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OscarAnthony
Mar 30th 2008, 01:45 AM
Want to hear a revelation that I received?

Once I almost joined the Watchtower Society (Jehovah's Witnesses), a cult that denies the sovereignty of Jesus Christ and forbids it followers to ever believe that God is three-in-one. How did I get to that point?? Well, I delved into the Watchtower teachings, by visiting their web site. Oh how convincing their teachings sounded! That night, upon dabbling into all that material, I went to bed with a feeling that I may have been wrong after all these years of believing in a three-in-one God. "Wow", I thought to myself, "it seems so true that the Trinitarian doctrine came from the pagans." That was when I thought about becoming a Jehovah's Witness. With all that in mind, I could hardly sleep. Utterly confused was I. Was I wrong after all these years? Or am I right and am I being deceived by the devil?
:confused
At that point, the only thing I could do was pray before taking such a big step. So, I cried out the Jehovah God (the One who created the universe and brought His people out of Egypt). :pray: I said, "Jehovah God, I am so confused. I don't know what to believe now. Please tell me how is it even possible that Jesus is God, yet He is the Son of God. Is the Trinity doctrine really pagan?"
I stood still and heard Jehovah God speaking to my heart.

He told me this: "Am I not all-powerful that I can exist in any form I wish? I created the universe, so nothing is scientifically or spiritually impossible for Me. I can have a Son, and be the same Person as Him. You, as a human being, can only be yourself. Your children can only be themselves. I, on the other hand, can have a thousand sons and be all of them, at the same time. Remember when Satan was once my high-ranking archangel Lucifer. He knew Me very well. When he was cast down from Heaven, he created his own trinity gods in an attempt to replace Me. He has even created his own messiahs, so that they would divert people's attention from Me. Be very careful, Satan is highly deceitful. Even some of the most well-educated Christians are deceived into believing that I am not a triune God. Satan has deceived most Jewish people into believing that same lie about Me, as a way of keeping them from knowing Jesus as the Messiah. The few Jewish people that have followed Me also knew that Jesus and I are the same God, though two distinct Persons. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is also Me. I have been grieved by such a disbelief that My Spirit is more than a force. A force does not have feelings. You and I do. So, do not stray from the truth that I have shown you."

Wow! :idea: That was a revelation! With that, I found peace and reassurance. Before I knew it, I was sound asleep, like Adam. Of course, Jehovah God (the Holy Trinity) didn't remove any of my ribs, no matter how soundly I slept. Now, here I am sharing this revelation with as many people as I possible can.

Nyoka
Mar 30th 2008, 02:46 AM
I am so pleased for you. I always explained to my children like this: with an egg you have the yolk, the white and the shell. You have 3 parts to the egg but no matter how you try to work it you still only have one egg. The yolk feeds the baby chick in the egg equaling the Holy Spirit feeding us in Christ. The white protects the chick equaling Jesus using angels and miracles to protect us and the shell keeps it all together equaling the Father planning and bringing to fulfillment everything He says. They could understand this idea better then.

OscarAnthony
May 3rd 2008, 02:56 AM
I am so pleased for you. I always explained to my children like this: with an egg you have the yolk, the white and the shell. You have 3 parts to the egg but no matter how you try to work it you still only have one egg. The yolk feeds the baby chick in the egg equaling the Holy Spirit feeding us in Christ. The white protects the chick equaling Jesus using angels and miracles to protect us and the shell keeps it all together equaling the Father planning and bringing to fulfillment everything He says. They could understand this idea better then.

Wow! That's a good analogy. Thank you for that.

lynngehringer
May 3rd 2008, 05:16 PM
NYOKA - That is a most excellent analogy and this is what I will teach my grandchildren who are now 4 and 6.

Lynn

"Whatever you did to the least of these, you did to Me."
Matthew 25:40

Roelof
May 13th 2008, 09:14 AM
Want to hear a revelation that I received?



A beautiful revelation :pp:pp:pp

daughter
May 13th 2008, 09:29 AM
Thank you! Can I ask you to pray for a young JW that I'm getting an opportunity to witness to at the local shop? Also, could you pray that when he comes round with an "elder" that I still get to speak the truth of God to them?

Various doctrines that I know they have wrong (I've been looking into this.)

I've discovered that every time anyone worships Jesus in the NT they mistranslate it "do obeisance to." The original word does not mean just "kneel", it means worship. Jesus never tells anyone off for worshipping Him. Why would He? He is God.

So they can only say that Jesus doesn't accept worship by mistranslation.

There are the seven "I AM" statements of Jesus in John... and He says, "fear not, I am" in the original Greek when He's walking across the water.

If He is the "I AM" of Moses, then He's God.

Stephen, the first martyr, prays TO JESUS, in similar language to that used by Jesus when He prayed to God on the cross. If Stephen prayed to Jesus, then either Stephen was an idolator, or Jesus is God. The JW's mistranslate this passage to, as though Stephen was just talking to Jesus... but the original is clear.

John says in his gospel, "through Him all things were made, nothing was made without Him." In that case, who made Jesus, if He was a created being? NOTHING was made but through Jesus, EVERYTHING that exists was created by Jesus. Unless Jesus is God, then this passage makes no sense, because how could a non created being create itself?

So... Jesus is God.

Another thing... they say that the Holy Spirit is just a force, like electricity. How can you grieve an impersonal force? It wouldn't have feelings... you couldn't grieve it.

And now, here's something that I'm looking forward to sharing with the JW's tomorrow (pray it goes okay!)

They say that Jesus was killed on a stake, not a cross.

How many nails would be needed to pierce the wrists if someone was crucified with their arms above their head, as the JW's say happened to Jesus? One nail.

In that case, why does Thomas say, "until I see the marks of the NAILS in his hands..." He uses the plural "nails" twice, which implies that Jesus was crucified on a cross, not a stake. In fact, it's one hundred percent conclusive. But the JW's haven't picked up on it, as far as I can tell, and they haven't edited the plural "nails" out of their own scripture.

This is important because they have made a great deal of doctrine out of how Christians "worship" a pagan image in the cross.

And we can clearly demonstrate from scripture that this isn't true.

chal
May 13th 2008, 10:56 AM
Mathhew 26: 2 <3588> <3588> Ye know <1492> that <3754> after <3326> two <1417> days <2250> is <1096> the feast of the passover <3957> , and <2532> the Son <3588 strong:G5207> of man <3588 strong:G444> is betrayed <3860> to <1519> be crucified <4717>

4717 stauroo stow-ro'-o


from 4716; to impale on the cross; figuratively, to extinguish
(subdue) passion or selfishness:--crucify.
see GREEK for 4716

4716 stauros stow-ros'


from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e.
(specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment);
figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the
atonement of Christ:--cross.
see GREEK for 2476

Definition from " http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=4716 "

1) a cross
1a) a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious
punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the
Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the
time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals,
particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and
abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces,
at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and
peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves
1b) the crucifixion which Christ underwent
2 an upright "stake", esp. a pointed one, used as such in fences or
palisades from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e.
(specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment);
figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the
atonement of Christ:-cross.
see GREEK for 2476 (http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=2476)

OscarAnthony
Jul 14th 2008, 02:18 AM
Thank you! Can I ask you to pray for a young JW that I'm getting an opportunity to witness to at the local shop? Also, could you pray that when he comes round with an "elder" that I still get to speak the truth of God to them?

Various doctrines that I know they have wrong (I've been looking into this.)

I've discovered that every time anyone worships Jesus in the NT they mistranslate it "do obeisance to." The original word does not mean just "kneel", it means worship. Jesus never tells anyone off for worshipping Him. Why would He? He is God.

So they can only say that Jesus doesn't accept worship by mistranslation.

There are the seven "I AM" statements of Jesus in John... and He says, "fear not, I am" in the original Greek when He's walking across the water.

If He is the "I AM" of Moses, then He's God.

Stephen, the first martyr, prays TO JESUS, in similar language to that used by Jesus when He prayed to God on the cross. If Stephen prayed to Jesus, then either Stephen was an idolator, or Jesus is God. The JW's mistranslate this passage to, as though Stephen was just talking to Jesus... but the original is clear.

John says in his gospel, "through Him all things were made, nothing was made without Him." In that case, who made Jesus, if He was a created being? NOTHING was made but through Jesus, EVERYTHING that exists was created by Jesus. Unless Jesus is God, then this passage makes no sense, because how could a non created being create itself?

So... Jesus is God.

Another thing... they say that the Holy Spirit is just a force, like electricity. How can you grieve an impersonal force? It wouldn't have feelings... you couldn't grieve it.

And now, here's something that I'm looking forward to sharing with the JW's tomorrow (pray it goes okay!)

They say that Jesus was killed on a stake, not a cross.

How many nails would be needed to pierce the wrists if someone was crucified with their arms above their head, as the JW's say happened to Jesus? One nail.

In that case, why does Thomas say, "until I see the marks of the NAILS in his hands..." He uses the plural "nails" twice, which implies that Jesus was crucified on a cross, not a stake. In fact, it's one hundred percent conclusive. But the JW's haven't picked up on it, as far as I can tell, and they haven't edited the plural "nails" out of their own scripture.

This is important because they have made a great deal of doctrine out of how Christians "worship" a pagan image in the cross.

And we can clearly demonstrate from scripture that this isn't true.

Wow! That was some good doctrine you came up with. You really studied your stuff. How did it go, when you witnessed to the JW?

Butch5
Jul 14th 2008, 02:52 AM
Thank you! Can I ask you to pray for a young JW that I'm getting an opportunity to witness to at the local shop? Also, could you pray that when he comes round with an "elder" that I still get to speak the truth of God to them?

Various doctrines that I know they have wrong (I've been looking into this.)

I've discovered that every time anyone worships Jesus in the NT they mistranslate it "do obeisance to." The original word does not mean just "kneel", it means worship. Jesus never tells anyone off for worshipping Him. Why would He? He is God.

So they can only say that Jesus doesn't accept worship by mistranslation.

There are the seven "I AM" statements of Jesus in John... and He says, "fear not, I am" in the original Greek when He's walking across the water.

If He is the "I AM" of Moses, then He's God.

Stephen, the first martyr, prays TO JESUS, in similar language to that used by Jesus when He prayed to God on the cross. If Stephen prayed to Jesus, then either Stephen was an idolator, or Jesus is God. The JW's mistranslate this passage to, as though Stephen was just talking to Jesus... but the original is clear.

John says in his gospel, "through Him all things were made, nothing was made without Him." In that case, who made Jesus, if He was a created being? NOTHING was made but through Jesus, EVERYTHING that exists was created by Jesus. Unless Jesus is God, then this passage makes no sense, because how could a non created being create itself?

So... Jesus is God.

Another thing... they say that the Holy Spirit is just a force, like electricity. How can you grieve an impersonal force? It wouldn't have feelings... you couldn't grieve it.

And now, here's something that I'm looking forward to sharing with the JW's tomorrow (pray it goes okay!)

They say that Jesus was killed on a stake, not a cross.

How many nails would be needed to pierce the wrists if someone was crucified with their arms above their head, as the JW's say happened to Jesus? One nail.

In that case, why does Thomas say, "until I see the marks of the NAILS in his hands..." He uses the plural "nails" twice, which implies that Jesus was crucified on a cross, not a stake. In fact, it's one hundred percent conclusive. But the JW's haven't picked up on it, as far as I can tell, and they haven't edited the plural "nails" out of their own scripture.

This is important because they have made a great deal of doctrine out of how Christians "worship" a pagan image in the cross.

And we can clearly demonstrate from scripture that this isn't true.

Hi,

With all due respect, Jesus and the Father cannot be the same person manifested in different ways.

mcgyver
Jul 14th 2008, 05:56 AM
Hi,

With all due respect, Jesus and the Father cannot be the same person manifested in different ways.

I responded to the other thread before I saw this one; but let me ask you a question if I may:

Do you believe the bible teaches that God exists simultaneously as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? (Just trying to see "where you're coming from" :))

Yankee Candle
Jul 14th 2008, 02:39 PM
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three different personalities in the same godhead. Those personalities are distinct and yet they are all One God.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/Martyrs5/Feb2413.jpg

And nature reflects the Creator God in this tri-une essence as a three-fold personality. From the smallest thing we know of, the atom, which is made up of a neutron, proton, and electron, as a three-in-one entity to the largest thing we know about, the universe. It is also three-in-one; height - width -depth.

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" Romans 1:20

Butch5
Jul 14th 2008, 11:09 PM
I responded to the other thread before I saw this one; but let me ask you a question if I may:

Do you believe the bible teaches that God exists simultaneously as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? (Just trying to see "where you're coming from" :))

Yes, that is what I believe.

David Taylor
Jul 14th 2008, 11:13 PM
Yes, that is what I believe.

If what you are saying is 'Oneness' to the detriment of the Trinity, then you might want to re-review here (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=59397) and here (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=61168) before further posting on this.

Oneness isn't an allowed topic for advancement on this board.

If you aren't, then nevermind and have a nice day! :)

Butch5
Jul 14th 2008, 11:41 PM
If what you are saying is 'Oneness' to the detriment of the Trinity, then you might want to re-review here (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=59397) and here (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=61168) before further posting on this.

Oneness isn't an allowed topic for advancement on this board.

If you aren't, then nevermind and have a nice day! :)

I don't know "Oneness." I hold to the Nicene Creed.

The Nicene Creed

The Creed I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made. Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the living and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life; who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spake by the prophets. And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Let me say, in this Creed, Catholicmeans Universal, NOT the Roman Catholic Chirch. It mean the univeral or the one church who's head is Christ

Butch5
Jul 14th 2008, 11:56 PM
Yes, that is what I believe.

I misunderstood what you meant, I hold to the Nicene Creed.

Crispus
Jul 17th 2008, 02:29 PM
Thank you! Can I ask you to pray for a young JW that I'm getting an opportunity to witness to at the local shop? Also, could you pray that when he comes round with an "elder" that I still get to speak the truth of God to them?Hi daughter. One of the best things you can do to witness to JW's is ask them questions. Some of my favorites are about the resurrection. The WT says that Jesus' body was disintegrated, a person is a soul and Jesus' spirit returned to God in the sense that it was in Jehovah's mind.

So what part of Jesus was raised from the dead?

If Jesus' body was dissolved in the tomb then why was the stone rolled away?

When Jesus showed Thomas his hands and feet did Thomas believe that Jesus had been raised in his own body?

The WT says the disciples didn't understand that Jesus had been raised a spirit creature until the day of Pentecost because they hadn't been instructed in spiritual things. Acts 1:3 says "To these also by many positive proofs he showed himself alive after he had suffered, being seen by them throughout forty days and telling the things about the kingdom of God" (NWT).

How could these have been positive proofs if they believed that Jesus had been raised in his own body only to find out later this wasn't the case? Wouldn't this have caused confusion and left a lot of room for doubt?

Ask if Jesus was raised a spirit creature from what place was he raised?

This webpage may be very helpful to you http://www.4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness.php


I've discovered that every time anyone worships Jesus in the NT they mistranslate it "do obeisance to." The original word does not mean just "kneel", it means worship. Jesus never tells anyone off for worshipping Him. Why would He? He is God.The WT says that Jesus chose them as the "faithful and discreet slave" out of all the religions of world in 1919. But the WT taught that Jesus should be worshipped (Hebrews 1:6) until 1954 and translated proskuneo as worship in that verse until the 1971 edition of the NWT.

Ask them if Jesus chose the WT as the only organization he would use why did he allow them to worship him for thirty five years and translate Heb. 1:6 to indicate he should be worshipped for more than fifty years???


Stephen, the first martyr, prays TO JESUS, in similar language to that used by Jesus when He prayed to God on the cross. If Stephen prayed to Jesus, then either Stephen was an idolator, or Jesus is God. The JW's mistranslate this passage to, as though Stephen was just talking to Jesus... but the original is clear.You might also want to point out that Christians in the first century called on the name of Jesus (Acts 9:10-14, 22:16, 1 Cor. 1:2). How can you call on someone if you're not allowed to speak to them? Also, read 2 Cor. 12:7-10; in the NWT verse 8 says "I three times entreated the Lord" and not entreated Jehovah.


John says in his gospel, "through Him all things were made, nothing was made without Him." In that case, who made Jesus, if He was a created being? NOTHING was made but through Jesus, EVERYTHING that exists was created by Jesus. Unless Jesus is God, then this passage makes no sense, because how could a non created being create itself?By adding [other] in Col. 1:16 they created a contradicition to John 1:3 and 1 Cor. 8:6. Speaking of Jesus verse 16 also says "All [other] things have been created through him and for him." But speaking of Jehovah, Romans 11:36 says "...from him and by him and for him are all things" (cf. Deut 10:14, Job 41:11). Ask if all things were made for Jehovah what other things were made for Jesus?


Another thing... they say that the Holy Spirit is just a force, like electricity. How can you grieve an impersonal force? It wouldn't have feelings... you couldn't grieve it.

And now, here's something that I'm looking forward to sharing with the JW's tomorrow (pray it goes okay!)These are verses in the NWT that show the Holy Spirit is a person. The list doesn't include Romans 8:27 which is translated as "meaning of the spirit" instead of "mind of the Spirit", 1 Timothy 4:1 which is translated as “inspired utterance” and 2 Corinthians 13:14 and Philippians 2:1 which are translated as "sharing" instead of fellowship or communion.

The Holy Spirit

(can be) discontent Micah 2:7
(can be) embittered Psalm 106:33
(can be) grieved Eph. 4:30 (cf. 1 Thess 4:13)
(can be) hurt Isaiah 63:10
(can be) outraged Heb 10:29
(can be) known* John 14:17
(can be) lied to Acts 5:3,4 (cf. Heb 6:18)
(can be) received John 14:17, 1 Cor 2:12
(can be) resisted Acts 7:51
(can be) spoken against Matt 12:31,32 Mark 3:29, Lk.12:10
(can be) tested Acts 5:9

is called Eternal John 14:16, Heb. 9:14
is called God: Acts 5:4, 2 Cor. 6:16
is called Jehovah: 2 Cor 3:17-18
is from Heaven Matt 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32
is Holy: Matt 12:32, Acts 5:3, 13:2, Rom. 1:4
is manifested (1 Cor. 12:7)
is our Helper: John 14:16,26, 15:26, 16:7, Phil 1:19 (Paraclete)
is our Token (Deposit): Ephesians 1:14
is Truth: 1 John 5:6 (cf. 1 John 2:20-27)

acts toward man Gen. 6:3
adopts Rom. 8:15
appoints Acts 20:28 (cf. Acts 1:7, 1 Thess 5:9)
baptized in His Name Matt. 28:19
bears witness John 15:26, Heb 10:15, 1 John 5:6
bears witness with Rom. 8:16 (cf. Rom. 2:15, 9:1)
comforts Acts 9:31 (cf. 2 Cor. 1:3)
declares John 16:13-15
desires Gal 5:17
did many other things John 16:12-13
did not permit Acts 16:7 (cf. Acts 14:16)
dispatches Acts 10:20
divinely reveals Luke 2:26
dwells within John 14:17 Rom.8:9-11 (cf. Mark 9:25)
forbids Acts 16:6 (cf. Luke 9:49-50, 11:52, 18:16)
gives life John 6:63, 2 Cor. 3:6
gives (ability) 1 Cor. 12:7-11
glorifies another John 16:13-14
grants Acts 2:4
guides John 16:13
has power (Rom. 15:13)
hears John 16:13 (cf. John 11:42, 1 John 4:6)
helps Rom. 8:26 (cf. Luke 10:40)
inspires 2 Pet 1:21 (cf. Acts 19:6)
instructs Nehemiah 9:20
leads Acts 4:1, Luke 4:1, Rom.8:14, Gal. 5:18
longs (yearns) James 4:5
loves Rom. 15:30 (cf. 1 John 4:8)
makes it plain Heb 9:8, 1 Pet.1:11
makes us new Titus 3:5
pleads Rom. 8:26,27 (cf. Rom.11:2)
raised Christ Rom. 8:11
receives John 16:14,15
remains John 14:17 (cf. 1 John 4:12,15)
reminds John 14:26
reproves John 16:8 (cf. Titus 1:9, Heb 12:5)
reveals 1Cor 2:10 (cf. Gal 1:15, 16)
sanctifies 2 Thess. 2:13
searches 1Cor 2:10 (cf. Rom.8:27, 1 Pet. 1:11)
sends Acts 13:4
shares 2 Cor.13:14
signifies Acts 11:28
snatches away Acts 8:39 (cf. John 10:28,29, 2 Cor 12:2)
speaks (directly) Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 13:2 (cf.19:15)
speaks aptly Acts 28:25
spoke through the prophets (2 Sam 23:2, Acts 1:16, Acts 4:25, Acts 28:25-27)
teaches Luke 12:12, John 14:26 (cf. John 8:28)
thinks Acts 15:28 (cf. Acts 15:25)
thoroughly witnesses Acts 20:23 (cf. Luke 16:28, Acts 2:40)
thrusts out Mark 1:12
(wants us to be) baptized Matt 28:19
wills 1 Cor. 12:11 (cf. 2 Pet. 3:9)
witnesses Acts 5:32 (cf. 2:32, 3:15)

Crispus
Jul 17th 2008, 02:40 PM
They say that Jesus was killed on a stake, not a cross.The best paper on that issue is called Jehovah's Witnesses and the Cross by Leolaia http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/jwcross.pdf (http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/jwcross.pdf)

I did a lot of research on that topic and made a thread on this forum called Jehovah's Witnesses, the Cross and the Torture Stake (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=121666)

OscarAnthony
Nov 18th 2008, 02:24 AM
I responded to the other thread before I saw this one; but let me ask you a question if I may:

Do you believe the bible teaches that God exists simultaneously as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? (Just trying to see "where you're coming from" :))

In Matthew 3:16-17, you read the account of Jesus (God the Son) getting baptized. The Holy Spirit (God the Spirit) descends upon Him, as a voice from Heaven (that's God the Father) says "This is my Son with whom I am well-pleased."

So, in this verse, all three members of the Trinity are there in all their (or should I say His) glory.

Jesus wasn't doing a ventriloquist trick.