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Brother Mark
Apr 21st 2008, 02:33 PM
Food Rationing Confronts Breadbasket of the World

By JOSH GERSTEIN (http://www2.nysun.com/authors/Josh+Gerstein)
Staff Reporter of the Sun
April 21, 2008

MOUNTAIN VIEW (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Mountain+View), Calif. (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=California) — Many parts of America (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=United+States), long considered the breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable phenomenon: food rationing. Major retailers in New York, in areas of New England (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=New+England+States), and on the West Coast are limiting purchases of flour, rice, and cooking oil as demand outstrips supply. There are also anecdotal reports that some consumers are hoarding grain stocks.
At a Costco (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Costco+Wholesale+Corporat ion) Warehouse in Mountain View, Calif. (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Mountain+View+%28Californ ia%29), yesterday, shoppers grew frustrated and occasionally uttered expletives as they searched in vain for the large sacks of rice they usually buy.
"Where's the rice?" an engineer from Palo Alto (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Palo+Alto), Calif., Yajun Liu, said. "You should be able to buy something like rice. This is ridiculous."
The bustling store in the heart of Silicon Valley usually sells four or five varieties of rice to a clientele largely of Asian immigrants, but only about half a pallet of Indian-grown Basmati rice was left in stock. A 20-pound bag was selling for $15.99.
"You can't eat this every day. It's too heavy," a health care executive from Palo Alto, Sharad Patel, grumbled as his son loaded two sacks of the Basmati into a shopping cart. "We only need one bag but I'm getting two in case a neighbor or a friend needs it," the elder man said.



Here's the link to the rest of the article...


click here (http://www2.nysun.com/article/74994)

ProjectPeter
Apr 21st 2008, 03:21 PM
Folks better wake up... time is short and famine is here.

Brother Mark
Apr 21st 2008, 03:23 PM
Folks better wake up... time is short and famine is here.

I'm beginning to think the same exact thing...

ProjectPeter
Apr 21st 2008, 03:29 PM
Call me up Mark.... want to talk to you.

Brother Mark
Apr 21st 2008, 03:30 PM
OK. Will call you in about 30 mins.

cheech
Apr 21st 2008, 04:00 PM
Our church has been talking about the same thing...food shortages...and feel the same way. More prayer is needed.

menJesus
Apr 21st 2008, 08:22 PM
Personally, I believe the famine started with last years` drought.

I saw on CNN this morning, a news story about major traders sitting on their foods, in order to drive the prices up. :(

HisLeast
Apr 21st 2008, 08:31 PM
Folks better wake up <snip>

I hear this a lot, on a broad range of topics, but I'm always left wondering what it means practically.

threebigrocks
Apr 21st 2008, 08:46 PM
Our church has been talking about the same thing...food shortages...and feel the same way. More prayer is needed.

Much more prayer, from everyone. I wish more churches would talk about this.

menJesus
Apr 21st 2008, 08:47 PM
The best possible thing to do is to get into this mindset and stay in it:

GOD WILL PROVIDE

MrAnteater
Apr 21st 2008, 09:26 PM
I don't see any food shortages in the US. Its just more gloom and doom media hype. Any problem, real or imagined, always seems the worst in election years.

menJesus
Apr 21st 2008, 09:32 PM
If an article like the one in the OP gets broadcast over CNN, there will be a run on the grocery stores that will be as bad as the ones on the banks back in 1929. :(

It probably wouldn`t hurt to stock up a little, just till the panic subsides - if it ever does. :(

cheech
Apr 21st 2008, 11:30 PM
I don't see any food shortages in the US. Its just more gloom and doom media hype. Any problem, real or imagined, always seems the worst in election years.

This could very well be true, but our world does need alot of prayer, not just the U.S. There is nothing wrong with offering up more prayers as a precaution. We can't be fanatical about it of course and worry ourselves sick, but keeping an eye on the situation is a wise thing to do. We should always be alert to all things that go on.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:10 AM
Personally, I believe the famine started with last years` drought.

I saw on CNN this morning, a news story about major traders sitting on their foods, in order to drive the prices up. :(
That is how it often starts.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:12 AM
I hear this a lot, on a broad range of topics, but I'm always left wondering what it means practically.
Ever read the parables in Scripture where Jesus is speaking of the last days? Telling them not to sleep... many are sleeping and the day is quickly approaching. Means to wake up and stop sleeping. Not sure why that is difficult to understand I suppose... but there you go.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:15 AM
I don't see any food shortages in the US. Its just more gloom and doom media hype. Any problem, real or imagined, always seems the worst in election years.Then ignore it and I hope you are right. If not though... well... hey. Famine could never happen to us!

menJesus
Apr 22nd 2008, 09:21 AM
I don't see any food shortages in the US. Its just more gloom and doom media hype. Any problem, real or imagined, always seems the worst in election years.

You are right about the election year idea. But I don`t believe this is just hype. It is happening. :(

daughter
Apr 22nd 2008, 11:41 AM
It's not election year in the UK. I was talking to some women from my church today, and they were panicking about the price rises of basic food stuffs. I hadn't noticed as much, because being vegan I tend to buy the most bog standard stuff and cook from scratch. But I had noticed flour was up in price.

Apparently cheese, eggs, meat and milk are all more expensive now. I can't remember the weight of it, but one woman was saying that her regular block of cheese went up, since last week, from £3.06 to £5.67.

That strikes me as a pretty massive price hike. And like I say, nobody's electioning over here, and people are beginning to worry.

Brother Mark
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:00 PM
It's happening in Japan too. And of course the third world is already feeling it and starting to riot. Here's an article about Japan.

Click here (http://business.theage.com.au/japans-hunger-becomes-a-dire-warning-for-other-nations/20080420-27ey.html)

cheech
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:12 PM
Then ignore it and I hope you are right. If not though... well... hey. Famine could never happen to us!

Neither could being attacked on our own soil ;).

torazon
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:26 PM
My wife and I were just talking this morning about how high our food bill was this week due to grain and fuel issues. We bought the same stuff we usually do and we do not buy extras like junk food, nor do we buy premium goods.
I am not one to jump on any bandwagon about this being close to the end times as this has been thought since the day after Jesus ascended. I hope it is though :)

MrAnteater
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:56 PM
I don't deny there have been jumps in food prices. All raw materials across the board have jumped in price.

But famine in the US being right around the corner? Give me a break. Anyone drive through the corn belt recently? Still millions upon millions of acres of food growing. There is a difference between what's actually growing and commodity traders manipulation of raw materials prices. Has gold suddenly become so scare that there is a real legitimate reason it went from $300/oz to $1000/oz? Nope. Raw materials speculation is the new hot area. Just as the housing market was in the early 2000's and tech stocks before that.

I stopped buying into the alarmist theories the mass media is pushing. Bad news sells. These are the same folks that are so convinced that man made global warming is real and the earth (and Al Gore) is their God.

I've already stockpiled plenty of my favorite foods, just in case, lol. 9mm, 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm, .40 S&W, and 12 gauge. :D

moonglow
Apr 22nd 2008, 03:38 PM
If an article like the one in the OP gets broadcast over CNN, there will be a run on the grocery stores that will be as bad as the ones on the banks back in 1929. :(

It probably wouldn`t hurt to stock up a little, just till the panic subsides - if it ever does. :(

And that's it...American HAS seen worse times before...like in the Great Depression...so whether this could be different somehow, I don't know. I tend to shy away from the alarmist stuff too....I remember everyone storing up extra food and water before it turned 2000 thinking everything would collapse that New Year's Eve...and nothing happened. I am sure folks in the great depression were saying similar thing also...but what is different this time then back then? Maybe we need to do a quick history lesson and find out?

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/depression/about.htm

Though the U.S. economy had gone into depression six months earlier, the Great Depression may be said to have begun with a catastrophic collapse of stock-market prices on the New York Stock Exchange in October 1929. During the next three years stock prices in the United States continued to fall, until by late 1932 they had dropped to only about 20 percent of their value in 1929. Besides ruining many thousands of individual investors, this precipitous decline in the value of assets greatly strained banks and other financial institutions, particularly those holding stocks in their portfolios. Many banks were consequently forced into insolvency; by 1933, 11,000 of the United States' 25,000 banks had failed. The failure of so many banks, combined with a general and nationwide loss of confidence in the economy, led to much-reduced levels of spending and demand and hence of production, thus aggravating the downward spiral. The result was drastically falling output and drastically rising unemployment; by 1932, U.S. manufacturing output had fallen to 54 percent of its 1929 level, and unemployment had risen to between 12 and 15 million workers, or 25-30 percent of the work force.

The Great Depression began in the United States but quickly turned into a worldwide economic slump owing to the special and intimate relationships that had been forged between the United States and European economies after World War I. The United States had emerged from the war as the major creditor and financier of postwar Europe, whose national economies had been greatly weakened by the war itself, by war debts, and, in the case of Germany and other defeated nations, by the need to pay war reparations.

Extreme drought also was going on during this time, called the Dust Bowl days.http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/depression/dustbowl.htm
(http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/depression/dustbowl.htm)

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/depression/overview.htm
Apparently there was a food shortage then too:
By 1933 millions of Americans were out of work. Bread lines were a common sight in most cities. Hundreds of thousands roamed the country in search of food, work and shelter. "Brother, can you spare a dime?" went the refrain of a popular song.

By 1940 nearly 6 million farmers were receiving federal subsidies under this program. The new act likewise provided loans on surplus crops, insurance for wheat and a system of planned storage to ensure a stable food supply. Soon, prices of agricultural commodities rose, and economic stability for the farmer began to seem possible.

Now what is happening now that didn't happen then? one thing I know they probably weren't having a large bee die off going on .

This article on the bee's dying...why it seems like such a minor thing...I mean who cares if alot of bee's are dying? Well we should be! without bee there is no crops: Honey bees are mysteriously vanishing across the country, putting $15 billion worth of fruits, nuts and vegetables at risk. (http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/animals/bees.asp?gclid=CNzAypD77pICFQEoPQodPGqHeA)

Why are the bees leaving? Scientists studying the disorder believe a combination of factors could be making bees sick, including pesticide exposure, an inadequate food supply, and a new virus that targets bees' immune systems. But more research is needed to determine the exact cause of the bees' distress.

Bee Friendly, Bee Safe: Here's How

Bees play a central role in our food supply. Congress has held hearings on the issue of vanishing honeybees, but needs to take quick action to support further scientific research into Colony Collapse Disorder, and help beekeepers affected by the disorder to revive their hives so our crops can keep growing.

And thousands of bats are dying...bats keep down the insect population and some help pollinate plants too: Thousands of U.S. Bats Dying and No One Knows Why (http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_11135.cfm)

When the smallest in the food chain are affected it always goes up the food chain and everything in the eco system is affected, including us. We have bats that come out at dusk here and fly around eating bugs...they fly so fast its hard to get a good look at them. We also have alot of bees too...so far but Nate went with a friends dad year a couple of years ago to his bee hives he has and one whole hive was missing. The bees just gone. The next year, it was worse. He has no idea what happened to them either.

Now so far when I walk into a store, its full of food...I don't see any empty shelves unless I go in on a Monday and they have restocked from the weekend which happens sometimes, but for sure food prices have gone way up...they have to charge more because they are paying more for the gas to haul in the food and goods. I don't have the money to go buy extra food ...right now its hard enough buying what we need without trying to buy extra of anything. What ever happens its in God's hands anyway, not ours.

God bless

JenniferBerry
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:10 PM
2 Peter 3:3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

torazon
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:12 PM
I don't deny there have been jumps in food prices. All raw materials across the board have jumped in price.

But famine in the US being right around the corner? Give me a break. Anyone drive through the corn belt recently? Still millions upon millions of acres of food growing. There is a difference between what's actually growing and commodity traders manipulation of raw materials prices. Has gold suddenly become so scare that there is a real legitimate reason it went from $300/oz to $1000/oz? Nope. Raw materials speculation is the new hot area. Just as the housing market was in the early 2000's and tech stocks before that.

I stopped buying into the alarmist theories the mass media is pushing. Bad news sells. These are the same folks that are so convinced that man made global warming is real and the earth (and Al Gore) is their God.

I've already stockpiled plenty of my favorite foods, just in case, lol. 9mm, 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm, .40 S&W, and 12 gauge. :D

I agree completely. The media will do anything for a story, especially bad news. I will take a wait and see approach as I do with everything. I am certainly not worried by any stretch of the imagination. It's out of my hands and the Lord is ultimately in control.

moonglow
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:23 PM
2 Peter 3:3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Jennifer I don't think anyone is mocking Jesus not returning here...unless I missed something along this thread. I DO however think people need to take what these Pastors on here are saying more seriously about a food shortage. While so far we aren't as in bad of shape as they were in the Great Depression...CNN is warning its coming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR7h8NBQU3E
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR7h8NBQU3E)3/1 CNN Your Money: Talks of Great Depression Coming

Whether it does or not, is to be seen...my point was only we have gone through it before and survived it...we can again. This doesn't mean there won't be a food shortage though. I am deeply concerned about the bees and the bats and have been watchings news stories on that for years. And it only takes one bad year of wide spread drought to cause major food problems....plus if there is a reducing in bats controlling the insects, crops could be wiped out due to insects...pesticides only do so much in controlling them...nature does alot to help...when things are out of balance, it can affect everything greatly.

I don't think we should just poo-poo it off. While I literally can't do anything about it...can't buy extra food...and have no choice but to leave it in God's hands...warnings of famine were often given in the bible to people. Everyone remember the story of Joseph?

Genesis 41:53-55

53 At last the seven years of bumper crops throughout the land of Egypt came to an end. 54 Then the seven years of famine began, just as Joseph had predicted. The famine also struck all the surrounding countries, but throughout Egypt there was plenty of food. 55 Eventually, however, the famine spread throughout the land of Egypt as well. And when the people cried out to Pharaoh for food, he told them, “Go to Joseph, and do whatever he tells you.”

I just think we need to listen to the spiritual leaders on the board and show them more respect is all. If many of them are concerned about this, I think we need to listen to them.

God bless

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:33 PM
It's not election year in the UK. I was talking to some women from my church today, and they were panicking about the price rises of basic food stuffs. I hadn't noticed as much, because being vegan I tend to buy the most bog standard stuff and cook from scratch. But I had noticed flour was up in price.

Apparently cheese, eggs, meat and milk are all more expensive now. I can't remember the weight of it, but one woman was saying that her regular block of cheese went up, since last week, from £3.06 to £5.67.

That strikes me as a pretty massive price hike. And like I say, nobody's electioning over here, and people are beginning to worry.It is a big hike and it's happening here as well in that regard. I don't see it coming down any time soon either... the weird weather... gas going through the roof... drought the last few years in Southern and Midwest states... none of that makes for much confidence that the prices will drop.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:35 PM
Neither could being attacked on our own soil ;).Yeah... and go back to a biblical example... rain? Are you crazy with this whole talk of a flood?

thunderbyrd
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:47 PM
whether or not there will be a famine, i definetly see prices of food shooting up. diesel fuel price rises, food price rises, that's not hard to figure out.

so i started buying big bags of dried beans. they store for along time, they're cheap enough for right now, and beans will sustain life.

but something to point out: i've been told that the government has laws in effect that in a time of emergency, they are authorized to seize hoarded food. whether that's true or not i don't know. but the main grocery chain in my area is Kroger's. kroger issues all it's customers a "kroger card" which the customer uses for a discount. and when you use this card, kroger keeps a record of your purchase. so if you've been buying 50 lb bags of rice or whatever with your card, there is a record of it.

FYI.

daughter
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:51 PM
It's true... in times of famine martial law can come into effect, and food can be siezed.

It's happened in the UK a few times in the twentieth century. Obviously during the second world war, but less obviously at the start of the century, when the army "redistribued" food in Liverpool, at a time when there was a lot of lawlessness in that part of the UK. Same laws apply, according to what I've read, in the US.

Whether it will get that bad, I don't know...

MrAnteater
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:07 PM
Neither could being attacked on our own soil ;).
Yeah... and go back to a biblical example... rain? Are you crazy with this whole talk of a flood?You can mock me and my opinions all you want, I could care less. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. I never denied that the end times may be near. However, I choose to gather my news information a little more intelligently than just blindly listening to news reports from ungodly left wing media outlets that are big on hype and short on facts.

He will return like a thief in the night and only God the father knows the time. I get tired of everyone thinking they have His timing figured out.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:11 PM
I don't deny there have been jumps in food prices. All raw materials across the board have jumped in price.

But famine in the US being right around the corner? Give me a break. Anyone drive through the corn belt recently? Still millions upon millions of acres of food growing. There is a difference between what's actually growing and commodity traders manipulation of raw materials prices. Has gold suddenly become so scare that there is a real legitimate reason it went from $300/oz to $1000/oz? Nope. Raw materials speculation is the new hot area. Just as the housing market was in the early 2000's and tech stocks before that.

I stopped buying into the alarmist theories the mass media is pushing. Bad news sells. These are the same folks that are so convinced that man made global warming is real and the earth (and Al Gore) is their God.

I've already stockpiled plenty of my favorite foods, just in case, lol. 9mm, 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm, .40 S&W, and 12 gauge. :DIn all honesty... the mass news isn't really sounding much an alarm at all.

And all that corn you see growing in the midwest... much of it is just feed corn because that is easier to grow and there is less loss and the livestock eats it up... humans can't... and much else is being used for fuel. Those are stark realities. We can say it ain't happening but look around the world and what exactly do you think these folks are rioting about? And guys... our stockpile of grain just isn't there any longer. What you see growing this year in them there fields... as long as there isn't a major problem along the season then it will get us through another year perhaps. But there is another problem... the country is feeding more and more and more people as more and more people are being born at a rate higher than folks are dying. More and more folks come to this country because they just can't make it in their own... I mean the recipe is there. Add a bit more drought and a touch of flood with a dash of hail and a fire or two... yes... we could be in some very serious trouble come real soon.

Folks who can do need to prepare. That it can't happen here... that just makes no sense... sure it can.

Gard
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:23 PM
I once knew a young lady who was born and raised in Nebraska and she was telling us one day about the misconceptions people had about the state. And she told us that 99% of the corn grown there was for feeding livestock, not people. She said that when you bought corn there out of the grocery store, it was mostly imported.

daughter
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:34 PM
A major reason I don't eat animal products. Quite beside animal welfare issues, I resent the fact that so much food that could feed humans is going to feed cows. I grew up, partly, on farms with great big grain silos full of corn imported from the developing world.

The UK could very easily be self sufficient in food issues, if we all ate significantly less meat. But because we have to buy up grain to feed cows and chickens, etc, we end up being mucked around by international import and export laws, and exploiting folks in the developing world.

One thing I think though, looking at this thread... if things go badly, and we do all end up feeling the pinch, the ones who "saw it coming" have a danger of feeling self righteous, and saying, "see? We told you so!" Whereas if the weather holds out okay and famine is avoided the ones who weren't pessimistic will say, "darned naysayers..."

Basically, whatever happens, it's in God's hands, not ours. And it's not worth us falling out over it. Jesus does promise that seasons and harvests will remain to the end... sorry, I can't remember the direct scripture. Help anyone???

StarscreamX-2
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:35 PM
I'm unconcerned.

Period.

I could care less.

Why?

Not one farmer, not one living person dwelling on this planet provided me with one drop of water, one morsel of food. No One. Not a single living soul on this world.

Shocked?

When is the last time you thanked God for anything?

VisionOfYou
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:40 PM
I've been reading a little on the rice issue, and apparently it's due to drought and irrigation problems in China and Indochina. There has been a widespread drought in China and that is supposed to really start being felt internationally soon b/c of how severe it is. They are doing some major changes, but these are against the recommendations of just about every environmentalist imaginable. Most of the changes include a South-to-North water transfer through a series of canals. Then there is the unsustainable withdrawal of water out of the aquifers, especially around Beijing. This is getting so bad that the contaminants now have a really high concentration because the water levels are so low. Some are even unsafe for irrigation now.

Warrior Prophet
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:43 PM
Read in the paper this week that a third of the fishing fleet is sitting idle down in Kodiak because of the price of diesel and if it keeps going on very long up here and in other fishing communities across the state you can certainly expect the price of fish to go up.

Alaska is just to major a seafood supplier for it not to effect the cost sometime later this year.

moonglow
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:45 PM
In all honesty... the mass news isn't really sounding much an alarm at all.

And all that corn you see growing in the midwest... much of it is just feed corn because that is easier to grow and there is less loss and the livestock eats it up... humans can't... and much else is being used for fuel. Those are stark realities. We can say it ain't happening but look around the world and what exactly do you think these folks are rioting about? And guys... our stockpile of grain just isn't there any longer. What you see growing this year in them there fields... as long as there isn't a major problem along the season then it will get us through another year perhaps. But there is another problem... the country is feeding more and more and more people as more and more people are being born at a rate higher than folks are dying. More and more folks come to this country because they just can't make it in their own... I mean the recipe is there. Add a bit more drought and a touch of flood with a dash of hail and a fire or two... yes... we could be in some very serious trouble come real soon.

Folks who can do need to prepare. That it can't happen here... that just makes no sense... sure it can.

Of course it can happen ...history proves it. That is why I posted on the Great Depression..it happened once and can happen again. I think I am going to plant as many vegetables as I can this year in the garden. If nothing else it will save a little on my food bill. Nate already planted a potatoe out there he waters everyday. And I get tomato plants coming up from the seeds of tomato plants from last year. Too bad I can grown soy milk out there...lol.

God bless

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 06:17 PM
And that's it...American HAS seen worse times before...like in the Great Depression...so whether this could be different somehow, I don't know. I tend to shy away from the alarmist stuff too....I remember everyone storing up extra food and water before it turned 2000 thinking everything would collapse that New Year's Eve...and nothing happened. I am sure folks in the great depression were saying similar thing also...but what is different this time then back then? Maybe we need to do a quick history lesson and find out?

Sure we've seen worse but then let's pull out some thoughts here and see where they go.

Back in the time of the great depression... folks were TIMES LESS spoiled than they are now. Folks worked hard and many had land. There were TIMES LESS people in the U.S. to contend with and get through that time as well. The big difference is in sheer numbers as well as in mindset. Today... they would riot in our streets and burn down the cities... shoot... look at what they do when their team wins a championship... imagine when they have no food.

And as well... big difference between what we actually can see happening now as opposed to a "theory" such as Y2K was. I go to the store and do our shopping for food. I fill the car up with fuel. At the end of the day... there is not much money left (if any) and we do fairly well compared to a lot of folks. That isn't a theory... it's a fact. How much further can it go up before even we are without? Not much further... again that is just reality.

Here is a question for all of us to ponder... how much further before we do start to put a bit extra food aside? Rice and beans... may not taste the greatest day in and day out... but you will live eating it. Right now... even all that has gone up but you can find a 25 pound bag of rice still for under 10 bucks in most places... beans... about the same. So a 20 here and there.... you can get yourself through some tough times and if you can stretch that out with some self-control... you can get through long tough times.

I know everyone hates to wear the "alarmist" label and that word has been tossed out several times in this thread already. But this isn't alarmist... it is happening and only a blind person would miss it.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 06:28 PM
You can mock me and my opinions all you want, I could care less. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. I never denied that the end times may be near. However, I choose to gather my news information a little more intelligently than just blindly listening to news reports from ungodly left wing media outlets that are big on hype and short on facts.

He will return like a thief in the night and only God the father knows the time. I get tired of everyone thinking they have His timing figured out.Timing? Did you ever read that part where Jesus makes it clear that we will know the season? If we can't discern the season of His coming then how do we differ from the religious folks who couldn't discern when Jesus came the first time? You know... the whole you can look at the sky and tell it is going to rain but yet you see what you see and you can't discern who He is and the fact He is in fact here among them?

Again... this has nothing to do with being an alarmist. Alarmist are like the boy that cried wolf and are about as stupid a bunch of folks as stupid can be. But one need but a little bit of that God given prudence (common sense) to understand and see clearly that hey... something is happening here and we need to prepare ourselves as best we can. There is only so much that I could afford to possibly do and I trust God totally to get me through it. But for me to sit back and do nothing when the evidence is clearly there that something is happening across the world... not a lot of prudence in that. Sure... my opinion. You don't care for that opinion then cool... your call and you have your own opinion. But I'll share it for those that want to hear it... some know exactly where I am coming from and hopefully this will draw them to do something while they have time to do something. You don't want to... you certainly don't have to.

I couldn't even begin to tell you the when... but this I will say and say it loudly... it ain't long from now.

MikeAD
Apr 22nd 2008, 06:42 PM
Lets start by becoming informed and not electing people into office who fit the same agenda as those in the past, and those of the current adminstration.

Prayer, we need prayer, we also need action.

Where would we all be today if Jesus hadn't done anything and had just prayed?

Im not talking about violence, im talking about educating those around us, bringing people to church, passing out Bibles, Talking to anyone that will listen.

Pray yss, but pray while you DO :D.

Nothing in my life has ever frustrated me more than the statements "God will provide" or its all part of the plan. Yeah, ok, so it is, it might be, we don't know. What we do know is we have an obligation and a duty to bring as many people with us as possible into heaven. Have faith, yes, but if your neighbor doesn't have faith, and you haven't planted any seeds then you haven't done your job.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 06:44 PM
I agree completely. The media will do anything for a story, especially bad news. I will take a wait and see approach as I do with everything. I am certainly not worried by any stretch of the imagination. It's out of my hands and the Lord is ultimately in control.Yeah... come on guys... that's exactly what folks said about New Orleans. Thing is... folks told them to get out but they stayed because God was ultimately in control. Yes... He was. He told them to get out of there... but they waited to see. Guess what they saw ultimately... caused them to wish they would have heeded the warning. ;)

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 06:52 PM
Lets start by becoming informed and not electing people into office who fit the same agenda as those in the past, and those of the current adminstration.

Prayer, we need prayer, we also need action.

Where would we all be today if Jesus hadn't done anything and had just prayed?

Im not talking about violence, im talking about educating those around us, bringing people to church, passing out Bibles, Talking to anyone that will listen.

Pray less, but pray while you do :D.

Nothing in my life has ever frustrated me more than the statements "God will provide" or its all part of the plan. Yeah, ok, so it is, it might be, we don't know. What we do know is we have an obligation and a duty to bring as many people with us as possible into heaven. Have faith, yes, but if your neighbor doesn't have faith, and you haven't planted any seeds then you haven't done your job.
Yes exactly. Prayer is wonderful and a MUST. But prayer without legs to it... it is just words prayed. Like folks praying for lost souls but they don't put legs to those prayers and go out to win lost souls... great you're praying I guess... but something is broke.

Reality... religious speak will bite many a folk in the proverbial fanny. God gave us common sense for a reason... He really did. ;)

HisLeast
Apr 22nd 2008, 06:56 PM
Is there a way we can discuss this without any side being accused of burying their heads in the sand while the other is accused of crying wolf?

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:10 PM
Is there a way we can discuss this without any side being accused of burying their heads in the sand while the other is accused of crying wolf?
Doubt it really... some are burying their head in the sand just as sure as God made little green apples. Some may even be crying wolf. But point is... we need to look at reality and facts. Reality and fact... stuff is coming. Either we are going to prepare and put legs to our faith and prayer... or we are going to bury our head in the sand and take the "wait and we'll see" approach.

I'll say this and to coin a phrase from Paul... I believe I say it by the Spirit of God. Folks need to get ready. Even with little we can prepare. Sure, it will be harder for some than others and that's just the nature of things. YES... we will all have to trust God. If I have a ten gallan jar or a one gallon jar... I will have to trust God to keep that jar filled long enough to get through whatever this time might bring. But do nothing but wait? Not sure that one can make a strong biblical case for that sort of planning (or lack thereof) and at the same time call it some sort of faith.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:12 PM
Let me add this... let's say you store up a hundred pounds of rice and beans and nothing happens. In the end... share that with others who have need (in feast or famine there are plenty of those folks) and you will have done well.

HisLeast
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:24 PM
Doubt it really... some are burying their head in the sand just as sure as God made little green apples. Some may even be crying wolf. But point is... we need to look at reality and facts. Reality and fact... stuff is coming. Either we are going to prepare and put legs to our faith and prayer... or we are going to bury our head in the sand and take the "wait and we'll see" approach.

I'll say this and to coin a phrase from Paul... I believe I say it by the Spirit of God. Folks need to get ready. Even with little we can prepare. Sure, it will be harder for some than others and that's just the nature of things. YES... we will all have to trust God. If I have a ten gallan jar or a one gallon jar... I will have to trust God to keep that jar filled long enough to get through whatever this time might bring. But do nothing but wait? Not sure that one can make a strong biblical case for that sort of planning (or lack thereof) and at the same time call it some sort of faith.

Ok... and there are a lot of really practical things we can discuss to that end. We can talk about what it means to "be ready". We can talk about what tangible signs we see about the season that we're in. We can talk about the things we're doing to prepare both physically and spiritually.

But we can't eat sarcasm nor drink glib remarks.

I'm engaged in a very similar discussion on a secular board, which has its own divisions, but I haven't seen a venom laced post in the whole thread.

So I'll ask again: Is there a way we can discuss this without any side being accused of burying their heads in the sand while the other is accused of crying wolf?

Because really PP, it means nothing for me if you think doomsday is next month, and even less if you think I'm blind. But I get great benefit from learning how you prepare or what signs you see.

threebigrocks
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:26 PM
Let me add this... let's say you store up a hundred pounds of rice and beans and nothing happens. In the end... share that with others who have need (in feast or famine there are plenty of those folks) and you will have done well.

If nothing else, we have done well in the Lord's eyes to be prepaired and live according to the example He led.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:46 PM
Ok... and there are a lot of really practical things we can discuss to that end. We can talk about what it means to "be ready". We can talk about what tangible signs we see about the season that we're in. We can talk about the things we're doing to prepare both physically and spiritually.

But we can't eat sarcasm nor drink glib remarks.

I'm engaged in a very similar discussion on a secular board, which has its own divisions, but I haven't seen a venom laced post in the whole thread.

So I'll ask again: Is there a way we can discuss this without any side being accused of burying their heads in the sand while the other is accused of crying wolf?

Because really PP, it means nothing for me if you think doomsday is next month, and even less if you think I'm blind. But I get great benefit from learning how you prepare or what signs you see.
No you aren't. If you were then you would see what I am saying and not think it sarcasm. Rest yourself assured... I am being anything but sarcastic and am pretty near as serious as brain surgery. ;)

StarscreamX-2
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:47 PM
Let me add this... let's say you store up a hundred pounds of rice and beans and nothing happens. In the end... share that with others who have need (in feast or famine there are plenty of those folks) and you will have done well.

What if I simply not worry about it, give away the money I would waste on food i would store up, and help the starving, now?

I could die in the next minute if God so willed.

moonglow
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:47 PM
Sure we've seen worse but then let's pull out some thoughts here and see where they go.

Back in the time of the great depression... folks were TIMES LESS spoiled than they are now. Folks worked hard and many had land. There were TIMES LESS people in the U.S. to contend with and get through that time as well. The big difference is in sheer numbers as well as in mindset. Today... they would riot in our streets and burn down the cities... shoot... look at what they do when their team wins a championship... imagine when they have no food.

And as well... big difference between what we actually can see happening now as opposed to a "theory" such as Y2K was. I go to the store and do our shopping for food. I fill the car up with fuel. At the end of the day... there is not much money left (if any) and we do fairly well compared to a lot of folks. That isn't a theory... it's a fact. How much further can it go up before even we are without? Not much further... again that is just reality.

Here is a question for all of us to ponder... how much further before we do start to put a bit extra food aside? Rice and beans... may not taste the greatest day in and day out... but you will live eating it. Right now... even all that has gone up but you can find a 25 pound bag of rice still for under 10 bucks in most places... beans... about the same. So a 20 here and there.... you can get yourself through some tough times and if you can stretch that out with some self-control... you can get through long tough times.

I know everyone hates to wear the "alarmist" label and that word has been tossed out several times in this thread already. But this isn't alarmist... it is happening and only a blind person would miss it.

I think you missed my other post here:http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1613331&postcount=38
(http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1613331&postcount=38) where I was agreeing with you, that yes its possible for their to be a food shortage since it did happen in the Great depression. History shows us that. I also said I was going to plant some vegetables in my garden.

I also posted here that even CNN is warning of another Great depression coming: http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1613215&postcount=26

God bless

daughter
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:51 PM
I'm unconcerned.

Period.

I could care less.

Why?

Not one farmer, not one living person dwelling on this planet provided me with one drop of water, one morsel of food. No One. Not a single living soul on this world.

Shocked?

When is the last time you thanked God for anything?
I think most Christians thank God all the time, and realise that He is the source of everything.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:52 PM
I think you missed my other post here:http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1613331&postcount=38
(http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1613331&postcount=38) where I was agreeing with you, that yes its possible for their to be a food shortage since it did happen in the Great depression. History shows us that. I also said I was going to plant some vegetables in my garden.

I also posted here that even CNN is warning of another Great depression coming: http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1613215&postcount=26

God bless
I saw them. Was just pointing out that be it as bad (I figure it will be even worse) then it is going to be worse because of the mindset of folks today as compared to then. Think of it this way. Look at the freaking out that folks do now days when in a war... over quite a few year we've lost around 3,000 troops. Imagine the fit we'd of had should we be in another WWI or WWII... even Viet Nam where we lost that many folks in a single battle. We can't deal with half of what the folks dealt with in the great depression. We're a different people today.

HisLeast
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:55 PM
No you aren't. If you were then you would see what I am saying and not think it sarcasm.

No I'm not what?
If I were what?


Rest yourself assured... I am being anything but sarcastic and am pretty near as serious as brain surgery. ;)

I'm not worried about anyone's seriousness.

moonglow
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:01 PM
I saw them. Was just pointing out that be it as bad (I figure it will be even worse) then it is going to be worse because of the mindset of folks today as compared to then. Think of it this way. Look at the freaking out that folks do now days when in a war... over quite a few year we've lost around 3,000 troops. Imagine the fit we'd of had should we be in another WWI or WWII... even Viet Nam where we lost that many folks in a single battle. We can't deal with half of what the folks dealt with in the great depression. We're a different people today.

Oh..yes I see now what you are saying. Its like my son...he has no idea what its like to be really deprived of anything needs....it would be very hard on him. On the other hand I have gone hungry and know what's its like to eat just about anything....:(

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:05 PM
What if I simply not worry about it, give away the money I would waste on food i would store up, and help the starving, now?

I could die in the next minute if God so willed.There you go. If that gets you through the day then go for it!

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:06 PM
I think most Christians thank God all the time, and realise that He is the source of everything.I think so as well. But hey... it sounds good to say I guess. ;)

IPet2_9
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:06 PM
I had an African missionary friend to the U.S., he joked around about how Americans will go for a few hours without eating, and they will put their hand on their tummy and go, "Oh, I'm starving!" He's from Africa. You don't know what starving is.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:08 PM
No I'm not what?
If I were what?



I'm not worried about anyone's seriousness.
And of course you aren't worried about anyones seriousness... but you're interested in why and what etc... that's my point. You're not really that interested because when there is no sarcasm... you want to see it so therefore it is at least in your own mind. It is a serious issue.... might not be with you and that's cool. As I told the others... do what you will and that's cool. You don't agree then fine... I ain't talking to you. ;) Talking to those that see it as a serious issue.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:09 PM
Oh..yes I see now what you are saying. Its like my son...he has no idea what its like to be really deprived of anything needs....it would be very hard on him. On the other hand I have gone hungry and know what's its like to eat just about anything....:(
Exactly. Folks in those times... it was hard on them. In our day... it will be TIMES harder even if it never gets as bad.

ProjectPeter
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:10 PM
I had an African missionary friend to the U.S., he joked around about how Americans will go for a few hours without eating, and they will put their hand on their tummy and go, "Oh, I'm starving!" He's from Africa. You don't know what starving is.
Exactly right.

menJesus
Apr 22nd 2008, 11:38 PM
ProjectPeter said:

"I know everyone hates to wear the "alarmist" label and that word has been tossed out several times in this thread already. But this isn't alarmist... it is happening and only a blind person would miss it."

Amen, amen, and amen!

MikeAD
Apr 22nd 2008, 11:40 PM
What if I simply not worry about it, give away the money I would waste on food i would store up, and help the starving, now?

I could die in the next minute if God so willed.

God doesn't want you to starve, God doesn't want you to die.

There is nothing wrong with buying storable foods. On your model why the heck should anyone do anything, let me just sit here, God will present me with salmon and dessert. Or you can do for yourself, use the tools God has given you. You have a job so you don't starve. If you have extra you are able to help those around you.

Rev. 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written in it, for the time is at hand.

Did you ever consider that that verse means those who read this and understand are blessed because they will be prepared? You don't have to starve, you don't have to die.

If it were to be the end times you are a Christian and YOU are here to CONVERT others. What good are you if you are dead?

threebigrocks
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:28 AM
What good are you if you are dead?

To the world - a dead guy isn't any good. ;)

To those who will need to survive the shortages that are to come - which is everyone on this earth today - we will have to face many realities, not only the shortage of food although that will be challenge enough in and of itself.

MikeAD
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:34 AM
To the world - a dead guy isn't any good. ;)

To those who will need to survive the shortages that are to come - which is everyone on this earth today - we will have to face many realities, not only the shortage of food although that will be challenge enough in and of itself.

And youre know good to the Kingdom if you die foolishly when you should be converting.

cheech
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:47 AM
You can mock me and my opinions all you want, I could care less. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. I never denied that the end times may be near. However, I choose to gather my news information a little more intelligently than just blindly listening to news reports from ungodly left wing media outlets that are big on hype and short on facts.

He will return like a thief in the night and only God the father knows the time. I get tired of everyone thinking they have His timing figured out.

That wasn't a mock against you and I'm sorry if it came across that way :hug:. You're right...everyone has a right to their opinion and we shouldn't accept what others say blindly. God's time is not our time and our time is not God's time and we all know that NO ONE knows the time or day of Christ's coming.

My point was that people can become very lax in their ways of thinking (myself included) and it did happen. People didn't think we'd ever get attacked on our soil. We thought we were safe. Behind the scenes, signs showing there may be a problem weren't taken as seriously as they should have and the end result was tragic. The same goes for the topic at hand. The fact is, we don't know when our Lord will come, but people for years have been saying the same thing...it won't happen in my time...it won't happen in my time. Then what constitutes a good time for it to happen? This is exactly the way of thinking that will cause many to miss the boat when it actually happens be it this time or in the next generation. Isn't it always better to be on the safe side of things and make the most of everyday as if it were our last...as if the Lord was appearing that very day...then to toss it aside thinking it's hype which many do. It doesn't mean we go fanatic and go into a frenzy, which I agree with you on that...but it's like the following parable:

Matt 25:1-13
The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'

7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.' 9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'

10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'

12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

13"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

You're right, we don't know when the Lord is coming...no one does...but we must continuously watch all the signs and be prepared always. If he doesn't come in our time...fine...we prepare others for when he does come because we must always be prepared. As the verse says..."Therefore, keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."

If anything, lets learn from the past. Looking at the Great Depression, there were signs of those times before it happened. Learning from the past can help us survive the future.

threebigrocks
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:49 AM
And youre know good to the Kingdom if you die foolishly when you should be converting.

It is foolish to die because we didn't prepaire to remain alive in order to preach the gospel. 1 Philipians says it all. To die is gain. We need to be willing to die for Him, but fight to the end as we and the rest of the world struggle to find a bowl of rice. It will come down to common sense, and we need to be a witness even unto death. And it will come down to that.

Brother Mark
Apr 23rd 2008, 02:29 PM
Two things that got my attention about this particular food shortage... it is the first time I can remember that it is a world wide happening. And it is the first time that it was not completely caused by mankind.

Man's actions are influencing it. As China and India become richer, they are eating more meat which is driving up the cost of grain. (This occurs because it takes more grain to make meat than what it would to feed a person.) But one HUGE cause of the shortage is the drought conditions in Australia. We are also experiencing drought conditions here in the US but it hasn't gotten that bad yet.

I know the great depression had some similarities but I wasn't around then.

Brother Mark
Apr 24th 2008, 12:26 AM
Sams club is limiting how much rice it's customers can buy. Here's the beginning of the article...

By Nicole Maestri
NEW YORK, April 23 (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc's (WMT.N: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=WMT.N), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=WMT.N), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=WMT.N)) Sam's Club warehouse division said on Wednesday it is limiting sales of several types of rice, the latest sign that fears of a rice shortage are rippling around the world.
Sam's Club, the No. 2 U.S. warehouse club operator, said it is limiting sales of Jasmine, Basmati and long grain white rice "due to recent supply and demand trends."
U.S. rice futures hitting an all-time high Wednesday on worries about supply shortages.
On Tuesday, Costco Wholesale Corp (COST.O: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=COST.O), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=COST.O), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=COST.O)), the largest U.S. warehouse club operator, said it has seen increased demand for items like rice and flour as customers, worried about global food shortages and rising prices, stock up.
Sam's Club, the No. 2 U.S. warehouse club operator, is limiting sales of the 20-pound (9 kg), bulk bags of rice to four bags per customer per visit, and is working with suppliers to ensure the products remain in stock.
Warehouse clubs cater to individual shoppers as well as small businesses and restaurant owners looking to buy cheaper, bulk goods.
With prices for basic food items surging, customers have been going to the clubs to try to save money on bulk sizes of everything from pasta to cooking oil and rice.



You can read the whole article by



click here (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2323679120080423)

moonglow
Apr 24th 2008, 02:32 AM
Sams club is limiting how much rice it's customers can buy. Here's the beginning of the article...

By Nicole Maestri
NEW YORK, April 23 (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc's (WMT.N: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=WMT.N), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=WMT.N), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=WMT.N)) Sam's Club warehouse division said on Wednesday it is limiting sales of several types of rice, the latest sign that fears of a rice shortage are rippling around the world.
Sam's Club, the No. 2 U.S. warehouse club operator, said it is limiting sales of Jasmine, Basmati and long grain white rice "due to recent supply and demand trends."
U.S. rice futures hitting an all-time high Wednesday on worries about supply shortages.
On Tuesday, Costco Wholesale Corp (COST.O: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=COST.O), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=COST.O), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=COST.O)), the largest U.S. warehouse club operator, said it has seen increased demand for items like rice and flour as customers, worried about global food shortages and rising prices, stock up.
Sam's Club, the No. 2 U.S. warehouse club operator, is limiting sales of the 20-pound (9 kg), bulk bags of rice to four bags per customer per visit, and is working with suppliers to ensure the products remain in stock.
Warehouse clubs cater to individual shoppers as well as small businesses and restaurant owners looking to buy cheaper, bulk goods.
With prices for basic food items surging, customers have been going to the clubs to try to save money on bulk sizes of everything from pasta to cooking oil and rice.



You can read the whole article by



click here (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2323679120080423)

From what I heard on the CBS evening news its not really their is a shortage of rice...it the price has sky rocketed...and people are panicking and hoarding it...and this is why Sam's starts putting limits on how much people could buy at once. Not that they couldn't get the rice, but to try to stop this panic buying and hoarding...that alone will drive up the prices even further. Now that isn't to say in some places there isn't a food shortage...people have been starving to death for many, many years...now more are because they cannot afford to buy the food they need. :( Even in that news article you posted it says Sams is just limited their large bags of rice sold to restaurant...doesn't say to individuals though.

Sam's Club said the large-sized bags of rice subject to the limits are typically purchased by its restaurant owner or food service customers.

Sam's Club said is not limiting sales of flour or cooking oil at this time. Costco said some of its stores have put limits on sales of items such as rice and flour, but it was trying to modify those restrictions to meet customer demand.

Costco Chief Executive James Sinegal told Reuters that he believed the recent surge in demand was being driven by media reports about rising global demand and shortages of basic food items in some countries.

Food costs have soared worldwide, spurred by increased demand in emerging markets like China and India; competition with biofuels; high oil prices and market speculation.

I can't put a direct link to the CBS news story on here (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/eveningnews/main3420.shtml) but go to their site here and scroll down a bit and find the video titled: Rice Rationed Nationwide.

The problem is for man Asia countries and others, rice is their main dish and they can't afford it...it sounds like to me the people selling the rich are jacking up the prices to make a huge profit...not because their is an actual shortage of rice going on. These news articles can be difficult to understand sometimes because they implies alot, yet their own facts say other things...:rolleyes:

God bless

Brother Mark
Apr 24th 2008, 02:36 AM
From what I heard on the CBS evening news its not really their is a shortage of rice...it the price has sky rocketed...and people are panicking and hoarding it...and this is why Sam's starts putting limits on how much people could buy at once. Not that they couldn't get the rice, but to try to stop this panic buying and hoarding...that alone will drive up the prices even further. Now that isn't to say in some places there isn't a food shortage...people have been starving to death for many, many years...now more are because they cannot afford to buy the food they need. :( Even in that news article you posted it says Sams is just limited their large bags of rice sold to restaurant...doesn't say to individuals though.

Sam's Club said the large-sized bags of rice subject to the limits are typically purchased by its restaurant owner or food service customers.

Sam's Club said is not limiting sales of flour or cooking oil at this time. Costco said some of its stores have put limits on sales of items such as rice and flour, but it was trying to modify those restrictions to meet customer demand.

Costco Chief Executive James Sinegal told Reuters that he believed the recent surge in demand was being driven by media reports about rising global demand and shortages of basic food items in some countries.

Food costs have soared worldwide, spurred by increased demand in emerging markets like China and India; competition with biofuels; high oil prices and market speculation.

I can't put a direct link to the CBS news story on here (http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/eveningnews/main3420.shtml) but go to their site here and scroll down a bit and find the video titled: Rice Rationed Nationwide.

The problem is for man Asia countries and others, rice is their main dish and they can't afford it...it sounds like to me the people selling the rich are jacking up the prices to make a huge profit...not because their is an actual shortage of rice going on. These news articles can be difficult to understand sometimes because they implies alot, yet their own facts say other things...:rolleyes:

God bless

That's partly true. Why is the price going up? Because the world is consuming more than it is producing. Supply and demand is getting out of whack. The Philipines has had rice orders unfulfilled for several months in a row now. They have recently passed a law against any exporting of rice.

You are correct that a run on rice is happening in the US now more because of price. However, the amount of rice that's available compared to demand is way different than it has been. The world is not producing as much grain as it is consuming at the moment.

moonglow
Apr 24th 2008, 02:54 AM
That's partly true. Why is the price going up? Because the world is consuming more than it is producing. Supply and demand is getting out of whack. The Philipines has had rice orders unfulfilled for several months in a row now. They have recently passed a law against any exporting of rice.

You are correct that a run on rice is happening in the US now more because of price. However, the amount of rice that's available compared to demand is way different than it has been. The world is not producing as much grain as it is consuming at the moment.

So far I don't see them actually saying that though...saying demand is up...but not saying there really is a shortage...its just the price has gone up and people's can't afford it (along with the price of other foods too). At least that is my understanding of what is going on.

That news article even says this: U.S. rice futures hitting an all-time high Wednesday on worries about supply shortages.

Costco Chief Executive James Sinegal told Reuters that he believed the recent surge in demand was being driven by media reports about rising global demand and shortages of basic food items in some countries.

People hoarding it will make things worse though...make the prices go higher and could cause a real shortage if they keep it up. That video on the CBS news showed people putting huge bags of rice in their shopping carts, cramming in as much as they could...that just is going to make things worse. I feel sorry for those who's main diet is rice...they are going to have to find something else to eat IF they can afford it that is...:( I remember (barely) when we had the gas shortage scare and everyone ran to the gas stations to fill up...well of course that triggered the higher gas prices because the demand suddenly sky rocketed. There was no gas shortage though...but everyone panicked and did cause gas station to close down due to running out of gas because the demand suddenly went so high....:rolleyes:

It took awhile to get things straightened out but in the end the gas stations got refilled and the gas prices went down once people kept from rushing them. (wish that would work now and the gas prices would go down) I just hope they don't start doing this with potatoes and think there is a shortage of those...

God bless

Brother Mark
Apr 24th 2008, 03:06 AM
Here's an article that discusses how the world is now consuming more food than it is producing.

Click here (http://www.newsweek.com/id/132013)

Here's another one that shows the falling grain stocks started happening 2 years ago. By falling I don't mean less gross grains, but instead, less amount of grain per person is available. Drought has hit many places that farm, including the US.

Click here (http://www.earthpolicy.org/Indicators/Grain/2006.htm)

Someone out there is saying that the amount of grain available per person is going down. It's about more than just prices at this point. The drought in Australia is playing a roll as well.

moonglow
Apr 24th 2008, 03:14 AM
Ok thanks...I will have to read them tomorrow..need to get some sleep now.

Yea its confusing (at least to me) because they mention several countries that are eating more meat then ever before so the there is more of a demand for grain for the livestock! Which is what daughter was talking about...how so much grain goes for this livestock instead of people...that just seems pretty backwards to me. They need to decide WHO needs to be fed? I mean if people are dying (which they are) and its due to livestock being fed over them, then that is just wrong.

When we went to the store yesterday I got a bunch of vegetable seeds to plant. Nate's been bugging me for years to try to plant a big garden again. I haven't because the last time I did we had three weeks of over a hundred degree heat that fried my garden. :( No matter how much I watered them, the heat just did them in. Not to mention the garden being invaded by some giant caterpillars with huge stinkers on them...never did find out what those were.

Anyway he is going to help me with it and I am sure (providing the weather doesn't do them in) will we have plenty to share with family and friends too. Thanks for your help in explaining this better for me!

God bless

Brother Mark
Apr 24th 2008, 03:21 AM
Ok thanks...I will have to read them tomorrow..need to get some sleep now.

Yea, me too.


Yea its confusing (at least to me) because they mention several countries that are eating more meat then ever before so the there is more of a demand for grain for the livestock! Which is what daughter was talking about...how so much grain goes for this livestock instead of people...that just seems pretty backwards to me. They need to decide WHO needs to be fed? I mean if people are dying (which they are) and its due to livestock being fed over them, then that is just wrong.

Well, what if your family's well being depended on that livestock? It's not so simple as that. The farmer is just buying what he needs to run his business so he can feed his family. That is part of the reason for the increase in food prices though. As China and India have moved from third world to first world, they have gotten richer. In so doing, they eat more meat. More meat requires more cattle. More cattle requires more grain. The grain used to grow 1 pound of meat would feed far more people than the 1 pound of meat it produces will feed. Having said that, meat is a good form of nutrition. Still, the problem is not so easily blamed on those feeding their cattle. Nor can it be so easily blamed on those eating meat. But if one were to blame those raising cattle, then by default all those that eat meat should fall under the same condemnation.


When we went to the store yesterday I got a bunch of vegetable seeds to plant. Nate's been bugging me for years to try to plant a big garden again. I haven't because the last time I did we had three weeks of over a hundred degree heat that fried my garden. :( No matter how much I watered them, the heat just did them in. Not to mention the garden being invaded by some giant caterpillars with huge stinkers on them...never did find out what those were.

Anyway he is going to help me with it and I am sure (providing the weather doesn't do them in) will we have plenty to share with family and friends too. Thanks for your help in explaining this better for me!

God bless

I hope your gardens do well. It is an interesting topic to discuss. How about this interesting verse...

Rev 6:6
6 And I heard as it were a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine."
NASB

When I read that verse, the oil and wine seems interesting. But at face value, it appears to me that the rich will be oppressing the poor.

If something can't be done about the grain supply, it may be time for us all to reduce our intake of meat. That would help some. But what about ethanol? Much grain that would have been planted for food may now be instead planted for ethanol. However, one saving grace... because the price is now high for grains, many lands that have lain fallow for years in the US are now being planted.

daughter
Apr 24th 2008, 09:30 AM
I'm planning on growing veggies too, moonglow. We should start a seperate thread, and pray for a good crop!

Last year all my potatoes rotted in the earth, we had such weird weather. It was dry forever, then suddenly floods.

However, beans, crucifers and salad stuff came up well.

menJesus
Apr 24th 2008, 09:34 AM
I have a question I cannot find the answer to... :rolleyes:

The corn that is being grown for ethanol - is it feed corn or table corn (corn for eating)?

IPet2_9
Apr 24th 2008, 01:24 PM
When I read through the distillation process, my understanding is it isn't even the corn--it's the corn by-products. I require more convincing that it's ethanol driving up food prices. I think it's the monopoly, pure-and-simple. Just like oil. The ethanol thing is just smoke-and-mirrors (the same way Katrina was the scapegoat when gas prices spiked..and never dropped back...).

Brother Mark
Apr 24th 2008, 01:28 PM
I have a question I cannot find the answer to... :rolleyes:

The corn that is being grown for ethanol - is it feed corn or table corn (corn for eating)?

Probably feed corn but I am not sure. But how does a farmer decide what kind of corn to grow? He will grow the corn that gives him the most money for the work he is doing.

Brother Mark
Apr 24th 2008, 01:34 PM
When I read through the distillation process, my understanding is it isn't even the corn--it's the corn by-products. I require more convincing that it's ethanol driving up food prices. I think it's the monopoly, pure-and-simple. Just like oil. The ethanol thing is just smoke-and-mirrors (the same way Katrina was the scapegoat when gas prices spiked..and never dropped back...).

Katrina is a side note. But many refineries were destroyed in that storm and are not back online. Add to that China and India, and it makes perfect economic sense why gasoline is still high today. It's not a smoke and mirrors thing. It's an economics thing.

The deal with ethanol is interesting. It is impacting prices. However, because prices are so high, new production is being added in this country. Land that has lain fallow for years because of it's limited ability to produce grain, is now in production. Still, ethanol demand has increased demand for grain. Any increase in demand will impact prices without an increase in supply. Supply is increasing in this country but not in the world. Australia is in the midst of a severe drought. That has cut their supply down. Ethanol is playing a role if for no other reason than increased demand. But we cannot ignore the supply side either.

In our global economy, what happens across the world now impacts us. Because China and India are now richer, the demand for goods that industrial nations require is greater and therefor increasing in price. I suspect the three biggest reasons for food price increases are 1) China and India food habits changing as they become richer causing an increase in demand. 2) World production of food is not able to keep pace with the increased demand. 3) The cost of products needed to grow food are now increasing at an alarming rate (i.e. gasoline, fertilizer, etc.)

moonglow
Apr 24th 2008, 01:51 PM
Here's an article that discusses how the world is now consuming more food than it is producing.

Click here (http://www.newsweek.com/id/132013)

Here's another one that shows the falling grain stocks started happening 2 years ago. By falling I don't mean less gross grains, but instead, less amount of grain per person is available. Drought has hit many places that farm, including the US.

Click here (http://www.earthpolicy.org/Indicators/Grain/2006.htm)

Someone out there is saying that the amount of grain available per person is going down. It's about more than just prices at this point. The drought in Australia is playing a roll as well.

Great articles...thanks. Helps me understand things better.


Originally Posted by IPet2_9
When I read through the distillation process, my understanding is it isn't even the corn--it's the corn by-products. I require more convincing that it's ethanol driving up food prices. I think it's the monopoly, pure-and-simple. Just like oil. The ethanol thing is just smoke-and-mirrors (the same way Katrina was the scapegoat when gas prices spiked..and never dropped back...)


This is from the first link that Brother Mark posted:

So the people here in the United States who are putting corn-fed stoves in their homes or running cars on ethanol—perhaps thinking they're saving the planet, preventing global warming and so forth—are they in fact contributing to global hunger?

Right now I have a concern about the actual amount of food available for food supplies. And use of food as a fuel source is helping drive up prices and putting people in the hunger category.


daughter I'm planning on growing veggies too, moonglow. We should start a seperate thread, and pray for a good crop!

Last year all my potatoes rotted in the earth, we had such weird weather. It was dry forever, then suddenly floods.

However, beans, crucifers and salad stuff came up well.

Yea we ought too. I want to burrow my mom's small rototiller because tearing out the grass and weeds to clean up an area for a garden is more then either Nate or I could do by hand...especially with my bad back. I was hoping we could get it this weekend, but the weather might not be good...alot of chances for rain, so we will have to see. The problem with gardens is its not until the end of the summer before we start getting anything...so that is months of just waiting for things to grow...:rolleyes: I can freeze the corn and some of the other things, but how to keep lettuce or tomatoes? :hmm: Its like once things start coming in...you get too much and can't eat it all..then it goes bad....and I know nothing about canning...ugh. I never heard of anyone canning lettuce either...:lol:

But yea, lets start a separate thread on this so we don't derail this topic.

God bless

threebigrocks
Apr 24th 2008, 02:16 PM
At this point in time, we try to fix one disaster and we are walking into another. We repeat that pattern - and it become a tighter spiral. To the ethanol issue, that will impact greatly our water supply. The water usage necessary is insane to produce ethonal from corn, and then the stuff left is run back into the ground. Sure, it burns cleaner and whatnot but it reduces the miles per gallon we can get out of a tank of fuel. Hence, we need more fuel than we did before.

Brother Mark
Apr 24th 2008, 02:17 PM
There are also questions regarding the amount of oil needed to develop ethanol. By the time one considers the oil needed for fertilizer, fuel for tractors, the amount of fuel needed for the process itself, etc.... some say the amount of fuel consumed through the entire process is greater than the amount of fuel provided.

moonglow
Apr 24th 2008, 02:51 PM
There are also questions regarding the amount of oil needed to develop ethanol. By the time one considers the oil needed for fertilizer, fuel for tractors, the amount of fuel needed for the process itself, etc.... some say the amount of fuel consumed through the entire process is greater than the amount of fuel provided.

I have seen these guys converting their engines to use old frying oil they get from fast food restaurants. Its already been used, so not new cooking oil. They drive around smelling like french fries...:lol: I think they said it takes about a thousands dollars to covert their car engines too this but get the oil nearly free. Would that be a way to go or not?

God bless

Grace40
Apr 24th 2008, 03:14 PM
With obesety killing America it might not be a bad thing. :hmm:

IPet2_9
Apr 24th 2008, 03:50 PM
With obesety killing America it might not be a bad thing.

I thought the same thing. Revelation says, "a quart of barley for a day's wages, but leave the oil and the wine untouched." In other words, while people are starving, allow the revelry in the middle of the night to continue. Sadly, I think that revelry is us.

threebigrocks
Apr 24th 2008, 03:58 PM
I thought the same thing. Revelation says, "a quart of barley for a day's wages, but leave the oil and the wine untouched." In other words, while people are starving, allow the revelry in the middle of the night to continue. Sadly, I think that revelry is us.

1 Corinthians 15


31I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE. 33Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals."


1 Thessolonians 5



2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
3While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5for you are all sons of light and sons of day We are not of night nor of darkness;
6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
7For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.

moonglow
Apr 24th 2008, 04:26 PM
With obesety killing America it might not be a bad thing. :hmm:

Only if their is a shortage on junk food which I think would probably be the last thing to go..:(

God bless

daughter
Apr 24th 2008, 05:23 PM
I have seen these guys converting their engines to use old frying oil they get from fast food restaurants. Its already been used, so not new cooking oil. They drive around smelling like french fries...:lol: I think they said it takes about a thousands dollars to covert their car engines too this but get the oil nearly free. Would that be a way to go or not?

God bless
Friends of mine do that. The UK is bringing in taxes on it, so that it will cost as much as regular petrol.

Today I read in the paper that sales of rice and flour are being rationed in the UK so that the shops won't run out.

Brother Mark
Apr 25th 2008, 01:18 AM
I have seen these guys converting their engines to use old frying oil they get from fast food restaurants. Its already been used, so not new cooking oil. They drive around smelling like french fries...:lol: I think they said it takes about a thousands dollars to covert their car engines too this but get the oil nearly free. Would that be a way to go or not?

God bless

Yea, that's what's called biodiesel. It's different from ethanol. I think it is a viable alternative.

The world economy is going to be interesting to watch over the coming years. Things are changing drastically.

cheech
Apr 25th 2008, 07:36 PM
I have seen these guys converting their engines to use old frying oil they get from fast food restaurants. Its already been used, so not new cooking oil. They drive around smelling like french fries...:lol: I think they said it takes about a thousands dollars to covert their car engines too this but get the oil nearly free. Would that be a way to go or not?

God bless

Can you imagine the fast foodaholics following these cars around just for the smell! :lol: I'd probably follow them all over town! (although we don't eat fast food hardly at all but love the smell :D)

threebigrocks
Apr 25th 2008, 07:55 PM
Heard on the news last night that Costco is also limiting rice and flour.

daughter
Apr 25th 2008, 08:49 PM
My friend has just taken me shopping to buy a bunch of staples. It's not that I think we're going to run out of rice etc in the UK - it's just that if the prices go up as much over the next couple of months as they did over the last couple of months, I won't be able to afford it. I'm on a low income, and while the cost of certain basic food stuffs has doubled, my income has remained the same. Thought it would be an idea to get a bunch of stock store cupboard things in while I can still afford them! I know I can grow a lot of my own stuff, but still...

JenniferBerry
Apr 25th 2008, 09:12 PM
I just went to Wal-Mart the other day and a 10lb bag of flour was $9.something and a 5lb bag of sugar was $3.20.

Brother Mark
Apr 25th 2008, 09:22 PM
I just went to Wal-Mart the other day and a 10lb bag of flour was $9.something and a 5lb bag of sugar was $3.20.

Sugar is artificially high. We protect our sugar farmers way too much. Flour is going higher because of world wide demand and supply are out of kilter.

JenniferBerry
Apr 25th 2008, 09:35 PM
Sugar is artificially high. We protect our sugar farmers way too much. Flour is going higher because of world wide demand and supply are out of kilter.
Well I guess the good thing is I will be eating less flour and sugar so I won't be spending so much on diet plans and that will make up for the $100 a week in gas I am using. :lol:

IPet2_9
Apr 25th 2008, 09:39 PM
Friends of mine do that. The UK is bringing in taxes on it, so that it will cost as much as regular petrol.

If that doesn't scream "hidden agenda", I don't know what does.

ProjectPeter
Apr 26th 2008, 12:44 AM
My friend has just taken me shopping to buy a bunch of staples. It's not that I think we're going to run out of rice etc in the UK - it's just that if the prices go up as much over the next couple of months as they did over the last couple of months, I won't be able to afford it. I'm on a low income, and while the cost of certain basic food stuffs has doubled, my income has remained the same. Thought it would be an idea to get a bunch of stock store cupboard things in while I can still afford them! I know I can grow a lot of my own stuff, but still...
That is the point though daughter and you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I could care less if a bunch of rich folk were hording stuff and artificially driving up prices or if there is a scare because of the whacky media or if there is an actual shortage. Point is... THERE COMES A POINT IN TIME (regardless of why) when it can't be afforded period. So we can all go on and on and on with the "why it is happening" and none of that matters when it gets down to the dollars and cents. There is just so much I can afford.

ProjectPeter
Apr 26th 2008, 12:45 AM
Heard on the news last night that Costco is also limiting rice and flour.
They did it here in Atlanta as well. Done deal. Conspiracy theories... shortages... none of that matters. Reality says what it says and folks need pay attention!

MrAnteater
Apr 26th 2008, 03:54 AM
I think it's time to introduce some actual facts into the discussion:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080425/twl-uk-food-rice-d9706c2.html

Note the section titled SPECULATIVE BUYING:

"On the Chicago Board of Trade, financial speculators looking for the next big commodity play, have helped lift prices by about 80 percent this year to successive record highs."

The thing everyone is forgetting (or don't want to see) is these food prices are set as part of the commodity market trading. Inventories are only one part of the equation. Like I was saying before, raw materials is the new hot investment market.

All these gloom and doom predictions shouldn't change the way we Christians should be living our life one bit. People have failed to predict the beginning of the end for centuries. I'll keep growing in God's word, serving where I can, and try to bring others to faith until he calls us all into the kingdom. I'll be happy to be called home at any time and won't bother myself with needless worry as presented in these alarmist food stories:

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
Matthew 6:25-27

Brother Mark
Apr 26th 2008, 04:10 AM
I think it's time to introduce some actual facts into the discussion:

No more suggestions that others are not speaking factually. Plenty of facts have been entered into the thread already.



http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080425/twl-uk-food-rice-d9706c2.html (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080425/twl-uk-food-rice-d9706c2.html)

Note the section titled SPECULATIVE BUYING:

"On the Chicago Board of Trade, financial speculators looking for the next big commodity play, have helped lift prices by about 80 percent this year to successive record highs."

The thing everyone is forgetting (or don't want to see) is these food prices are set as part of the commodity market trading. Inventories are only one part of the equation. Like I was saying before, raw materials is the new hot investment market.

All these gloom and doom predictions shouldn't change the way we Christians should be living our life one bit. People have failed to predict the beginning of the end for centuries. I'll keep growing in God's word, serving where I can, and try to bring others to faith until he calls us all into the kingdom. I'll be happy to be called home at any time and won't bother myself with needless worry as presented in these alarmist food stories:

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
Matthew 6:25-27


Speculative buying is only part of the issue. The price rise has been going on for over a year now. There isn't a "real" shortage yet in the US, but there is definitely a shortage in the world for grain and rice. It is now illegal to export rice in the Phillipines because they have been unable to buy all the rice they need on the world market. It's more than speculation. The world is now consuming more food than it is producing. Thankfully, that hasn't been the case for long and we have stocks built up. I am confident it will correct itself as some of it is related to market conditions but some of it is related to weather.

Oh, one reason commodities are a hot issue these days... increased demand. Commodities are only good investments when supply is stretched by demand. Without an slight imbalance towards demand in commodities, they tend to be very cheap. Once demand starts stretching supply, they tend to be very expensive. That's one reason futures were introduced... to try and help stabilizing prices. Unfortunately, speculators have helped to disrupt the stability of the markets as you have pointed out. But it's not happening in a vacuum. The speculators see what is going on and are trying to take advantage. Some companies and countries, aware of the shortages, are also trying to make sure they get the grains they need to continue doing business.

ProjectPeter
Apr 26th 2008, 12:59 PM
And again though... it doesn't matter "HOW" this is all happening. Fact is... it is happening. And folks are focusing on rice and flour etc... Go to your local grocery store and look and remember. I am one of those folk who like to make a dollar squeal. Always have been that way when it comes to groceries. I have been the one that has done the grocery shopping in my home for as long as I can remember. I was giving an example yesterday of the price difference in an item. I enjoy the Bush Homestlyle Baked Beans. We have eaten them for years now because I just plain like the things. When I left Minesota and came back to Georgia (15 months ago) I was paying 98 cents a can at Wally World (cheapest place to buy them consistently). That same can of beans today... it is 1.68 a can. Do the math... you are talking a MONSTER percentage increase in barely over a year. That has nothing to do with the shortage of beans or the sauce they put in them. Gas has a lot to do with the increase I figure... but even that isn't the only reason I am sure. But reality hits... in just a bit over a year those prices are almost double. It isn't just the beans... it is most things.

Gas... insane. I don't care if it is just the oil folks being a pain... shortage... EPA mess driving up the cost... Chaves blowing his pie hole open and causing the market to flinch... whatever. None of that matters a lick in the grand scheme of things. What matters is when I go to the pump to get gas because we need it to get where we need to be.... It is costing me a lot more money to do that now than it was a year ago and a year ago it was hurting a bit. How much higher can it go before it has gone to high for us to continue... I dare say not much more.

Brother Mark
Apr 26th 2008, 01:26 PM
And again though... it doesn't matter "HOW" this is all happening.

It only matters in this one sense... can it be corrected?


Fact is... it is happening. And folks are focusing on rice and flour etc... Go to your local grocery store and look and remember.

No doubt, the price hike is very serious, especially over the last 12 months.

ProjectPeter
Apr 26th 2008, 02:02 PM
It only matters in this one sense... can it be corrected?



No doubt, the price hike is very serious, especially over the last 12 months.
How many times have you seen it over the years Mark... stuff gets "corrected" but in the end... it never did get back down to where it once was? Once it goes up... take those beans for example. Gas might come down a little more and they might "correct" the price from 1.68 to 1.50... maybe even 1.40. But compared to 98 cents a year ago... that is still a monster increase. So no... there might be a partial correction but it will never correct itself totally. Never really does and that's been going on since I can remember.

Here is what will always see a true correction. Televisions, computers, toys, washing machines and dryers, tools, sewing machines, textiles, etc. Stuff that you don't need to continue living. Sure... those things make it easy or nice but none of it is necessary. Necessary stuff... it won't correct. But because they keep the overall inflation numbers down with the decreases in these non-necessary items... they can paint a rosier picture.

Brother Mark
Apr 26th 2008, 02:22 PM
How many times have you seen it over the years Mark... stuff gets "corrected" but in the end... it never did get back down to where it once was? Once it goes up... take those beans for example. Gas might come down a little more and they might "correct" the price from 1.68 to 1.50... maybe even 1.40. But compared to 98 cents a year ago... that is still a monster increase. So no... there might be a partial correction but it will never correct itself totally. Never really does and that's been going on since I can remember.

Here is what will always see a true correction. Televisions, computers, toys, washing machines and dryers, tools, sewing machines, textiles, etc. Stuff that you don't need to continue living. Sure... those things make it easy or nice but none of it is necessary. Necessary stuff... it won't correct. But because they keep the overall inflation numbers down with the decreases in these non-necessary items... they can paint a rosier picture.

The era of cheap oil is over. We saw some price corrections in the 80s that went from extra high to very low in the price of oil. But the reasons for the price hike were artificial. The reasons for the hike now are not artificial and that is why the price keeps going higher and higher without a full retracement of price. When one looks at inflation adjusted price for oil, it is only recently getting back up to the prices it was in the 70s and 80s. Now it has far exceeded those inflation adjusted prices.

Oil and food are tied at the hip. They will march hand in hand for a while.

PP, I am not saying this isn't a spiritual thing! Not in the least. I am just pointing out some economic issues that are going on. In the early 80s, oil was going to come down as soon as the suppliers got hungry. That had to happen. However, the price of food and oil today, are not near as likely to come down as they were back then. We saw oil at 10 to 16 dollars a barrel for years. It was so cheap, many wells in the US closed because it cost us more to pump the oil out of the ground that it could be sold for. Oil was very undervalued for a long, long time because of how the suppliers handled themselves in the 70's and 80s. It was a hard lesson for them to learn. Now the lesson will probably be learned by those of us on the demand side.

As you have repeatedly said in this thread, it is what it is. Famine or shortages are exactly that regardless of the reasons behind it. Irishmen starved to death during the potato famine. It didn't matter that Ireland was still exporting potatoes during that time. The fact was, to the common man, famine had arrived. Blight was an issue, but there were potatoes to be had. Unfortunately, some of them were sold to those that could buy from elsewhere. Your point is valid. Shortages are shortages regardless of the cause.

ProjectPeter
Apr 26th 2008, 02:55 PM
The era of cheap oil is over. We saw some price corrections in the 80s that went from extra high to very low in the price of oil. But the reasons for the price hike were artificial. The reasons for the hike now are not artificial and that is why the price keeps going higher and higher without a full retracement of price. When one looks at inflation adjusted price for oil, it is only recently getting back up to the prices it was in the 70s and 80s. Now it has far exceeded those inflation adjusted prices.

Oil and food are tied at the hip. They will march hand in hand for a while.

PP, I am not saying this isn't a spiritual thing! Not in the least. I am just pointing out some economic issues that are going on. In the early 80s, oil was going to come down as soon as the suppliers got hungry. That had to happen. However, the price of food and oil today, are not near as likely to come down as they were back then. We saw oil at 10 to 16 dollars a barrel for years. It was so cheap, many wells in the US closed because it cost us more to pump the oil out of the ground that it could be sold for. Oil was very undervalued for a long, long time because of how the suppliers handled themselves in the 70's and 80s. It was a hard lesson for them to learn. Now the lesson will probably be learned by those of us on the demand side.

As you have repeatedly said in this thread, it is what it is. Famine or shortages are exactly that regardless of the reasons behind it. Irishmen starved to death during the potato famine. It didn't matter that Ireland was still exporting potatoes during that time. The fact was, to the common man, famine had arrived. Blight was an issue, but there were potatoes to be had. Unfortunately, some of them were sold to those that could buy from elsewhere. Your point is valid. Shortages are shortages regardless of the cause.
That is ultimately the way it works and like I said in the grand scheme of things... that reality is what matters. There could be hundreds of reasons for most anything out there going up. I don't pretend to know all the whys. What I do know though... it is starting to sting pretty sharply now. The increase is not just small today... it is getting much larger. Do I think it all because of shortage? Goodness know... didn't fall of the turnip truck just yesterday. They will all holler "supply and demand" because that is the downside of capitalism... folks get greedy and the common man pays the worst price for it. But where does that leave us as a church?

Here is my point now and always will be. Personally, I do believe that time is pretty near run out for the world as we know it. Personally, I believe with everything in me that we are all going to find out very soon whether it is really pre-trib, post-trib, or mid-trib, because I see it coming very soon. But even if it continues on for some time still... it is going to get even more difficult than the year before. If for no other reason than the fact we are having to feed more and more folks and land to farm is shrinking more and more because you have to house those more and more folks. Folks are still birthing babies and old folk are living longer and all in all... the need for food is out-pacing the growing of it. Then add to all of that... we are using so much of the resource to come up with alternate fuel... etc. It is a recipe for disaster in many ways. We can go on and on about how we're going to trust God to take care of us when it all hits the fan... but then we can look to Scripture to see many places where God let folks know this time was coming and told them to prepare. To not prepare... not just for us but those who will need our help... I just think that a very poor, and maybe even fatal, option.

Brother Mark
Apr 26th 2008, 02:58 PM
Here is my point now and always will be. Personally, I do believe that time is pretty near run out for the world as we know it. Personally, I believe with everything in me that we are all going to find out very soon whether it is really pre-trib, post-trib, or mid-trib, because I see it coming very soon. But even if it continues on for some time still... it is going to get even more difficult than the year before. If for no other reason than the fact we are having to feed more and more folks and land to farm is shrinking more and more because you have to house those more and more folks. Folks are still birthing babies and old folk are living longer and all in all... the need for food is out-pacing the growing of it. Then add to all of that... we are using so much of the resource to come up with alternate fuel... etc. It is a recipe for disaster in many ways. We can go on and on about how we're going to trust God to take care of us when it all hits the fan... but then we can look to Scripture to see many places where God let folks know this time was coming and told them to prepare. To not prepare... not just for us but those who will need our help... I just think that a very poor, and maybe even fatal, option.


That paragraph was worth repeating so I figured I would paste it again. ;)

moonglow
Apr 26th 2008, 04:06 PM
Can you imagine the fast foodaholics following these cars around just for the smell! :lol: I'd probably follow them all over town! (although we don't eat fast food hardly at all but love the smell :D)

Yea, me too! :lol::lol:

I wish someone would come covert my car engine to this! :cool: I pour my leftover cooking oil into containers that eventually end up in the trash...here I am throwing away possibly fuel for my car! If I could find out how to do this, (which searching the net I probably could) but I don't have an extra thousand dollars to buy all the stuff needed...:B

By the way...a couple of years ago on the CBS world news they showed a guy that invented a way to take common trash and change it into oil! They showed him doing it too...took a few hours, rather then waiting thousand of years for nature to do it. Of course this never came to be a common thing because it would put the oil businesses out of business. But sometimes I wonder...I mean I think God gave us all the resources we need for all our needs...if we could do this, not only would gas become extremely cheap, we wouldn't have these major trash dumps! It would solve two problems at once! But because of the greed of people...that is a wall we have always been up against. Even David complained alot about the rich oppressing the poor in the OT. :(

God bless

Saved7
Apr 26th 2008, 08:12 PM
Food Rationing Confronts Breadbasket of the World

By JOSH GERSTEIN (http://www2.nysun.com/authors/Josh+Gerstein)
Staff Reporter of the Sun
April 21, 2008

MOUNTAIN VIEW (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Mountain+View), Calif. (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=California) — Many parts of America (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=United+States), long considered the breadbasket of the world, are now confronting a once unthinkable phenomenon: food rationing. Major retailers in New York, in areas of New England (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=New+England+States), and on the West Coast are limiting purchases of flour, rice, and cooking oil as demand outstrips supply. There are also anecdotal reports that some consumers are hoarding grain stocks.
At a Costco (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Costco+Wholesale+Corporat ion) Warehouse in Mountain View, Calif. (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Mountain+View+%28Californ ia%29), yesterday, shoppers grew frustrated and occasionally uttered expletives as they searched in vain for the large sacks of rice they usually buy.
"Where's the rice?" an engineer from Palo Alto (http://www2.nysun.com/related_results.php?term=Palo+Alto), Calif., Yajun Liu, said. "You should be able to buy something like rice. This is ridiculous."
The bustling store in the heart of Silicon Valley usually sells four or five varieties of rice to a clientele largely of Asian immigrants, but only about half a pallet of Indian-grown Basmati rice was left in stock. A 20-pound bag was selling for $15.99.
"You can't eat this every day. It's too heavy," a health care executive from Palo Alto, Sharad Patel, grumbled as his son loaded two sacks of the Basmati into a shopping cart. "We only need one bag but I'm getting two in case a neighbor or a friend needs it," the elder man said.



Here's the link to the rest of the article...


click here (http://www2.nysun.com/article/74994)

hmph, well I don't know about you all...but I have been saving the beans from the green bean plants I grow, and saving the seeds from the green peppers when i buy them, and so on. Best to have a garden if you can, even if you have planters on your balcony. It's better than nothing.:saint:
And I say...the heck with cars!!! Buy horses!!! :D

Kingsdaughter
Apr 27th 2008, 07:16 AM
I do believe that time is pretty near run out for the world as we know it. Personally, I believe with everything in me that we are all going to find out very soon whether it is really pre-trib, post-trib, or mid-trib, because I see it coming very soon. But even if it continues on for some time still... it is going to get even more difficult than the year before.

I believe that too and if God is willing, then I'm going to stock our pantry next week. I just wish I could stock up on milk, eggs, and bread...but the Lord knows I can't and He will take of that for me. Come Lord Jesus!!!!:pp:pp:pp

ProjectPeter
Apr 27th 2008, 11:59 AM
I believe that too and if God is willing, then I'm going to stock our pantry next week. I just wish I could stock up on milk, eggs, and bread...but the Lord knows I can't and He will take of that for me. Come Lord Jesus!!!!:pp:pp:pp
Sure... there are many things we couldn't store up on. We could store some powdered milk type stuff and whatnot I suppose but on our end... that would get into more money that we would be able to do. I'm of the mind that I will do certain things that will just help along the way. If the Lord decided to start the end game tomorrow... we don't really know what to expect here in the US. We can be certain it is going to get rough but that's about all. It doesn't matter though because no matter what I am able to store up... it is still going to require faith and lots of it.

moonglow
Apr 27th 2008, 04:53 PM
I know this post will seem sort of off topic...but several have commented about things 'heating up'...not in the literal sense...but in things getting bad. Anyway just something to consider:

Reno urged to prepare for more quakes (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/26/reno.quake.ap/index.html)

RENO, Nevada (AP) -- Scientists urged residents of northern Nevada's largest city to prepare for a bigger event as the area continued rumbling Saturday after the largest earthquake in a two-month-long series of temblors.


More than 100 aftershocks were recorded on the western edge of the city after a magnitude-4.7 quake hit Friday night, the strongest quake around Reno since one measuring 5.2 in 1953, said researchers at the seismological laboratory at the University of Nevada, Reno.

The latest quake swept store shelves clean, cracked walls in homes and dislodged rocks on hillsides, but there were no reports of injuries or widespread major damage.

Seismologists said the recent activity is unusual because the quakes started out small and continue to build in strength. The normal pattern is for a main quake followed by smaller aftershocks.

"A magnitude-6 quake wouldn't be a scientific surprise," John Anderson, director of the seismological lab, said Saturday. "We certainly hope residents are taking the threat seriously after last night."

But Anderson stressed that there was no way to predict what would happen and said the sequence of quakes also could end without a major one.

Reno's last major quake measured 6.1 on April 24, 1914, and was felt as far away as Berkeley, California, said Craig dePolo, research geologist with the Nevada Bureau of Mines and Geology.


A rockslide triggered by Friday night's quake was blamed in a 125-foot breach in a wooden flume that carries water to one of two water treatment plants in Reno, a city of about 210,000.

A backup pump was used to divert water to the plant, and the breach was not expected to cause any water shortages, said Aaron Kenneston, Washoe County emergency management officer.

The U.S. Geological Survey said Friday night's quake was centered around Mogul, just west of Reno. The area of upscale homes along the eastern Sierra was rattled by more than 100 quakes the day before, the strongest a magnitude-4.2 that caused high-rise casinos to sway in downtown Reno.

The strongest aftershock measured 3.7 and was recorded after noon Saturday.

Mike Lentini of Reno said Friday night's quake felt "like a big truck hit the building" and awakened his family.

"It's the unknown. It's shaking, and when's it going to stop?" he said Saturday. "And when stuff starts falling off the shelves, it's a whole other ballgame."

Jars of mayonnaise and bottles of ketchup and shampoo fell from shelves at a Wal-Mart store in northwest Reno. Overhead televisions swayed at a sports bar in Sparks, 11 miles east, where bartender Shawn Jones said the rumble was significantly stronger than Thursday's event.

"The bottles were shaking, so I sent everybody outside," he said.

Hundreds of mostly minor quakes have occurred along one or possibly more faults since the sequence began February 28, said Ken Smith, a seismologist at the Reno laboratory. The quakes have occurred along an area about 2 miles long and a half-mile wide.

"We can't put a number on it, but the probability of a major earthquake has increased with this sequence," Smith said Saturday. "People need to prepare for ground shaking, because there's no way to say how this will play out."

Among other things, scientists urged residents to stock up on water and food, to learn how to turn off water and gas, and to strap down bookshelves, televisions and computers.

"It's getting a little bit frightening," resident Daryl DiBitonto told the Reno Gazette-Journal. "I'm very concerned about this increase in not only activity but also in magnitude."

So apparently this has been going on for two months! And they keep getting worse..instead of one big one then smaller after shocks...its reverse...small ones getting worse. Weird. Anyway this is the first I have heard about this going on.

God bless

cheech
Apr 27th 2008, 05:02 PM
It never hurts to prepare even just a bit. We are use to not eating big meals and as much as I hate to live without my chicken...it could be done if need be, but sometimes even going without for a bit and learning to appreciate the things you do have (in this case, food) is a lesson unto itself. Who knows...maybe this is what's suppose to be done...learn to appreciate what God has given us. Learn to depend on him for all things and not be anxious about what could come or what is to come. God will provide. We all have to learn, and should learn, to make adjustments...it's just a good common sense thing to do. You have to admit...our society is spoiled. We (myself included) think nothing of wasting food (not everyone but most people), of buying more than what we need, of spending more than what we have, and not sharing it. Right now to us, not having as much rice is an inconvenience. To other countries it means life or death because that is all they have to eat. Even to some in the U.S. it could mean life or death if all they have is money for rice and not much else (using rice as an example).

Many lessons may come out of all this, but the one to learn is how fortunate we really are to have what we do. We must not waste even a morsel of food (although we all do it) and we must not take for granted what God has provided for us because it could be gone in the blink of an eye, at the drop of a hat.