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KraggaKamma
May 15th 2008, 01:28 PM
Since I'm from South Africa and I see there's a "revival" taking hold under the auspices of the man of whose life has been encompassed in a film titled "Faith Like Potatoes", I would like to warn people about False Prophets in the end times we currently are living in.

Firstly, this is a religious movie - not a Christian movie and it's definitely NOT biblically sound.

The Bible was given to us by God Almighty as a yardstick to measure these things, as we are told in Ephesians the devil comes to us masquerading as an angel of light, so we are to discern these things, not accept every wind of doctrine that comes our way, or every word or deed that seems to be "Christian", yet when weighed against the Word of God, is found seriously wanting.

As I've stated on another forum:
If a person (in religious circles) is popular and brings in huge crowds, or is a good public speaker and holds the attention of his audience, or is very likeable, or if he is baptized and is a member of a Church, or if he quotes scripture, or has many academic qualifications - it doesn't mean he is speaking the Truth of God's Word.

Only Scripture can be used to verify whether a man and his words/actions are true or of the Spirit of Truth. You can't just turn your soul's salvation over to men by automatically believing everything they tell you or believe the things they do. It's the most dangerous thing you can ever do in your life as it has dire eternal consequences. The Bible says there is condemnation for those who follow another Jesus and another Gospel.

The Bible is God's witness to the Truth, and the witness of the Truth is in God's Word - so if it's not in the Word, it's not of the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth).

The Bible has this to say about deception and the apostate church, which propagates a spirit of falsehood and error, which the Bible calls a whore or harlot and how she deceives people:

Proverbs 7:6-10 (http://www.biblegateway.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NKJV&x=0&y=0&passage=Proverbs+7:6-10) : I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house, In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night: And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

Proverbs 7:22-27 (http://www.biblegateway.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NKJV&x=0&y=0&passage=Proverbs+7:22-27) : With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter. Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth. Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. For she both cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

PROBLEMS WITH THIS "REVIVAL" WHICH PRETTY MUCH FOLLOWS THE SAME CONCEPT AS PROMISE KEEPERS:
It's leader is part of the Charismatic Movement which is a major catalyst in bringing about fellowship and union with the Roman Catholic Church.
They totally reject the commands of Scripture to separate from and warn about false teachers, disobedient brethren, and the world - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14, 15, 1 John 2:15-17.
They don't obey the commands of the Bible to "preach no other doctrine - 1 Timothy 1:3 and also refuse to heed the warning in Galatians 1:6-10, so they become the "blind leading the blind" - Matthew 15:10-14

They make the bold claim of - "Seven solid promises that will change a man’s life forever", yet these 7 promises aren't based solely on the foundation of God's Word, instead they're a mixture of God's Word and the suppositions of Man:

Their emphasis upon self-effort within their program supplants absolute dependence upon the Lord Jesus Christ. The reality is this : Only God can unfailingly keep a promise. And the end result is : Many will face disillusionment and disappointment because of their failure to look to God alone and His promises.

The dangers of this theology:
Advocate unscriptural religious unity at the expense of sound biblical doctrine and practice.
Promote and accept unscriptural charismatic teachings.
Use and approval of psychology and its techniques.
Use and promotion of corrupted versions of the Bible such as the NIV.
Misinterprete and twist key scriptures.
Stressthe importance of Evangelism but at the same time ignore the need of the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ. (another Gospel?)

Bill McCartney, Founder of Promise Keepers, unbiblical take on unity:

Now, I don’t mean to suggest that all cultural differences and denominational distinctives are going to disappear. But what I know is that Almighty God wants to bring Christian men together regardless of their ethnic origin, denominational background, or style of worship. There’s only one criterion for this kind of unity: to love Jesus and be born of the Spirit of God. Can we look one another in the eye -- black, white, red, brown, yellow, Baptist, Presbyterian, Assemblies of God, Catholic [emphasis ours], and so on -- and get together on this common ground: ‘We believe in salvation through Christ alone, and we have made Him the Lord of our lives’? Is that not the central, unifying reality of our existence? And if it is, can we not focus on that and call each other brothers instead of always emphasizing our differences? Men, we have to get together on this!
Compared to Martin & Deidre Bobgan's statement in their booklet titled : Promise Keepers & Psychoheresy:


If men are to come together as men, they would do well to follow what the Bible says rather than Freudian fables, Jungian myths, and other self-serving, man-made psychologies. And they would do well to gather together in the place where they are meant to grow -- in the local church -- not in huge rallies with "mob psychology" or in groups using encounter group techniques and undermining important doctrinal distinctives.

IamBill
May 15th 2008, 02:23 PM
It sounds as though you are putting a "church" before Christ !

can you clarify ?

Roelof
May 16th 2008, 10:11 AM
Since I'm from South Africa and I see there's a "revival" taking hold under the auspices of the man of whose life has been encompassed in a film titled "Faith Like Potatoes", I would like to warn people about False Prophets in the end times we currently are living in.

Firstly, this is a religious movie - not a Christian movie and it's definitely NOT biblically sound.




I attended the preaching of Angus Bucham in Vanderbijlpark. He testified a lot and spoke purely from the Bible. He said that South Africa is already in a revival and that Jesus is alive. The greatest sin is unbelieve and not murder. I regard him as a pure child of God.

Die Filadelfieer
May 16th 2008, 11:31 AM
KraggaKamma,

Can you provide proof for anything that you said in your post ?

(Keeping in mind that there is a lot of folks on the board that was actually at one of these meetings that you speak of )

KraggaKamma
May 16th 2008, 12:23 PM
It sounds as though you are putting a "church" before Christ !

can you clarify ?Can you please be more specific and note the parts of my post where you say I am putting the church before Christ, that way I can answer your question more correctly. Thanks.

I'm actually describing the mixture of this theology (Promise Keepers) and it's definitely not my intention to put the church before Christ at all, so I'm rather surprised at your comment.

Promise Keepers theology is a "hybrid" because it mixes Christianity and Psychology - and its very subtle. If you look at Psychology it is anti-Christian because it says that man's problem isn't due to sin and a fallen nature, but due to bad choices in life or his upbringing or circumstances. Psychology was founded by atheists, and the Bible tells us that an atheist is the biggest fool there is. Catholocism is a hybrid as well, as it combines both Christianity and Paganism. Anything that is extra-biblical and is brought into Christianity = mixture. The Bible calls these things the doctrine of demons. The Bible tells us to worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

Proof that God hates a mixture:
Zephaniah 1:4-5
Revelation 2:12-17

"You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idils and by committing sexual immorality. Likewise you also have those who hold to the teachings of the Nicolaitans".

Throughout the Bible God talks of the sin of adultery and fornication which means both in a physical and spiritual sense. Spiritual adultery and fornication is when Christians abandon God to go after other gods, or mix in pagan or non-Christian practices with Biblical doctrines, which brings us to Psychology that is mixed in with Promise Keepers, upon which "Faith Like Potatoes" is based. So what exactly is wrong with Psychology then?

First of all, try and find the word "sin" in any Psychology dictionary or book. I can tell you now you won't find it, as it isn't recognized by it's proponents and founders.

Psychology is rooted in atheistic beliefs. Sigmund Freud was an atheist, who by the way traced all psychological problems back to sexual issues. He also drew inspiration from another atheist, Charles Darwin (the father of evolution), and so explained mankind's behaviour in evolutionary terms.

Analysis of some of the Promises put forward by Promise Keepers:

Promise 2 - A man and his mentors: A Promise Keeper is committed to pursuing vital relationships with a few other men, understanding that he needs brothers to help him keep his promises.

This is based upon psychological theory. Godly men can help one another though - point taken, but to encourage a false notion that men can't make it on their own in this day and age and expect Promise Keepers to keep them on the straight and narrow is belittling God's power and not believing in Him or His promises - 2 Peter 1:3-4. The Bible warns us about putting our trust in men - Isaiah 2:22 says "Cease ye from an, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted for?" and Jeremiah 17:5 says "Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord".

Promise 6 - A man and his brothers: A Promise Keeper is committed to reaching beyond any racial and denominational barriers to demonstrate the power of biblical unity.

This promises mixes truth with error (mixture). Reaching beyond racial boundaries however, is scriptural, but reaching beyond denominational barriers defies God's commands, as it's an unbiblical unity which is made mention of in 2 Peter 2:1-3.

Promise 7 - A man and his world: A Promise Keeper is committed to influencing his world, being obedient to the Great Commandment (see Mark 12:30, 31) and the Great Commission (see Matthew 28:19, 20).

The Great Commandment referred to in Mark 12:30-31 is God's commandment to love God and our neighbour, but here they present a faulty understanding of GENUINE christian love whereby reconciliation with a DISOBEDIENT brother is insisted upon. The Bible tells us that we are to SEPARATE from disobedient brothers/sisters - 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14, 15.

The reason why we are to separate from disobedient brethren is to preserve a pure church - as well as for the disobedient brother/sister's spiritual welfare - so they can be disciplined, hopefully see their error and amend their ways.

The Great Commission they refer to in Matthew 28:19-20 involves the preaching of the Gospel, as well as teaching SOUND BIBLICAL DOCTRINE to those who believe - "....to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you". Yet, they don't seem to care what church or what doctrinal creed is embraced - but it does matter to God, and He warns against this grievious error in Acts 20:17-32 - "all the counsel of God". The Bible warns us against ravenous wolves not sparing the flock who arise from WITHIN the church, who speak "perverse things" and "draw away disciples after them".

They state:

The conferences are designed for specific men’s issues in the context of an all-male setting. We have discovered that men are more apt to hear and receive the full instruction of the sessions when they are not inhibited by concern for a woman’s responses. One of the primary goals of the conference is to deepen the commitment of men to respect and honor women.The questions we have to ask ourselves in this instance is : will they give these men the entire counsel of God, or a modified, changed, misleading version? As they not only have a compromising new evangelism, but charismatic error and ecumenical liberalism as well.

For more proof: The following link provides access to websites which discuss Promise Keeper's Catholic connection, interfaith and ecumenism, as well as the emphasis they put on Church growth:
http://www.google.com/custom?q=promise+keepers&sa=Google+Search&cof=L%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.deceptioninthechurch.com% 2Fimg0.gif%3BAH%3Acenter%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.de ceptioninthechurch.com%2F%3BAWFID%3Aa5fb401f0d8ee3 f3%3B&domains=deceptioninthechurch.com%3Bbanner.org.uk%3 Bdiscernment.org%3Bsliceoflaodicea.com%3Bmoriel.or g%3Bwww.geocities.com%2FHeartland%2FPlains%2F4948% 2F%3Bthebereancall.org%3Bdiscernment-ministries.com%3Bwww.erwm.html%3Bpfo.org%3Bletusre ason.org%3Bchristian-witness.org%3Bpowertostand.org%3Bapologeticsindex. org%3Bsvchapel.org%3Bwww.lighthousetrails.com%3Bww w.ncinter.net%2F%257eejt%2F%3Bpro-gospel.org%3Bchristianresearchservice.com&sitesearch=deceptioninthechurch.com

But will anyone listen? The pressure to follow the crowd and silence the voice of reproof is growing daily. I pray God opens your eyes if you're involved in this movement.

Blessings,
Audrey

Brother Mark
May 16th 2008, 12:38 PM
Biblical psychology...

Prov 23:7

7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
KJV

As one thinks in his heart, so is he.

John 8:32

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
KJV

Replace the lies in our heart with the truth and we can be set free. Paul said it this way...

Rom 12:1-2

12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
KJV

I am always amazed when folks just want to throw psychology out the window. Is it polluted by the world? Oh yea. But God is the Great Counselor.

psy·chol·o·gy http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/P08/P0896700) Audio Help (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/audio.html) /saɪˈkɒlhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngdʒi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahy-kol-uh-jee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural -gies. 1.the science of the mind or of mental states and processes.


God wants us to deal with our mental state and processes. There are countless scriptures on taking thoughts captive and dealing with our thought life and other things.

Sin often starts in the mind as it did with Eve, and works it way to the heart as it did with Adam. When a lie is in us, we need to get it out. While modern psychology doesn't do so well with getting the truth into someone, there is such a thing as scriptural psychology. We just call it preaching.

KraggaKamma
May 16th 2008, 01:18 PM
Brother Mark,
The term "Christian psychology" is a complete contradiction - there is no such thing. The way to understand the Bible is through proper exegesis and hermeneutics - scripture always confirms scripture, God doesn't contradict Himself, and we have to read whole verses, not half verses for them to make sense. So let's look at the scripture you posted under "Biblical psychology", in their proper context, shall we:

This is exactly what I was speaking of in my previous post:
Proverbs 23:6-8
Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats: 7For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. 8The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
In other words we are not to covet or desire the possessions of an evil man (unbeliever) or anyone for that matter - because coveting makes us covetors - which is against God's commandments. Nor are we to fellowship with disobedient brothers and sisters - it goes against Almighty God's commandment.

John 8:31-33
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." 33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

Jesus is saying that the truth is holding onto His teachings - exactly the point of was trying to get across in my previous post - and it's this that will set you free. Yet the Jews of the time didn't understand what He was trying to say to them.

Brother Mark, this isn't psychology - it's what is known as GOD'S TRUTH.

Brother Mark wrote:

God wants us to deal with our mental state and processes. There are countless scriptures on taking thoughts captive and dealing with our thought life and other things.

Sin often starts in the mind as it did with Eve, and works it way to the heart as it did with Adam. When a lie is in us, we need to get it out. While modern psychology doesn't do so well with getting the truth into someone, there is such a thing as scriptural psychology. We just call it preaching.Actually God wants us to be obedient to His teachings and commandments - He'll deal with our sin or "mental state and processes" as you kindly put it. When a lie is in us He'll convinct us of it, after all, we're still sinners - we're trapped in a corrupt body, in a corrupt world. Sin starts with our fallen nature - in our heart - and God knows our heart - it's evil. Adam and Eve were subtly deceived by Satan- and that's unfortunately the way the devil is still deceiving millions of people today - subtly, because they're not grounded in God's Word, sadly they follow every wind of doctrine that comes along.

psy-chol-o-gy n. 1. a) the science dealing with the mind and with mental and emotional processes.

That makes it the very antithesis of the eternal Word of God. Because it's man's way of curing sin.

Psalm 1:1 states, "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful."




Blessings,
Audrey

Eaglenester
May 16th 2008, 01:37 PM
Psychology is godless man's way of trying to understand and comprehend the workings on the mind.

It fails to take into account sin and the fallen state of a man.

It denies the ability of Yahweh to "supernaturally" give a person a transformed nature, a renewed heart, and the means to renew one thinking and mind.

......

Christian psychology is trying to accomplish things by man's means rather than by Elohim's.

It's a bringing man's ways and understandings into the Spiritual realm - rather than bringing Yahshua, with His Truth and Dunamis Holy Spirit Power, into man's realm.

Brother Mark
May 16th 2008, 01:37 PM
Brother Mark, this isn't psychology - it's what is known as GOD'S TRUTH.

Proper psychology will deal only in God's truth. The renewing of the mind and emotions is a wonderful part of scripture.



Actually God wants us to be obedient to His teachings and commandments - He'll deal with our sin or "mental state and processes" as you kindly put it. When a lie is in us He'll convinct us of it, after all, we're still sinners - we're trapped in a corrupt body, in a corrupt world. Sin starts with our fallen nature - in our heart - and God knows our heart - it's evil. Adam and Eve were subtly deceived by Satan- and that's unfortunately the way the devil is still deceiving millions of people today - subtly, because they're not grounded in God's Word, sadly they follow every wind of doctrine that they hear.

Blessings,
Audrey


What God wants is for us to trust him. That's where it all starts. That then leads to obedience and so forth until we are transformed into the image of His Son. And how does this transformation take place?

Rom 12:1-2

12 I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
NASB

By the renewing of our mind. Psychology has stumbled upon many truths in scripture through shear study of mankind and how we function. However, without Jesus, psychology is of no use or help. But the principles of thinking differently are found rooted deep in scripture. That is what many psychologist try to deal with. However, without Christ, there can be no real change of the inside even if the mind is changed.

IamBill
May 16th 2008, 01:43 PM
It sounds as though you are putting a "church" before Christ !

can you clarify ?

Can you please be more specific and note the parts of my post where you say I am putting the church before Christ, that way I can answer your question more correctly. Thanks.

I'm actually describing the mixture of this theology (Promise Keepers) and it's definitely not my intention to put the church before Christ at all, so I'm rather surprised at your comment.
It was that mixture which caused me to ask I made no accusations :)


But will anyone listen? The pressure to follow the crowd and silence the voice of reproof is growing daily. I pray God opens your eyes if you're involved in this movement.

Blessings,
Audrey

Trust God, I am not involved in any man's "movements".

With all that cleared up, I shall continue reading.
thanks

KraggaKamma
May 16th 2008, 02:01 PM
It was that mixture which caused me to ask I made no accusations :)

Cool, no problem, just wanted to know what to make clear and what not to make clear. Glad to hear you aren't part of any men's movements. :kiss:

KraggaKamma
May 16th 2008, 02:18 PM
Proper psychology will deal only in God's truth. The renewing of the mind and emotions is a wonderful part of scripture.So what is "proper psychology then" - please define it, and provide proof.


What God wants is for us to trust him. That's where it all starts. That then leads to obedience and so forth until we are transformed into the image of His Son. And how does this transformation take place?

We can't obey anyone if we don't trust them, unless we're forced to - but God doesn't force anyone, nor can we obey anyone if we don't love them or respect them - we'll try, but it will be done half-heartedly. Trust comes when we initially accept Him as our Saviour - otherwise how could we accept Him as our Saviour? Our transformation on this earth will never be complete, as I stated earlier, as the flesh is warring against the spirit . We'll only be complete in Him once we receive our resurrected bodies. Anyone claiming to be perfect on this earth is into New Age hocus pocus - otherwise known as self-righteousness. It is never our righteousness - but His, whereby we boast.

Romans 12:1-2
12 I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Please note - it says "renewing" and not "renewal" (instantaneous) - meaning it's an ongoing process throughout our Christian walk. Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice, acceptable to God means obeying His commandments not to partake in sexual immorality of any kind, nor being part of the world - which means dressing like them, looking like them, behaving like them and thinking like them - we are in this world, not a part of it. God's will is good and acceptable and perfect - and we have to reflect it - by following His commands, i.e., obedience.


By the renewing of our mind. Psychology has stumbled upon many truths in scripture through shear study of mankind and how we function. However, without Jesus, psychology is of no use or help. But the principles of thinking differently are found rooted deep in scripture. That is what many psychologist try to deal with. However, without Christ, there can be no real change of the inside even if the mind is changed.

I can't see how anything that was discovered by an atheist and who conveniently "stumbled" upon the many truths of scripture through shear (sheer) study of mankind and how we function can be a Biblical truth? This doesn't make any sense. Can you please provide proof of this? As this is clearly a case of reinventing the wheel because we have the Bible that says that God is the only One who knows Man's heart? And by the way, nothing in this life is coincidence or is "stumbled" upon - Psychology was created by the devil to deceive mankind, it's all part of the apostasy. Gods will be done - and all things on this earth are working towards that - as God allows it.


That is what many psychologist try to deal with.Please provide proof of this.

My Bible tells me that anything that has it's roots in atheism, paganism or the occult isn't from God period, and that I shouldn't tamper with it, because nothing good can come of it. Evil cannot birth good.

Blessings,
Audrey

Brother Mark
May 16th 2008, 02:26 PM
My Bible tells me that anything that has it's roots in atheism, paganism or the occult isn't from God period and that I shouldn't tamper with it, because nothing good can come of it. Evil cannot birth good.

Blessings,
Audrey

When Satan tempted Eve, was part of God's word in it? Oh yea. We don't throw that away because Satan used it. What we do is use God's word without the lies. Satan tried to use it with lies against Eve and again against Christ and against all of us.

God wishes for us to think differently. That's what repentance is all about. Atheistic psychology is all about thinking differently without God is from the devil. Look at the psychology definition I gave above. It's just a study of the mind. Just as medicine is a study of the body. What the atheist have tried to do as they have learned more about the mind is fix it with simple thought replacement. That works fine with Jesus at it's core for it is what he tells us to do. But it doesn't work at all without Jesus.

Some psychologist will say change your behavior and this will change your thoughts. Other say change your thoughts and your behavior will change. Jesus says to do both all the while focusing on Him.

KraggaKamma
May 16th 2008, 02:27 PM
Proper psychology will deal only in God's truth. The renewing of the mind and emotions is a wonderful part of scripture.So what is "proper psychology then" - please define it, and provide proof.


What God wants is for us to trust him. That's where it all starts. That then leads to obedience and so forth until we are transformed into the image of His Son. And how does this transformation take place?

We can't obey anyone if we don't trust them, unless we're forced to - but God doesn't force anyone, nor can we obey anyone if we don't love them or respect them - we'll try, but it will be done half-heartedly. Trust comes when we initially accept Him as our Saviour - otherwise how could we accept Him as our Saviour? Our transformation on this earth will never be complete, as I stated earlier, as the flesh is warring against the spirit . We'll only be complete in Him once we receive our resurrected bodies. Anyone claiming to be perfect on this earth is into New Age hocus pocus - otherwise known as self-righteousness. It is never our righteousness - but His, whereby we boast.

Romans 12:1-2
12 I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Please note - it says "renewing" and not "renewal" (instantaneous) - meaning it's an ongoing process throughout our Christian walk. Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice, acceptable to God means obeying His commandments not to partake in sexual immorality of any kind, nor being part of the world - which means dressing like them, looking like them, behaving like them and thinking like them - we are in this world, not a part of it. God's will is good and acceptable and perfect - and we have to reflect it - by following His commands, i.e., obedience.


By the renewing of our mind. Psychology has stumbled upon many truths in scripture through shear study of mankind and how we function. However, without Jesus, psychology is of no use or help. But the principles of thinking differently are found rooted deep in scripture. That is what many psychologist try to deal with. However, without Christ, there can be no real change of the inside even if the mind is changed.

I can't see how anything that was discovered by an atheist and who conveniently "stumbled" upon the many truths of scripture through shear (sheer) study of mankind and how we function can be a Biblical truth? This doesn't make any sense. Can you please provide proof of this? As this is clearly a case of reinventing the wheel because we have the Bible that says that God is the only One who knows Man's heart? And by the way, nothing in this life is coincidence or is "stumbled" upon - Psychology was created by the devil to deceive mankind, it's all part of the apostasy. Gods will be done - and all things on this earth are working towards that - as God allows it.


That is what many psychologist try to deal with.Please provide proof of this.

My Bible tells me that anything that has it's roots in atheism, paganism or the occult isn't from God period, and that I shouldn't tamper with it, because nothing good can come of it. Evil cannot birth good. The devil cannot speak the truth.

Blessings,
Audrey

VerticalReality
May 16th 2008, 03:14 PM
I see absolutely nothing wrong or unbiblical about the quote from Bill McCartney above. He's speaking out about division through denominational affiliation. I, too, believe that denominational allegiance can be a hinderance to the unity of the body of Christ. What is unbiblical about his comment?

IamBill
May 16th 2008, 04:00 PM
When Satan tempted Eve, was part of God's word in it? Oh yea. We don't throw that away because Satan used it. What we do is use God's word without the lies. Satan tried to use it with lies against Eve and again against Christ and against all of us.

True, but strangely, most focus on the part of God's word that satan twisted, can't even see the lie hidden there. ....and "It" is preached as truth!
"Knowledge of good and evil" was the NAME of the tree
"become like Gods KNOWING" were satans words! Not God's


God wishes for us to think differently. That's what repentance is all about. Atheistic psychology is all about thinking differently without God is from the devil. Look at the psychology definition I gave above. It's just a study of the mind. Just as medicine is a study of the body. What the atheist have tried to do as they have learned more about the mind is fix it with simple thought replacement. That works fine with Jesus at it's core for it is what he tells us to do. But it doesn't work at all without Jesus.

Some psychologist will say change your behavior and this will change your thoughts. Other say change your thoughts and your behavior will change. Jesus says to do both all the while focusing on Him.
another look at the word -
psychology comes from the Greek word 'psycho', derived from the Greek word 'psyche' meaning - Soul or Self (psychology) or Mind
The Greek word 'psyche' was also the name of a Greek god, "psyche" and "eros" were Greek mythology lovers !!! :hmm:
psyche also had a son , guess who ? -- Cupid

It boils down to "love of the Ego".

And many many psychologists of today will have you think that a belief in a God is nothing more that a safe-house created within a delusional mind.
:P

IamBill
May 16th 2008, 04:14 PM
I see absolutely nothing wrong or unbiblical about the quote from Bill McCartney above. He's speaking out about division through denominational affiliation. I, too, believe that denominational allegiance can be a hinderance to the unity of the body of Christ. What is unbiblical about his comment?

:lol: that was the exact part that threw me as well

But she was just pointing out the mixture/contradiction within what they teach ?
....I think !

KraggaKamma
May 17th 2008, 06:35 AM
I see absolutely nothing wrong or unbiblical about the quote from Bill McCartney above. He's speaking out about division through denominational affiliation. I, too, believe that denominational allegiance can be a hinderance to the unity of the body of Christ. What is unbiblical about his comment?That's exactly the point I'm trying to make - we see nothing wrong with it. Man sees nothing wrong with a lot of things, that's why we are commanded by God to test all things, and we need to be obedient, for our own good.

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 says :

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

As I was saying, his comment might appear to be good to us - but does it glorify God - is it God's will - is it being obedient to God? And as I explained beforehand - his comment is wrong because it goes against scripture period and I gave the reasons why - does anyone see it and heed it?

Brother Mark and others here:
If we have been saved and have the Holy Spirit who is our Counselor, Helper and Teacher - why would we need psychology? Why would we need Promise Keepers? In fact, why would we need any man-made theory, theology or teaching to keep us on the straight and narrow? And why do we constantly need to follow "new things" or new doctrines? Why do we compromise and water down the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Is Jesus not enough? Is His Word not enough?

If we raise up and defend anything above and beyond God and His Word, like psychology for instance, it becomes an idol because the Bible states in Romans 6:16 - that which we obey, we are slaves to - in other words it is our master which flies in the face of the first commandment that we are to love God with all our heart and not having any other gods before Him.

God is our one and only Counselor as stated in Job 12:12, Job 42:3, Proverbs 8:14, Isaiah 28:29, Jeremiah 32:19, 1 Corinthians 2:16, 1 Corinthians 4:14, Ephesians 1:11, Ephesians 6:4, Psalm 119:24, Isaiah 9:6.

Titus 3:10 states:
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Now psychology and Promise Keepers will never tell you that and you know why? Because it doesn't appeal to the flesh and make us feel good about ourselves, like most of these questionable movements do. They'll bog you down with trying to keep promises you can't keep (not over a long period of time anyhow), and you'll put all your energy and thought into that, whereas you should be spending that time reading the Word daily and being built up in the things of God and getting to know His nature and His will.

Does anyone here know that Jesus will be returning to earth in wrath? Does anyone have the fear of God in them? Because if they did - they wouldn't be running after questionable teachings, assigning man-made atheist theories to God's Word and watering it down, so as to please/appease the flesh.

Here's what's wrong with what Bill McCartney said:


Now, I don’t mean to suggest that all cultural differences and denominational distinctives are going to disappear. But what I know is that Almighty God wants to bring Christian men together regardless of their ethnic origin, denominational background, or style of worship. There’s only one criterion for this kind of unity: to love Jesus and be born of the Spirit of God. Can we look one another in the eye -- black, white, red, brown, yellow, Baptist, Presbyterian, Assemblies of God, Catholic, and so on -- and get together on this common ground: ‘We believe in salvation through Christ alone, and we have made Him the Lord of our lives’? Is that not the central, unifying reality of our existence? And if it is, can we not focus on that and call each other brothers instead of always emphasizing our differences? Men, we have to get together on this!Can't anyone see how he's contradicting himself?

First he states the necessity of believing in salvation through Christ alone - no problem there. But in the very next breath he contradicts that by stating that we should include Roman Catholics as "brothers", in spite of the fact that they do not believe in salvation through Jesus Christ alone and that they pray to Mary, add sacraments and do good works - all as REQUIREMENTS FOR SALVATION. Apart from the Catholics - what about those denominations like the Anglicans and the Methodists who have homosexual clergy and laity - are we to fellowship with them to? I think not. God hates homosexuality. And this is where Titus 3:10 comes into effect.

Is anyone here aware that the Bible teaches a clear Doctrine of Separation? That true believers must separate from disobedient brethren, unbelievers, heretics, apostates, etc? If anyone wants Biblical proof of this, please ask and I will provide it.

IAMBILL:
As you said "Guess who?" - Cupid. If you research psychology you'll notice that it's even connected to Astrology! It's really evil.


It boils down to "love of the Ego". Yep. Love of self - love of the flesh. Totally unscriptural.

To try and say that God's Word consists of psychology (and so water it down), is wrong because God's Word reaches divinely to us in love so that we can become one with Christ in eternity - to be reconciled to Him and have eternal life and rule with Him during the Millennium.


When Satan tempted Eve, was part of God's word in it? Oh yea. We don't throw that away because Satan used it. What we do is use God's word without the lies. Satan tried to use it with lies against Eve and again against Christ and against all of us.I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here, but yes, Satan did quote God's word - only He twisted it - very subtly though, that's why Eve fell for it. Actually we have to use God's entire Word - His entire Counsel as I previously noted - in Truth, employing the correct exegesis and hermeneutics (as I stated previously). This is Biblical hermeneutics : 2 Timothy 2:15 - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Example - a psalm should often be interpreted differently than a prophecy. A proverb should be understood and applied differently from a law. This is the purpose of biblical hermeneutics - to help us to know how to interpret, understand, and apply the Bible.


God wishes for us to think differently. That's what repentance is all about. Atheistic psychology is all about thinking differently without God is from the devil. Look at the psychology definition I gave above. It's just a study of the mind. Just as medicine is a study of the body. What the atheist have tried to do as they have learned more about the mind is fix it with simple thought replacement. That works fine with Jesus at it's core for it is what he tells us to do. But it doesn't work at all without Jesus.God wishes for us to obey Him and repentence is a change of mind when we accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour through faith when we realize we are sinners in need of a Saviour. We are saved by Grace alone - not works.


Satan tried to use it with lies against Eve and again against Christ and against all of us.He didn't try use it - he did use. And it's still happening today, in the Church and those who have Christian ministries. And the reason why Satan uses (and twists) Scripture - is because gullible Christians fall for it hook, line and sinker and don't test it against the actual Word of God in the correct context. They think because it is uttered out of the mouth of a Pastor, Prophet, so-called Apostle, etc, standing behind a pulpit - it must be "God's Word". So what's the difference between that and what Satan did - there is no difference - it's the same old trick and it works very well.


Some psychologist will say change your behavior and this will change your thoughts. Other say change your thoughts and your behavior will change. Jesus says to do both all the while focusing on Him.John 14:15 : If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Actually what psychologists say and what happens in reality are two different things. I don't need a psychologist to tell me I'm a sinner. Jesus says to obey His commands. When one tries to change their own thoughts and behaviour - it becomes salvation by works, which isn't Biblical, because it states : 2 Peter 1:1 and 1 Corinthians 1:30 and 1 Philippians 3:9:

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to hetm that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption

And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

------

2 Timothy 3:13
But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Blessings,
Audrey

Eaglenester
May 17th 2008, 12:29 PM
KEEP SPEAKING IT Sister Audrey.

A big AMEN
HALLELU YAH
:pp

:hug:

Friend of Jesus
May 17th 2008, 05:26 PM
I really don't understand the logic of humans:

They pray for a revival, seeking for more of Jesus.

And then when he comes and says "look here I am, come and recieve my blessing" - people say "no why should I listen to you this is clearly the work of the devil"

The same thing is happening with the revival in Florida, and no doubt in a little while- people will be saying the same things about the revival in England.

What we SHOULD be doing is praising God for his grace in sending revival and transforming thousands of lives.

IamBill
May 17th 2008, 05:56 PM
I really don't understand the logic of humans:

They pray for a revival, seeking for more of Jesus.

And then when he comes and says "look here I am, come and recieve my blessing" - people say "no why should I listen to you this is clearly the work of the devil"

The same thing is happening with the revival in Florida, and no doubt in a little while- people will be saying the same things about the revival in England.

What we SHOULD be doing is praising God for his grace in sending revival and transforming thousands of lives.

Mr 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Friend of Jesus
May 17th 2008, 08:15 PM
You're taking that verse out of perspective- that is supposed to be referring to Jesus' secondcoming at the end of the world- not revival

amazzin
May 17th 2008, 08:19 PM
.......people will be saying the same things about the revival in England.....

What do you mean by revival in England? Where is it happening?

If needed you can start a new thread to discuss this.

Friend of Jesus
May 17th 2008, 08:34 PM
There have been prophesies about it in my own church since the beginning of the year- Although we couldn't be sure of what they meant until now.

My Pastor went to the Lakeland revival (all disputes aside for the moment about Todd) and came back completely loaded with the Spirit.

Our first prayer meeting when he got back was Bursting with the Holy Spirit's work- Many people were healed, many people were slain in the Spirit, practically everyone was praising God at the top of their voice in tongues and everyone was bought to a place in worship where we can give our all (and yes the word was preached, just for the reference).

It has been a week since then- so while we are only just starting, I can tell this will be big. There are reports of similar meetings in many churches over the country.

I do not want to start a thread on it because:

- People will call it the work of the devil like every other revival recently
- We have only just got started and there is little to report yet other than what I have just said
- People will no doubt find every bit of background on my Pastor and prove that he is without a doubt a deciever of the devil

But in all seriousness, this is transforming mine and many other people's lives from being a Christian that is full of the Spirit, to one that is Overflowing with the Spirit.

IamBill
May 17th 2008, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Friend of Jesus
I really don't understand the logic of humans:

They pray for a revival, seeking for more of Jesus.

And then when he comes and says "look here I am, come and recieve my blessing" - people say "no why should I listen to you this is clearly the work of the devil"
Mr 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.


You're taking that verse out of perspective- that is supposed to be referring to Jesus' secondcoming at the end of the world- not revival

and says "look here I am, come and recieve my blessing"
Nor is a revival - "Jesus' second coming" !
:hmm:

VerticalReality
May 17th 2008, 10:46 PM
That's exactly the point I'm trying to make - we see nothing wrong with it. Man sees nothing wrong with a lot of things, that's why we are commanded by God to test all things, and we need to be obedient, for our own good.

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 says :

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

As I was saying, his comment might appear to be good to us - but does it glorify God - is it God's will - is it being obedient to God? And as I explained beforehand - his comment is wrong because it goes against scripture period and I gave the reasons why - does anyone see it and heed it?

Is it God's will for Christians to be unified? Yes . . . yes it is.

IamBill
May 18th 2008, 12:02 AM
Is it God's will for Christians to be unified? Yes . . . yes it is.

I wholeheartedly agree VR.

But do you think MAN is going to achieve this ? I mean, look at the division in a few hundred people on this board alone.
Could you ever agree with how RCC leads people ?

Or ever admit -"Man(or Mary) can stand in Jesus' place and intercede" ?

I could not do that.

Can we look one another in the eye -- black, white, red, brown, yellow, Baptist, Presbyterian, Assemblies of God, Catholic, and so on --
""and so on"" ???? What is the "and so on" ?
as wonderful as it sounds, it's is a pipedream that would never hold if it ever formed.
:dunno:

VerticalReality
May 18th 2008, 12:27 AM
I wholeheartedly agree VR.

But do you think MAN is going to achieve this ? I mean, look at the division in a few hundred people on this board alone.
Could you ever agree with how RCC leads people ?

Or ever admit -"Man(or Mary) can stand in Jesus' place and intercede" ?

I could not do that.

""and so on"" ???? What is the "and so on" ?
as wonderful as it sounds, it's is a pipedream that would never hold if it ever formed.
:dunno:

Regardless of whether it's going to be achieved or not is really beside the point, IMO. That doesn't change the fact that it is still the goal we should have and aspire to. I can't go out and expect to save everyone either, but I should aspire to preach to as many as possible.

If I were to make this statement . . .

"We should be about going out and preaching the gospel to all men and setting all who are held captive free . . . "

. . . would the fact that all men are not going to be preached to and set free make my comment unbiblical and deserving of the unnecessary bashing of heresy hunters?

I'll tell you something right now . . .

If people would spend more time preaching the gospel and setting the captive free as they do whining about other preachers we could make a tremendous impact on this world. Sometimes I think heresy hunters are just as much a part of the problem as false teachers.

There's no telling how many people I see get on these forums every single day complaining about how bad this and that is when the sad reality of it is that they themselves haven't really done one single thing to help anyone or ease the suffering of the lost.

As much as I can find wrong in many preachers I see on T.V. and some of the things they teach at least they are actually out there among the lost and hurting trying to do something. Sure, they may not be perfect and have everything all figured out. But they aren't sitting around being a partaker of the problem rather than the solution.

There's no telling what might happen if all the perfect people on this message forum would actually get out from behind their computers and go out amongst those who are truly hurting and give them these great truths they keep complaining all these other preachers aren't giving.

IamBill
May 18th 2008, 01:19 AM
I'll tell you something right now . . .

If people would spend more time preaching the gospel and setting the captive free as they do whining about other preachers we could make a tremendous impact on this world. Sometimes I think heresy hunters are just as much a part of the problem as false teachers.

There's no telling how many people I see get on these forums every single day complaining about how bad this and that is when the sad reality of it is that they themselves haven't really done one single thing to help anyone or ease the suffering of the lost.

As much as I can find wrong in many preachers I see on T.V. and some of the things they teach at least they are actually out there among the lost and hurting trying to do something. Sure, they may not be perfect and have everything all figured out. But they aren't sitting around being a partaker of the problem rather than the solution.

There's no telling what might happen if all the perfect people on this message forum would actually get out from behind their computers and go out amongst those who are truly hurting and give them these great truths they keep complaining all these other preachers aren't giving.

nope, I fully understand, and yes "here" there is allot of "preaching to the found" ...but not totally, and that one mistake can be the ultimate mistake.
Spreading half truth is as bad or worse than none at all.
But nor is the point "what happens on this forum"



Regardless of whether it's going to be achieved or not is really beside the point, IMO. That doesn't change the fact that it is still the goal we should have and aspire to. I can't go out and expect to save everyone either, but I should aspire to preach to as many as possible.

If I were to make this statement . . .

"We should be about going out and preaching the gospel to all men and setting all who are held captive free . . . "

. . . would the fact that all men are not going to be preached to and set free make my comment unbiblical and deserving of the unnecessary bashing of heresy hunters?
(sorry to flip your post)
Again, I agree, but also is the very reason some "unification religion" canNOT happen, IS NOT going to work.
The "Christians" cannot and will never denounce Christ as the ONLY WAY, can't you see how we will be the outcast's of that type system ?
will you allow someone to shut you up ? no-way right :)
Most Any other beliefs can say, "ok!, I call Him this, you call him that, all is cool, we all go to heaven"

It's not happening brother, Christians will be nothing but trouble to the authority of such a system. Isn't this ringing a bell somewhere in your mind ? heart ?
.

VerticalReality
May 18th 2008, 01:41 AM
Spreading half truth is as bad or worse than none at all.

Problem is, show me one person preaching "full truth" because I guarantee you aren't going to find them and that would include the author of this very thread. I'm amazed at how quick folks are to bash other preachers about how they aren't preaching truth when the real truth of the matter is that nobody preaches full truth. That's just a part of being imperfect. You have some folks who believe you have to be baptized to be saved. You have some folks who believe you have to keep the Saturday Sabbath or you're being disobedient. You have some who feel the gifts of the Spirit have passed away. You have some who believe they are still active. You have some folks who believe in a literal six day creation. You have some that believe in an old earth. The list could go on and on and on, and ain't all of them right. The longer we keep holding human beings to the standard of Jesus the more disappointed we are going to be because there ain't no more like Him and there never will be until He returns a second time. Unless someone is teaching outright lies that are leading people into bondage then we need to lighten up a little bit and quit persecuting our own. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that quote that the original poster referenced. Nothing whatsoever. Yet, for some reason everyone is ranting about it like the guy was denying our Lord.



(sorry to flip your post)
Again, I agree, but also is the very reason some "unification religion" canNOT happen, IS NOT going to work.
The "Christians" cannot and will never denounce Christ as the ONLY WAY, can't you see how we will be the outcast's of that type system ?
will you allow someone to shut you up ? no-way right :)
Most Any other beliefs can say, "ok!, I call Him this, you call him that, all is cool, we all go to heaven"


Problem is this, though . . .

Bill McCartney wasn't promoting unity among all religions in that quote, and one would REALLY have to be reaching in order to squeeze that nonsense in there. In fact, I would say that if a person was trying to squeeze that in there then that is the real lie and not what McCartney was saying.


It's not happening brother, Christians will be nothing but trouble to the authority of such a system. Isn't this ringing a bell somewhere in your mind ? heart ?

I know perfectly what you're saying. However, this one system sort of thing wasn't anywhere in his quote. That's simply putting something in there that the man just flatout didn't say. That's one of the biggest problems I see with heresy hunting today. Most of these folks just take snippets of quotes here and there and then distort them and make them out to be something they never were.

mikebr
May 18th 2008, 01:41 AM
I see absolutely nothing wrong or unbiblical about the quote from Bill McCartney above. He's speaking out about division through denominational affiliation. I, too, believe that denominational allegiance can be a hinderance to the unity of the body of Christ. What is unbiblical about his comment?

I agree and would add that the Lord really used Promise Keepers and it had a radical and profound affect on me.

IamBill
May 18th 2008, 02:34 AM
Ok then, and If you have read all my posts on this OP, you know I was struck by the very same quote, I adhere to No system, My 'denomination' is the Bible and Holy Spirit. PERIOD.
Therefore I know nothing in depth of what "THIS" movement is about or what is or is Not underlying within it. You are preaching to the found (literally) ;)

But within the context of the OP, I can indeed see (and hope you can)where the Psychological/peace -unity problem lay. after all, why are we not all RC this day and age, why are there so many denominations, why cant people fully agree within a single denomination ...those are not questions, they are facts of our(mans) nature, and watered down truth is not Truth

[QUOTE=VerticalReality;1642830]
Problem is this, though . . .
Bill McCartney wasn't promoting unity among all religions in that quote, and one would REALLY have to be reaching in order to squeeze that nonsense in there. In fact, I would say that if a person was trying to squeeze that in there then that is the real lie and not what McCartney was saying.


There’s only one criterion for this kind of unity: to love Jesus and be born of the Spirit of God.
Baptist, Presbyterian, Assemblies of God, Catholic, and so on --
UNITY!

""to love Jesus and be born of the Spirit of God""
the whole world is not with us on that one, nor ever will be before Christ himself returns, Man cannot lead Man. The Bible has an ending for a reason- That is how it ends !

I'll bow out until KraggaKamma clarifies things, I have no argument with you.
:)

Friend of Jesus
May 18th 2008, 08:01 AM
Mr 13:21
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.



and says "look here I am, come and recieve my blessing"
Nor is a revival - "Jesus' second coming" !
:hmm:


Ok, I won't argue with you any more about the revival- because you're clearly set in your frame of mind. But I do want to put that verse in proper context.

I know the revival is not Jesus' second coming- I never said it was. That verse is supposed to refer to Jesus' second coming and how many people will say "look the end is near", even though it isn't.

The revival is neither here nor there- it is not Jesus' second coming and it is not pretending to be. So your use of that verse in this discussion is pointless

CFJ
May 18th 2008, 10:10 AM
Since I'm from South Africa and I see there's a "revival" taking hold under the auspices of the man of whose life has been encompassed in a film titled "Faith Like Potatoes", I would like to warn people about False Prophets in the end times we currently are living in.

Firstly, this is a religious movie - not a Christian movie and it's definitely NOT biblically sound.

The Bible was given to us by God Almighty as a yardstick to measure these things, as we are told in Ephesians the devil comes to us masquerading as an angel of light, so we are to discern these things, not accept every wind of doctrine that comes our way, or every word or deed that seems to be "Christian", yet when weighed against the Word of God, is found seriously wanting.

As I've stated on another forum:
If a person (in religious circles) is popular and brings in huge crowds, or is a good public speaker and holds the attention of his audience, or is very likeable, or if he is baptized and is a member of a Church, or if he quotes scripture, or has many academic qualifications - it doesn't mean he is speaking the Truth of God's Word.

Only Scripture can be used to verify whether a man and his words/actions are true or of the Spirit of Truth. You can't just turn your soul's salvation over to men by automatically believing everything they tell you or believe the things they do. It's the most dangerous thing you can ever do in your life as it has dire eternal consequences. The Bible says there is condemnation for those who follow another Jesus and another Gospel.

The Bible is God's witness to the Truth, and the witness of the Truth is in God's Word - so if it's not in the Word, it's not of the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Truth).

The Bible has this to say about deception and the apostate church, which propagates a spirit of falsehood and error, which the Bible calls a whore or harlot and how she deceives people:

Proverbs 7:6-10 (http://www.biblegateway.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NKJV&x=0&y=0&passage=Proverbs+7:6-10) : I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house, In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night: And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

Proverbs 7:22-27 (http://www.biblegateway.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NKJV&x=0&y=0&passage=Proverbs+7:22-27) : With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter. Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth. Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. For she both cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

PROBLEMS WITH THIS "REVIVAL" WHICH PRETTY MUCH FOLLOWS THE SAME CONCEPT AS PROMISE KEEPERS:
It's leader is part of the Charismatic Movement which is a major catalyst in bringing about fellowship and union with the Roman Catholic Church.
They totally reject the commands of Scripture to separate from and warn about false teachers, disobedient brethren, and the world - 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14, 15, 1 John 2:15-17.
They don't obey the commands of the Bible to "preach no other doctrine - 1 Timothy 1:3 and also refuse to heed the warning in Galatians 1:6-10, so they become the "blind leading the blind" - Matthew 15:10-14

They make the bold claim of - "Seven solid promises that will change a man’s life forever", yet these 7 promises aren't based solely on the foundation of God's Word, instead they're a mixture of God's Word and the suppositions of Man:

Their emphasis upon self-effort within their program supplants absolute dependence upon the Lord Jesus Christ. The reality is this : Only God can unfailingly keep a promise. And the end result is : Many will face disillusionment and disappointment because of their failure to look to God alone and His promises.

The dangers of this theology:
Advocate unscriptural religious unity at the expense of sound biblical doctrine and practice.
Promote and accept unscriptural charismatic teachings.
Use and approval of psychology and its techniques.
Use and promotion of corrupted versions of the Bible such as the NIV.
Misinterprete and twist key scriptures.
Stressthe importance of Evangelism but at the same time ignore the need of the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ. (another Gospel?)

Bill McCartney, Founder of Promise Keepers, unbiblical take on unity:

Compared to Martin & Deidre Bobgan's statement in their booklet titled : Promise Keepers & Psychoheresy:







KraggaKamma,

I'm a bit confused here, what exactly is the problem with the current events in South Africa? Not that you should not be sceptic, because this is my own stance too, but are you measuring the movie, "Faith like patotoes", as catalysis for your conclusions? If this is what you are doing, you really are out of line (rather read the book), because the movie is a complete underplay of what is happening in reality (though a lot of people would disagree with me here, I'm just honest about my own experience). I've seen the movie myself and have come to almost the same conclusion, but when I've been confronted with reality, my views changed dramatically...

Eaglenester
May 18th 2008, 02:10 PM
But in all seriousness, this is transforming mine and many other people's lives from being a Christian that is full of the Spirit, to one that is Overflowing with the Spirit.

How is this "Overflowing with the Spirit" manifested - what does it look like to an observer?

Friend of Jesus
May 18th 2008, 02:17 PM
How is this "Overflowing with the Spirit" manifested - what does it look like to an observer?


A better question would be "how does it feel like to be overflowing" - I am not just an observer, I'm in it.

The answer to that question would be: ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! God's love is just pouring out. And God's presence is so strong- it's like you can reach out and touch him.

Eaglenester
May 18th 2008, 02:27 PM
A better question would be "how does it feel like to be overflowing" - I am not just an observer, I'm in it.

The answer to that question would be: ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! God's love is just pouring out. And God's presence is so strong- it's like you can reach out and touch him.

But to an observer, how does your life look different?

Or is it just a feeling, a rush type thing?

Friend of Jesus
May 18th 2008, 02:50 PM
How does my life look different- well I'm sure that in time more things will be obvious (it's only been a week). But from what I can see so far:

- Worshipping God more often and passionately
- Praying with God more intimately
- Living life more joyfully

Eaglenester
May 18th 2008, 03:14 PM
How does my life look different- well I'm sure that in time more things will be obvious (it's only been a week). But from what I can see so far:

- Worshipping God more often and passionately
- Praying with God more intimately
- Living life more joyfully

Is that the fruit the Holy gives when overflowing from someone?

What about Galatians 5:22&23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,meekness, self-control;
If you and the others at your church are overflowing with Yahweh's Holy Spirit - than these traits must be manifested in everyone GREATLY

The Holy Spirit convicts of sin - so everyone must be coming under a greater awareness and conviction of sin in their lives.

The Holy Spirit giver power to overcome - so everyone must be walking in greater victory over sin.
Walking in greater obedience.

James tells us that faith without works is useless and dead - so the works: feeding the hungry; sheltering the homeless; helping the widows, the single moms, orphans, the addicted and destitute - must be overflowing also.

Scripture says we are to become like Messiah, and Yahweh's Holy Spirit is identical in character and nature to that of Messiah, so you and the others must evidently act more and more like Yahshua The Messiah.

The last commandment Yahshua gave was to go and make disciples, so everyone must be out making new disciples and teaching them.

..............

If the above isn't happening in a great and evident way - then the revival is MEANINGLESS, and not a revival at all.

ProjectPeter
May 18th 2008, 03:52 PM
Most of you guys should have access to participating in the new social groups. Join this group and let's reason this out together... decently and in order.

http://bibleforums.org/group.php?groupid=24

I will explain my resoning for this in that section.

Friend of Jesus
May 18th 2008, 03:57 PM
Please do not pester me, things like peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,meekness, self-control are not things that an observer could see- I was talking about my acts, not my state of mind. And yes joy and love are very visible and they are very clear in our church and in me.

Please remember it has been a week and I have not spoken to every member of my church and asked them personally- don't pounce on me saying that this revival is not of God.

My church revival IS OF GOD- and if you say otherwise it doesn't make a difference to reality. All you have done is justify my point that I made earlier. So stop pointing your decieving finger and wake up to what the Lord is doing in the world.

I ask you now:

Does your God still do miracles?
Does your God still heal people?
Does your God still set people on fire with the Holy Spirit?
If not I'll stick with mine
I like mine

ProjectPeter
May 18th 2008, 04:52 PM
There is just too much heat on this topic for the open board. Let's all take it to the group that I started and we can discuss it there.