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allen_1971
May 16th 2008, 04:21 PM
I was just wondering, how would you define these 2 in modern english? I used to have some definitions, but recently i heard some sermons which broke this concept... So I'm wondering, what are you understanding of these words?

Clifton
May 16th 2008, 04:36 PM
Agapao = the strongest "love".
Phileo = lesser, as in "care".

John 21:15-17 Complete Apostles' Bible
15 So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I care for You." He said to him, "Feed My lambs."
16 He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" He said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I care for You." He said to him, "Shepherd My sheep."
17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you care for Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you care for Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I care for You." Jesus said to him, "Feed My sheep.

Blessings.

allen_1971
May 16th 2008, 04:42 PM
Yes that sort of lines up with my understanding as well... Ok take for example this verse

Joh 5:20 "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel.

Joh 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father.

the word "loves" in both verses is phileo, not agapao. How would we explain the use of phileo here?

Clifton
May 16th 2008, 04:51 PM
Yes that sort of lines up with my understanding as well... Ok take for example this verse

Joh 5:20 "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel.

Joh 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father.

the word "loves" in both verses is phileo, not agapao. How would we explain the use of phileo here?

Well, as I recall, there are about 4 Greek words where the English word "love" can appear, and I would suggest all of them apply to "loving, etc." The Son, and us.

The only two Greek words I can think of at the moment are to two you are addressing. I got to go here in a few minutes, but I will look these two Greek words up the WDNT Greek Dictionary, since it provides exegetical notes as well, and get back to ya later on (hopefully today).

Blessings.

Frances
May 16th 2008, 04:58 PM
My understanding is that 'philio' = brotherly love, and 'agape' = sacrificial love.

mikebr
May 16th 2008, 05:04 PM
CS Lewis' book called the Four Loves might be a good resource....According to how you feel about Lewis.

RogerW
May 16th 2008, 06:34 PM
Yes that sort of lines up with my understanding as well... Ok take for example this verse

Joh 5:20 "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel.

Joh 16:27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father.

the word "loves" in both verses is phileo, not agapao. How would we explain the use of phileo here?

Phileo denotes the object/person, but it does not seem to be a lessor love. Agapao denotes from where or how this love is possible, as from the mind and heart.

In Jo 21 Christ asks Peter if he loves [agapao] Him from the heart more than all things. Peter answers that he does indeed love [phileo; he is a friend of Christ] Him. Christ presses Peter further asking "do you love [agapao] Me from the heart?" Peter says, "Lord, You know that I love [phileo; am your friend] you this way." Finally the third time the Lord says, "Peter do you really love [phileo] Me as a friend?" In other words, "Am I truly the object of your love?" Peter acknowledging that the Lord knows all things tells the Lord, "You know that You are the object of my love [phileo], more than anything."

Joh 15:13 Greater love [agape] hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends [philos].

Jo 5:20 For the Father is fond [phileo] of the Son and is showing Him all that He is doing.

Jo 16:27 for the Father Himself is fond [phileo] of you, seeing that you have been fond [phileo] of Me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends [philos]; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love [agapao] one another.

Many Blessings,
RW

Teke
May 16th 2008, 07:22 PM
I was just wondering, how would you define these 2 in modern english? I used to have some definitions, but recently i heard some sermons which broke this concept... So I'm wondering, what are you understanding of these words?

Understanding is more in the use of the words.....and watch those prepositions.;)
Here are some critical notes from Appendix 135 of the KJV Companion Bible, you might find helpful. :)


135. THE SYNONYMOUS WORDS
FOR
"LOVE".



1. THE VERB.

1. agapao = to regard with favour, to make much of a thing or a person, on principle. The cause or ground of No. 2.

2. phileo = to kiss, to be fond of, having regard to feeling as distinct from principle. The demonstration of No. 1. Hence No. 2 is never used of man's love to God : this is always No. 1. Both words are used of God's love to man. No. 2 is used of the Lord's love for Lazarus (John 11:3, 36) but not in v. 5, where the sisters are included. See the notes on John 21:15-17; and on John 12:25.


2. THE NOUN.

1. agape. No. 2 below, was the common word used by the Greeks, for love; and even this is far lower than the N.T. philadelphia ( = love of the brethren). Agape is spontaneous love, irrespective of "rights". The word was supposed to be peculiar to the N.T., but it is found in the Papyri.

2. philanthropia = philanthropy, or love of man, which did not go beyond giving man his "rights", among the Greeks. It is used in a higher sense in Tit. 3:4; occurs elsewhere only in Acts 28:2. Cp. the Adverb philanthropos (Acts 27:3, "courteously").


3. THE ADJECTIVE.

agapetos = beloved. The word used of the Lord Jesus by the Father. See Matt. 3:17; 12:18; 17:5. Mark 1:11; 9:7. Luke 3:22; and in Mark 12:6. Luke 20:13, by Himself. A special epithet of the Saints in the Epistles.

allen_1971
May 17th 2008, 12:50 PM
Hmmm... I still don't get it. ..

to roger, i would agree with you that phileo does not seem to be any less than agape, but I can't help feeling that it is when I look at your use of "fond of" for phileo... which basically tells me I'm still missing the point.

to teke, in your description, it says that Agapao is the cause for no.2 meaning phileo is the effect of agapao? Did I misunderstand? In which case, phileo would be a "superset" of agapao (thus making it greater). Hmmm... again I think I'm missing something.:giveup:

1of7000
May 17th 2008, 01:12 PM
Agape is unconditional, spiritual love. God so loved...

Phileo is conditional, mental love. it's how you pick your friends.

Eros is conditional and hormonal. 'nuff said

Brother Mark
May 17th 2008, 01:23 PM
Peter, phileod Christ or loved him like a brother. That love was enough to cause him to be willing to die for Christ in the Garden. That's when Peter pulled out his sword and cut that guys ear off. Yet, when his emotions got the best of him, it wasn't enough to keep him from denying Christ.

Agape is what is described in 1 Cor 13.

When we understand the difference in the two, we know why Peter responded to Jesus question "Do you agape me" with "I phileo you".

Teke
May 17th 2008, 02:59 PM
to teke, in your description, it says that Agapao is the cause for no.2 meaning phileo is the effect of agapao? Did I misunderstand? In which case, phileo would be a "superset" of agapao (thus making it greater). Hmmm... again I think I'm missing something.:giveup:


Well, those are just verbs. Agapao is the basis (ground) of phileo. So agapao is your principal for the feelings of phileo, which has no regard to principal.

The nouns should clarify contrast best. Agape being a love without regard to anything. We might say it as, "careless love" or "careless abandon", meaning it is spontaneous, like "love at first sight". There is no reason or sense about it in that there is no criteria it must meet to be simply "love". This is why this sense is related of God. Love is an energy of God's which we share in. Hence we are capable of "love".

RJ Mac
May 17th 2008, 03:01 PM
STORGA - is the love in a family, mother for child etc.

EROS - is sexual love, romantic, two lovers.

PHILEO - is brotherly love, friendship love.

AGAPA - is seeking the best for another expecting nothing in return.

AGAPA - is not based on blood line, not based emotional, not based on friendship, it is commanded and you decide freely to AGAPA or not. But to AGAPA you need to love everyone.

RJ Mac