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View Full Version : Do you think the rich young ruler ever sold everything he had?



Colossians 3:17
May 16th 2008, 06:14 AM
Mark 10:17-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%2010:17-22&version=49)

I think people incorrectly assume he did NOT end up selling everything he had because he went away "grieved"...

Honestly, the fact he went away grieved makes me think he DID end up selling his possessions, because it shows that he KNEW what the right thing to do was....No way he could be happy with his possessions the rest of his life knowing the truth.

Here are some things we can infer about the rich young ruler:


1) First, we can tell me was humble because he kneels in front of Jesus and physically shows that he is submitting himself to Jesus as an authority...As we know God gives grace to the humble, but is opposed to the proud.

2) Clearly, this was a righteous man that was very careful to glorify God with his life by following the Law...When he tells Jesus he has followed all the law since his youth, it says Jesus "felt a love for him"...I think that infers Jesus could tell that this man really did try to live a Godly life and was seeking after him.

Yes, he was grieved when he knew he'd have to give up all his possessions for Christ, but since when does grieving mean he'd never give it up?

For example, there are new believers out there that are grieved when they realize that they have to end a relationship with a boyfriend or girlfriend they love because that person is not a believer or seeking God...Doesn't mean they won't do it.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Ruler DID end up selling his possessions, and I believe that he is in heaven with Jesus.

allen_1971
May 16th 2008, 11:26 AM
If we had to guess, it could go either way... there is no way to be sure....

I heard a sermon just a few weeks back, and what was a new revelation for me was the commands that Jesus asked him about.

Luk 18:20 "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"

Have you noticed that Jesus asked him about the 5 commandments which relate to man? I'm almost certain he could not have given the same answer if Jesus had asked him about the commandments relating to God.

Anyway, in the end its just hypothesis... :bounce:

Slug1
May 16th 2008, 11:46 AM
Allot of people kneel before Jesus and think all their relationship is, is to believe. Then when Jesus shows His love for them and requires service and sacrifice then many don't want that and they fall away or they maintain that they believe in Jesus but won't lift a finger to do what His will is for them and they have absolutely no fruit even though they may appear very religious. Hot on the outside for God but cold on the inside for His will in their life. Sad... cause the Love is aways there but obedience is asked for in return so God can fullfill His purpose for/through them... all this takes is sacrifice on our part as we accept God and do it His way (mature and bare fruit) and not our way (struggle/fail and in some cases, fall away).

I don't assume the rich dude came back to a relationship with Jesus cause it meant sacrifice on his part (give/sell everything) and Jesus gave him a clue as to what would be required of him if he pursued a relationship. He didn't want to be obedient...

At least this is my opinion.

tgallison
May 16th 2008, 11:47 AM
Mark 10:17-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%2010:17-22&version=49)

I think people incorrectly assume he did NOT end up selling everything he had because he went away "grieved"...

Honestly, the fact he went away grieved makes me think he DID end up selling his possessions, because it shows that he KNEW what the right thing to do was....No way he could be happy with his possessions the rest of his life knowing the truth.

Here are some things we can infer about the rich young ruler:


1) First, we can tell me was humble because he kneels in front of Jesus and physically shows that he is submitting himself to Jesus as an authority...As we know God gives grace to the humble, but is opposed to the proud.

2) Clearly, this was a righteous man that was very careful to glorify God with his life by following the Law...When he tells Jesus he has followed all the law since his youth, it says Jesus "felt a love for him"...I think that infers Jesus could tell that this man really did try to live a Godly life and was seeking after him.

Yes, he was grieved when he knew he'd have to give up all his possessions for Christ, but since when does grieving mean he'd never give it up?

For example, there are new believers out there that are grieved when they realize that they have to end a relationship with a boyfriend or girlfriend they love because that person is not a believer or seeking God...Doesn't mean they won't do it.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Ruler DID end up selling his possessions, and I believe that he is in heaven with Jesus.

I think the rich young man struck out three times. Think about it, what is the first step in salvation? Acknowledging who Jesus Christ is, the Son of God. When Jesus asked, why callest me good, he was giving the young man the opportunity to acknowledge that Jesus was the Son of God.

The second was keep the law. In keeping the law that makes you perfect. But we all know nobody can keep the whole law. When he said he kept the law from his youth up, we know that was a lie, nobody can keep the whole law.

The third, come and follow me. If he had followed Jesus, he would have had the opportunity to acknowledge that he was the Son of God at some later time. Remember the Apostles were not saved when they first followed Jesus, He had to ask them who do you think I am.

Just an opinion, terrell

threebigrocks
May 16th 2008, 06:46 PM
The rich ruler hung his head. He was convicted. That is the beginning of putting the old man behind and moving forward with the new.

Did he actually have a change of heart? Scripture doesn't say as far as I know.

I guess I look back to the first time anyone was called to follow Christ. Peter just got up and went. So did Andrew, Philip and Nathaniel. No questions, just left what they were doing - including their stuff - and followed Him knowing nothing about Him. Heart of a child I'd say, having that sort of faith. To see and believe!

But later on here comes this young ruler having known something about Jesus and walked away with his head hung when he was told to follow Christ and how. Over stuff.

The apostles walked away from their physical life source to the spiritual. The rich young ruler prolaiming to have his spiritual life together still clung to the physical.

timmyb
May 16th 2008, 06:52 PM
I think the rich young man struck out three times. Think about it, what is the first step in salvation? Acknowledging who Jesus Christ is, the Son of God. When Jesus asked, why callest me good, he was giving the young man the opportunity to acknowledge that Jesus was the Son of God.

The second was keep the law. In keeping the law that makes you perfect. But we all know nobody can keep the whole law. When he said he kept the law from his youth up, we know that was a lie, nobody can keep the whole law.

The third, come and follow me. If he had followed Jesus, he would have had the opportunity to acknowledge that he was the Son of God at some later time. Remember the Apostles were not saved when they first followed Jesus, He had to ask them who do you think I am.

Just an opinion, terrell

one problem with that... where does your interpretation of that line up with the Bible... how many times did you strike out before you 'got it'? That's an unfair interpretation of that and an unfair judgement of the rich young ruler considering how many chances you and I had to accept Christ and missed

tgallison
May 16th 2008, 07:01 PM
one problem with that... where does your interpretation of that line up with the Bible... how many times did you strike out before you 'got it'? That's an unfair interpretation of that and an unfair judgement of the rich young ruler considering how many chances you and I had to accept Christ and missed

timmyb greetings

I never meant to imply that he couldn't be saved after that, no where in scripture does it say you only get three strike outs.

The point is, Jesus asked a question. "Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God?

How would you reply to that? Is Jesus good? or is he not?

terrell

Colossians 3:17
May 16th 2008, 09:13 PM
The rich ruler hung his head. He was convicted. That is the beginning of putting the old man behind and moving forward with the new.

Did he actually have a change of heart? Scripture doesn't say as far as I know.

I guess I look back to the first time anyone was called to follow Christ. Peter just got up and went. So did Andrew, Philip and Nathaniel. No questions, just left what they were doing - including their stuff - and followed Him knowing nothing about Him. Heart of a child I'd say, having that sort of faith. To see and believe!

But later on here comes this young ruler having known something about Jesus and walked away with his head hung when he was told to follow Christ and how. Over stuff.

The apostles walked away from their physical life source to the spiritual. The rich young ruler prolaiming to have his spiritual life together still clung to the physical.


I know MANY, many Christians (including myself) that were grieved with what we would have to give up for God, and did not give it up immediately.

threebigrocks
May 16th 2008, 10:29 PM
I know MANY, many Christians (including myself) that were grieved with what we would have to give up for God, and did not give it up immediately.

It's a progression, a growing up, a maturity that brings us to these realizations. I'm one of them too!

RogerW
May 16th 2008, 10:57 PM
Mark 10:17-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%2010:17-22&version=49)

I think people incorrectly assume he did NOT end up selling everything he had because he went away "grieved"...

Honestly, the fact he went away grieved makes me think he DID end up selling his possessions, because it shows that he KNEW what the right thing to do was....No way he could be happy with his possessions the rest of his life knowing the truth.

Here are some things we can infer about the rich young ruler:


1) First, we can tell me was humble because he kneels in front of Jesus and physically shows that he is submitting himself to Jesus as an authority...As we know God gives grace to the humble, but is opposed to the proud.

2) Clearly, this was a righteous man that was very careful to glorify God with his life by following the Law...When he tells Jesus he has followed all the law since his youth, it says Jesus "felt a love for him"...I think that infers Jesus could tell that this man really did try to live a Godly life and was seeking after him.

Yes, he was grieved when he knew he'd have to give up all his possessions for Christ, but since when does grieving mean he'd never give it up?

For example, there are new believers out there that are grieved when they realize that they have to end a relationship with a boyfriend or girlfriend they love because that person is not a believer or seeking God...Doesn't mean they won't do it.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Ruler DID end up selling his possessions, and I believe that he is in heaven with Jesus.

I think the problem for the man is revealed early in the conversation when he asks, Mk 10:17 "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" Mt 19:16 "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" All his life the rich ruler is taught that the means of grace is within himself, so he went away disappointed because he thought he could secure salvation through deeds of the flesh without forsaking all to follow Him.

Mr 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Many Blessings,
RW

Mograce2U
May 17th 2008, 03:59 AM
Scripture seems to memorialize the faithful for us while the unfaithful are left without identity. The rich young ruler is faceless and nameless to us. While others like Zaccheus and Dora and Lydia and Nicodemus and Cornelius, etc., are commended for their faith and we are given their names. I expect that we will meet them in heaven. Instead the rich young ruler's story seems only to be given to us as an example of what a wrong choice is. Which makes me think twice now that perhaps Simon the Sorcerer did change his ways, while the nameless generic group referred to only as the Pharisees, never did. The rich man in hell vs Lazarus in Abraham's bosom is another such example. The rich young ruler had the wrong response and therefore grief was his experience instead of joy.

Ashley274
May 17th 2008, 04:18 AM
I can't say what the man did, if he ever sold his stuff even after Christ died and rose again...But I DO know straight from God's word that what is not possible for man IS possible for God...So I think Jesus was saying to his disciples when asked was this man who walked away could be saved by FAITH NOT BY HIS WORKS any works...Maybe after Christ died he became a disciple because GOD KNEW he would send His spirit to him.

Lars777
May 17th 2008, 05:08 AM
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (Mark 10:17-18)



This is the incident we usually refer to as "the story of the rich young ruler," for Luke and Matthew tell us that this young man was very wealthy, and that he was a ruler, an aristocrat.

What an amazing picture! This splendid, handsome, attractive young aristocrat, coming and kneeling at the feet of this peasant teacher from Galilee.

Notice his opening question: "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" It is obvious from this that the young man had just heard Jesus. He was evidently present when Jesus answered the Pharisees' question on divorce, and he saw Jesus blessing the children and rebuking the disciples, telling them they must become like a child to enter the kingdom of God.

Something awakened in this young man's heart as he listened, and as Jesus starts to leave he comes running to him. Kneeling down before him, he says in effect, "All right, how? How do you enter the kingdom?

What must I do to inherit eternal life?" You cannot read this without seeing that this young man, whoever he was, possessed at least the first of those qualities Jesus said you must have in order to enter the kingdom.

He was direct, forthright; he came immediately to the point. His sense of need was aroused and awakened, and he did not wait; he came right out and asked, "Lord, what must I do?"

Notice Jesus' reply: "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." Many have puzzled over why Jesus said that to this young man.

Some of the more liberal commentators have said that this is one clear occasion when Jesus denies that he is God. Their argument goes like this: Jesus says, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God." In asking "Why do you call me good?" he is, in effect, denying that he is good: "Don't call me good; I'm not good. Only God is good, and I'm not God." This is one line of approach you can take with regard to these words.

But it is equally valid to take it as a claim to deity on Jesus' part. What he is really saying to this young man is, "Look, why do you call me good? What do you mean by 'good'?

If you understand what good means, you will understand that only God is good. Therefore, if you call me good, you must understand that you're calling me God."

That is an equally valid interpretation, and certainly is in line with all the rest of the claims of Scripture concerning Jesus and his claims about himself.

So it is apparent that he is probing this young man, searching to see if he is willing to investigate and learn -- in other words, to see if he is teachable or not.

He has already demonstrated the quality of elementary and uncomplicated directness. He came immediately with the question on his heart -- came running, and knelt down before him -- his heart open and seeking.

Now Jesus says "Are you teachable? Are you willing to investigate, to think something through?" Then he tests him on the final quality: "Are you obedient?" Verse 19:

"You know the commandments: 'Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud [i.e., covet, or steal], Honor your father and mother.'" (Mark 10:19)

"What has God said to you? Have you obeyed? Are you obedient?" This young man's response is beautiful. He says without hesitation,

"Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth." (Mark 10:20)

Notice that Jesus does not say to him, "Well, you must be keeping something from me. I don't believe that." He does not imply at all that this young man is lying to him, or even deceiving himself, in any way.

He seems to accept, to be satisfied with this young man's reply. No wonder Mark goes on to say, "And Jesus looking upon him loved him."

Here is an open-hearted, beautiful, moral, excellent young man. Jesus observing him and hearing his answers, loved him -- because he had the qualities which make it possible to enter the kingdom. But he has one thing more to say to him, Verses 21-22:

And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. (Mark 10:21-22 )

Jesus is saying, "You have the qualities it takes to enter the kingdom. You are simple and direct, you are teachable, and you are obedient. That is, you have been.

Now let's see how much you have retained of those qualities How obedient are you now? How far do you carry this willingness to act upon what you know to be true?

You lack but one thing: go and sell all that you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come and follow me."

There is an ironic humor in the young man's response: "He went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions."

Would you go away sorrowful if you had great possessions? If you had just won fifty thousand dollars in a television give-away program, would you go away sorrowful?

No, you would be rejoicing. But this young man went away sorrowful, because he had great possessions. Why?

Of course the answer is that he could see there was no way he could serve two masters. Jesus in that marvelous way of his, had pierced right to the heart of this young man's life, right to the deep things of his spirit, and had shown him that he was owned by another god.

This young man, who had everything that money and power and youth could give him, nevertheless had wanted something far more important. He saw it, caught a glimpse of it, wanted it -- eternal life not just living forever, but a quality of life he knew he lacked, an emptiness within his spirit he could not fill.

But he knew this could fill it, and he wanted it. But he was sorrowful, because he also knew, at the words of Jesus, that he had to give up the other in order to have this; he could not have both.

This is why he went away sorrowful -- because he had great possessions.

I do not believe this is the end of the story. I believe, from various indications in Scripture, that this young man was Mark himself.

It is only Mark who tells us that when Jesus looked at this young man, he loved him.

How could Mark know that, if Jesus had not told him? And Mark was indeed a rich young man, a member of the aristocratic ruling class in Israel.

He fits this picture in many ways. And only Mark tells us of the young man who flees from the scene of the arrest of Jesus, leaving his garment in the hands of the soldiers, and runs off naked into the night.

If this was indeed Mark, then there must have come a time when this young man, weighing what Jesus had said, understanding that he was putting all his present comfort and material wealth in the balance against eternal life, against the importance and value of his soul both now and in eternity, understanding that he was giving up the satisfaction of all the deep things of his manhood in exchange for these paltry riches, decided to put it all away and obey Jesus.

He gave everything away, and had nothing left but a robe, and came and followed Jesus. And that is why he writes this Gospel.

Now, this is my own speculation. It is not what the Scripture teaches. You may not agree, and that is fine.

Colossians 3:17
May 17th 2008, 06:19 AM
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (Mark 10:17-18)



This is the incident we usually refer to as "the story of the rich young ruler," for Luke and Matthew tell us that this young man was very wealthy, and that he was a ruler, an aristocrat.

What an amazing picture! This splendid, handsome, attractive young aristocrat, coming and kneeling at the feet of this peasant teacher from Galilee.

Notice his opening question: "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" It is obvious from this that the young man had just heard Jesus. He was evidently present when Jesus answered the Pharisees' question on divorce, and he saw Jesus blessing the children and rebuking the disciples, telling them they must become like a child to enter the kingdom of God.

Something awakened in this young man's heart as he listened, and as Jesus starts to leave he comes running to him. Kneeling down before him, he says in effect, "All right, how? How do you enter the kingdom?

What must I do to inherit eternal life?" You cannot read this without seeing that this young man, whoever he was, possessed at least the first of those qualities Jesus said you must have in order to enter the kingdom.

He was direct, forthright; he came immediately to the point. His sense of need was aroused and awakened, and he did not wait; he came right out and asked, "Lord, what must I do?"

Notice Jesus' reply: "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." Many have puzzled over why Jesus said that to this young man.

Some of the more liberal commentators have said that this is one clear occasion when Jesus denies that he is God. Their argument goes like this: Jesus says, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God." In asking "Why do you call me good?" he is, in effect, denying that he is good: "Don't call me good; I'm not good. Only God is good, and I'm not God." This is one line of approach you can take with regard to these words.

But it is equally valid to take it as a claim to deity on Jesus' part. What he is really saying to this young man is, "Look, why do you call me good? What do you mean by 'good'?

If you understand what good means, you will understand that only God is good. Therefore, if you call me good, you must understand that you're calling me God."

That is an equally valid interpretation, and certainly is in line with all the rest of the claims of Scripture concerning Jesus and his claims about himself.

So it is apparent that he is probing this young man, searching to see if he is willing to investigate and learn -- in other words, to see if he is teachable or not.

He has already demonstrated the quality of elementary and uncomplicated directness. He came immediately with the question on his heart -- came running, and knelt down before him -- his heart open and seeking.

Now Jesus says "Are you teachable? Are you willing to investigate, to think something through?" Then he tests him on the final quality: "Are you obedient?" Verse 19:

"You know the commandments: 'Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud [i.e., covet, or steal], Honor your father and mother.'" (Mark 10:19)

"What has God said to you? Have you obeyed? Are you obedient?" This young man's response is beautiful. He says without hesitation,

"Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth." (Mark 10:20)

Notice that Jesus does not say to him, "Well, you must be keeping something from me. I don't believe that." He does not imply at all that this young man is lying to him, or even deceiving himself, in any way.

He seems to accept, to be satisfied with this young man's reply. No wonder Mark goes on to say, "And Jesus looking upon him loved him."

Here is an open-hearted, beautiful, moral, excellent young man. Jesus observing him and hearing his answers, loved him -- because he had the qualities which make it possible to enter the kingdom. But he has one thing more to say to him, Verses 21-22:

And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. (Mark 10:21-22 )

Jesus is saying, "You have the qualities it takes to enter the kingdom. You are simple and direct, you are teachable, and you are obedient. That is, you have been.

Now let's see how much you have retained of those qualities How obedient are you now? How far do you carry this willingness to act upon what you know to be true?

You lack but one thing: go and sell all that you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come and follow me."

There is an ironic humor in the young man's response: "He went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions."

Would you go away sorrowful if you had great possessions? If you had just won fifty thousand dollars in a television give-away program, would you go away sorrowful?

No, you would be rejoicing. But this young man went away sorrowful, because he had great possessions. Why?

Of course the answer is that he could see there was no way he could serve two masters. Jesus in that marvelous way of his, had pierced right to the heart of this young man's life, right to the deep things of his spirit, and had shown him that he was owned by another god.

This young man, who had everything that money and power and youth could give him, nevertheless had wanted something far more important. He saw it, caught a glimpse of it, wanted it -- eternal life not just living forever, but a quality of life he knew he lacked, an emptiness within his spirit he could not fill.

But he knew this could fill it, and he wanted it. But he was sorrowful, because he also knew, at the words of Jesus, that he had to give up the other in order to have this; he could not have both.

This is why he went away sorrowful -- because he had great possessions.

I do not believe this is the end of the story. I believe, from various indications in Scripture, that this young man was Mark himself.

It is only Mark who tells us that when Jesus looked at this young man, he loved him.

How could Mark know that, if Jesus had not told him? And Mark was indeed a rich young man, a member of the aristocratic ruling class in Israel.

He fits this picture in many ways. And only Mark tells us of the young man who flees from the scene of the arrest of Jesus, leaving his garment in the hands of the soldiers, and runs off naked into the night.

If this was indeed Mark, then there must have come a time when this young man, weighing what Jesus had said, understanding that he was putting all his present comfort and material wealth in the balance against eternal life, against the importance and value of his soul both now and in eternity, understanding that he was giving up the satisfaction of all the deep things of his manhood in exchange for these paltry riches, decided to put it all away and obey Jesus.

He gave everything away, and had nothing left but a robe, and came and followed Jesus. And that is why he writes this Gospel.

Now, this is my own speculation. It is not what the Scripture teaches. You may not agree, and that is fine.

That is a very interesting take...And I hope it is true!

It is obviously a bit of a stretch, but it would mean this "Rich young ruler" really is with Jesus in heaven.

Random Question: How do you know Mark was a member of the upper class? Wasn't he a disciple of Peter? (two mutually exclusive questions)

On a side note: If it truly was Mark, I kinda doubt he would remain nameless in the gospels this story is mentioned...Particularly in Mark.

threebigrocks
May 17th 2008, 01:51 PM
Some of the more liberal commentators have said that this is one clear occasion when Jesus denies that he is God. Their argument goes like this: Jesus says, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God." In asking "Why do you call me good?" he is, in effect, denying that he is good: "Don't call me good; I'm not good. Only God is good, and I'm not God." This is one line of approach you can take with regard to these words.

But it is equally valid to take it as a claim to deity on Jesus' part. What he is really saying to this young man is, "Look, why do you call me good? What do you mean by 'good'?

If you understand what good means, you will understand that only God is good. Therefore, if you call me good, you must understand that you're calling me God."

That is an equally valid interpretation, and certainly is in line with all the rest of the claims of Scripture concerning Jesus and his claims about himself.

I wonder if this rich young ruler didn't have the same thinking at that moment as Nicodemus had when he first approached Jesus.

John 3


3Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
9Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?
11"Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12"If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?


Jesus said that he who has seen Him has seen the Father, so he is not denying his place in the Godhead at all. Yet, Father, Son and Spirit make up the completeness of God together. I see it as the young ruler hearing and seeing something incredible for sure, but only taking it into his mind and not his heart. He too needed to be reborn and not of water but by the Spirit. The desire, and counting those costs, of putting aside worldly things which pass away was great for that young man.

If we read in John in Chapter 7 when Jesus went on after the disciples to the Feast of Booths and taught in the temple, many of his followers fell away when they heard him speak because of the desire of the pharasees and sadducees to arrest him. Jesus wasn't so nice and inspirational when they began to see and count the costs of following Him.

Brother Mark
May 17th 2008, 02:42 PM
I wonder if the rich young rule was the guy Jesus was referring to late when he said the rich man lifted up his eyes in hell. When the word comes and we reject it, our heart gets harder. If we accept, it gets softer.

timmyb
May 17th 2008, 04:50 PM
timmyb greetings

I never meant to imply that he couldn't be saved after that, no where in scripture does it say you only get three strike outs.

The point is, Jesus asked a question. "Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God?

How would you reply to that? Is Jesus good? or is he not?

terrell

he is always good...

i just didn't get what you were trying to say out of that...

Teke
May 17th 2008, 06:01 PM
Mark 10:17-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%2010:17-22&version=49)

I think people incorrectly assume he did NOT end up selling everything he had because he went away "grieved"...

Honestly, the fact he went away grieved makes me think he DID end up selling his possessions, because it shows that he KNEW what the right thing to do was....No way he could be happy with his possessions the rest of his life knowing the truth.

Here are some things we can infer about the rich young ruler:


1) First, we can tell me was humble because he kneels in front of Jesus and physically shows that he is submitting himself to Jesus as an authority...As we know God gives grace to the humble, but is opposed to the proud.

2) Clearly, this was a righteous man that was very careful to glorify God with his life by following the Law...When he tells Jesus he has followed all the law since his youth, it says Jesus "felt a love for him"...I think that infers Jesus could tell that this man really did try to live a Godly life and was seeking after him.

Yes, he was grieved when he knew he'd have to give up all his possessions for Christ, but since when does grieving mean he'd never give it up?

For example, there are new believers out there that are grieved when they realize that they have to end a relationship with a boyfriend or girlfriend they love because that person is not a believer or seeking God...Doesn't mean they won't do it.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Ruler DID end up selling his possessions, and I believe that he is in heaven with Jesus.

I believe the man would have certainly rethought his use of money, since this is what Jesus challenges him about in his thinking. There is nothing wrong with possessions if used for God's purpose.

I don't believe we should think of this as a universal requirement of some sort for salvation or righteousness. Voluntary poverty is a legitimate way of life for those who choose it freely. But just as Paul's point on celibacy, everyone is not able to do such.

Both ways keep us humble.:)

Mograce2U
May 18th 2008, 04:51 AM
As the rich young ruler counts off the laws he has obeyed, Jesus is quick to point out the covetousness of his heart - a law he has not obeyed, by the instructions He gives him. This is the law that grieves him, because he is not willing to give all that he has to the poor. Salvation requires too great a cost for him and he is grieved, because he is not willing to repent of his covetousness, yet apparently is aware of his quilt.

The idea that is oft promoted today that you can have all the world offers and Jesus too, is clearly refuted here. It is all or nothing when it comes to how we must be saved. Zaccheus responded with a right heart when he met Jesus and was willing to restore all that he had fraudently gained and more besides. And to him Jesus says that salvation had come to him.

threebigrocks
May 18th 2008, 02:41 PM
I believe the man would have certainly rethought his use of money, since this is what Jesus challenges him about in his thinking. There is nothing wrong with possessions if used for God's purpose.

I don't believe we should think of this as a universal requirement of some sort for salvation or righteousness. Voluntary poverty is a legitimate way of life for those who choose it freely. But just as Paul's point on celibacy, everyone is not able to do such.

Both ways keep us humble.:)


As the rich young ruler counts off the laws he has obeyed, Jesus is quick to point out the covetousness of his heart - a law he has not obeyed, by the instructions He gives him. This is the law that grieves him, because he is not willing to give all that he has to the poor. Salvation requires too great a cost for him and he is grieved, because he is not willing to repent of his covetousness, yet apparently is aware of his quilt.

The idea that is oft promoted today that you can have all the world offers and Jesus too, is clearly refuted here. It is all or nothing when it comes to how we must be saved. Zaccheus responded with a right heart when he met Jesus and was willing to restore all that he had fraudently gained and more besides. And to him Jesus says that salvation had come to him.


I think these two replies together show an awful lot. No, not everyone is led to a life of simplicity, lack of materialim, or poverty. We can have that in our lives now by pruning what we have.

Yet, if we were led, or told, to sell all we have as the ruler was could we actually do so? I've often thought of that and look around myself and seen what surrouds me. 90% I believe wouldn't be terribly hard for me to seperate myself from. There are those few things that would be hard.

There is nothing wrong with having worldly wealth so long as it is not attached to your heart. That is where the young ruler was convicted, and something Christ knew of his heart.

tgallison
May 18th 2008, 06:29 PM
he is always good...

i just didn't get what you were trying to say out of that...

timmyb greetings

Rather than get caught up in what might have been, or what somebody was thinking, isn't it more important to look a what was actually being said.

The question was, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

How many answers are there to that question? Most would say one, some would say two, but I believe Jesus said three.

1. Acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, the Son of God.

2. Be perfect in righteousness, which is keeping the law. Nobody ever has, except Jesus, and nobody ever will. But that is the reason the law was given, so that a person could live in perfect righteousness. Isn't that what God said to Israel, keep the law and I will be your Lord.

3. Failing the first two, Jesus told the young man to give up all his worldly possessions, and come and follow him. Now this doesn't guarantee eternal life, but it would show a change of heart, and a chance to gain eternal life, by becoming aware of who Jesus truly is, and accepting Him into his heart.

This is what I see Jesus saying in reply to the question. He knew the man's heart, and He knew the man's end. The important part of this story is not about what happened to that man, though we should all care about every man, but the the important part is the answer that Jesus gave to that man.

Who do men say that I am? Isn't that what salvation is all about?

terrell

Mograce2U
May 18th 2008, 10:50 PM
I think these two replies together show an awful lot. No, not everyone is led to a life of simplicity, lack of materialim, or poverty. We can have that in our lives now by pruning what we have.

Yet, if we were led, or told, to sell all we have as the ruler was could we actually do so? I've often thought of that and look around myself and seen what surrouds me. 90% I believe wouldn't be terribly hard for me to seperate myself from. There are those few things that would be hard.

There is nothing wrong with having worldly wealth so long as it is not attached to your heart. That is where the young ruler was convicted, and something Christ knew of his heart.A covetous heart is so much more than one attached to its material possessions. A heart freed from covetousness is able to look to the needs of others rather than self with genuine concern for his state rather than his own. This is the change that occurred in Zaccheus that did not in the rich young ruler. Zack was spiritually set free from what still bound the unnamed man to his carnal concerns. It is not about whether Zack or the ruler had to give away all they possessed to be set free, but in Zack it was coming to the knowledge that what he now possessed was of far greater glory so that his whole perspective was changed. In that sense it is not either/ or as the rich young ruler thought - it is truly all or nothing! He chose the nothing... Zack chose Life.

Colossians 3:17
May 18th 2008, 10:53 PM
A covetous heart is so much more than one attached to its material possessions. A heart freed from covetousness is able to look to the needs of others rather than self with genuine concern for his state rather than his own. This is the change that occurred in Zaccheus that did not in the rich young ruler. Zack was spiritually set free from what still bound the unnamed man to his carnal concerns. It is not about whether Zack or the ruler had to give away all they possessed to be set free, but in Zack it was coming to the knowledge that what he now possessed was of far greater glory so that his whole perspective was changed. In that sense it is not either/ or as the rich young ruler thought - it is truly all or nothing! He chose the nothing... Zack chose Life.

Why are yall married to the idea that unless someone gives up everything right at that moment they will NEVER do it? All it says is that he went away "grieving"...that in no way means he didn't give it up...He might have gone straight home and given it up...The bible doesn't say one way or another.

I know very few Christians who just flat out gave up everything (not just money, but other "worldly" and sinful things) when they became believers.

Mograce2U
May 18th 2008, 11:00 PM
Why are yall married to the idea that unless someone gives up everything right at that moment they will NEVER do it?

I know very few Christians who just flat out gave up everything (not just money, but other "worldly" and sinful things) when they became believers.Where's that Jim Elliot quote when you need it...

What is to give up? Who wants to hold onto sin when it has been forgiven? It may take some time to realize that one need not sin impudently as before, once they know where the power of victory lies. But if they have yet to see their sin for what it is - abominable to a holy God, then it can only be because they haven't yet bowed their knee - nor their heart.

Colossians 3:17
May 18th 2008, 11:04 PM
Where's that Jim Elliot quote when you need it...

What is to give up? Who wants to hold onto sin when it has been forgiven? It may take some time to realize that one need not sin impudently as before, once they know where the power of victory lies. But if they have yet to see their sin for what it is - abominable to a holy God, then it can only be because they haven't yet bowed their knee - nor their heart.

That is a great quote!

But relative to the discussion at hand, I don't think it helps either argument one way or the other.

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 01:09 AM
A covetous heart is so much more than one attached to its material possessions. A heart freed from covetousness is able to look to the needs of others rather than self with genuine concern for his state rather than his own. This is the change that occurred in Zaccheus that did not in the rich young ruler. Zack was spiritually set free from what still bound the unnamed man to his carnal concerns. It is not about whether Zack or the ruler had to give away all they possessed to be set free, but in Zack it was coming to the knowledge that what he now possessed was of far greater glory so that his whole perspective was changed. In that sense it is not either/ or as the rich young ruler thought - it is truly all or nothing! He chose the nothing... Zack chose Life.

God delivers us of our sins AFTER we are saved. The rich young ruler wanted to know what he must do. God showed him maturity in the faith and where he had fallen short. Jesus used the law rightly to reveal the man's heart to him. He went away sad because he couldn't do it. The proper response would have been "God help me. I am a sinner." Then God would have delivered him of his bondage to sin. A sinner can no more give up his sin than he can change his eye color. He must be set free from it.

ProjectPeter
May 19th 2008, 01:44 AM
We don't need to try and guess. What the man did he did be it right or wrong. All that is required of us is that we get the point that was made. Anything else is just our opinion. ;)

threebigrocks
May 19th 2008, 02:11 AM
A covetous heart is so much more than one attached to its material possessions. A heart freed from covetousness is able to look to the needs of others rather than self with genuine concern for his state rather than his own. This is the change that occurred in Zaccheus that did not in the rich young ruler. Zack was spiritually set free from what still bound the unnamed man to his carnal concerns. It is not about whether Zack or the ruler had to give away all they possessed to be set free, but in Zack it was coming to the knowledge that what he now possessed was of far greater glory so that his whole perspective was changed. In that sense it is not either/ or as the rich young ruler thought - it is truly all or nothing! He chose the nothing... Zack chose Life.

Indeed, covetousness can be much more than just money.

We all work through our carnal selves. Some just sever it like Zaccheus, some need to struggle against it as the young ruler did. There are many what ifs here, and we can guess, but we won' ever know. The point made is to be all for Christ no matter what we've got. We can't summarize and say that the young ruler didn't choose life.

Mograce2U
May 20th 2008, 03:25 AM
Indeed, covetousness can be much more than just money.

We all work through our carnal selves. Some just sever it like Zaccheus, some need to struggle against it as the young ruler did. There are many what ifs here, and we can guess, but we won' ever know. The point made is to be all for Christ no matter what we've got. We can't summarize and say that the young ruler didn't choose life.Why should we have to guess? Luke 18 puts the story of the rich young ruler in the proximity of the story about Zacchaeus with a story about a blind beggar receiving his sight in between. The key phrase in ch 18 is that what is impossible with man is possible with God. God must convert the man's heart just like He is the only One who can give sight to one born blind. And then we have this story about Zacchaues, a hated publican whom the Lord saved. I think the contrast is purposeful.

Scubadude
May 20th 2008, 03:32 AM
Mark 10:17-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%2010:17-22&version=49)

I think people incorrectly assume he did NOT end up selling everything he had because he went away "grieved"...

Honestly, the fact he went away grieved makes me think he DID end up selling his possessions, because it shows that he KNEW what the right thing to do was....No way he could be happy with his possessions the rest of his life knowing the truth.

Here are some things we can infer about the rich young ruler:


1) First, we can tell me was humble because he kneels in front of Jesus and physically shows that he is submitting himself to Jesus as an authority...As we know God gives grace to the humble, but is opposed to the proud.

2) Clearly, this was a righteous man that was very careful to glorify God with his life by following the Law...When he tells Jesus he has followed all the law since his youth, it says Jesus "felt a love for him"...I think that infers Jesus could tell that this man really did try to live a Godly life and was seeking after him.

Yes, he was grieved when he knew he'd have to give up all his possessions for Christ, but since when does grieving mean he'd never give it up?

For example, there are new believers out there that are grieved when they realize that they have to end a relationship with a boyfriend or girlfriend they love because that person is not a believer or seeking God...Doesn't mean they won't do it.

If I had to guess, I would say that the Ruler DID end up selling his possessions, and I believe that he is in heaven with Jesus.

I think the answer comes later in the text. The rich young man was a divine set up for Christ to make a point with his disciples. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." The disciples were amazed with what Jesus was saying. "Who then can be saved?" Why were they amazed?

God requires more from us than we think he should. The rich young man was devout to what he thought God required of him for salvation. He was grieved because he realized that more than he ever thought possible or reasonable was being required. We offer our effort, time, money, skills. He wants your life.

Teke
May 20th 2008, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't judge the man. As he is doing all he knows to please God. He likely believes his wealth is a blessing from God for obeying the commandments. And since he does obey the commandments he likely is charitable to others.

No matter how blessed we see ourselves, God always has more for us, if we can handle it. When we give all of ourselves to others aren't we showing who's children we really are......;)

threebigrocks
May 20th 2008, 02:47 PM
Why should we have to guess? Luke 18 puts the story of the rich young ruler in the proximity of the story about Zacchaeus with a story about a blind beggar receiving his sight in between. The key phrase in ch 18 is that what is impossible with man is possible with God. God must convert the man's heart just like He is the only One who can give sight to one born blind. And then we have this story about Zacchaues, a hated publican whom the Lord saved. I think the contrast is purposeful.

It is. But we still don't know what happened to the rich man. ;)

Mograce2U
May 21st 2008, 03:58 AM
It is. But we still don't know what happened to the rich man. ;)It would seem he went the way of the world, therefore nothing else need be said about him.

wtj
Jan 23rd 2009, 04:27 PM
Godly sorrow Jesus was leading the man into Godly sorrow - a brused reed he would not break. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. 2Cor. 7:10 - Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. Eccl. 7:3 - And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked. Mark 14:52

RabbiKnife
Jan 23rd 2009, 05:12 PM
I don't know.

I'll ask Paul when I see him!

:D