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Buzzword
Jun 14th 2008, 11:47 PM
This has been on my mind the last few days.

I grew up with daily devotionals with my parents, encouraged to study the Bible for myself, learning memory verses at church....then for the three years I attended a Christian college, more delving into Scripture, this time into context and methods of interpretation....

I think as a result of all that, and spending time witnessing to people who don't recognize the Bible as a source of knowledge, I've become "turned off" to the Bible.

It's not that I don't still enjoy reading it or studying it with a group or discussing how it came to be, etc etc.

I just think that it shouldn't be the only thing we can cite when stating our individual positions on issues, whether within the body of believers or without, whether on Christian doctrines or on politics.

I mean, I shouldn't have to justify my opinion on whether or someone should vote for Barack Obama, or if schools should have uniforms, or if the color of the carpet at my church should be blue, with a Bible verse.....they're called OPINIONS for a reason.


I was taught by my theology professors to use MORE than just scripture in discerning truth, and I have had much experience in doing so.

th1bill
Jun 15th 2008, 12:03 AM
Alan, it was interesting to read your testimony but it left me in a quandary. You never mentioned a conversion experience and without knowing the state of your soul it is impossible for me to give you an intelligent answer without knowing your spiritual condition.

Buzzword
Jun 15th 2008, 12:04 AM
Alan, it was interesting to read your testimony but it left me in a quandary. You never mentioned a conversion experience and without knowing the state of your soul it is impossible for me to give you an intelligent answer without knowing your spiritual condition.

Alan? .....?


Wrong thread?

Zack702
Jun 15th 2008, 12:28 AM
If God made everything then there are answers in everything.

And to me there is no doubt that the Holy Bible is unique. A history of a bloodline from the beginning of time inspired by God. But it does not say how great they were and it does not show how perfect they were. It shows how they did good and then turned to evil over and over. And each time the prophet would come and set them straight with words of wisdom. Except they would not believe on the prophet unless they showed them miracles.

IamBill
Jun 15th 2008, 12:30 AM
This has been on my mind the last few days.

I grew up with daily devotionals with my parents, encouraged to study the Bible for myself, learning memory verses at church....then for the three years I attended a Christian college, more delving into Scripture, this time into context and methods of interpretation....

I think as a result of all that, and spending time witnessing to people who don't recognize the Bible as a source of knowledge, I've become "turned off" to the Bible.

It's not that I don't still enjoy reading it or studying it with a group or discussing how it came to be, etc etc.

I just think that it shouldn't be the only thing we can cite when stating our individual positions on issues, whether within the body of believers or without, whether on Christian doctrines or on politics.

I mean, I shouldn't have to justify my opinion on whether or someone should vote for Barack Obama, or if schools should have uniforms, or if the color of the carpet at my church should be blue, with a Bible verse.....they're called OPINIONS for a reason.


I was taught by my theology professors to use MORE than just scripture in discerning truth, and I have had much experience in doing so.

While my hunger for the word grows each day. I totally see and understand your point. Though i - AM NOT - that old :lol: ;) - my life experiences, trials and errors are vast and very useful. Often More useful in teaching than repeating scriptures to people who have heard them a 1000 times and still don't understand or care to hear. I believe it is because scripture becomes embedded within us and shines though our attitude.

FollowTheBanner
Jun 15th 2008, 12:41 AM
Yes, let's use more than just scripture, but it is it my opinion that God gave us the Bible as a roadmap for everything we do. ;)

cross crusader
Jun 15th 2008, 02:15 AM
I was taught by my theology professors to use MORE than just scripture in discerning truth, and I have had much experience in doing so.

Spoken like a true theology professor. The only thing that can discern truth is the word. Nothing else. Sounds like you are treading down a slippery slope. I am a firm believer that any question i have, there is an answer in the Bible for it or else GOd would not have given me the word. But just a feeling i get, there is more here than what is being let on. there is an underlying problem that you might need to address

th1bill
Jun 15th 2008, 04:52 AM
Alan? .....?


Wrong thread?
No, just the wrong name and for that I am sorry. But until you're spiritual condition is revealed I cannot give you an intelligent answer to your question. Have you ever been Born Again?

Buzzword
Jun 15th 2008, 02:54 PM
No, just the wrong name and for that I am sorry. But until you're spiritual condition is revealed I cannot give you an intelligent answer to your question. Have you ever been Born Again?

I first answered God's call during a revival at my church when I was twelve.

Since then, it's been a series of plateaus and canyons.
Plateaus from learning, studying, and discussing with my peers, from witnessing to those who have felt rejected by the Christian community, and from reading the works of several theologians who have edified my faith.

Canyons from self-doubt.



Spoken like a true theology professor. The only thing that can discern truth is the word. Nothing else. Sounds like you are treading down a slippery slope. I am a firm believer that any question i have, there is an answer in the Bible for it or else GOd would not have given me the word. But just a feeling i get, there is more here than what is being let on. there is an underlying problem that you might need to address

Allow me to explain my statement.

My professor (an active minister and missionary to South Africa for twelve years) taught that there are four interconnected concepts that are used to discern truth when confronted with an idea:

1.Scripture
2.Experience
3.Tradition
4.Reason

1) Does this idea match what God has shown me through the Bible?

2) Does my life experience match what I'm being told?

3) Has someone else already analyzed this idea, and written about it? (standing on the shoulders of spiritual giants)

4) Does this idea make logical sense?


Each of these can be applied to the other.
I.E.
Does this traditional church practice match with scripture?
Does this interpretation of scripture make logical sense?
Is my logic flawed at the moment because I've had a recent traumatic life experience?
et al.

ilovemetal
Jun 15th 2008, 04:13 PM
i think i know what your saying. and i can say for me, i'd be no where with out such books as 'mere christianity', or 'in the biggining was information.' my point is, yes, the bible is the truth, and i take it for nothing less, but hearing things like what cs lewis talks about, put's things into perspective, if you will. makes understanding what the bible is getting at.

and things like information theory is the study of Gods work. i guess. i find people just write the bible off, so it's good to have other books that solidify it's words.

or stuff......

Brother Mark
Jun 15th 2008, 04:18 PM
The best way to reach the lost, bar none, is to hear what God has to say then say it. Jesus knew the woman at the well was thirsty for something more so he spoke to exactly what her need was. Jesus said "I only say what the Father tells me to say". The single biggest missing piece in evangelism today is listening to God. Too often we have a formula, or a logical argument, or a prepared scripture. Instead, we should hear the Lord. He knows the heart of the one we are speaking to. He can give us words that will divide the soul and spirit. He can give us words that will pierce them to the heart.

The secret to witnessing isn't knowing logic or knowing the bible or being a persuasive speaker. The secret to powerful witnessing is hearing God and saying what he says.

9Marksfan
Jun 15th 2008, 04:47 PM
The best way to reach the lost, bar none, is to hear what God has to say then say it. Jesus knew the woman at the well was thirsty for something more so he spoke to exactly what her need was. Jesus said "I only say what the Father tells me to say". The single biggest missing piece in evangelism today is listening to God. Too often we have a formula, or a logical argument, or a prepared scripture. Instead, we should hear the Lord. He knows the heart of the one we are speaking to. He can give us words that will divide the soul and spirit. He can give us words that will pierce them to the heart.

The secret to witnessing isn't knowing logic or knowing the bible or being a persuasive speaker. The secret to powerful witnessing is hearing God and saying what he says.

And will God reveal truth about being right with Himself beyond the Scriptures?

Brother Mark
Jun 15th 2008, 04:50 PM
And will God reveal truth about being right with Himself beyond the Scriptures?

He does use extrabiblical sources to witness about himself. That's what nature does.

But still, hearing God speak to a situation is the single biggest thing that most folks overlook. He will speak if we will give him our spiritual ear. His words have power. Sometimes he will reveal the heart of the person you are witnessing to. Sometimes he gives just the right word to say. I have had God actually tell me to wait and then speak to me and say "OK, say it now".

Edit: Also, God may speak things to us about a person that are not in scriptures. God, knowing the heart of the individual, can give us just the words to say that the individual needs to hear.

9Marksfan
Jun 15th 2008, 04:55 PM
I first answered God's call during a revival at my church when I was twelve.

Since then, it's been a series of plateaus and canyons.
Plateaus from learning, studying, and discussing with my peers, from witnessing to those who have felt rejected by the Christian community, and from reading the works of several theologians who have edified my faith.

Canyons from self-doubt.




Allow me to explain my statement.

My professor (an active minister and missionary to South Africa for twelve years) taught that there are four interconnected concepts that are used to discern truth when confronted with an idea:

1.Scripture
2.Experience
3.Tradition
4.Reason

1) Does this idea match what God has shown me through the Bible?

2) Does my life experience match what I'm being told?

3) Has someone else already analyzed this idea, and written about it? (standing on the shoulders of spiritual giants)

4) Does this idea make logical sense?


Each of these can be applied to the other.
I.E.
Does this traditional church practice match with scripture?
Does this interpretation of scripture make logical sense?
Is my logic flawed at the moment because I've had a recent traumatic life experience?
et al.

Clearly your college professor didn't believe in the authority and sufficiency of Scripture - it is NOT subject to experience (not absolute), tradition (originates in man) and logic (often flawed). Scripture itself testifies to its authority and sufficiency:-

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. 2 Tim 3:16-17 ESV

That is objective truth. But I'm happy to be subjective too. I have been a Christian now for 26 years and the thing I have always come back to after periods of doubt and backsliding, of being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, has been the authority and sufficiency of the word of God - without that, we have NO anchor for the soul - some may say "but CHRIST is all you need!" But I say - which Christ? There are many false Christs - in particular the ones of our own imagination - the only One I can trust is the Christ of the Scriptures.....

Do you accept that ALL Scripture is God-breathed? That is the CRUCIAL question - EVERYTHING else hangs upon that.

As a friend of mind paraphrases an old divine, if we stop believing the truth, we won't believe nothing - we'll believe anything.....

fewarechosen
Jun 15th 2008, 05:10 PM
I first answered God's call during a revival at my church when I was twelve.

Since then, it's been a series of plateaus and canyons.
Plateaus from learning, studying, and discussing with my peers, from witnessing to those who have felt rejected by the Christian community, and from reading the works of several theologians who have edified my faith.

Canyons from self-doubt.




Allow me to explain my statement.

My professor (an active minister and missionary to South Africa for twelve years) taught that there are four interconnected concepts that are used to discern truth when confronted with an idea:

1.Scripture
2.Experience
3.Tradition
4.Reason

1) Does this idea match what God has shown me through the Bible?

2) Does my life experience match what I'm being told?

3) Has someone else already analyzed this idea, and written about it? (standing on the shoulders of spiritual giants)

4) Does this idea make logical sense?


Each of these can be applied to the other.
I.E.
Does this traditional church practice match with scripture?
Does this interpretation of scripture make logical sense?
Is my logic flawed at the moment because I've had a recent traumatic life experience?
et al.


the thing i find most interesting -- is he left out holy spirit and that is what we really need

Buzzword
Jun 15th 2008, 05:21 PM
The best way to reach the lost, bar none, is to hear what God has to say then say it. Jesus knew the woman at the well was thirsty for something more so he spoke to exactly what her need was. Jesus said "I only say what the Father tells me to say". The single biggest missing piece in evangelism today is listening to God. Too often we have a formula, or a logical argument, or a prepared scripture. Instead, we should hear the Lord. He knows the heart of the one we are speaking to. He can give us words that will divide the soul and spirit. He can give us words that will pierce them to the heart.

The secret to witnessing isn't knowing logic or knowing the bible or being a persuasive speaker. The secret to powerful witnessing is hearing God and saying what he says.

AMEN!


Clearly your college professor didn't believe in the authority and sufficiency of Scripture - it is NOT subject to experience (not absolute), tradition (originates in man) and logic (often flawed). Scripture itself testifies to its authority and sufficiency:-

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. 2 Tim 3:16-17 ESV

That is objective truth. But I'm happy to be subjective too. I have been a Christian now for 26 years and the thing I have always come back to after periods of doubt and backsliding, of being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, has been the authority and sufficiency of the word of God - without that, we have NO anchor for the soul - some may say "but CHRIST is all you need!" But I say - which Christ? There are many false Christs - in particular the ones of our own imagination - the only One I can trust is the Christ of the Scriptures.....

Do you accept that ALL Scripture is God-breathed? That is the CRUCIAL question - EVERYTHING else hangs upon that.

As a friend of mind paraphrases an old divine, if we stop believing the truth, we won't believe nothing - we'll believe anything.....

Which is more crucial?
Believing in the hammer than nailed together the boards you're standing on, or believing in the Carpenter who USED the hammer to make the boards your standing on?


You left out one other potential danger:
That being a reliance on your own SUBJECTIVE interpretation of scripture.

None of us can simply "read what it says," not the Bible, not anything.
We all bring assumptions and cultural background and social context into our individual reading of ANYTHING.

If your Christian experience and the God you worship is limited to the pages of one BOOK, then the BOOK is your god.

cross crusader
Jun 15th 2008, 09:00 PM
AMEN!



Which is more crucial?
Believing in the hammer than nailed together the boards you're standing on, or believing in the Carpenter who USED the hammer to make the boards your standing on?


You left out one other potential danger:
That being a reliance on your own SUBJECTIVE interpretation of scripture.

None of us can simply "read what it says," not the Bible, not anything.
We all bring assumptions and cultural background and social context into our individual reading of ANYTHING.

If your Christian experience and the God you worship is limited to the pages of one BOOK, then the BOOK is your god.

the christian "experience" should be limited to one book. but the one book is the bible, the only place for answers. now when witnessing or ministering i agree there are other ways that God will work through me. But in ref to your original post, the Bible, with the leading of the spirit is the only way to discern truth. Because as the Bible tells us in John, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. then the word became flesh. and i take the bible at its word, literally, if the Bible says i can do something, then i can do it, if it tells me things that are bad to do, i dont do them. people often spend way too much time over analyzing things and often stretch things way beyond what the mean to fit a certain situation they are facing i will give you that. but the bible was written so that we can take it literally and at its deeper meaning. it was written for all levels of spiritual understanding

9Marksfan
Jun 15th 2008, 09:25 PM
He does use extrabiblical sources to witness about himself. That's what nature does.

But that's general revelation - that's why I asked specifically about revelation regarding getting right with Himself - that requires special revelation and that only comes from Scripture.


But still, hearing God speak to a situation is the single biggest thing that most folks overlook. He will speak if we will give him our spiritual ear. His words have power. Sometimes he will reveal the heart of the person you are witnessing to. Sometimes he gives just the right word to say. I have had God actually tell me to wait and then speak to me and say "OK, say it now".

You are talking about a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge. I am talking about God's revelation of Himself - do you think He does that beyond the Scriptures?


Edit: Also, God may speak things to us about a person that are not in scriptures. God, knowing the heart of the individual, can give us just the words to say that the individual needs to hear.

Again, word of knowledge/wisdom.

Athanasius
Jun 15th 2008, 09:25 PM
I just think that it shouldn't be the only thing we can cite when stating our individual positions on issues, whether within the body of believers or without, whether on Christian doctrines or on politics.

No, but it must be the basis for our position on issues. Paul may have quoted the Greek philosophers in Acts 17, but he did so by tying it back to scripture. By the way, the Epicureans and Stoics did not view scripture as authentic or reliable.

So... When people say we shouldn't use scripture when discussing with non-Christians, I have to tend to disagree.



I mean, I shouldn't have to justify my opinion on whether or someone should vote for Barack Obama, or if schools should have uniforms, or if the color of the carpet at my church should be blue, with a Bible verse.....they're called OPINIONS for a reason.

Sure, but based in scripture ultimately ;)



I was taught by my theology professors to use MORE than just scripture in discerning truth, and I have had much experience in doing so.

Oh? And what other methods are there?

9Marksfan
Jun 15th 2008, 09:29 PM
Which is more crucial?
Believing in the hammer than nailed together the boards you're standing on, or believing in the Carpenter who USED the hammer to make the boards your standing on?

The Carpenter has told us to rely on the hammer and nails He made - I'm happy to trust Him.


You left out one other potential danger:
That being a reliance on your own SUBJECTIVE interpretation of scripture.

No, I forgot to mention the Holy Spirit - who leads us into all truth - in SCRIPTURE - do you deny that He is capable of doing this?!?


None of us can simply "read what it says," not the Bible, not anything.
We all bring assumptions and cultural background and social context into our individual reading of ANYTHING.

So are you saying that the Holy Spirit is restricted in communicating the truth of the word because of these things?


If your Christian experience and the God you worship is limited to the pages of one BOOK, then the BOOK is your god.

No - it is the sword of the Spirit - and the Spirit is God.

Brother Mark
Jun 15th 2008, 11:56 PM
But that's general revelation - that's why I asked specifically about revelation regarding getting right with Himself - that requires special revelation and that only comes from Scripture.

I don't think it only comes from scripture Nigel. I have too many friends that got saved without scripture. I have one in particular that got saved from a vision. He didn't even know who Jesus was.


You are talking about a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge. I am talking about God's revelation of Himself - do you think He does that beyond the Scriptures?I think he uses both together. Jesus didn't just quote verses to the woman at the well. Let me ask you a question in response to your question. Did God give Paul revelation beyond what he was allowed to write? Then, to some, he did give revelation of himself beyond scripture. ;) Thought certainly, I am not saying we should trust anything outside of scripture that doesn't line up with scripture.


Again, word of knowledge/wisdom.And a necessary thing for all kinds of ministry. Look at our example Christ. He didn't just quote scriptures when he was ministering. He listened to what God said then repeated it.

moonglow
Jun 16th 2008, 12:21 AM
I don't think it only comes from scripture Nigel. I have too many friends that got saved without scripture. I have one in particular that got saved from a vision. He didn't even know who Jesus was.

I think he uses both together. Jesus didn't just quote verses to the woman at the well. Let me ask you a question in response to your question. Did God give Paul revelation beyond what he was allowed to write? Then, to some, he did give revelation of himself beyond scripture. ;) Thought certainly, I am not saying we should trust anything outside of scripture that doesn't line up with scripture.

And a necessary thing for all kinds of ministry. Look at our example Christ. He didn't just quote scriptures when he was ministering. He listened to what God said then repeated it.

Great examples there!

When I am witnessing to nonbelievers/septics, I usually don't quote much from the bible...they don't want to hear it...to them I am using the bible to prove the bible and that makes no sense to them so I gives them example like what you mentioned Brother Mark...I like using the example of the American Indians being saved through a vision of God. Some of these tribes knew who God was long before the white men came with their bibles...long before there were churches...they didn't even use the word God, but used what they saw in their vision which was the Great White Spirit. Which is exactly what God is...a spirit, great, and white for purity. Their set of morals were very similar to what is in our bibles.

Its an amazing thing to see real life examples of God reaching those when people were unable to reach them through regular witnessing methods. People were being saved long before the bible was ever in print...and people are being saved in countries and villages and jungles now that have never seen a bible...wouldn't know what one is in fact. I think too many times we only see the small part of our world and forget God is dealing with the whole world...many places where people are too isolated to be reached. They aren't forgotten and just left to die in their sins. The bible tells us God puts the knowledge of Him in all of us and its true! So I give people evidence of that and other things that prove the bible is trusted and true...that God is alive and real.

On the first original post...why would you want to site scripture to pick out the color of carpet going in a church? I didn't understand some of what Buzz was talking about...I think just having an opinion on things is good!....I also agree sometimes we need a break from reading the bible so we don't become dull with it or start taking it for granted.

God bless

SIG
Jun 16th 2008, 12:23 AM
Quote: "Look at our example Christ. He didn't just quote scriptures when he was ministering. He listened to what God said then repeated it."

Does anyone but me see the humor in this?

Why funny? Because in some places, Christ quoted Scripture. In places where He didn't, what He said BECAME Scripture (!)...

After all, He is the Logos, and the Author of Scripture.

Which tells me what? Am I qualified to hear from the Father and create Scripture? May it never be! It is sufficient for me to quote (always dividing correctly and applying correctly, of course) what is already written.

Which tells me what? What has already been written is sufficient for every situation.

And--I don't worship the Book. I worship the Author and therefore believe the Book.

VerticalReality
Jun 16th 2008, 12:43 AM
Quote: "Look at our example Christ. He didn't just quote scriptures when he was ministering. He listened to what God said then repeated it."

Does anyone but me see the humor in this?

Why funny? Because in some places, Christ quoted Scripture. In places where He didn't, what He said BECAME Scripture (!)...

After all, He is the Logos, and the Author of Scripture.

Which tells me what? Am I qualified to hear from the Father and create Scripture? May it never be! It is sufficient for me to quote (always dividing correctly and applying correctly, of course) what is already written.

Which tells me what? What has already been written is sufficient for every situation.

And--I don't worship the Book. I worship the Author and therefore believe the Book.

So, I would give you the same question that I have given others . . .

Let us say, for instance, that you pastor a church in your local area. Let us then say that another church in the next town over approaches you about taking over as pastor of their congregation. What do you do? What Scriptures are you going to turn to in order to find out whether or not it is God's will for you to end your current office of pastor and take over as pastor of another flock?

Can you give me the specific Scriptures you would reference here that would show you beyond any doubt that it is God's will to either 1) end your duties as pastor of the current flock and take over the duties of another flock, or . . . 2) turn down the offer from the other church and remain as pastor of the current flock? What Scriptures can you provide here that would show God's specific will for your situation?

Certainly you aren't going to make a decision without consulting and hearing from the Lord on such an issue, right?

Brother Mark
Jun 16th 2008, 12:46 AM
Quote: "Look at our example Christ. He didn't just quote scriptures when he was ministering. He listened to what God said then repeated it."

Does anyone but me see the humor in this?

Why funny? Because in some places, Christ quoted Scripture. In places where He didn't, what He said BECAME Scripture (!)...

After all, He is the Logos, and the Author of Scripture.

Which tells me what? Am I qualified to hear from the Father and create Scripture? May it never be! It is sufficient for me to quote (always dividing correctly and applying correctly, of course) what is already written.

Which tells me what? What has already been written is sufficient for every situation.

And--I don't worship the Book. I worship the Author and therefore believe the Book.

Except that all of what Jesus did, did not become scripture.

John 21:25

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books which were written.
NASB

How are we to know Jesus' will in all things? Scripture doesn't name all things. God can speak to us outside of scripture and in great detail. I am not saying we create scripture. What I am saying is that if we only think God speaks through the scripture, we will miss him in many ways. God speaks to me, as an individual using scripture and using his voice directly.

I've had God tell me to "I want you to move to Macon" and yet, there is no scripture to suggest that at all! Nothing in there. But God spoke it. When we listen to God in our witnessing, we can speak his words directly to someone and it will have power. Sometimes, he simply tells us what verse to use. There are many things God has done and said that are not recorded in scripture. That doesn't diminish the word at all! It is still our standard. But we are able to hear God about things not written in the word.

SIG
Jun 16th 2008, 01:10 AM
I was afraid I might be misunderstood :D...

Certainly the Holy Spirit speaks into our lives and directs us. But what He speaks will never be contrary to Scripture.

As for moving to Macon--I'm sure nothing in Scripture would prohibit it :D. Discerning that it is truly God's voice and obeying would surely harmonize with Scripture.

But Scripture, being God's voice, is our foundation.

As for what Jesus did that was not written--it was done on a "need-to-know" basis--and we just didn't need to know...

Brother Mark
Jun 16th 2008, 01:16 AM
I was afraid I might be misunderstood :D...

Certainly the Holy Spirit speaks into our lives and directs us. But what He speaks will never be contrary to Scripture.

Correct!


As for moving to Macon--I'm sure nothing in Scripture would prohibit it :D. Nor commands it! And while it may seem a light thing, it really isn't. If one can't hear God in their day to day life, they are greatly limited. If one only allows God to speak through scripture, one is really limited in his walk with the Lord.


Discerning that it is truly God's voice and obeying would surely harmonize with Scripture.Yes it should! But scripture is silent on many things. For instance, we see that God spoke to some in scripture about who they should marry. We can't get in the scripture and find the person we are to marry. For that, we need to hear God.


But Scripture, being God's voice, is our foundation.Indeed it is! It is also where we learn to recognize his voice.


As for what Jesus did that was not written--it was done on a "need-to-know" basis--and we just didn't need to know...I agree. But the point was that many things God spoke are not in his word. And many things he speaks today are not in his word. All his sheep have ears to hear. We each need to hear the rameh or spoken word of God.

VerticalReality
Jun 16th 2008, 01:55 AM
As for moving to Macon--I'm sure nothing in Scripture would prohibit it :D.

Good thing Paul didn't believe the same thing when the Holy Spirit instructed him not to preach the gospel in Asia Minor. On the surface many folks using the train of thought you are giving here would say that going and preaching the gospel anywhere would be God's will and something He would undoubtedly want us to do. However, the Scriptures reveal to us that preaching the gospel everywhere was not His will in this particular instance, and had Paul not been in tune with the specific direction of God at this particular time he would have been out of God's will. God's will on this particular occasion was not something Paul could refer to the Scriptures to receive.

I believe you demonstrate with your response why the American religious institution called "church" is so largely ineffective today. It very well may not be God's will for you to go to Macon regardless of whether or not there is a specific Scripture declaring this to be the case. I wonder what the consequences for such an action would be? I wonder if many would even recognize the consequences for such a decision of the flesh or if it would just be "business as usual".

a sojourner
Jun 16th 2008, 02:12 AM
Except that all of what Jesus did, did not become scripture.

John 21:25

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books which were written.
NASB

Candidly, I think that this discussion is somewhat petty and nit-picky. Lot's of people trying to polarize what the others say, finding dangerous extremes in pretty basic questions and opinions.

However, I had to chime in here, because this was a fantastic response. Carry on.

Buzzword
Jun 16th 2008, 02:19 AM
Candidly, I think that this discussion is somewhat petty and nit-picky. Lot's of people trying to polarize what the others say, finding dangerous extremes in pretty basic questions and opinions.

However, I had to chime in here, because this was a fantastic response. Carry on.

That seems to be the norm in many of the threads on this forum, though with many exceptions.

Teke
Jun 16th 2008, 02:46 PM
But that's general revelation - that's why I asked specifically about revelation regarding getting right with Himself - that requires special revelation and that only comes from Scripture.



You are talking about a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge. I am talking about God's revelation of Himself - do you think He does that beyond the Scriptures?


God has revealed Himself to us by the Incarnation, that which is beyond written words. If words of wisdom or knowledge come from THE Revelation of Jesus Christ, they are given by the Holy Spirit/Comforter, which Jesus promised.

This is obvious in patristic writings and those of the desert fathers.

KingFisher
Jun 18th 2008, 02:01 AM
My professor (an active minister and missionary to South Africa for twelve years) taught that there are four interconnected concepts that are used to discern truth when confronted with an idea:

1.Scripture
2.Experience
3.Tradition
4.Reason


Hi Buzzword,

Hey where's the Holy Spirit in that list?

I don't have much time this evening but I'd like to give some
encouragement.

All of the above are usefull for a Christian. Although, experience, tradition
and reason are just shadows of truth.

Those three can be influenced by sin. This sin shrouds these bringing the
focus away from truth. Sins like selfishness, greed, lust..etc.

The Holy Spirit through scripture cast light into these shadows.
Lighting our paths that we can see.

Remember the armor that protects the Christian warrior begins with the
belt of truth.

Truth holds it all together.

Don't wear the belt you've been given and...
Well you'll trip when your knickers fall down. ;)

Hope this helps,
KingFisher