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NMKeith
Jun 3rd 2008, 01:09 AM
The most common argument within the church against any sort of use of marijuana or other drug use is the "Pharmakeia argument". Although this argument can be heard in almost any church, it is hard to recognize in a casual Bible reading. In order to come to the conclusion of the Pharmakeia argument one needs to study the original Koinne Greek Bible text. Pharmakeia is a Greek word found in the New Testament that means medication, pharmacy, magic, sorcery and witchcraft. Its root is pharmakon which refers to a druggist, pharmacist, poisoner, magician or sorcerer. God clearly states that Pharmakeia (the use of drugs) is a sin in Galatians 5:19-20; "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft" (Pharmakeia).

Most people are shocked when they learn that this verse refers to drug use. Contrary to popular belief, marijuana is not a new drug. In fact, just recently marijuana ashes were found in a fourth-century tomb. The drug was believed to have been smoked by a pregnant teenager sixteen hundred years ago. Some documentations of marijuana use date back as far as the nineteenth century B.C.

The popularity and use of marijuana has increased within the past few years. This pattern of today's intensified drug use was prophesied almost two thousand years ago in the book of Revelation. There are three passages in this book that speak directly about Pharmakeia, Revelation 9:21; 21:8; and 22:15. These three verses tell of the sinfulness of drug use, the non repenting hearts of the users, the state of the end times, the separation of drug users from the kingdom of God, and their second death by placement into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. We conclude that God is very serious about how he deals with this sin.

Marijuana is a hallucinogenic (Funk and Wagnalls 445). This is one of the reasons why using it is sorcery and witchcraft. With the use of drugs, you are opening yourself up to all sorts of spiritual attacks and seducing spirits. Mind altering drugs are used in witchcraft to alter your reality. This can be very dangerous. This is why God calls us to be sober and avoid attacks from Satan (I Peter 5:8). This implies that if we are high, we cannot avoid attacks from the evil one.

In conclusion, marijuana is not a biblical sacrament that we must take in order to become closer to God. In fact, the Bible speaks against marijuana because it is a sin. Marijuana is clearly a stronghold that Satan has used on this world for many generations. God can deliver and heal one from an addiction to marijuana. The truth can be found only through faithfully studying the word of God.

"The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8)

Sketch
Jun 3rd 2008, 01:57 AM
Dude, awesome post. Great information you got together there!




I used to smoke pot, every day. Multiple times a day. Go to work high, look forward to getting off of work to get high. Getting high! It always released me from my thoughts. I say always. It usually did. The down-side is that it caused problem-thoughts from which I had to escape again!

Indeed, satans attacks are vibrant and punctual when you're using weed. His presense is strong, unrelenting and powerful. He's terrifying, and persistent.



I'm glad you posted this! It's always good to have extra ammunition when facing arguments from the other side.



-Casey

diffangle
Jun 3rd 2008, 02:12 AM
Does pharmakeia extends beyond marijauna.... how about pharmaceuticals? Man takes what our Creator made(plants)... twists/manipulates them into drugs and pharmaceuticals are one of the biggest killers of Americans. :hmm:

NMKeith
Jun 3rd 2008, 02:22 AM
Does pharmakeia extends beyond marijauna.... how about pharmaceuticals? Man takes what our Creator made(plants)... twists/manipulates them into drugs and pharmaceuticals are one of the biggest killers of Americans. :hmm:


You know I'm not a Bible Scholar, but again Pharmakeia is a Greek word found in the New Testament that means medication, pharmacy, magic, sorcery and witchcraft. Its root is pharmakon which refers to a druggist, pharmacist, poisoner, magician or sorcerer. So I can only look at this at face value.

Now here is the hope in the Bible. The Lord looks at the heart. God knows if one is taking medication for a "high" or some other self absorbed reason; or is it really to relieve stress, pain, high blood pressure, cancer, diabetic supplies etc etc. So we must look at first, drug use is mentioned in the Bible and second, that it's a sin and third, God will search the heart of man to determine the usage of it.

Sketch
Jun 3rd 2008, 02:32 AM
I agree with the post above me. I know that God looks at the heart before He looks at the action, but I also have to say that God does take into account self-made ignorance.


It's a hard line to cross, to say, "We should not, as Christians, take medication and pharmeceuticals for our ailments," but what, then, do you say to the mentally bound who are in horrors as schizophrenia rips through their entire being? Night after night of torment they may experience, and yet we say, "Do not take the medication."


We believe in an Almighty God who can rescue anyone, but in our world, we see many believers suffering immensley from certain ailments. Is that to say that Chemotherapy is a sort of solution in scientific magic? Is it not the same, or similar, to ingesting a drug of some kind to heal the body?


Where is line drawn?



-Casey

NMKeith
Jun 3rd 2008, 02:35 AM
Also notice that the pharmaceuticals are making so much money off their products. Many have made medications that were distributed and re-called because of side effects. Other medications have made these pharmaceuticals companies millionaires. Viagra was used first as a woman's high blood pressure medicine. It went so well for the women they thought they would expand it to the male gender. In doing so, they found a cure (or so they say) that can fix a man's erectile dysfunction. Therefore they took it off the market for two years, did more studies and re-marketed as an erectile dysfunction medication.. And made millions if not billions have been made by now for a little blue pill.. I'm sure God is looking down on them as well as those on the streets pushing crack to our kids. Sin is sin and only God can define the justice one shall receive..

In the interim: I'm not against a medication that can help. So if you have a erectile dysfunction, this was not meant for you, it was an example I used to show how pharmaceuticals companies try to make a buck off someone's illness. Sometimes it may be for the better, and other times we find ourself looking at them in a casket. Because no one bothered to do more research before they distributed them to the retail pharmacies.

ARCHER42
Jun 3rd 2008, 09:20 PM
A merry heart doeth good LIKE A MEDICINE, but a broken spirit drieth the bones....
Proverbs 17:22

Medicine and doctors have their place... God uses them..... as He sees fit.....

They day they come up with a pill to take away or cleanse yourself of 'sin'.. or to be 'Godly'... will be a very dangerous day... I woulnd't be suprised to see someobody try to hatch that scheme... can you imagine the money that would be made from that.. and of course... it is UNBIBLICAL.. very very very....much so....

the Cross and the atoning sacrafice dealt away with for a 'pill'....

I wouldnt be suprised to see that coming soon...

theleast
Jun 3rd 2008, 10:02 PM
Nice post NMKeith

Question though. Could not the word also be used to mean witchcraft?

Many passages and words have double meaning, and in the context it would seem either is a good fit.

Besides drug abuse is no different than drunkeness, which is frowned upon in scirpture as well.

RJ Mac
Jun 3rd 2008, 11:21 PM
Sorcery is the use of drugs to accomplish one's desires.
The most dangerous drug on the market I believe is the most common and
accessible and that is WORDS! How one uses words can be like a drug.

A man can sweep a woman off her feet using the right words.
A father can destroy or encourage his children, using words.
A preacher can lead a flock to hell , just in his use of words.
A teenage boy can seduce a teenage girl, just using the right words.
The list can go on.

Is this why the Bible warns us not to lie, speak the truth to one another.

A young man confided in me, he would hang out in malls, and befriend
the loneliest teenage girls he could spot. Using words he swooned them,
buying them gifts he won their trust, over time he convinced them to
go to another city with them for the day, only to trap them in apartment
and put them to work in prostitution. Most teens today are not looking
for sex, but love in the form of: words of affirmation, a gentle touch,
gifts, quality time and acts of service, the 5 love languages.

Children are looking for love, which the parents don't know how to give.
But sorcerers today know how to take advantage simply with words and
the child is snared and most times for life.

I just wanted to share the fact that sorcery is everywhere and our kids
need to be made AWARE so they can BEWARE.

Great thread Keith. I appreciate your insights.

RJ Mac

Gentile
Jun 4th 2008, 12:46 PM
Really intertesting thread! But what about the rastafarians? Marijuana is major spiritual ritual for the rastas. Personally I dont think marijuana is bad, sinful, the devil's drug, ect. Its a seed that GOD gave to us on earth. Now the problem doesnt stand with marijuana is stands with the individual who smokes. If you have an addictive personality or abuse it, just like you can abuse anything, it will lead to problems.

Used respectfully marijuana is a great gift from GOD, especially for medical use. People who are suffering from cancer, stomach illness, of course glaucoma, arthritis, etc.

I do disagree that it is from the devil though.

Kingsdaughter
Jun 5th 2008, 04:22 AM
But what about the rastafarians? Marijuana is major spiritual ritual for the rastas.

What about the rastas?...do they believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation? They don't worship the God that I worship, so it doesn't matter to me if THEY are smokin for whatever reason, it not going to make me think it's okay to smoke it. in my culture we have witch doctors, they are not called that, but they are called healers, they are supposed to have supernatural powers to heal people while praying to a pagan god, does that mean I am going to go to them if I am sick? heck no, I will go to a doctor or ask Jesus to heal me. " by His stripes we are healed".

Sketch
Jun 5th 2008, 04:38 AM
Really intertesting thread! But what about the rastafarians? Marijuana is major spiritual ritual for the rastas. Personally I dont think marijuana is bad, sinful, the devil's drug, ect. Its a seed that GOD gave to us on earth. Now the problem doesnt stand with marijuana is stands with the individual who smokes. If you have an addictive personality or abuse it, just like you can abuse anything, it will lead to problems.

Used respectfully marijuana is a great gift from GOD, especially for medical use. People who are suffering from cancer, stomach illness, of course glaucoma, arthritis, etc.

I do disagree that it is from the devil though.


I'll say first that you theoretically make good points. I don't think anyone can take away what you've done here to reason that it may not be all that bad.


And, who are we, really, to argue? If what you said were a true statement, which I don't believe it completely is, do you think it'd be okay for Christians to smoke it assuming that the opinion of it in the secular world stayed the same as it currently is?

We must control our body in a way that is Holy and Honorable (Thes 4:4), and whether you eat or drink, do it to the glory of God (Cor. 10:31), and I know that for the layman, to get stoned, is not to the Glory of God. One, it's against the law in most countries. Whether or not we agree with that ruling isn't an issue -- fact is, since it's so looked down upon globally, it's impossible for us to Glorify Him and act honorably and smoke it at the same time.

Even if it WEREN'T looked down upon, I equate it with alcohol in a sense. It causes the mind to not behave and respond normally (Coming from a former "Biggest pot head of all time"), and thus, I can't see how smoking glorifies Him in any way. It's a tough subject, but, if we speak realistically, we know the answer is no.


There is no other rationalization for it. It's a no, for all christians, and that's that.



-Casey

Revinius
Jun 5th 2008, 10:39 AM
regardless of what it is and was, all drugs universally make you stupid and make you do things you wouldnt normally do. That means that when you willingly take them you are saying to God: "I dont find joy in you, i find joy in this plant (or whatever)". That aside, losing control of yourself is something that i believe is sinful, if you willingly take something that can lead you to sin as a consequence (because you arent in control) then your being sinful.

NathanPR
Jun 5th 2008, 11:07 AM
NMKeith, I am going to have to strongly disagree with your arguments. By stating that the usage of marihuana is a sin, is to put yourself above the word of the same Lord that I have so much faith in. I am an on and off user, I have never felt the need to smoke due to any sort of problems I may undergo, I use it in a social setting to feel good with friends and rarely by myself (please note that I do not need it to feel good). Also about your arguement that it is a hallucigen, well I personally don't know how much you would have to smoke to hallucinate but I have never, and I repeat NEVER hallucinated or had a misconstrued perception of reality, if anything it motivates me to learn more about the word of God. For example one day after getting "high," two door to door pastors arrived at one of my friend's house and instead of neglecting them we invited them in to have a discussion about the bible and the end times, which turned out to be one of the most uplifting experiences I have ever had. Not only did the four of us learn and discuss a lot about Revelations and other books in the bible, yet we were told by the pastors that we had been the only ones who had been willing to let them in and talk about our faith, to the extent that they were deeply gratified with us. This further proves my point that marihuana makes people more open to discussion about everything having to do with the God that I love and desire so much. For you to condone my activities as evil, sorcery and witchcraft is the most unintelligent and biased opinion I have ever heard. In fact the bible makes many references to the inhaling of insence mixed with cannabis aka marihuana in the old testament, proof that many of the ancients used this as a way to feel closer to God. Not to mention in Genesis God states, Genesis 1:29 — And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food." Remember you can also consume the plant by mouth (which actually gives a greater effect) so by you telling me that marihuana is an exception to this is like I said before, to put yourself above God's word which as any true christian knows is one of the greatest sins that exists. Marihuana is a plant, not a drug. The definition of a drug is a substance that has been chemically altered, therefore, cocaine is a drug, heroine is a drug, even nicotine is a drug yet marihuana is a plant that God has given us to make use of, which may I remind you, if you do your research... it has thousands of uses, ranging from clothing to food, all the way to a source of fuel which we so badly need in these times. Even the ancients knew of about twelve uses for the plant. Jesus as a fisherman must have used nets made out of hemp (marihuana) so how can you tell me that this simple and useful plant is a sin from the devil? I pray to God that he can intervene and change your concept on this topic of which you are so ignorant.

God be with us all!

NathanPR
Jun 5th 2008, 11:23 AM
"We must control our body in a way that is Holy and Honorable (Thes 4:4), and whether you eat or drink, do it to the glory of God (Cor. 10:31), and I know that for the layman, to get stoned, is not to the Glory of God. One, it's against the law in most countries. Whether or not we agree with that ruling isn't an issue -- fact is, since it's so looked down upon globally, it's impossible for us to Glorify Him and act honorably and smoke it at the same time."



Im sorry to say but, are you going to agree with the government and the laws in the end times they begin to persecute Christians? Laws are made by man, and sometimes, probably most of the time, they are created by senseless, irrational, ungodly men. If Christians had agreed with government and laws since the beginning of time we might all be catholics. This is just some food for though but really... think before you post here please!!! I cant believe ppl are so far from the truth and so manipulated by this erroneous system that we live in, I abide only by God's laws and what he states in the bible and as far as I'm concerned there is no passage that prohibits the use of Marihuana in the bible, if there is, please let me know! In fact if anything there are arguments that support it.
Government, at least in the United States is a separation of Church and State so it is clear that they have different values aside from those that the bible states, and as a christian I defend my beliefs in the only one true law system that exists which is that of God.

Eaglenester
Jun 5th 2008, 12:18 PM
Does pharmakeia extends beyond marijauna.... how about pharmaceuticals? Man takes what our Creator made(plants)... twists/manipulates them into drugs and pharmaceuticals are one of the biggest killers of Americans. :hmm:

Hom many people claiming to have Messiah, in terms of action, have more hope placed in pharmaceuticals for their health and well being than in The Almighty Creator Yahweh?

That more of their world, from time allotment, is centered around pharmaceuticals rather than on THE Healer Yahweh and His Living Word?

Look at the drugging of the youth today with add/adhd - tell me that's not a form of sorcery.

Gentile
Jun 5th 2008, 12:27 PM
What about the rastas?...do they believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation? They don't worship the God that I worship, so it doesn't matter to me if THEY are smokin for whatever reason, it not going to make me think it's okay to smoke it. in my culture we have witch doctors, they are not called that, but they are called healers, they are supposed to have supernatural powers to heal people while praying to a pagan god, does that mean I am going to go to them if I am sick? heck no, I will go to a doctor or ask Jesus to heal me. " by His stripes we are healed".


Actually they do worship the GOD you do. The Holy Bible is a major part of their culture. They don't smoke to worship GOD, it all started out to get them into deep meditation while in prayer or reading the bible.

Eaglenester
Jun 5th 2008, 12:38 PM
Actually they do worship the GOD you do. The Holy Bible is a major part of their culture. They don't smoke to worship GOD, it all started out to get them into deep meditation while in prayer or reading the bible.

It's a twisted from truth version of Yahweh - Jws and mormons have Scripture, but they form a different god than the Elohim of Scripture.

Central rastas (there are differing variations) beliefs deviate and contradict Scripture in many areas.

daughter
Jun 5th 2008, 01:20 PM
What an excellent OP! Thank you for getting all that information together... well done!

To the new NathanPR... may I point out that marijuana is almost always illegal to use, and that it usually gets to your drug dealer by way of much illegal activity, including child labour. That should be reason enough for no Christian to touch it. Even if you "grow your own", you are supposed to obey the laws of the land, and not tempt others to sin. If you are a Christian smoking marijuana, even if there isn't any blood on it, and you picked it yourself, then you're causing your brother to stumble. You must realise that that is a bad thing.

Gentile... just to let you know. I have some rasta friends. They are lovely people, and before I was a Christian I thought they were some kind of Christian. I particularly liked them because like me they were into "no harm" and are vegan.

Since becoming Christian I've discovered that they have some very weird ideas about who the Messiah is!

Some Rastas do get saved and come out of it. But the religion itself is not Christian.

diffangle
Jun 5th 2008, 02:04 PM
Since becoming Christian I've discovered that they have some very weird ideas about who the Messiah is!


Amein, they think a former emperor(Haile Selassie I) of Ethiopia is YHWH incarnate.

diffangle
Jun 5th 2008, 02:17 PM
may I point out that marijuana is almost always illegal to use, and that it usually gets to your drug dealer by way of much illegal activity, including child labour.

Imo, governments could protect societies from this sort of activity(child labour, drug deal-related deaths, etc) if they legalized it(and they could tax the pants off it too)... it isn't any different than tobacco or alcohol really. With that said tho, if one lives to(and can't walk away from) smoke/dip their tobacco, have their drink, smoke/eat their pot, eat their twinkies and hohos, workout excessively, etc etc.... then they have made those things their idol and are commiting idolatry.

Kingsdaughter
Jun 5th 2008, 02:24 PM
Actually they do worship the GOD you do.

No, they do not worship the God that I worship.

Gentile
Jun 5th 2008, 03:20 PM
Amein, they think a former emperor(Haile Selassie I) of Ethiopia is YHWH incarnate. :rolleyes:


Yes that is true but again this why Christians get a bad rap all the time. As christians we dont want to come about as our religion is superior. I am just saying that the "roll eyes" is making a mockery out of the rastafarian lifestyle.

Gentile
Jun 5th 2008, 03:21 PM
No, they do not worship the God that I worship.


Is your GOD the one mentioned in the Holy Bible? If so you (we) are worshipping the same GOD. There is one GOD.

Just saying....

Im done.

diffangle
Jun 5th 2008, 03:31 PM
Yes that is true but again this why Christians get a bad rap all the time. As christians we dont want to come about as our religion is superior. I am just saying that the "roll eyes" is making a mockery out of the rastafarian lifestyle.
You're right about the rolling eyes, I'll remove it... but the point still stands that he is not the Messiah and I can't pretend he is for the sake of not coming off as our belief being superior.

Revinius
Jun 5th 2008, 03:40 PM
Im sorry to say but, are you going to agree with the government and the laws in the end times they begin to persecute Christians? Laws are made by man, and sometimes, probably most of the time, they are created by senseless, irrational, ungodly men. If Christians had agreed with government and laws since the beginning of time we might all be catholics. This is just some food for though but really... think before you post here please!!! I cant believe ppl are so far from the truth and so manipulated by this erroneous system that we live in, I abide only by God's laws and what he states in the bible and as far as I'm concerned there is no passage that prohibits the use of Marihuana in the bible, if there is, please let me know! In fact if anything there are arguments that support it.
Government, at least in the United States is a separation of Church and State so it is clear that they have different values aside from those that the bible states, and as a christian I defend my beliefs in the only one true law system that exists which is that of God.

Romans 13:1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

1 Peter 2:13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 17Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.


Pretty self-explanatory mate. Obey the law as long as it doesnt contradict Gods law.

Kingsdaughter
Jun 5th 2008, 04:18 PM
Is your GOD the one mentioned in the Holy Bible? If so you (we) are worshipping the same GOD. There is one GOD.

Just saying....

Im done.

I know the God that I worship, they do not know Him. Unless anyone has been born again and has confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. They do not know God.

Sketch
Jun 5th 2008, 04:36 PM
NMKeith, I am going to have to strongly disagree with your arguments. By stating that the usage of marihuana is a sin, is to put yourself above the word of the same Lord that I have so much faith in. I am an on and off user, I have never felt the need to smoke due to any sort of problems I may undergo, I use it in a social setting to feel good with friends and rarely by myself (please note that I do not need it to feel good). Also about your arguement that it is a hallucigen, well I personally don't know how much you would have to smoke to hallucinate but I have never, and I repeat NEVER hallucinated or had a misconstrued perception of reality, if anything it motivates me to learn more about the word of God. For example one day after getting "high," two door to door pastors arrived at one of my friend's house and instead of neglecting them we invited them in to have a discussion about the bible and the end times, which turned out to be one of the most uplifting experiences I have ever had. Not only did the four of us learn and discuss a lot about Revelations and other books in the bible, yet we were told by the pastors that we had been the only ones who had been willing to let them in and talk about our faith, to the extent that they were deeply gratified with us. This further proves my point that marihuana makes people more open to discussion about everything having to do with the God that I love and desire so much. For you to condone my activities as evil, sorcery and witchcraft is the most unintelligent and biased opinion I have ever heard. In fact the bible makes many references to the inhaling of insence mixed with cannabis aka marihuana in the old testament, proof that many of the ancients used this as a way to feel closer to God. Not to mention in Genesis God states, Genesis 1:29 — And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food." Remember you can also consume the plant by mouth (which actually gives a greater effect) so by you telling me that marihuana is an exception to this is like I said before, to put yourself above God's word which as any true christian knows is one of the greatest sins that exists. Marihuana is a plant, not a drug. The definition of a drug is a substance that has been chemically altered, therefore, cocaine is a drug, heroine is a drug, even nicotine is a drug yet marihuana is a plant that God has given us to make use of, which may I remind you, if you do your research... it has thousands of uses, ranging from clothing to food, all the way to a source of fuel which we so badly need in these times. Even the ancients knew of about twelve uses for the plant. Jesus as a fisherman must have used nets made out of hemp (marihuana) so how can you tell me that this simple and useful plant is a sin from the devil? I pray to God that he can intervene and change your concept on this topic of which you are so ignorant.

God be with us all!




Hmm. I'm going to post this, and I want you to understand my spirit in posting this. I have smoked pounds... and pounds... and pounds of marijuana in my lifetime. I know the effects. I know the spiritual implications of the drug. I KNOW.


It seems to heighten your sense of awareness to your own thoughts, and you catch a wave a what appears to be a higher thought process. It's slower. More peaceful. You can stop and smell the roses. Everything means more, it's mesmerizing, its wonderful in its own right. Do you think I'm confused about the implications of God and Marijuana? Do you really think that in all of my time in using it, I didn't maybe notice SOME of what you're talking about?



Right off the bat, you have proven that you're either new to Christianity, and if you are not, you don't retain information from the bible very well (Could be that short term memory loss, no?). Revinius posted the PERFECT verse for this situation, and it absolutely can not be argued.


If marijuana is illegal where you live, and you smoke it, you are wrong. I assure you, despite your "feelings" I guarantee you with KNOWLEDGE that God does not honor what you're doing, nor does He look on you and smile to say, "Hes smoking weed, and now he is more in line with MY purpose."



That's ridiculous. You should pray. Pray more. PRAY SOME MORE. And read the bible. Because, man, you don't need to be giving anyone advice on anything with that kind of mindset toward your own sinful behavior. You need to pray, let the Spirit convict you, repent, and then read some bible.


And how dare you use the bible to support your sin. God said that it shall be for food. Let's just ASSUME God meant weed was for food. You CAN eat it, but I bet you smoke it 98% of the time anyway. Did He say anything about smoking it? How evil to assume that because God said it's ALL GOOD that you assume that means it's OK to change your perception with it. What a ridiculous argument, it lacks Spirit, it lacks Truth, and you should know that.



...Or maybe if you let the Holy Spirit run your life instead of selfishly conforming Christianity to your beliefs, you would have caught it.





With a firey angry love,




-Casey

Steve M
Jun 5th 2008, 04:37 PM
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1163271#post1163271 (http://bibleforums.org/showpost.php?p=1163271&postcount=24)

A few words on Pharmakeia.

Also see the last post on the thread...

Gentile
Jun 5th 2008, 06:02 PM
Hmm. I'm going to post this, and I want you to understand my spirit in posting this. I have smoked pounds... and pounds... and pounds of marijuana in my lifetime. I know the effects. I know the spiritual implications of the drug. I KNOW.


It seems to heighten your sense of awareness to your own thoughts, and you catch a wave a what appears to be a higher thought process. It's slower. More peaceful. You can stop and smell the roses. Everything means more, it's mesmerizing, its wonderful in its own right. Do you think I'm confused about the implications of God and Marijuana? Do you really think that in all of my time in using it, I didn't maybe notice SOME of what you're talking about?



Right off the bat, you have proven that you're either new to Christianity, and if you are not, you don't retain information from the bible very well (Could be that short term memory loss, no?). Revinius posted the PERFECT verse for this situation, and it absolutely can not be argued.


If marijuana is illegal where you live, and you smoke it, you are wrong. I assure you, despite your "feelings" I guarantee you with KNOWLEDGE that God does not honor what you're doing, nor does He look on you and smile to say, "Hes smoking weed, and now he is more in line with MY purpose."



That's ridiculous. You should pray. Pray more. PRAY SOME MORE. And read the bible. Because, man, you don't need to be giving anyone advice on anything with that kind of mindset toward your own sinful behavior. You need to pray, let the Spirit convict you, repent, and then read some bible.


And how dare you use the bible to support your sin. God said that it shall be for food. Let's just ASSUME God meant weed was for food. You CAN eat it, but I bet you smoke it 98% of the time anyway. Did He say anything about smoking it? How evil to assume that because God said it's ALL GOOD that you assume that means it's OK to change your perception with it. What a ridiculous argument, it lacks Spirit, it lacks Truth, and you should know that.



...Or maybe if you let the Holy Spirit run your life instead of selfishly conforming Christianity to your beliefs, you would have caught it.





With a firey angry love,




-Casey


Sketch nice post, nice to see I am not alone with this type of mindset on this subject. I can relate to the pounds and pounds as well in my heyday ;)

resbmc
Jun 5th 2008, 06:21 PM
I have been telling folks for years this. In the old, part of the old testament, it talks about soecerers, but then it is not mention until tlking mostly about the end days, sorcery is one of those things, and when you look at all the people, and CHILDREN that are put on these mind altering drugs, I know, I know, some may be legit, but most are not, name all the alphabit names, ADD and all of them, it is sorcery.

Revinius
Jun 6th 2008, 03:02 PM
Good post Sketch. We are warriors for Christ and somehow i cant see warriors smoking weed while the barbarians descend around new jerusalem.

Joeoboy123
Mar 21st 2013, 09:28 PM
I have been telling folks for years this. In the old, part of the old testament, it talks about soecerers, but then it is not mention until tlking mostly about the end days, sorcery is one of those things, and when you look at all the people, and CHILDREN that are put on these mind altering drugs, I know, I know, some may be legit, but most are not, name all the alphabit names, ADD and all of them, it is sorcery.

Some of us like me have to use life saving medication drugs permanently because of life threatening medical Conditions. I had cecum bowel cancer 15 years ago. They had to remove the cecum. The cecum takes the water out food so you can have a normal stool when you go to the toilet. Now i am left with chronic diarrhea. I have to take Loperamide drug medication daily so i can have a normal stool. If i stopped taking it i would die having a horrible painful death.

Does that mean it is sorcery and i am sinning and going to hell ?
Does this mean i should stop and die a painful horrible death to get to heaven ?

People and children in third world countries who have to drink dirty water die from diarrhea because of lack of availability to life saving drug medication.
People get Parasites that will kill them and they have to take anti-Parasitical medication to kill the parasite. Are we saying the parasite has the right to live in One and kill One and taking drug medication to kill the parasite is sorcery ?

2000 thousand years ago and More Men could NOT SEE invisible BUGS and when medication drugs made them well it must have looked like some sort of magic witchcraft sourcey. Now we have Science that can SEE what is going on. It is not magic witchcraft soucery anymore because it can be seen and understood.
It makes one wonder that it could be teachings of Man and not God in some part's of the bible.

Brother Paul
Mar 23rd 2013, 12:37 AM
The most common argument within the church against any sort of use of marijuana or other drug use is the "Pharmakeia argument". Although this argument can be heard in almost any church, it is hard to recognize in a casual Bible reading. In order to come to the conclusion of the Pharmakeia argument one needs to study the original Koinne Greek Bible text. Pharmakeia is a Greek word found in the New Testament that means medication, pharmacy, magic, sorcery and witchcraft. Its root is pharmakon which refers to a druggist, pharmacist, poisoner, magician or sorcerer. God clearly states that Pharmakeia (the use of drugs) is a sin in Galatians 5:19-20; "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft" (Pharmakeia).

Most people are shocked when they learn that this verse refers to drug use. Contrary to popular belief, marijuana is not a new drug. In fact, just recently marijuana ashes were found in a fourth-century tomb. The drug was believed to have been smoked by a pregnant teenager sixteen hundred years ago. Some documentations of marijuana use date back as far as the nineteenth century B.C.

The popularity and use of marijuana has increased within the past few years. This pattern of today's intensified drug use was prophesied almost two thousand years ago in the book of Revelation. There are three passages in this book that speak directly about Pharmakeia, Revelation 9:21; 21:8; and 22:15. These three verses tell of the sinfulness of drug use, the non repenting hearts of the users, the state of the end times, the separation of drug users from the kingdom of God, and their second death by placement into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. We conclude that God is very serious about how he deals with this sin.

Marijuana is a hallucinogenic (Funk and Wagnalls 445). This is one of the reasons why using it is sorcery and witchcraft. With the use of drugs, you are opening yourself up to all sorts of spiritual attacks and seducing spirits. Mind altering drugs are used in witchcraft to alter your reality. This can be very dangerous. This is why God calls us to be sober and avoid attacks from Satan (I Peter 5:8). This implies that if we are high, we cannot avoid attacks from the evil one.

In conclusion, marijuana is not a biblical sacrament that we must take in order to become closer to God. In fact, the Bible speaks against marijuana because it is a sin. Marijuana is clearly a stronghold that Satan has used on this world for many generations. God can deliver and heal one from an addiction to marijuana. The truth can be found only through faithfully studying the word of God.

"The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8)

First off, I do not smoke Marajuana (sp), but I would like to add that sorcery or witchcraft is the use of drugs, plants, chemicals with an intent of the heart to manipulate, control, and hurt people, and that is different. Also some drugs like Cocaine (which in its natural leaf state does not seem to cause addiction) is a very valuable and medicinally useful drug that I believe God created for our use for this purpose (the purpose of killing pain). The issue for me, is all about intent. If we took these passages literally we would all be dying from fevers and other simple to cure biological conditions. The use of plants, chemicals, drugs, whatever you want to call them, for some purposes is fine (its about motive). See Deuteronomy 14:22-26 for example where God commands the people to take their tithe money to buy "strong drink" (sheker - intoxicating liquor). Was this a sin? No! And yes it comes from plants...and these are passed through a chemically altering process to make them intoxicating on purpose, but God does not condemn them and in facts commands their use in this case. Is God promoting sorcery? God forbid! Having said that however, is casual drug use and the profiteering and destruction of families, individuals, and health that we see from "the drug trade" (a centuries old practice) something of the devil and his plan to undermine godliness and the will of God? I believe so as well.

In His Love

Paul

-SEEKING-
Mar 23rd 2013, 12:42 AM
Just FYI, this thread is almost 5 years old.

Liquid Tension
Mar 23rd 2013, 12:51 AM
Well, it is almost Easter....................

Nick
Mar 23rd 2013, 01:02 AM
Good stuff. So basically no bong rips for Christians?

Nebulous
Mar 24th 2013, 03:00 AM
Sorcery is the use of drugs to accomplish one's desires.
The most dangerous drug on the market I believe is the most common and
accessible and that is WORDS! How one uses words can be like a drug.

A man can sweep a woman off her feet using the right words.
A father can destroy or encourage his children, using words.
A preacher can lead a flock to hell , just in his use of words.
A teenage boy can seduce a teenage girl, just using the right words.
The list can go on.

Is this why the Bible warns us not to lie, speak the truth to one another.

A young man confided in me, he would hang out in malls, and befriend
the loneliest teenage girls he could spot. Using words he swooned them,
buying them gifts he won their trust, over time he convinced them to
go to another city with them for the day, only to trap them in apartment
and put them to work in prostitution. Most teens today are not looking
for sex, but love in the form of: words of affirmation, a gentle touch,
gifts, quality time and acts of service, the 5 love languages.

Children are looking for love, which the parents don't know how to give.
But sorcerers today know how to take advantage simply with words and
the child is snared and most times for life.

I just wanted to share the fact that sorcery is everywhere and our kids
need to be made AWARE so they can BEWARE.

Great thread Keith. I appreciate your insights.

RJ Mac

I think you are the closest to understanding the spiritual meaning of "sorcery". Sorcery and witchcraft of the worst kind is persuasive brainwashing, which many cults use to control their followers. And the worst kind of sorcery, is to "poison" other people's minds into accepting something false as true, especially worshipping a false idol or human religious leader as God. You still find that sort of thing in India, where people are poor and have little access to a good education.

So it is not so much about drugs...that is a physical or material addiction. But in ancient times, they probably discovered some of these plants, and made use of them to convince people they were receiving some spiritual "revelation".

Ceegen
Jul 26th 2013, 12:24 AM
"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." - Matthew 15:11.

Yes, it's a sin, but certain things help ailments for people, because God allows us to suffer. While we're here, if a person has sickness and the wacky-tabacky helps them, why not? They might die anyway regardless of whatever treatment they receive for their problems, because only God truly and completely heals us. The only thing we can do is pray for these people, because it isn't the Mary-J that makes them evil, it's the fact that they want it to escape reality which can cause a person to sin. Because if they don't think smoking a plant is a sin, and they probably don't think a whole lot of other things are sins either.

But this world sucks, it's all evil and stuff; I can understand why people would want to smoke it. Not going to lie, I've tried it when I was younger, but it was after my dad passed away. I was reaching out in all the wrong places, because I was pretty lost without my dad. I think God took him away from me so I would reach out. Lucky for me, God's plans are better than mine, and I'm better off for it.

Sins as they pertain to physical things like food and other indigestible compounds, can't make you say or do evil things, just the same as a gun doesn't shoot a person of its own volition. It takes an evil person to use the gun for evil, just as it takes a person with a sickness to reach out for help. Drugs (and consequently medicine) are only part of the underlying problem, and doesn't defile a person (thank you Matthew 15:11). They're trying to fix a problem without God, and can we really blame them? Satan has a grip over this world, evident by all the evil in it.

What if a person believes and hopes and prays all the days of their life to be healed, but never are, because they live every day in agonizing pain?

"Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him." - John 9:3.

I think God would forgive a pot-smoker, easily. Drugs in general are bad, and even really really bad, but there is a difference in a real physical/chemical addiction and a mental one. You can tell the difference between people who take hard drugs and those who just occasionally smoke pot (for whatever reason, really). It would be harder for a person addicted to cocaine or heroin to stop their sinning than a pot smoker.

I've worked with both types of people and have been around drugs most of my life. Growing up in California, you saw it and their effects everywhere. Drugs don't make people evil, evil makes people evil.

BrianW
Jul 26th 2013, 12:48 AM
Charlemaigne ,

Don't dig up multiple old threads and then spam the same posts in them. It makes you look like a troll.

Thread closed.