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Tru_Knyte
Apr 27th 2008, 05:22 AM
Hi,

I was reading Leviticus 21 and came across passages 17-23:


Leviticus 21:17-23

17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed throughout their generations that hath a blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.

18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or anything superfluous,

19 or a man that is broken-footed, or broken-handed,

20 or crook-backed, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or is scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

21 no man of the seed of Aaron the priest, that hath a blemish, shall come nigh to offer the offerings of Jehovah made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy:

23 only he shall not go in unto the veil, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I am Jehovah who sanctifieth them.

In short, how come the disabled are treated so poorly?

Thanks and I eagerly await your replies. :)

Eaglenester
Apr 27th 2008, 05:56 AM
Yahweh is addressing the priesthood.

Above all Yahweh is Holy Holy Holy.

It's also prophetic:

Who is our High Priest?

Without blemish...

Bread....

What did Yahshua say about searching the Scriptures and they testify of Him?

Does this help I pray.

az6055
Apr 27th 2008, 10:53 PM
The Levites where priesthood people so leviticus I believe is named after them.

I think the whole book talks about what priest did.
Isn't that cool

valleybldr
Apr 28th 2008, 12:26 AM
Hi,

I was reading Leviticus 21 and came across passages 17-23:



In short, how come the disabled are treated so poorly?

Thanks and I eagerly await your replies. :) You are making a false assumption. Try reversing your logic and ask why is God being treated so poorly. todd

Tru_Knyte
Apr 28th 2008, 03:52 AM
You are making a false assumption. Try reversing your logic and ask why is God being treated so poorly. todd

I don't disagree that the Israelites "treated" God poorly. I'm just wondering how to respond to charges that this passage decrees the exclusion of the disabled and "blemished" from approaching God, whereas the healthy and non-disfigured are permitted to have the opportunity to fully participate in the proceedings.

In other words, it appears as though the disabled are discriminated against for things largely out of their control (e.g. could not control their disfigurement).

sonoma9
Apr 28th 2008, 04:09 AM
I agree with the response that said that the idea was connected to God being without blemish in that I have heard that before; I can't say for sure though. It was very hard for them having to live under the law as they did -- of course this all points to God's redemtive plan of salvation and how we are freed from the constrictions of the law in Christ Jesus.

Eaglenester
Apr 28th 2008, 04:42 AM
I don't disagree that the Israelites "treated" God poorly. I'm just wondering how to respond to charges that this passage decrees the exclusion of the disabled and "blemished" from approaching God, whereas the healthy and non-disfigured are permitted to have the opportunity to fully participate in the proceedings.

In other words, it appears as though the disabled are discriminated against for things largely out of their control (e.g. could not control their disfigurement).

You also have to remember that initially Yahweh wanted to communicate with His children directly.

When Yahweh first gave the 10 commandments - it was to ALL the Israelites.

What was their response?

and they trembled and stood at a distance,
and said to Mosheh (Moses), “You speak with us and we hear, but let not Elohim speak with us, lest we die.”

So the people stood at a distance, but Mosheh drew near the thick darkness where Elohim was.

Read Exodus 20

The people didn't want to deal / communicate directly, first hand with Yahweh -

Thus the Priesthood with all it's rules, plan b in a way

Jubal
Apr 28th 2008, 04:46 AM
I think it is because they were to represent God. And I think maybe the pagan peoples had some strange practices that God was trying to keep the Israelites from copying.

God is not unfair. Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts. -2 Chronicles 19:7

Tru_Knyte
Apr 28th 2008, 07:24 AM
You also have to remember that initially Yahweh wanted to communicate with His children directly.

When Yahweh first gave the 10 commandments - it was to ALL the Israelites.

What was their response?

and they trembled and stood at a distance,
and said to Mosheh (Moses), “You speak with us and we hear, but let not Elohim speak with us, lest we die.”

So the people stood at a distance, but Mosheh drew near the thick darkness where Elohim was.

Read Exodus 20

The people didn't want to deal / communicate directly, first hand with Yahweh -

Thus the Priesthood with all it's rules, plan b in a way

Sorry, I can't remember the exact verse, but I though that their fear was justified? Moses himself could not see the full glory of God either. Although I'm not sure if that verse refers to just being in His presence at a reduced state or all of it.

Brother Mark
Apr 28th 2008, 12:25 PM
I don't disagree that the Israelites "treated" God poorly. I'm just wondering how to respond to charges that this passage decrees the exclusion of the disabled and "blemished" from approaching God, whereas the healthy and non-disfigured are permitted to have the opportunity to fully participate in the proceedings.

In other words, it appears as though the disabled are discriminated against for things largely out of their control (e.g. could not control their disfigurement).

Eaglenester answered it above. God was giving us a type and a shadow with this passage of his son. It was all about revealing Christ in the law. If you want to see how God felt about the disabled, just look at what Jesus did for them. ;)

Eaglenester
Apr 28th 2008, 12:27 PM
Sorry, I can't remember the exact verse, but I though that their fear was justified? Moses himself could not see the full glory of God either. Although I'm not sure if that verse refers to just being in His presence at a reduced state or all of it.

Exo 20:20
And Mosheh said to the people, “Do not fear, for Elohim has come to prove you, and in order that His fear be before you, so that you do not sin.”

valleybldr
Apr 28th 2008, 01:02 PM
It was very hard for them having to live under the law as they did -- of course this all points to God's redemtive plan of salvation and how we are freed from the constrictions of the law in Christ Jesus. No, God's loving instructions are not "very hard" a life in bondage to sin and eternal death are. todd

========================

Matt 11:30 “My yoke is easy and my burden is light . . .”

Deut. 30:6 And Jehovah thy God will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Det. 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of Jehovah, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. :9 And Jehovah thy God will make thee plenteous in all the work of thy hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, for good: for Jehovah will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers; :10 if thou shalt obey the voice of Jehovah thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law; if thou turn unto Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul. :11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off. :12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? :13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? :14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; :16 in that I command thee this day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, that thou mayest live and multiply, and that Jehovah thy God may bless thee in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.

valleybldr
Apr 28th 2008, 01:07 PM
I don't disagree that the Israelites "treated" God poorly. I'm just wondering how to respond to charges that this passage decrees the exclusion of the disabled and "blemished" from approaching God, whereas the healthy and non-disfigured are permitted to have the opportunity to fully participate in the proceedings.

In other words, it appears as though the disabled are discriminated against for things largely out of their control (e.g. could not control their disfigurement). You missed the point. The best is only to be offered in service to the Lord. This was a physical illustration and understanding it should eliminate one taking offense. todd

daughter
Apr 28th 2008, 01:16 PM
I don't disagree that the Israelites "treated" God poorly. I'm just wondering how to respond to charges that this passage decrees the exclusion of the disabled and "blemished" from approaching God, whereas the healthy and non-disfigured are permitted to have the opportunity to fully participate in the proceedings.

In other words, it appears as though the disabled are discriminated against for things largely out of their control (e.g. could not control their disfigurement).
If someone says that to you, you can then point out that the laws changed after Christ. For example, a eunuch became the first evangelist to Africa, the first African baptised convert. I've often thought of him... "The children of the desolate are more than the children of the married." This man, who never would have been allowed to approach God under the old law, brought the Life of the World to Ethiopia.

The other comments above, about the prophetic importance of these passages are very helpful too.

Brother Mark
Apr 28th 2008, 01:20 PM
If someone says that to you, you can then point out that the laws changed after Christ. For example, a eunuch became the first evangelist to Africa, the first African baptised convert. I've often thought of him... "The children of the desolate are more than the children of the married." This man, who never would have been allowed to approach God under the old law, brought the Life of the World to Ethiopia.

The other comments above, about the prophetic importance of these passages are very helpful too.

That's an excellent point daughter! While the OT priest had to have certain qualifications to enter into the Holy of Holies, in Christ, we are now fully qualified to enter into the Holy of Holies. In Him we are priest to God and ambassadors to mankind.

Teke
Apr 28th 2008, 02:10 PM
Hi,

I was reading Leviticus 21 and came across passages 17-23:



In short, how come the disabled are treated so poorly?

Thanks and I eagerly await your replies. :)

Contradictory to Hebrews 11 eh.....;)

Hbr 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

HisLeast
Apr 28th 2008, 02:44 PM
In short, how come the disabled are treated so poorly?

Thanks and I eagerly await your replies. :)

The only thing I know is that they aren't being treated poorly. They don't have an equal opportunity, this is true, but they aren't being singled out for mistreatment.

Look at everything that was to be brought to the tent. Young bulls without blemish. Young sheep without blemish. Everything was without blemish. Why would a small flaw make the young bull sacrifice bad? I don't know... but there WOULD be a better bull out there for someone's benefit wouldn't there?

Check out my Leviticus (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1616605#post1616605) thread for some background. The thing about Leviticus is that God was in close physical proximity to the jews. To that end he deserved the most perfect of everything. Does God, the CREATOR of all matter & existance have some requirement for his creations to gather crude amounts of gold, silver, and jewels to build the tents, pavilions, alters, lamps, etc for his temple? NO! But they are the very best of what we can own, and his presence demands the best of us.

They aren't being mistreated. Why within a couple chapters very strict guidelines are given to the jews not to curse the deaf or cause the blind to stumble. But the close physical proximity to God's glory required that Isreal's society revolved around giving only the best to God.

valleybldr
Apr 28th 2008, 02:52 PM
This man, who never would have been allowed to approach God under the old law, brought the Life of the World to Ethiopia. Can you show me this in the Torah? There was a large minority of "strangers" among them and they were treated with legal protection and respect. BTW, I guess this fellow brought the Sabbath to Ethiopia because they hold to it to this day. todd

Tru_Knyte
Apr 28th 2008, 06:40 PM
Thanks for the replies guys, they really helped. :) I'll definitely re-read the passage again with your perspectives in mind to try and hash it out.


And thanks HisLeast for the link, I'll look at it when I get a chance. ;)