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Clavicula_Nox
Apr 16th 2008, 07:45 PM
McCain seems to take the veteran vote for granted, this may be because he is in favour of keeping us stupid and uneducated.

In the Senate is a bill that will upgrade the benefits of the Montgomery GI Bill to correspond with current college costs. As it is now, the bill could potentially only cover a year or 2 of high cost tuition, certainly not what the govt implies with it's recruitment drives.

McCain is a veteran, as he is so fond of pointing out. Why is he now one of the few Senate veterans that has not signed this bill? Opponents of the bill state that it would rise the cost of the GI Bill by $2 Billion annually, this is the average cost of a single week of operations in Iraq, and that it would provide sufficient incentives for soldiers to no longer re-enlist and hurt retention numbers.

McCain attended the Naval Academy, and because of his father and grandfather, there is no way he would have been denied. Thus, Sen McCain would have had no use for his GI Bill, which makes it easy to see how he wold brush it off for the several thousand veterans who depend on it once they leave service.

One more thing, Sen McCain once wrote this when speaking of his Vietnam experience:


"In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didnít have the least notion of what it took to win the war."

Irony, John..pure irony...

RoadWarrior
Apr 16th 2008, 08:48 PM
Sounds like you have a good reason to not vote for McCain.

Who will get your vote?

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 16th 2008, 09:34 PM
I couldn't say at this point.

BlessedMan
Apr 16th 2008, 11:42 PM
When yu ar dealing with politics Truth is Strange Stuff. For example saying that John McCain has nixed the Jim Webb GI Bill reform bill. I just finished researching it and it seems that he thinks we need to do something along the line of what is proposed but thinks alternative to the bill need to be explored and modifications made to it.

Now if I was Dragon Rouge member I think i wouldn't know that either.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 17th 2008, 12:03 AM
I'm not a member anymore and haven't been for a few years, relevancy?


I just finished researching it and it seems that he thinks we need to do something along the line of what is proposed but thinks alternative to the bill need to be explored and modifications made to it.

What alternatives? The article I read and based this post on was dated today and quoted Mccain as stating neither he nor anyone on his staff had read it.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 21st 2008, 12:05 AM
As I figured, the only thing in BlessedMan's arsenal are lame personal attacks.

theabaud
Apr 21st 2008, 11:42 AM
Now if I was Dragon Rouge member I think i wouldn't know that either.That was a very insightful post, until the last line where you lay out a personal attack on a man based on a life he lived before Christ. That is low.

BlessedMan
Apr 21st 2008, 02:38 PM
Well maybe he ought to change his online name if he doesn't want to be identified with devil worshipers anymore.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 21st 2008, 03:47 PM
I shouldn't have to change my name so that discussion can be done. Not that it's any of your business, but I came on this forum as a practicing pagan and through fellowship with another member while we were both deployed together in Iraq, I came to see the error of my ways and accepted Jesus into my life. I'm sorry that not all of us were perfect people before humbling ourselves to our saviour, but really, that shouldn't be any of your concern.

Now, if you have anything of substance to say, then please say it or kindly get out of the thread.

theabaud
Apr 21st 2008, 04:10 PM
Well maybe he ought to change his online name if he doesn't want to be identified with devil worshipers anymore.maybe... but it is none of your business and certainly should not be a matter of public ridicule.

MrAnteater
Apr 21st 2008, 09:45 PM
Clinton and Obama are such horrible choices McCain is almost attractive.

What a terrible election year.

StarscreamX-2
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:25 PM
I don't think I can throw my vote in for McCain either....


I really leaning to some extreme political views of late.......

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 22nd 2008, 06:15 PM
I honestly have no idea who is going to get it. None of the candidates have interested me in the slightest, and they all seem like crooks.

Grace40
Apr 24th 2008, 03:04 PM
I honestly have no idea who is going to get it. None of the candidates have interested me in the slightest, and they all seem like crooks.


I agree. I don't care much for any of the candidates. At this point I'm thinking about Clinton. We had some really good years with the economy when Bill was in office and I think Hillary will want to look better than Bill so I really think she will do her best to try and fix the economy and that for me is the main issue to fixing the economy.

RoadWarrior
Apr 24th 2008, 03:24 PM
I agree. I don't care much for any of the candidates. At this point I'm thinking about Clinton. We had some really good years with the economy when Bill was in office and I think Hillary will want to look better than Bill so I really think she will do her best to try and fix the economy and that for me is the main issue to fixing the economy.

You might get disappointed ... the good years were not any of Bill's doings, IMO. It completely had to do with the technology surge, which later collapsed ... Bill just got lucky to be in office at that time.

Grace40
Apr 24th 2008, 03:35 PM
You might get disappointed ... the good years were not any of Bill's doings, IMO. It completely had to do with the technology surge, which later collapsed ... Bill just got lucky to be in office at that time.


I agree, alot was luck with the computer rise and all. I think if we elect McCain it will be another four years of Bush and I personally don't think America and stand another four years. Things are getting really scarey.:(

th1bill
Apr 24th 2008, 04:30 PM
Well maybe he ought to change his online name if he doesn't want to be identified with devil worshipers anymore.
.. WOW! You might want to get a grip, my man. Him chancing that screen name might, very well, be akin to my changing my signature on my email and snail mail.
.. i.e. My signature reads;
Willis D. Taylor, Sr.
Killer Spade 806 CE
1969-'68
.. Does it offend some, yes, it does but once they learn the history from the formation of the 11th Air Assault, of which I took part, through my rejoining the company the helped organize, they begin to understand that I will die being Killer Spade 806 because it is the mark of the "only" good thing I ever did before knowing Christ.
.. His screen name will not get him into Heaven any more than my being a Killer Spade from the Vietnam era will but it might just be an important ear mark and with him making a public profession of his faith, in every post he declares hid faith in Christ with the statement, "yes, I am a Christian. For that reason it is perfectly logical to believe, as I do, that the screen name might be a point of memory.
.. Now, as he crawls off his soap box and is seated in his wheel chair;
CN, I will not get up in your face because although McCain is a Vietnam Vet/POW, I also wish for a more Godly candidate. The election is coming down to either him or one of the other two and when I look at the evidence they have to display, I can only shudder and pray that Sen. McCain picks a good and Godly VP.
.. Obama's voting record is as far to the left as my Christian stance is to the right. I got out my field glasses at 500 feet above the terrain and I caan't even pick up the dust trail from his activity, so he's out. And with Hillary, well she is married to and has stood beside the reason we need to cannibalize defense equipment, here in the states, to keep the equipment on the front operating. And then there are his, now public, ties to the KGB in the sixties in London.
.. I will not cease wishing for the return of my LORD and I will not ever believe that McCain is the perfect man for the time but as an American, I have the duty to vote and I did not vote for the other Clinton so I will not vote for his "better half." Having said that, neither can I vote for a man that, though, charismatic, stands for nothing and votes in the Senate, on the wrong side of every issue. However, on election day I will be found at 0700 hours, seated in my chair, just outside the Election poll door. The man I desire will not be on the ticket but I will vote and not for those that have every intention, as far as this observer can see, of the further destruction of this nation.
.. I have no idea of the way you will cast your ballot but please, vote. If you do not you will have no right to complain. And brave men should never be found in the sissy group.

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 24th 2008, 05:15 PM
CN, I will not get up in your face because although McCain is a Vietnam Vet/POW, I also wish for a more Godly candidate. The election is coming down to either him or one of the other two and when I look at the evidence they have to display, I can only shudder and pray that Sen. McCain picks a good and Godly VP.

I know, I think that I will most likely vote for McCain over the other 2, barring anything dramatic. There is also no chance of me not voting, I voted last time, I'll do it this time.

StarscreamX-2
Apr 24th 2008, 07:40 PM
I'm gonna say something that might get me in trouble with a few folks....but...

Do I really want to vote for a guy that got Captured?

Maybe I need to research it a little more.

diffangle
Apr 24th 2008, 07:46 PM
[/color]I know, I think that I will most likely vote for McCain over the other 2, barring anything dramatic. There is also no chance of me not voting, I voted last time, I'll do it this time.
You could always write in Ron Paul. :D

theabaud
Apr 24th 2008, 07:47 PM
I'm gonna say something that might get me in trouble with a few folks....but...

Do I really want to vote for a guy that got Captured?

Maybe I need to research it a little more.
I would research it alot more. Vietnam fighter pilots and pilots in general were fodder during that war. The tactics and tech advances in air combat were pushed along following our pitiful showing in vietnam. The fact he survived the conflict at all shows real strengthunder pressure. A downed pilot is not a fight to the last man kinda guy.

RevLogos
Apr 27th 2008, 05:29 PM
[/color]I know, I think that I will most likely vote for McCain over the other 2, barring anything dramatic. There is also no chance of me not voting, I voted last time, I'll do it this time.

I have some issues with McCain's policies such as immigration, and his attitude, that there isn't much he could say or do to make me excited to vote for him.

However there's plenty Clinton and Obama say and do that would make me want to vote for McCain.

RevLogos
Apr 27th 2008, 05:34 PM
I agree. I don't care much for any of the candidates. At this point I'm thinking about Clinton. We had some really good years with the economy when Bill was in office and I think Hillary will want to look better than Bill so I really think she will do her best to try and fix the economy and that for me is the main issue to fixing the economy.

Presidents don't control the economy. They have little influence. Lowering taxes does improve the economy as does reducing over-regulation. Bush was right to lower taxes; his problem was he did nothing to control congressional spending.

Both of the Democrats will raise taxes and increase regulation. This will not be good for the economy.

th1bill
Apr 28th 2008, 02:10 AM
I'm gonna say something that might get me in trouble with a few folks....but...

Do I really want to vote for a guy that got Captured?

Maybe I need to research it a little more.
.. WOW! Are you serious! I have my reservations, based on his voting record in the Senate but I never thought to hold it against him because he got his aircraft shot out from under him while flying over enemy territory on a mission assigned to him by his superior officers.
.. In your case I believe a lot of research is in order. Now, had he co-operated, I would not vote for him either but to have served those years in the midst of all that torture and to remain a loyal combatant, I find no fault there at all and I can't imagine that anyone should.

th1bill
Apr 28th 2008, 02:14 AM
You could always write in Ron Paul. :D
I believe we have had this discussion and that you know that it will be a cold, cold day before I will vote for a man that would tie himself that closely with the Drug Culture and Ralph Nader. Jumping parties will never erase his ties.

Teke
Apr 28th 2008, 03:37 PM
McCain seems to take the veteran vote for granted, this may be because he is in favour of keeping us stupid and uneducated.

In the Senate is a bill that will upgrade the benefits of the Montgomery GI Bill to correspond with current college costs. As it is now, the bill could potentially only cover a year or 2 of high cost tuition, certainly not what the govt implies with it's recruitment drives.

McCain is a veteran, as he is so fond of pointing out. Why is he now one of the few Senate veterans that has not signed this bill? Opponents of the bill state that it would rise the cost of the GI Bill by $2 Billion annually, this is the average cost of a single week of operations in Iraq, and that it would provide sufficient incentives for soldiers to no longer re-enlist and hurt retention numbers.

McCain attended the Naval Academy, and because of his father and grandfather, there is no way he would have been denied. Thus, Sen McCain would have had no use for his GI Bill, which makes it easy to see how he wold brush it off for the several thousand veterans who depend on it once they leave service.

One more thing, Sen McCain once wrote this when speaking of his Vietnam experience:



Irony, John..pure irony...


There is surely more to this than meets the eye. Republicans have been known for not voting for things that have already been addressed or will add undue expenses. It's not like Americans have an endless supply of money. They have to stay within a budget irregardless of what everyone wants.

The GI Bill looks fine to me, and from what others with young adults serving have told me, there are well taken care of.

Since your question is in reference to education and cost, I understand there is the Top Up program to help offset costs.

How much more is really necessary.

DrRoi
Apr 29th 2008, 06:52 AM
You might get disappointed ... the good years were not any of Bill's doings, IMO. It completely had to do with the technology surge, which later collapsed ... Bill just got lucky to be in office at that time.

I think those good years had to do with a Republican congress more than Clinton who was obviously busy with less important matters.:o

DrRoi
Apr 29th 2008, 07:08 AM
Better McCain than almost any Democrat. Unfortunately the Demoncratic (intentional spelling) Party has gone far to the left over the years. I for one can not vote for them under any circumstance in spite of McCain's shortcomings.

But he no doubt the most honest, and honorable guy/gal in the race. I didn't see either of the Clinton's serve in the military which I think should be a requirement for the office of commander in chief.

Even Bush did, or has done little about the illegal alien problem, nor did any of his predecessors. He has only done something lately under pressure from the public.

To not vote at all or a no vote for McCain is the same as a vote for an abortion loving, blame America for every problem on the planet first Godless Demoncrate.

He is not my choice either but he is better than the alternative without doubt IMHO.

diffangle
Apr 29th 2008, 12:45 PM
.. WOW! Are you serious! I have my reservations, based on his voting record in the Senate but I never thought to hold it against him because he got his aircraft shot out from under him while flying over enemy territory on a mission assigned to him by his superior officers.
.. In your case I believe a lot of research is in order. Now, had he co-operated, I would not vote for him either but to have served those years in the midst of all that torture and to remain a loyal combatant, I find no fault there at all and I can't imagine that anyone should.
Supposedly he did co-operate. His fellow veterans said he did something like 40 Public Announcents for the enemy saying that the Americans were targeting schools, hospitals, and temples and that he was given softer treatment not only for co-operating but also b/c his daddy was an Admiral. Have you seen the Veterans Against McCain site yet? Here it is in case you're interested in the research...

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/


I believe we have had this discussion and that you know that it will be a cold, cold day before I will vote for a man that would tie himself that closely with the Drug Culture and Ralph Nader. Jumping parties will never erase his ties.
I was responding to CN b/c I know in the past that he said he liked Ron Paul. ;) What does he have in common with Nader? Also, speaking of drugs... do you take any drugs for pain or anything? Here's article by Dr. Paul on why he's critical of the "War" on drugs...

"The War on Drugs is a War on Doctors"
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/124/the-war-on-drugs-is-a-war-on-doctors/

Here are some of his other articles on the topic...

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/?tag=War%20On%20Drugs

Btw, Ron Paul is totally against all abortions and even has Roe backing him since she's changed her view on abortion, whereas McCain is for abortion in certain cases(rape, incest). So I guess according to McCain the babies in the wombs of rape and incest victims aren't really babies. :(

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 29th 2008, 01:07 PM
There is surely more to this than meets the eye. Republicans have been known for not voting for things that have already been addressed or will add undue expenses. It's not like Americans have an endless supply of money. They have to stay within a budget irregardless of what everyone wants.

The GI Bill looks fine to me, and from what others with young adults serving have told me, there are well taken care of.

Since your question is in reference to education and cost, I understand there is the Top Up program to help offset costs.

How much more is really necessary.

The GI Bill is good if you wish to go to community college. If you wish to attend a good 4-year school, the payout isn't enough and benefits don't last long enough. It needs to be modernized to go with current and future education costs. The process also needs to be streamlined, as it is, the soldier/student can be halfway through the second semester before receiving the first payment as it fights it's way through red tape.

StarscreamX-2
Apr 29th 2008, 01:41 PM
Did some research on McCain,

Being shot down or being held a Prisoner of War hardly makes one a "American Hero".

AKA Jessica Lynch :rolleyes:

But!

What McCain did as a POW was pretty much AWESOME.

SO with that I have to respect the man.

Eric

Teke
Apr 29th 2008, 01:57 PM
The GI Bill is good if you wish to go to community college. If you wish to attend a good 4-year school, the payout isn't enough and benefits don't last long enough. It needs to be modernized to go with current and future education costs. The process also needs to be streamlined, as it is, the soldier/student can be halfway through the second semester before receiving the first payment as it fights it's way through red tape.

The point of the GI bill and the Top Up program is to be reasonable and not waste money. And let's not forget that the GI is already, simply by being a GI, more eligible than the average person for educational funding.

Let's look at all that is in favor of the GI and education. If a serviceman is in service the government pays in full for everything education related. And it's not limited in time, such as a 4 yr program at college.

So should there be unlimited amounts of money for eduction to servicemen? If so, why? As a draw for enlistment? Would that be fair?
The Top Up program pays the rest of the money, so how is there a limit.

So if the GI bill changes, then what do we do about the Top Up program, drop it, or will that even be addressed. Bush and McCain are republicans, not democrats, so they aren't going to say that enough isn't enough.

The democrats were on the new last night, after the report about the extra tax money being sent out, saying it wasn't enough for low income families. If one looks at the bigger picture of taxes, they'd see clearly that under Bush (2008) they've paid half of the taxes they paid under Clinton (1999). That info can be checked at taxfoundation.org

It's a good idea also to keep in mind it's not the president that makes law, it's the congress, the president just handles what they hand him. And since 2006 when we voted democrats in congress, we've seen, consumer confidence plummet, the cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon, unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase), American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses), Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars, 1% of American homes are in foreclosure (this has actually become higher in 2007-8).

I DON'T WANT THE DEMOCRATS CHANGE. I can't afford it.:lol:

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 29th 2008, 02:45 PM
If a serviceman is in service the government pays in full for everything education related.

Yes, and he somehow gets to use this while being deployed every 6 months? :rolleyes: Further, even if the soldier isn't getting deployed, most soldiers don't have time for school. My average work day began at 0500 when I woke up and concluded at 2000 when I got back to my driveway. Where in that timeframe do I have time for school? It was worse when I wasn't in the SOF community where I could expect to be standing around in the motorpool doing nothing until 2200. Good thing the govt would have paid for my education, right?

diffangle
Apr 29th 2008, 03:33 PM
What McCain did as a POW was pretty much AWESOME.

Is there something in particular you're talking about? Did you happen to check out that link I provided in my previous post on Vets against McCain? Some of the video's on there are worth watching.

Teke
Apr 29th 2008, 03:38 PM
Yes, and he somehow gets to use this while being deployed every 6 months? :rolleyes: Further, even if the soldier isn't getting deployed, most soldiers don't have time for school. My average work day began at 0500 when I woke up and concluded at 2000 when I got back to my driveway. Where in that timeframe do I have time for school? It was worse when I wasn't in the SOF community where I could expect to be standing around in the motorpool doing nothing until 2200. Good thing the govt would have paid for my education, right?

Aren't those things you are counseled about. I mean as far as scheduling.
I do understand that everyones circumstance isn't the same. But then that is just a matter of us dealing with what God is doing with us in our lives. Sometimes when we think it is the right time God doesn't agree.

Know that I sympathize with you on the matter. The war in Iraq isn't an ideal situation. But it is one we have to deal with.

I don't know all the particulars, but a friend of mines son was able to get his education while serving in the Air Force. He may have had an easier time as that was just before the war in Iraq broke out.

Think positive about this. I'm sure God is enabling you to be educated in a way no school could do, just by your being in the service. With no formal education other than your service duty, your more eligible for jobs that others wouldn't be without a formal education.

I believe that God is able to work it all out for you to His glory, however that comes about. And if you need extra money for education, God is able to provide that, be it the Top Up program or otherwise.

Have faith. With the whole country praying for you, and God on your side, how much better can things be for you.:)

As a survivor of Katrina, I can tell you that where the government falls short, God and his people take up the slack somehow. And sometimes that is exactly what God wants us to know.

My prayers are with you.:hug:

Clavicula_Nox
Apr 29th 2008, 06:09 PM
I don't know all the particulars, but a friend of mines son was able to get his education while serving in the Air Force. He may have had an easier time as that was just before the war in Iraq broke out.

That's fine and dandy for the Air Force, but they don't deal with the same hardships as any other branch of the military.