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Matt 13:44
Apr 21st 2008, 09:21 PM
There are a number of passages which elude to a lie in the Bible. I wonder what this lie is. Does anybody know from these verses?

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie,

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Romans 3:7
For if the truth of God through my lie hath abounded more unto His glory, why am I also yet judged as a sinner?

VerticalReality
Apr 21st 2008, 09:34 PM
The lie is believing that anything other than the Lord Jesus Christ is going to justify us before God.

godsgirl
Apr 21st 2008, 09:36 PM
I believe that "the lie" that those who miss the rapture are sent is the same lie satan told Eve-'you will be as god'--this is evident in the world we live in that satan hasn't thought of a new one-he still sends the same old thing-ask Oprah.

Rullion Green
Apr 21st 2008, 09:54 PM
:)
There are a number of passages which elude to a lie in the Bible. I wonder what this lie is. Does anybody know from these verses?

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie,

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Romans 3:7
For if the truth of God through my lie hath abounded more unto His glory, why am I also yet judged as a sinner?

There is no lie in the Bible i think you may have taken the verses out of context. I'll try to take them one point at a time to see if i can help any:)

As far as i can see The first one Rom1:25 is talking about people who have forsaken God to go after other gods so they have left the truth and gone after lies, i.e false gods.

The Second point is refering to the second coming of the LORD when great signs and wonders will be shown to people and they will be taken in by them because they knew not the truth (Jesus Christ) and be decieved by lies.

the third point is the Apostle Paul talking about jewish people coming in to the early church saying to new believers that they had to be circumcised in order to be saved, Paul is simply saying we are all under sin Jew and Gentile and need the remission of sin (Christ Jesus) who was made a sacrifice for the forgivness of sin.


I hope you can see there is no lie, and scripture can be taken out of context when a verse is simply put forth, it has to be read in the contexts of the chapter and you also have to bear in mind who the writer is, and who he is writing to and what point he is trying to convy to the reader. I have to go now but hope it helped a little if not i'm sure someone will explain it to you better.

Servant89
Apr 21st 2008, 09:57 PM
The lie is right there in the verse, it is a letter to the romans and the only ones called roman today are the catholics. They exchanged the truth of God (that there is only one mediator, 2Tim 2:5) into a lie, and worshiped the creature (the Virgin and the saints) more than the Creator.

Rom 1:25 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The Bible defines the lie as follows:

2Thes 2:8 Then shall the Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause shall God send them a strong dilusion, that they should believe a lie;
12 That they may all be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

With regards to the lie of 2Th 2:11, we must let the Scriptures interpret that for us. Always let the Bible interpret itself. According to the Bible, the Lie is:

a. Veneration of Mary and the saints. The Bible says in Romans 1:25 that the lie is the worship of creatures instead of the Creator. Mary is a creature and the saints are also creatures. In Catholic doctrine, we can not go to God directly because we are unworthy to talk to the Holy One directly. We need to use intermediaries, saints or people that are close to God. Fellowship is broken with God and encouraged with dead people and Mary. People end up seeing the saints and Mary as their friends that protect them from God's wrath. The prayers, fellowship, praise reports and veneration go to the creatures instead of the Creator. Of all the letters Paul wrote, the one to the Romans paints it perfectly (Catholics pay attention, you are the only ones that claim to be Romans today):


b. According to 1TIM 4:1, the lie, a doctrine of demons, is also forbidding the priests, nuns, monks, bishops etc. to marry and to forbid the laity to eat meats on Friday:

1TI 4:1 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking LIES in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

c. According to 1TIM 2:4 the truth is that there is only one mediator. So, the lie is that there are many. The lie is also to use saints and Mary to be mediators to God's people.

1TI 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

d. The lie is to have statues in church for religious purpose, idolatry is the lie according to Isaiah 44:10-20:

ISA 44:10 Who has formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
13 The carpenter stretches out his rule; he marks it out with a line; he fits it with planes, and he marks it out with the compass, and makes it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain
in the house.
15 ...yea, he makes a god, and worships it; he makes it a graven image, and falls down thereto.
17 And the residue thereof he makes a god, even his graven image: he falls down unto it, and worships it, and prays unto it, and says, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
20 He feeds on ashes: a deceived heart has turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a LIE in my right hand?

2The 2 foretells the coming of the satanic messenger that makes fake miracles after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. Note: that word "wonder" in greek is terazin and it adds up to 666. The lying wonder of satan is what Rev 13:13 states, bringing fire from heaven down to earth in the presense of many people. The virgin of Fatima did just that (get the video). Notice that Rev 13:13 is the one that prophecied that and the Virgin of Fatima showed up six times and only on day # 13 of the month.

Now since God is the one that allows and send them the strong dilusion, do not work against God by telling catholics that worship Mary about it, they earned it. Tell them only after they get converted to Christ.

11 And for this cause shall God send them a strong dilusion, that they should believe a lie;
12 That they may all be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If you want to hear more, I have plenty more.

Shalom

mizzdy
Apr 21st 2008, 10:52 PM
Servant89,
It not just the catholics that think about Mary as they do, have you checked out the emergening church? The are in the forefront of Mary worship today. The visions of Mary or apparitions are increasing in number it seems daily. In an article I read intitled Queen of All states from a 'visionary', I guess that is one whom the Virgin Mary has spoken to directly, "Soon, I will be in your midst with a great light. I will enlighten the entire world....in secrecy I will perform miracles on the souls until until the number of the sacrifices has become full." It goes on to say she will be seen by all the denominations and religions of the world. In Puetro Rico they want to construct a statue twice as high as the Statue of Liberty on a land measuing about 500 acres called the Mytiscal city complex because they have so many people visit each year. The statue will be at the top which is about 1500 feet.
Now thats Mary worhsip. Have you read of the emergent church?

Matt 13:44
Apr 21st 2008, 11:38 PM
The lie is right there in the verse, it is a letter to the romans and the only ones called roman today are the catholics. They exchanged the truth of God (that there is only one mediator, 2Tim 2:5) into a lie, and worshiped the creature (the Virgin and the saints) more than the Creator.

Rom 1:25 (http://webnet77.com/cgi-bin/bible/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=45&CHAP=1&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The Bible defines the lie as follows:

2Thes 2:8 Then shall the Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause shall God send them a strong dilusion, that they should believe a lie;
12 That they may all be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

With regards to the lie of 2Th 2:11, we must let the Scriptures interpret that for us. Always let the Bible interpret itself. According to the Bible, the Lie is:

a. Veneration of Mary and the saints. The Bible says in Romans 1:25 that the lie is the worship of creatures instead of the Creator. Mary is a creature and the saints are also creatures. In Catholic doctrine, we can not go to God directly because we are unworthy to talk to the Holy One directly. We need to use intermediaries, saints or people that are close to God. Fellowship is broken with God and encouraged with dead people and Mary. People end up seeing the saints and Mary as their friends that protect them from God's wrath. The prayers, fellowship, praise reports and veneration go to the creatures instead of the Creator. Of all the letters Paul wrote, the one to the Romans paints it perfectly (Catholics pay attention, you are the only ones that claim to be Romans today):


b. According to 1TIM 4:1, the lie, a doctrine of demons, is also forbidding the priests, nuns, monks, bishops etc. to marry and to forbid the laity to eat meats on Friday:

1TI 4:1 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking LIES in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God has created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

c. According to 1TIM 2:4 the truth is that there is only one mediator. So, the lie is that there are many. The lie is also to use saints and Mary to be mediators to God's people.

1TI 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

d. The lie is to have statues in church for religious purpose, idolatry is the lie according to Isaiah 44:10-20:

ISA 44:10 Who has formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
13 The carpenter stretches out his rule; he marks it out with a line; he fits it with planes, and he marks it out with the compass, and makes it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain
in the house.
15 ...yea, he makes a god, and worships it; he makes it a graven image, and falls down thereto.
17 And the residue thereof he makes a god, even his graven image: he falls down unto it, and worships it, and prays unto it, and says, Deliver me; for thou art my god.
20 He feeds on ashes: a deceived heart has turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a LIE in my right hand?

2The 2 foretells the coming of the satanic messenger that makes fake miracles after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. Note: that word "wonder" in greek is terazin and it adds up to 666. The lying wonder of satan is what Rev 13:13 states, bringing fire from heaven down to earth in the presense of many people. The virgin of Fatima did just that (get the video). Notice that Rev 13:13 is the one that prophecied that and the Virgin of Fatima showed up six times and only on day # 13 of the month.

Now since God is the one that allows and send them the strong dilusion, do not work against God by telling catholics that worship Mary about it, they earned it. Tell them only after they get converted to Christ.

11 And for this cause shall God send them a strong dilusion, that they should believe a lie;
12 That they may all be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If you want to hear more, I have plenty more.

Shalom

What I hear you saying is that the lie is worshipping the created rather than the creator...to not worship idols...to not bow down to the graven image. Is that right? Here is something to consider:

There are two kinds of images. The first one we can touch and see with our physical members. The other one is the image words put forth in our minds. If I say the word bike an image is put forth in your mind. You see the image but it is not real or present. When God who is also known as THE WORD sends them a powerful delusion I believe this is how THE WORD does it. We are not to worship the image the words put forth...The word says I am spirit and those who worship me must worship me in spirit and in truth.

John 4:24
God (the Word) is a Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

The lie then in my opinion has to do with the graven image the letter that killeth puts forth in our minds. All the Bible stories, places and characters become idols. If we say the word Jesus what image comes to mind? Hundreds probably.

Notice to who sends us this powerful delusion...it is non other than God himself or The Word of God. He sent his son the Word to judge the world not to bring peace.

I too have more to say but will stop for now. What do you guys think of this? Any thoughts?

Nyoka
Apr 22nd 2008, 04:15 AM
I agree with VerticalReality. But I would go further and say that the lie spoken of is anything that is contrary to the word of God. Anything that's stated that can't be backed up and verified through scripture is a lie. The gospel of the bible is truth. Everthing else is a lie.


You are right. Anything we put before, or in place of, God, His Word and His commandments is a lie. Also any good lie will have a piece of truth in it. This is how Satan deceives.

Naphal
Apr 22nd 2008, 05:53 AM
There are a number of passages which elude to a lie in the Bible. I wonder what this lie is. Does anybody know from these verses?

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie,

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Romans 3:7
For if the truth of God through my lie hath abounded more unto His glory, why am I also yet judged as a sinner?


There is no one Lie. There are many lies and I believe all three scriptures are speaking of different lies.

Matt 13:44
Apr 22nd 2008, 08:46 AM
There is no one Lie. There are many lies and I believe all three scriptures are speaking of different lies.

So you believe all three are mentioning three different lies? Let's focus on them one by one then. 2 Thes 2:11 speaks of "the Lie" in this way

Therefore God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe not a lie but "the Lie"

What is "the lie" spoken of here? Keep in mind it is the Word of God sending us this powerful delusion because as we know God is synonimous with The Word of God. Keep this in mind also he sent his son the word to judge the world - Christ the power of God the wisdom of God - if anyone of us wishes to become wise he must become a fool. for this wisdom of this world is foolishness in Gods sight. Gods foolishness is stronger than our wisdom.

Last, Satan said he would set up his kingdom so close to Gods it would fool the very elect - if that were possilbe. In the Bible you have the false messiah and the real messiah. Distinguishing between the two may be harder then anyone can imagine. For just as Christ is not a man present in this world right now so the Anrichrist is not a man present in this world right now and never will be. We will never see the AntiChrist take the stage as a human being. That is why the mark of the beast goes undetected it is all in the mind. Just as you cannot see the mind of Christ so too you cannot see the mind of the evil one in any of us. I am as guilty as the next Christian but I think it is time we stop underestimating our enemy.

Any thought on all of this?

Naphal
Apr 22nd 2008, 09:12 PM
So you believe all three are mentioning three different lies? Let's focus on them one by one then. 2 Thes 2:11 speaks of "the Lie" in this way


Therefore God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe not a lie but "the Lie"


It does say "the Lie" not with "the" and not capitalizing the l on "Lie"

it says eis tˇ piste˙sai auto˙s toˇ pse˙dei, or "that should believe they a lie"

Just simply "a lie".





What is "the lie" spoken of here? Keep in mind it is the Word of God sending us this powerful delusion because as we know God is synonimous with The Word of God.

Us? No, it says the delusion is sent to "them" not us.

2 Thess 2:11-12
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
KJV


Who "they" are is shown in verse 12.





Keep this in mind also he sent his son the word to judge the world

Really?


John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.






Last, Satan said he would set up his kingdom so close to Gods it would fool the very elect - if that were possilbe.

That's not what it says:


Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Satan's actual "kingdom" set up during the tribulation won't match God's Kingdom closely at all. The imitating done is more what the verse says, false Christ's and false prophets shewing great signs and wonders that almost deceive the elect.




In the Bible you have the false messiah and the real messiah. Distinguishing between the two may be harder then anyone can imagine.

Well, that part I agree with because the false Messiah will fool most of the world.



For just as Christ is not a man present in this world right now so the Anrichrist is not a man present in this world right now and never will be. We will never see the AntiChrist take the stage as a human being.

Not true. Christ said we would see him and to look for him!


Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Paul and Revelation also speak of the one known as the Antichrist as a real man, a false prophet who works wonders to deceive the world.



That is why the mark of the beast goes undetected it is all in the mind. Just as you cannot see the mind of Christ so too you cannot see the mind of the evil one in any of us.

It can be detected if one has any amount of spiritual discernment.

Servant89
Apr 22nd 2008, 09:47 PM
I heard of the emerging church but have not paid much attention to it. I am from Puerto Rico but have been living in the USA for 28 years. I have not heard of that image that will be constructed but it would not surprise me.

The lie could be catholism. Noticed I gave you scriptures of things that the Bible declares them to be a lie (not me) and all of them are found in catholism. 100% of the "a lie" found in the Bible.

I have a Latin English dictionary and a Bible dictionary. This is what I found.

Bible dictionary: "Jezebel": means sexually pure, celibate. Picture a prostitute named Chastity and you will get the point.

The word "woman" in the Bible refers to:

1. a city (Jerusalem is called a woman various times)
2. a nation (Israel is often referred to as a woman
3. a church (the bride of Christ is a woman)

The Vatican is all three, in its flag is states Vatican City State, a city, a nation and a church, so, it is a woman.

Vatican in English for Vaticanus (webster can show you that). It is composed of two words, vatic - anus

Vatic means prophet (Check Webster)
Anus has several meanings, ring, center (the word anular), rectum and also the Latin dictionary states it means "old woman". In Spanish, old woman starts with "an" (anciana).

So vaticanus literally is either center of prophecy, rectum of prophecy or old prophetess.

Now read this with that in mind:

Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel that calls herself a prophetess.

Replacing those meanings that verse could read:

Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that cellibate city, nation, church that calls herself a Vatican....

and the rest is UGLY, keep reading after that verse.

Shalom

RJ Mac
Apr 22nd 2008, 10:56 PM
Naphal you stated - It does say "the Lie" not with "the" and not capitalizing the l on "Lie"
it says ei- tˇ piste˙sai auto˙s toˇ pse˙dei, or "that should believe they a lie" Just simply "a lie".

Not sure what Greek Bible your using but it's not the one used by the NKJV nor the one used by NAS, for in both of them 2Th.2:11; its "the lie" TW PSEUDEI and its the same in Ro.1:25 "the lie" TW PSEUDEI - And in Eph.4:25 the phrase putting aside falsehood is really -putting off "the lie" - TO PSEUDOS.

The lie I believe being referred to is the one found in Gen.3:1 it is the opening words of Satan - "Indeed has God said?" Put doubt of God's word in people's heart and they can never be saved. This doubt undermines any opportunity for the faith they need to have. "Indeed God has said!" This is the Truth!

RJ Mac

DPMartin
Apr 22nd 2008, 11:42 PM
A lie, interesting: Who is the father of lies? And what are words for?

Are words for the expression of God the Father’s will? Could it be, anything that does not express the Father’s will is a lie. And since the Truth, Jesus our Lord and Savior cannot be a lie, nor can lie, and is the expressed Will of the Father, everything else must be false. Other than the truth that a lie is a lie, or not the Truth.

Controversy is the way of the liar, one tells lies mixed with truth to gain his own will, and another does the same with his apposing will. Creating a controversy, confusion with an ongoing debate feeding the controversy in others, manipulating their feelings, or thoughts, and their wants.

The Truth Jesus the Christ is the solution, not controversy.

Naphal
Apr 22nd 2008, 11:46 PM
Naphal you stated - It does say "the Lie" not with "the" and not capitalizing the l on "Lie"
it says ei- tˇ piste˙sai auto˙s toˇ pse˙dei, or "that should believe they a lie" Just simply "a lie".

Not sure what Greek Bible your using but it's not the one used by the NKJV nor the one used by NAS, for in both of them 2Th.2:11; its "the lie" TW PSEUDEI and its the same in Ro.1:25 "the lie" TW PSEUDEI - And in Eph.4:25 the phrase putting aside falsehood is really -putting off "the lie" - TO PSEUDOS.

Lets make it simpler then:


2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

a lie, not the lie.

Even if a random translation uses "the lie" there is no emphasis of it as a certain, special, bible-wide, grand "the Lie".

Like I said. All three initial examples in the three verses are three different lies not all the same one lie.

Servant89
Apr 23rd 2008, 12:09 AM
<<Like I said. All three initial examples in the three verses are three different lies not all the same one lie.>>

That is crystal clear to everyone.

But whatever it is, I rather see it coming out of Scriptures than man's opinion.

Shalom

DPMartin
Apr 23rd 2008, 12:52 PM
"But whatever it is, I rather see it coming out of Scriptures than man's opinion."

Well said.

Matt 13:44
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:17 PM
Lets make it simpler then:


2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

a lie, not the lie.

Even if a random translation uses "the lie" there is no emphasis of it as a certain, special, bible-wide, grand "the Lie".

Like I said. All three initial examples in the three verses are three different lies not all the same one lie.

First, the NIV translation clearly says "the" lie:

11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

If we say "the" lie it does imply a grand lie just like when we say Jesus is the way "the" truth and the life it implies a grand truth.

I might get in trouble for saying this but logic says the only way you have the truth is through a lie. Without the lie the truth is unrecognizable. Or said differently:

Out of darkness shines the light; Out of the lie comes the truth

"The lie" spoken of in 2 Thes 2:11 is necessary so that the truth will be more abundant through it. Like Romans 3:7 says:

7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory;

I don't know if what I am saying here makes sense to anyone but I feel it is worth bringing up in this thread.

Thanks for you reply to my post.

Teke
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:37 PM
First, the NIV translation clearly says "the" lie:

11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

If we say "the" lie it does imply a grand lie just like when we say Jesus is the way "the" truth and the life it implies a grand truth.

I might get in trouble for saying this but logic says the only way you have the truth is through a lie. Without the lie the truth is unrecognizable. Or said differently:

Out of darkness shines the light; Out of the lie comes the truth

"The lie" spoken of in 2 Thes 2:11 is necessary so that the truth will be more abundant through it. Like Romans 3:7 says:

7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory;

I don't know if what I am saying here makes sense to anyone but I feel it is worth bringing up in this thread.

Thanks for you reply to my post.

Makes sense to me. :)
"The lie" is mans unfaithfulness. It is to be compared with God's faithfulness even when man is unfaithful.

"Let God be true but every man a liar" Rom. 3:4

Matt 13:44
Apr 23rd 2008, 01:46 PM
Makes sense to me. :)
"The lie" is mans unfaithfulness. It is to be compared with God's faithfulness even when man is unfaithful.

"Let God be true but every man a liar" Rom. 3:4

Well said:

2 Timothy 2:13
if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

I am glad what I said made sense to you. Thank you for your reply. Have a great day!!!

jeffj
Apr 23rd 2008, 02:13 PM
If you examine all of the things that were going on in Egypt when God led the Children of Isreal out and for each of the plagues he sent against Egypt you will see that the plagues were not so much against the Egyptians themselves, but against the gods they worshipped. All of the same gods that they worshipped in as sense can be viewed as sins that still exists today. When a person has sin in his life and decides in his own heart that he is not a sinner, but beleives that whatever he is doing is OK, then he has raised himself up as a god in his own mind, or he is worshipping the gods (man made gods) of the past. Throughout Isreal's history time and time again God had to raise up a deliverer for his people bacause they kept on going back to the sins of Egypt. Even when God instructed Isreal to drive out all other nations from thier lands, they didn't resulting in the sinful influence that spread throughout the land. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.