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View Full Version : OSAS vs NOSAS, FREEWILL vs PREDESTINATION, Baptism, Gifts, blah blah blah



ProjectPeter
May 20th 2008, 07:11 PM
How easy is it for all of us to get so caught up in doctrinal differences and whatnot. The discussions are fun and hey... I love it. But then somewhere along the line... we forget what it is really all about.

Feed the poor: But there are programs. But the government will help them. Give them the number to meals on wheels. Everyone has their excuses. Tell me something... have you ever made one of those recommendations and then gone to your cupboard full of food, open the full refrigerator, and then prepare quite the meal for you and yours?

1 John 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.

How can the love of God be in you?

Cloth the naked, Visit the sick and those in prison, house the stranger: We have ministries that take care of that. The hospital won't let me do that any more. You can't trust people any more and they could be an ax murderer. They have hotels and dollar menus at McDonald's now days.

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.´
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?´
45 "Then He will answer them, saying, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.´
46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Sheep or a goat?

Tend to the widow and orphan: More programs and programs and programs.

James 1:27 This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

How defiled is your religion?


Yeah... we major on a lot now and again and like I said... we can discuss this stuff. But how hard has our hearts become? Look around you right now... if you can't see this then you are either blind or hard hearted... or worse... both.

VerticalReality
May 20th 2008, 07:17 PM
How easy is it for all of us to get so caught up in doctrinal differences and whatnot. The discussions are fun and hey... I love it. But then somewhere along the line... we forget what it is really all about.

Feed the poor: But there are programs. But the government will help them. Give them the number to meals on wheels. Everyone has their excuses. Tell me something... have you ever made one of those recommendations and then gone to your cupboard full of food, open the full refrigerator, and then prepare quite the meal for you and yours?

1 John 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.

How can the love of God be in you?

Cloth the naked, Visit the sick and those in prison, house the stranger: We have ministries that take care of that. The hospital won't let me do that any more. You can't trust people any more and they could be an ax murderer. They have hotels and dollar menus at McDonald's now days.

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.´
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?´
45 "Then He will answer them, saying, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.´
46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Sheep or a goat?

Tend to the widow and orphan: More programs and programs and programs.

James 1:27 This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

How defiled is your religion?


Yeah... we major on a lot now and again and like I said... we can discuss this stuff. But how hard has our hearts become? Look around you right now... if you can't see this then you are either blind or hard hearted... or worse... both.

I saw the title of this post and thought to myself that you are about to begin the longest thread in bibleforums history.:lol:

Good Scriptures, though.

ProjectPeter
May 20th 2008, 07:21 PM
It's all in the titles... folks may not respond but they'll sure enough come in to see the ruckus. In the process... perhaps a prick of the heart. ;)

IamBill
May 20th 2008, 07:31 PM
Amen :)


How easy is it for all of us to get so caught up in doctrinal differences and whatnot. The discussions are fun and hey... I love it. But then somewhere along the line... we forget what it is really all about.

I imagine the potential that is held by members of this board if everyone could work together

..then sigh :lol:

moonglow
May 20th 2008, 07:52 PM
Now I didn't have any extra food to give this last pick up..but I DO have a huge pile of clothes collected that I am going to take down to a church that gives these clothes out for free (unlike Goodwill or the Salvation army that do charge for them) while they cost little there...some people simply do not have any money at all! I give to the Women's shelter...sometimes these women flee with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They have nothing...

They certainly don't have the money to buy clothes for themselves or their children. Since the shelter's office moved they no longer have room for direct donations so I have to take it to this church but was reassured it would get to them. They were able to accept a sack of brand new toothpastes I had collected...(every time my mom goes to Sam's she picks up a tube of toothpaste for me...I have no idea why...and its a kind I can't use either.) so I just saved them then took them all down there. :lol: That way they don't go to waste. Toothpaste is expensive! And no one ever thinks about people needing toothpaste, or shampoo or soap....things we take for granted. So think about those women next time you have you are overstocked in things like that!

Good post Peter! Even us poor people can find something to give. These pile of clothes were given to me as leftovers from a garage sale my sister had that involved seven families. I usually include shoes Nate's outgrown, toys, and books he has outgrown, also for the children...who have nothing....

God bless

Scubadude
May 20th 2008, 07:56 PM
Yeah... we major on a lot now and again and like I said... we can discuss this stuff. But how hard has our hearts become? Look around you right now... if you can't see this then you are either blind or hard hearted... or worse... both.


Or even worse, you are both, and you think you are helping people.


Over 21K posts?! WOW! I imagine you've seen it all. I've only been posting on Christian boards for a few weeks, and I am weary with wrangling words.

I think you deserve a vacation......... Or maybe need to find a profession?

:lol:

Buck shot
May 20th 2008, 08:10 PM
I imagine the potential that is held by members of this board if everyone could work together


:agree: You'r right Ken, the title will draw almost everyone! Good Job :yes:

crawfish
May 20th 2008, 08:18 PM
I agree fully. The single best thing we can do to advance God's kingdom is to do true, selfless service in His name. Preaching the gospel is vitally important, of course, but service is what sets peoples' minds in a state where they are most receptive to it. Like love and marriage, you can't have one without the other. :)

Partaker of Christ
May 20th 2008, 08:20 PM
Hi Ken!

Great post and very apt.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Perhaps off topic, but why did Jesus not quote all of Isaiah at the end of Luke 4:19?
Do you think that it is because He will fulfil that part when He returns?

Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

karenoka27
May 20th 2008, 08:36 PM
what drew me here was the "blah, blah, blah"...I thought "now your talking!

Excellent post PP..and none of us can argue or debate that! There is nothing like good conviction for our hearts...thanks.

ProjectPeter
May 20th 2008, 09:17 PM
Amen :)



I imagine the potential that is held by members of this board if everyone could work together

..then sigh :lol:Sure... and imagine if every Christian donated ten bucks or bags of food and or clothes every two weeks? Not talking the poor Christian folk but those that actually have some extra. None of the poor Christians would be hungry, naked, out in the cold... etc. When done taking care of the household of faith... we'd have much left to take care of others as well testifying of our great faith. Yeah... imagine. :)

amazzin
May 20th 2008, 10:33 PM
I believe that it is up to believers of our nations to be the change we want to see in the world. Poverty, hunger, lack of clean water, slavery are just a few of the diseases that plague the earth and the only cure for them are people who are ready to fight and who refuse to let them continue in that state. It’s time for the "church" to stand up, to let our voices be heard and move together in action to eradicate social injustice from our world. If you have ever wanted to be apart of something bigger than yourself I dare you to explore possibilites of what only $10 can do and let your passion and desires move you to action. Give to the Red Cross or your local soup kitchen. Don't complain that you have no money when you have resources beyond all measure, if even donating your time or giving away your old clothes. If you actually open your eyes and look you will find and see the needs around you.

timmyb
May 20th 2008, 11:10 PM
Oh the days of the old Salvation Army... soap soup and salvation they offered...

amazzin
May 20th 2008, 11:14 PM
Oh the days of the old Salvation Army... soap soup and salvation they offered...

Do you see this as one of the solutions to our nations needs? Has the "church" begun to focus in areas that cause them to forget the hungry, the poor, widows, orphans and homeless?

IamBill
May 20th 2008, 11:38 PM
Though I was referring to the wisdom God has graced many member here with.

I suddenly feel convicted too, I could give 20 a month, it would be the 20 that gives me this little community though.

wow, should I say good-bye to you all and the internet ?

I am suddenly very troubled by this :confused

amazzin
May 20th 2008, 11:45 PM
Though I was referring to the wisdom God has graced many member here with.

I suddenly feel convicted too, I could give 20 a month, it would be the 20 that gives me this little community though.

wow, should I say good-bye to you all and the internet ?

I am suddenly very troubled by this :confused

There are many places you can give to locally. United way, Salvation Army, etc. But my prayer is that the local church and the "church" (us) will do what is required of us.

God Bless you and multiple your faith seed!

9Marksfan
May 20th 2008, 11:46 PM
Very challenging post, Ken - we would all do well to take heed to what we are actually DOING in these areas.......

ProjectPeter
May 21st 2008, 12:12 AM
Now I didn't have any extra food to give this last pick up..but I DO have a huge pile of clothes collected that I am going to take down to a church that gives these clothes out for free (unlike Goodwill or the Salvation army that do charge for them) while they cost little there...some people simply do not have any money at all! I give to the Women's shelter...sometimes these women flee with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They have nothing...

They certainly don't have the money to buy clothes for themselves or their children. Since the shelter's office moved they no longer have room for direct donations so I have to take it to this church but was reassured it would get to them. They were able to accept a sack of brand new toothpastes I had collected...(every time my mom goes to Sam's she picks up a tube of toothpaste for me...I have no idea why...and its a kind I can't use either.) so I just saved them then took them all down there. :lol: That way they don't go to waste. Toothpaste is expensive! And no one ever thinks about people needing toothpaste, or shampoo or soap....things we take for granted. So think about those women next time you have you are overstocked in things like that!

Good post Peter! Even us poor people can find something to give. These pile of clothes were given to me as leftovers from a garage sale my sister had that involved seven families. I usually include shoes Nate's outgrown, toys, and books he has outgrown, also for the children...who have nothing....

God blessMost folks can always do something... even if it is just to share a bite of food.

ProjectPeter
May 21st 2008, 12:20 AM
Or even worse, you are both, and you think you are helping people.


Over 21K posts?! WOW! I imagine you've seen it all. I've only been posting on Christian boards for a few weeks, and I am weary with wrangling words.

I think you deserve a vacation......... Or maybe need to find a profession?

:lol:
It's a calling no doubt. ;)

And yeah... it is possible to be both and that is more frightening.

ProjectPeter
May 21st 2008, 12:24 AM
I agree fully. The single best thing we can do to advance God's kingdom is to do true, selfless service in His name. Preaching the gospel is vitally important, of course, but service is what sets peoples' minds in a state where they are most receptive to it. Like love and marriage, you can't have one without the other. :)That's right... together you are doing it very rightly!

ProjectPeter
May 21st 2008, 12:26 AM
Hi Ken!

Great post and very apt.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Perhaps off topic, but why did Jesus not quote all of Isaiah at the end of Luke 4:19?
Do you think that it is because He will fulfil that part when He returns?

Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Yes... that wouldn't have been fufilled. The fulfilled part was what he was letting them know.

ProjectPeter
May 21st 2008, 12:30 AM
Though I was referring to the wisdom God has graced many member here with.

I suddenly feel convicted too, I could give 20 a month, it would be the 20 that gives me this little community though.

wow, should I say good-bye to you all and the internet ?

I am suddenly very troubled by this :confused
In all honesty... If I was convicted of this and the only place I could cut to give to help another was my Internet connection... it would be gone. Treasures in heaven way trump anything on this thing. :) If it was for your survival then I'd say the church should give to you. If you honestly can only cut out the net and have 20 bucks to give... then why not go down and work the soup line at a shelter. Give folks something better than silver and gold... give them the name of Christ? Something... just something is better than nothing.

IamBill
May 21st 2008, 12:41 AM
There are many places you can give to locally. United way, Salvation Army, etc. But my prayer is that the local church and the "church" (us) will do what is required of us.

God Bless you and multiple your faith seed!

Thank you and may God pour his blessings on each of you

But there is no local "anything" near me amazzin, churches that meet at the bars after service. Sorry, I'll pass.
I was disabled 8 years ago and am extremely limited in funds and mobility.
But I am Happy, I can greet everyday with a smile and "I" don't live in a cardboard Box starving.
:confused
:confused
Is there propose for me being on this forum ? :cry:

SIG
May 21st 2008, 02:13 AM
Thank you and may God pour his blessings on each of you

But there is no local "anything" near me amazzin, churches that meet at the bars after service. Sorry, I'll pass.
I was disabled 8 years ago and am extremely limited in funds and mobility.
But I am Happy, I can greet everyday with a smile and "I" don't live in a cardboard Box starving.
:confused
:confused
Is there propose for me being on this forum ? :cry:

We all have the same Sprit, but not the same ministry. Do what you are doing and be at peace.

Is there a purpose for your being here? Yes!

IamBill
May 21st 2008, 02:16 AM
I thought I had given everything i could give, and helped others in anyway i could, every chance I could. It made me feel good, useful. there isn't much I can do though. I fool myself
Since I am below income level for filing taxes, I received an application for the "stimulus check".
Thinking it could help our country or future of the kids, I threw it in the trash. it was not easy to do ...I was proud of that !

I sit here now convicted, crushed to my very soul, I have NOT given all I can give.
It is Fear of the "isolation" that this means for me and I know better, but it IS. That is what worries me, I should know better.

Thank you Ken for this thread, and God for inspiring it, I believe it was intended for me.
I feel better already.
I have two-three weeks left

moonglow
May 21st 2008, 03:02 AM
I thought I had given everything i could give, and helped others in anyway i could, every chance I could. It made me feel good, useful. there isn't much I can do though. I fool myself
Since I am below income level for filing taxes, I received an application for the "stimulus check".
Thinking it could help our country or future of the kids, I threw it in the trash. it was not easy to do ...I was proud of that !

I sit here now convicted, crushed to my very soul, I have NOT given all I can give.
It is Fear of the "isolation" that this means for me and I know better, but it IS. That is what worries me, I should know better.

Thank you Ken for this thread, and God for inspiring it, I believe it was intended for me.
I feel better already.
I have two-three weeks left

PLEASE do not cut your internet connection!

I mean I realize this is between you and God of course...but I am disabled too and the internet is my life line TO people. I can witness to people halfway around the world using this thing! Something I could not do without it. I don't worry one bit about people being witnessed too in my town...not with a church on every corner! There are alot of things I cannot physically do...if you can work in a soup kitchen and get there..and physically be able to do it, then by all means do it...(if they have one).

This is the way I see it..most of my giving is done online...through my work I do..my witnessing and reaching those that really need someone...by living like Jesus and just loving them. Of course I do that when I get a chance in real life too but as I said, I am also disabled and low income. I give what I can give and the Lord knows I am doing my best in that area. I have given to the food bank many times so I don't feel guilty if I miss out on one pick up on that at all. One of the things Jesus said to give was simply our time...visit the sick and those in prison. Matthew 25:31-37. It doesn't always have to be material things or money either. I have given ALOT of my time over the years too...if time could translate into money I would have given a million easily.

I would suggest you take the 20 for internet and ask God what you can do with it. Image reaching someone on the other side of the world and leading them to Christ with that 20$? Now that would be amazing!

One of my main goals on the net, besides witnessing is working with Christians that are on the edge of falling away from their faith. I see far too many struggling because they don't know enough...are new, are under going spiritual attacks, many different struggles and either afraid to go to their church or not getting the answer they need in church. To me that is just as important as witnessing. I don't know anyone...not one single person that hasn't heard about Jesus Christ. Not hear in America...not in any first world country. They have heard...and have chosen to seek or reject. Working with those that are seeking is extremely important work indeed and help those new in the faith. You can use the 20 to reach hundreds..or use that 20 to donate to one ...and not have internet...I don't know what your disability is..if you can get out or not of course..I don't know how limited you are...but please consider these things and pray about it...ok? I would hate to see you sitting home alone with nothing to do and unable to get out...that isn't going to help anyone.

We are to be in fellowship with other Christians...the bible says, its not good for man to be alone (I realize this was referring to marriage) but why do people tend to live together in towns? Group together as we do? Because we need each other. Too many people that retire and sit at home alone...don't live very long..they get depressed, don't eat enough, have nothing to look forward too...this can easily happen to those of us that are disabled that can't get out and just do things. Plus the cost of gas..makes it even harder to get out..can't afford it. I am deeply concerned about seeing you being cut off from people..having no church and no one around...over 20$ a month! I mean YOU are important too! Shoot I would send you 20$ a month just to keep you online! I am serious...and that concerned! We can't give to the point we injure ourselves...then we help no one...ok????

Please pray about this deeply before you make any finally desions on it...



God Bless

ProjectPeter
May 21st 2008, 11:17 AM
The one thing that I will say Bill... Make sure it is conviction and not self-condemnation. If it is the latter... then all you would be doing is following the flesh. If it is conviction and you have no doubt of that... then do what you are led by the Spirit to do.

Like I told you before... if all that you could possibly squeeze out of your income extra a month is a 20 dollar bill that you use to have the net... then I'd count you among the folks that the church could help with being disabled etc. There are ways that even the poor can help even though it isn't with money. Time... and even disabled there are groups out there who you could help. Do some research in these two to three weeks. See what you can find and during that time... shoot me a PM and tell me what you are finding. :)

Son_kissed
May 21st 2008, 01:16 PM
I thought I had given everything i could give, and helped others in anyway i could, every chance I could. It made me feel good, useful. there isn't much I can do though. I fool myself
Since I am below income level for filing taxes, I received an application for the "stimulus check".
Thinking it could help our country or future of the kids, I threw it in the trash. it was not easy to do ...I was proud of that !

I sit here now convicted, crushed to my very soul, I have NOT given all I can give.
It is Fear of the "isolation" that this means for me and I know better, but it IS. That is what worries me, I should know better.

Thank you Ken for this thread, and God for inspiring it, I believe it was intended for me.
I feel better already.
I have two-three weeks left

I wouldn't dare talk anybody out of anything they feel very strongly that God is leading them to do, but can I just ask you, as others have, to pray about this over the next couple of weeks and then make a final decision.

Funny I'm even saying this, because I was happy and praising God to see this thread and it's responses. A couple of years ago a dear friend of mine made several very similar posts to the one PP started here and they were never well received.

But, that said, God can bless your time and money online and on this message board, too, Bill, if that's what He wants to do.

Has your time here been fruitful? Well, I can't vouch for anybody else, but I know several of your posts have been a blessing to me and inspired me to think and reflect on scripture.

Ask yourself if you have been blessed here. Has this message board helped you to remain focused on Christ? How would you spend your time if you weren't here? Would you be able to stay as focused on Him and His Word?

Please continue to pray about it and ask God to reveal to you over the next couple of weeks whether your time here is fruitful and a blessing to others and yourself, or if your money would be more fruitful spent somewhere else. And if you still feel God is aksing you to spend your money somewhere else, then by all means do what God is telling you to do and praise God as you give it, because you'll know He has some good plans for it.

Peace :hug:

IamBill
May 21st 2008, 04:31 PM
Well, let start off by thanking you all.

Moonglow, that makes so much sense :)
Son-kissed, that conv is a treasure in my heart :)
Ken, on the money again(so to speak) - ""The one thing that I will say Bill... Make sure it is conviction and not self-condemnation.""

I had a very ..'interesting' evening/night, "spiritual attack". a play on a "fear" in which I know I will always Have Jesus with me anyway, I would never be truly alone.
But, the Word of God wins again.

Then, having fallen asleep reading the Bible, I awake this morning to find Philippians staring me in the face --
2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

And I have learned once again that even in our humblest states we can find self-righteousness, and that hard as I may try, the Cross is Not something I could never bear.

The Lord provides for me in all ways (including the 20 for this)
:)



:pp

fewarechosen
May 21st 2008, 04:43 PM
none of us give as we should, we all fall short.
but i enjoyed reading your post and it helps me know others that care are out there.
you spent 20 dollars on the internet so you could bring peace and help to others and yourself. so that money is well donated.

remember the woman who annointed christ with oil and the others said she did a bad work but christ said it was good.

thank you for your donation :)

SoldierOfChrist
May 21st 2008, 05:01 PM
remember the woman who annointed christ with oil and the others said she did a bad work but christ said it was good.

thank you for your donation :)

Good quote!

Bill... Not all ministries are alike!

1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

We need to learn as well as help others and in learning we become better teachers... we are both student and teacher.

Yes... Thanks for your donation.

Michael

IamBill
May 21st 2008, 05:49 PM
:) Our Lord provides through us all ;)

Wow, satan is one clever deceiver

:pp GOD is AWESOME :pp

ProjectPeter
May 21st 2008, 06:09 PM
Well, let start off by thanking you all.

Moonglow, that makes so much sense :)
Son-kissed, that conv is a treasure in my heart :)
Ken, on the money again(so to speak) - ""The one thing that I will say Bill... Make sure it is conviction and not self-condemnation.""

I had a very ..'interesting' evening/night, "spiritual attack". a play on a "fear" in which I know I will always Have Jesus with me anyway, I would never be truly alone.
But, the Word of God wins again.

Then, having fallen asleep reading the Bible, I awake this morning to find Philippians staring me in the face --
2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

And I have learned once again that even in our humblest states we can find self-righteousness, and that hard as I may try, the Cross is Not something I could never bear.

The Lord provides for me in all ways (including the 20 for this)
:)



:ppJust send me a PM when you are ready. :)

moonglow
May 22nd 2008, 02:16 PM
Well, let start off by thanking you all.

Moonglow, that makes so much sense :)
Son-kissed, that conv is a treasure in my heart :)
Ken, on the money again(so to speak) - ""The one thing that I will say Bill... Make sure it is conviction and not self-condemnation.""

I had a very ..'interesting' evening/night, "spiritual attack". a play on a "fear" in which I know I will always Have Jesus with me anyway, I would never be truly alone.
But, the Word of God wins again.

Then, having fallen asleep reading the Bible, I awake this morning to find Philippians staring me in the face --
2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

And I have learned once again that even in our humblest states we can find self-righteousness, and that hard as I may try, the Cross is Not something I could never bear.

The Lord provides for me in all ways (including the 20 for this)
:)



:pp

Nope...we can never give all as Christ did...and if you notice, He gave only Himself. While He did heal and did preach and did give to the poor and did teach us to help others and love each other...in the end it wasn't money that He gave that He was remembered for, nor clothes, nor food (though He did feed thousands!) but it was simply Himself He gave that He is remembered by. We can give some of ourselves to others, through our time. The most Jesus gave, besides Himself, was His time. Spending time with the flock, with the unbelievers, with the sinners...just time. You and I have alot of that! :lol: So in that way we are rich and can give alot! :)

Glad you are sticking around...:hug:

God bless

The Parson
May 22nd 2008, 03:15 PM
Just thought I'd poke my nose in and do a drive by Bibling...

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 25:41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

amazzin
May 22nd 2008, 04:43 PM
Just thought I'd poke my nose in and do a drive by Bibling...

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 25:41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


:rofl:Love you bro and just teasing you. Great verse and so relevent

:lol: LOL,..I recognize that version....is it KJV????

moonglow
May 22nd 2008, 06:05 PM
Just thought I'd poke my nose in and do a drive by Bibling...



lol too funny...:lol::lol:

The Parson
May 22nd 2008, 06:47 PM
:rofl:Love you bro and just teasing you. Great verse and so relevent

:lol: LOL,..I recognize that version....is it KJV????Uh, yea verily brother.

moonglow
May 22nd 2008, 07:44 PM
Uh, yea verily brother.

verily,verily,verily...its always three times! ;)

:lol:

DeafPosttrib
May 22nd 2008, 07:49 PM
The Parson,

So, would we being end up as goat, if we do not do these according to Matt. 25:34-41?

By the way, you already know that I am Baptist. I notice almost all Baptists pastors never say anything on Matt. 25:34-41 to the congregation, because they seem not emphasis on them to the congrgeation. I would like to be curious, why do most baptist pastors seem not emphasis or teaching on this passage to the congregation?


In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

The Parson
May 22nd 2008, 08:53 PM
The Parson,

So, would we being end up as goat, if we do not do these according to Matt. 25:34-41?

By the way, you already know that I am Baptist. I notice almost all Baptists pastors never say anything on Matt. 25:34-41 to the congregation, because they seem not emphasis on them to the congrgeation. I would like to be curious, why do most baptist pastors seem not emphasis or teaching on this passage to the congregation?


In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!That's because they (some preachers in general) tend to be skeart of controversy. Whereas, if we simply look at the scriptures further there are many in the congregation who are there for the ride but they never finalized their salvation by wholey accepting the Lord Jesus as Savior.

Case in point... Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Goats among the sheep... You know as well as I do that there are probably as many lost church members as there are saved. Maybe more.

And how do I know they were never saved? Well, Jesus said: John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: So Jesus knows His own. Right? Well in Matthew 7, the Savior told a bunch of them He never knew them (v23).

Stands to reason that Jesus don't lie about not knowing this bunch. He's God and the scriptures say: Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: If He never knew them, then they were never saved in the first place. So simple a child could understand it.

DeafPosttrib
May 22nd 2008, 10:37 PM
Parson,

I will reply to you tomorrow. Because I will go to work tonight. Tomorrow is my night off. So, I will have plenty time to reply you with verses as what you showing me.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

BHS
May 23rd 2008, 12:39 AM
How easy is it for all of us to get so caught up in doctrinal differences and whatnot. The discussions are fun and hey... I love it. But then somewhere along the line... we forget what it is really all about.

Feed the poor: But there are programs. But the government will help them. Give them the number to meals on wheels. Everyone has their excuses. Tell me something... have you ever made one of those recommendations and then gone to your cupboard full of food, open the full refrigerator, and then prepare quite the meal for you and yours?

1 John 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.

How can the love of God be in you?

Cloth the naked, Visit the sick and those in prison, house the stranger: We have ministries that take care of that. The hospital won't let me do that any more. You can't trust people any more and they could be an ax murderer. They have hotels and dollar menus at McDonald's now days.

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.´
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?´
45 "Then He will answer them, saying, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.´
46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Sheep or a goat?

Tend to the widow and orphan: More programs and programs and programs.

James 1:27 This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

How defiled is your religion?


Yeah... we major on a lot now and again and like I said... we can discuss this stuff. But how hard has our hearts become? Look around you right now... if you can't see this then you are either blind or hard hearted... or worse... both.

Wow! What Torah lessons!

amazzin
May 23rd 2008, 12:42 AM
Wow! What Torah lessons!

But isn't true that the "mission" of those called by God are to do this "no questions" ?

Scubadude
May 23rd 2008, 12:48 AM
Just wanted to say first that I was just joshing about finding a new profession. It's a good thing that you are on this board. I like what you have to say. Sometimes, being a smart a** just flows from me.

"It is getter to give, then to receive". We all have something to give, regardless weather we think it is 'a lot' or not. My wife and I went through a bankruptcy not too long ago. We lost it all, the business, our houses, everything. Living with my mother again after 26 years was the last place I figured we would be. All we had was a full sized bed to sleep on. For a long period of time, the only thing I had to give my wife was to sleep on the floor so she could get some rest.

I believe that in giving, we receive. When we give at the time we don't think we have much to give, it's a great opportunity for the Lord to show us that our needs are truly his concern. And, I think He gets a kick out of showing us up when it comes to giving.

In Christ,
Kevin

BHS
May 23rd 2008, 12:50 AM
But isn't true that the "mission" of those called by God are to do this "no questions" ?

If I understand your question -- Of course!

amazzin
May 23rd 2008, 01:14 AM
If I understand your question -- Of course!

So, since this has been taught since Hebrew times including Torah. Why are we at a lose in its value in the modern church and in its people?

ProjectPeter
May 23rd 2008, 01:59 AM
Just as the Torah following Jews throughout the Old Testament. :rolleyes: BHS please... don;t come in this thread making it a "Torah" argument. That was loaded and honestly... I'm not having it in here. Join in and discuss... but leave that stuff at the door. I'm not going to have you derailing this thread.

Ashley274
May 23rd 2008, 05:21 AM
Wow what a great thread. I, like Karen I was drawn to it due to the blah blah blah lol...but awesome thread. I am one of those kind of poorish people but I do more than I thought ..though I can AND will do more and we all can ..some way or another..

I have been very blessed in my life compared to some folks

Also to the person who threw that stimulus check away..if you meant literally you can call the IRS report it as accidently distroyed they will re issue it and maybe you can pay your Net bill ahead and sent some to a soup kitchen or some place :hug:

I once heard love is a verb it is an ACTION thus we can talk all we want and pray but we need to ACT

BHS
May 23rd 2008, 11:33 PM
Feed the poor:

Cloth the naked, Visit the sick and those in prison, house the stranger:

Tend to the widow and orphan:



Perhaps I should not have used the word "Torah". I did not intend to make a "TORAH ARGUMENT". I hope this can be received without offense. My intention was to make the point that for many, many years prior to Jesus' words written in Matthew, etc. the Lord had schooled the Israelites in these same social concerns. Many have the idea the Israelites were punished particularly for their idolatry, but God was extremely angry with how they had perverted his justice system, which included these three social concerns. This,as James says, is pure and undefiled religion and has always been in the heart of God. To see the importance God places upon these social injustices one only has to read the first few chapters of Isaiah.

It is a wonder that we as Christians do not emphasize them anymore than we do, when the earlier part of the Bible makes it so clear how important they are to God's standard of righteousness.

Blessings,
BHS

ProjectPeter
May 23rd 2008, 11:52 PM
Perhaps I should not have used the word "Torah". I did not intend to make a "TORAH ARGUMENT". I hope this can be received without offense. My intention was to make the point that for many, many years prior to Jesus' words written in Matthew, etc. the Lord had schooled the Israelites in these same social concerns. Many have the idea the Israelites were punished particularly for their idolatry, but God was extremely angry with how they had perverted his justice system, which included these three social concerns. This,as James says, is pure and undefiled religion and has always been in the heart of God. To see the importance God places upon these social injustices one only has to read the first few chapters of Isaiah.

It is a wonder that we as Christians do not emphasize them anymore than we do, when the earlier part of the Bible makes it so clear how important they are to God's standard of righteousness.

Blessings,
BHS
Thank you BHS... that was well recieved and yes... one that I agree with totally. Do you want to show the passages?

mikebr
May 24th 2008, 01:46 AM
How easy is it for all of us to get so caught up in doctrinal differences and whatnot. The discussions are fun and hey... I love it. But then somewhere along the line... we forget what it is really all about.

Feed the poor: But there are programs. But the government will help them. Give them the number to meals on wheels. Everyone has their excuses. Tell me something... have you ever made one of those recommendations and then gone to your cupboard full of food, open the full refrigerator, and then prepare quite the meal for you and yours?

1 John 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.

How can the love of God be in you?

Cloth the naked, Visit the sick and those in prison, house the stranger: We have ministries that take care of that. The hospital won't let me do that any more. You can't trust people any more and they could be an ax murderer. They have hotels and dollar menus at McDonald's now days.

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, `Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.´
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?´
45 "Then He will answer them, saying, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.´
46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Sheep or a goat?

Tend to the widow and orphan: More programs and programs and programs.

James 1:27 This is pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father, to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

How defiled is your religion?


Yeah... we major on a lot now and again and like I said... we can discuss this stuff. But how hard has our hearts become? Look around you right now... if you can't see this then you are either blind or hard hearted... or worse... both.

Ah to Major on the Majors. Excellent Title and Post. :pp:hug::pray::cry:

BHS
May 24th 2008, 04:08 PM
Here is the one most notable passage from the early part of the Bible with instructions for how to help the poor.

Leviticus 19:9-10
'Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. 10 'Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God."

Following are other scriptures with the same intent – Exodus 22:25-28; Leviticus 19:15; Leviticus 25:25-28; 35-36; 39-43; Deuteronomy 24:12-15.

In Deuteronomy 15:7-8
"If there is a poor man with you, one of your brothers, in any of your towns in your land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand from your poor brother; 8 but you shall freely open your hand to him, and shall generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks."

I Samuel 2:8a gives God’s heart toward the poor --
"He raises the poor from the dust, He lifts the needy from the ash heap To make them sit with nobles, And inherit a seat of honor;"

The Israelites having been instilled with the thought of helping those who are afflicted, the poor, etc. made helping the poor a part of the Purim celebration –

Esther 9:22
"because on those days the Jews rid themselves of their enemies, and it was a month which was turned for them from sorrow into gladness and from mourning into a holiday; that they should make them days of feasting and rejoicing and sending portions of food to one another and gifts to the poor."

Job is one of the earliest known characters in the early part of the Bible. This was long before God established a Chosen People and the nation of Israel and shows God’s righteous justice among the nations and reveals the character of God –

Job 22:5-9
"Is not your wickedness great, And your iniquities without end? 6 "For you have taken pledges of your brothers without cause, And stripped men naked. 7 "To the weary you have given no water to drink, And from the hungry you have withheld bread. 8 "But the earth belongs to the mighty man, And the honorable man dwells in it. 9 "You have sent widows away empty, And the strength of the orphans has been crushed."

Job 5:15-16
"But He saves from the sword of their mouth, And the poor from the hand of the mighty. 16 "So the helpless has hope, And unrighteousness must shut its mouth."

Psalm 68:5
"A father of the fatherless and a judge for the widows, Is God in His holy habitation"

Psalm 68:10 10 Thy creatures settled in it; Thou didst provide in Thy goodness for the poor, O God.

Psalm 140:12 - 141:1
"know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, And justice for the poor. 13 Surely the righteous will give thanks to Thy name; The upright will dwell in Thy presence.

Other related verses in the Psalms are Psalm 72:13-14; Psalm 112:9 and Psalm 113:7-8.

In Isaiah God pours out His wrath upon those who have perverted His justice system and have mistreated those who are helpless.

Isaiah 3:13-15
"The LORD arises to contend, And stands to judge the people. 14 The LORD enters into judgment with the elders and princes of His people, "It is you who have devoured the vineyard; The plunder of the poor is in your houses. 15 "What do you mean by crushing My people, And grinding the face of the poor?" Declares the Lord God of hosts."


Isaiah 10:1-3
"Woe to those who enact evil statutes, And to those who constantly record unjust decisions, 2 So as to deprive the needy of justice, And rob the poor of My people of their rights, In order that widows may be their spoil, And that they may plunder the orphans. 3 Now what will you do in the day of punishment, And in the devastation which will come from afar? To whom will you flee for help? And where will you leave your wealth?

And in Isaiah 58 is the glorious passage of doing the proper things and the results of having done so –

Isaiah 58:6-12
"Is this not the fast which I choose, To loosen the bonds of wickedness, To undo the bands of the yoke, And to let the oppressed go free, And break every yoke? 7 "Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, And bring the homeless poor into the house; When you see the naked, to cover him; And not to hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 "Then your light will break out like the dawn, And your recovery will speedily spring forth; And your righteousness will go before you; The glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. 9 "Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; You will cry, and He will say, 'Here I am.' If you remove the yoke from your midst, The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, 10 And if you give yourself to the hungry, And satisfy the desire of the afflicted, Then your light will rise in darkness, And your gloom will become like midday. 11 "And the LORD will continually guide you, And satisfy your desire in scorched places, And give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. 12 "And those from among you will rebuild the ancient ruins; You will raise up the age-old foundations; And you will be called the repairer of the breach, The restorer of the streets in which to dwell."

Blessings,
BHS