they are Jewish feasts"

Scripture, thus Elohim, calls them The Feasts of Yahweh

They are types and shadows of Messiah and prophetic to what was to and will happen.

Look to Scripture people, instead of defiled traditions of men that mislead and deceive.

Teke
Mar 24th 2008, 02:07 PM
Also, isn't it interesting that easter is a month before the Passover and will never fall on the same day as Passover?

My Pascha (Easter) isn't the month before the Jewish Passover. It is set according to the Apostles canons. (canon VII, which states that it is to be after the Jewish Passover, following the vernal equinox).

That pagan practices happened in time is another subject, the association of ritual and time in relation to the human condition. An inseparable aspect.

diffangle
Mar 24th 2008, 02:18 PM
My Pascha (Easter) isn't the month before the Jewish Passover. It is set according to the Apostles canons. (canon VII, which states that it is to be after the Jewish Passover, following the vernal equinox).

That pagan practices happened in time is another subject, the association of ritual and time in relation to the human condition. An inseparable aspect.
So your easter will never fall on Passover either?

Studyin'2Show
Mar 24th 2008, 02:22 PM
Why not call it what Elohim named it.
Yahushua Messiah was sacrificed on Passover and rose on First Fruits.

It's right there in Scripture, so why call it something other than what Elohim called it?

Why has christianity ignored Scripture and the Almighty Creator; and in it's place picked up a pagan holiday?

One CAN NOT begin to fully understand the death and resurrection of Messiah without looking at The Feasts of Yahweh: Passover, Unleavened Bread & First Fruits.

And people,don't give me the old tired line about "they are Jewish feasts"

Scripture, thus Elohim, calls them The Feasts of Yahweh

They are types and shadows of Messiah and prophetic to what was to and will happen.

Look to Scripture people, instead of defiled traditions of men that mislead and deceive.You're preaching to the choir, dude! :D I'm not referring to Passover. My family and I do not celebrate easter, we will be observing the Passover and the Feast of First Fruits next month. I am referring to the day set aside where many believers say it is to remember and honor Yeshua Messiah's resurrection. I do not understand why if this Christian festival is truly about our Savior, why does the name not signify that.

God Bless!

BTW, I like your hair! :lol:

Teke
Mar 24th 2008, 02:34 PM
So your easter will never fall on Passover either?

Can't happen according to the Apostles, it follows Jewish Passover.;)

Now because it's not a fixed day (nor is Passover a fixed date), it can fall, occasionally (a couple years ago it did), on the same day as the Gregorian calendar's date for Easter.

Eaglenester
Mar 24th 2008, 04:05 PM
You're preaching to the choir, dude! :D I'm not referring to Passover. My family and I do not celebrate easter, we will be observing the Passover and the Feast of First Fruits next month. I am referring to the day set aside where many believers say it is to remember and honor Yeshua Messiah's resurrection. I do not understand why if this Christian festival is truly about our Savior, why does the name not signify that.

God Bless!

BTW, I like your hair! :lol:

I knew you kept the Feasts of Yahweh from seeing other posts of yours, I was just using your post to bring the Feasts in.

That's why I used the term people.

My hair was from when I was in Africa (Ivory Coast) and some of the locals I was discipling had my hair done up like that.

What many christians don't realize is that easter is a form of replacement theology - replacing that which is of Elohim with practices and traditions of men.

Revinius
Mar 24th 2008, 04:29 PM
Replacement theology? Theologically we dont need any festivals at all. But we do. Why cant we all just make the most of the opportunity we have been given by God to glorify him on these days in particular? If anything it would highlight him more from the materialistic mentality of the time. We are to live the difference Christ calls us to live and what better a time to show that than when the world is going nuts for chocolate or presents?

Studyin'2Show
Mar 24th 2008, 05:08 PM
My hair was from when I was in Africa (Ivory Coast) and some of the locals I was discipling had my hair done up like that.We become all things to all men in order to win some! :D

God Bless!

IPet2_9
Mar 24th 2008, 06:26 PM
I noticed the grocery stores have marked down Easter candy 40-50% today, and probably more later in the week. My family has decided that we're, um, convicted that we should observe Easter according to the Jewish calendar this year. Yeah, that's it. I think I'll go to the grocery store and, uh, prepare for Easter tomorrow. We're going to be REALLY prepared, too. Two shopping carts at 75% off worth of prepared.

:hmm:

Studyin'2Show
Mar 24th 2008, 06:59 PM
I'm holding out for the 90% off! :lol:

YoungLink
Mar 24th 2008, 07:42 PM
Replacement theology? Theologically we dont need any festivals at all. But we do. Why cant we all just make the most of the opportunity we have been given by God to glorify him on these days in particular? If anything it would highlight him more from the materialistic mentality of the time. We are to live the difference Christ calls us to live and what better a time to show that than when the world is going nuts for chocolate or presents?

I'm not saying this is you, but honestly the world doesn't view Easter as a day that Christians are any less materialistic than anyone else- Because it is marked as a Christian holiday, (and Christmas) by default Christians are the ones viewed as materialistic.
Compared with the Passover that Jesus Himself took, there are pretty much no similarities.
Jesus washed His disciples feet, we stock up on chocolate. Jesus pictured his death and our need for his body and blood with the bread and wine, Easter looks at Jesus' resurrection- and not even very much, it's just tradition.

Revinius
Mar 25th 2008, 01:53 AM
As far as the world at large is concerned its not a major issue. For most Christians its about mission within their community and at the community level is where the difference is highlighted. I know of heaps of people who have been really surprised and intrigued by my answers when they ask "What you getting up to over Easter?". Its also a great opportunity for churches to make an extra special effort to getting outsiders in for preaching centred around the heart of the gospel.

JPR
Mar 30th 2014, 02:21 PM
I have made this video on the topic of Peschach (I spell it Peshag in my mother tongue) I do think the day and the way we celebrate it, is NB. Watch it.


http://youtu.be/KD151LSiEyY

John 8:32
Mar 31st 2014, 04:57 PM
But Jesus' death and resurrection is commemorated and preached on
"Easter" Sunday. :pp

This I would disagree with...

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Weeping for Tammuz, Ishtar, Sunday sunrise service, hot cross buns, egg rolls etc. are not according to the scriptures. Friday to Sunday is not according to the scriptures.

John 8:32
Mar 31st 2014, 04:58 PM
I don't have a problem with people choosing any of the 365 days to preach Messiah. It would be nice, however, if believers celebrated the sacrifice of our Passover Lamb....well, on Passover which this year isn't until next month. :hmm:

God Bless!

Paul taught the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread...

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Nowhere does he teach Ishtar.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

ChangedByHim
Mar 31st 2014, 11:27 PM
What would Easter be like without someone warning me of the pagan origins? Thanks.... I've been edumacated another year.

moonglow
Mar 31st 2014, 11:32 PM
What would Easter be like without someone warning me of the pagan origins? Thanks.... I've been edumacated another year.

Yea..and I hate to contribute to such an OLD thread...if people notice, it was started in 2008...all of the post were done in 2008, until it got booted up the other day...I really would like folks to just start new threads rather then bring up such olds ones where many of the members are no longer even on here for different reasons...so won't be replying back..

ChangedByHim
Apr 1st 2014, 01:08 AM
Some people want to party like it's 1999......

BrianW
Apr 1st 2014, 01:59 AM
Please don't bump threads that are over six years old.

Thread closed.