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markedward
Mar 30th 2008, 07:51 PM
Many of the earliest followers of the Way only heard about Jesus through word of mouth, and depending on their location, through letters of Paul. They didn't have the four gospels that we have. What Paul taught was all they knew. Some people say that Paul taught a Jesus different than the man we see in the four gospels. This is to compare Paul's gospel with the four gospels.



Teaching of Paul.
Epistle to find the teaching. ::: Gospel passage to compare to.

Jesus is God.
Galatians 2:9 ::: John 1:1-18

God sent His Son, Jesus, born of a woman, and born under the Law.
Galatians 4:4 ::: Matthew 1:18

Jesus was born for the purpose of redeeming the people under the Law.
Galatians 4:4 ::: Matthew 1:21

Jesus was born with a human nature, and He was a descendent of King David.
Romans 1:3 ::: Matthew 1:1

Jesus' most well-known brother was James, but He had others siblings as well.
Galatians 1:19 ::: Matthew 13:55

Simeon Cephas (Simon Peter), and at least some of the apostles and some of Jesus' siblings were married.
1 Corinthians 9:5 ::: Matthew 8:14

The married should not divorce, but if they do, they should not remarry to anyone else.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11 ::: Matthew 19:8-9

Jesus' commanded that those who preached the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
1 Corinthians 9:14 ::: Matthew 10:5-13

Give everyone what you owe him, whether it be taxes, revenue, respect, or honor.
Romans 13:7 ::: Matthew 22:21

The entirety of the Law is summarized as "Love others as you love yourself."
Galatians 5:14 ::: Mark 12:29-31

Jesus did not do away with the Law.
Romans 3:31 ::: Matthew 5:17

Jesus took bread, gave thanksgiving for it, and broke the bread, declaring "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me." Following supper, Jesus took the cup, saying "This is the new covenant in My blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
1 Corinthians 11:23-26 ::: Luke 22:19-20

The same night Jesus broke the bread, He was betrayed.
1 Corinthians 11:23 ::: Luke 22:47-48

Jesus was crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:2 ::: John 19:16-18

Jesus died for the sins of the people.
1 Corinthians 15:3 ::: John 3:16-17

He was buried.
1 Corinthians 15:4 ::: Matthew 27:57-60

He was raised to life on the third day.
1 Corinthians 15:4 ::: Luke 24:1-8

He appeared to Peter.
1 Corinthians 15:5 ::: Luke 24:33-34

Then to the Twelve.
1 Corinthians 15:5 ::: John 20:19-28

Then He appeared to over five hundred of His followers, then to James.
1 Corinthians 15:6-7 ::: Acts 1:3

Then He appeared to all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:7 ::: Luke 24:50

Jesus ascended to heaven.
Ephesians 4:8-10 ::: Luke 24:51

Then He appeared to Paul.
1 Corinthians 15:8 ::: Acts 9:1-5

Salvation comes from placing our faith in Jesus.
Romans 10:9 ::: John 3:16-17

Jesus will judge man according to his deeds.
Romans 2:6 ::: Matthew 16:27

Works alone do not bring salvation.
Galatians 3:11 ::: Matthew 7:22-23

Eternal life is for the selfless, while punishment is for the selfish.
Romans 2:7-8 ::: Matthew 25:31-46

daughter
Mar 31st 2008, 12:03 AM
Thankyou! (15 characters, yadeeyaddaya...)

joztok
Apr 1st 2008, 05:12 AM
Jesus did not do away with the Law.
Romans 3:31 ::: Matthew 5:17


Jesus did not do away with the Law before the cross.
Paul's gospel tells us what happens to it and how it is 'upheld' as to point us back to Christ.

We saw the Law definitely as a teacher.
I study it and have learnt, so far, that the Law

a) Points ALL sinners to Jesus being the perfect sacrifice and has forgiven the whole world's multitude of sin. Fulfilled.
b) Preserved God's people, (the Jew), to bring the promised seed through the Virgin Mary. Fulfilled.
c) Reveals who Christ is and how he accomplished God's work through His death, resurrection and ascension to glory. Fulfilled.

This is what Paul teaches. He gives many examples of this and terms the Law as being 'obsolete'. It is simply a tomb stone above our dead bodies. Look down at that dead body that is layed down by the crucified Christ!
Look next to you and see that Christ is resurrected! You are now living in your new Spiritual Being like Christ.
The Spirit in Him is the same Spirit in us that rose Him up from the Dead to give NEW LIFE!
We should see that the Law did indeed play an important role as now we are born again spiritually.
We leave our old flesh in the tomb and walk in this New Life of the Holy Spirit, the Law- Tombstone with our flesh underneath, behind. We walk in the Law's fulfillment- that's how we uphold it.
We don't need to look to it if we live in it's fullfilment. Being born again takes us out of the grave and brings us into a New Life where we can have the Holy Spirit in us to guide us and be our teacher- to be in fellowship with our creator.

The Spirit abides in us so we can abide in His love, His discipline, His gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, joy and peace, etc. The Law has passed and has dealt with the perfect sacrifice. It's job is done and it is dead and buried! It died 200 years ago with Christ not to rise up again.



Eternal life is for the selfless, while punishment is for the selfish.
Romans 2:7-8 ::: Matthew 25:31-46

No. To Jews no. Jesus was talking to non-believing Jews. This is a prophecy in how he will Judge the nations when he returns the second time to rule as King over Israel. Jews and those who believe and help the Jew shall be saved. Those who reject the Jew (goats) will be judged. Once again, this is dealing with (highly likely), unbelievers. Unbelieving nations.

Rom 2:7-8 is talking to those who ‘reject the truth’ and ‘suppress the truth’ and follow wickedness. In context, it looks as though he was talking about the unrepentant Jew. But it could be the common unbelieving gentile. He encourages believers and blesses believers who do good works but never it is it mentioned that our salvation is lost if we live in selfishness. Taking this logic would be that if I was selfish to hold onto my salvation for the fear of not having eternal life, I would lose my eternal life because I was being selfish.

Part from those qualms, I really like what you’ve put together.

markedward
Apr 1st 2008, 06:33 AM
The Law has passed and has dealt with the perfect sacrifice. It's job is done and it is dead and buried! It died 200 years ago with Christ not to rise up again.But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

As Paul states, the Law is not nullified by our faith. Rather, it is completed through Jesus. Where there is no Law, there is no sin. If the Law did not exist, we would be sinless; but we have knowledge of right and wrong, and thus we sin, and so because we sin, we have need for a Savior. We stand guilty before God on account of the Law, but when we accept Jesus as our Messiah, He stands in our place before God, having taken the full burden of the Law upon Himself.


No. To Jews no. Jesus was talking to non-believing Jews. This is a prophecy in how he will Judge the nations when he returns the second time to rule as King over Israel. Jews and those who believe and help the Jew shall be saved. Those who reject the Jew (goats) will be judged.You initially stated that the Law is "obsolete" and "dead." If the Law is no more, then the Jewish people are not separated from the world simply because they have the Law. If the Law is obsolete, then God does not prefer people simply because they are Jewish. You have just stated that "Jews ... shall be saved." Being a Jew doesn't make a person saved. "Helping" the Jewish doesn't make a person saved. As Paul stated, there is "neither Jew nor Gentile" in the eyes of God; only the followers of Christ, the selfless who give up their lives to Him, and the defiant, who live in their selfishness and ignore Christ's offer for life. Favoritism is not shown to the Jews. People are not saved for being Jewish. People who follow Judiam (i.e., Jews) follow the Law, but you yourself have stated the Law to be "obsolete," so the Jews cling to an "obsolete" thing, and have no salvation unless they have Christ. If they do not have Christ, they are not saved, period. I may be mistaken, so forgive me, but you have suggested that there are two ways to salvation: following Christ, or being Jewish. Jesus is the only way, the one way. If the Law is "obsolete," then being "Jewish" (that is to say, a follower of the Law) is "obsolete."


never it is it mentioned that our salvation is lost if we live in selfishness."But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger."

The people "who are self-seeking" are made distinct from those "who reject the truth and follow evil." But they reap the same consequences of "wrath and anger."


Taking this logic would be that if I was selfish to hold onto my salvation for the fear of not having eternal life, I would lose my eternal life because I was being selfish.I apologize, but I believe you may have misinterpreted me, though of my own fault. When I speak of selfishness, I speak of it synonymously with sin and defiance of God. When I speak of selflessness, I speak of it synonymously with clinging to God's will and accepting His Son and His teachings.

Teke
Apr 1st 2008, 12:32 PM
As Paul states, the Law is not nullified by our faith. Rather, it is completed through Jesus. Where there is no Law, there is no sin. If the Law did not exist, we would be sinless; but we have knowledge of right and wrong, and thus we sin, and so because we sin, we have need for a Savior. We stand guilty before God on account of the Law, but when we accept Jesus as our Messiah, He stands in our place before God, having taken the full burden of the Law upon Himself.

I like the way you worded that, especially the last sentence. Makes good sense as He is both Judge and our High Priest. And this is the way it should be and work for us. If more understood this they'd understand much about His Body the Church.



You initially stated that the Law is "obsolete" and "dead."


Nay, He upholds it and His Body the Church does as well. Tis why we have "canon"/scripture (law guidelines or rules), for our spiritual growth in Him.