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Love Child
May 3rd 2008, 05:58 AM
Are we suppose to keep the sabbath?

Naphal
May 3rd 2008, 06:49 AM
Are we suppose to keep the sabbath?

Not the one that is a day of the week but Christ is our Sabbath now.


Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Truthinlove
May 3rd 2008, 08:36 AM
No, we do not need to observe the Sabbath.

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspx

Ta-An
May 3rd 2008, 09:37 AM
:idea: Make a polll ;)

valleybldr
May 3rd 2008, 11:46 AM
:idea: Make a polll ;) I agree. Most everyone's mind is made up and I really wonder how many folk out there reading these posts are open minded, truely studying in hopes of making an informed decision (as yet not formed in concrete). I have *many* areas of study that I'm undecided on but the Sabbath is not one of them. todd

Rullion Green
May 3rd 2008, 12:03 PM
This is something i have looked into with an open mind. It was very important to me to figure this out. I've had the discussion before with some people here, but a poll sounds like a good idea to me also !

I have been trying to upload a mp3 wich is done by a Messianic Jew wich explains the sabbath clearly. The upload keeps failing anyone wanting this can email me and i will send it to them. It taken from Ariel ministries my email is given on my website below for those interested.

Servant89
May 3rd 2008, 12:59 PM
I do not keep the Sabbath on purpose. Just like I do not kill lambs when I sin, nor do I tithe agricultural products that have to be brought to the Temple in Jerusalem.

For those of you that want to keep the Sabbath, this is what God's Law says about it.

7 Things that the law tell us to avoid doing on Sabbath days:

We can not prepare food (cook or bake, Exo 16:23).
We can not light a fire (Exo 35:3), so forget BBQs, if you want to keep the Sabbath.
We can not buy or sell (Neh 10:31; Neh 13:15-19)
We can not carry anything heavy (Neh 13:15-19, Jer 17:22-23)
We can not travel (leave or enter a city, Exo 16:29; Neh 13:15-19; Act 1:12)
We can not do any kind of work (Exo 20:10; Mat 12:5; John 5:17-18)
We can not pay anyone to do those things for us either (Lev 25:6)
Besides that, we also have to work 6 days a week, not 5 (Exo 20:9).

If you are going to do it, do it right.

Shalom

Servant89
May 3rd 2008, 01:00 PM
There is no DIRECT warning in the New Testament against violating the 4th commandment, i.e., “remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy”. There are many warnings against violating commandments # 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 but there is not one verse in the New Testament that DIRECTLY warns against violating commandment # 4. Y

You will never see in the New Testament any passage saying: Woe to those that break the Sabbath, or remember to keep the Sabbath day. But if you read the following passages you will see God saying things like that concerning the other commandments. Check it out.

TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT EACH ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED THROUGH DIRECT EXHORTATION OR DIRECT WARNING FOR THE BELIEVER…

Commandment # 1: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Mark 12:29,32; Rom 3:30; 1The 1:9; 1Cor 8:4,6; Gal 3:20; Eph 4:6; 1Tim 2:5; James 2:19. Love the Lord your God (Mat 22:39; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27; 2Ti 3:4; Luke 11:42).

Commandment # 2: Stay away from idols. Acts 15:20,29; Eph 5:5; 1Cor 5:11; 1Th 1:9; Acts 17:16; Acts 21:25; 1Cor 6:9; 1Pe 4:3-4; 1Cor 10:7,14; 1John 5:21; Rev 2:14,20; Rev 9:20; Rev 21:8; Rev 22:15.

Commandment # 3: Do not take the name of the Lord in vain. Rom 2:24; 1Tim 6:1; Rev 16:9; Rev 13:6; Mat 12:31; Rev 16:9; James 2:7.

Commandment # 4: NOT ONE VERSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Commadment # 5: Honor your father and mother. Rom 1:30; 2Tim 3:2; Mat 19:19; Luke 18:20; Mat 15:4; Mark 10:19; Eph 6:2; Mark 7:10.

Commandment # 6: Do not kill. Mark 10:19; Mat 19:18; Luke 18:20; Rom 13:9; Rom 1:29; Gal 5:21; 1Tim 1:9; 1Pe 4:15; 1John 3:15; Rev 9:21; Rev 21:8; Rev 22:15.

Commadment # 7: Do not comit adultery. Mar 10:19; Mat 19:18; Luke 16:18; Luke 18:20; Heb 13:4; Mat 5:27; Gal 5:19; Mat 15:19-20; Mark 7:121; Mark 10:11-12; Rom 13:9; 1Cor 6:9.

Commandment # 8: Do not steal. Mat 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; 1Cor 6:9; Rom 13:9; Rom 2:21; 1Cor 6:9-10; Eph 4:28; 1Pe 4:15.

Commandment # 9. Do not lie. Mat 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Rom 13:9; John 8:44; Acts 5:3; Col 3:9; Rev 21:27; Rev 22:15.

Commandment # 10. Do not covet. Eph 5:3,5; Mark 7:22-23; 2Pe 2:14; 1Cor 6:9; Rom 13:9; luke 12:15; 1Cor 5:11; 1Tim 6:10; 1Tim 3:2; Rom 1:29; Rom 7:7; Col 3:5-6.

Commandment # 4 is the exception to this rule. There is not direct exhortation or warning in the New Testament telling us we should keep the commandment concerning the Sabbath. Why is that? Did God forget something? Some claim that Luke 23:56 and Heb 4 are examples of direct order to keep commandment # 4 but they are not. Luke 23:56 is a documentation of history just like Gen 21:4. It is not a direct exhortation like we see for the other commandments.


Shalom

Truthinlove
May 3rd 2008, 01:15 PM
That info is very similar to the article I gave the link for.

The article just goes into a lot of detail...it's really good. I think everyone should read it. ;) :)

diffangle
May 3rd 2008, 01:16 PM
I do not keep the Sabbath on purpose. Just like I do not kill lambs when I sin, nor do I tithe agricultural products that have to be brought to the Temple in Jerusalem.


Those things aren't part of the ten Commandments but we still need The Sacrifice(Yahushua) in order for our sins to be forgiven and the third Temple is not built yet so those offerings are put on hold right now, the offerings will resume... read Zech. 14.





For those of you that want to keep the Sabbath, this is what God's Law says about it.

7 Things that the law tell us to avoid doing on Sabbath days:

We can not prepare food (cook or bake, Exo 16:23).
We can not light a fire (Exo 35:3), so forget BBQs, if you want to keep the Sabbath.
We can not buy or sell (Neh 10:31; Neh 13:15-19)
We can not carry anything heavy (Neh 13:15-19, Jer 17:22-23)
We can not travel (leave or enter a city, Exo 16:29; Neh 13:15-19; Act 1:12)
We can not do any kind of work (Exo 20:10; Mat 12:5; John 5:17-18)
We can not pay anyone to do those things for us either (Lev 25:6)
Besides that, we also have to work 6 days a week, not 5 (Exo 20:9).

If you are going to do it, do it right.

Shalom

Already got those covered, really isn't a big deal for a 24 hr period... it's actually really nice to have a rest/change of pace 1 out the 7 days of the week. :)

diffangle
May 3rd 2008, 01:22 PM
There is no DIRECT warning in the New Testament against violating the 4th commandment, i.e., “remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy”. There are many warnings against violating commandments # 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 but there is not one verse in the New Testament that DIRECTLY warns against violating commandment # 4. Y

You will never see in the New Testament any passage saying: Woe to those that break the Sabbath, or remember to keep the Sabbath day. But if you read the following passages you will see God saying things like that concerning the other commandments. Check it out.

TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT EACH ONE OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED THROUGH DIRECT EXHORTATION OR DIRECT WARNING FOR THE BELIEVER…

Commandment # 1: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Mark 12:29,32; Rom 3:30; 1The 1:9; 1Cor 8:4,6; Gal 3:20; Eph 4:6; 1Tim 2:5; James 2:19. Love the Lord your God (Mat 22:39; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27; 2Ti 3:4; Luke 11:42).

Commandment # 2: Stay away from idols. Acts 15:20,29; Eph 5:5; 1Cor 5:11; 1Th 1:9; Acts 17:16; Acts 21:25; 1Cor 6:9; 1Pe 4:3-4; 1Cor 10:7,14; 1John 5:21; Rev 2:14,20; Rev 9:20; Rev 21:8; Rev 22:15.

Commandment # 3: Do not take the name of the Lord in vain. Rom 2:24; 1Tim 6:1; Rev 16:9; Rev 13:6; Mat 12:31; Rev 16:9; James 2:7.

Commandment # 4: NOT ONE VERSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Commadment # 5: Honor your father and mother. Rom 1:30; 2Tim 3:2; Mat 19:19; Luke 18:20; Mat 15:4; Mark 10:19; Eph 6:2; Mark 7:10.

Commandment # 6: Do not kill. Mark 10:19; Mat 19:18; Luke 18:20; Rom 13:9; Rom 1:29; Gal 5:21; 1Tim 1:9; 1Pe 4:15; 1John 3:15; Rev 9:21; Rev 21:8; Rev 22:15.

Commadment # 7: Do not comit adultery. Mar 10:19; Mat 19:18; Luke 16:18; Luke 18:20; Heb 13:4; Mat 5:27; Gal 5:19; Mat 15:19-20; Mark 7:121; Mark 10:11-12; Rom 13:9; 1Cor 6:9.

Commandment # 8: Do not steal. Mat 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; 1Cor 6:9; Rom 13:9; Rom 2:21; 1Cor 6:9-10; Eph 4:28; 1Pe 4:15.

Commandment # 9. Do not lie. Mat 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Rom 13:9; John 8:44; Acts 5:3; Col 3:9; Rev 21:27; Rev 22:15.

Commandment # 10. Do not covet. Eph 5:3,5; Mark 7:22-23; 2Pe 2:14; 1Cor 6:9; Rom 13:9; luke 12:15; 1Cor 5:11; 1Tim 6:10; 1Tim 3:2; Rom 1:29; Rom 7:7; Col 3:5-6.

Commandment # 4 is the exception to this rule. There is not direct exhortation or warning in the New Testament telling us we should keep the commandment concerning the Sabbath. Why is that? Did God forget something? Some claim that Luke 23:56 and Heb 4 are examples of direct order to keep commandment # 4 but they are not. Luke 23:56 is a documentation of history just like Gen 21:4. It is not a direct exhortation like we see for the other commandments.


Shalom
Mar 2:27 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Mar&chapter=2&verse=27&version=kjv#27)And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:

Here we have Yahushua speaking of the Sabbath in he NT saying it was made "for" us, how could something that is for us be against us?

Truthinlove
May 3rd 2008, 01:33 PM
Mar 2:27 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Mar&chapter=2&verse=27&version=kjv#27)And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:

Here we have Yahushua speaking of the Sabbath in he NT saying it was made "for" us, how could something that is for us be against us?

From the article......"The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations. It was given only to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel."

Notice that they, who were Jewish, were breaking the sabbath by picking grain and Jesus defended them.

Jesusinmyheart
May 3rd 2008, 01:52 PM
You will never see in the New Testament any passage saying: Woe to those that break the Sabbath, or remember to keep the Sabbath day. But if you read the following passages you will see God saying things like that concerning the other commandments. Check it out.True, you will not find that. However, with careful study and reading the scriptures, what you will find, is that Yeshua in His entire time of Ministry tried to put the Sabbath in perspective to all, and especially to the Pharisees, in regards to what was allowed and what not on Sabbath.
He NEVER rescinded it saying it was obsolete either.

And if you read Acts, you will find quite a few accounts of the apostles keeping the Sabbath in a manner consistent with the scriptures of old.

Check it out!

Shalom,
Tanja

Jesusinmyheart
May 3rd 2008, 02:00 PM
From the article......"The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations. It was given only to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel."

Notice that they, who were Jewish, were breaking the sabbath by picking grain and Jesus defended them.

Well if you read the scriptures in context, you will see that even non Israelites were expected and given the Command to keep the Sabbath though it is a very broad statement and applies to all the Law.

Exo 12:49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."

Num 15:16 One law and one rule shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

As for the disciples to break Sabbath Law, That is a matter of perspective and understanding the Commandments of God, including the part where Yeshua said:

Mat 12:7 And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.

His disciples were hungered, enough to do what they did. This is the mercy of God, they didn't break the Sabbath, but they did what was necessary.

If a life was at stake, i would lift heavy objects or whatever on a sabbath. To preserve life and care for the wellbeing of another is not against the Commands of God to keep the Sabbath.

Shalom,
Tanja

Brother Mark
May 3rd 2008, 02:06 PM
We must keep the Sabbath in spirit. How to do that is explained in Hebrews 3.

Heb 4:1-7

4 Therefore, let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,

"As I swore in My wrath,
They shall not enter My rest,"

although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has thus said somewhere concerning the seventh day, "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this passage, "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
NASB

Even from the beginning, the 7th day pointed to us entering God's rest. That is the Sabbath that we should all strive to keep.

As for what day to rest physically from work, here is a passage of scripture that will help with that decision.

Rom 14:3-6
4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
NASB

We are told in other passages to judge those that are within the church for fornication and such. But here, we are clearly told not to go by another's convictions nor to allow ourselves to be controlled or judged by another. If you want to keep saturday as the sabbath, do so unto the Lord. If you wish to rest on Tuesday one week and Monday the next, do so unto the Lord. One man regards all days equal before the Lord and that is fine. Another sees some days as higher than others and that is fine. Whether one keeps the day or doesn't keep the day, he does so unto the Lord.

Spiritually, we all need to enter into God's rest by ceasing from our own on works. Physically, we need a day of rest. We don't have to confuse the two. The OT sabbath pointed to the rest in the Lord that we have in Spirit. Joshua showed us how to enter that rest when we conquer many of our spiritual enemies (i.e. sins that are in us).

diffangle
May 3rd 2008, 02:12 PM
From the article......"The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations. It was given only to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel."

The Ten Commandments that were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant are only for blood Jews? In the OT(and the NT) all were required to keep the Commandments...

Exd 12:49 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=12&v=49&t=KJV#49)One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

In the NT we're told that we as believer's become "Jews" and a part of Israel...

Rom 2:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=2&verse=28&version=kjv#28)For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=2&verse=29&version=kjv#29)But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.


Eph 2:12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eph&chapter=2&verse=12&version=kjv#12)That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eph&chapter=2&verse=19&version=kjv#19)¶Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;


and that...

1Jo 5:2 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=2&t=KJV#2)By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments.

1Jo 5:3 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=3&t=KJV#3)For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.



Notice that they, who were Jewish, were breaking the sabbath by picking grain and Jesus defended them.

They were not breaking the Sabbath according to the OT, they were hungry and when it was a matter of life and death it was a good thing to do... that's why Yahushua mentioned how King David was not doing anything unlawful when he and his men were starving and they took the shewbread from the Tabernacle to eat. Just b/c the Pharisees said that the disciples were breaking the Sabbath doesn't mean they really were... remember, the Pharisees were notorious for adding to the Word of YHWH.

Brother Mark
May 3rd 2008, 02:22 PM
They were not breaking the Sabbath according to the OT, they were hungry and when it was a matter of life and death it was a good thing to do... that's why Yahushua mentioned how King David was not doing anything unlawful when he and his men were starving and they took the shewbread from the Tabernacle to eat. Just b/c the Pharisees said that the disciples were breaking the Sabbath doesn't mean they really were... remember, the Pharisees were notorious for adding to the Word of YHWH.

There were hungry, but I doubt it was a matter of life and death. One can live without food for a long, long time. They wouldn't have died that day had they waited till the next day to glean. Still, it was an act of mercy to allow them to eat and there is nothing wrong with showing mercy.

diffangle
May 3rd 2008, 02:37 PM
Still, it was an act of mercy to allow them to eat and there is nothing wrong with showing mercy.
Correct, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. :)

Servant89
May 3rd 2008, 04:24 PM
<<They were not breaking the Sabbath according to the OT>>

???

READ IT, AND BELIEVE IT.

John 5:16And for this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work.18For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.


Jesus spent a lot of time working on Sabbath days. Working is the opposite of resting. That is why John 5:18 states that he BROKE THE SABBATH. Mat 12:1-6 states that sometimes it is not a sin to break God's law, under certain circumstances (in order to fulfill the spirit of the law, sometimes we have to break the law). Jesus did not comit sin, but he broke the sabbath. 75% of the times the word "sabbath" is mentioned in the gospels is to show Jesus working on Sabbath days. Thank God he put us first, above the law. Let us go and do the same.

Shalom

Jesusinmyheart
May 3rd 2008, 04:46 PM
John 5:16And for this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work.18For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.


Jesus spent a lot of time working on Sabbath days. Working is the opposite of resting. That is why John 5:18 states that he BROKE THE SABBATH. Mat 12:1-6 states that sometimes it is not a sin to break God's law, under certain circumstances (in order to fulfill the spirit of the law, sometimes we have to break the law). Jesus did not comit sin, but he broke the sabbath. 75% of the times the word "sabbath" is mentioned in the gospels is to show Jesus working on Sabbath days. Thank God he put us first, above the law. Let us go and do the same.

Careful about how that may sound to many. I agree in essence with your statement, but would be quick to clarify, that what you stated above must be considered in context with scriptures.

Especially one must then ask, what sort of works did Yeshua do on the Sabbath?

Was it work to sustain His life, or that of others. Was He easing his own burdens, or that of others? Was he buying or selling?

It is Lawful to do good on the Sabbath is what Yeshua said. Good works are talked about here. Another hint in scripture on the actual restrictions on the Sabbath are listed in the OT:

Isa 58:13 If you refrain from trampling the sabbath, from pursuing your own interests on my holy day; if you call the sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, serving your own interests, or pursuing your own affairs;
Isa 58:14 then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride upon the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of your ancestor Jacob, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

The Sabbath was made FOR man, meaning it wasn't made for our selfish gain, but for us to give of ourselves as Yeshua did, helping those less fortunate, healing them, restoring their sight, and all sorts of miracles.

If one understands these things one can see how the Sabbath is to be kept.

Shalom,
Tanja

Love Child
May 3rd 2008, 10:12 PM
:idea: Make a polll ;)

WOOOWWWW- I think I might take you up on that.

Love Child
May 3rd 2008, 10:20 PM
There were hungry, but I doubt it was a matter of life and death. One can live without food for a long, long time. They wouldn't have died that day had they waited till the next day to glean. Still, it was an act of mercy to allow them to eat and there is nothing wrong with showing mercy.

Neither Jesus, nor David broke the sabbath. The sabbath was for rest, worship, and to meet out needs, both spiritually and physically. And how can someone rest when they are sick, so Jesus fulfilled the sabbath by healing on the sabbath. Besides Jesus did not break the sabbath rules, but the Pharasisees rules, for they had added on to the scripture to prevent breaking the law.

Naphal
May 3rd 2008, 10:29 PM
for they had added on to the scripture to prevent breaking the law.

That's not what they added nor the purpose for any additions. They made the law easier to break because they added more rules than God did. If they wanted it to be harder to brake the Sabbath they would have reduced the rules of it.

Servant89
May 3rd 2008, 11:18 PM
<<Besides Jesus did not break the sabbath rules.>>

The commandment was to rest on the Sabbath, working was not allowed.

The Scripture can not be broken. The Holy Spirit is the narrator of the gospels. He said Jesus broke the sabbath in John 5:18 (deal with it). But it was not a sin (as stated in Mat 12:1-6). Jesus fulfilled the spirit of the law. Matthew 12 states that David did that which was unlawful and yet did not sin (remained blameless). Unlawful means not in accordance with the letter of the law.

Jesus broke the 4th commandment saying My Father works Saturdays, so do I (John 5:16-18). That is called breaking the commanded rest. And thank God for working out our healing and salvation when he was supposed to rest.

Shalom

Brother Mark
May 3rd 2008, 11:21 PM
<<Besides Jesus did not break the sabbath rules.>>

The commandment was to rest on the Sabbath, working was not allowed.

The Scripture can not be broken. The Holy Spirit is the narrator of the gospels. He said Jesus broke the sabbath in John 5:18 (deal with it). But it was not a sin (as stated in Mat 12:1-6). Jesus fulfilled the spirit of the law. Matthew 12 states that David did that which was unlawful and yet did not sin (remained blameless). Unlawful means not in accordance with the letter of the law.

Jesus broke the 4th commandment saying My Father works Saturdays, so do I (John 5:16-18). That is called breaking the commanded rest. And thank God for working out our healing and salvation when he was supposed to rest.

Shalom

Actually, Jesus didn't break the command in the way people want to believe. He said he only did that which the father said do. The sabbath was a time for us to rest from our labors. Jesus never labored for himself. As we move into the sabbath rest that God has for us, we too will cease from our labors and only "do what the Father says do".

Naphal
May 3rd 2008, 11:23 PM
<<Besides Jesus did not break the sabbath rules.>>

The commandment was to rest on the Sabbath, working was not allowed.

The Scripture can not be broken. The Holy Spirit is the narrator of the gospels. He said Jesus broke the sabbath in John 5:18 (deal with it). But it was not a sin (as stated in Mat 12:1-6). Jesus fulfilled the spirit of the law. Matthew 12 states that David did that which was unlawful and yet did not sin (remained blameless). Unlawful means not in accordance with the letter of the law.

Jesus broke the 4th commandment saying My Father works Saturdays, so do I (John 5:16-18). That is called breaking the commanded rest. And thank God for working out our healing and salvation when he was supposed to rest.

Shalom

I totally agree with everything stated in this post. One could break/profane the Sabbath and be blameless and there are many examples. Today it is of no matter either way but back then you could only remain blameless if the reason was valid enough. Well done.

Truthinlove
May 4th 2008, 01:35 AM
The Ten Commandments that were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant are only for blood Jews? In the OT(and the NT) all were required to keep the Commandments

All of the 10 commandments are repeated in the NT, EXCEPT Sabbath keeping!
This clearly shows the Sabbath was for Israel alone.

"And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he ceased from labor, and was refreshed." Exodus 31:12-17

diffangle
May 4th 2008, 02:22 AM
All of the 10 commandments are repeated in the NT, EXCEPT Sabbath keeping!
This clearly shows the Sabbath was for Israel alone.

"And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he ceased from labor, and was refreshed." Exodus 31:12-17
Read the rest of what I posted... here it is again...



In the NT we're told that we as believer's become "Jews" and a part of Israel...

Rom 2:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=2&verse=28&version=kjv#28)For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Rom&chapter=2&verse=29&version=kjv#29)But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.


Eph 2:12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eph&chapter=2&verse=12&version=kjv#12)That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eph&chapter=2&verse=19&version=kjv#19)¶Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;


and that...

1Jo 5:2 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=2&t=KJV#2)By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep His commandments.

1Jo 5:3 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=3&t=KJV#3)For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

timmyb
May 4th 2008, 02:26 AM
There were hungry, but I doubt it was a matter of life and death. One can live without food for a long, long time. They wouldn't have died that day had they waited till the next day to glean. Still, it was an act of mercy to allow them to eat and there is nothing wrong with showing mercy.

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for neglecting the greater part of the law which was mercy and Justice

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

It was on that basis that Jesus could heal on the Sabbath. It was on that basis that David and his men could eat the showbread... Who says God doesn't like to share? He tells us to.

How many of us delight in mercy? How many of us love mercy so much that we jump for joy at the thought of forgiving the ones who transgress against us? To show mercy to a brother is to show a brother the true nature of God's love. The issue is not the law... The true issue is mercy and love and justice... not the Sabbath

brakelite
May 4th 2008, 05:20 AM
God calls His day holy, and a day of honour.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

I really think we need to be careful when discussing this issue that we refrain from taking that which God calls holy, and designating it a 'burden', a 'curse', or a 'beggarly element'. I see nowhere in the Bible where God calls something holy, and changes His mind, or it ceases to be holy in time, or ceases to be holy as a result of a majority opinion.
Paul confirms this when he called the law holy, just, and good.

By the way, the entire chapter of Isaiah 58 is as much an instruction for the NT church as it was for the old testament church. Are we not all Israelites?

Naphal
May 4th 2008, 05:38 AM
I really think we need to be careful when discussing this issue that we refrain from taking that which God calls holy, and designating it a 'burden', a 'curse', or a 'beggarly element'.

God called the law these things in hindsight not the Sabbath specifically. The Sabbath is still Holy, even more Holy than how it began. It simply is no longer a day of the week.



Paul confirms this when he called the law holy, just, and good.


The law of the NT is Holy, just, and good.


Are we not all Israelites?

In a spiritual sense gentiles have become part of Israel, called spiritual Israel. That doesn't mean things commanded to natural Israel only, in the old covenant applies to anyone in the new covenant.

diffangle
May 4th 2008, 01:36 PM
God called the law these things in hindsight not the Sabbath specifically. The Sabbath is still Holy, even more Holy than how it began. It simply is no longer a day of the week.

What verse says the physical Sabbath day of rest is no longer a day of the week?

Isa 56:6 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=56&v=6&t=KJV#6) Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the name of YHWH, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;



The law of the NT is Holy, just, and good.

The Law Paul was refering to is the OT since the NT wasn't written at that time.



In a spiritual sense gentiles have become part of Israel, called spiritual Israel. That doesn't mean things commanded to natural Israel only, in the old covenant applies to anyone in the new covenant.


Exd 12:49 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=12&v=49&t=KJV#49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.


Eph 2:12 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eph&chapter=2&verse=12&version=kjv#12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Eph&chapter=2&verse=19&version=kjv#19) ¶Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

1Jo 5:3 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=3&t=KJV#3) For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12) Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


Here's prophecy that will be fulfilled in the future, the verse shows that the Sabbath will still be standing...

Isa 66:23 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=66&v=23&t=KJV#23) And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith YHWH.

Ta-An
May 4th 2008, 02:25 PM
We keep the Sabbath not because it is law, but because we love :)

Jesusinmyheart
May 4th 2008, 04:20 PM
timmyb,

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for neglecting the greater part of the law which was mercy and Justice

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

It was on that basis that Jesus could heal on the Sabbath. It was on that basis that David and his men could eat the showbread... Who says God doesn't like to share? He tells us to.

How many of us delight in mercy? How many of us love mercy so much that we jump for joy at the thought of forgiving the ones who transgress against us? To show mercy to a brother is to show a brother the true nature of God's love. The issue is not the law... The true issue is mercy and love and justice... not the SabbathBut this is exactly what the weekly Sabbath is about, it's about Mercy, love, compassion for a whole 24 hour period. In that time God asks us to lay aside all of our weekly burdens such as doing chores/working to earn our sustenance, and meeting our physical needs.

On the weekly Sabbath we are to rest completely, and not worry about anything and not do anything that we do during the week to take care of ourselves. It is a day set aside completely for our fellow beings, be that our children, family or complete strangers. It is a day of complete mercy, rest, goodwill, and no worries.
That's why God said here:

Isa 58:13 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;

It is a picture of things to come, of a time when all the world on a daily basis will not care for themselves but for one another all the time.

Did you ever wonder what it would be like in the world to come if everyone took care of each other, as it is described in Acts:

Act 4:34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold
Act 4:35 and laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

This is unfortunately not the case in today's society yet, but this is what the world to come will be like when things are made perfect. Unfortunately in this world we still have to work by the sweat of our brows to earn a living, because we are not in a community that does as we would/should do. Heck not even among Christians is this practiced in the manner of Acts 4:35 just yet.

This is what the weekly Sabbath represents, and this is what Yeshua so desperately tried to get across to the Pharisees, who were just keeping the rules for themselves to look holy.

This is what Yeshua meant by being the Lord of the Sabbath. The Light of the world... and this is what the Sabbath represents also, a light, that will grow bigger the more people will understand and practice this, in Spirit, and in deed. If one day rehearsal is practiced soon it will spread to other days and the whole week will be a Sabbath.....

Granted, and i agree this is the way it should be every day of the week, but in this world at this time it;s not possible just yet, so we practice on one day just 24 hours a rehearsal of what is to come.

And just what is it God desires to come? A global Community, that will do as was seen in Acts 4:35
This is what each of us should strive to do individually to set a shining example.

This is why we CELEBRATE the Sabbath.... it is a refreshing spiritual experience that is all the more fulfilling if lived out and made manifest in deeds.
Shalom,
Tanja

timmyb
May 4th 2008, 09:47 PM
We keep the Sabbath not because it is law, but because we love :)

if we are required to keep the Sabbath... then what day? How do we best do it? What can we do on the Sabbath? What can't we do on the Sabbath?

I can see a huge can of worms opened up when this issue is discussed.

Brother Mark
May 4th 2008, 10:28 PM
I can see a huge can of worms opened up when this issue is discussed.

Oh yea, the sabbath threads are always a can of worms. ;)

Love Child
May 4th 2008, 11:10 PM
if we are required to keep the Sabbath... then what day? How do we best do it? What can we do on the Sabbath? What can't we do on the Sabbath?

I can see a huge can of worms opened up when this issue is discussed.

Well it would be kept on the seventh day, saturday. We would rest from our labor and worship the Lord.

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 12:09 AM
What verse says the physical Sabbath day of rest is no longer a day of the week?


Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The Jews had and kept the weekly Sabbath but they could not enter into the true Sabbath/rest of God which was not a day of resting.




(http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=3&t=KJV#3)1Jo 5:3 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=3&t=KJV#3) For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous. (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=5&v=3&t=KJV#3)

These are the commandments of Christ, not the ten Sinai commandments.






(http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)Rev 14:12 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12) Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)

See above


Here's prophecy that will be fulfilled in the future, the verse shows that the Sabbath will still be standing...



(http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=66&v=23&t=KJV#23)Isa 66:23 (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=66&v=23&t=KJV#23) And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith YHWH.
(http://cf.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=66&v=23&t=KJV#23)

It's a figure of speech. There will be no new moons because there will be no darkness....no literal 7th day Sabbath either. It simply means worshiping God will continue forever, not that Sabbath keeping and Darkness/new moons exist.

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 12:09 AM
We keep the Sabbath not because it is law, but because we love :)

*Some* do but many, many, many others teach that it is law.

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 12:12 AM
Well it would be kept on the seventh day, saturday. We would rest from our labor and worship the Lord.

How about not kindling fire in addition to not laboring? Is that one important or is just not laboring the only rule to observe?

HisLeast
May 5th 2008, 01:25 AM
Its impossible to keep the sabbath in any society in which we now live. Sounds shocking right? Consider this...
- Do any of our nations stop working their fields every seventh year?
- Does any property get returned, or indentured labor set free every 50th year?
- Does our society price capital goods according to how close or far away the Jubilee year is?

People put Sabbath in a box, and only seem to talk about it when its "Saturday vs Sunday", but its much much more than that. Its actually a philosophy for running an entire society... from social activity to economic activity.

Jesusinmyheart
May 5th 2008, 01:46 AM
Its impossible to keep the sabbath in any society in which we now live. Sounds shocking right? Consider this...
- Do any of our nations stop working their fields every seventh year?
- Does any property get returned, or indentured labor set free every 50th year?
- Does our society price capital goods according to how close or far away the Jubilee year is?

People put Sabbath in a box, and only seem to talk about it when its "Saturday vs Sunday", but its much much more than that. Its actually a philosophy for running an entire society... from social activity to economic activity.

It's been forgotten as it has many times before. A return is needed because society can only be changed for the better through the Believing community, and the example they set.

Shalom,
Tanja

diffangle
May 5th 2008, 02:02 AM
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The Jews had and kept the weekly Sabbath but they could not enter into the true Sabbath/rest of God which was not a day of resting.

I don't see where that passage says the Sabbath day is no longer a day of the week, imo it confirms that those who are His should keep His Commandments/Sabbath rest.


[/URL]
[URL="http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12"] (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)
Rev 14:12 (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12) Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)These are the commandments of Christ, not the ten Sinai commandments. (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)


See above (http://cf.blb.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=14&v=12&t=KJV#12)

Again, the NT was not written yet so it is refering to the OT... besides isn't Christ God?




Here's prophecy that will be fulfilled in the future, the verse shows that the Sabbath will still be standing...

It's a figure of speech. There will be no new moons because there will be no darkness....no literal 7th day Sabbath either. It simply means worshiping God will continue forever, not that Sabbath keeping and Darkness/new moons exist.

I disagree. Also look at Zech 14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Zec&chapter=14&verse=16&version=kjv#16), future prophecy shows that the Feasts of YHWH will still be observed.

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 02:40 AM
I don't see where that passage says the Sabbath day is no longer a day of the week, imo it confirms that those who are His should keep His Commandments/Sabbath rest.

It's speaking of two different Sabbaths. One that was on a Saturday and one that was not a day of the week. Keeping the first did not mean you were able to enter the second. That was one of many issues with the Jews. I believe it is an issue today for some Christians.





Again, the NT was not written yet so it is refering to the OT... besides isn't Christ God?

The NT was written as Christ lived and yes Christ is God but Christ is not the Father God.



I disagree. Also look at Zech 14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Zec&chapter=14&verse=16&version=kjv#16), future prophecy shows that the Feasts of YHWH will still be observed.

It doesn't say animals will be sacrificed for sins because Christ was the last one God will ever require or accept. What we eat and how we gather in the future isn't an issue for me.

Jesusinmyheart
May 5th 2008, 02:48 AM
The NT was written as Christ lived and yes Christ is God but Christ is not the Father God. :o

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Shalom,
Tanja

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 03:23 AM
:o

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Shalom,
Tanja

Is that an attempt to teach Oneness in contradiction to the Trinity?

Jesusinmyheart
May 5th 2008, 03:49 AM
There is a oneness, yet it's three parts, though Yeshua is called the Son, He was and is God all the same.
He was from the foundation of the earth.

I think it's just the way you said it as if the Son was separate from the Father somehow.

Shalom,
Tanja

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 04:00 AM
There is a oneness, yet it's three parts, though Yeshua is called the Son, He was and is God all the same.
He was from the foundation of the earth.

I think it's just the way you said it as if the Son was separate from the Father somehow.

Shalom,
Tanja

All I said was that the Son is not the Father. The Son is a separate person than the Father. You produced a verse that is normally used by anti-Trinitarians. Do you believe in the Trinity, or do you believe in a God which has three different offices or modes?

diffangle
May 5th 2008, 04:13 AM
[quote=Naphal;1627088]It's speaking of two different Sabbaths. One that was on a Saturday and one that was not a day of the week. Keeping the first did not mean you were able to enter the second. That was one of many issues with the Jews. I believe it is an issue today for some Christians.

I don't agree that Heb. 4 is speaking of two different Sabbaths, where does it say it is different. Look at verse 9 where it speaks of how the Sabbath "remaineth", that indicates a continuation of what's been...

Hbr 4:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Hbr&chapter=4&verse=9&version=kjv#9)There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.



The NT was written as Christ lived and yes Christ is God but Christ is not the Father God.

Are you saying the authors of the NT were writing the NT as Yahushua was speaking/during His physical life? If Yahushua is YHWH, then wouldn't it make sense that YHWH's Word is Yahushua's Word? Does YHWH change?




It doesn't say animals will be sacrificed for sins because Christ was the last one God will ever require or accept. What we eat and how we gather in the future isn't an issue for me.

Zec 14:16 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Zec&chapter=14&verse=16&version=kjv#16)¶And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, YHWH of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zec 14:21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Zec&chapter=14&verse=21&version=kjv#21)Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto YHWH of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of YHWH of hosts.

I never said it would be for sin sacrifices, there are sacrifices for things other than sin. I was refering to that passage to show that the Sabbath just like the Feasts will still happen in the future.

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 04:20 AM
I don't agree that Heb. 4 is speaking of two different Sabbaths, where does it say it is different. Look at verse 9 where it speaks of how the Sabbath "remaineth", that indicates a continuation of what's been...

Hbr 4:9 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Hbr&chapter=4&verse=9&version=kjv#9)There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

There remains a rest that is not the original rest. That's what it is saying. There is a difference between the day of rest the Jews had and the rest in Christ that they didn't grasp.





Are you saying the authors of the NT were writing the NT as Yahushua was speaking/during His physical life?

I'm saying his life is a major part of the NT as well as the actual new testament/covenant was in affect literally when Jesus died and that he was teaching about this new covenant during his life.





If Yahushua is YHWH, then wouldn't it make sense that YHWH's Word is Yahushua's Word? Does YHWH change?

What?



[QUOTE]I never said it would be for sin sacrifices, there are sacrifices for things other than sin. I was refering to that passage to show that the Sabbath just like the Feasts will still happen in the future.

There will be no sacrifices where animals are killed, and there will not be a Sabbath which replaces the Sabbath rest in Christ.

brakelite
May 5th 2008, 09:34 PM
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
The key words here are as God did from His.
God did not need a spiritual rest. He physically rested on the 7th day. Paul is telling the Jewish converts that although many things have changed, vis-a-vis the priesthood, sacrifice and oblation, etc. "there remaineth yet a Sabbath rest for the people of God", "as God rested from His works".

Brother Mark
May 5th 2008, 09:45 PM
The key words here are as God did from His.
God did not need a spiritual rest. He physically rested on the 7th day. Paul is telling the Jewish converts that although many things have changed, vis-a-vis the priesthood, sacrifice and oblation, etc. "there remaineth yet a Sabbath rest for the people of God", "as God rested from His works".

God is Spirit. When he rested, he rested in Spirit because that is what He is. He needed no physical rest. The point is well made that we should rest from our labors and enter into his rest. We do so by doing as Jesus did... "I only do what the Father tells me to do". When we do that, we keep the sabbath. For he is Lord of the Sabbath and in following him, he keep the Sabbath holy.

Naphal
May 5th 2008, 09:55 PM
The key words here are as God did from His.
God did not need a spiritual rest. He physically rested on the 7th day. Paul is telling the Jewish converts that although many things have changed, vis-a-vis the priesthood, sacrifice and oblation, etc. "there remaineth yet a Sabbath rest for the people of God", "as God rested from His works".


Barnes:




Heb 4:8 -
For if Jesus - Margin, "That is, Joshua." The Syriac renders it, "Joshua the son of Nun." "Jesus" is the Greek mode of writing "Joshua," and there can be no doubt that Joshua is here intended. The object is to prove that Joshua did" not" give the people of God such a rest as to make it improper to speak of a "rest" after that time. "If Joshua had given them a complete and final rest; if by his conducting them to the promised land all had been done which had been contemplated by the promise, then it would not have been alluded to again, as it was in the time of David." Joshua "did" give them a rest in the promised land; but it was not all which was intended, and it did not exclude the promise of another and more important rest.
Then would he not - Then "God" would not have spoken of another time when that rest could be obtained. The "other day" here referred to is that which is mentioned before by the phrase "today," and refers to the time in which it is spoken of long after Joshua, to wit, in the time of David.




...............................................

Love Child
May 9th 2008, 02:15 PM
Plainly put, are we suppose to keep the sabbath day, and if so what are we not suppose to do?

Jesusinmyheart
May 9th 2008, 02:52 PM
Lovechild,

This is a protestant messageboard. As such i can only give you our scriptural support for the Sabbath, and explain why i see it as a valid everlasting command.

You will find a lot of differing opinions about this when you ask a direct question like that.

My recomendation to you would be to search out the scriptures, and ask God for truth as you go reading, and ask Him what He would have you do as you study the scriptures on this.

That's really all i can offer. You could ask about the scriptures which support this in my view, however, you could make use of the search function, as this topic has come up repeatedly over the past 3 years and been debated to death. :lol:

Shalom,
Tanja

Love Child
May 12th 2008, 12:24 AM
Lovechild,

This is a protestant messageboard. As such i can only give you our scriptural support for the Sabbath, and explain why i see it as a valid everlasting command.

You will find a lot of differing opinions about this when you ask a direct question like that.

My recomendation to you would be to search out the scriptures, and ask God for truth as you go reading, and ask Him what He would have you do as you study the scriptures on this.

That's really all i can offer. You could ask about the scriptures which support this in my view, however, you could make use of the search function, as this topic has come up repeatedly over the past 3 years and been debated to death. :lol:

Shalom,
Tanja
Thankyou, but interpretating the bible is going to be a task for me. Maybe the Lord will revel the answer to me if I pray about.

Love Child
May 12th 2008, 12:27 AM
I take it that you too always wondered the same question, and still looking for the answer. I notice that you have sabbathical/seaching under your name.

1of7000
May 12th 2008, 01:15 AM
The question to ask is, what are we supposed to do?

The Sabbath was a time of developing man's relationship with his Creator. God made Adam and then took time off to spend with his new family. When my sons were born I didn't rush back to work.I spent time marveling at the masterpiece set before me.

So the Sabbath is today. Time to do what you need to "hang with the Old Man" to go over the past week to celebrate the victories,mourn the mistakes and get ready to get back into the fight. It is to be a tender time of healing, whining and gathering strength. It is Abba time. That one time where you crawl into Daddy"s lap and cry your eyes out or giggle till you can't breathe.
whatever it takes for you to see that in your life is what you need to do. Read scripture, pray, play Newsboy's or Handel. You must work out your own salvation. Others may have input but He's your Poppa

brakelite
May 12th 2008, 01:38 AM
The question to ask is, what are we supposed to do?

The Sabbath was a time of developing man's relationship with his Creator. God made Adam and then took time off to spend with his new family. When my sons were born I didn't rush back to work.I spent time marveling at the masterpiece set before me.

So the Sabbath is today. Time to do what you need to "hang with the Old Man" to go over the past week to celebrate the victories,mourn the mistakes and get ready to get back into the fight. It is to be a tender time of healing, whining and gathering strength. It is Abba time. That one time where you crawl into Daddy"s lap and cry your eyes out or giggle till you can't breathe.
whatever it takes for you to see that in your life is what you need to do. Read scripture, pray, play Newsboy's or Handel. You must work out your own salvation. Others may have input but He's your Poppa

I like that. Well said.

Jesusinmyheart
May 12th 2008, 02:55 AM
I take it that you too always wondered the same question, and still looking for the answer. I notice that you have sabbathical/seaching under your name.I've had that title for a while, so no i'm no longer searching for an answer, but have found it. If you read a lot of my posts on this topic you'll see which way i swing on that.
I personally believe it is a commandment everlasting, awaiting future fulfillment.

Sabbatical means resting, and searching means i'm still continueing to search the scriptures diligently, but not referring to the Sabbath, as i have found what i was looking for, and He has made it quite clear to me.
I still search the scriptures for more understanding and wisdom, and i know He will continue to feed me as needed.
However, i have learned that God takes time in giving you pieces of the puzzle as you are capable of handling the placement thereof. He will not give you more than you can chew at a time. Each of us is different.

I hope that makes it more clear for you?

If not feel free to ask me. :hug:

Shalom,
Tanja