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fewarechosen
May 29th 2008, 02:23 PM
just a note i take nothing away from the apostles --they could baptise.

even in scripture some of there followers baptise.

again i take nothing away

see we have a differing view on christians
you think just anyone can call themselves christian and be so.

what i find interesting also is that you are basically saying every person ever h2o baptised in any church is christian.

the joy of all this is god will show us which is true -- and i have full faith in that

seamus414
May 29th 2008, 02:25 PM
just a note i take nothing away from the apostles --they could baptise.

even in scripture some of there followers baptise.

again i take nothing away

see we have a differing view on christians
you think just anyone can call themselves christian and be so.

what i find interesting also is that you are basically saying every person ever h2o baptised in any church is christian.

such great faith you have in man


No, I say none of those things. What I am saying is that your belief cannot be found anywhere in the history of Christendom.

Can you name for me ONE Christian (by any definition of "Christian") scholar or respected theolgian, or sage, or saint, or whatever that holds your view?

Buck shot
May 29th 2008, 04:34 PM
just a note i take nothing away from the apostles --they could baptise.

even in scripture some of there followers baptise.

again i take nothing away

see we have a differing view on christians
you think just anyone can call themselves christian and be so.

what i find interesting also is that you are basically saying every person ever h2o baptised in any church is christian.

the joy of all this is god will show us which is true -- and i have full faith in that

Those who are born again christains are to be as the apostles of today. We are to follow in their footsteps as they tried to do what Jesus told them to do. We are to do all that was told of them to do. Read below.

2 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

To know if someone has been called to do the work of the apostles (all Christains are called to do) we simply need to do as we were instructed in God's Word and see what fruit they yield.

This is gotten a long way from the OP's question.

:OFFT:Let's try to bring it back to "what age someone can be baptized".

I think the age is not important but the motive. If someone wants to be baptized to follow what Jesus said then they should be allowed. We should not pressure someone to be baptized as we should not pressure someone to tythe. If we are baptizing someone because it is law then it is futile. Just as giving without a giving heart, futile.

IamBill
May 29th 2008, 05:55 PM
He is talking about this below (Acts 8:35-38) and it does support his argument in that this baptism was in water. It does not mention the Holy Spirit as far as the eunuch is concerned.

As we know the Spirit fell on those that were not baptized as well as we know that if fell on those after they were only baptized with the baptism of John (Acts 8:16-17).

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

But... there are other scriptures besides these:

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

But here is his problem:

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

If we are not to be baptized with the Holy Spirit why mention it? :confused

John 4:1 When therefore the LORD knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

He has his reasons to beleive what he does and it is what he has been taught. Probably 95% of Christians believe that someday THE ANTICHRIST will come and it is widely accepted by most of the scribes he has quoted... but there is nothing to support it but tradition.

Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Somehow this argument has gone off track and turned to the water baptism vs spirit baptism. In which there is no doubt which is greater. I was dunked in water as a child and I knew not God until I was born of Spirit.

Water h2o baptism is not born of Spirit.

Michael


He is talking about this below (Acts 8:35-38) and it does support his argument in that this baptism was in water. It does not mention the Holy Spirit as far as the eunuch is concerned.
I agree, and this rather bold statement-
""The baptism authorized and commanded by Jesus Christ is immersion in water.""
Is NOT SUPPORTED By scripture.


Somehow this argument has gone off track and turned to the water baptism vs spirit baptism. In which there is no doubt which is greater. I was dunked in water as a child and I knew not God until I was born of Spirit.

Water h2o baptism is not born of Spirit.
I agree again (and ditto ;) )
Yes it has gone off track, It is important that "water baptism vs spirit baptism" is brought to light though-IMO.

Thanks :)

losthorizon
May 30th 2008, 04:11 AM
This is problem in talking to you... you make statements that are not backed up by scripture and are only how you would like them to read... however they do not!

There is no scripture that states the Holy Spirit is given to all when dunked in water... not h2o anyway!


I will respectfully disagree - those 3000 believers on the day of Pentecost asked the question all men should ask – “What shall we do to be saved?” Peter proclaimed to them the full gospel of Christ…those who BELIEVED must REPENT and be BAPTIZED and then their sins would be remitted and they would receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. All three requirements – belief, repentance and baptism in water are required –they are not optional. “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.” This is the NT pattern – ALL believers who obey the gospel of Christ receive the Holy Spirit at the point of baptism in water. It's all in the Book.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:37-38 (KJV)

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.1 Peter 3:21 (KJV)

seamus414
May 30th 2008, 12:36 PM
For those who do not think that water is involved in Christian baptism, how do you interpret 1 Peter 3:20-22? It is clear that Peter says Noah and family were saved through water (by the resurrection of Christ) and CHristians, too, are saved through the waters of baptism.

How can you possibly read this to mean that water is not involved?