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Brother Mark
May 27th 2008, 09:40 PM
What do you get out of this verse concerning glory?

1 Cor 11:7
7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
NASB

9Marksfan
May 28th 2008, 12:12 AM
What do you get out of this verse concerning glory?

1 Cor 11:7
7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
NASB

He is the crown of God's creation - but what do you get from these ones?

who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person... Heb 1:3 NKJV

Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me... Jn 17:24a NKJV

We are to be consumed with a passion for Christ, who has received great glory for dying for our sins and rising again - arfe you suggesting that we should glory in ourselves becuase we are the image and glory of God? Er, does this mean that the womenfolk glory in the menfolk? And that the women are somehow NOT the image and glory of God?

Brother Mark
May 28th 2008, 12:55 AM
are you suggesting that we should glory in ourselves becuase we are the image and glory of God? Er, does this mean that the womenfolk glory in the menfolk? And that the women are somehow NOT the image and glory of God?


Oh, my first post was very unassuming. I haven't suggested anything yet. ;) Maybe it is time to start. I like the verses you quote. Jesus was the exact image and nature of God. He was the brightness of His glory.

Jesus... the brightness of the glory of God. That's an interesting statement. What does that mean? How are we then to be the glory of God?

Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
NASB

How are we glorified?

timmyb
May 28th 2008, 01:39 AM
that's interesting... this is deep... meditation time... :P

he DOES put his Spirit, his very being inside of us... the third person of the Trinity, the fullness of God dwelling in man... that's as good a guess as I got...

Saved7
May 28th 2008, 01:45 AM
God's own character=Jesus=what we are to be like.
We are supposed to glorify God by being more like Jesus. By being made more and more into His image, we are made more and more like Christ, who is the reflection of God. We are to be the same reflection, we are to be made in God's image through Christ who is the EXACT image of God.

timmyb
May 28th 2008, 01:50 AM
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

we are glorified by beholding his image and being transformed by it... from glory to glory... this is amazing and powerful... glorious... ahhh

good post saved7

Saved7
May 28th 2008, 02:54 AM
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

we are glorified by beholding his image and being transformed by it... from glory to glory... this is amazing and powerful... glorious... ahhh

good post saved7


I was wondering if someone would pick up on that scripture, I was too lazy I admit to search/copy/paste and all that.:) Now what does it mean to BEHOLD Him?Over and over the bible tells us to behold the Lamb of God/Jesus/Christ. It goes deeper than simply looking at something/one.

DiscipleofChrist
May 28th 2008, 06:08 AM
I think it means that we (humans) are his greatest creation.

9Marksfan
May 28th 2008, 08:32 AM
I was wondering if someone would pick up on that scripture, I was too lazy I admit to search/copy/paste and all that.:) Now what does it mean to BEHOLD Him?Over and over the bible tells us to behold the Lamb of God/Jesus/Christ. It goes deeper than simply looking at something/one.

I think it means to gaze upon Him in love and wonder - kind of like when you're in love and you just can't stop looking at the girl and you're in awe at how beautiful she is - so that we treasure Christ above all else in life.

9Marksfan
May 28th 2008, 08:34 AM
Oh, my first post was very unassuming. I haven't suggested anything yet. ;) Maybe it is time to start. I like the verses you quote. Jesus was the exact image and nature of God. He was the brightness of His glory.

Jesus... the brightness of the glory of God. That's an interesting statement. What does that mean? How are we then to be the glory of God?

Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
NASB

How are we glorified?

Ah, NOW I see where you are going! Yes, our ultimate purpose is to be conformed to the image of Christ - when we see Him, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM, FOR WE SHALL SEE HIM AS HE IS! WOO HOO! :pp:pp:pp

Brother Mark
May 28th 2008, 12:46 PM
Ah, NOW I see where you are going! Yes, our ultimate purpose is to be conformed to the image of Christ - when we see Him, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM, FOR WE SHALL SEE HIM AS HE IS! WOO HOO! :pp:pp:pp

And that is how we are glorified. We become "like him". Timmy posted a great verse above. As we read the mirror of the word, we see Him in us. Where we are out of whack, we straighten it up in order to be more like Him. Still, a simple reading of the following verse is profound! When we look into a mirror, what do we see? When a saved man looks into a mirror, he should see the body of Christ.

2 Cor 3:17-18
18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
NASB

Glory is not just praise. However, when one sees the glory of God, praise will follow! We have misunderstood glory in scriptures. It is character. God is glorified when we become like Him in character. Jesus glorified God because he was just like God in character. Man was created to be in the image and glory of God. Man's character was to be molded and shaped into the character of God or said another way "Man is the image and glory of God".

The Village Idiot
May 28th 2008, 01:14 PM
And then there is this:


"I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake" (Ps 17:15).

The Glory/Face of Yahweh is incorporated directly into the liturgy in my faith tradition. It is one of my favorite parts of worship--when at the conclusion of service, pastor stretches out his arms over the congregation and says...


"The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace. "So shall they put my name upon the people of Israel, and I will bless them" (Nu 6:24-26).

Saved7
May 28th 2008, 06:44 PM
I think it means to gaze upon Him in love and wonder - kind of like when you're in love and you just can't stop looking at the girl and you're in awe at how beautiful she is - so that we treasure Christ above all else in life.

Yes, to gaze would be a good example...have you ever looked at something that is soooo beautiful, like a crystal clear brook, and just looked deeply at it, as though you just can't get enough. Like you are trying to "feel" it and understand it's beauty in some way. It's kind of like that sort of looking. With a deep desire to not only admire it, but become a part of it, immersed in that water and understand it, to experience it.
That is how in depth we are to look at our Lord, in order to become more like Him, we have to become more and more a part of Him; understand His nature and character in our hearts, allow Him to become the breath we breath, the life blood in us.
At least that's the best I can describe it, with such finite human words.:dunno:

timmyb
May 28th 2008, 09:47 PM
sitting in his presence helps alot

Mark F
May 28th 2008, 10:34 PM
What is a proper response if we come to see the glory of the Lord and understand it properly? How should it affect us?

1 Peter 5:5b-7
“ God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you."


What was Isaiah's response?

Isaiah 6:5
So I said:


“ Woe is me, for I am undone!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King,
The LORD of hosts.”


Or Peter's?

Luke 5:4-8

"When He had stopped speaking, He said to Simon, “Launch out into the deep and let down your nets for a catch.”
5 But Simon answered and said to Him, “Master, we have toiled all night and caught nothing; nevertheless at Your word I will let down the net.” 6 And when they had done this, they caught a great number of fish, and their net was breaking. 7 So they signaled to their partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both the boats, so that they began to sink. 8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, “Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!”



I guess these passages show me that when these men honestly saw themselves and their condition before a Holy God, they were not thinking wow, awesome, beautiful, no, they recognized just how unworthy and how truly sinful they were, they were devestated.


Not to dampen your spirits, just trying to add some balance.

Good posts.

timmyb
May 28th 2008, 10:39 PM
oh yeah... humility and a teachable heart is a must when it comes to beholding a holy God... John fell on his face like he was dead in the presence of the Holy God...

Lars777
May 29th 2008, 12:12 AM
For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) (1 Corinthians 11:7-9)




That is a very crucial paragraph, and one that we must note carefully and understand fully. You will notice the apostle does not base his reasons on any local custom.

He goes back to creation to establish this. The principle of headship is something true from the beginning of mankind. Paul does just as Jesus did on the subject of divorce. He does not bother with the interpretations and amendments that came by the Law of Moses, but he goes back to God's original created order.

So does the apostle here. He says that, in the beginning, man was made in the image and glory of God. Image is the full manifestation of something. In this case it is God himself.

Man was made in God's image in order that any creature, looking at a man, would see the likeness, the very nature of God. That is the dignity of humanity.

What we must bear clearly in mind is that, when Genesis states the man was made in the image of God, it was made before the two sexes were separated. Adam was first created, and it was of Adam, before Eve was separated from him, that it is said that man is the image and glory of God.

This means that after the separation woman shares the image and the glory of God equally with the male. They are both included when it is said that man was made in the image and the glory of God.

That is why in Genesis 5 (not Genesis 1 now, but Genesis 5) it says that God created them in the beginning male and female and he named them Adam (Genesis 5:1-2).

He did not name them the Adams's, he named them Adam. Therefore, the woman bears equally with the male the image and glory of God.

That is very important. The male, however, is called upon to manifest a certain aspect of the glory of God different from that of the woman. We shall understand that better when we understand the meaning of glory.

What is glory? As it is used here, the word refers to something in which one takes delight. We have often sung the hymn, In the Cross of Christ I Glory. What do we mean by that?

We mean the cross is something in which we find supreme delight. It is that principle of life by which we see ourselves cut off from the old Adam life and freed from the control of sin and death; thus set free to be the men and women God intended us to be.

Understanding that we sing quite properly (along with the Apostle Paul), "In the Cross of Christ I Glory." Paul could write to the Thessalonians and say, "Who is our crown of rejoicing? Are you not our glory and our joy?" 1 Thessalonians 2:19).

So used, this verse tells us that, when man was created, he was made to reflect the nature of God, and, in that, God takes great delight. He delights in mankind and this is what the male is to represent.

That glory of God is to be publicly and openly manifested and that is why the man must not wear a veil. He is not to cover God's creative glory. He is to be unveiled so that the glory of God in creation should be visibly manifest to everyone.

You see this beautifully in the life of Jesus. Everywhere he went he demonstrated the love of God for mankind. Even though the race had turned aside and was far from what it ought to be, everywhere in the ministry of Jesus you see him pouring forth the love of God for man.

That is what drew people by great multitudes to hear his words. In him they caught a glimpse of the glory and delight that God takes in humanity and they longed to find the way back to the enjoyment of that delight.

Thus in the opening words of John's gospel it says, "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," and "we beheld his glory," (John 1:14). This is the glory that a man, a male, is called upon to manifest in the ministry of the Word.

He is not to be veiled because he is proclaiming that open delight which God takes in the creation of mankind.

But woman is the glory of the man. It is in the woman that the man finds his delight, and, if you do not believe that, just watch a couple of teenagers in love.

Woman is the delight of man. The apostle is now dealing with the woman as having been separated from the man. The distinction which obtained when God took Adam's rib and made of it a woman and brought her to man now comes into focus.

It involves a private, intimate glory, that intimacy which a man finds in his wife, the intimacy of sexual relationship and of shared love. It is something hidden and private, therefore it is to be symbolized by a veil.

It marks something protected, something marked out for a single individual's use. Thus the veil is not a mark of subjection, as many of the commentators say of this passage, it is a mark of intimacy, of privacy, voluntarily assumed by the woman.

She is not forced to give herself to the man, she deliberately chooses to do so, but from then on she is marked out as belonging to him.

The nearest equivalent of this in our day is the wedding ring. A wedding ring marks a woman as belonging to another, already claimed. She has given herself freely and voluntarily to a man and she is his, not in a mechanical or merely legal sense, but because she has already surrendered her right to herself to him.

That is always the meaning of the veil in the Eastern World. It still is today. A veiled woman walks down a street of an Oriental city today and she is telling the whole world "I am not for sale; I do not belong to anyone but my husband; I am his."

In wearing a veil a woman also gives testimony to the existence of another aspect of the glory of God, the intimacy of delight that is achieved only through redemption. When we enter, by faith in Jesus Christ, into the new birth we discover a glory of God beyond creation.

It is redemptive glory. We all have experienced it, if we are Christians. We know the ecstasy of fellowship with God, of worship, of experiencing the beautiful and intimate love relationship of a bride with her bridegroom, described in that marvelous passage in the fifth chapter of Ephesians.

That is what a woman manifests in her public ministry when she wears a veil. She is symbolizing that intimate delight which God has in a redeemed mankind. I cannot now dwell on that, though I think it very important, but this is surely why Paul goes on to point out the unique purpose for the creation of woman.

"For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man."

Woman was taken from man in order that she might share fully his nature. Man and woman are not two different kinds of beings. They do not represent two species of human life.

They have differences, but they are of the same basic nature. This is what is meant by 'woman being taken from man.' But, in addition, she is brought to man. She was brought to him that she might be 'for' him.

This, I think, is the key thought involved in headship. She is for her husband; she is behind him, backing him up; she is supportive of him; she wants him to succeed and she is deeply involved in the process.

She is undergirding him in every way she can, and finding delight in doing so, that together they might achieve the objectives which his head, Christ, has set before them. Now, that is God's ideal of marriage.

In turn, the male is to discover the secrets God has put into his wife, and seek to develop her, so that she will be all that she is capable of being. In doing so he is but advancing his own objectives.

This is the argument of Ephesians 5. They are one and no man hates his own flesh. If he hurts his wife he hurts himself; if he ignores her, he is ignoring half of his own life. There is no way that he can achieve the fullness of his manhood in marriage apart from working at developing and encouraging his wife to utilize all the gifts and abilities God has put in her.

Thus, the reciprocal relationship so frequently appearing in Scripture on marriage. It is this that creates the beauty of every wedding. When a man and a woman stand together to be married, the marriage ceremony has for centuries recognized that she is giving herself to him, and he promises to treat that gift with kindness, tenderness and loving care.

He is not giving himself to her; she is giving herself to him: That is the point. He is responsible to cherish that gift as the most valuable gift that any human has ever given him, and to protect it and guard it.

She is basically saying to him those beautiful words in the book of Ruth, "Where you go I will go. Where you live I will live. Your people shall be my people and your God, my God," Ruth 1:16).

Now, if you do not want to do that, then do not get married -- because that is what marriage means. If man or a woman is not willing to assume his or her proper role in marriage, then, by all means, stay single, but when marriage occurs that is what is meant.