PDA

View Full Version : Food Riots Are Breaking Out Across The Planet



menJesus
Apr 11th 2008, 08:29 AM
From: the daily kos:

Food Riots Breaking Out Across the Planet

by ApacheTrout

Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 06:35:40 AM PDT

A significant spike in grain and commodities prices is driving up the cost of food worldwide and marking the beginning of the collapse of the world economy. As a result, violent riots have broken out, as described by Vivian Walt (Time, February 27, 2008)

Rocketing food prices — some of which have more than doubled in two years — have sparked riots in numerous countries recently. Millions are reeling from sticker shock and governments are scrambling to staunch a fast-moving crisis before it spins out of control. From Mexico to Pakistan, protests have turned violent. Rioters tore through three cities in the West African nation of Burkina Faso last month, burning government buildings and looting stores. Days later in Cameroon, a taxi drivers' strike over fuel prices mutated into a massive protest about food prices, leaving around 20 people dead.
Here in the U.S., the economic collapse has been "contained" to the housing market and a "few bad apples" (Bear Stearns) in the financial markets, but for how much longer? Will we see food riots at home?

ApacheTrout's diary :: ::
So far, the riots have been largely in developing countries around the world. The Wall Street Journal reports today (hat tip to Bonddad) that the World Bank estimates that the cost of food has risen 83% over the last 3 years.

Here's a timeline of food riots since 2007:

January 2007 - Mexico riot over the increasing price of tortillas.
September 2007 - Indians in West Bengal riot over food shortages and public corruption.
February 2008 - Cameroons angry over high fuel and food prices.
February 2008 - Protesters in Burkina Fasso attacked government offices and burned, shops, cars and petrol stations.
Marchh 2008 - Senegalese citizens are beaten following protests against the high cost of living.
April 2008 - Haitians riot over rising food prices.
April 2008 - Yemenis riot as the price of wheat has doubled since February, while rice and vegetable oil have gone up 20%.
April 2008 - Egyptians riot over the price of bread.

Is the U.S.immune to the conditions that cause food riots? In March, Kossak bink documented soaring wheat prices, which are now showing up in price hikes at bakeries in Michigan, pizzerias in New York, and beer just about everywhere. Milk prices are up 26 percent and egg prices are up 40 percent.

But Americans are a tough lot. We swallowed $2 and $3 per gallon gas prices with nary a blink or change in our driving habitat (until very recently). But is something about to change? Nearly one in 10 Ohioans now receive food stamps. Middle class Long Islanders are turning to food pantries. In Windsor, CT, 350 households now visit the food bank, compared to 120 in 2006. While I don't believe food riots are in our immediate future, it appears our ability to feed ourselves is becoming increasing difficult, and a day of reckoning may now be on the horizon.

daughter
Apr 11th 2008, 09:18 AM
Oh my... What does this remind you of???

"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

So far our luxuries (the oil and the wine) have not been effected, but world wide the essentials of life have been driven up in price to an awful extent. Does anyone else see this as fulfillment of prophecy?

menJesus
Apr 11th 2008, 09:35 AM
Yes indeed, daughter, I see it as the beginning of famine, prophecy being fulfilled...

I have been watching the situation here in the US, but I had no idea the problem was world-wide, and to this extent.

Here is a link to more very good information, from Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSDEL3176120080409?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

teddyv
Apr 11th 2008, 05:01 PM
Our local paper had an opinion piece on this today wherein the author detailed that these increased prices have various reasons. One of the main ones being the legislation in the US to add ethanol to gasoline. This is diverting a huge amount of corn production away from food production (including animal feed). From what I recall, Brazil apparently can produce ethanol from sugar cane far more efficiently than the US from corn/wheat but trade barriers and the agricultural lobby does not want to allow importation.

Further, globalization has resulted in the development of middle classes in developing countries which are now vying and able to pay for the same resources that was normally granted to the western developed world.

Finally, investors discovered the value of the agriculture commodities and are driving the price up based on speculation, similar to the way oil and other natural resources have been driven up.

Essentially we are having a global inflation in all commodities, because we now have to share with a much larger segment of the world's population.

Sorry I can't link to the article as its a paid/member access.

MikeAD
Apr 11th 2008, 07:15 PM
Our local paper had an opinion piece on this today wherein the author detailed that these increased prices have various reasons. One of the main ones being the legislation in the US to add ethanol to gasoline. This is diverting a huge amount of corn production away from food production (including animal feed). From what I recall, Brazil apparently can produce ethanol from sugar cane far more efficiently than the US from corn/wheat but trade barriers and the agricultural lobby does not want to allow importation.

Further, globalization has resulted in the development of middle classes in developing countries which are now vying and able to pay for the same resources that was normally granted to the western developed world.

Finally, investors discovered the value of the agriculture commodities and are driving the price up based on speculation, similar to the way oil and other natural resources have been driven up.

Essentially we are having a global inflation in all commodities, because we now have to share with a much larger segment of the world's population.

Sorry I can't link to the article as its a paid/member access.

To further this, in the last few years more farmers have been growing Corn and less farmers have been growin wheat. Many states offer subsadies and incentives for farmers who grow corn to be made into ethanol. This lowers the ammount of wheat that is produced. Next we have the price of wheat going up because the supply is so low. Next we have the drop of the dollar and inflation. Markets outside of the US can pay for wheat while companies in the US cannot buy the wheat due to: a.)decreased sales because prices have gone up and b.) the price of wheat.

So we don't have enough wheat to go around and the wheat we do have is bought by markets with wealthier buyers.

The last time I checked that is what happens to third world countries.

menJesus
Apr 11th 2008, 07:26 PM
Sorry about the link...

My question is, why is this happening? Where are the powers-that-be in all this?

Did no one see this crunch coming?

MikeAD
Apr 11th 2008, 07:32 PM
Sorry about the link...

My question is, why is this happening? Where are the powers-that-be in all this?

Did no one see this crunch coming?

People did see it coming, but they were labled conspiracy theorists and nut bags.

daughter
Apr 11th 2008, 10:01 PM
My husband saw it coming three or four years ago. At the time we were involved in animal rights campaigning, so you can imagine most of our friends and colleagues were very much into protecting the environment, etc. They started to use biofuel, etc.

We decided NOT to, when Neil did the maths... if everyone who drives a vehicle starts using biofuel, there will be nothing to go round for folks to eat. Other things that we had been looking into, like soyabean plastics etc, looked dodgy to us, so we ended up very unpopular in AR circles, because we refused to support biofuels and sustainable plastics.

I wouldn't have picked up on this if it hadn't been for Neil. He was very singleminded when he researched any subject, and I remember him saying that if and when this took off, it was going to contribute to world wide hunger on a massive scale... and that smug Westerners might end up feeling very "good and kosher" while less fortunate folks in the developing world would suffer. "We'll only realise when it starts to hit the West," he said, "and that's going to be too late."

He had a long list of reasons why he thought it would hit the US before Europe, but it boiled down to the fact that the US dollar hasn't been tied to "real" currency for decades, and that if the Arabs take over the world oil market then the US could feasably go bankrupt.

I wish I'd paid more attention, I think he knew what he was talking about. One of the things that got him to pay increasing attention to the Bible, before he was Christian, was the prophecies in Revelation, which he believed he could see unfolding all around him.

Yes, I do think we're in prophetic times, and I'm sorry to say that there's nothing we can do to stop it. But also glad that Jesus is coming soon!

RoadWarrior
Apr 11th 2008, 10:15 PM
My hubby mentioned to me a couple days ago, there is a world-wide shortage of rice, with prices sky-rocketing. Millions of people in the world depend on rice as the mainstay of their diet.

Here is one story about it http://www.upiasiaonline.com/Economics/2008/04/02/why_a_rice_shortage_in_the_philippines/6495/ or you can google rice shortage and read lots of articles.

May the Lord grant mercy and provision to His people!

menJesus
Apr 11th 2008, 10:21 PM
Rice has increased 142% ( I think it said) and dairy ( eggs and cheese) has increased 80%, and wheat has increased 40%. ( These figures are not written in stone ;) )

We need to pray really, really hard. It is spring in a lot of places - God can prompt men to plant the FOOD crops... He must, or people worldwide are going to begin starving... more than they already are... this is all so sad... :(

teddyv
Apr 11th 2008, 10:42 PM
In my earlier post, I mentioned an article I thought I couldn't get at, but it was available freely.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=eaa6dc3b-46bc-4e85-a346-54e084ff09bb

menJesus
Apr 11th 2008, 11:06 PM
This makes no sense. The US government will wind up paying out even more in food stamps than they do now. But God alone knows what the rest of the world will do...:(

It seems to me like a few of us have dug a hole that we`re all going to fall into, here in a minute... :(


PS Thanks for the links, they are interesting and informative.

MikeAD
Apr 11th 2008, 11:08 PM
This makes no sense. The US government will wind up paying out even more in food stamps than they do now. But God alone knows what the rest of the world will do...:(


PS Thanks for the link, its interesting.

The United States is not going to start giving food stamps to the middle class, nor will they increase their foodstamps to the poor.

menJesus
Apr 11th 2008, 11:16 PM
The middle class is becoming the poor. Its not the poor running up the foreclosure percentages...

And in Ohio alone, food stamps are given to a full 10% of the population now, one in ten.

And last time I checked, Ohio was still in the US. Now, Kentucky is next door... but thats another matter... ;)

MikeAD
Apr 11th 2008, 11:23 PM
The middle class is becoming the poor. Its not the poor running up the foreclosure percentages...

And in Ohio alone, food stamps are given to a full 10% of the population now, one in ten.

And last time I checked, Ohio was still in the US. Now, Kentucky is next door... but thats another matter... ;)

Yes I agree with you, the Middle Class has been fading away for some time now.

Maybe I should attempt to re-word my post. In New Jersey they give food stamps to a wide variety of people, College Students, the elderly, teen mothers, etc. There are a lot of states that do this.

But I really do not think, as food prices continue to increase and our economy continues to plummit, that the Government is going to increase aid to the poor or to the middle class. And those who are upper middle class will begin to be lower middle class and so on.

And regardless, I don't care if the Government gives foodstams to 10% or 80% of the population, its not going to solve a darned thing.

menJesus
Apr 11th 2008, 11:33 PM
What a paralyzing thought! If they don`t attempt to take up the slack, the US will be LIKE a third-world country.

All we can do is pray. I never thought I`d live to see a time like this time...not here. :(

daughter
Apr 11th 2008, 11:48 PM
When I was a kid, I read a book called Pax Americanus, which was drawing comparisons between the US and the Roman Empire. I can't remember the name of the woman who wrote it... her premise was that the history past and future, of the US could be best understood (and prophesied) by comparison to Rome. Just as Rome started off with the most admirable of motives, so did the US. Just as Rome was a beacon of hope and civilisation, so was the US. Just as Rome always had a core integrity even in her darkest times, so does the US.

But just as power corrupted Rome, so it will the US. Her idea was that Rome, as she became a vast Empire, became morally compromised. She started to express family breakdown, societal violence, increased immorality... she talked about sexual immorality, addiction to the violence of the arena (which she compared with our modern love of violent movies) and luxurious living while the poor clamour at our gates.

Personally, I don't think it's just the US who are guilty of this sin these days... the UK are also guilty.

But I seem to remember she said that Rome thought she'd never collapse... but still, she gradually crumbled, then one day the barbarians are in the gates.

It could still take a few hundred years you know. But all societies fall, and when they do it is always shocking. If Daniel's vision is correct, the last government to fall will be utterly ground to powder.

Whether we're in that time yet or not, I don't know... but I do know that human history seems to pre echo the bad news.

It's not too late to pray though, and I hope our respective nations manage to hold out a little bit longer.

menJesus
Apr 12th 2008, 12:09 AM
Wow. That book does sound like the US. I love my country, but we`re certainly not perfect, here... :(

I`m not worried so much about a gvernmental collapse, although I can see that happening someday.

And I don`t see a shortage in the US - not yet, just higher prices.

What I am thinking of is all the hungry people in the world today over this mess... and if its this bad right now, how will it be in another six months? or a year?

But the questions that are really nagging at me are these: what kind of people do we have over us, that they would allow something as catastrophic as this to happen???

How many high-up government officials, in how many different countries?

They must have knowledge... do they have no conscience at all?

This is so disturbing...

RoadWarrior
Apr 12th 2008, 12:22 AM
...

This is so disturbing...

menJesus, you are seeing evil for what it really is - evil.

Most people who deny God, are also denying evil. They don't understand how horrible evil really is.

In CA, we see people who think that God is the author of evil. Even some who profess to be Christian claim that God is ultimately responsible for evil. I think the Bible tells us something different.

The world has followed after its own lusts, and in the end it will collapse of it's own wickedness.

Pray that God will count us worthy to escape!

Lk 21:35-36
35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
NKJV

menJesus
Apr 12th 2008, 12:34 AM
Oh, RoadWarrior, I am - I don`t even know what I am, right now...

To think that people could cause - WOULD cause - worldwide starvation... for what? For their own ends? For monetary gain?

How could someone turn their back on mankind, that way???

I just can`t even wrap my mind around that right now... that is so heinous!

Evil is the word, for sure. I will pray long and hard over this, tonight.

I can`t do a thing about anything. But I can pray. God can make a way.

RevLogos
Apr 15th 2008, 03:12 AM
Yes folks we're now seeing the damaging effects of "Global Warming".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080414/sc_afp/euunfarmpovertyenergypoliticsbiofuel_080414143918

No, not the ravages of nature, but the ravages of Man's stupidity. The Global Warming Crisis Theology is hard at work. All across the world, leaders who have bought in to the hoax have been converting real food to biofuels. Not just in the USA but many of the developed countries.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything." -- GK Chesterton

Die Filadelfieer
Apr 17th 2008, 11:44 AM
This is a scary thread guys, but I'm so incredibly releved that there is more and more people that is begining to see the truth. For me personaly, the end times prophesy about famine was always important, simply because it is such a decisive indicator.

Also , you can add South Africa to the list, here are two articels for reference :

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2305864,00.html

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2302508,00.html


Mark my words, soon you wil not stand outside in your gardens admiring your flowers, but rather your beautiful veggie gardens. The situation is going to escalate to proportions that we only can imagine, or dream of in our nightmares....and suddenly old time "survivelists" do not seem to be so nutty anymore.

I believe that God has a very specific job in mind for us during the times ahead, and that is to bring His Word to people that is going to need it more than ever. :pray::pray::pray:

NHL Fever
Apr 17th 2008, 01:37 PM
Things do seem to be getting worse in the world. And not in just the 'things aren't like they used to be' laments of every older generation about the next one, but in real measurable terms.


We decided NOT to, when Neil did the maths... if everyone who drives a vehicle starts using biofuel, there will be nothing to go round for folks to eat. Other things that we had been looking into, like soyabean plastics etc, looked dodgy to us, so we ended up very unpopular in AR circles, because we refused to support biofuels and sustainable plastics. Sounds like a smart guy. Despite all the benefits of pursing renewable energy, biofuels just isn't making the grade. And Bush isn't pushing biofuels out of an honest desire to access alternative or renewable energies, he's doing it to subsidize big agri while getting to claim he's pursuing alternative energy. It takes more oil to make biofuel than the energy you get out of it and it uses up agricultural space. Naturally all alternative fuels will start as inneficient just as any new invention does, then hopefully improve, but it seems like biofuels are just a waste.


What a paralyzing thought! If they don`t attempt to take up the slack, the US will be LIKE a third-world country.
The US has been resembling a third-world country more and more in the last few years, the following are characteristics that the US and third-world nations have in common which are also classic for most third-world nations
- Widespread moral decline
- Erosion of middle class
- Extreme wealth disparities between richest and poorest, with protected communities based on fear between classes
- Neglect of public services and education systems
- Preferential funding of the military above all
- Ineffective, politically motivated military campaigns
- Massive national debt beyond concievable repayment
- High crime and murder rates
- Costly or inaccessible health services for significant section of population
- Ethnic divisions parallel economic divisions
- Crumbling infrastructure
- Fear-based leadership style used to encroach on constitution or rights of citizens
- Control of political power in hands of very few parties or individuals

Those markers of third-world nations could be generally applied to describe the US as much as Zimbabwe or Rwanda. Naturally the reality is one of degree, but those same policies and tendencies can lean a modern nation down the road of a third-world nation by the same mechanisms. It would be very difficult to find another western nation that meets those criteria.

diffangle
Apr 17th 2008, 02:10 PM
My husband saw it coming three or four years ago. At the time we were involved in animal rights campaigning, so you can imagine most of our friends and colleagues were very much into protecting the environment, etc. They started to use biofuel, etc.

We decided NOT to, when Neil did the maths... if everyone who drives a vehicle starts using biofuel, there will be nothing to go round for folks to eat. Other things that we had been looking into, like soyabean plastics etc, looked dodgy to us, so we ended up very unpopular in AR circles, because we refused to support biofuels and sustainable plastics.

I wouldn't have picked up on this if it hadn't been for Neil. He was very singleminded when he researched any subject, and I remember him saying that if and when this took off, it was going to contribute to world wide hunger on a massive scale... and that smug Westerners might end up feeling very "good and kosher" while less fortunate folks in the developing world would suffer. "We'll only realise when it starts to hit the West," he said, "and that's going to be too late."

He had a long list of reasons why he thought it would hit the US before Europe, but it boiled down to the fact that the US dollar hasn't been tied to "real" currency for decades, and that if the Arabs take over the world oil market then the US could feasably go bankrupt.

Wow, what an astute husband! That's a really good point daughter. .. it would have been good to publish his findings in order to help others to see what he saw. Did ya'll ever get a chance to convince any of your AR friends with his research?

diffangle
Apr 17th 2008, 02:19 PM
And Bush isn't pushing biofuels out of an honest desire to access alternative or renewable energies, he's doing it to subsidize big agri while getting to claim he's pursuing alternative energy

Yeah it's interesting to see how connected his administration is with chemical/agri giant Monsanto (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Monsanto's_High_Level_Connections_ to_the_Bush_Administration):mad:. Monsanto is another beast to watch out for in this food supply problem. Monsanto is taking over the world food supply with their toxic gmo crops.

grptinHisHand
Apr 17th 2008, 03:09 PM
I just found out about this message and have been reading it.

Here is an excerpt from an e-mail message I received from a fellow Prayer Network member in the Baptist Association here in my county:

"Also, I was at Women of Joy this weekend and Kay Arthur asked that all churches start praying at Noon on Thursdays. She says it is imperative that we start praying for our nation!! I, and I'm sure all of the prayer warriors, will agree with her. So especially try to pray wherever you are on Thursday at noon for our nation to "Focus on God fully". end of quote

I plan to expand this prayer to include our planet! And to pray specifically for the hungry, for the farmers to help meet these needs.

g

IBWatching
Apr 17th 2008, 04:42 PM
Yes I agree with you, the Middle Class has been fading away for some time now. ..

That is the ultimate end of the current course of globalization. The rise of the sovereign individual. There will ultimately be only two classes. The super-rich and the poor.

KATA_LOUKAN
Apr 17th 2008, 07:17 PM
The US has been resembling a third-world country more and more in the last few years, the following are characteristics that the US and third-world nations have in common which are also classic for most third-world nations
- Widespread moral decline


Is this your own evaluation, or did you read this somewhere else?

I was just wondering how moral decline was indicative of a third world nation.



As for the food shortage, I have heard that China is partly to blame, because much of their agriculture land has been converted to land for factories. As a result, China is importing much more food than they traditionally have (rice). Has anyone else heard this?

RoadWarrior
Apr 17th 2008, 07:29 PM
...

As for the food shortage, I have heard that China is partly to blame, because much of their agriculture land has been converted to land for factories. As a result, China is importing much more food than they traditionally have (rice). Has anyone else heard this?

This a an interesting link that talks about the rice shortage. http://climatepatrol.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/worldwide-shortage-of-rice-prices-soaring/
Here is what it says about China: China has banned rice exports to ensure enough is available for domestic demand.

The author also says this:
Another driving factor for rising rice and mase prices is the competition of land and water resources used up for the production of the more lucrative crops, like soy beans, palm oil and mas for fuel production, which can also be attributed to the AGW propaganda.

Notice the word "another" - the reason for rising prices is complex, and the biofuel drive is only one factor.

HisLeast
Apr 17th 2008, 08:26 PM
Yes folks we're now seeing the damaging effects of "Global Warming".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080414/sc_afp/euunfarmpovertyenergypoliticsbiofuel_080414143918

No, not the ravages of nature, but the ravages of Man's stupidity. The Global Warming Crisis Theology is hard at work. All across the world, leaders who have bought in to the hoax have been converting real food to biofuels. Not just in the USA but many of the developed countries.


Global warming is only a small reason for the push for biofuels. The main reason is $115 / barrel oil. That price isn't going to come down either, unless there's another anwar out there that a generation and a half of the world's smartest geologists haven't located. Biofuels are an attractive alternative because it doesn't require as comprehensive a retooling of infrastructure as other options (such as electric and fuel cell).

Jesusinmyheart
Apr 18th 2008, 08:20 PM
One has to wonder if companies like Monsanto have been fueling this diatribe about global warming, in order to become rich in the end.

I don't believe for one moment that there's not enough oil anymore. If anything the shortage only exists because here in the US we have only two refineries, and one of them isn't even fully operational. This in turn leaves one refinery to supply the nation with the fuel needed to function. Which is rediculous.

I say the US needs to build several refineries and quit being so dependent on other countries.

I can't stand Monsanto either...i believe they are messing with things not intended to be messed with. God will have His final say.

Shalom,
Tanja

MikeAD
Apr 18th 2008, 09:26 PM
You mentioned Monsanto, which reminds me, have any of you ever read Seeds of Deception? It is an excellent book and it really clears up alot of scientific questions I had had and explains a lot of just why genetically modified organisms and foods are.

diffangle
Apr 19th 2008, 01:16 AM
You mentioned Monsanto, which reminds me, have any of you ever read Seeds of Deception? It is an excellent book and it really clears up alot of scientific questions I had had and explains a lot of just why genetically modified organisms and foods are.
I've heard of it but haven't read it. There's also a documentary Jerry Garcia's widow did called The Future of Food(available for free on Google video) that gets into the evils of Monsanto and their gmo/terminator seed crops that's worth watching.

diffangle
Apr 19th 2008, 01:50 AM
One has to wonder if companies like Monsanto have been fueling this diatribe about global warming, in order to become rich in the end.


They're definately trying to monopolize the food supply. :mad:

NHL Fever
Apr 19th 2008, 03:09 PM
The bottom line is that if the entire earth lived at western standards, we would need about 3-4 earths worth of agricultural land and resources to feed and provide for everyone. As India and China increase their industrialization and the size of their middle class, they will be competing economically with us more and more. The playing field will start to become more even, and can you really argue with that? Essentially we'll need to either consume and eat less, or start making a lot more money.

MikeAD
Apr 19th 2008, 08:09 PM
The bottom line is that if the entire earth lived at western standards, we would need about 3-4 earths worth of agricultural land and resources to feed and provide for everyone. As India and China increase their industrialization and the size of their middle class, they will be competing economically with us more and more. The playing field will start to become more even, and can you really argue with that? Essentially we'll need to either consume and eat less, or start making a lot more money.

We would actually need about "6-7 Earths" if the entire world lived like an American, according to sustainability.org.
I think the problem doesn't just stem from this, though.

We have an agriculture system where crops are now patented. Organic farmers are sued for stealing crops when a nearby field of genetically modified crops mingle with the organic crops. Organic farms are hard to start because you need legal recourses as well as barriers against the pollen that goes from one farm to another. Subsidies are given to grow corn for high fructose corn syrup and alternative fuels. When a farmer has a hard enough time being able to sustain his farm (against legal battles, developers, etc.) he also sees the government giving out money to grow corn. Seems like the "right" choice to make.
I know, we have been trying to save our 250 acre family farm my entire life.

Jesusinmyheart
Apr 21st 2008, 01:06 PM
Sounds like in order to prevent lawsuits etc one would eventually have to build green houses or something to prevent such scenario of pollination from nearby fields.

I think this is totally ridiculous, when God is the one who gives rain and wind etc, and therefore no one really has control over these types of things.

I wish i could just buy a bunch of solar panels and stuff to make my own place totally independent from everything. But i'm sure someday even those that manage to do this will be "out-lawed" somehow.

They'll find something to ruin them with so they have to feed into the mainstream.

Sad times we live in.

Shalom,
Tanja

Brother Mark
Apr 21st 2008, 01:13 PM
One has to wonder if companies like Monsanto have been fueling this diatribe about global warming, in order to become rich in the end.

I don't believe for one moment that there's not enough oil anymore. If anything the shortage only exists because here in the US we have only two refineries, and one of them isn't even fully operational. This in turn leaves one refinery to supply the nation with the fuel needed to function. Which is rediculous.

I say the US needs to build several refineries and quit being so dependent on other countries.

I can't stand Monsanto either...i believe they are messing with things not intended to be messed with. God will have His final say.

Shalom,
Tanja

Refineries don't make oil. They make gasoline from oil. The reason oil prices are so high these days has more to do with China and India than anyone else. New demand has entered the scene but not new supply. Supply may catch up one day as new wells are found. Brazil may have just found a HUGE reserve off their coast.

I don't know much about the food shortages. I know folks are rioting like crazy. I did read where China and India are eating more meat which is driving up the cost of grain world wide. I also believe that many of the famines to come will be the rich taking advantage of the poor kind of thing. Perhaps we are beginning to see that happen now.

menJesus
Apr 21st 2008, 08:33 PM
Brother Mark, I saw a snippet on CNN today, about some of the traders holding back the food supplies in order to drive the prices up. :(

teddyv
Apr 21st 2008, 09:06 PM
Brother Mark, I saw a snippet on CNN today, about some of the traders holding back the food supplies in order to drive the prices up. :(
Sounds like what the Enron traders were doing, except with electricity.

quiet dove
Apr 22nd 2008, 02:26 AM
I heard something tonight about some shortages along the west coast? Sorry, just caught the tail end of something. Maybe rice and oil (cooking). Anyone heard about that, or has everyone heard about it and I am just now catching up?

menJesus
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:58 AM
There is an article posted here, on another thread, about food rationing on the west coast, and NYC ( I think). Some grocery stores are limiting the amount of rice ( and maybe other foods, I can`t remember for sure) an individual can buy... :(

Brother Mark
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:06 PM
Brother Mark, I saw a snippet on CNN today, about some of the traders holding back the food supplies in order to drive the prices up. :(

I don't doubt that. Supply and demand coming together at once. Unless the rains come back in Australia, things will just get worse.