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Owen
Apr 3rd 2008, 10:31 AM
Simple question to bring up for discussion. What do you think is the kingdom of God? Is it now or later? What is the purpose of the coming of God's kingdom (whether it has already come or is coming in the future)? How does it come about? Are the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God same thing? Of course be sure to include your Biblical rationale for it.

matthew94
Apr 3rd 2008, 02:37 PM
What do you think is the kingdom of God?

Well, I don't think it was meant to be confusing. The metaphor of a 'kingdom' was used with the exact purpose that we'd understand. A kingdom is the combination of citizens who are under the authority of a king. The Kingdom of God is simply the church under the authority of the Lord.


Is it now or later?

Both. Jesus said the Kingdom was 'at hand' in the 1st century. People were entering into it (by making Him their king/authority). He said it had come (Matt 12:28). But just like any kingdom, there are key dates in which the nature of the kingdom changes. The Cross & Resurrection were key events. AD70 was a key event. At the 2nd Coming, the Kingdom will change and, in a sense, be new.


What is the purpose of the coming of God's kingdom (whether it has already come or is coming in the future)?

All the kingdoms of this world eventually falter. The purpose of the Kingdom of God was and is to create a Kingdom that has no end in which all of humanity is invited to take part.


How does it come about?

Well, it didn't come about like other kingdoms (Luke 17:20-21) in that it came in a largely invisible manner since 'the kingdom is within you.' It came in another sense in AD70. It will come in an even greater (visible) sense at the 2nd Coming.


Are the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God same thing? Of course be sure to include your Biblical rationale for it.

They are the same. Claiming otherwise is just a hobby-horse. Matthew almost always (with 4 exceptions) worded it 'the kingdom of heaven' whereas the other Gospel writers worded it 'the kingdom of God.' They are obviously synonymous since they are found in parallel passages. Here's one of a bunch of examples...


Matthew 13:31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=13&verse=31&version=31&context=verse)
[ The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast ] He told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field.
Mark 4:30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=4&verse=30&version=31&context=verse)
[ The Parable of the Mustard Seed ] Again he said, "What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it?31It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seed you plant in the ground.

grptinHisHand
Apr 3rd 2008, 02:44 PM
Jesus told us to pray for His kingdom to come, for His will to be done.

His kingdom is in our hearts if we are 'in Him', what we call saved. In His kingdom then we are to serve Him as king, ruler of our hearts. Also I believe that we pray "thy kingdom come" in praying for others to be 'saved'.

I have learned a lot about His kingdom in studying a book by Rick Astle, "The Priority of Kingdom-Focused Prayer". I personally know Brother Astle and know he is a godly man with a great message and ministry of prayer.

g

Owen
Apr 3rd 2008, 05:18 PM
Hey Matthew. How have things been going for you?

Let me ask you a few questions, neither necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you.


Well, I don't think it was meant to be confusing. The metaphor of a 'kingdom' was used with the exact purpose that we'd understand. A kingdom is the combination of citizens who are under the authority of a king. The Kingdom of God is simply the church under the authority of the Lord.

First off, what exactly does it look like when it is a "citizens who are under authority of a king?" Secondly, is the church synonymous with the kingdom or do they have some overlap but are somewhat different also?


Both. Jesus said the Kingdom was 'at hand' in the 1st century. People were entering into it (by making Him their king/authority). He said it had come (Matt 12:28). But just like any kingdom, there are key dates in which the nature of the kingdom changes. The Cross & Resurrection were key events. AD70 was a key event. At the 2nd Coming, the Kingdom will change and, in a sense, be new.

You and I agree that it is both. However, this leads to another question. Is the breaking forth (for lack of a better phrase) of the kingdom only instantaneous at certain steps or is there also a gradual process in between the instantaneous steps?


All the kingdoms of this world eventually falter. The purpose of the Kingdom of God was and is to create a Kingdom that has no end in which all of humanity is invited to take part.

Let me rephrase the question. What exactly is the kingdom working towards? You may have the same answer, regardless.


Well, it didn't come about like other kingdoms (Luke 17:20-21) in that it came in a largely invisible manner since 'the kingdom is within you.' It came in another sense in AD70. It will come in an even greater (visible) sense at the 2nd Coming.

But what causes it to come about? Or to speak more formally what are the means that brings the kingdom out?


They are the same. Claiming otherwise is just a hobby-horse. Matthew almost always (with 4 exceptions) worded it 'the kingdom of heaven' whereas the other Gospel writers worded it 'the kingdom of God.' They are obviously synonymous since they are found in parallel passages. Here's one of a bunch of examples...


Matthew 13:31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=13&verse=31&version=31&context=verse)
[ The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast ] He told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field.
Mark 4:30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=4&verse=30&version=31&context=verse)
[ The Parable of the Mustard Seed ] Again he said, "What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it?31It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seed you plant in the ground.

Agreed. So what might this tell us about the notion of heaven?

Alyssa S
Apr 4th 2008, 12:04 AM
Hi Owen!

I am SO glad you have brought this subject up. I am very intrigued by the study of the future Kingdom. I have done some searches on it, and have read many different views and opinions. I am new at researching this, so I don't have much to offer. But I definitely look forward to going along for the ride and seeing what you guys have to say. :)

God bless... Alyssa

RevLogos
Apr 4th 2008, 04:32 AM
Simple question to bring up for discussion. What do you think is the kingdom of God? Is it now or later? What is the purpose of the coming of God's kingdom (whether it has already come or is coming in the future)? How does it come about? Are the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God same thing? Of course be sure to include your Biblical rationale for it.

Hi Owen,

In addition to what you read here, there's a great thread on this started by Brother Mark here:

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=99462

Owen
Apr 4th 2008, 04:40 AM
Hi Owen!

I am SO glad you have brought this subject up. I am very intrigued by the study of the future Kingdom. I have done some searches on it, and have read many different views and opinions. I am new at researching this, so I don't have much to offer. But I definitely look forward to going along for the ride and seeing what you guys have to say. :)

God bless... Alyssa

Hey Alyssa :)

Currently not at my apartment right now, so I can't post it. But in my seminary reading, one of the books I went over is eight different models for the kingdom of God. Can't recall them off the top of my head, but when I get the chance I will post them for you with a brief explanation of each. Not that they are necessarily correct, but they do give us something to think about. And then of course, there will be the hopeful discussion here.

Tanya~
Apr 4th 2008, 04:43 AM
The kingdom of God is a HUGE subject! Much of Jesus' teaching focused on the kingdom. The present state of the kingdom is not the same as the future state of the kingdom. The kingdom as it is now is under the authority of the king, but the king is away and intends to return. Meanwhile, the king has entrusted his servants with his property, and will settle accounts with them when He returns. He will hold His servants accountable for their actions. (e.g., the Parable of the Talents)

At present, there are things in His kingdom that are offensive to Him, which will be removed when He returns.

Matt 13:40-42
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend , and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
NKJV

Jesus spoke of "this age" and of the age to come. Some believe the "age to come" is already here, but the Scripture paints a different picture of what things will look like in the age to come.

Rev 11:15-18
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

"We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
NKJV

Jesusinmyheart
Apr 4th 2008, 01:00 PM
The kingdom of God is heare on earth, and in the making by those who labor in their love for God. It's slow going but it will grow bigger and bigger. As Tanya P said there will be a time when Yeshua returns to claim the kingdom on earth as His Kingdom. There will be an accounting, and there will be consequences.

But it is through God and the Word He left with us, and through the sacrifice that there will be true disciples that will in the end reign this Kingdom on earth with Yeshua as the King.

For now we all should be working towards the goal of creating a Kingdom of God worhty for Him to claim as His bride. It's action and deeds that come from Faith that will count towards that end.

Shalom,
Tanja

markedward
Apr 4th 2008, 03:17 PM
What do you think is the kingdom of God?The eternal rule of God over creation. Daniel 2:44, 7:13-14, 7:22, 7:27, Revelation 11:15.


Is it now or later?It is now. It began in the first century. Matthew 12:28, Matthew 21:32, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27, Luke 11:20.


What is the purpose of the coming of God's kingdom (whether it has already come or is coming in the future)?This is similar to the first question.


How does it come about?The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say 'Here it is' or 'There it is,' for the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:20-21


Are the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God same thing?Yes. The gospels use the terms synonymously. Compare:

Matthew 3:2 - Mark 1:15
Matthew 19:14 - Mark 10:14
Matthew 19:23 - Mark 10:23

matthew94
Apr 4th 2008, 03:38 PM
Hey Matthew. How have things been going for you?

Going great :) thanks for asking. I'm in my 5th year working as the assistant pastor at my home church. We have my favorite bible-teacher coming this sunday from California to do a men's weekend. I may be starting a master's program in the Fall. And I've been dating a great girl for the past 6 or 7 month.


First off, what exactly does it look like when it is a "citizens who are under authority of a king?" Secondly, is the church synonymous with the kingdom or do they have some overlap but are somewhat different also?

I'll answer the 2nd question first. Yes, I think they are synonymous. I answered the 2nd first b/c that answer answers the 1st: It looks like the church :)


You and I agree that it is both. However, this leads to another question. Is the breaking forth (for lack of a better phrase) of the kingdom only instantaneous at certain steps or is there also a gradual process in between the instantaneous steps?

Oh, I certainly think it is a combination of gradual growth with key steps along the way, just like our individual spiritual growth. I think we pray 'thy kingdom come...on earth' DAILY for a reason.


Let me rephrase the question. What exactly is the kingdom working towards? You may have the same answer, regardless.

God is always working towards an increase in the quality and quantity of His Kingdom.


But what causes it to come about? Or to speak more formally what are the means that brings the kingdom out?

Discipleship and Evangelism. Quality and Quantity.




Agreed. So what might this tell us about the notion of heaven?

I think it fits with the rest of what we know, namely, that there will be a new earth where we will forever reside and that residing with God is, by definition, 'heaven'

Teke
Apr 4th 2008, 07:33 PM
Simple question to bring up for discussion. What do you think is the kingdom of God? Is it now or later? What is the purpose of the coming of God's kingdom (whether it has already come or is coming in the future)? How does it come about? Are the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God same thing? Of course be sure to include your Biblical rationale for it.

Hey Owen, good to see you.:hug:

The kingdom of God is a spiritual reality present within the Christian believer and within the community of the church.

Purpose is found in relevance. The kingdom of God is brought near and immediate to us in the Person of Jesus Christ, a radiant spiritual glory throughout creation.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

timmyb
Apr 4th 2008, 07:50 PM
In Matthew 13 Jesus clearly defines in several parables what the Kingdom of Heaven is like. The seed and the sower, the merchant and the pearl... etc.. I need to do a study on Matthew 13...

as far as it being on earth within the believer... I often find a kingdom is based on obedience... The Holy Spirit is God... but we establish the kingdom of God on earth as we are obedient to him... I don't believe that the Kingdom is already on earth... because we are commanded to pray "Thy Kingdom Come Thy Will be Done on Earth as it is in Heaven". Why would Jesus command us to pray for something that has already happened? I know that the kingdom has come to earth in that we can obey God by his spirit but that is a very partial fulfillment of what God wants, like the Acts 2 experience was a partial fulfillment of Joel 2:28. The kingdom can be made manifest in us, but it isn't completely here because I'm not seeing Jesus ruling and reigning in Jerusalem.

Alyssa S
Apr 4th 2008, 07:57 PM
Hey Alyssa :)

Currently not at my apartment right now, so I can't post it. But in my seminary reading, one of the books I went over is eight different models for the kingdom of God. Can't recall them off the top of my head, but when I get the chance I will post them for you with a brief explanation of each. Not that they are necessarily correct, but they do give us something to think about. And then of course, there will be the hopeful discussion here.

Hey Owen!

Oh, that would be awesome!!! Thank you! :)
I look forward to reading it... I am especially interested because of 1 Cor 6-9 "Do not be deceived, Neither will the idolaters, adulterers, fornicators etc..etc... inherit the Kingdom of God..."

The bible talks about those that will reign over the Nations with God. Well, if all believers are in heaven (the Kingdom) who the heck will these elect reign over? Again, I am very new to this study, but could these people that reign with God live IN THE Kingdom.... and those others who are the "nations," do they live OUTSIDE of the Kingdom?

Not sure if this post is even going there. But I am curious about the above. I'm sure ruling the nations has to do with the Millenium period. But there will still be a Kingdom. ????

markedward
Apr 4th 2008, 08:06 PM
like the Acts 2 experience was a partial fulfillment of Joel 2:28.Where does Scripture say it was only a "partial" fulfillment?

Scripture shows us two types of things; the types and the archtypes. The "types" are events or things that came about before Jesus, while the "archtypes" are events or things that come about after Jesus.

Examples: The near-sacrifice of Isaac as "the son" was a type, while the actual-sacrifice of Jesus as "the Son" was the archtype. The child genocide because of Moses' death was a type, while the child genocide because of Jesus' death was the archtype. When Jesus came about, everything came to a whole; Scripture only show us the types and archtypes, but it doesn't hint or suggest to mere "partial" archtypes.


The kingdom can be made manifest in us, but it isn't completely here because I'm not seeing Jesus ruling and reigning in Jerusalem.The Revelation calls "Jerusalem" as "the bride." The bride is the church, the fellowship of believers. It's not a city that is being called the bride, but the people who are the bride. If we are the bride Jerusalem, and Christ reigns in us, then Jesus is our King now.

Tanya~
Apr 4th 2008, 08:23 PM
What a person believes about the kingdom will be directly related to what they also believe about the resurrection, because they are connected. The spiritual aspects of the kingdom are in existence now, just as we are saved now and live in newness of life. But we are also in expectation of the return of Christ, the resurrection of the body and the regeneration of the earth itself.

Rom 8:21-25
21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
NKJV


1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
NKJV

The resurrection takes place when the Lord returns, and this is also when He judges the nations and restores the earth, and reigns over all the earth. Those of us who participate in the First Resurrection, will be privileged to reign with Him.

Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
NKJV

Also see Rev 5:9-10.

Teke
Apr 4th 2008, 08:35 PM
The kingdom can be made manifest in us, but it isn't completely here because I'm not seeing Jesus ruling and reigning in Jerusalem.


Hi Timmy :)

In Luke 17:20 Jesus tells the Pharisees who asked when the kingdom would come, that it doesn't come by observation. Meaning one can't see it. Paul confirms this in Romans 14:17 " for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Alyssa S
Apr 4th 2008, 09:00 PM
What a person believes about the kingdom will be directly related to what they also believe about the resurrection, because they are connected. The spiritual aspects of the kingdom are in existence now, just as we are saved now and live in newness of life. But we are also in expectation of the return of Christ, the resurrection of the body and the regeneration of the earth itself.

Rom 8:21-25
21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
NKJV


1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
NKJV

The resurrection takes place when the Lord returns, and this is also when He judges the nations and restores the earth, and reigns over all the earth. Those of us who participate in the First Resurrection, will be privileged to reign with Him.

Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
NKJV

Also see Rev 5:9-10.

Hi Tanya,

I agree with everything mentioned above...

What I don't understand is: WHO will we reign over in the Kingdom? If everyone is "equal" in the Kingdom, why would we have to rule and reign "the nations?"

How does the Millenium tie into the Kingdom? What is the order?

Tanya~
Apr 4th 2008, 09:11 PM
When Jesus comes to judge the nations and resurrect & rapture His church, those who had worshiped the Beast will be killed and a very large proportion of mankind will be killed but not everybody. Jesus 'shortened the days' for the 'sake of the elect' otherwise 'no flesh would be saved.' This indicates that there will be some people other than the elect who will survive. There will be many people who will not have taken the mark of the beast for various reasons, and I believe these will enter the Millennium as mortals and repopulate the earth. In a household for example, the parents of children might take the mark so they can buy and sell, but the children will not have to do that necessarily. There will also likely be survivalists who didn't want to submit to the Antichrist. And while the Antichrist will institute the mark and set out to kill everyone who doesn't, it will take time, money and a lot of manpower to enforce it. So there are very likely going to be pockets of humanity here and there which will manage to escape it.

That's my view on it.

Owen
Apr 4th 2008, 09:17 PM
Hey Owen!

Oh, that would be awesome!!! Thank you! :)
I look forward to reading it... I am especially interested because of 1 Cor 6-9 "Do not be deceived, Neither will the idolaters, adulterers, fornicators etc..etc... inherit the Kingdom of God..."

The bible talks about those that will reign over the Nations with God. Well, if all believers are in heaven (the Kingdom) who the heck will these elect reign over? Again, I am very new to this study, but could these people that reign with God live IN THE Kingdom.... and those others who are the "nations," do they live OUTSIDE of the Kingdom?

Not sure if this post is even going there. But I am curious about the above. I'm sure ruling the nations has to do with the Millenium period. But there will still be a Kingdom. ????

As promised, here are the eight models given by Howard Snyder in Models of the Kingdom. He and I are not necessarily say they are biblical or not.

The Kingdom as Future Hope
The Kingdom as Inner Spiritual Experience
The Kingdom as Mystical Communion
The Kingdom as Institutional Church
The Kingdom as Countersystem
The Kingdom as Political State
The Kingdom as Christianized Culture
The Kingdom as Earthly Eutopia

If any of those titles don't make sense, I do plan on going into details with each other them as the thread progresses.

One thing to keep in mind is that while there may be not direct Biblical support (in other words the Bible explicitly advocating a certain view), when one puts the themes and the story of the Bible together, one might find support for other models.

Also, it isn't one model at the exclusion of others. They may conceivably be combined to try to give us a better idea of what Jesus and the Apostles envision as God's kingdom.

joztok
Apr 5th 2008, 12:43 PM
The Revelation calls "Jerusalem" as "the bride." The bride is the church, the fellowship of believers. It's not a city that is being called the bride, but the people who are the bride. If we are the bride Jerusalem, and Christ reigns in us, then Jesus is our King now.

Jesus Christ's bride is the church. In Revelations, Jesus receives us.
God the Father's bride is Israel. Later, God the Father takes in union, Israel.
In the Old Testament, God was continually referring to His people as a woman, bride, lover, etc. This is really evident in the book of Hosea.

Now the 'Kingdom question'. I asked about this last year and like what I have discovered.

The Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God are two different things- but the same.

The Kingdom of God is the visible Kingdom hear upon this earth where Christ shall come reign for 1000 years, following the gog/magog war and renovation of the earth by fire, that Kingdom is everlasting visibly.It's the physical, earthly authority we will come to live in that demonstrates the 'Kingdom of Gods' power. This form of the Kingdom is to come.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the invisible Kingdom we live in today- the church. It's the spiritual authority we have come to live in that demonstrates the 'Kingdom of Heavens' power.

Read the parables of Jesus. When he talks of the 'KOG' parables and then of the 'KOH' parables, you will find they do vary just a tad to emphasize the Kingdom but the different time frames when they will be fulfilled.

Same Kingdom, different form.

markedward
Apr 5th 2008, 08:49 PM
Read the parables of Jesus. When he talks of the 'KOG' parables and then of the 'KOH' parables, you will find they do vary just a tad to emphasize the Kingdom but the different time frames when they will be fulfilled.The "kingdom of heaven" phrase is used only by Matthew's gospel while the "kingdom of God" phrase is used in the others. "Kingdom of heaven" is used in the exact same manner that the "kingdom of God" is used. The best example that the two terms refer to the same thing is in Matthew's gospel.

"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Here, Jesus says "I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven," then says "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." The use of "again" shows us that Jesus was referring to the exact same "kingdom" the second time around as the first time. The kingdom of God is the kingdom of heaven. Interpreting the two as being different kingdoms or different parts of a kingdom is just nitpicking the slight differences in verbage between the three synoptics.

Clifton
Apr 6th 2008, 12:06 AM
Jesus Christ's bride is the church. In Revelations, Jesus receives us.
God the Father's bride is Israel. Later, God the Father takes in union, Israel.
In the Old Testament, God was continually referring to His people as a woman, bride, lover, etc. This is really evident in the book of Hosea.

Now the 'Kingdom question'. I asked about this last year and like what I have discovered.

The Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God are two different things- but the same.

The Kingdom of God is the visible Kingdom hear upon this earth where Christ shall come reign for 1000 years, following the gog/magog war and renovation of the earth by fire, that Kingdom is everlasting visibly.It's the physical, earthly authority we will come to live in that demonstrates the 'Kingdom of Gods' power. This form of the Kingdom is to come.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the invisible Kingdom we live in today- the church. It's the spiritual authority we have come to live in that demonstrates the 'Kingdom of Heavens' power.

Read the parables of Jesus. When he talks of the 'KOG' parables and then of the 'KOH' parables, you will find they do vary just a tad to emphasize the Kingdom but the different time frames when they will be fulfilled.

Same Kingdom, different form.

In regards to KOG and KOH:
“Kingdom of Heaven” in Matthew (http://www.tnnonline.net/faq/m.html#Matthew%20composition): Matthew makes references to God as “Heaven” or “the Kingdom of Heaven” consistent with First Century Jewish practice that avoided usage of the Divine Name YHWH; and the author emphasizes Yeshua as the “Son of Man” or the “Son of David.”

Yes, the KOG/KOH is here among and within us - here it is the imperfect state, and the perfect state will be after the end.

Blessings.

Servant89
Apr 16th 2008, 10:06 PM
1 Cor 4:20 says the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.

Jesus said if there is ademonstration of the raw power of the Holy Ghost, that is the kingdom.

Mt 12:28 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=12&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=28) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

In Acts 1:6-8 the disciples asked Jesus to tell them when will the kingdom arrive (they were asking about the 2nd coming), Jesus told them it is not for them to know the time of the second coming but since they were asking about the kingdom, he gave them the answer for today which is:

Acts 1:8 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=44&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:

The kingdom is the most important things we need to be looking for.

Seek ye first ... what?

What is the first thing on the list of petition in the our Father prayer? Thy kingdom come....

What is the difference between the foolish virgins and wise ones in Mat 25:1-12? The attitude towards the oil (the anointing, the kingdom).

GO GET SOME !!!!

ARCHER42
Apr 17th 2008, 03:26 AM
The Kingdom of Heaven in His 1st advent to earth came as the Scriptures described Him.. Sent by the Father, He was the suffering servant, Man of Sorrows, despised and rejected of Men , the perfect Lamb which was slain before the foundations of the world. He was purely God in the flesh, full of the Holy Ghost and filled with power. He came demonstrating the Kingdom of God not only by casting out devils but by healing the sick and raising the dead. He Truly was a King... When before Pontious Pilate He said that His Kingdom was not of this world, or else His servants would fight for Him and He wouldnt be turned over to the Jews. He was speaking of a spiritual Kingdom.. not of this world.

He made it possible to have the 'kingdom of Heaven within you' by His death and resurrection and His ascension back into Heaven... thats what He was talking about to Nicodemus when He said.... 'ye must be born again'..... a spiritual rebirth. It's a Personal Relationship with the 2nd Person of the Godhead.. Jesus the Christ. It's a work that God does in your heart, opening your heart, ears, and eyes... and opening your understanding to who He really is... Truely God in the flesh and opening your understanding to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now the Kingdom of Heaven will RETURN a 2nd time only this time He's not coming as the suffering servant, or the man of sorrows etc... but He comes with His armies as the CONQUERING King of kings and Lord of Lords. He brings His actual physical Kingdom from heaven to the earth and will rule and reign from Jerusalem for a 1000 years.... Thus .. 'thy Kingdom come, they will be done.. on EARTH as it is in HEAVEN.

As an individual you've either got the Kingdom of Heaven inside you, spiritually....... 'ye must be born again' or you don't have it at all.

Jeusus answered him and said unto him, Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.

Wishing you all a great, safe week and weekend!

My heart's Desire
Apr 17th 2008, 03:44 AM
Simple question to bring up for discussion. What do you think is the kingdom of God? Is it now or later? What is the purpose of the coming of God's kingdom (whether it has already come or is coming in the future)? How does it come about? Are the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God same thing? Of course be sure to include your Biblical rationale for it.I thought you said "simple"? ;) I know what I kind of think but whew, I had to read scholar's view and I'm not so sure I understood them.

RogerW
Apr 17th 2008, 03:33 PM
Hey Owen, good to see you.:hug:

The kingdom of God is a spiritual reality present within the Christian believer and within the community of the church.

Purpose is found in relevance. The kingdom of God is brought near and immediate to us in the Person of Jesus Christ, a radiant spiritual glory throughout creation.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

Hi Teke,

I'll take it one step further, and boldly state the 'church' IS the kingdom of God. In her physical manifestation, she has both spot and wrinkle, nonetheless, the 'church', made up of both wheat and tares in this world, including every wart, false teacher, false doctrine, antichrist is the kingdom of God/heaven. She is not now what she will be; glorious in eternity, but she truly is the kingdom of God on this sin cursed earth.

Many Blessings,
RW

shushawnna
Apr 22nd 2008, 01:01 AM
The kingdom is a government -Daniel 2:44

It is now.

It is going to bring an end to earthly goverments-Daniel 2:44

It is the only hope for mankind. We pray for it to make the earth peaceful, as the heavens are now(since Jesus kicked Satan to the earth, the heavens are peaceful and the earth is not) when we pray the prayer at Matthew 6:9,10(thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.....)

This peace will be soon and it will be because the wicked will be removed-Psalms 37:9,10

I am sorry, I dont know how to post scriptures.

Matt 13:44
Apr 22nd 2008, 01:51 AM
Jesus gave many parables to answer the question what is the kingdom of heaven one of which is Matt 13:44. Here is my interpretation of that verse. Hope this helps

Matt 13:44
"Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field, which, when a man hath found, he hideth; and for the joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field."


Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 15:50) and it does not come under our observation (Luke 17:20). For the kingdom of heaven is within us (Luke 17:21). The Kingdom of Heaven is a state of mind; It is a way of thinking; A way of looking at things; It is a mind that can decipher truth, righteousness and justice. It is the mind of Christ!

But this treasure of spiritual truth is buried or hidden in the field of God's Word. It is veiled from us. It is a secret. In order to find this treasure you must follow the clues with pure intent and motives (Heb 4:12). The clues are here a little and there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept (Isaiah 28:9-11). The Word of God gets strung together in a new and living way (Hebrews 10:20) by rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) until the powerful delusion The Word sent us (2 Thessalonians 2:11) is finally broken.

When we finally find this hidden treasure or spiritual truth we find it difficult to explain and yet impossible to disprove. When we finally see it, hear it and understand the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven we convert to a new way of thinking. It is the renewing of the mind; A turning point in our spiritual journey. This is why Christ says earlier in Matt 13, "Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, turn, and I would heal them."

When we find this treasure we hide or are quiet about it because it is difficult to explain especially because we are just getting familiar with it. We have eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart that understands but no tongue to speak it. And when others who don't understand what we found immediately challenge it we are not ready to defend it or show them the truth. But knowing the value of what we have found we hide this treasure within us until such a time that we are ready to speak it.

Meanwhile in all our joy we are busy selling all we have of our old spiritual possessions to take hold of the truth we have found. We seek to buy the field where the truth is located that we may find more of it.

So thats my take on the kingdom of heaven...

Teke
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:36 PM
Hi Teke,

I'll take it one step further, and boldly state the 'church' IS the kingdom of God. In her physical manifestation, she has both spot and wrinkle, nonetheless, the 'church', made up of both wheat and tares in this world, including every wart, false teacher, false doctrine, antichrist is the kingdom of God/heaven. She is not now what she will be; glorious in eternity, but she truly is the kingdom of God on this sin cursed earth.

Many Blessings,
RW

She likely appears more glorious in heaven than she does here on earth (because she is on earth doing and seeing God's "will be done on earth as it is in heaven"), such was Jesus fate as well. ;)

timmyb
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:59 PM
Where does Scripture say it was only a "partial" fulfillment?

Scripture shows us two types of things; the types and the archtypes. The "types" are events or things that came about before Jesus, while the "archtypes" are events or things that come about after Jesus.

Examples: The near-sacrifice of Isaac as "the son" was a type, while the actual-sacrifice of Jesus as "the Son" was the archtype. The child genocide because of Moses' death was a type, while the child genocide because of Jesus' death was the archtype. When Jesus came about, everything came to a whole; Scripture only show us the types and archtypes, but it doesn't hint or suggest to mere "partial" archtypes.

The Revelation calls "Jerusalem" as "the bride." The bride is the church, the fellowship of believers. It's not a city that is being called the bride, but the people who are the bride. If we are the bride Jerusalem, and Christ reigns in us, then Jesus is our King now.

the skies haven't darkened and the moon hasn't turned to blood... that's the whole of the prophecy... Joel 2:28

a kingdom is defined as a people in obedience to a king...