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walking4him
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:35 PM
I've read and reread this Chapter and I'm not sure if I get what Paul is saying. Is he saying that it's not important what day we worship and if we are vegetarians or eat meat? It seems as long as we are faithful we should not be divided on these matters. Am I correct in this understanding?

daughter
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:40 PM
I would say so... and I'd also say that this chapter has really helped me. You wouldn't believe the amount of people who tell me that I should eat meat because the Bible says so! What I see Paul as saying in this chapter is that the Kingdom of God is not about what we eat, what days we gather on, etc etc... but about how hard we are seeking Christ. We are HIS servants, and if whatever we do we do for Him, then we are in His will, and He is pleased with us. I can't receive meat for a meal with thankfulness... I'd feel guilty. For me it would be a sin. For another servant of Christ it would not be.

So who am I to judge Christ's servant? I'm nobody's master... not even my own. I belong to Christ. The least important thing about us is the form of our worship... the most important thing is that we love Christ.

That, I believe, is what Paul is saying here.

walking4him
Apr 22nd 2008, 12:46 PM
If most Christians just read this there would be less division in the demonations. I know of an very nice young lady who will not date people who are christian b/c they go to church on the "wrong" day. It's so sad that we allow the smallest thing to divide us from the Kingdom of God.

mikebr
Apr 22nd 2008, 07:58 PM
I've read and reread this Chapter and I'm not sure if I get what Paul is saying. Is he saying that it's not important what day we worship and if we are vegetarians or eat meat? It seems as long as we are faithful we should not be divided on these matters. Am I correct in this understanding?

The point is to worship in Spirit and in Truth per John 4. I can no longer imagine a God who gets mad at me because I worshiped Him on one day over another or because of what I choose to eat.

visus
Apr 23rd 2008, 03:04 AM
I agree with all that has been said so far. The important thing here is not to judge either way. I almost became a seventh day adventist until i read this Chapter. i had stopped eating pork before i saw this chapter. I do, however, support my friends and family who hold a particular day above others and refuse certain foods.

p.s If i could add a little to the mix here do you think It would be wise for a person who has no opposition to any particular food, or day of worship, marrying a person who does?

DaveS
Apr 23rd 2008, 03:38 AM
I've read and reread this Chapter and I'm not sure if I get what Paul is saying. Is he saying that it's not important what day we worship and if we are vegetarians or eat meat? It seems as long as we are faithful we should not be divided on these matters. Am I correct in this understanding?
I don't think Paul is saying that it's not important. He's saying that we shouldn't judge one another based on those things.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

I don't take from this passage that it doesn't matter whether we obstain from meat or not, or esteem one day above another or not. There is definitely a distinction made. Abstaining from meat and singling out one day in a religious context is said to be an infirmity, a spiritual weakness. So it isn't unimportant. But weakness is no excuse for the "strong" to pile on and cause injury to the weaker brother. Our brother's weakness is to be taken as an opportunity to come along side, to bear one anothers' burdens.

We all have our spiritual weaknesses. I only wish my worst ones were abstaining from meat or esteeming one day above the rest.

jeffj
Apr 23rd 2008, 04:11 AM
I beleive that Paul is saying that what one man does, do not let it be a stumbling block for you. You may have been told by one that eating certain things is wrong or worshiping on a certain day is the only way. If you take heed to whatever some may tell you, then it can cause you difficulty in your Christian life. Study the scriptures to show yourself approved.

Naphal
Apr 23rd 2008, 04:16 AM
Sometimes reading from a more modern translation can help clarify what the old English version does not:

CEV

Rom 14:1 Welcome all the Lord's followers, even those whose faith is weak. Don't criticize them for having beliefs that are different from yours.
Rom 14:2 Some think it is all right to eat anything, while those whose faith is weak will eat only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 But you should not criticize others for eating or for not eating. After all, God welcomes everyone.
Rom 14:4 What right do you have to criticize someone else's servants? Only their Lord can decide if they are doing right, and the Lord will make sure that they do right.
Rom 14:5 Some of the Lord's followers think one day is more important than another. Others think all days are the same. But each of you should make up your own mind.
Rom 14:6 Any followers who count one day more important than another day do it to honor their Lord. And any followers who eat meat give thanks to God, just like the ones who don't eat meat.
Rom 14:7 Whether we live or die, it must be for God, rather than for ourselves.
Rom 14:8 Whether we live or die, it must be for the Lord. Alive or dead, we still belong to the Lord.
Rom 14:9 This is because Christ died and rose to life, so that he would be the Lord of the dead and of the living.
Rom 14:10 Why do you criticize other followers of the Lord? Why do you look down on them? The day is coming when God will judge all of us.
Rom 14:11 In the Scriptures God says, "I swear by my very life that everyone will kneel down and praise my name!"
Rom 14:12 And so, each of us must give an account to God for what we do.
Rom 14:13 We must stop judging others. We must also make up our minds not to upset anyone's faith.
Rom 14:14 The Lord Jesus has made it clear to me that God considers all foods fit to eat. But if you think some foods are unfit to eat, then for you they are not fit.
Rom 14:15 If you are hurting others by the foods you eat, you are not guided by love. Don't let your appetite destroy someone Christ died for.
Rom 14:16 Don't let your right to eat bring shame to Christ.
Rom 14:17 God's kingdom isn't about eating and drinking. It is about pleasing God, about living in peace, and about true happiness. All this comes from the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 If you serve Christ in this way, you will please God and be respected by people.
Rom 14:19 We should try to live at peace and help each other have a strong faith.
Rom 14:20 Don't let your appetite destroy what God has done. All foods are fit to eat, but it is wrong to cause problems for others by what you eat.
Rom 14:21 It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else that causes problems for other followers of the Lord.
Rom 14:22 What you believe about these things should be kept between you and God. You are fortunate, if your actions don't make you have doubts.
Rom 14:23 But if you do have doubts about what you eat, you are going against your beliefs. And you know that is wrong, because anything you do against your beliefs is sin.

walking4him
Apr 23rd 2008, 11:56 AM
I agree with all that has been said so far. The important thing here is not to judge either way. I almost became a seventh day adventist until i read this Chapter. i had stopped eating pork before i saw this chapter. I do, however, support my friends and family who hold a particular day above others and refuse certain foods.

p.s If i could add a little to the mix here do you think It would be wise for a person who has no opposition to any particular food, or day of worship, marrying a person who does?

I'm in a situation like yours. There's this really nice girl that I've known now 5 years and she's Seventh Day Adventist. We get along real cool and she's never had a problem with me eating meat and the like before. Now that I'm active in church and in the Word she's been asking me questions like why I'm non denominational and the like. I showed her this passage and others concerning meat eating. She just took it in but didn't respond. I wouldn't have a problem attending her church if I were to marry her, but she would also have to accept that I'm not going to follow her churches rules concerning specific things. If you don't care about what day you worship nor meat eating than I don't think theres a problem as long as you both have the same basic understanding and belief in the word. imho.

daughter
Apr 23rd 2008, 12:04 PM
The big problem I have with SDA's isn't the diet thing (I know SDA's who are vegan, veggie, fish eaters, keep kosher, or "eat anything", so diet isn't the biggest thing for them.) The big problem I have is that they think that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast!

Now, I do keep Saturday special. My son and I have a special thing every Saturday, and it's always different. But we go to church on Sunday, because that's the day Christ rose, and made everything new. We also go to a regular prayer group on Thursday, and have a meal with them... we break bread and so forth, and it's a kind of impromptu communion.

So... I am not bothered by days, or what anyone else is eating... I'm just glad to be fellowshipping with other Christians. And every day should be lived to the Lord. SDA's are... religious about the Sabbath.

But I do know some wonderful Christians in the SDA church. I think they're a bit surprised I'm not SDA though, what with me keeping a kind of Sabbath, and being vegan! But it doesn't square well with Romans 14... for me.

walking4him
Apr 23rd 2008, 12:21 PM
The big problem I have is that they think that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast!

Not all believe that.

The ones that I have come across since some of my family are SDA are not the out there type. I know some who don't even bother with EG White. My main problem with any Sabbath keeping denomination, not just the SDA Church is that they act holier than thou during the Sabbath and then have like countdowns to when the sun sets on so then can go out. It's like "Oh well the suns down, lets hit up the club!"

It shouldn't matter what day it is one should be in a God worshiping state of mind at all times. If one is counting down the time to when they're "free" to do something their hearts aren't in the right place.

daughter
Apr 23rd 2008, 12:28 PM
Wow, I don't know any SDA's who go to clubs! I must have a very sheltered life... :lol:

walking4him
Apr 23rd 2008, 03:22 PM
Yeah it was so hypocritical. They would try to shame me for going to the movies or a lounge on a Friday, but come Saturday night..... The funnier thing was that they would throw lots of house parties so they were not at the club and they would be doing the same things that you see people at the club do.

Naphal
Apr 23rd 2008, 07:00 PM
So... I am not bothered by days, or what anyone else is eating... I'm just glad to be fellowshipping with other Christians. And every day should be lived to the Lord. SDA's are... religious about the Sabbath.



Yes they are. It is in their name so they definitely live up to it and make it an extreme importance, too much IMO. There is a nice SDA church near me and I've been there for bible study a number of times. Good people but I do take issues with several things including the zealousness of the Sabbath, the diet, Ellen White et al, and the fairly obvious anti-catholic sentiments, while not exactly befriending the Protestants lol

A funny thing once happened in bible study.


Luke 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?


They went into great lengths to prove in the Greek that the word "meat" here means food not literal animal flesh...and they are right it does....but they stopped right there lol


Luke 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

The problem is he did eat some fish meat. Their intention was to deny Christ ate literal meat but I found their thoroughness to be incomplete.

walking4him
Apr 23rd 2008, 07:06 PM
It's weird that I can't even find two that agree on what meat they can eat.

I've also come into contention with people with baptisim and what it should be.

Naphal
Apr 23rd 2008, 07:22 PM
I believe the point of this passage is to make your own mind up and go with that because it's a sin to go against what you believe in and to not offend others in the way you choose to believe.