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Teke
Mar 20th 2008, 02:57 PM
I talked with a priest about this subject, and he gave me some very insightful information about it from scripture, specifically from the laws of scripture. The subject came up in a ladies group where some of the ladies husbands didn't attend church, and those ladies wanted to know if they were right or wrong in some things they were doing. Things which pertained to or amounted to them taking a vow to God and fulfilling that endeavor. Examples, such as attending worship every week, and giving tithes.

Scripture is quite clear on this subject, and I thought to post it in the event it helps others lighten their load on the subject in what scripture has to say. Here are those scriptures,

Num 30.10: If a woman living with her husband makes a vow or obligates herself by a pledge under oath 11 and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her and does not forbid her, then all her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. 12 But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and the LORD will release her. 13 Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself. 14 But if her husband says nothing to her about it from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or the pledges binding on her. He confirms them by saying nothing to her when he hears about them. 15 If, however, he nullifies them some time after he hears about them, then he is responsible for her guilt.

Quite self explanatory. :)

daughter
Mar 20th 2008, 02:59 PM
Hummm... I thought he had to cancel her vow as soon as he heard it? I mean the same day? If he doesn't cancel her vow, but stops her being able to fulfill it, then the guilt is his, not hers.

threebigrocks
Mar 20th 2008, 03:23 PM
Things which pertained to or amounted to them taking a vow to God and fulfilling that endeavor. Examples, such as attending worship every week, and giving tithes.

Scripture is quite clear on this subject, and I thought to post it in the event it helps others lighten their load on the subject in what scripture has to say. Here are those scriptures,

Num 30.10: If a woman living with her husband makes a vow or obligates herself by a pledge under oath 11 and her husband hears about it but says nothing to her and does not forbid her, then all her vows or the pledges by which she obligated herself will stand. 12 But if her husband nullifies them when he hears about them, then none of the vows or pledges that came from her lips will stand. Her husband has nullified them, and the LORD will release her. 13 Her husband may confirm or nullify any vow she makes or any sworn pledge to deny herself. 14 But if her husband says nothing to her about it from day to day, then he confirms all her vows or the pledges binding on her. He confirms them by saying nothing to her when he hears about them. 15 If, however, he nullifies them some time after he hears about them, then he is responsible for her guilt.


The scripture seems to be dealing with husbands who are of the faith. I'm getting the impression from your description that the women at your church attend alone, meaning that their husbands may not be of the faith.

If this is so, then why would the husband who is of the faith not allow a woman to corporately worship or tithe? He certainly would, and also be there with her.

I think I may not be quite understanding the situation of these women you study with.

Teke
Mar 20th 2008, 03:29 PM
Hummm... I thought he had to cancel her vow as soon as he heard it? I mean the same day? If he doesn't cancel her vow, but stops her being able to fulfill it, then the guilt is his, not hers.

There are instances of women making vows without any record of husbands consent (ex. 1 Sam. 1-2). But sometimes it is a necessity to have it.

In verse 13 there is "to deny herself" which is always associated in the OT with "no work". If such a decision would effect the health of the family unit, it would warrant a second opinion, such as the husbands.

Also, in the case of "the debt", the person responsble for "the debt", so to speak, was protected from being over committed in this case by his wife. Such an over commitment in a one income family could also have possible adverse effects on the wife. So a second opinion relating to finances was likely a protection for both man and wife.

I think this is wonderful for women to know. This is how my marriage of over 30 yrs has been, and it has worked out great. :)

Teke
Mar 20th 2008, 03:39 PM
The scripture seems to be dealing with husbands who are of the faith. I'm getting the impression from your description that the women at your church attend alone, meaning that their husbands may not be of the faith.

The husbands of these women are of the faith, but not of the same religion. Not an ideal situation, but it is quite common in America. ex. Catholic marries a Protestant


If this is so, then why would the husband who is of the faith not allow a woman to corporately worship or tithe? He certainly would, and also be there with her.

He wouldn't necessarily be there with her all the time if he is of another religion. Though he would come with her from time to time, whereas she would always be there.


I think I may not be quite understanding the situation of these women you study with.

I've read many posts on this message board where women are faced with the problem of their husbands being of another religion than they have accepted. And your right, it is a situation that many do not know how to deal with.

But as these scriptures point out, if he isn't complaining about it, then all is well. I think that is fair.

threebigrocks
Mar 20th 2008, 03:54 PM
Ah, two different and conflicting faiths. Makes sense now.

And if he does complain? That's a sticky thing. I don't think I could stop practicing what I believed in my heart if my husband said I couldn't. I honestly don't.

daughter
Mar 20th 2008, 06:00 PM
My husband, before he became Christian, told me not to pray in the room with him, not to read my Bible in front of him, and not to go to church. (In case I got brainwashed.)

So I had to wait for him to be asleep before I could pray for him, had to read my Bible in another room, and barely went to church for almost a year. Though he did change his mind about my Bible reading, and within three days of the "ban" was asking me to read him bits from Bible, including whole books.

But anyway... although I was obedient to the ban, I was still able to worship God in my heart. And my husband was still saved.

cnw
Mar 21st 2008, 02:46 AM
Yes, but the vow to her husband in marriage is formost as the NT says she is to be obedient. Saughter, that testimony is powerful to those who see Scripture behind it, but most wont. The OT vows have nothing to do with same religion, but jsut vows. The whole chapter should be read in light. It says the father can disolve vows also. A woman who has made a vow to her husband does not have the right to make vows to any other for anythng unless she also lets him know. They are one...I would think the same would go for him, but that is ot being discussed here.

Isnt God the best because he knows our hearts. I would never stop worshiping him in my heart either.

Sarahtea
Apr 16th 2008, 02:23 AM
I did not carefully read everything on this post, I more scanned it, but this is my opinion:

The reason why we submit to our husbands is out of obedience to God. God says obey our husbands. Therefore, we are to obey our husbands, except when obeying them is clearly causing us to sin, because then we are no longer obeying God (which is the original point). (sin here is defined as directly contradicting an obvious command in scripture.)

I believe that if your husband is not a Christian, you still have to submit to him. If he says you cannot go to a bible study, then you cannot go to the bible study. However, if he tells you to sin and you obey, then you are still responsible for your own sin. If he tells you to stop being a christian, you do not have to stop believing in your heart. Scriptural backup: Acts 5:27-29, in which Peter refuses to obey the high priest (who God put in authority) because the high priest commands him to go against what Jesus commanded him.

Also: Acts 5: the story of Ananias and Saphira, in which the woman was independently asked about the money, and she also lied, and died as a result. They did not clarify whether or not her husband told her to lie, so I do not think it mattered what he told her -- she was accountable for her sin of lying.

Teke
Apr 16th 2008, 01:34 PM
The OT vows have nothing to do with same religion, but jsut vows. The whole chapter should be read in light. It says the father can disolve vows also. A woman who has made a vow to her husband does not have the right to make vows to any other for anythng unless she also lets him know. They are one...I would think the same would go for him, but that is ot being discussed here.


A husband and wife are one, and their actions should reflect that. An intuitive wife would know what her husband will and will not allow before making a vow (promise). The husband should be just as sensitive to his wife.

Befaithful
Apr 16th 2008, 09:59 PM
what if a person makes an impossible vow. out of ignorance:hmm::confusedsay 50% of everything...are they held to this their whole life. even if done with a shallow mind not fully comprehending what they have done? or ?

Teke
Apr 16th 2008, 11:33 PM
what if a person makes an impossible vow. out of ignorance:hmm::confusedsay 50% of everything...are they held to this their whole life. even if done with a shallow mind not fully comprehending what they have done? or ?

Lord have mercy! no :no:

cnw
Apr 18th 2008, 02:30 AM
A husband and wife are one, and their actions should reflect that. An intuitive wife would know what her husband will and will not allow before making a vow (promise). The husband should be just as sensitive to his wife.

Yes Teek, that is what I was saying except how many intuitive wives do you know....I would say not many due to age and immaturity.


Befaithful, if you read the chapter, I think this is why God said the vow could be recanted by the husband or father. I believe they are held accountable to a vow even foolishly made. Look at some stories in Scripture. I think there were some very foolish vows made and curses befell....

Teke
Apr 18th 2008, 01:14 PM
Yes Teek, that is what I was saying except how many intuitive wives do you know....I would say not many due to age and immaturity.


Younger women are to learn from older Christian women. So who winds up responsible in such a case.


Befaithful, if you read the chapter, I think this is why God said the vow could be recanted by the husband or father. I believe they are held accountable to a vow even foolishly made. Look at some stories in Scripture. I think there were some very foolish vows made and curses befell....

Can you give examples.

cnw
Apr 19th 2008, 02:30 AM
the younger generation wont listen....doesn't the Bible say something about this...I sense another thread coming....
this perverse generation of rebellious young women
listen to the older women I say listen and learn...
kidding teke, I wish there were more examples of older women who were willing to be that example.