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JordanW
May 8th 2008, 08:32 AM
What exactly was Daniel's vision about according to chapter 8?


1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first. 2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

Rullion Green
May 8th 2008, 11:45 AM
It's quite a vast prophecy, Is there a particular point in the prophecy you are talking about ?


i'm no expert but i've took it to be talking about the time periode when Antiochus Epiphanes (the little horn) took over from Alexander and begun his persicution of the Jewish people and desicrated the temple.


Here's a little info on him taken from wiki.....




While Antiochus was busy in Egypt, an official he appointed as High Priest, Menelaus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menelaus_%28High_Priest%29), was forced to flee Jerusalem during a riot. On the King's return from Egypt in 167 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/167_BC), he attacked Jerusalem and restored Menalaus, then executed the leaders of the riot.
To strengthen his hold over the region, Antiochus decided to Hellenize the Jews by ordering the worship of Zeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus) as the supreme god.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes#cite_note-1) This was anathema to the Jews and when they refused, Antiochus sent an army to enforce his decree.
According to the Books of the Maccabees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Maccabees)), upon seizing Jerusalem his soldiers entered the Jewish Temple and slaughtered a pig, then tried to force Jewish men to eat the pig meat (which is impure by Jewish law). The men refused and the soldiers cut off the men's hands, feet, and tongues, then scalped (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalped) the men and burned them alive on the altar of the Lord. His goal was to assimilate the Jewish people by Hellenizing their religion, which was extreme provocation against a subject people who, until then, had been content to live under Seleucid rule. Afterwards the Jews broke into a full-scale rebellion led by the Maccabees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maccabees), who defeated the armies sent against them. This further undermined the Seleucid regime and provided the Romans with opportunities to ally with the Jews.




Mayby not what your looking for but it is a vast prophecy and the Little horn is the main player after the battles, between the ram and the goat, and it was he who caused the abomonation of desolations by sacrificing to pagan gods in the temple by sacraficing a pig.

RJ Mac
May 8th 2008, 12:37 PM
Ram with two horns = Medes and Persians ruling at the time.
He goat, large horn = Greece, Alexander the Great

Alexander died at 33 yrs old, trying to restore Babylon.
His 4 generals took rule of the world, dividing it up amongst them.

The little horn is Antiochus Epiphanes, he is stressed because of the
damage he does to the beautiful land - Israel.

He tries to introduce Greek practices, Hellenism, modernizing Israel.
Captures the Temple and offers pig sacrifices, for the 2300 days.

Maccabees revolt, Antiochus flees north, never to return.
Temple is cleansed and restored.

Daniel is prophetic concerning the actions of future governments and
their relationship to Israel.

Its a great historical study. Look it up in the ISBE under Greece or Antiochus.

RJ Mac

Jubal
May 8th 2008, 02:03 PM
Some scholars believe that this prophesy has yet to be fulfilled. The little horn is the antichrist. He will come from the 4th kingdom. Which many believe to be the revised Roman empire. I believe the bible only mentions four world kingdoms. The 1st is Babylon, the 2nd is Medo Persia, the 3rd is Greece, and the 4th is the Roman empire. Rome was/is the strongest world empire that ever was. Rome never really fell. It just broke into smaller pieces. Some scholars say eventually the Roman empire will come back together. And that's when the 'little horn' will appear.

IamBill
May 8th 2008, 02:18 PM
I agree Jubal, but that is of the four beasts.

Here,The Interpretation of the Ram/Goat is given, right along with the vision.

**
also, I believe "The" antichrist is a myth generated by one of the many antichrist
**

CoffeeBeaned
May 8th 2008, 02:23 PM
The little horn can also be seen as a dual reference to Antiochus Epiphanes and to the Anti-Christ. Antiochus E. was a foreshadowing of the much worse Anti-Christ to come.

Teke
May 9th 2008, 03:55 PM
What exactly was Daniel's vision about according to chapter 8?

Here is what I know of it. Daniels vision occurred about 551 BC. The "ram" (v3) represents Darius and the rule of the "Medes and Persians" (v20), which ended with the death of Belshazzar in 538 BC. The "male goat" (v5) represents the conquests of "the Greeks" (v21) up until th e time of the Romans, about 64 BC.

When Alexander's rule was "broken" (v8) when he was only 33, his "four" generals divided up his empire among themselves: Ptolemy I in Egypt; Seleucus I in Asia; Lysimachus in Asia Minor; and Casander in Macedonia. The "stron horn' (v9) is seen to represent Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who took the Seleucid kingdom in 175 BC. He put an end to temple sacrifice and set up a statue of Jupiter in the holy temple in Jerusalem.

The temple was "cleansed" (v14) under Judas Maccabeus after he had led the Jews to victory over the Syrians.