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ChristianKnight
Mar 22nd 2008, 10:59 PM
My parents told me they have had Jehovah Witness come to our house once or twice, I just want to ask this about it. What should one do if they do come? Should I try to talk to them outside about god religions and stuff, and try to understand why they don't believen Jesus?

I find it kinda funny that they have a tier in their religion, something like Watch Tower, some kind of magazine or something that they read and follow?

David Taylor
Mar 22nd 2008, 11:11 PM
"Watchtower" is their Organization that dictates their teachings.

..."Watchtower BIble and Tract Society, Brooklyn, NY"

The overall origination of the group, was a splinter group of the Seventh Day Adventists, which was formed by 19th centurist Charles Taze Russell.

There are alot of false teaching that come along with this group; but most of them can be avoided and put on the shelf so that their primary short-coming can and should be focused on----and that single point is the nature of Jesus Christ.

You see, the Watchtower, and all JW members, teach/are taught that jesus is not God; but is a created being, a 'little god' but not God Almighty.

Their jesus is someone who cannot save himself from his own sins, much less be the sufficient saviour for all of our sins.

So their quandry, is that they follow an organization which has a false-jesus, who is not the real jesus; and after that, all of their other odd teachings (the 144K, Satan/Michael, blood transfusions, holidays, birthdays, military service, soul-sleep, annhilationism, NWT translation Saturday Sabbath, etc....) are really irrellenvant.

Their following the wrong jesus; and not believing and following the true Eternal Jesus of the Bible, is where they are in need of our help.

If this is something you see as a personal desire to reach out to these visitors, and to attempt to help them; then you should spend several hours reading up on them, their history, their beliefs, and then start building with much prayer and self-study; pertinant scriptures them share with them.

Focus solely on the nature of Jesus though, because that is the cornerstone of the entire problem with their view; and when they come to know and accept the true Jesus; then all that other stuff will fall away.

Hope that helps you get started.

Any particular questions, feel free to ask. I'm from a totally Baptist background myself, but have done alot of research and reading about the various false religions and cults out there, what they believe, and have shared with alot of them in the past.

MidnightsPaleGlow
Mar 23rd 2008, 12:16 AM
I personally would greet them at the door with a copy of the REAL Bible, the REAL word of God and point out the fact that they're deceived and need the REAL Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, not in a condemning way though. I know someone who (or so he claims, and I don't necessarily agree with what he did) actually took one of their pamphlets from them and torched it in front of them.

ChristianKnight
Mar 23rd 2008, 12:50 AM
I personally would greet them at the door with a copy of the REAL Bible, the REAL word of God and point out the fact that they're deceived and need the REAL Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, not in a condemning way though. I know someone who (or so he claims, and I don't necessarily agree with what he did) actually took one of their pamphlets from them and torched it in front of them.

I'd do it, but what if they wanted to duke? I mean I can duke good, but thats not good to fight if it can be avoided.

Nyoka
Mar 23rd 2008, 01:29 AM
You have been given good advice here. The only thing I can add is that there is one other thing that closes JW's of from hearing you. This is the fact that if they believe what you say about Jesus then they must leave the JW's. If they do leave the group then NO-ONE in JW's will have anything to do with them. This usually means they must give up parents, spouses, children, etc. This is not an easy choice for them. If you do decide to go ahead and speak to them please remember what you are asking of them and do it in love. People have left the JW's so it isn't impossible.

ChristianKnight
Mar 23rd 2008, 01:44 AM
Well, I am not trying to convert them, but trying to let them know I don't believe their crap, and that they need to leave people alone.

cheech
Mar 23rd 2008, 01:45 AM
I use to avoid them by not answering the door...then I became closer to Christ and changed my ways. I usually talked with them at the door, informing them of my belief in Christ what what I believed. That was usually all it took. But there was one day not long after I was saved that I believe I was tested. A JW (female) came to the door wanting to talk to me. I let her in and we talked. I didn't know alot about the bible at the time and was just starting to read it. She told me some stuff that didn't seem quite right from what I remember learning in church but who was I to say as I didn't know the Bible well. She asked if she could come again the next day and I said ok with the idea that I was going to research what she had said and talk to her the next day about it. In the meantime I went to my neighbor who was a Baptist and more into the Bible than I at the time and talked to her about what had happened. She gave me some good things to talk about and said to say what her mother usually says "Jesus is my Lord and Savior, what more can you offer me?".

Soooooo the next day she came back and had a young girl with her (probably a trainee). She began talking and I began responding with things I found in the Bible that kind of contradicted what she had said. She became angry and raised her voice some. The poor young girl next to her looked at her with wide eyes and obviously a bit shocked. She finally got up and went to the door and I whipped out the final words "I have Christ as my Lord and Savior, what more can you offer me?" I believe she said "I can offer you teaching, classes..." etc etc etc" :rolleyes:. I replied "why can't you be my friend without trying to convert me?" She didn't like that idea :lol:. With a raised voice she said "well can I come back tomorrow?" and I said "NO!". I never saw her again.

That was the only bad experience I've ever had with JW's. I have never had any problems with Mormon's who came to my door. I always invited them in, gave them a drink and talked with them. Once they heard my beliefs they said "Well, it sounds as if you are on the right track...thanks for the drink!" :lol: We lived in KS at the time and they would walk or ride their bikes in the hot noon day sun so they appreciated a cook house and drink :lol:.

There will always be those who will disagree with your beliefs but I will never turn anyone away who wants to talk about God. I treat people of other faiths with respect...the same way I'd want to be treated. Sometimes you never know the seed you might plant within them ;).

thethinker
Mar 26th 2008, 09:03 PM
Well, I am not trying to convert them, but trying to let them know I don't believe their crap, and that they need to leave people alone.

We should be ready to give an answer to every man for the reason for the hope that is within us. But if you're not prepared from the Scriptures and knowledgable of their teachings and their reasoning, then you should wait until you are prepared.

For if you're not prepared they'll make minced meat of you.

HisLeast
Mar 26th 2008, 09:18 PM
For if you're not prepared they'll make minced meat of you.

Quoted for truth.

By "prepared" we should be clear that we mean: well versed in our scriptures, and not just confident in our faith. They have very different interpretations of our scriptures and their churches are adamantine about drilling it into their people. If they're coming to your door, they've spent a significant amount of their spare time in study. I wouldn't open a debate with that unless I had put in at least an equal amount of effort.

tango
Mar 26th 2008, 09:42 PM
My parents told me they have had Jehovah Witness come to our house once or twice, I just want to ask this about it. What should one do if they do come? Should I try to talk to them outside about god religions and stuff, and try to understand why they don't believen Jesus?

I find it kinda funny that they have a tier in their religion, something like Watch Tower, some kind of magazine or something that they read and follow?

A lot depends on your outlook. One way is to get rid of them as fast as possible.

Another way is something I used to do with Hare Krishnas in town, which was to talk to them at excruciating length until either they had contradicted themselves so many times they had no remaining credibility or they decided they had spent enough time on me and it was time to talk to someone else. Either way while they were talking to me, they weren't talking to someone else who might have joined up with them.

thethinker
Mar 26th 2008, 10:41 PM
Quoted for truth.

By "prepared" we should be clear that we mean: well versed in our scriptures, and not just confident in our faith. They have very different interpretations of our scriptures and their churches are adamantine about drilling it into their people. If they're coming to your door, they've spent a significant amount of their spare time in study. I wouldn't open a debate with that unless I had put in at least an equal amount of effort.

Exactly! They indoctrinate their people very well. I discourse with them and even their women know their stuff. I ask myself, "Why is it that Christian women are not as good in giving a defense"?

Their women have made me go back to the Bible and study. Again I ask: Why is it that Christians are not as prepared? :confused

PyrK
Mar 27th 2008, 07:01 AM
My parents told me they have had Jehovah Witness come to our house once or twice, I just want to ask this about it. What should one do if they do come? Should I try to talk to them outside about god religions and stuff, and try to understand why they don't believen Jesus?

I find it kinda funny that they have a tier in their religion, something like Watch Tower, some kind of magazine or something that they read and follow?

I would just simply tell them that the true name of God (they know it to be Jehovah) is now, a well-known mistranslation. YHWH (the tetragrammaton) is likely to be pronounced "Yahweh." There's still some debate [hardly a whisper, but it's there] but none of the debate argues for "Jehova" as the pronunciation. It's been traced back to ~middle ages.

Then I would give them the most stoic look possible hoping to give them the impression that they need to go out and seek the truth.

daughter
Mar 27th 2008, 08:19 AM
Exactly! They indoctrinate their people very well. I discourse with them and even their women know their stuff. I ask myself, "Why is it that Christian women are not as good in giving a defense"?

Their women have made me go back to the Bible and study. Again I ask: Why is it that Christians are not as prepared? :confused
Even their women? Wow... is this a US thing? Because most of the best Christian witnesses I know are in fact women! It was in fact a woman who explained to me what was happening when I first started fumbling towards God, and who led me to Christ.

thethinker
Mar 27th 2008, 06:55 PM
Even their women? Wow... is this a US thing? Because most of the best Christian witnesses I know are in fact women! It was in fact a woman who explained to me what was happening when I first started fumbling towards God, and who led me to Christ.

Sorry if my post appeared sexist. I was speaking about Christian women as apologists and not as witnesses for Christ. There is a difference. I deal with JWs and have found that the women they send out really know their stuff and that they're very good apologists.

PilgrimPastor
Mar 28th 2008, 02:59 AM
My parents told me they have had Jehovah Witness come to our house once or twice, I just want to ask this about it. What should one do if they do come? Should I try to talk to them outside about god religions and stuff, and try to understand why they don't believen Jesus?

I find it kinda funny that they have a tier in their religion, something like Watch Tower, some kind of magazine or something that they read and follow?

My advice to you would be to first educate yourself on the differences between the traditional Christian faith of the Bible and this cult. Cult may sound like strong language but they fit the criteria to be classified as a cult.

The central difference is their denial of the deity of Jesus Christ. This is essential because if he is not God then he can not die for our sins and their no forgiveness of sins for any of us.

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:13-19 NKJV)

Some say that "This Rock" is Peter; I would assert to you that the rock Jesus spoke of in this passage is the steadfast saying that Jesus is the Son of God!

"... and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead." (Romans 1:4 NKJV)

Here are a couple of good resources to learn specifics about defending the orthodox Christian faith against JW's.

http://www.carm.org/witnesses.htm

http://contenderministries.org/jehovahswitnesses.php

When in doubt turn to this! :bible:

PilgrimPastor
Mar 28th 2008, 03:03 AM
What should one do if they do come?

I would also suggest that you remember to make it very clear that you are not a prospect for conversion or they WILL come back again and again and again....

I had a lady come to my house a few years ago and even after I invited her into my PASTORS STUDY and showed her all of my apologetic books and tried to persuade her toward the biblical faith she still kept coming back... :B

I eventually wrote a letter to the local Kingdom Hall and told them to stop sending nice old ladies to my house! The letter worked.

ChristianKnight
Mar 28th 2008, 06:39 AM
Orthodox? I thought that was a Denomination? I am Baptist? isn't that protestant?

ChristianKnight
Mar 28th 2008, 06:40 AM
I would also suggest that you remember to make it very clear that you are not a prospect for conversion or they WILL come back again and again and again....

I had a lady come to my house a few years ago and even after I invited her into my PASTORS STUDY and showed her all of my apologetic books and tried to persuade her toward the biblical faith she still kept coming back... :B

I eventually wrote a letter to the local Kingdom Hall and told them to stop sending nice old ladies to my house! The letter worked.

Well, if they did that to me, I'd tell them to leave me alone or I'd either report them for harrasement, or fight em, not women though, it's wrong to hurt a girl.

MyRock
Mar 28th 2008, 10:00 AM
I would imagine that you must be joking about fighting them? That wouldn't be a good witness.

I am going for lunch with my work collegue after work next week who is a JW.

One thing I am going to ask him is if he can honestly tell me he believes in what the Watchtower tell him, even though....

1. They have prophesied to them events that would come to pass which haven't. (This contravines the passage about how you can tell if a prophet comes from God.)

2. They have twisted scholarly quotes against their translation to make it look like they are for it.

3. Only scripture verses relating to Jesus and His deity have been changed.

4. They aren't allowed to study the bible on their own or with anyone outside their organisation because they will come to believe in the trinity. (or other apostate doctrines)

5. The people who run the organisation are human (therefore sinful). In light of that how can you trust them without testing them to see if they acually come from God?

JW's only look in one place. The watchtower. All the (negative) things they pick up about Christianity only come from them. All their bible study notes come from them. EVERYTHING comes from them. That's a whole lot of trust in light of the above points.

Please pray for me everyone. I believe the best thing to do is to show the organisation in a bad light. (which they kind of do themselves anyway)
That is where they put their trust, not in God and what He says.

He says it in the bible, what else do we need?

graceforme
Mar 28th 2008, 11:31 AM
One thing you'd better know - the JW's start training their children at a young age, and they train them well. We Christians should train our children so thoroughly, and follow our own beliefs and convictions so completely. They are so well-versed in what they believe that, unless you are as well-versed in Scripture, they will literally "beat you up" with your own Bible.

They can take Scripture and "prove" every point they make. Unless you are equipped to do the same with the Bible, better not enter into a debate with them. It could easily destroy any credibility you might have with them, and makes their case even stronger.

I used to clerk in a laundromat where people brought in magazines to have on the shelves. One lady constantly brought in the Watchtower. I would take it right off the shelf and throw it away. Also, I frequent thrift shops and when I find their books on the shelf, I buy them and destroy them. I hope this keeps some unexpecting person who doesn't see their error from reading them and being led wrong. In this small way, I feel like I'm doing something to "thwart" their cause.

ChristianKnight
Mar 28th 2008, 12:39 PM
One thing you'd better know - the JW's start training their children at a young age, and they train them well. We Christians should train our children so thoroughly, and follow our own beliefs and convictions so completely. They are so well-versed in what they believe that, unless you are as well-versed in Scripture, they will literally "beat you up" with your own Bible.

They can take Scripture and "prove" every point they make. Unless you are equipped to do the same with the Bible, better not enter into a debate with them. It could easily destroy any credibility you might have with them, and makes their case even stronger.

I used to clerk in a laundromat where people brought in magazines to have on the shelves. One lady constantly brought in the Watchtower. I would take it right off the shelf and throw it away. Also, I frequent thrift shops and when I find their books on the shelf, I buy them and destroy them. I hope this keeps some unexpecting person who doesn't see their error from reading them and being led wrong. In this small way, I feel like I'm doing something to "thwart" their cause.

Train? Church is not to train kids to fight other religious peoples. Church is learn and study the bible..

I personally, would first ask them why the "Watchtower" is so much more precise than the bible that they follow it.

HisLeast
Mar 28th 2008, 01:40 PM
Train? Church is not to train kids to fight other religious peoples. Church is learn and study the bible..

And why is it so important to learn and study the bible? Because we will be doing battle with what it teaches, with religious people or not. Church is also for so much more than learning and study.

PilgrimPastor
Mar 28th 2008, 02:59 PM
Orthodox? I thought that was a Denomination? I am Baptist? isn't that protestant?

Orthodox also means mainstream, accepted, or central to generally accepted as biblical Christianity. It is the group of folks who are generally accepted as holding to the central truths of the faith.

HisLeast
Mar 28th 2008, 03:05 PM
Orthodox also means mainstream, accepted, or central to generally accepted as biblical Christianity. It is the group of folks who are generally accepted as holding to the central truths of the faith.

I'd substitute "mainstream" with "traditional"... as mainstream tends to change with fashion.

thethinker
Mar 28th 2008, 04:46 PM
I would also suggest that you remember to make it very clear that you are not a prospect for conversion or they WILL come back again and again and again....

I had a lady come to my house a few years ago and even after I invited her into my PASTORS STUDY and showed her all of my apologetic books and tried to persuade her toward the biblical faith she still kept coming back... :B

I eventually wrote a letter to the local Kingdom Hall and told them to stop sending nice old ladies to my house! The letter worked.

PP,
You say that JWs will keep coming back "again and again and again" if we don't make it clear that we are not a prospect for conversion. Your statement is true as far as it goes.

However, if you give a compelling defense the first time around you will shut his mouth and he won't come back.

For instance, my daughter had been witnessing to a JW classmate named Abby in her high school. My daughter gave a good apologetic that caused Abby to doubt. Abby even said that she was unsure and wanted her dad to meet with me and discuss Christ's Person.

Before I know it Abby and her father appear at my front door. I invited them in and we discussed the Scriptures. Abby's father said that the Christian Bible wrongly attributes deity to Christ. So I opened his own translation of Isaiah 44:6 which says,

"This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him [Israel]...."

Then I asked him if he was acquainted with the term "Repurchaser" or "Redeemer". He agreed that the "Repurchaser" was the KINSMAN REDEEMER, THE BLOOD RELATIVE Purchaser.

He affirmed again that he knew what "goel" [blood relative purchaser] meant. Then I pointed out to him that "goel", or "blood relative" is identified as "Jehovah". Abby's father agreed.

Then I asked him, "Did Jehovah the Father become our "blood relative"? Or was Christ our "blood relative"? He was speechless. He said that he would look in to it and come back. He has not come back to this day. He also forbade his daughter Abby to associate with my daughter at school.

If keeping JW's from coming back is your goal then there is more than one way. You can say "I am not open to being converted". Or you can write a letter. Or you can give a defense that shuts his mouth.

I prefer that Christians shut the mouths of the adversaries. The one that shuts a mouth is knowledgeable and able to defend his faith. We are called to be "ready". We are not called to run.

PilgrimPastor
Mar 28th 2008, 08:01 PM
I'd substitute "mainstream" with "traditional"... as mainstream tends to change with fashion.

Good thought; traditional is probably a better word.

graceforme
Mar 28th 2008, 08:03 PM
Train? Church is not to train kids to fight other religious peoples. Church is learn and study the bible..

I personally, would first ask them why the "Watchtower" is so much more precise than the bible that they follow it.



Not train kids to stand up against false religion? That's one of the things we'd better be teaching our children in church! We are there, not only to learn and edify one another, but to gain strength to fight the devil and his cohorts. If we don't train our kids about how to fight against false religions, they'll be lost the first time they're faced with someone like a JW or a Mormon who will have a very strong defense for what they believe. Scripture says we'd should always have an answer for the faith we have. And the best place to learn that is in a good, well-grounded church. I teach Sunday School and we often discuss these issues.


God Bless.

ChristianKnight
Mar 28th 2008, 08:32 PM
Not train kids to stand up against false religion? That's one of the things we'd better be teaching our children in church! We are there, not only to learn and edify one another, but to gain strength to fight the devil and his cohorts. If we don't train our kids about how to fight against false religions, they'll be lost the first time they're faced with someone like a JW or a Mormon who will have a very strong defense for what they believe. Scripture says we'd should always have an answer for the faith we have. And the best place to learn that is in a good, well-grounded church. I teach Sunday School and we often discuss these issues.


God Bless.

JW's are more offensive I thought? I mean don't they usually answer a question with a question and try to make you see why they worship what they do?

btw: Don't they believe that Jesus was a Prophet, not God's Son? like he wansn't powerful?

thethinker
Mar 29th 2008, 08:36 AM
JW's are more offensive I thought? I mean don't they usually answer a question with a question and try to make you see why they worship what they do?

btw: Don't they believe that Jesus was a Prophet, not God's Son? like he wansn't powerful?


JWs claim That jesus is the Son of God. But for them the term "Son" implies that Jesus was created when it actually implies His Divinity. I ask JWs all the time if Jesus was the Son of Man and they answer in the affirmative. Then I say, "Was He man"? Again, they answer in the affirmative.

Son of man = Man

Son of God = God

The JWs err in that they apply the term "son" in the sense of sons having a beginning. But fathers also have a beginning. So the term "Son" in reference to Jesus refers to His being the same "kind" as His Father. The term "only begotten Son" in reference to Jesus clearly indicates that Jesus is the same "kind" as God.

The NASB and the NIV and other translations that omit "genes" (begotten) obscure the truth that the One "begotten" is the SAME IN KIND.

graceforme
Mar 29th 2008, 09:47 AM
JWs claim That jesus is the Son of God. But for them the term "Son" implies that Jesus was created when it actually implies His Divinity. I ask JWs all the time if Jesus was the Son of Man and they answer in the affirmative. Then I say, "Was He man"? Again, they answer in the affirmative.

Son of man = Man

Son of God = God

The JWs err in that they apply the term "son" in the sense of sons having a beginning. But fathers also have a beginning. So the term "Son" in reference to Jesus refers to His being the same "kind" as His Father. The term "only begotten Son" in reference to Jesus clearly indicates that Jesus is the same "kind" as God.

The NASB and the NIV and other translations that omit "genes" (begotten) obscure the truth that the One "begotten" is the SAME IN KIND.


This is one of the reasons I don't endorse newer versions of the Bible. If a JW came to someone's door who uses one of these versions that you mentioned, and offered that argument, they would be able to show the person the error of their thinking. And it would validate the JW theory. I don't know if the JW's use versions other than KJV. I've never given that much thought till now.

We need to be strong in our study of Scripture so that we have an answer for them when they "prove" that they are correct in their thinking. Too many of us basically know what we believe, but if confronted with someone who disputes the truth, we don't know where to go to show them WHY we believe what we believe. And this is when the JW's can "beat us up" with Scripture.

God Bless.

thethinker
Mar 29th 2008, 11:49 PM
This is one of the reasons I don't endorse newer versions of the Bible. If a JW came to someone's door who uses one of these versions that you mentioned, and offered that argument, they would be able to show the person the error of their thinking. And it would validate the JW theory. I don't know if the JW's use versions other than KJV. I've never given that much thought till now.

We need to be strong in our study of Scripture so that we have an answer for them when they "prove" that they are correct in their thinking. Too many of us basically know what we believe, but if confronted with someone who disputes the truth, we don't know where to go to show them WHY we believe what we believe. And this is when the JW's can "beat us up" with Scripture.

God Bless.

The JWs use the New World Translation and ironically it translates John 3:16 literally, "only BEGOTTEN" Son. It is their view of the term "son" that prevents them from coming to the truth that "begotten" means that Jesus is the "only Son that is God's KIND".

graceforme
Mar 29th 2008, 11:57 PM
The JWs use the New World Translation and ironically it translates John 3:16 literally, "only BEGOTTEN" Son. It is their view of the term "son" that prevents them from coming to the truth that "begotten" means that Jesus is the "only Son that is God's KIND".


Thanks for posting this information. I wonder if they ever used the KJV before all the others became so popular.

They fully believe that their interpretation is correct, don't they? And, we have to admit, they defend their belief with determination.

Sonshine
Mar 30th 2008, 04:50 PM
There us to be a book out called, "How to witness to a Jehovahs Witness". I don't know if it's still in print or not.

A word of caution, most JW know what the Bible says. If you are going to discuss the Bible with them be prepared. They will use your Bible and show you scriptures that support their beliefs.

thethinker
Mar 30th 2008, 06:28 PM
There us to be a book out called, "How to witness to a Jehovahs Witness". I don't know if it's still in print or not.

A word of caution, most JW know what the Bible says. If you are going to discuss the Bible with them be prepared. They will use your Bible and show you scriptures that support their beliefs.

Yes they do use the Christian Bible. They come to my house with three tools: their translation, the Christian Bible, and the Greek-English interlinear translation.

I use the exact same tools except for the interlinear translation. I prefer the Greek text itself.

Cretan1986
Aug 20th 2008, 11:26 AM
Hello all. I am new here. I am a JW and I found this discussion so I decide to participate. I found an interesting post here and I want some clarifications if it's possible.


1. They have prophesied to them events that would come to pass which haven't. (This contravines the passage about how you can tell if a prophet comes from God.)
Please clarify, is an interpretation of a prophecy, a prophecy?



2. They have twisted scholarly quotes against their translation to make it look like they are for it.
Please tell me what we have misquoted.



3. Only scripture verses relating to Jesus and His deity have been changed.

I suppose you talk about NWT.Give these verses and explain why they could not be translated in the way of NWT.



4. They aren't allowed to study the bible on their own or with anyone outside their organisation because they will come to believe in the trinity. (or other apostate doctrines)

Wrong. Think simple, if you offer me a bible study will I accept? Of course. If I offer you a bible study, will you accept? Also we study the bible on my own. To become and remain a JW you have to study the bible on your own



5. The people who run the organisation are human (therefore sinful). In light of that how can you trust them without testing them to see if they acually come from God?
Before someone become JW test if the teachings of JW are according to the bible.

David Taylor
Aug 20th 2008, 12:03 PM
All this stuff really boils down to one single foundational problem with the JW religion.

They follow a different jesus.

The jesus of the Watchtower is a created bring and not Eternal, divine, God who alone can forgive sins.

Their jesus cant forgive his own sins, much less the sins of all humanity. They augment this deficeit, by creating a works-based religion which cannot save.

Pray that the Holy Spirit will reach this JW's heart to seek and find the real, true Jesus.

Longsufferer
Aug 23rd 2008, 10:42 PM
“…Go not from house to house.”
(Luke.10:7c)

Joe King
Aug 24th 2008, 06:36 AM
Well, I am not trying to convert them, but trying to let them know I don't believe their crap, and that they need to leave people alone.

That's the same attitude Christians, Mormons, Muslims all face. It doesn't make it right. You should simply explain why you disagree by saying that you believe that Jesus is the son of God and died to redeem ALL of mankind. That should end the discussion and make Jesus happy at the same time.

chal
Aug 24th 2008, 10:05 AM
My parents told me they have had Jehovah Witness come to our house once or twice, I just want to ask this about it. What should one do if they do come? Should I try to talk to them outside about god religions and stuff, and try to understand why they don't believen Jesus?

I find it kinda funny that they have a tier in their religion, something like Watch Tower, some kind of magazine or something that they read and follow?

I invited them in. I spent over a year studying with JW's, with the agreement that they would not pressure me into any of their beliefs or ask me to join their church. The result was that I learned about their religion and they learned about mine. They (two different couples) were never rude or obnoxious as JWs are sometimes characterized.

I had to laugh, because at the time, I was working and living in a homeless shelter across the street from a crack (dealer's) house and most of the people in the shelter were more afraid of the JW's at the dooor with their Bibles and their little tracts, than they were of the crack dealers with their drugs and guns on the corner.

chal
Aug 24th 2008, 10:50 AM
“…Go not from house to house.”
(Luke.10:7c)

chal> For consideration;

5 And into whatever house you may enter, first say, Peace to this house.
6 And if a son of peace is truly there, your peace shall rest on it; but if not so, it shall return to you.
7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking the things shared by them; for the laborer is worthy of his hire. Do not move from house to house.

chal> IMO,the context seems to be in reference to food. They could not very well enter into a house without first going to it and I doubt that it means that they should stop presenting the Gospel if the first one refused them.

It seems to be connected to this in the previous verse;

6 And if a son of peace is truly there,

IOW, if a son of peace is there and your peace rests on it, there is no reason to move from house to house, even if you don't like the food.

The problem I have with JWs is not the method of delivery, but the inaccuracy of the content, i.e, denial of Jesus' divinity.

Matthew Henry's Commentary
5. They must receive the kindnesses of those that should entertain them and bid them welcome, 7, 8 (http://bibleforums.org/passagestudy.jsp?action=showRef&type=scripRef&value=+7%2C+8&module=) . "Those that receive the gospel will receive you that preach it, and give you entertainment; you must not think to raise estates, but you may depend upon a subsistence; and," (1.) "Be not shy; do not suspect our welcome, nor be afraid of being troublesome, but eat and drink heartily such things as they give; for, whatever kindness they show you, it is but a small return for the kindness you do them in bringing the glad tidings of peace. You will deserve it, for the labourer is worthy of his hire, the labourer in the work of the ministry is so, if he be indeed a labourer; and it is not an act of charity, but of justice, in those who are taught in the word to communicate to those that teach them" (2.) "Be not nice and curious in your diet: Eat and drink such things as they give ( 7 (http://bibleforums.org/passagestudy.jsp?action=showRef&type=scripRef&value=+7&module=) ), such things as are set before you, 8 (http://bibleforums.org/passagestudy.jsp?action=showRef&type=scripRef&value=+8&module=) . Be thankful for plain food, and do not find fault, though it be not dressed according to art." It ill becomes Christ's disciples to be desirous of dainties. As he has not tied them up to the Pharisees' superstitious fasts, so he has not allowed the luxurious feasts of the Epicureans. Probably, Christ here refers to the traditions of the elders about their meat which were so many that those who observed them were extremely critical, you could hardly set a dish of meat before them, but there was some scruple or other concerning it; but Christ would not have them to regard those things, but eat what was given them, asking no question for conscience' sake.

daughter
Aug 24th 2008, 02:31 PM
Thanks for posting this information. I wonder if they ever used the KJV before all the others became so popular.

They fully believe that their interpretation is correct, don't they? And, we have to admit, they defend their belief with determination.
I've just finished reading an exellent book by a man who was raised in the JW church, called "the Spanking Room." Apparently up till the fifties they used the KJV, but then they got anonymous "scholars" to translate it anew... and having read their version, I can only assume they are not language scholars at all.

I'm going to post a review of the Spanking Room soon, but I can't tell you how depressing the portrayal of life for a JW kid is... Thank God the man was saved. William Coburn - I think he joined this site a while ago. If you want the inside scoop on JWs, you need to read this book.

Krav
Aug 24th 2008, 04:12 PM
I always try and talk with them. I'll invite them in and sometimes they will accept, other times they will not.

However, I've studied Watchtower doctrine and theology for over 10 years. I wouldn't engage them in this way if I was ignorant of their doctrine. I think it was Dr Walter Martin who said,

"the average Witness will twist the average Christian into a doctrinal pretzel in 15 minutes."

That's because JWs receive non-stock instruction on how to challenge Christian's and the historic Christian faith. Most Christians do not have such training and thus end up dumbfounded.

If you want to "bone up" on JWs and the Watchtower a good site for you to visit is http://www.carm.org/witnesses.htm

CARM stands for Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. You can really become informed on a whole wide array of issues over there.

One thing to know is that the forums there are pretty much all debate forums... that's the thrust of the ministry. So, if debate is your thing you might enjoy them. Otherwise, you can stick with the informational aspects of the site. They are really top-notch.

trustingJC
Aug 24th 2008, 09:41 PM
I want to thank everyone who has replied and gave their insight on how to deal with the JW's beliefs. I have learned so much! I have a younger brother who roomed with some JW's while in prison. My brother wasn't strong in his Christian faith and they definitely lead him away from the true Jesus. He was a perfect target. He has since told me that he doesn't believe in the trinity and that Jesus can't be God's son and also God. I know he wasn't 100% converted, but needless to say, what they "preached" to him while in jail has really messed him up with his faith in Jesus. He has told me that he is so lost.

He does like to test me and debate certain scriptures. I know that I have got to start studying God's Word more so that I can boldly answer him when he questions my beliefs. I have been doing a lot of studying of the Bible and I have been learning about what the JW's believe in the past few days. By doing so, my faith in Jesus has grown so much stronger.

So I just wanted to let everyone who posted a reply know what a blessing it was for me for them to do so. God bless each of you!

:hug:

Emanate
Aug 25th 2008, 02:50 AM
I talked some JW's on my porch once. I started talking about the origins of the Hebrew word 'Jehovah' and they thanked me and left.

Joe King
Aug 25th 2008, 03:10 AM
I talked some JW's on my porch once. I started talking about the origins of the Hebrew word 'Jehovah' and they thanked me and left.

:lol::lol: How long did it take you to get to that part?

Cretan1986
Aug 25th 2008, 09:18 AM
I just read a pm from a moderator. I can't see how my post Proselytize or has rude conduct. I can't see what is the problem to ask some questions and get biblical answers. Many of you have shaped an opinion for JW but
1)you never talk to them
2)you get informed by anti-JW sources.
So how can you inform and answer your brothers questions when you have shaped an opinion by one-side source. I didn't register to do anything rude but it doesn't mean that I will not defend my faith when i read misdirected posts.

daughter
Aug 25th 2008, 10:18 AM
Before someone become JW test if the teachings of JW are according to the bible.That is exactly what we should all do... test the spirits.

Cretan, I've been reading Greek for twenty plus years now. I didn't learn from theological sources, I started off because I wanted to read Greek literature, history, etc. So my sources weren't aimed at teaching me a certain doctrinal perspective. I've been Christian for a little over two years, and in that time have really seriously studied things like the doctrine of the trinity, the diety of Christ.

The NWT is diabolically badly translated. I use the term diabolical quite deliberately. It is so badly translated in patches that I can only assume the translators have done it deliberately... or that they are not in fact scholars of linguistics at all.

Anytime that people are described as "worshipping" Jesus, the NWT distorts the text.

Example, read Matthew 2. (Even in your version.) Your translation says that the wise men do obeisance to Him. But the word you translate as "do obeisance" is far stronger than that. προσεκυνησαν means to fall down, prostrate oneself, grovel... and right through the history of the Greek language, this is the behaviour that man has accorded his gods... from Homer, right through, Thucydides and Heroditus use it, it turns up in private letters - it is an act of collapse, utter self denial... prostration, adoration.

But apparently, only when it applies to Jesus, does the word mean something tame and ordinary. Even later on in your own translation NWT translates it correctly... it is only castrated of it's meaning when Jesus is the subject of worship.

And it's not just the wise men who worship Jesus, it's Thomas as well. Stephen, before his martyrdom, PRAYS to Jesus. You can find it there in the book of acts.

This deliberate confusion of words in the NWT is dishonest - and typical. I'm so sorry that you've accepted blindly man made doctrines, and not looked at the evidence yourself. But while you live, you still have the time to find out. Please, you would condemn a catholic for blindly believing the pope. Don't blindly believe the watchtower. On the day of Pentecost Peter said there is only one name under heaven by which men must be saved... and that name is NOT Jehova.

Emanate
Aug 25th 2008, 11:29 AM
It was my lead in. They were greeting me and I asked if they were JWs. Then I asked if they had ever studied the word. It was odd, it was a man and a woman and the woman did all the talking. This is West Texas, I could have been a Pentecostal and started quoting about women keeping silent. Second thought, I should have said that to observe a response.

trustingJC
Aug 25th 2008, 05:32 PM
I just read a pm from a moderator. I can't see how my post Proselytize or has rude conduct. I can't see what is the problem to ask some questions and get biblical answers. Many of you have shaped an opinion for JW but
1)you never talk to them
2)you get informed by anti-JW sources.
So how can you inform and answer your brothers questions when you have shaped an opinion by one-side source. I didn't register to do anything rude but it doesn't mean that I will not defend my faith when i read misdirected posts.


I don't know if your reply was directed towards me or not but let me start by saying that I have talked to JW's. In fact, I used to work with a very nice young lady who was a JW. She never tried to share her beliefs with me, nor I with her. I have had JW's come to my door and I am always polite and so are they. But, once they show me the Watch Tower pamplets I tell them that I am a Christian and strong in my faith. They usually leave after that.

I have no problems with JW's. I love them just as I love any other. We just don't believe in the same Jesus.

My one sided source is the Holy Bible and my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. By studying the Bible I will be able to answer my brother with the truth. He is a grown man and will make his own decisions with what he chooses to believe. My job is to be there when he has questions and to be lead by the Holy Spirit while answering him. :)

Gentile
Aug 25th 2008, 06:21 PM
I have a greeted a few at my door. Now unlike most people on this board who would jam down their beliefs in people's throats and slap them in the face with the REAL word of GOD and think they just did a magical thing, I simply greeted them with a smile. I let them hand me their literature, I kindly said I dont have time to talk right now and we both told each other to have a great day and GOD bless. They walked off happy without a pyscho christian in their face ranting you are wrong!!! and I continued on with my day.

WilliamCoburn
Aug 25th 2008, 07:34 PM
The best response to a JW at your door: (IMO)

“I know you keep track of houses that are not to be called on and I want this house added to that list”

Keep in mind that:
*They believe that Jesus Christ died so that some of the people who become Jehovah’s Witnesses can be saved”. (YES you read that right they believe that their salvation is not guaranteed because it is based on their works)

* They have over 2 hours a week of “sales training” in a very structured environment.

*They believe (as do all good salespeople) that as long as the person is still talking to you a “sale” is still possible.

WilliamCoburn
Aug 25th 2008, 07:38 PM
I've just finished reading an exellent book by a man who was raised in the JW church, called "the Spanking Room." Apparently up till the fifties they used the KJV, but then they got anonymous "scholars" to translate it anew... and having read their version, I can only assume they are not language scholars at all.

I'm going to post a review of the Spanking Room soon, but I can't tell you how depressing the portrayal of life for a JW kid is... Thank God the man was saved. William Coburn - I think he joined this site a while ago. If you want the inside scoop on JWs, you need to read this book.

Thank you for the kind words about my book.

daughter
Aug 25th 2008, 07:51 PM
Your welcome. I just got back from Africa, and the friend who was receiving my mail delivered the book to me... I read it in one sitting. It must have been intensley difficult to write. I hope it was therapeutic.

One thing that came across very strongly was a sense that your mother was dead. It came as a surprise part way through to realise that she wasn't... and I was glad of the fact that you've been able to forgive her, while not forgetting everything that happened. Just to let you know, I've been moved to pray for your mother, because parts of the book made me so sad for her. It wasn't over written at all, but when I read of her wasting her inheritance, wasting her child allowance, wasting so much of her life, on the false hope that the End was indeed going to be within just a few years, I felt very sad for her. It must have been like probing an old wound to write it. How did your mother recieve it?

daughter
Aug 25th 2008, 07:53 PM
I have a greeted a few at my door. Now unlike most people on this board who would jam down their beliefs in people's throats and slap them in the face with the REAL word of GOD and think they just did a magical thing, I simply greeted them with a smile. I let them hand me their literature, I kindly said I dont have time to talk right now and we both told each other to have a great day and GOD bless. They walked off happy without a pyscho christian in their face ranting you are wrong!!! and I continued on with my day.
I keep getting the impression that you don't like us... Who in particular on this board is a psycho Christian? (you say most, so maybe I should be asking who isn't.)

Studyin'2Show
Aug 26th 2008, 01:27 AM
I simply greeted them with a smile. I let them hand me their literature, I kindly said I dont have time to talk right now and we both told each other to have a great day and GOD bless. They walked off happy without a pyscho christian in their face ranting you are wrong!!! and I continued on with my day.How does that save their souls? :hmm: BTW, my mother has a sister who was JW and has a heart to see them saved so she always talks to them. And no, she doesn't simply say you're wrong but rather leads them to passages in their bible that show them. God's word does not return void. Usually the younger ones get wide-eyed as she shows them God's truth while the older ones try to figure some reason to leave. We actually had one tell us, all of a sudden, that she had to go because her mother was sick and she had to take her somewhere. (we thought that was odd since she had just come up and knocked on our door, while evidently knowing she would have no time because her mother was sick) :rolleyes: But then we watched and they headed up the walkway to our neighbor's house. (they didn't know he was a pastor) :D And yes, we did get on the do not call list because they never came back though we would see them in the neighborhood.

God Bless!

IPet2_9
Aug 26th 2008, 04:45 AM
My way of dealing with visiting JW's is very simple: I ask if they are going to Heaven when they die. They will say no. Then I say, "Well, I am going to Heaven. Why would I want to give up my faith for yours which says I won't?"

Joe King
Aug 26th 2008, 05:46 AM
My way of dealing with visiting JW's is very simple: I ask if they are going to Heaven when they die. They will say no. Then I say, "Well, I am going to Heaven. Why would I want to give up my faith for yours which says I won't?"

Yeah, but that argument can be made by anyone against Christianity also. I would reword it to say something like Jesus didn't just die for you.

sharingthegoodnews
Aug 27th 2008, 12:29 AM
Cretan, my guess is someone may have reported you. Notice the red yield on the top right of each reply. It could have been the way you answered using the word "Wrong".
Someone may have taken offense to that. Remember to use your words wisely. Always be respectful, replying using your words seasoned with salt. Col 4:6

It is proper to defend our Faith when based only upon the Bible not mere mans words or accusations. Ephesians 6:17; 1Timothy 6:12; 2 Corinthians 10:4. Jesus was a model at this in his ministry. Keep up the good work and do it making his heart glad. Proverbs 27:11

sharingthegoodnews
Aug 27th 2008, 12:47 AM
This is one of the reasons I don't endorse newer versions of the Bible. If a JW came to someone's door who uses one of these versions that you mentioned, and offered that argument, they would be able to show the person the error of their thinking. And it would validate the JW theory. I don't know if the JW's use versions other than KJV. I've never given that much thought till now.

We need to be strong in our study of Scripture so that we have an answer for them when they "prove" that they are correct in their thinking. Too many of us basically know what we believe, but if confronted with someone who disputes the truth, we don't know where to go to show them WHY we believe what we believe. And this is when the JW's can "beat us up" with Scripture.

God Bless.


Grace, I found this information concerning "begotten son". Since you
are familiar with Greek, would you agree with this information? Thanks!
Oh before I forget, when using the greek lettering for words, could you please translate in english like they do in their meanings? Thanks Again!


The basic Greek word for "only-begotten" used for Jesus and Isaac is mo·no·ge·nes´, from mo´nos, meaning "only," and gi´no·mai, a root word meaning "to generate," "to become (come into being)," Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance.

mo·no·ge·nes´ is defined as: "Only born, only begotten, i.e. an only child."—A Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament, by E. Robinson.

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, edited by Gerhard Kittel, "[Mo·no·ge·nes´] means ‘of sole descent,’ i.e., without brothers or sisters." John 1:18; 3:16, 18; and 1 John 4:9, "the relation of Jesus is not just compared to that of an only child to its father. It is the relation of the only-begotten to the Father." ?

Ozzie
Aug 28th 2008, 04:31 AM
My Bible on the table is visible through the glass door to which the JW's come.I greet them courteously(not that I would wish to greet anyone otherwise,but why so importantly to JW's,is because they have been so brainwashed,they welcome snubs,sadly it means "another star in their crown "to them,if someone is rude to them.If a hot day,I offer a cold drink of water,which they're usually pleased to accept,then I mention,what the Bible says about a drink of water in his name.
One day ,I asked one would he like to pray with me.He said "No,you're one of those who believe in the Trinity"(they have been known to refer to the Triune God as "the 3 headed monster")
Asking the name of their small girl was told Ruby Grace.I replied "Rubies are better than Diamonds,but do you know what Grace means?""No,the reply so I said "God's Righteous at Christ's Expense"! Some months later in a Supermarket,the father of the child asking me again,what it was GRACE meant!
They always offer me their literature,I decline pointing to my Bible on the table,saying that I study it, as it has all the answers,also telling them I'm a believer on the Lord Jesus Christ.
A next door neighbour,(A Cook)to whom I once pointed out to her in her Bible,that the Lord ate a piece of fish & a piece of Honeycombe,he would need a gullet for that(they dont believe the Lord's physical resurrection)I knew being a Cook,that would make her think.She came back to me after showing the passage to "the brothers,at Kingdom Hall",sayinmg they said they dont believe it.Yet it was in their Bible!

IPet2_9
Aug 28th 2008, 04:43 AM
Yeah, but that argument can be made by anyone against Christianity also. I would reword it to say something like Jesus didn't just die for you.This is specifically when speaking with JW's. They believe only 144,000 go to Heaven, and chances are, the two JW's speaking to you do not believe they are among them. Why would you want to give up Jesus Christ and your sure salvation for their faith, which by their own admission offers virtually no assurance of Heaven?

Krav
Aug 30th 2008, 02:22 PM
I just read a pm from a moderator. I can't see how my post Proselytize or has rude conduct. I can't see what is the problem to ask some questions and get biblical answers. Many of you have shaped an opinion for JW but
1)you never talk to them
2)you get informed by anti-JW sources.
So how can you inform and answer your brothers questions when you have shaped an opinion by one-side source. I didn't register to do anything rude but it doesn't mean that I will not defend my faith when i read misdirected posts.

Cretan,

I studied with JWs for 6 months before I was born-again. I know from experience what they teach and how they teach it.

The "anti-JW" sources, for the most part, are spot on in what they share. The majority of these sources are ex-JWs.

Of course, everything must be verified against the Scriptures.

I have a colleague who is JW and we've gone back and forth for years. I have a pretty strong understanding of where they're coming from.

Krav
Aug 30th 2008, 02:31 PM
The NWT is diabolically badly translated. I use the term diabolical quite deliberately. It is so badly translated in patches that I can only assume the translators have done it deliberately... or that they are not in fact scholars of linguistics at all.

Amen. The NWT doesn't even qualify as a "translation." It is simply a botched Bible distorted to reinforce false WT doctrines.

One think you will notice is that JWs like to teach from their publications and simply use the Bible, out of context, as a "proof text."

They can deceive those who are young in the faith or without any spiritual training. But, those who are mature are not tricked so easily.

Krav
Aug 30th 2008, 02:43 PM
Cretan, my guess is someone may have reported you. Notice the red yield on the top right of each reply. It could have been the way you answered using the word "Wrong".
Someone may have taken offense to that. Remember to use your words wisely. Always be respectful, replying using your words seasoned with salt. Col 4:6

Personally, I don't think someone saying "wrong" should be taken as offensive.

I don't think Christ wants us to be overly sensitive as believers. If so, how are we to stand in this current world? If a JW is on your doorstep and says "wrong" to you are you going to slam the door and hide in the bedroom?

I think a better approach is to demonstrate why the JW is "wrong" about saying you are "wrong." :cool:

Rhyfelwr
Aug 30th 2008, 05:02 PM
Also we study the bible on my own.

Hmm...

I'm sure that was just a slip of the tongue but I couldn't resist.

Thaddaeus
Aug 30th 2008, 06:10 PM
ask them who is alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last?
they will say Jehova !
then establish who Jesus is they will usaully respond that Jesus was a prophet or some will say a good teacher. then say let's look at scripture if you use their bible the new world translation. in rev 1:8 their book say saith Jehova

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

then take them to rev.22:13

Re 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


again their book wiil imply that this is Jehova


now go back to rev 1:17-18
Re 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.



now you ask them when did the first and last, the alpha and omega die (verse18 was dead). just a few years ago you would stump them they wouldn't know how to respond but now they will tell you that this is Jesus claiming to be alpha and omega. at this point you nail them by remindinmg them that they just said that Jesus was a great prophet or a good teacher what ever their response was to who is Jesus. then yuo should say something to the fact that if Jesus was claiming to be called by the same name as Jehova then He is not either a great prophet or even a good teacher , but a blaspemer as he was accused. I mean we can't have it both ways either He was Lord God Jehova, or He was a blasphemer. their main doctrine has a big hole in it.

Krav
Aug 30th 2008, 07:06 PM
ask them who is alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last?
they will say Jehova !
then establish who Jesus is they will usaully respond that Jesus was a prophet or some will say a good teacher. then say let's look at scripture if you use their bible the new world translation. in rev 1:8 their book say saith Jehova

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

then take them to rev.22:13

Re 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


again their book wiil imply that this is Jehova


now go back to rev 1:17-18
Re 1:17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.



now you ask them when did the first and last, the alpha and omega die (verse18 was dead). just a few years ago you would stump them they wouldn't know how to respond but now they will tell you that this is Jesus claiming to be alpha and omega. at this point you nail them by remindinmg them that they just said that Jesus was a great prophet or a good teacher what ever their response was to who is Jesus. then yuo should say something to the fact that if Jesus was claiming to be called by the same name as Jehova then He is not either a great prophet or even a good teacher , but a blaspemer as he was accused. I mean we can't have it both ways either He was Lord God Jehova, or He was a blasphemer. their main doctrine has a big hole in it.

Usually they will say something like "but, in what sense was Jesus the first and the last?" They do this to avoid the obvious implication. Sort of like when the Pharisee said, "but, who is my neighbor?"

One thing JWs don't know is that their own NWT calls Jesus Jehovah.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Isaiah 40:3 above is a prophecy about the coming of John the Baptist. John, himself, said so.

Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias (Isaiah), saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

The word "Lord" in verse 3 comes from Isaiah 40:3 where the tetragrammaton (YHVH) is used in the Hebrew. This plainly says that John the Baptist came to "make straight the way of Jehovah." Yet, we all know that it was JESUS's path he came to prepare.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Mat 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

I had a couple of JWs at my door one day and I showed them that passage and they tried to dance around it. Finally, they admitted it saying "SO, Jesus is Jehovah. But, we are out there DOING God's will."

So, they exchanged knowing the true God for their own works. They left and I wonder to this day what became of those two guys. They never came back, but I'm sure their foundation in the WT was shaken. For, how could they go back to the Kingdom Hall and continue to swallow the "Almight God/Mighty God" polytheism of the Watchtower?

GodSeeker
Sep 6th 2008, 03:53 AM
I haven't had a Jehovah's Witness show up at my door in many years. The last time was in 2002 and I was living in Carrollton, GA at the time. I just didn't answer the door. And until I am more versed in Christian debates I will have to continue to not answer the door. But when the time comes that I can hold my own against one, that will be interesting! ;)

Studyin'2Show
Sep 6th 2008, 12:52 PM
I haven't had a Jehovah's Witness show up at my door in many years. The last time was in 2002 and I was living in Carrollton, GA at the time. I just didn't answer the door. And until I am more versed in Christian debates I will have to continue to not answer the door. But when the time comes that I can hold my own against one, that will be interesting! ;)Keep studying His word and hanging around here and I'm sure the Holy Spirit will give you the right words when the time comes. :)

JesusIsLord82
Sep 12th 2008, 02:05 PM
My parents told me they have had Jehovah Witness come to our house once or twice, I just want to ask this about it. What should one do if they do come? Should I try to talk to them outside about god religions and stuff, and try to understand why they don't believen Jesus?

I find it kinda funny that they have a tier in their religion, something like Watch Tower, some kind of magazine or something that they read and follow?

i start quoting Bible verses as soon as i see them walking up. they normally turn around before they even reach my porch

Laish
Sep 13th 2008, 12:12 AM
I have not had any JWs come to the house in years ether. I guess they never returned is; because the last time they came I let my mother in law answer the door . She was visiting from Mexico an speaks no English .:lol:

wesand24
Oct 15th 2008, 10:28 PM
Ask them if they believe their NWT to be true, they will answer , YES.
And then a good passage to bring them to in their own translation is I John 5:1 which reads in the New World Translation as follows "Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God..." It reads truthfully!! EVERYONE!!! Ask them if they believe Jesus is the Christ? maybe you will get a "yes." Well, then your bible says that everyone that believes Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, totally contradictory from the Watch Tower's teaching. You will at least plant a seed with this verse.
They believe that only the 144,000 can be born from God and all other Jehovah witnesses will live on an eternal earth, while the 144,000 get to be in heaven with their good prophet Jesus.