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RogerW
May 18th 2008, 06:29 PM
Did you know that when one hears of Christ, the gospel of salvation, that hearing produces different kinds of faith?

Saving faith - what it is and what it is not.

Scripture shows us that upon hearing the gospel; the message of salvation, faith may be apparent in the hearer. Faith through hearing comes in different ways/reasons/types, and the faith produced is not necessarily saving faith. I would like to concentrate on four types of faith that can come from hearing of Christ.

1. The first type can be called historical faith. Upon hearing of Christ, historical faith believes the Bible is the Word of God, and all that is written is factual. This factual truth of Scripture is the same one might believe about facts written in other books. The facts don’t necessarily motivate or excite you because you do not understand how it all applies to you…it remains facts. Historical faith is natural and of the flesh, and is the kind of faith possessed by the devils/demons (Jam 2:19). King Agrippa (Acts 26) is a good example of one who possessed historical faith. Agrippa believed (had faith) the prophets (what was written about the Christ to come), but his faith did not enable him to see Christ. Apart from re-birth all faith remains historical faith.

2. The second type of faith is temporary or emotional faith. There is an immediate response to hearing of Christ, but it does not last because it is pushed out by our love for this world, and all the world has to offer. This type faith is motivated through our emotions. Our emotions can be stirred to this type of faith through any number of things; i.e. an emotionally driven sermon, emotionally moving music, or circumstances (whether good or bad). This type faith is fleeting emotions, not based upon the Word or truth, but by some experience or feeling. When we base faith on emotion or an experience it will only last until another emotion or experience changes the way we feel because our emotions shake and change us. It is a commitment to Christ that sustains us, not emotions or experiences.

3. The third type is miraculous or works faith. This type faith sees what others are able to do through faith, and seeing they want it too. This type of faith may come after having tried everything else, so now give Jesus a try. Thy faith is based on works. An example of one who possessed this type of faith is Simon the sorcerer (Acts 8). After seeing the power of the Holy Spirit working through the apostles, Simon thought he could purchase the power. Doing good works is not what moves us, we are moved by the power of God. Our abilities to do amazing good works for others or ourselves is not saving faith. We seek first the kingdom of God through self-denial, repentance, seeking His righteousness, His glory…He is our all.

4. Finally we have saving faith. Saving faith is through Jesus, by Jesus, in Jesus, of Jesus. True faith is not only knowledge and conviction that all is true, but assurance that I have been made right with God. It is not an intellectual consent to truth, but acting upon that truth…all of Christ, none of self. My sins are forgiven, I have been made right with God, I have Him forever and I KNOW it because it has been revealed to me through the Bible and the power of the Holy Spirit. I strive for obedience, not to be saved, but because I AM saved. Self-examination is vital in saving faith - do you realize that Jesus Christ is in you! Saving faith examines self, life, heart, conscience to be sure that I trust Him alone for salvation, and to be sure I live in obedience to His Word. Do I LIVE saving faith? Is my faith based on experience, emotion, biblical facts, or good works? If it is, it is NOT saving faith! Salvation is of the Lord!

Many Blessings,
RW

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 12:19 AM
Why does it matter, or why is it important to know that faith can be apparent upon hearing the gospel, but it is not necessarily saving faith? Could this have something to do with all the warnings to examine ourselves to see whether we have believed (have faith) in vain, or whether we have made shipwreck of faith etc.?

Blessings,
RW

DeadToSelf
May 19th 2008, 01:25 AM
Mark 1:15
"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdome of GOD is at hand; repent and belive in the gospel."

A sure sign of being saved is, that you repented and were reconciled with GOD and you are still repenting to this day and repenting in the days to come.

II Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that CHRIST JESUS is in you- unless, of course, you fail the test?"

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 01:30 AM
How can one have saving faith and not be emotional? :hmm:

DeadToSelf
May 19th 2008, 03:42 AM
What I think he meant was, well here is an example...

A youth group goes to a conference and gets all emotionally fired up then they come back from their conference and then their "fire" dies out. They were not actually put on fire by the Holy Spirit but though just some "preacher" that knows how to make people feel good about themselves.

So they were emotionally participating in their "revival" when in reality they were just bringing themselves more death through their not knowing the Word of GOD and not seeking to be like HIM but just to act as the world and pretend that they are saved but in reality they are as wicked and fleshly as the world.

However when one is turley saved then I would say that one would have all the types of faith...
Historical because we blelive that this all took place. 2000 years ago CHRIST died for us.
Emotional because when you feel the presence of GOD you cannot help but cry or jump around for the LORD.
Miraculouswe belive and the miacles happen
Saving we belive in CHRIST JESUS and through HIM we are justified
"He who endures till the end, he will be saved." Matthew 24:13

Oma
May 19th 2008, 04:40 AM
How can one have saving faith and not be emotional? :hmm:


A really good book to read is The Religious Affections by Jonathan Edwards.

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 12:36 PM
What I think he meant was, well here is an example...

A youth group goes to a conference and gets all emotionally fired up then they come back from their conference and then their "fire" dies out. They were not actually put on fire by the Holy Spirit but though just some "preacher" that knows how to make people feel good about themselves.

So they were emotionally participating in their "revival" when in reality they were just bringing themselves more death through their not knowing the Word of GOD and not seeking to be like HIM but just to act as the world and pretend that they are saved but in reality they are as wicked and fleshly as the world.

However when one is turley saved then I would say that one would have all the types of faith...
Historical because we blelive that this all took place. 2000 years ago CHRIST died for us.
Emotional because when you feel the presence of GOD you cannot help but cry or jump around for the LORD.
Miraculouswe belive and the miacles happen
Saving we belive in CHRIST JESUS and through HIM we are justified
"He who endures till the end, he will be saved." Matthew 24:13

Greetings DTS,

This is exactly what I meant. Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself. The point I want to make with this topic is that it is possible for one to demonstrate a faith upon hearing, and this faith not be unto salvation. Therefore it appears that salvation has been lost when the one professing a faith that is not saving faith turns away from the truth they heard.

Again, and again I have seen the many warning passages of Scripture, reminding us to examine ourselves to make sure of our salvation used to prove it is possible to have saving faith and fall away, or lose our salvation. In truth the only faith that one can and does fall away from is a faith that was produced not from the Word, and the power of the Holy Spirit but rather from human will and emotion.

I also agree that true saving faith will indeed be historical, emotional, and miraculous.

Thank you for the replies, they have been very helpful and encouraging.

Many Blessings,
RW

9Marksfan
May 19th 2008, 12:58 PM
Great thread, Roger! If more people would understand this, then I think we would have fewer silly claims that people are Christians purely because they either subscribe to 1. or experienced 2. or 3. at some stage but are nowhere spiritually now - James deals with the danger of believing in 1. and the parable of the sower deals with 2. and 4. - the gospel narratives show that the vast majority of Christ's "followers" while he ministered for those three years were 3. "believers" - yet they turned away when they were confronte with hard doctrine (eg John 6) or persecution or the radical terms of discipleship. Also, we would have fewer spurious confessions of faith and our churches would have a higher percentage of real believers (even if numerically theu might be smaller) - the LORD is far more interested in quality, not quantity!

Many blessings.

Nigel

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 01:04 PM
Which conversion experience did King Saul have? :hmm:

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 01:19 PM
Which conversion experience did King Saul have? :hmm:

Conversion experience of King Saul????

Blessings,
RW

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 01:21 PM
Conversion experience of King Saul????

Blessings,
RW

Yea. Which of the four did he have?

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 01:25 PM
Yea. Which of the four did he have?

Can you point me to this conversion experience of King Saul, because I don't find this in Scripture???

Blessings,
RW

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 01:28 PM
Can you point me to this conversion experience of King Saul, because I don't find this in Scripture???

Blessings,
RW


1 Sam 10:9-13

9 Then it happened when he turned his back to leave Samuel, God changed his heart; and all those signs came about on that day. 10 When they came to the hill there, behold, a group of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him mightily, so that he prophesied among them. 11 And it came about, when all who knew him previously saw that he prophesied now with the prophets, that the people said to one another, "What has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?" 12 And a man there answered and said, "Now, who is their father?" Therefore it became a proverb: "Is Saul also among the prophets?" 13 When he had finished prophesying, he came to the high place.
NASB

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 03:17 PM
1 Sam 10:9-13

9 Then it happened when he turned his back to leave Samuel, God changed his heart; and all those signs came about on that day. 10 When they came to the hill there, behold, a group of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him mightily, so that he prophesied among them. 11 And it came about, when all who knew him previously saw that he prophesied now with the prophets, that the people said to one another, "What has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?" 12 And a man there answered and said, "Now, who is their father?" Therefore it became a proverb: "Is Saul also among the prophets?" 13 When he had finished prophesying, he came to the high place.
NASB

I don't view this passage as a conversion experience. I view this passage as the providence of God carrying out His will through whatever means He desires. Without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6)...where do you find King Saul ever possessing faith? In the following verse does Saul worship the LORD out of faith, or to save face?

1Sa 15:31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.

Blessings,
RW

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 03:21 PM
I don't view this passage as a conversion experience. I view this passage as the providence of God carrying out His will through whatever means He desires. Without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb 11:6)...where do you find King Saul ever possessing faith? In the following verse does Saul worship the LORD out of faith, or to save face?

1Sa 15:31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.

Blessings,
RW

Well, Saul's heart was changed and he prophesied and the Spirit of God came on him. Sure seems like salvation to me. Without referring to the NT writing in Hebrews 11, where do you find Samson's salvation experience? We only see the faith through his actions. Ditto for Saul. And Lot, where was his experience recorded? Yet, the NT says he was righteous.

I think it's safe to say this was a salvation experience for Saul because he 1. His heart was changed. 2. The Holy Spirit came on him. 3. From the abundance of his heart, he prophesied about God.

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 04:02 PM
Well, Saul's heart was changed and he prophesied and the Spirit of God came on him. Sure seems like salvation to me. Without referring to the NT writing in Hebrews 11, where do you find Samson's salvation experience? We only see the faith through his actions. Ditto for Saul. And Lot, where was his experience recorded? Yet, the NT says he was righteous.

I think it's safe to say this was a salvation experience for Saul because he 1. His heart was changed. 2. The Holy Spirit came on him. 3. From the abundance of his heart, he prophesied about God.

God, on more than one occasion sent an evil spirit upon Saul. Can you show me ANYWHERE in Scripture where God sends evil spirits upon those whom He saves? I understand how you would like to keep me away from Heb 11 which proves without a doubt that Samson had faith. Perhaps this verse from the OT will convince you that Samson possessed faith, and was blessed of the LORD.

Jg 13:24 And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him.

Is there a verse in Scripture that says God blessed King Saul? As for Lot, the following passage (not Heb 11) shows he was just and righteous, therefore God delivered him from temptations.

2Pe 2:7 ¶ And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

And of course we do have recorded for us:

Ge 19:4 ¶ But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Ge 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Ge 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Ge 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Ge 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

It really wouldn't matter very much what I think, if I could not confirm my opinions through Scripture. I'm sure you are more interested in what the Bible says then you are in what I might think.

Since the op determines to show how faith that is not unto salvation can be manifested upon hearing of Christ, I wonder if you might have anything to add or something you disagree with concerning different types of faith?

Many Blessings,
RW

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 04:10 PM
God, on more than one occasion sent an evil spirit upon Saul. Can you show me ANYWHERE in Scripture where God sends evil spirits upon those whom He saves?

How about 1 Cor. 5? That man was turned over to Satan so that his body could be destroyed and his spirit saved.


I understand how you would like to keep me away from Heb 11 which proves without a doubt that Samson had faith. Perhaps this verse from the OT will convince you that Samson possessed faith, and was blessed of the LORD.

Jg 13:24 And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the LORD blessed him.

Is there a verse in Scripture that says God blessed King Saul? As for Lot, the following passage (not Heb 11) shows he was just and righteous, therefore God delivered him from temptations.I would think a new heart would be a blessing, along with speaking prophetically.



2Pe 2:7 ¶ And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

And of course we do have recorded for us:

Ge 19:4 ¶ But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
Ge 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Ge 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Ge 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Ge 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

It really wouldn't matter very much what I think, if I could not confirm my opinions through Scripture. I'm sure you are more interested in what the Bible says then you are in what I might think.

Since the op determines to show how faith that is not unto salvation can be manifested upon hearing of Christ, I wonder if you might have anything to add or something you disagree with concerning different types of faith?

Many Blessings,
RWLot went on to get drunk and sleep with his daughters. Not very convincing behavior for a man that was saved. ;)

I think the OP is much speculation and that was why I brought up Saul. It takes a doctrine and then tries to explain away men's experiences. That's why I asked about Saul's experience. Which one did he have? Was it real?

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 04:48 PM
How about 1 Cor. 5? That man was turned over to Satan so that his body could be destroyed and his spirit saved.

I would think a new heart would be a blessing, along with speaking prophetically.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This is an expression for excommunication. In other words excluding the man in unrepentant sin from fellowship in the church, he is turned back to the kingdom of the world under the power and dominion of Satan. In this sense he is placed under the control of Satan in the hopes that this discipline will cause him to repent, and then he will be allowed back in. This thought becomes clear when read in full context.

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

We see Paul administering the same discipline to Hymenaeus and Alexander, who made shipwreck concerning faith. Here is an example of some who appeared to be saved, they showed some evidence of faith, and yet the faith they had did not save them; it was not saving faith.

1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.



Lot went on to get drunk and sleep with his daughters. Not very convincing behavior for a man that was saved.

If a perfect sinless life is necessary of one who is saved, then who can be saved? Who can claim a sinless life after salvation? Not even Paul could! Yet knowing we all sin, even after salvation, if we possess saving faith, as Lot apparently did, we are assured eternal life because our salvation is forever.



I think the OP is much speculation and that was why I brought up Saul. It takes a doctrine and then tries to explain away men's experiences. That's why I asked about Saul's experience. Which one did he have? Was it real?

But you haven't shown how the op is much speculation, especially not through the example of King Saul. All of Saul's experiences have to do with him being ordained by God to be the King, but his experiences do nothing to show that King Saul ever possessed faith. You can't argue for or against faith that Saul did not possess.

Blessings,
RW

alethos
May 19th 2008, 05:51 PM
How can one have saving faith and not be emotional? :hmm:

A+...................................

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 05:53 PM
But you haven't shown how the op is much speculation, especially not through the example of King Saul. All of Saul's experiences have to do with him being ordained by God to be the King, but his experiences do nothing to show that King Saul ever possessed faith. You can't argue for or against faith that Saul did not possess.

Blessings,
RW

So God will give his Spirit to those that are not his? :hmm:

alethos
May 19th 2008, 05:54 PM
Conversion experience of King Saul????

Blessings,
RW

Some folks obviously only have a New Testament

RogerW
May 19th 2008, 06:18 PM
So God will give his Spirit to those that are not his? :hmm:

Yes, as a matter of fact God did. But remember this is prior to Pentecost.

Nu 24:2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.

2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Re 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

After Pentecost we are assured that when we receive the Holy Spirit we are sealed until the day of redemption.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

And we further have the promise of God that He will never leave nor forsake His own.

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Blessings,
RW

Brother Mark
May 19th 2008, 06:21 PM
Yes, as a matter of fact God did. But remember this is prior to Pentecost.

Nu 24:2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.

2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Re 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

After Pentecost we are assured that when we receive the Holy Spirit we are sealed until the day of redemption.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

And we further have the promise of God that He will never leave nor forsake His own.

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Blessings,
RW

And what was the doctrine of Balaam? That's a very interesting case indeed! But his heart wasn't changed as was Saul's.

Also, isn't it interesting that in Matthew 18, we are told that even believers can be turned over to tormentors.

Scubadude
May 20th 2008, 03:47 AM
If more people would understand this, then I think we would have fewer silly claims that people are Christians purely because they either subscribe to 1. or experienced 2. or 3. at some stage but are nowhere spiritually now .............................Also, we would have fewer spurious confessions of faith and our churches would have a higher percentage of real believers (even if numerically theu might be smaller) - the LORD is far more interested in quality, not quantity!

Many blessings.

Nigel


Ahh, what the heck. I say love'em all, and let God sort them out.

:thumbsup:

alethos
May 20th 2008, 04:11 PM
Did you know that when one hears of Christ, the gospel of salvation, that hearing produces different kinds of faith?

Saving faith - what it is and what it is not.

Scripture shows us that upon hearing the gospel; the message of salvation, faith may be apparent in the hearer. Faith through hearing comes in different ways/reasons/types, and the faith produced is not necessarily saving faith. I would like to concentrate on four types of faith that can come from hearing of Christ.

1. The first type can be called historical faith. Upon hearing of Christ, historical faith believes the Bible is the Word of God, and all that is written is factual. This factual truth of Scripture is the same one might believe about facts written in other books. The facts don’t necessarily motivate or excite you because you do not understand how it all applies to you…it remains facts. Historical faith is natural and of the flesh, and is the kind of faith possessed by the devils/demons (Jam 2:19). King Agrippa (Acts 26) is a good example of one who possessed historical faith. Agrippa believed (had faith) the prophets (what was written about the Christ to come), but his faith did not enable him to see Christ. Apart from re-birth all faith remains historical faith.

2. The second type of faith is temporary or emotional faith. There is an immediate response to hearing of Christ, but it does not last because it is pushed out by our love for this world, and all the world has to offer. This type faith is motivated through our emotions. Our emotions can be stirred to this type of faith through any number of things; i.e. an emotionally driven sermon, emotionally moving music, or circumstances (whether good or bad). This type faith is fleeting emotions, not based upon the Word or truth, but by some experience or feeling. When we base faith on emotion or an experience it will only last until another emotion or experience changes the way we feel because our emotions shake and change us. It is a commitment to Christ that sustains us, not emotions or experiences.

3. The third type is miraculous or works faith. This type faith sees what others are able to do through faith, and seeing they want it too. This type of faith may come after having tried everything else, so now give Jesus a try. Thy faith is based on works. An example of one who possessed this type of faith is Simon the sorcerer (Acts 8). After seeing the power of the Holy Spirit working through the apostles, Simon thought he could purchase the power. Doing good works is not what moves us, we are moved by the power of God. Our abilities to do amazing good works for others or ourselves is not saving faith. We seek first the kingdom of God through self-denial, repentance, seeking His righteousness, His glory…He is our all.

4. Finally we have saving faith. Saving faith is through Jesus, by Jesus, in Jesus, of Jesus. True faith is not only knowledge and conviction that all is true, but assurance that I have been made right with God. It is not an intellectual consent to truth, but acting upon that truth…all of Christ, none of self. My sins are forgiven, I have been made right with God, I have Him forever and I KNOW it because it has been revealed to me through the Bible and the power of the Holy Spirit. I strive for obedience, not to be saved, but because I AM saved. Self-examination is vital in saving faith - do you realize that Jesus Christ is in you! Saving faith examines self, life, heart, conscience to be sure that I trust Him alone for salvation, and to be sure I live in obedience to His Word. Do I LIVE saving faith? Is my faith based on experience, emotion, biblical facts, or good works? If it is, it is NOT saving faith! Salvation is of the Lord!

Many Blessings,
RW

That sort of resembles what is written in Easton's Bible Dictionary (see below)

FAITH
"Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain
statement is true (Phil. 1:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:13). Its primary idea is
trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many
degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on
which it rests.
Faith is the result of teaching (Romans 10:14-17). Knowledge is an
essential element in all faith, and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent
to faith (John 10:38; 1 John 2:3). Yet the two are distinguished in this
respect, that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will in
addition to the act of the understanding. Assent to the truth is of the
essence of faith, and the ultimate ground on which our assent to any
revealed truth rests is the veracity of God.
Historical faith is the apprehension of and assent to certain statements
which are regarded as mere facts of history.
Temporary faith is that state of mind which is awakened in men (e.g.,
Felix) by the exhibition of the truth and by the influence of religious
sympathy, or by what is sometimes styled the common operation of the
Holy Spirit.
Saving faith is so called because it has eternal life inseparably connected with it. It cannot be better defined than in the words of the Assembly’s Shorter Catechism: “Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel.”
The object of saving faith is the whole revealed Word of God. Faith
accepts and believes it as the very truth most sure. But the special act of
faith which unites to Christ has as its object the person and the work of
the Lord Jesus Christ (John 7:38; Acts 16:31). This is the specific act of
faith by which a sinner is justified before God (Romans 3:22, 25; Galatians
2:16; Phil. 3:9; John 3:16-36; Acts 10:43; 16:31). In this act of faith the
believer appropriates and rests on Christ alone as Mediator in all his
offices.
This assent to or belief in the truth received upon the divine testimony has
always associated with it a deep sense of sin, a distinct view of Christ, a consenting will, and a loving heart, together with a reliance on, a trusting in,
or resting in Christ. It is that state of mind in which a poor sinner,
conscious of his sin, flees from his guilty self to Christ his Saviour, and
rolls over the burden of all his sins on him. It consists chiefly, not in the
assent given to the testimony of God in his Word, but in embracing with
fiducial reliance and trust the one and only Saviour whom God reveals.
This trust and reliance is of the essence of faith. By faith the believer
directly and immediately appropriates Christ as his own. Faith in its direct
act makes Christ ours. It is not a work which God graciously accepts
instead of perfect obedience, but is only the hand by which we take hold
of the person and work of our Redeemer as the only ground of our
salvation.
Saving faith is a moral act, as it proceeds from a renewed will, and a
renewed will is necessary to believing assent to the truth of God (1
Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:4). Faith, therefore, has its seat in the
moral part of our nature fully as much as in the intellectual. The mind must
first be enlightened by divine teaching (John 6:44; Acts 13:48; 2
Corinthians 4:6; Ephesians 1:17, 18) before it can discern the things of the
Spirit.
Faith is necessary to our salvation (Mark 16:16), not because there is any
merit in it, but simply because it is the sinner’s taking the place assigned
him by God, his falling in with what God is doing.
The warrant or ground of faith is the divine testimony, not the
reasonableness of what God says, but the simple fact that he says it. Faith
rests immediately on, “Thus saith the Lord.” But in order to this faith the
veracity, sincerity, and truth of God must be owned and appreciated,
together with his unchangeableness. God’s word encourages and
emboldens the sinner personally to transact with Christ as God’s gift, to
close with him, embrace him, give himself to Christ, and take Christ as his.
That word comes with power, for it is the word of God who has revealed
himself in his works, and especially in the cross. God is to be believed for
his word’s sake, but also for his name’s sake.
Faith in Christ secures for the believer freedom from condemnation, or
justification before God; a participation in the life that is in Christ, the
divine life (John 14:19; Romans 6:4-10; Ephesians 4:15,16, etc.); “peace with God” (Romans 5:1); and sanctification (Acts 26:18; Galatians 5:6;
Acts 15:9).
All who thus believe in Christ will certainly be saved (John 6:37, 40;
10:27, 28; Romans 8:1).
The faith=the gospel (Acts 6:7; Romans 1:5; Galatians 1:23; 1 Timothy
3:9; Jude 1:3)."

RogerW
May 22nd 2008, 02:49 PM
That sort of resembles what is written in Easton's Bible Dictionary (see below)

FAITH
"Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain
statement is true (Phil. 1:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:13). Its primary idea is
trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many
degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on
which it rests.
Faith is the result of teaching (Romans 10:14-17). Knowledge is an
essential element in all faith, and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent
to faith (John 10:38; 1 John 2:3). Yet the two are distinguished in this
respect, that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will in
addition to the act of the understanding. Assent to the truth is of the
essence of faith, and the ultimate ground on which our assent to any
revealed truth rests is the veracity of God.
Historical faith is the apprehension of and assent to certain statements
which are regarded as mere facts of history.
Temporary faith is that state of mind which is awakened in men (e.g.,
Felix) by the exhibition of the truth and by the influence of religious
sympathy, or by what is sometimes styled the common operation of the
Holy Spirit.
Saving faith is so called because it has eternal life inseparably connected with it. It cannot be better defined than in the words of the Assembly’s Shorter Catechism: “Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel.”
The object of saving faith is the whole revealed Word of God. Faith
accepts and believes it as the very truth most sure. But the special act of
faith which unites to Christ has as its object the person and the work of
the Lord Jesus Christ (John 7:38; Acts 16:31). This is the specific act of
faith by which a sinner is justified before God (Romans 3:22, 25; Galatians
2:16; Phil. 3:9; John 3:16-36; Acts 10:43; 16:31). In this act of faith the
believer appropriates and rests on Christ alone as Mediator in all his
offices.
This assent to or belief in the truth received upon the divine testimony has
always associated with it a deep sense of sin, a distinct view of Christ, a consenting will, and a loving heart, together with a reliance on, a trusting in,
or resting in Christ. It is that state of mind in which a poor sinner,
conscious of his sin, flees from his guilty self to Christ his Saviour, and
rolls over the burden of all his sins on him. It consists chiefly, not in the
assent given to the testimony of God in his Word, but in embracing with
fiducial reliance and trust the one and only Saviour whom God reveals.
This trust and reliance is of the essence of faith. By faith the believer
directly and immediately appropriates Christ as his own. Faith in its direct
act makes Christ ours. It is not a work which God graciously accepts
instead of perfect obedience, but is only the hand by which we take hold
of the person and work of our Redeemer as the only ground of our
salvation.
Saving faith is a moral act, as it proceeds from a renewed will, and a
renewed will is necessary to believing assent to the truth of God (1
Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:4). Faith, therefore, has its seat in the
moral part of our nature fully as much as in the intellectual. The mind must
first be enlightened by divine teaching (John 6:44; Acts 13:48; 2
Corinthians 4:6; Ephesians 1:17, 18) before it can discern the things of the
Spirit.
Faith is necessary to our salvation (Mark 16:16), not because there is any
merit in it, but simply because it is the sinner’s taking the place assigned
him by God, his falling in with what God is doing.
The warrant or ground of faith is the divine testimony, not the
reasonableness of what God says, but the simple fact that he says it. Faith
rests immediately on, “Thus saith the Lord.” But in order to this faith the
veracity, sincerity, and truth of God must be owned and appreciated,
together with his unchangeableness. God’s word encourages and
emboldens the sinner personally to transact with Christ as God’s gift, to
close with him, embrace him, give himself to Christ, and take Christ as his.
That word comes with power, for it is the word of God who has revealed
himself in his works, and especially in the cross. God is to be believed for
his word’s sake, but also for his name’s sake.
Faith in Christ secures for the believer freedom from condemnation, or
justification before God; a participation in the life that is in Christ, the
divine life (John 14:19; Romans 6:4-10; Ephesians 4:15,16, etc.); “peace with God” (Romans 5:1); and sanctification (Acts 26:18; Galatians 5:6;
Acts 15:9).
All who thus believe in Christ will certainly be saved (John 6:37, 40;
10:27, 28; Romans 8:1).
The faith=the gospel (Acts 6:7; Romans 1:5; Galatians 1:23; 1 Timothy
3:9; Jude 1:3)."

Thank you for posting this. It's always good to have confirmation. It would seem that I am not the only student of the Word that believes 'hearing' of Christ can bring one to a type of faith that is NOT unto salvation. This of course is why some think it is possible to fall away from saving faith and lose our salvation. In reality the only faith they are falling from was an external faith.

Many Blessings,
RW