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Yolande~
Mar 20th 2008, 03:40 PM
This is one particular parable in the bible, I do not have much revelation about yet.

Those 5 virgins who did not make it were pure (else they would not be virgins)
They were waiting for Jesus (they had their eyes on Him)
They had the oil (which may mean the Holy Spirit, I don't know).
They had one problem : they did not have enough

And then JEsus said to them He never knew them, for they were not ready when He came....Help please, if you have more insight into this...

Now, while I am on the topic, I have another question that relates.

On a wedding there are
1) The bridegroom (we know that is JEsus)
2) Friend of the bridegroom (I suppose that is John the baptist) Joh 3:29
3) The one that presents the bride to the bridegroom (I understand that as being Paul) 2 Cor 11:2
4) The bride itself (I see that as those who are in Christ)
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? Matt 22:11
6) The Father of the bride and bridegroom (which is God the Father)


Please tell me where you agree or disagree or have any additional revelation to add in from your understanding from scripture and private discussions with our loving Father. I long to have greater understanding on this.

th1bill
Mar 20th 2008, 03:57 PM
This is one particular parable in the bible, I do not have much revelation about yet.

Those 5 virgins who did not make it were pure (else they would not be virgins)
They were waiting for Jesus (they had their eyes on Him)
They had the oil (which may mean the Holy Spirit, I don't know).
They had one problem : they did not have enough

And then JEsus said to them He never knew them, for they were not ready when He came....Help please, if you have more insight into this...

Now, while I am on the topic, I have another question that relates.

On a wedding there are
1) The bridegroom (we know that is JEsus)
2) Friend of the bridegroom (I suppose that is John the baptist)
3) The one that presents the bride to the bridegroom (I understand that as being Paul)
4) The bride itself (I see that as those who are in Christ)
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests?
6) The Father of the bride and bridegroom (which is God the Father)
7) Perhaps the mother of the Bride and bridegroom can be seen as the Holy Spirit?

Please tell me where you agree or disagree or have any additional revelation to add in from your understanding from scripture and private discussions with our loving Father. I long to have greater understanding on this.
.. On the first question I see that we need to be ever ready. When I joined the Army they trained me for my mission and I graduated. From that moment on I trained and prepared, even though I had graduated. I view this parable in the same light. Just because we have taken Jesus as our savior does not mean that 3we should cease to study and to prepare for His coming.
.. On your second scenario, I'll not comment on that because much of it is just not supported by scripture, to my knowledge.

Tanya~
Mar 20th 2008, 04:23 PM
Hi Yolande,

In the parables, the first thing to understand is the main thrust of the parable. In the parable of the virgins, the main point Jesus is making, is found in bold at the end:


Matt 25:1-13

"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.' 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' 12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'

13 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
NKJV
Before we get preoccupied with seeking a corresponding meaning for each element of this parable, we need to recognize that the point Jesus seeks to get across: we must be watching and prepared when the Lord returns. This is a theme repeated by Jesus in other places and in other parables. See Mark 13:32-37; Matt 24:42; Luke 21:36;

So the main meaning of the oil is to show that some of the virgins were prepared for the coming of the bridegroom, and some were not prepared. Those who were not prepared are not going to be able to borrow the preparedness of others. Each person must be prepared for themselves.

The fact that all are virgins doesn't necessarily speak to their purity. In our culture it would refer mainly to sexual purity because so many unmarried girls and women are not virgins. In that culture it merely speaks to their unmarried state. All it really is saying is that they are bridesmaids -- the unmarried attendants to the bride. It highlights that they are all in the same category. What we can see from the parable is that all 10 of these virgins were expecting to go with the bridegroom when he comes. What we can see there, and verify with other passages of Scripture, is that not everyone who thinks they're going to be accepted by Jesus is going to be accepted by Jesus.


Matt 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me,'Lord, Lord ,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord , have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
NKJV

Luke 6:46-49
"But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say? 47 Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. 49 But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great."
NKJV

Luke 13:23-27
And He said to them, 24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying,'Lord, Lord , open for us,' and He will answer and say to you,'I do not know you, where you are from,' 26 then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' 27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
NKJV

Yolande~
Mar 20th 2008, 04:37 PM
..
.. On your second scenario, I'll not comment on that because much of it is just not supported by scripture, to my knowledge.


I included scriptures now

Yolande~
Mar 20th 2008, 04:41 PM
Hi Yolande,

In the parables, the first thing to understand is the main thrust of the parable. In the parable of the virgins, the main point Jesus is making, is found in bold at the end:
13 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.





Thanks Tanya for your detailed and relevant reply. I agree, it is important that we watch!

Tanya~
Mar 20th 2008, 04:58 PM
On a wedding there are
1) The bridegroom (we know that is JEsus)
2) Friend of the bridegroom (I suppose that is John the baptist) Joh 3:29
3) The one that presents the bride to the bridegroom (I understand that as being Paul) 2 Cor 11:2
4) The bride itself (I see that as those who are in Christ)
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? Matt 22:11
6) The Father of the bride and bridegroom (which is God the Father)


Please tell me where you agree or disagree or have any additional revelation to add in from your understanding from scripture and private discussions with our loving Father. I long to have greater understanding on this.

There is a thread in the Maturing in Christ forum titled Covenant Relationship with Christ that you might find helpful in your understanding of the spiritual meaning of marriage. Check that out and see if that helps your understanding.
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=117898

Buck shot
Mar 20th 2008, 05:19 PM
Now, while I am on the topic, I have another question that relates.
Green by Myrton:
On a wedding there are
1) The bridegroom (we know that is JEsus)
YES
2) Friend of the bridegroom (I suppose that is John the baptist) Joh 3:29
Not sure, but I can see where you could get this. Let's see if someone else chimes in that may have spent some time on this already.
3) The one that presents the bride to the bridegroom (I understand that as being Paul) 2 Cor 11:2
I have never looked at this in this light because I think of Paul as also being in the bride, good point though.
4) The bride itself (I see that as those who are in Christ)
YES
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? Matt 22:11
I would think the guests would be the angels and all the Heavenly host.
6) The Father of the bride and bridegroom (which is God the Father)


Please tell me where you agree or disagree or have any additional revelation to add in from your understanding from scripture and private discussions with our loving Father. I long to have greater understanding on this.


Tanya did a good job! :thumbsup:

It is important to remember the main reason that Jesus told the parable!

Pondering is not wrong though and is usually insightful. Remember also that Jesus did not mention the breakdown of the ceremony in the parable but just said there was one and who was let in.

Yolande~
Mar 20th 2008, 05:23 PM
Quoted from Buckshot:
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? Matt 22:11
I would think the guests would be the angels and all the Heavenly host


Thanks very much Buckshot for all your comments in green. As for this one, I can not see how the guests could be the angels, for some of them did not have the proper clothing on and were casted into outer darkness.

Frances
Mar 20th 2008, 05:54 PM
And then JEsus said to them He never knew them, for they were not ready when He came....Help please, if you have more insight into this....
The oil represents the Holy Spirit. All Christians have been 'breathed on' by Jesus(John 20:22). as the first disciples were. All Christians must be filled with/ baptised in Holy Spirit (ie. personal pentecost - Luke 24:49). Unfotunately many Christians seem to think they can function perfectly well without Pentecost - not realising they are, in effect, trying to push an electric car without a battery, instead of installing a fully charged battery and going further without effort.

5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? .
Everyone must be clothed in Jesus Righteousness.

9Marksfan
Mar 20th 2008, 06:58 PM
I don't believe we should be dissecting each and every part of the parable, trying to identify who's who etc - it's also important to see the parable in context with the other two - the sheep and the goats and the workers in the vineyard. All three deal with the visible, professing church and some in each parable will be shut out of heaven and condemned to Hell - Jesus makes it clear elsewhere that He does not know these people - indeed He NEVER knew them - so they are not true Christians and never were. This helps us to understand all the parables in context.

I don't think we should read purity into the fact that the five foolish virgins were still virgins - the message of the parable is not purity/impurity but wisdom/folly.

I also don't believe that the foolish virgins had ANY oil - the parable speifically says that they took NO oil with them. Someone might ask "How then could their lamps be lit?" A friend of mine at church was in Israel recently and he brought back a few clay lamps as presents, no doubt similar to the ones that these virgins used. There is a little hole at the end for the wick and larger one in the middle for the oil. I believe that the foolish virgins simply had the wick lit (representing their profession of faith/superficial Christian experience) but had no oil of the Holy Spirit that would be the only thing that would enable them to keep going. They could not trim their lamps if there was no wick!

Although Jesus' command is to watch, there is clearly a message that we need to be truly born of the Spirit so that we will possess the Spirit - He alone is the true oil for lamps - to keep them burning, as the chorus says!

Buck shot
Mar 20th 2008, 07:12 PM
Quoted from Buckshot:
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? Matt 22:11
I would think the guests would be the angels and all the Heavenly host


Thanks very much Buckshot for all your comments in green. As for this one, I can not see how the guests could be the angels, for some of them did not have the proper clothing on and were casted into outer darkness.

The one's that are not dressed properly will be the ones that are cast out for sure, to a place that was not created for man at all. They will not be able to be witnesses because they will not get to watch.:kiss:

Tanya~
Mar 20th 2008, 07:43 PM
Good points Nigel,

The only thing I would point out is this:


Matt 25:3-9
3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
NKJV
The foolish had lamps which had to have oil in them, in order for them to burn. The wise had their lamps AND their vessels with oil -- they had their refills with them, whereas the foolish did not take any extra oil with them. While a lamp is burning, the wick has to be trimmed every once in a while. The fact that they trimmed their wicks when the bridegroom came indicates that the lamps were burning the whole time the virgins were sleeping. The difference between the two groups is that the wise group was prepared and the foolish group was not.

A common lamp from around this time can be seen here (http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/Community/pottery.html). Scroll down to "Herodian Lamp" to see the image and description.

9Marksfan
Mar 20th 2008, 11:20 PM
Good points Nigel,

The only thing I would point out is this:


Matt 25:3-9
3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.


6 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
NKJVThe foolish had lamps which had to have oil in them, in order for them to burn. The wise had their lamps AND their vessels with oil -- they had their refills with them, whereas the foolish did not take any extra oil with them. While a lamp is burning, the wick has to be trimmed every once in a while. The fact that they trimmed their wicks when the bridegroom came indicates that the lamps were burning the whole time the virgins were sleeping. The difference between the two groups is that the wise group was prepared and the foolish group was not.

A common lamp from around this time can be seen here (http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/Community/pottery.html). Scroll down to "Herodian Lamp" to see the image and description.

Yep, that's pretty similar to the clay lamp I got. Maybe I'll have to readjust my analogy - but I do believe that the lit lamp of the foolish virgins is the superficial profession of faith, where there is not true possession of the Spirit/root in the soil (Jesus: "they believe for a while") - this may even be an initial tasting of the Spirit (Heb 6:4-6) - but many experience this who are never truly converted - why and how this happens is a profound mystery but that it happens all too often is undeniable.

RogerW
Mar 21st 2008, 12:21 AM
Yep, that's pretty similar to the clay lamp I got. Maybe I'll have to readjust my analogy - but I do believe that the lit lamp of the foolish virgins is the superficial profession of faith, where there is not true possession of the Spirit/root in the soil (Jesus: "they believe for a while") - this may even be an initial tasting of the Spirit (Heb 6:4-6) - but many experience this who are never truly converted - why and how this happens is a profound mystery but that it happens all too often is undeniable.

Hi Nigel & Tanya,

Had you ever considered that perhaps all are likened unto virgins because all have been baptized into the covenant body outwardly? Another way of saying it, whoever becomes part of the universal church through the sacrament of baptism has become a partaker of the body of Christ. But many receive the sign who are later shown to be in unbelief, but Scripture does not make a distinction between those coming into the body through water baptism, who are genuine or false. The only thing Scripture tells us is that there are false members within the body. So all ten are called virgins even though only five are the bride.

Many Blessings,
RW

2 Peter 2:20
Mar 21st 2008, 12:44 AM
I don't believe we should be dissecting each and every part of the parable, trying to identify who's who etc - it's also important to see the parable in context with the other two - the sheep and the goats and the workers in the vineyard. All three deal with the visible, professing church and some in each parable will be shut out of heaven and condemned to Hell - Jesus makes it clear elsewhere that He does not know these people - indeed He NEVER knew them - so they are not true Christians and never were. This helps us to understand all the parables in context.

I don't think we should read purity into the fact that the five foolish virgins were still virgins - the message of the parable is not purity/impurity but wisdom/folly.

I also don't believe that the foolish virgins had ANY oil - the parable speifically says that they took NO oil with them. Someone might ask "How then could their lamps be lit?" A friend of mine at church was in Israel recently and he brought back a few clay lamps as presents, no doubt similar to the ones that these virgins used. There is a little hole at the end for the wick and larger one in the middle for the oil. I believe that the foolish virgins simply had the wick lit (representing their profession of faith/superficial Christian experience) but had no oil of the Holy Spirit that would be the only thing that would enable them to keep going. They could not trim their lamps if there was no wick!

Although Jesus' command is to watch, there is clearly a message that we need to be truly born of the Spirit so that we will possess the Spirit - He alone is the true oil for lamps - to keep them burning, as the chorus says!

9M,

I'm following you around.:lol:

You have got to be kidding me...they only lit the wicks with no oil in them. Don't you think that is a little bit of a stretch. The distinction is made initially between those who took vessels of oil and who didn't. Not who had working lamps and who didn't.

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 02:19 AM
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

The foolish take only their lamps, which have a reservoir of oil but doesnt hold an overly large amount. The wise take extra containers of oil vessels, so they have a larger supply.

Many believe that the oil is truth, or The Holy Spirit. It doesn't really matter for the purpose of the parable which it represents since all the virgins are intending to meet the bridegroom as verse 1 says, and all have lamps and oil, though some have more oil. However, I believe it represents truth and will allude to that in this work.

So who would have "some" truth and who want to meet Christ but fall short? I would say they are most Christians of today. They have the milk of the word, and they certainly want to go to Christ, but they dont have the whole truth and they believe doctrines like the pre-tribulation rapture.

The wise ones have more of the truth, they carry it on purpose, its more labor but they know its important. These will have enough truth to know about the tribulation and the false Christ and they will stay true to Christ when He returns.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

The darkness will be the tribulation. The cry being made is by those who are the watchers, who are telling that the true Christ is coming even though the whole world sleeps because of the darkness. The 5 wise virgins are the elect and the ones "calling" that the true Christ is coming are the watchers and the two prophets. When this call is made by them the elect will "wake up" and trim their lamps and use that oil they have. They get all this extra oil before the tribulation, which is now, through the teachings of those God has anointed with truth, that oil. So, even the wise 5 virgins slumber right until Christ was announced!

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

The lamps of the foolish are out because they were on all night and they ran out of oil, and they didnt have enough oil to light them up again. At some point in the night the foolish ones were in complete darkness, their "nightlights" went out. The wise had light/truth all night (think of the night as the tribulation). The lamps of the wise did not go out during the early part of the night.

Also, this trimming of lamps has something to do with adjusting the wick. In the days before electricity most people had either candles or oil lamps going through the night. the trimming probably refers to extending the wick so the flame would grow larger and emit more light. Only a modest flame would have been needed while they slept.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Certainly this is another reference to the tribulation:

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
"they bought, they sold". If this example was compared to the end times before the destruction came would be like the tribulation period, this buying and selling etc....and the destruction would be Christs return and the wrath of God 7th trump. Lot would be the elect who are gathered by angels.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

I think the foolish "bought" or bartered their "virginity" for the oil they got. There were no 24 hour stores in this time as there is today. No honest person would be selling after midnight so where they went, who they bought from and what they had to give is seriously questionable. Regardless, the wise ones are taken to the marriage by the bridegroom and the foolish will be left behind.
In my opinion, when it says the 5 foolish go out to buy, they do buy "false oil", false teachings....they take the mark and are therefore allowed to "buy and sell".

The elect in the tribulation wont take the mark, and wont be allowed to buy and sell, but if the parable of the ten virgins helps at all, then we know that there wont be any need for any wise virgins to buy anything because they prepared ahead of time with extra oil.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

One interesting thought is what would have happened had the 5 foolish virgins remained, with unlit lamps, and were there while Christ had returned? It seems a critical element is that they were gone when he arrived. They were late because they hadn't been properly prepared for his return. They were lacking something and realized it too late.

This whole parable applies to His return and symbolically how the world will be divided up, those who are foolish and those who are wise, those with enough oil and those that had some of the oil but ran out of it at the wrong time.

2 Peter 2:20
Mar 21st 2008, 03:10 AM
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

The foolish take only their lamps, which have a reservoir of oil but doesnt hold an overly large amount. The wise take extra containers of oil vessels, so they have a larger supply.

Many believe that the oil is truth, or The Holy Spirit. It doesn't really matter for the purpose of the parable which it represents since all the virgins are intending to meet the bridegroom as verse 1 says, and all have lamps and oil, though some have more oil. However, I believe it represents truth and will allude to that in this work.

So who would have "some" truth and who want to meet Christ but fall short? I would say they are most Christians of today. They have the milk of the word, and they certainly want to go to Christ, but they dont have the whole truth and they believe doctrines like the pre-tribulation rapture.

The wise ones have more of the truth, they carry it on purpose, its more labor but they know its important. These will have enough truth to know about the tribulation and the false Christ and they will stay true to Christ when He returns.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

The darkness will be the tribulation. The cry being made is by those who are the watchers, who are telling that the true Christ is coming even though the whole world sleeps because of the darkness. The 5 wise virgins are the elect and the ones "calling" that the true Christ is coming are the watchers and the two prophets. When this call is made by them the elect will "wake up" and trim their lamps and use that oil they have. They get all this extra oil before the tribulation, which is now, through the teachings of those God has anointed with truth, that oil. So, even the wise 5 virgins slumber right until Christ was announced!

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

The lamps of the foolish are out because they were on all night and they ran out of oil, and they didnt have enough oil to light them up again. At some point in the night the foolish ones were in complete darkness, their "nightlights" went out. The wise had light/truth all night (think of the night as the tribulation). The lamps of the wise did not go out during the early part of the night.

Also, this trimming of lamps has something to do with adjusting the wick. In the days before electricity most people had either candles or oil lamps going through the night. the trimming probably refers to extending the wick so the flame would grow larger and emit more light. Only a modest flame would have been needed while they slept.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Certainly this is another reference to the tribulation:

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luke 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
"they bought, they sold". If this example was compared to the end times before the destruction came would be like the tribulation period, this buying and selling etc....and the destruction would be Christs return and the wrath of God 7th trump. Lot would be the elect who are gathered by angels.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

I think the foolish "bought" or bartered their "virginity" for the oil they got. There were no 24 hour stores in this time as there is today. No honest person would be selling after midnight so where they went, who they bought from and what they had to give is seriously questionable. Regardless, the wise ones are taken to the marriage by the bridegroom and the foolish will be left behind.
In my opinion, when it says the 5 foolish go out to buy, they do buy "false oil", false teachings....they take the mark and are therefore allowed to "buy and sell".

The elect in the tribulation wont take the mark, and wont be allowed to buy and sell, but if the parable of the ten virgins helps at all, then we know that there wont be any need for any wise virgins to buy anything because they prepared ahead of time with extra oil.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

One interesting thought is what would have happened had the 5 foolish virgins remained, with unlit lamps, and were there while Christ had returned? It seems a critical element is that they were gone when he arrived. They were late because they hadn't been properly prepared for his return. They were lacking something and realized it too late.

This whole parable applies to His return and symbolically how the world will be divided up, those who are foolish and those who are wise, those with enough oil and those that had some of the oil but ran out of it at the wrong time.

Could we say that this is the "survivalist" parable?????:D

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 03:13 AM
Could we say that this is the "survivalist" parable?????:D

It's all about survival or destruction in the end.

2 Peter 2:20
Mar 21st 2008, 03:25 AM
It's all about survival or destruction in the end.


Amen to that!!!

I draw a parallel with...

39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

My heart's Desire
Mar 21st 2008, 03:43 AM
I don't think any of it has to do with those in the Church. Hardly any of the language seems like Church language except for "bridegroom" and "oil" if that does represent the Holy Spirit. Why would they tell them to go buy the Holy Spirit?
Could the 5 wise virgins be like the sheep and the 5 unwise be like the goats? In that parable.

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 04:02 AM
I don't think any of it has to do with those in the Church. Hardly any of the language seems like Church language except for "bridegroom" and "oil" if that does represent the Holy Spirit.

All of it is "church language"...lamps, virgins, the entire marriage bridegroom waiting for the return thing.

My heart's Desire
Mar 21st 2008, 04:15 AM
All of it is "church language"...lamps, virgins, the entire marriage bridegroom waiting for the return thing.
I don't entirely think so.

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 04:18 AM
I don't entirely think so.

Not entirely as in every word but a huge amount of things represent things related to and spoken about the church.

My heart's Desire
Mar 21st 2008, 04:28 AM
The Church is always the bride and not a bridemaid. The Church is the bride, single not plural. There were 10 bridesmaids. If oil is the Holy Spirit which is assocciated with the redeemed then 5 are redeemed and 5 are not. Christians would know that the Holy Spirit is not bought or sold so why would part of the Church tell them without to go buy it. There is no mention of the bride and to put it in there would add something that's not there and why would bridesmaids be more important than the bride?
Whatever the oil represents the 5 without extra were told to go out and buy it. What part of the Salvation experience can one buy that keeps one from the Wedding if the bridemaids represent the church or even the members thereof. Plus it tells of going into the Wedding feast, not the actual Wedding unless of course the feast being part of the Wedding makes it all one thing.

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 04:35 AM
The Church is always the bride and not a bridemaid. The Church is the bride, single not plural.


The Church is a singular concept representing a plurality of persons.




There were 10 bridesmaids.



No, ten virgins.



There is no mention of the bride and to put it in there would add something that's not there and why would bridesmaids be more important than the bride?

There are no bridesmaids. There are ten brides, identified as virgins.


Plus it tells of going into the Wedding feast, not the actual Wedding unless of course the feast being part of the Wedding makes it all one thing.


Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

They go to get married.

My heart's Desire
Mar 21st 2008, 04:40 AM
Not entirely as in every word but a huge amount of things represent things related to and spoken about the church.
Well, I guess I'll give you part of that one, but the only things some of this would ring a bell with me then is.
The light. So let your light shine before men.
Many say that oil does represent the Holy Spirit, but in this case why can 5 take extra of the Holy Spirit and 5 cannot and we know you cannot buy the Holy Spirit or anything else associated with Him.
The bridegroom does have the bride, not bridesmaids.
If the bridesmaids were members of the church then all were asleep and none were watching or really ready or they would have been awake. If they were so prepared with extra oil one would think they be extra careful to stay awake too.

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 04:46 AM
Well, I guess I'll give you part of that one, but the only things some of this would ring a bell with me then is.
The light. So let your light shine before men.

Lamp
Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Proverbs 13:9 The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.


Virgin

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.




Many say that oil does represent the Holy Spirit, but in this case why can 5 take extra of the Holy Spirit and 5 cannot and we know you cannot buy the Holy Spirit or anything else associated with Him.

You can buy a poor substitute though, same with "truth".




If they were so prepared with extra oil one would think they be extra careful to stay awake too.

They had extra oil for light and a watchman. No one can be awake all the time so you have others that are awake for you then take turns. In another example two men are sleeping, one is taken and one is left. Both had been sleeping. It's a normal daily function.

My heart's Desire
Mar 21st 2008, 04:48 AM
The Church is a singular concept representing a plurality of persons.




No, ten virgins.




There are no bridesmaids. There are ten brides, identified as virgins.




Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

They go to get married.
Still don't make sense. What would being a virgin have to do with being a member of the church? The Church is the Bride. If it is the purity of a virgin and all were pure then why didn't the bridegroom know only 5 of them? The Church is also the Body of Christ. How could Christ deny part of His Body?
Oh, I have the NASB of the Bible. Mine says wedding feast.

Also, a footnote for the text in the ESV says of verse 1 that some manuscripts add "and the bride". The footnote in my NASB says that the Syriac and Vulgate manuscript add " and the bride so that the verse would read:

Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom and the bride.

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 04:56 AM
Still don't make sense. What would being a virgin have to do with being a member of the church? The Church is the Bride.

A spiritual virgin is one who has been loyal to their God and not worshipped false Gods.



If it is the purity of a virgin and all were pure then why didn't the bridegroom know 5 of them?

It is because they failed. It isn't literal that he didn't know them, but something they did made him no longer know them. It's a figure of speech.





The Church is also the Body of Christ. How could Christ deny part of His Body?


We can't mix different parables and concepts together and still have anything that makes sense. We are both the bride and the body in scripture but in separate parables and things.





Oh, I have the NASB of the Bible. Mine says wedding feast.



The word can mean either but I believe it is the marriage itself not just a feast for anyone to enter. Jesus is the bridegroom and he is coming back for us and it could be a shocking time such as midnight. Those that were prepared will be taken by Him.

My heart's Desire
Mar 21st 2008, 05:05 AM
Ok, where does it say there was a watchmen? And if they had one why worry if your oil gives out. The watchmen would wake you up?

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 05:09 AM
Ok, where does it say there was a watchmen?

Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.



And if they had one why worry if your oil gives out. The watchmen would wake you up?

The oil is to provide light. It's important to the story or else it wouldn't be mentioned. It tells us the difference between the two groups.

My heart's Desire
Mar 21st 2008, 05:17 AM
Here my take on it. These are people who are coming out of the Tribulation period. Of course being Pre-trib I believe the Church or the bride was taken at the rapture 7 yrs or so before. That being the case, it would be easy to see that these people who made it alive, some had become saved and some were not or professed to be and were not. They could be the same as in the sheep and goat judgement. Well, you see where I'm going with that. When Christ returns with His bride, these are survivors who go to meet Him.
Plus I believe once a member of Christ's Church, (Body) Always a member. Cannot be separated.

Naphal
Mar 21st 2008, 05:21 AM
Except in this story all are sheep at the beginning and only this one thing makes the others foolish. I believe this is a picture of the whole church before the rapture and shows that some will be raptured and why the others aren't. This is a post tribulation rapture.







Here my take on it. These are people who are coming out of the Tribulation period. Of course being Pre-trib I believe the Church or the bride was taken at the rapture 7 yrs or so before. That being the case, it would be easy to see that these people who made it alive, some had become saved and some were not or professed to be and were not. They could be the same as in the sheep and goat judgement. Well, you see where I'm going with that. When Christ returns with His bride, these are survivors who go to meet Him.

RogerW
Mar 21st 2008, 07:14 PM
Lamp
Psalms 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Proverbs 13:9 The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.

Virgin

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

You can buy a poor substitute though, same with "truth".

They had extra oil for light and a watchman. No one can be awake all the time so you have others that are awake for you then take turns. In another example two men are sleeping, one is taken and one is left. Both had been sleeping. It's a normal daily function.

Greetings Naphal,

I think you are on to something here. Consider, perhaps the oil represents a spirit. Not only the Holy Spirit of all truth, but also spirits that are not of God.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

All ten virgins are together in the church, and all appear to have the Holy Spirit, but in reality it is only those who have tried/discerned the spirits to see they are of God, who are wise. The five foolish also have oil (spirits), but what they have is not of God, but of the devil. So when the Lord comes, all go out to meet Him, the foolish too go to meet Him, but they have followed after the false. The foolish cry out to the wise to give them of their oil, but the wise virgins understand that only God can give the True Spirit (Acts 2:17; Eph 1:17), so the wise tell them to "go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves." The wise gave them sound advise, but sadly it was too late for the foolish, for now the Groom has come, and the time for the Great marriage has come, the foolish are shut out.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Many Blessings,
RW

Friend of I AM
Mar 21st 2008, 07:21 PM
Greetings Naphal,

I think you are on to something here. Consider, perhaps the oil represents a spirit. Not only the Holy Spirit of all truth, but also spirits that are not of God.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

All ten virgins are together in the church, and all appear to have the Holy Spirit, but in reality it is only those who have tried/discerned the spirits to see they are of God, who are wise. The five foolish also have oil (spirits), but what they have is not of God, but of the devil. So when the Lord comes, all go out to meet Him, the foolish too go to meet Him, but they have followed after the false. The foolish cry out to the wise to give them of their oil, but the wise virgins understand that only God can give the True Spirit (Acts 2:17; Eph 1:17), so the wise tell them to "go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves." The wise gave them sound advise, but sadly it was too late for the foolish, for now the Groom has come, and the time for the Great marriage has come, the foolish are shut out.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Many Blessings,
RW


Awesome description Roger. Very well thought out and Spirit Lead. God bless.

Stephen

My heart's Desire
Mar 22nd 2008, 03:23 AM
Except in this story all are sheep at the beginning and only this one thing makes the others foolish. I believe this is a picture of the whole church before the rapture and shows that some will be raptured and why the others aren't. This is a post tribulation rapture.
Of course, I disagree being that the whole Church will be raptured when the rapture occurs. There will not one person in the Church (The Body of Christ) who will be left. I don't believe it to be post trib rapture.

Naphal
Mar 22nd 2008, 03:53 AM
Yes I think those are plausible explanations of the symbollogies of this parable.



Greetings Naphal,

I think you are on to something here. Consider, perhaps the oil represents a spirit. Not only the Holy Spirit of all truth, but also spirits that are not of God.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

All ten virgins are together in the church, and all appear to have the Holy Spirit, but in reality it is only those who have tried/discerned the spirits to see they are of God, who are wise. The five foolish also have oil (spirits), but what they have is not of God, but of the devil. So when the Lord comes, all go out to meet Him, the foolish too go to meet Him, but they have followed after the false. The foolish cry out to the wise to give them of their oil, but the wise virgins understand that only God can give the True Spirit (Acts 2:17; Eph 1:17), so the wise tell them to "go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves." The wise gave them sound advise, but sadly it was too late for the foolish, for now the Groom has come, and the time for the Great marriage has come, the foolish are shut out.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Many Blessings,
RW

Naphal
Mar 22nd 2008, 04:02 AM
Of course, I disagree being that the whole Church will be raptured when the rapture occurs. There will not one person in the Church (The Body of Christ) who will be left. I don't believe it to be post trib rapture.

Naturally Christ will only come for those who are worthy but the parable is concerning the return of Christ after the tribulation so it cannot be something occurring before the tribulation. This is only one parable in about 9 in a row concerning what occurs after the tribulation.

ONE

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


TWO

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


Subject returned to the return of Christ

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


THREE
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

FOUR
Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

FIVE
Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

SIX
Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Matthew 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Matthew 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Matthew 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Matthew 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Matthew 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


SEVEN
Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Matthew 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Matthew 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Matthew 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Matthew 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Matthew 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Matthew 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Matthew 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Matthew 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

SEVEN
Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Matthew 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Matthew 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Matthew 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Matthew 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Matthew 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Matthew 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Matthew 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Matthew 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Matthew 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

EIGHT
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

NINE
Matthew 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Matthew 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Matthew 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Matthew 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Matthew 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Matthew 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

My heart's Desire
Mar 22nd 2008, 05:33 PM
Naturally Christ will only come for those who are worthy but the parable is concerning the return of Christ after the tribulation so it cannot be something occurring before the tribulation. This is only one parable in about 9 in a row concerning what occurs after the tribulation..
I guess we're agreeing then. The Church is raptured out of the World and 7 years or so after the trib, the Kingdom begins with Christ reigning over His Kingdom. Those worthy do enter for the duration of the 1000yrs.

Saved7
Mar 22nd 2008, 06:56 PM
This is one particular parable in the bible, I do not have much revelation about yet.

Those 5 virgins who did not make it were pure (else they would not be virgins)
They were waiting for Jesus (they had their eyes on Him)
They had the oil (which may mean the Holy Spirit, I don't know).
They had one problem : they did not have enough

And then JEsus said to them He never knew them, for they were not ready when He came....Help please, if you have more insight into this...

Now, while I am on the topic, I have another question that relates.

On a wedding there are
1) The bridegroom (we know that is JEsus)
2) Friend of the bridegroom (I suppose that is John the baptist) Joh 3:29
3) The one that presents the bride to the bridegroom (I understand that as being Paul) 2 Cor 11:2
4) The bride itself (I see that as those who are in Christ)
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? Matt 22:11
6) The Father of the bride and bridegroom (which is God the Father)


Please tell me where you agree or disagree or have any additional revelation to add in from your understanding from scripture and private discussions with our loving Father. I long to have greater understanding on this.


I've seen the 10 virgins parable explained in a number of ways, but what I don't normally see is the small detail of the cry going out at midnight that the groom is on his way.

It would seem that no one notices this, this is the voice of those that The Lord speaks to, to tell the church, that Jesus is coming back soon, and it's at the end of the or early the next day (midnight). It's when they have all but given up and gone to sleep that he finally shows up on the scene.
Notice the cry goes out, BEFORE the virgins can even see him...it's the warning to get it together, quit faking faith, quit playing church and get some real faith, get a relationship with him. But it's too late for the 5 foolish ones, though the 5 wise ones, they were ready.

Notice he said to the 5 foolish ones I NEVER knew you. Just as He said in an earlier parable, describing those who would come saying "Lord Lord, we did this in your name and we did that in your name", He says this same "I NEVER knew you" to them as well.

Jesus has told several people including myself, that He is coming back soon, so to those who are reading this and never truely trusted the Lord with their lives and have no relationship with Him...don't be foolish.

Servant89
Mar 22nd 2008, 08:16 PM
The 10 virgins:

The main thing for Christians should be: Seek ye first the kingdom of God and its righteousness and everything else will be added unto you.

What is the kingdom of God? 1Cor 4:20 says it is in power, not words. The power comes from the Holy Spirit (represented by the oil). In Acts 1 the disciples ask Jesus to tell them when the Kingdom will come and Jesus answer was: Ye shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes upon you. Jesus also said: If I cast demons by the spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God is upon you. If there is raw power, that's the kingdom.

Both virgins (foolish and wise) had lamps (thy word is a lamp, they both had Bibles). Both were waiting for the coming of the Lord. Both slumbered and slept failing to watch. The only difference was their attitude towards the oil. Jesus said: My words are spirit (our lamps have oil). But the wise virgins put oil in their vessels (in themselves).

Read Acts chapter 8.

In the Our Father prayer, there are six things in petition. But # 1 on the list is "Thy kingdom come". Because that should be # 1.

Shalom.

Yolande~
Mar 22nd 2008, 09:45 PM
The 10 virgins:

The main thing for Christians should be: Seek ye first the kingdom of God and its righteousness and everything else will be added unto you.

What is the kingdom of God? 1Cor 4:20 says it is in power, not words. The power comes from the Holy Spirit (represented by the oil). In Acts 1 the disciples ask Jesus to tell them when the Kingdom will come and Jesus answer was: Ye shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes upon you. Jesus also said: If I cast demons by the spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God is upon you. If there is raw power, that's the kingdom.

Both virgins (foolish and wise) had lamps (thy word is a lamp, they both had Bibles). Both were waiting for the coming of the Lord. Both slumbered and slept failing to watch. The only difference was their attitude towards the oil. Jesus said: My words are spirit (our lamps have oil). But the wise virgins put oil in their vessels (in themselves).

Read Acts chapter 8.

In the Our Father prayer, there are six things in petition. But # 1 on the list is "Thy kingdom come". Because that should be # 1.

Shalom.

This is the kind of answer I was really waiting for! Thank you so very much for sharing this Servant! I feel very comfortable with what you said. I will meditate on this. IT speaks to me. It addresses the question that I had really well... even though I am not 100% clear on everything still.

Tell me, the foolish ones, what did they do with the oil? did they ever have oil in themselves? have they ever received Jesus Christ as Saviour? Why were they not part of the bride - it seems they were guests - all 10 of them?

Do you have any comment for me on my second part of the question. On the wedding day, who will be the guests if the ones in Christ will be the bride?

Thanks again for your excellent (very helpful) post!

Naphal
Mar 23rd 2008, 05:04 AM
I guess we're agreeing then. The Church is raptured out of the World and 7 years or so after the trib, the Kingdom begins with Christ reigning over His Kingdom. Those worthy do enter for the duration of the 1000yrs.

We don't agree on when the Rapture occurs. Christ also said the tribulation has been shortened so using the antiquated 7 year length is invalid.

My heart's Desire
Mar 23rd 2008, 11:37 PM
We don't agree on when the Rapture occurs. Christ also said the tribulation has been shortened so using the antiquated 7 year length is invalid.
If we don't agree on when the catching up of the Church occurs then we'll not agree on much else, regarding what passage of scripture involves this or that group etc. I'll still talk about it because I'll still be learning until the day Christ comes.

Servant89
Apr 18th 2008, 10:07 PM
<<Tell me, the foolish ones, what did they do with the oil? did they ever have oil in themselves? >>

Apparently they did not put oil in their vessels (in themselves). They did not seek to be baptized or filled with the Holy Ghost. That is why I said read Acts 8:12-17 to see that there is a group of believers that did not have the HS baptism. The confirmation of our faith is receiving the promise of the HS. Read Rom 1:11 and 1Cor 1:6-8 which speak of this confirmation through the infilling of the HS.

The same disciples that got filled with the HS in Acts 2, got re-filled again in Acts 4:31. That's how to do business (Eph 5:18 ... be filled with the Spirit!)

<<Have they ever received Jesus Christ as Saviour? >>

I do not think so. The Bible speaks of people (the seed that feel on the rocks is a good example) that received the word of God with joy, believe FOR A WHILE!, but they have no root, and when trials come they fall away. See Luke 8:13

Lk 8:13 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=42&CHAP=8&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

<<Why were they not part of the bride - it seems they were guests - all 10 of them?>>

Some people do not have saving faith. See Heb 10:38-39 talks about that. Those that have the Spirit of God belong to Him (Rom 8:9).

Shalom

walked
Apr 19th 2008, 02:08 AM
Hi Yolande~ (http://bibleforums.org/member.php?u=25354), I've only read the first page and a half of the thread before posting this so, forgive me if anything I post is redundant to what has already been posted prior to my post.

The lesson revealed to me in this parable of the ten virgins is that the oil is the fuel for the light needed by these virgins to watch to see the bride coming, and/or the light needed to identify if the bridegroom is indeed the true bridegroom.
To use this parable in my everyday practical living is to feed/fuel the reborn Spirit deposited in me, by me daily feeding on His written word to fuel that reborn Spirit deposited in me... So when darkness or drought comes I will have the fuel needed for light to see and discern in the darkness or drought when it comes, and it will come.


The parable of the wedding and the guest's might bring a storm of controversy, but I will risk it.
God has an elect who were chosen by Him even before they were born of woman, they were chosen by Him (they did not chose!, they were chosen!) chosen by Him to witness of His truth to His creation with His power and His authority, there are now His elect walking earth just as there was in the ages past, which He passionately refers to as His remnant or to an individual elect as my chosen vessel, those who were (chosen by Him) even before they were born of woman.
This next thing I say may on the surface sound elitist but it is not, all of His creation is His to do with as He chooses, we were created for His pleasure, and the clay can not ask the potter: why have you made me this way.
That being said the guest's are those who were invited by God and decided to come and to trust and use the robe Christ provides to enter: Christ work/His sacrifice to cover their sin before Gods eyes to enter into the wedding, those who try to enter who are not wearing the robe Christ provided by His sacrifice will be detected by God, bound and cast out.

All men can be saved by Christ and be restored to enter into the presence and fellowship of God, if they trust in His salvation and be obedient to what He says. But those men and women are adopted into His family by their trust in Christ and their obedience to Him, (they chose) to except Gods invitation/offer of salvation after they were born of woman.
Gods elect are the ones (chosen by Him) before they were born of woman. These knew God while they were still in the womb of woman and God knew them while they were still in the womb of woman (before they were born).

danield
Apr 26th 2008, 12:22 AM
Matthew 25:1-13 NLT Matthew 25:1 "The Kingdom of Heaven can be illustrated by the story of ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 The five who were foolish didn't take enough olive oil for their lamps, 4 but the other five were wise enough to take along extra oil. 5 When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 "At midnight they were roused by the shout, 'Look, the bridegroom is coming! Come out and meet him!' 7 "All the bridesmaids got up and prepared their lamps. 8 Then the five foolish ones asked the others, 'Please give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.' 9 "But the others replied, 'We don't have enough for all of us. Go to a shop and buy some for yourselves.' 10 "But while they were gone to buy oil, the bridegroom came. Then those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was locked. 11 Later, when the other five bridesmaids returned, they stood outside, calling, 'Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!' 12 "But he called back, 'Believe me, I don't know you!' 13 "So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of my return.

I think this passage refers to the end times because it follows such a passionate passage about his second coming.

I see the first 5 foolish virgins as people who believe in Christ and love Christ but lack the oil (Love and faith) to make it through the tribulation when there is great tribulation and persecution. He calls them foolish because they believe in foolish things. I do not want to say what is foolish because it will offend some Christians.

I think the 5 virgins are those who love and believe in Christ and have great faith in Christ no matter what happens. They are not foolish as some young wives are about their marriage. Their union with Christ will come with persecution, but they will love Christ no matter what they have to endure.

The lamp is a representation of making it through life when times are dark... The tribulation is a very dark and hard time for us Christians. We will need a full lamp of love and faith to endure to the end for our lord and savior!

The marriage feast is the return of the lord of his second coming.

And the five bridesmades who are knocking at his door at the second coming are the ones who denied Christ during the tribulation and were out looking for love for their lord and savior when times got tough.

And finally, They wanted to be married to Christ but he would not let them in.

tgallison
Apr 26th 2008, 12:58 AM
This is one particular parable in the bible, I do not have much revelation about yet.

Those 5 virgins who did not make it were pure (else they would not be virgins)
They were waiting for Jesus (they had their eyes on Him)
They had the oil (which may mean the Holy Spirit, I don't know).
They had one problem : they did not have enough

And then JEsus said to them He never knew them, for they were not ready when He came....Help please, if you have more insight into this...

Now, while I am on the topic, I have another question that relates.

On a wedding there are
1) The bridegroom (we know that is JEsus)
2) Friend of the bridegroom (I suppose that is John the baptist) Joh 3:29
3) The one that presents the bride to the bridegroom (I understand that as being Paul) 2 Cor 11:2
4) The bride itself (I see that as those who are in Christ)
5) The guests (There is a parable about guests, and one were not clothed properly and was casted out)...who do you see as the guests? Matt 22:11
6) The Father of the bride and bridegroom (which is God the Father)


Please tell me where you agree or disagree or have any additional revelation to add in from your understanding from scripture and private discussions with our loving Father. I long to have greater understanding on this.

Yolande Greetings

This is pure speculation on my part.

The quests represent the Gentile world, only after the rejection of Jesus by Israel, were the Gentiles invited. If all Gentiles are now invited, but many have not excepted Christ, then many will not be clothed in the righteousness of God. Thus they will not have on the wedding garment.

Remember it is Israel that was betrothed to Christ. (I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.)

terrell

9Marksfan
Apr 26th 2008, 05:29 PM
Yolande Greetings

This is pure speculation on my part.

You said it! Is it a good idea to speculate?


Remember it is Israel that was betrothed to Christ. (I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.)

terrell


Er, what about "I have OTHER sheep who are not of this fold - them MUST I bring ALSO" - THAT'S surely the Gentiles - and isn't the bride of Christ ONE body, made up of both Jew and Gentile (Eph 2)?

tgallison
Apr 26th 2008, 06:35 PM
You said it! Is it a good idea to speculate?

[color=black]

Er, what about "I have OTHER sheep who are not of this fold - them MUST I bring ALSO" - THAT'S surely the Gentiles - and isn't the bride of Christ ONE body, made up of both Jew and Gentile (Eph 2)?

Nigel greetings

Speculation is just that, maybe it isn't good, but we only know in part. There is more we don't know, then do know.

It is a parable, perhaps you could expound to us exactly who those quests are that needed wedding garments, and what those wedding garments are made of.

Perhaps you could explain [COLOR=Red]Romans 3:30 "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."

Also Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

terrell

Ta-An
Apr 26th 2008, 07:14 PM
Another long thread on this topic ;) http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=111981&highlight=virgins