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MidnightsPaleGlow
May 21st 2008, 02:44 AM
I was just curious about what everyone's views here are on fire and brimstone sermons. I'm kinda neutral on the issue, having heard a few before I can say that the preacher delivering them sure throws his energy into it. Although, unfortunately, fire and brimstone people in a way are relying too much on fear mongering. What's everyone else's views on this topic? I know I had an idea for a fire and brimstone sermon condemning idolatry in the form of love of money/prosperity teaching, I just gotta get approval to deliver it before the congregation.

Athanasius
May 21st 2008, 02:49 AM
Sermons on Hell are necessary...

MidnightsPaleGlow
May 21st 2008, 02:50 AM
Sermons on Hell are necessary...

That is true, I just think some people are too over the top with it. Everything in moderation...

longtooth
May 21st 2008, 05:37 AM
There is nothing moderate about hell. Warning is prerequisite to calling away in any cituation.
If the true extent of the danger is not declared, the urgent call away from that danger will not be understood.
If there is no fear of the Hell I deserve for my sin, there will never be a hunger for the heaven of grace.

Phil Fourie
May 21st 2008, 06:13 AM
Well, then you would probably classify me as over the top ;)

How can you keep quiet when you see the train coming and your brother is fast asleep on the tracks :hmm:

Brother Mark
May 21st 2008, 03:02 PM
It all depends on the spirit behind the message. Is it one of legalism and performance or is it one of love and repentance?

Jonah preached fire and brimstone and watched an entire city convert. John the Baptist preached a similar message and watched many resist.

Reynolds357
May 21st 2008, 03:19 PM
The Gospel must be preached. The Saving grace of Christ must be the center of the message. It is fine to put fire and breamstone in the mix, but the heart of the sermon must be faith in our Savior.

moonglow
May 21st 2008, 04:01 PM
I made a video addressing this very thing: http://youtube.com/watch?v=RluWYe3EkWA
What about Heaven?


God bless

ARCHER42
May 21st 2008, 08:45 PM
It all depends on the spirit behind the message. Is it one of legalism and performance or is it one of love and repentance?

Jonah preached fire and brimstone and watched an entire city convert. John the Baptist preached a similar message and watched many resist.
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I agree with what he said...... Very nicely put.

JordanW
May 21st 2008, 09:25 PM
I'm neutral, it has its advantages and disadvantages.

MidnightsPaleGlow
May 21st 2008, 09:27 PM
It all depends on the spirit behind the message. Is it one of legalism and performance or is it one of love and repentance?

Jonah preached fire and brimstone and watched an entire city convert. John the Baptist preached a similar message and watched many resist.

That's exactly why I'm neutral on the issue of fire and brimstone preaching.

daughter
May 22nd 2008, 07:15 AM
Why? Both Jonah and John the Baptist were doing what God told them too, whether they seemed to succeed in this life or not.

Brother Mark
May 22nd 2008, 08:01 AM
Why? Both Jonah and John the Baptist were doing what God told them too, whether they seemed to succeed in this life or not.

I should have clarified it the other day. You are right. That was an example of how it worked sometimes and how it didn't at others. The example for when it's not God was when James and John asked if they should call down fire from heaven on the Samaritans for how they treated Jesus and he said "You don't know what spirit you speak of."

There are times for fire and brimstone. Then, there are times to feed the 5000 in compassion. And there are times to not stone the one caught in adultery. There are times to preach "woe unto you" and there are times to preach "blessed are the poor".

It all depends on the Holy Spirit. I have seen fire and brimstone be of God and I've seen it when it wasn't of the Lord. As for effectiveness, Jonah preached it and I don't think he did it of the Lord, but it worked completely. John did it and it was of the Lord and it didn't. Jonah was afraid God would be merciful but he didn't tell Ninevah about that mercy. Instead, he only preached judgment. He later told God "I knew you were merciful". Perhaps he preached only the message God had for them, but sometimes I wonder. Even so, it was enough for them to repent.

Anyway, I hope this explains better the point I was trying to make.

calidog
May 22nd 2008, 08:01 AM
well, "fire and brimstone" preaching came from God in the OT and Jesus in the NT.
The gospel is the good news and all else is bad news.

daughter
May 22nd 2008, 08:04 AM
Hi Brother Mark... I was addressing my question to Jordan, but thank you for that answer! It gives me yet more to think about.

When people say that God is different in the OT to the way He is in the NT, I often think of Jonah... who knew God was merciful. Interesting that he didn't preach mercy to the Ninevites... but they learned of God's mercy anyway!

Brother Mark
May 22nd 2008, 08:07 AM
Many people make the mistake thinking that God in the OT was different than he was in the NT. The covenant is different, but God is the same. Good catch!

moonglow
May 22nd 2008, 01:31 PM
But didn't the Ninevites end up turning back to their old ways? While they repented, it didn't last...this is the problem I have in only presenting part of the message and not giving a balanced view. I see people all the time come to God out of fear only...they don't have a real relationship with Him because they are too afraid...they don't ever grow as a Christians and usually in the end reject Him because they never learn about the grace of God or the mercy. They only see Him as destructive and vengeful. :(

And wasn't John preaching to the Jews, who already believed in God? They listened to him believe the Pharasis were so far off track..

God bless

daughter
May 22nd 2008, 01:41 PM
The generation that heard the message from Jonah were saved. It was their children who rejected the message that were finally judged and punished. God saved an entire generation through that message, even though the nation eventually fell.

Brother Mark
May 22nd 2008, 01:41 PM
The ninevites did turn back. But wasn't it the next generation? And even if they did, that doesn't really nullify the work that was done through the preaching. IOW, it was still an act of grace that they repented and it was still a move of God. Shoot, the same thing happened to Israel when they came out of Egypt. They were delivered and then rebelled.

ARCHER42
May 22nd 2008, 01:47 PM
Fire and brimstone is necessary but it will be done in balance. There are those that believe God is a loving God but they don't believe in Hell or eternal separation from Him. This is just not Biblical. Preaching on Hell is necessary. Jesus Himself preached on it. He preached 'alot' on it. Then there are those that ' preach' Hell and damnation but they have no love or mercy... That doesnt work.. It usually ends up in a'legalsitic type of Christian living and is bondage'..... You need to do both and in balance.

If you look back on the 9th Chapter of Luke.. Jesus had set His face to go Jersualem to the Cross... He sent the 'son's of thunder' James and John into a town to prepare and preach.. the town didnt recieve Him.. they turned to Jesus and asked Him if He could 'call fire down from Heaven to destory them' because they did not recieve Him. They were strongly rebuked by Jesus.. He said He was sent not to destroy men's lives but to save them. He told them that 'they did not 'know' what manner of spirit ye are of'. So it all depends the 'type' of spirit the preaching of hell and damnation is done in... The Scripture is very clear on this..

Valley of Joy
May 22nd 2008, 02:17 PM
Fire and brimstone is necessary but it will be done in balance. There are those that believe God is a loving God but they don't believe in Hell or eternal separation from Him. This is just not Biblical. Preaching on Hell is necessary. Jesus Himself preached on it. He preached 'alot' on it. Then there are those that ' preach' Hell and damnation but they have no love or mercy... That doesnt work.. It usually ends up in a'legalsitic type of Christian living and is bondage'..... You need to do both and in balance.

If you look back on the 9th Chapter of Luke.. Jesus had set His face to go Jersualem to the Cross... He sent the 'son's of thunder' James and John into a town to prepare and preach.. the town didnt recieve Him.. they turned to Jesus and asked Him if He could 'call fire down from Heaven to destory them' because they did not recieve Him. They were strongly rebuked by Jesus.. He said He was sent not to destroy men's lives but to save them. He told them that 'they did not 'know' what manner of spirit ye are of'. So it all depends the 'type' of spirit the preaching of hell and damnation is done in... The Scripture is very clear on this..
I agree fully People need to know Hell is a real place but also need to know of God's love and Mercy that we don't have to endure Hell

ARCHER42
May 22nd 2008, 04:14 PM
need to know of God's love and Mercy that we don't have to endure Hell
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True Believers in Jesus the Christ won't have to
"endure" Hell, Hades.. and they won't be enduring the Lake of Fire or Ghenna Hell Fire... they 'won't' be there..

I'm kind of curious as to your word 'endure'... and 'we'.... It sounds like your stating that even though we're believers we going to have to 'endure' some type of 'hell' 'punishmenst' or Eternal Separation. I strongly disagree with this if this is what your stating. I'd like to hear your response to this.

daughter
May 22nd 2008, 04:23 PM
I'm almost a hundred percent sure that was not what was meant... the "we" was a generic "we", referring to humans in general, not the poster in particular.

Valley of Joy
May 22nd 2008, 04:40 PM
I mean humans in general not children of God but those that turn their backs on him I know that True Believers will not have to face that punishment

ARCHER42
May 22nd 2008, 06:05 PM
VoJ,

Thanks for your repsonse... I apologize if I caused any hard feelings.. It was just the way I read it... I understand your message... I apologize again.. God Bless you

Reynolds357
May 22nd 2008, 06:51 PM
well, "fire and brimstone" preaching came from God in the OT and Jesus in the NT.
The gospel is the good news and all else is bad news.

The Gospel is the Good News. What is the Good news? The Good news is that Jesus died for our sins, and if we accept Him we live with Him in Heaven for eternity instead of spending eternity in the eternal torment of the Lake of fire. You can preach the Good news right along with fire and breamstone. The two go hand in hand.

MidnightsPaleGlow
May 22nd 2008, 07:34 PM
A big motive for me having asked this question is because of guys like Fred Phelps of G-d Hates F-gs, he constantly preaches fire and brimstone against homosexuality/sexual immorality and overdoes it (it's almost exclusively what he does) to the point where it's hateful and dangerous. Yes, I think people need to be warned that if they die in their sins there are consequences (eternal damnation), but I think they should be warned more in love, not so much as in "turn or burn" constantly.

MidnightsPaleGlow
May 22nd 2008, 07:36 PM
Of course, Fred Phelps is nothing more than a hatemonger, as evidenced by the name of his "church's" infamous website, G-dhatesf-gs.com (I omitted the "o" and the "a" intentionally, but I think everyone knows that site by now).

ARCHER42
May 22nd 2008, 07:54 PM
A big motive for me having asked this question is because of guys like Fred Phelps of G-d Hates F-gs, he constantly preaches fire and brimstone against homosexuality/sexual immorality and overdoes it (it's almost exclusively what he does) to the point where it's hateful and dangerous. Yes, I think people need to be warned that if they die in their sins there are consequences (eternal damnation), but I think they should be warned more in love, not so much as in "turn or burn" constantly.
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I agree... He also said that 'ye shall know them by their fruit'... this type of preaching without Mercy and Love is not the 'fruit' you expect to see.

Ye shall have Judgement without Mercy.. but Mercy rejoiceth against judgement.

It is sin yes , and the consequenses of it need to be preached.. but in Spirit and in Truth.

This reminds me of a very popular and highly Charismatic healer/evangelist that prophesied that God was going to destroy the homosexual community with fire in America here a few years ago.... Fire would literally come down from heaven and destory them.....

Reminds me when the sons of thunder asked Jesus if He would call down fire from Heaven to destory that town that did not recieve Him..
He Rebuked them sharply and said..

The Son Man has not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them...

Take heed of the 'fruit'.... ye shall know them by it...

Phil Fourie
May 23rd 2008, 08:09 AM
Lets not go down the road of discrediting people who cannot defend themselves here, we are not here to talk about other people, we are here to learn from each other ;)

God bless
Phil

ARCHER42
May 23rd 2008, 12:58 PM
Lets not go down the road of discrediting people who cannot defend themselves here, we are not here to talk about other people, we are here to learn from each other ;)

God bless
Phil
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Their own words and actions and their fruit gives them away... They have 'discredited' themselves... Period.

threebigrocks
May 23rd 2008, 05:39 PM
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Their own words and actions and their fruit gives them away... They have 'discredited' themselves... Period.

Discuss and by all means refute their doctrine - leave their name out of the discussion. they are not here to defend themselves, nor to hear any correction in hopes of change. Continue on but focus on the doctrine. ;)

moonglow
May 23rd 2008, 06:01 PM
I guess the better question would be...who doesn't know about hell? Is it really so important to preach fire and brimstone? Seems like to me that hell gets alot more attention then Heaven does and Jesus did speak alot about Heaven...if not more then hell. If the gospel message is what you are wanting to do...keep it in balance. Personally I am very much against any fire and brimstone preaching because I see it abused...use to manipulate people, used to instill guilt (when there is no need for guilt...meaning I see people feel guilty about things they didn't even do!) use to put down people to instill fear and make God into something not much better then satan. Because Christians have over done hell and even mock unbelievers with threats of hell..saying things like "I can't wait to see you burn in hell!", I just think it needs to be avoid ...they already KNOW about hell! People know more about hell then they do Jesus! And that is terrible I think.

I see far, far too many Christians use hell to threaten others with...to imitate, to frighten to put down as if those Christians are somehow better then the nonbeliever. We did nothing to earn our salvation...we are not 'better' then others.

People know so little about Heaven...but seem to know so much about hell and that includes Christians and I think that is a shame.

God bless

Brother Mark
May 24th 2008, 12:04 AM
Here's the thing though Moon, until one is sick or sees their need, there is no need for a physician. Many people don't believe in hell. It was fear of eternal hell that led me to Jesus. One must hear God on the issue. I've seen folks saved because they already knew in their hearts they needed a savior and were searching for him. When they heard of Christ and his love and sacrifice, they repented. Others, thought they were well and saw no need. They believed in hell but thought they were good enough. It was only through preaching law that they saw a need and repented.

Without a knowledge that God will judge, there is rarely repentance in a man. Without a knowledge that God will be merciful, there is rarely repentance in a man. Both need to be preached and Jesus preached of hell a bunch. He did preach of heaven too.

moonglow
May 24th 2008, 12:14 AM
Here's the thing though Moon, until one is sick or sees their need, there is no need for a physician. Many people don't believe in hell. It was fear of eternal hell that led me to Jesus. One must hear God on the issue. I've seen folks saved because they already knew in their hearts they needed a savior and were searching for him. When they heard of Christ and his love and sacrifice, they repented. Others, thought they were well and saw no need. They believed in hell but thought they were good enough. It was only through preaching law that they saw a need and repented.

Without a knowledge that God will judge, there is rarely repentance in a man. Without a knowledge that God will be merciful, there is rarely repentance in a man. Both need to be preached and Jesus preached of hell a bunch. He did preach of heaven too.

I understand what you are saying and I have no problems with preaching hell IF the person keeps it in balance...but far too many don't. Plus to me there is a difference between teaching about hell and doing the fire and brimstone type of preaching...as far as I am concerned those that do this go too far and add their own ideas which usually aren't bibical at all. You know I run into Christians on the net that think demons will be torturing people in hell with pitchforks? Now where is that in the bible? no where...and they think the devil really is all red with a long pointed tail and horns on his head waiting to tortured people too! ...and I have seen even stranger things then that!

God bless

Brother Mark
May 24th 2008, 01:08 AM
I understand what you are saying and I have no problems with preaching hell IF the person keeps it in balance...but far too many don't. Plus to me there is a difference between teaching about hell and doing the fire and brimstone type of preaching...as far as I am concerned those that do this go too far and add their own ideas which usually aren't bibical at all. You know I run into Christians on the net that think demons will be torturing people in hell with pitchforks? Now where is that in the bible? no where...and they think the devil really is all red with a long pointed tail and horns on his head waiting to tortured people too! ...and I have seen even stranger things then that!

God bless

Some of that is calling. Elijah was a hard preacher. It was for the time he was in. Some plant, some water, but God gives the increase. The thing is, it's not so much what they preach, it's the spirit behind what they preach. That's the key. Jonah wasn't balanced in his message. But the Spirit behind his message was God. The Pharisees preached a message of repentance from lust, etc. But the spirit behind them was "you brood of vipers".

Phil Fourie
May 24th 2008, 10:54 AM
Some of that is calling. Elijah was a hard preacher. It was for the time he was in. Some plant, some water, but God gives the increase. The thing is, it's not so much what they preach, it's the spirit behind what they preach. That's the key. Jonah wasn't balanced in his message. But the Spirit behind his message was God. The Pharisees preached a message of repentance from lust, etc. But the spirit behind them was "you brood of vipers".

I can't give out reps now, so I will just say it here: This is a brilliant post my friend ;)

cheech
May 24th 2008, 12:39 PM
Sermons on Hell are necessary...

That's exactly what our Pastor said after speaking 3 weeks on it. He said churches now a days don't like to talk about it...makes people uncomfortable. Making people uncomfortable is good! Makes them think! :lol: His sermons on it were very good and caused many in our congregation to think and come to the altar for altar call.

I think fire and brimstone is good but there needs to be a balance. If that's all your sermons consist of then where is the teaching about the goodness and love of God? As long as sermons are balanced then there is no problem. Oh...and don't scream it at me...I don't like screaming. Raising your voice is fine but screaming and jumping just shut my mind down...we won't go there :D.

moonglow
May 24th 2008, 03:33 PM
Some of that is calling. Elijah was a hard preacher. It was for the time he was in. Some plant, some water, but God gives the increase. The thing is, it's not so much what they preach, it's the spirit behind what they preach. That's the key. Jonah wasn't balanced in his message. But the Spirit behind his message was God. The Pharisees preached a message of repentance from lust, etc. But the spirit behind them was "you brood of vipers".

Very true...sadly though all I see if the 'brood of vipers' preaching on this on the net.


cheech
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xel'Naga
Sermons on Hell are necessary...
That's exactly what our Pastor said after speaking 3 weeks on it. He said churches now a days don't like to talk about it...makes people uncomfortable. Making people uncomfortable is good! Makes them think! His sermons on it were very good and caused many in our congregation to think and come to the altar for altar call.

I think fire and brimstone is good but there needs to be a balance. If that's all your sermons consist of then where is the teaching about the goodness and love of God? As long as sermons are balanced then there is no problem. Oh...and don't scream it at me...I don't like screaming. Raising your voice is fine but screaming and jumping just shut my mind down...we won't go there

Oh yea I cannot stand yelling preachers...I feel like they think we all have a hearing problem or something...it REALLY hurts my ears! I can't focus on what they are saying because I am cringing. I find yelling scary and imitating regardless of their words. They could be saying the most loving wonderful things and its ruined by the yelling...sounds like they are angry. :(

I image in the past preachers had to yell to be heard in large crowds...like with John the baptist...here he was by a river and who knows how big the crowds were so I image he had to yell to be heard. But now a days we have mic's! No need to yell! I know they think they are being passionate, but I have heard extremely passionate sermons that involved no yelling!

One time someone online tried to get me to watch an online sermon...I lasted maybe two minutes. Not only was the pastor yelling but the men by him kept yelling Amen and saying other things were I couldn't hear the pastor. I am not used to hearing preaching like that. An Amen when the pastor pauses is fine...but if its reaped over and over while he is talking its a distraction and you miss half of what he is saying...:( I avoid churches like that for sure!

God bless

Brother Mark
May 24th 2008, 04:58 PM
Loud praise and worship music is troublesome to me because it hurts. But that's my preference. Some preaches yell and do it well. That's their preference. If they are speaking from their anger, well that wouldn't be right. If they are speaking from righteous anger, that would be fine.

Yelling, teaching, hollering, is all style. One can be loud and gentle. One can be quiet and passionate. Style is style. Some prefer one over the other.

cheech
May 24th 2008, 09:03 PM
Loud praise and worship music is troublesome to me because it hurts. But that's my preference. Some preaches yell and do it well. That's their preference. If they are speaking from their anger, well that wouldn't be right. If they are speaking from righteous anger, that would be fine.

Yelling, teaching, hollering, is all style. One can be loud and gentle. One can be quiet and passionate. Style is style. Some prefer one over the other.

Well I have tell ya...our little church took some getting use to because they do everything loud! :lol: It's a bilingual (primarily Hispanic) church and their music is LOUD! I told my husband I feel like I'm in those old speaker commercials where the guy is sitting in a chair in front of a speaker, the music comes on and my head and hair blows back from loudness! :lol: Even our Co-Pastor can be loud but I'll tell you what...they are good! The Pastor isn't loud though...he's very good at speaking and so is the Co-Pastor, but she gets more riled than him :lol:. Did I mention this church is small so it's magnified more? Oh well...good music, good service, we're happy (although sometimes I do feel like I've been to a concert with my ears ringing thanks to slug wanting us to sit up front all the time. I tell him I don't want to cuz then the Pastor can see me dozing! :D)

Brother Mark
May 24th 2008, 11:00 PM
Wow! I remember visiting churches in Latin America and they are full of emotion. Loud worship, loud preaching, loud colors, etc. But I enjoyed it immensely. Of course, not all of them had real loud speakers so that helped. :D If I could speak Spanish, I would find a Hispanic church around here to attend.

Frances
May 26th 2008, 06:24 PM
It all depends on the spirit behind the message. Is it one of legalism and performance or is it one of love and repentance?.

I agree.

If the preacher shouts, it usually comes across as legalism; if they are polite and gentle, I believe folk are much more likely to take notice or what is said - even if it is the same message.

daughter
Jun 3rd 2008, 12:18 PM
I live in the UK, was raised Roman Catholic, and NEVER heard a sermon in my life about hell.

Compare the US, with your fire and brimstone preaching, then come over here and see our society... see what happens when people no longer fear the one who can cast body and soul into hell.

9Marksfan
Jun 3rd 2008, 01:36 PM
I live in the UK, was raised Roman Catholic, and NEVER heard a sermon in my life about hell.

Compare the US, with your fire and brimstone preaching, then come over here and see our society... see what happens when people no longer fear the one who can cast body and soul into hell.

Well said, Mary - I read an article in a newspaper recently that was about people's greatest fear about dying - the biggest percentage said they feared dying alone - I added up the percentages of the other views and it came to 100% - NO ONE was concerned about what would happen after death - a nation is truly under God's judgement when "there is no fear of God before their eyes"........

daughter
Jun 3rd 2008, 04:17 PM
Over my husband's last illness he was on many terminal wards, and I got to see about seven people die over a space of about eighteen to twenty months.

It did dawn on me that towards the end people do start to fear what comes after death. I have seen men die screaming, I'm sorry to say.

The secular world would say that one of the men, a Muslim, had been brainwashed into feeling guilty by his religion, and I shouldn't agree with his dying fear that he was going to hell. I'd like to think there was mercy for him, and that he repented... but I really don't think so.

That really had an impact on my husband... that and the death of two Christians over the same time frame. They died utterly differently.

Brother Mark
Jun 3rd 2008, 04:21 PM
Romans 1 is a scary scripture. I have quoted it a bit today. God eventually turns folks over to a reprobate mind. But look at this passage.

Rom 1:18-23

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
NASB

They suppress the truth that God has made evident in them. Perhaps, upon their death bed, that which they have suppressed is coming out again. The fear and agony must be terrible! But alas, for many it may be too late. For some, they may have suppressed the truth for so long, and their deception is so great, they are truly reprobate. They may not even have the slightest fear till they wake up in hell.

The whole passage gives me some holy fear.

daughter
Jun 3rd 2008, 07:15 PM
It scares me too. I know an old man that I've witnessed to on many occasions. He is always starting religious debates with people... very aggressively and rudely, to tear them down and build himself up. I know now that he's heard the gospel... at least from me. My neighbour over the road where I used to live has also witnessed to him. He mocks and abuses his wife (who is Roman Catholic) and his son, also RC. He harangues, pesters and mocks.

But for all that he knows all the arguments, he insists there is no such thing as sin, and that if there is a God He'll let him into heaven, because he's "such a good man."

I can't say for sure that this old man will go to hell... but unless God intervenes dramatically, then he will do. I hope I'm not there at his death bed...

trodder
Jun 5th 2008, 01:45 AM
I'm in favor of it. We should know what lies ahead for those who turn away from God.
That said, it shouldn't be a used to scare souls into heaven.

calidog
Jun 5th 2008, 01:47 AM
Has anyone actually come to Christ not fearing eternal damnation?

trodder
Jun 5th 2008, 01:58 PM
I'm sure they have but, what is needed is a healthy blend of the love of God and the freedom of his salvation.
I've seen those who were "scared out of hell" and it was shock value. some lasted and some didn't, why? They thought it was Chritianity as it was preached was too restricted.

I don't want watered down preaching give it to me straight from the hip but don't harp on the don'ts. There are lots of dos in walking with God and they need to pointed out as well as the punishment.

Cloudwalker
Jun 6th 2008, 03:46 PM
There is a place for fire and brimstone preaching but it, like a lot of things, can be overdone. If all you hear is fire and brimstone then you never learn about the Love of God. If all you hear is Love then you never learn about Gods Holiness and Gods Justice and Righteousness. You need to get the total picture of God (or as total as our finite minds can grasp). And we need to remember that by and large people aren't scared into the Kingdom of God they are loved in, one at a time, by individuals like each of us.

Buzzword
Jun 8th 2008, 12:18 AM
Is there any fire or brimstone in the Two Greatest Commandments?

Let's see:
"Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength."
and
"Love your neighbor as yourself."

There's no "Love God OR ELSE YOU'LL BURN!"
or
"Love your neighbor IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GO TO HELL!"

These sum up the law and the prophets.

So no, I don't think fire and brimstone preaching is EVER necessary, or even appropriate.

Doesn't mean you can't talk about heaven and hell, but talking about them doesn't equal "fire and brimstone preaching," at least as far as I know the definition of the term.

daughter
Jun 8th 2008, 12:41 AM
It's late at night, so I don't want to keep on tapping away, in case I wake up my child... instead I post this link for you, on the absolutely indissoluble link between love and hate. It will only take up three minutes and six seconds of your life, and I hope will give you something to think about.

Please watch it Buzz... You cannot love if you do not hate.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=72e18e33ecdeaf84dd86

Buzzword
Jun 13th 2008, 12:44 PM
It's late at night, so I don't want to keep on tapping away, in case I wake up my child... instead I post this link for you, on the absolutely indissoluble link between love and hate. It will only take up three minutes and six seconds of your life, and I hope will give you something to think about.

Please watch it Buzz... You cannot love if you do not hate.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=72e18e33ecdeaf84dd86

1. Does God call us to hate? No.
He calls us to love, and nothing else (all others are manifestations of love, for Him and for others.)
If God has not called us to hate, then it must be possible to love without hating.

2. Even if it WASN'T possible for US to love without hating, God is not us.
Why do we say "God is love" if He is forced to hate by His own nature?

Not to say He is not just.
But a righteous judge does not hate those who choose a death sentence.

Brother Mark
Jun 13th 2008, 12:52 PM
Is there any fire or brimstone in the Two Greatest Commandments?

Let's see:
"Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength."
and
"Love your neighbor as yourself."

There's no "Love God OR ELSE YOU'LL BURN!"
or
"Love your neighbor IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GO TO HELL!"

These sum up the law and the prophets.

So no, I don't think fire and brimstone preaching is EVER necessary, or even appropriate.

Doesn't mean you can't talk about heaven and hell, but talking about them doesn't equal "fire and brimstone preaching," at least as far as I know the definition of the term.

Most certainly there is fire and brimstone in those commandments. For the penalty of breaking those commandments is eternal death. Jesus preached fire and brimstone occasionally and so did Jonah.

9Marksfan
Jun 13th 2008, 01:21 PM
1. Does God call us to hate? No.
He calls us to love, and nothing else (all others are manifestations of love, for Him and for others.)
If God has not called us to hate, then it must be possible to love without hating.

But we ARE called to hate!

You who love the LORD, hate evil! Ps 97:10 NKJV

The fear of the LORD is to hate evil... Prov 8:13a NKJV

A righteous man hates lying... Prov 8:13 NKJV

Hate evil, love good... Am 5:15a NKJV

...Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Rom 12:9 NKJV


2. Even if it WASN'T possible for US to love without hating, God is not us.
Why do we say "God is love" if He is forced to hate by His own nature?

He is not "forced" to hate - there are many facets to His nature - and hating what is evil is one of them - a righteous hate. We are to copy Him in this.


Not to say He is not just.
But a righteous judge does not hate those who choose a death sentence.

On the contrary:-

...You hate all workers of iniquity. Ps 5:5b NKJV

How does your comment above sit with this passage?

...when the Lord Jesus is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. They shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power 2 Thess 1:7b-8 NKJV

It is not just that they choose a death sentence - He will carry it out with VENGEANCE. How we should all tremble before Him - our God is an idol if we make him ONLY to be a "God of love"......

Seeker of truth
Jun 13th 2008, 02:46 PM
People need to know what hell really is. The Word can not be sugar coated or softened up as to not scare people. Sometimes we need to be scared.

Cloudwalker
Jun 13th 2008, 03:22 PM
Yes, we need to talk about all aspects of God, including His holiness and righteousness. But we must remember that more people are loved into the kingdom than are ever scared into it. It is a fine balance but if we don't try to maintain it we are in danger of going off the deep end on one side or the other and in the process we may take many innocent people with us.

JesusPhreak27
Jul 30th 2008, 07:51 PM
It all depends on the spirit behind the message. Is it one of legalism and performance or is it one of love and repentance?

Jonah preached fire and brimstone and watched an entire city convert. John the Baptist preached a similar message and watched many resist.

Perfectly put Brother.....

If all the preacher is teaching is that you have to do this that and the other or you will end up in eternal damnation then I dont think that is a correct way of doing it.....but if a preacher warns in a loving way that certain things (basically walking away from the saving power of the Corss) can lead you to Hell then that is fine.....

Though I do think that every once in a while it is good for a pastor to remind his congregation.....because if not people will tend to start living too much of the world......

TRL1957
Jul 30th 2008, 11:11 PM
Yes, I absolutely agree that Hell must be talked about at church, but, that type of severe, screaming at you, preaching, drives away some. Causing some to fear God. Believe it or not, many can be won to Christ when they hear of the awesome love He has for us, and the ultimate sacrifice He gave for us. They can be drawn to Christ, out of love, not fear.

Cloudwalker
Aug 1st 2008, 10:30 PM
More people are loved into the kingdom than are ever scared into it. The reality of hell needs to be told but ALWAYS in connection with the love of Christ.

9Marksfan
Aug 1st 2008, 11:01 PM
More people are loved into the kingdom than are ever scared into it. The reality of hell needs to be told but ALWAYS in connection with the love of Christ.

I have been thinking about this recently - preaching that is EITHER all fire and brimstone OR all love (and let's face it, the danger is to go for the latter!) is a defective view of God - it's only when the FULL character of God is proclaimed that people will see His GLORY - and THAT is what conversion is all about:-

For God, who said "Let light shine out of darkness", has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the GLORY of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4:6 ESV

MrAnteater
Aug 21st 2008, 02:59 PM
It's absolutely necessary but should used in balance with other messages.

Sin and hell are not politically correct messages which causes some pastors to hide from the topics. It's a huge mistake and is doing a disservice to followers. Some of these TV pastors are prime examples. Is the word sin even in their vocabulary?

I think today we now have the opposite problem from what Jesus dealt with in the Pharisees. The church leaders today are teaching all love and no consequences or repentance of sin.

Buzzword
Oct 2nd 2008, 12:07 AM
It's absolutely necessary but should used in balance with other messages.

Sin and hell are not politically correct messages which causes some pastors to hide from the topics. It's a huge mistake and is doing a disservice to followers. Some of these TV pastors are prime examples. Is the word sin even in their vocabulary?

I think today we now have the opposite problem from what Jesus dealt with in the Pharisees. The church leaders today are teaching all love and no consequences or repentance of sin.

That depends on the televangelist.

While there are many who are feel-good sermon writers (Crystal Cathedral, etc.) I've seen many more (falwell, roberson, etc) who have made their fortunes by yelling and screaming that this or that person (or the country as a whole) is going to BUURRRN.

Jules C
Oct 6th 2008, 09:07 PM
I vote for balance - it has its place, but too much fire and brimstone could quite easily drive someone to despair.

Izdaari
Oct 7th 2008, 02:35 AM
Different styles of preaching work with different audiences, and fire and brimstone can be an effective style, depending on that. If the Holy Spirit moves you to do it, then do it, and do it with all your might. Don't say no to what God tells you! He always knows best.

But in general I'm not a fan of it. I think more people are turned off to the Gospel by it than are won over to it. People today are very resistant to "hard sell" approaches to any product, service or belief. Gentle persuasion is usually more effective.

DARKastheRAIN
Oct 8th 2008, 09:12 AM
Just don't be too condescending about it. don't try to make everyone feel guilty or scared just for the sake of it. Be firm, but loving.

people sometimes seem to speak of Hell in a rather smug way at times. Like "we're so cool for being Christians, we're going to Heaven, but the rest of them, oooohh... are they in for it." Anyone going to Hell is a sad, horrible thing. Jesus died for these people, and He loves them. They could be saved if they only accepted Him. Approach it somberly, it's a tradgedy.

Also, the best way to convince non-believers, most likely isn't to threaten them with Hell.

Rufus_1611
Oct 8th 2008, 05:27 PM
...

Also, the best way to convince non-believers, most likely isn't to threaten them with Hell.

To some saving with compassion makes a difference. For others, the Hell needs to be scared out of them.


"And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." - Jude 1:22-23

DARKastheRAIN
Oct 8th 2008, 09:27 PM
But can you scare a non-believer with something they don't believe in anyway? Most of those situations would probably be people who believe but keep on sinning anyway.

But sure, if it works it works.

But before you do that, you need to be sure that by doing so you are pulling them out of the fire, not pushing them further in and destroying any chance of them ever giving Christianity another thought again.

Also before you start trying to scare some one, be aware of your motivations. That you are trying to save them because you love them, not because it's gonna get you a notch on your belt. And not because you think scaring people about Hell is fun. The verse says, pull them out of the fire, that would seem to imply that you stick your hand in there even if it means you could get hurt. Doing that would at least rule out the fun option

P.S. as I'm at risk for seeming like the most disagreeable person on earth to my newly met fellow child of God :), I'll just say that I wasn't actually saying you were wrong this time. Just adding to what you said. And by the way, thank you, I found your input helpful. :)

XOXOXO love ya, even though we tend to look at things diferently :hug:

JesusReignsForever
Nov 21st 2008, 05:32 PM
I think it is necessart to teach sermons on hell but not only hell because for some new believers God can come across as some evil spirit trying to send you to hell for any ole thing. So I am netrul it is good but it also can cause extreme fear. I however always enjoy a good fire and brimestone sermon. :)

Samsheep2
Nov 30th 2008, 01:04 PM
As a newbie to this forum I am not a newbie to the subject and after reading a number of the remarks my take on this is;...

What did Jesus have to say about Hell as opposed to heaven?

Rufus_1611
Nov 30th 2008, 08:14 PM
As a newbie to this forum I am not a newbie to the subject and after reading a number of the remarks my take on this is;...

What did Jesus have to say about Hell as opposed to heaven? He spoke more about Hell than he did Heaven and the curious thing is, he was typically warning his disciples about it.

Here's a few samples...

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28


"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." - Mark 9:43-48


"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." - Matthew 5:22

Samsheep2
Dec 5th 2008, 03:33 PM
He spoke more about Hell than he did Heaven and the curious thing is, he was typically warning his disciples about it.


Exactly, and my response was to indicate that very thing - love today has been white-washed to the degree that most over look what love is all about - for instance it was not love as far as hearing that brought me to Christ - the bible is plain that:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Paul is saying that love alone is not the answer to mans salvation - yes God did "SO-LOVE" the world but, most do not understand what that means. I am not a fatalist nor am I Arminian as far as theology goes - but I am a biblicists and always will be. Therefore what saith the scriptures!!!

If one were to study this within the context and then rightly divide the word of God they would have to come to this conclusion - man is at enmity with God and until He starts to drawing him man has not interest in the way, the truth or the life.

God bless,

JesusMySavior
Dec 6th 2008, 04:29 AM
And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Jude 22-23)

:idea:


remember it says that some need compassion, others need fear. not EVERYONE needs compassion and not EVERYONE needs fear. I think a good sound solid foundation of an equal balance of both is a great thing.

9Marksfan
Dec 6th 2008, 09:07 AM
And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Jude 22-23)

:idea:


remember it says that some need compassion, others need fear. not EVERYONE needs compassion and not EVERYONE needs fear. I think a good sound solid foundation of an equal balance of both is a great thing.

Excellent point - well said!

James of Sunshine
Dec 9th 2008, 09:05 PM
I was raised on fire and brimstone preaching. To me it describes the method not the message. Hell is perfectly good subject matter as is evil. I enjoy a good ole fashioned fire and brimstone style sermon if it is done in the right spirit but I tend to enjoy a style that seems more rational or controlled. Forceful yes. Maniacal no. It's probably just me and the fact I spent many of my formative years having the begeebers scared out of me by apparent lunatics. We were in the UPC until I was 15 years of age and then we switched to the relatively docile SBC. Thank God for that!