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Liv
Jun 3rd 2008, 04:28 PM
I understand that a lot of the so-called ridiculous laws of the OT (such as "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.") were designed to set Israel apart as a nation from those around them. That's why we don't need to worry about those kinds of things today. But what about the moral law and the punishments for breaking it? Today we don't have the death penalty for homosexuality or adultery, for example. Why is it that the punishments are no longer the same when the sin is still just as serious? Does it maybe have something to do with the New Covenant under Jesus Christ?

knuckledamus
Jun 3rd 2008, 04:31 PM
The laws of the OT are not ridiculous. Without them, we would not have been able to know that we are sinners. The point of the law was to point people to Christ.

Liv
Jun 3rd 2008, 04:35 PM
The laws of the OT are not ridiculous. Without them, we would not have been able to know that we are sinners. The point of the law was to point people to Christ.

That's why I said "so-called," because a lot of people (especially non-Christians with whom you would have debates on this subject) say that some of the laws are silly. That wasn't what my question was about, though.

Buck shot
Jun 3rd 2008, 04:44 PM
I understand that a lot of the so-called ridiculous laws of the OT (such as "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.") were designed to set Israel apart as a nation from those around them. That's why we don't need to worry about those kinds of things today. But what about the moral law and the punishments for breaking it? Today we don't have the death penalty for homosexuality or adultery, for example. Why is it that the punishments are no longer the same when the sin is still just as serious? Does it maybe have something to do with the New Covenant under Jesus Christ?

FIRST-Nothing God does is ridiculous.

You are basing your views of todays laws on what is done here in the US. If you view the laws from around the world and the penalties of breaking the laws you will find that we have become very liberal on what we allow and the punishments for them. It was not that long ago when folks we put to death for stealing here in the US. Now it's just a fine, some public service, and some probation.

God's laws have never changed. We (at least the US) as a nation have chosen to not follow His law (as was our foundation) and now are starting to not even recognise Him as God.

Homosexuality and adultry were a sin in the old testament, new testament, and still are. Just as lying, stealing, and not putting God first in our lives.

We have become lax on our punishments and definitions of sin and the law. God never changes.

Liv
Jun 3rd 2008, 04:56 PM
FIRST-Nothing God does is ridiculous.

I really regret using that word because those who have replied are not reading it in context. I said "so-called" because, although I know that they're not ridiculous, a lot of non-Christians don't understand them and think that they're silly.

"so-called" means "other people think this," not "I think this."

Jesusinmyheart
Jun 3rd 2008, 05:06 PM
Today we don't have the death penalty for homosexuality or adultery, for example. Why is it that the punishments are no longer the same when the sin is still just as serious? Does it maybe have something to do with the New Covenant under Jesus Christ?

I would say what has changed this is
a) Grace and mercy and compassion as taught by Yeshua
b) a misapplication of understanding of scripture

The Law should still be in effect, but mercy and compassion is foremost.
IOW we are to put those who would understand what God desires of people i.e being Holy as He is Holy, but won't make any effort to change their ways to put them out of the congregation.

These Laws IMO not only point to Christ, but teach us how to be Chirstlike.

One the Holy Spirit leads one into understanding that truth will be written into one's heart and the Law is then written on the heart as the Heart is being circumcised.

Shalom,
Tanja

knuckledamus
Jun 3rd 2008, 05:26 PM
My point was that the law was always meant to show that we were sinners. That was the whole point of it, to show we were sinners and to point us to Christ.

Now that we have Christ and know we can not be justified by the law, we have to come to grips with the understanding that we are all sinners. This has produced great humility in the followers of Jesus, as it should have. We have to objecively look now at what law is. This has lead to the understanding that in order to have a crime, there had to be an intent. We also have come to realize that not everyone convicted is guilty, and that has lead us to exercise caution in the use of the capital punishment. The focus is changed from a revenge type justice to a justice that reflects God's natural law.

Buck shot
Jun 3rd 2008, 06:05 PM
I really regret using that word because those who have replied are not reading it in context. I said "so-called" because, although I know that they're not ridiculous, a lot of non-Christians don't understand them and think that they're silly.

"so-called" means "other people think this," not "I think this."

Thanks Liv,

One thing I've learned around here is that we have to be careful in our wording. A lot of folks read these posts and it's so easy to be misunderstood! ;)

I'm glad you don't feel that way :D

Ta-An
Jun 3rd 2008, 06:39 PM
How do you show G_d that you love Him?? :hmm:

sunnysideup
Jun 9th 2008, 03:13 AM
If the OT has been completed does that mean when trying to find the answer to a question one should disregard OT passages? It seems contradictory to me to disregard certain parts of it "like the laws about clothing and so forth" and use the stories of say David to illustrate points. I gues what I am saying how do we justify disregarding the laws given to Israel while still using the historical accounts of people in the OT to illustrate Biblical truths?

Rebelnote
Jun 10th 2008, 01:05 AM
One difference between the OT covenant and the NT covenant is now we have the gift of the Holy Spirit to help us discerne from right and wrong. Also, Jesus established a guide to the law by pointing out the greatest of commandments.

Matthew 22:36-40


"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If what we do contributes to these two commandments than they are within God's covenant, if what we do contradicts with these commandments, than they are outside of the covenant.

diffangle
Jun 10th 2008, 02:40 AM
(such as "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.")

Just a fyi, the Scriptures say specifically linen and wool mixture, it doesn't mention any other mix. :)

Zack702
Jun 10th 2008, 02:45 AM
If the OT has been completed does that mean when trying to find the answer to a question one should disregard OT passages? It seems contradictory to me to disregard certain parts of it "like the laws about clothing and so forth" and use the stories of say David to illustrate points. I gues what I am saying how do we justify disregarding the laws given to Israel while still using the historical accounts of people in the OT to illustrate Biblical truths?

I consider you must understand the difference between greater laws and lesser laws. You must understand the reason they were being brought out of Egypt. You also must try to think about why Moses used each law.

I personally think it is a mistake to say that the laws of Moses were meant for anyone but the children of Jacob (or the twelve tribes of Israel).
They were told to adopt these laws and kill the ones who did not obey them. If you ask me this was a set of laws and a battle plan rolled into one. But it did not work and the people became slack and it all fell apart. And fell into corruption and then Jesus was born. And Jesus and his disciples illustrated the truths and by parables and actions showed us the good laws which had a new design. (mainly the ten commandments)

But in no way does this take away from Old Testament truths in my mind. The stories in Old testament make up most of the bible. And there is many great words and a great record of Israel's history found in it. I never really focused on the fact that it was old or new because when I started I read it from the beginning. If you ask me the Old Testament explains a lot of the New Testament and vice versa.

FollowTheBanner
Jun 11th 2008, 05:48 PM
"Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?" 2 Corinthians 3:7-8 (ESV).

The Old Covenant was under the ministry of death. The New Covenant is under the ministry of the Holy Spirit.