PDA

View Full Version : Blashphemy against the Holy Spirit.



theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 02:45 PM
Let us reason together.

What is this sin that hath not forgivness?

The Spirit has revealed to me that this is the sin of the backslider. The ones who turn their back on the plow.

God is a Living God, and so I don't just see this as the traditional form of blasphemy, some sort of cussword or bad speech against the Spirit.

What does this mean to you?

Edit: Slug1 and fewarechosen and soldier4christ by their posts have led me to add an edit. The act of not repenting against the sin of backsliding is the sin against the Holy Spirit. I should have stated the act of staying in the backslide thus denying the Holy Ghost is the sin. Also the act of denying the Holy Spirit that dwells in others.

Thank you all for expanding my understanding of this scripture as God has led you to do.

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 02:53 PM
Let us reason together.

What is this sin that hath not forgivness?

The Spirit has revealed to me that this is the sin of the backslider. The ones who turn their back on the plow.

God is a Living God, and so I don't just see this as the traditional form of blasphemy, some sort of cussword or bad speech against the Spirit.

What does this mean to you?Does your "revelation" have Biblical backing? If so, which verses?

I agree that bad speech or a cussword is not blasphemy nor is backsliding cause how can we put a value on "backsliding". Peter denied Christ 3 times and IMO is a serious backslide and many Christians for whatever reason value this as blasphemy...yet Jesus came to him and brought him back... so that shoots your revelation out of the water IMHO since Peter was not only forgiven but restored.

The Bible is very specific what blasphemy is and anything that says otherwise and can't be supported with scripture is not truth.

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 03:00 PM
Ah but Peter didn't have the Holy Spirit when he denied Christ 3 times. Peter didn't receive the Comforter until AFTER Christ was risen.

Here is the scripture you requested.

24When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

25And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 03:03 PM
Does your "revelation" have Biblical backing? If so, which verses?

I agree that bad speech or a cussword is not blasphemy nor is backsliding cause how can we put a value on "backsliding". Peter denied Christ 3 times and IMO is a serious backslide and many Christians for whatever reason value this as blasphemy...yet Jesus came to him and brought him back... so that shoots your revelation out of the water IMHO since Peter was not only forgiven but restored.

The Bible is very specific what blasphemy is and anything that says otherwise and can't be supported with scripture is not truth.

peter did not have the holy spirit at that time,

also i am curious as to what your defintion of blashpeme is in this case.

scripture says all manner of blaspheme against christ will be forgiven but not against holy ghost.

so im curious to see what you think the difference is

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 03:36 PM
Ah but Peter didn't have the Holy Spirit when he denied Christ 3 times. Peter didn't receive the Comforter until AFTER Christ was risen.

Spirit of the letter, not Spirit of the Word (meaning). The situation with Peter shows us that we can be redeemed and restored, thus forgiven if we backslide. Everyone backslides in one form or another during their relationship with Christ. I do it every day when I'm talking to a person or saying Hi to someone in the store and don't ask them if they have Christ in their life or say a simple, "God Bless you" as I walk by a stranger. Like I said, what is the "value" of backsliding? Am I denying Christ if I NEVER proclaim to others I serve God or attempt to share even the smallest drop of the Gospel on others I meet? IMO closet Christian's are practicing a backsliding relationship as God has commissioned us all to spread the Gospel and not hoard it to ourselves. I'm guilty of this at times and I'm beginning to come out of the "Christian" closet over the past few years. Now I speak about God to everyone.

OK, off my rant :lol:




Here is the scripture you requested.

24When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

25And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.Interesting. On 29 Jul 07 this scripture was placed on my spirit for my niece. At the time she was seeking God and came to me and my wife cause of our relationship with God, she felt that we'd be able to answer her questions. She began to read the Bible more after we gave her a new one and her questions became more involved about a relationship with Christ... beyond her "I believe" in God but don't serve Him religious upbringing. God showed me what would happen to her if she began a relationship but continued to not have a "faithful" relationship and only maintained a "religious" relationship. That scripture was what I was led to and also given how to explain the scripture to her. She had no concept of spiritual warfare and that scripture wouldn't have much meaning if she just read it. I explained how from her past this scripture explained her addictions and hurts over the years...

Anyway, she suffered from exactly what that scripture explains and it almost cost her, her life. Now she's clean and even though her walk with Christ is slow going... it's going as she fills herself with God as He cleans her spiritually and she fills those clean spots with Christ activities, study, fellowship, church attendance (this is a big one we're working on) etc.

In all honesty I don't see how the scripture has anything to do with blasphemy :hmm:

She is being restored, slowly... but is being restored.

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 03:48 PM
backsliding is not the unforgivable part

its backsliding then not repenting

that is putting the plow down and the unforgivable sin

when we dont have the spirit we are blaspheming christ and not the holy spirit --thats why its forgivable
but once we get the holy spirit and do not repent our blaspheme --that is how we can be worse off than the first

peter denied christ at the time --but then went on to speak strongly of him and eventually resisted unto blood

so he repented , he didnt stay denying him that would have cost him greatly -- that is what repentence is all about

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 03:49 PM
peter did not have the holy spirit at that time,

also i am curious as to what your defintion of blashpeme is in this case.

scripture says all manner of blaspheme against christ will be forgiven but not against holy ghost.

so im curious to see what you think the difference isIf a person see the Holy Spirit in action, such as seeing a person pray over another person with cancer for example... and is healed... then a person was to say this healing is of the devil and not believe it's of God, has committed blasphemy. Discernment is always needed cause satan can and does imitate miracles and revelations to mislead us. The example in scripture (Matthew 12:22-37) is of Jesus delivering a man of a demon and the Pharisees associated this miracle with the devil (beelzebub) showing us what blasphemy is.

That is why denying Christ or saying He isn't real, is not blasphemy... nor is backsliding as was revealed to the OP. That is why I asked for scripture to back it up and IMO doesn't back it up.

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 03:53 PM
backsliding is not the unforgivable part

its backsliding then not repenting

that is putting the plow down and the unforgivable sin

when we dont have the spirit we are blaspheming christ and not the holy spirit --thats why its forgivable
but once we get the holy spirit and do not repent our blaspheme --that is how we can be worse off than the first

peter denied christ at the time --but then went on to speak strongly of him and eventually resisted unto blood

so he repented , he didnt stay denying him that would have cost him greatly -- that is what repentence is all aboutWe're gonna turn this into a OSAS vs. NOSAS debate... I'm NOSAS so I agree. I don't agree that backsliding is unforgivable. I do agree that if a backsliden person NEVER repents even though they once had a relationship with Jesus... will remain unforgiven since they never repented and regained their relationship with God.

Blasphemy and being unrepentant are two separate sins, one is not forgivable the other is.

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 03:58 PM
Then I'm curious how the story of the house being cleaned, and then the evil spirit returning with even worse demons understood by you?

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 03:58 PM
We're gonna turn this into a OSAS vs. NOSAS debate... I'm NOSAS so I agree. I don't agree that backsliding is unforgivable. I do agree that if a backsliden person NEVER repents even though they once had a relationship with Jesus... will remain unforgiven since they never repented and regained their relationship with God.


oh ok then i think we are on the same page, perhaps we just had wording difficulties.

Christiana
Jun 16th 2008, 04:13 PM
backsliding is not the unforgivable part

its backsliding then not repenting

that is putting the plow down and the unforgivable sin

when we dont have the spirit we are blaspheming christ and not the holy spirit --thats why its forgivable
but once we get the holy spirit and do not repent our blaspheme --that is how we can be worse off than the first

peter denied christ at the time --but then went on to speak strongly of him and eventually resisted unto blood

so he repented , he didnt stay denying him that would have cost him greatly -- that is what repentence is all about

I agree mostly if not in full.:)

I believe that a person Denies the Holy Spirit when they refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit's instruction.

For instance, if you don't allow yourself to "feel" empathy towards those you hurt or when the Holy Spirit convicts you of something & you refuse to cave.....indefinitely. Not about stumbling but deliberately leading a blasphemous life yet claiming you love God. Deliberately rejecting His instruction when knowing full well the instructions God has placed for His followers.

Love in Christ.

Christiana
Jun 16th 2008, 04:15 PM
We're gonna turn this into a OSAS vs. NOSAS debate... I'm NOSAS so I agree. I don't agree that backsliding is unforgivable. I do agree that if a backsliden person NEVER repents even though they once had a relationship with Jesus... will remain unforgiven since they never repented and regained their relationship with God.

Blasphemy and being unrepentant are two separate sins, one is not forgivable the other is.

What is OSAS vs. NOSAS? I'm clueless....

Thank you.:)

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 04:18 PM
What is OSAS vs. NOSAS? I'm clueless....

Thank you.:)

OSAS=once saved always saved

NOSAS=not once saved always saved

I don't want this to turn into a debate on that but in a way I suppose it kinda is.

SoldierOfChrist
Jun 16th 2008, 04:19 PM
Common mistake... and it is made a lot.

When someone speaks of another with the Holy Spirit and says that they have the spirit of the devil that is blaspheme against the Holy Ghost and it happens a lot. It is a trap that many fall in, just because the Holy Spirit dwells within you it does not make YOU perfect, you are still a man in the flesh. Although we try and walk in the Spirit we fail many times.

The spirit is more with the sinners because they need him and he rejoices over the one lost sheep that was found than the others. But those standing by watching say why would the spirit be with them more than us? Because we know he is a sinner and we are not he must have a devil. (see Luke 15:1-32)

The scriptures does tell us what it is.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Michael

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 04:28 PM
Then I'm curious how the story of the house being cleaned, and then the evil spirit returning with even worse demons understood by you?That's easy if you understand spiritual warfare.

Oh, before I continue let me put this out before I continue... so I don't forget :rolleyes: ;)

In your OP you say it was revealed to you that blasphemy is being unrepentant... that is my understanding from the way you wrote it. So, we can use scripture to back that anyone who has backsliden whether it was before or after being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.. can be forgiven and restored. But the Bible clearly states that the sin of Blasphemy cannot be and WILL NOT BE forgiven.

Turning your back on Christ can be forgiven, blasphemy cannot :hmm:

The revelation you have doesn't add up and that is why I asked the simple question about what scripture backs the revelation cause it must line up with the Bible 100%, not 99.99% (satans imitation of God)... to be from God.

OK, explanation of the scripture dealing with the returning demons. It explains what happens to a person who is a Christian or who becomes a Christian and doesn't fill themselves with Christ. That is why with deliverance, not may teams will ever deliver a non-Christian cause what will removing a demon cause if this person doesn't have faith in God... it will cause utter failure in helping the person cause they will be worse off then before the deliverance was done. This demon will return to party with the other demons and make life even worse.

As for a person seeking Christ and then giving themselves to Jesus and accepting Him as their Lord and Savior and THEN doing nothing to grow in that relationship will have a tough time with their faith... that is why Christian's who say they don't have to go to church, or don't have to serve on ministries within a church, or don't fellowship with other Christians have a bad time with their faith and walk with God. It's more then "just" praying and reading the Bible... it's a package deal and all this must fill that "house" that was swept clean the moment a person accepted Jesus and He moves in.

By keeping Jesus locked in one room of the "house", which is you... then that leaves the rest of the house open to problems. Each room of the now clean house must be filled with Christ and with each activity you devote to Christ fills more rooms and leaves no room for a demon to enter. Soon all rooms will be filled if you allow God to use you and you actively serve.

I look at it this way... reading the Bible, 1 bedroom. Praying is another bedroom. Church is the livingroom. Fellowship is the kitchen. Ministry is the front and backyards around the house as God reaches out through you to others... do you see what I mean by this explanation which ended up being longer then even I figured it would be :)

Christian's MUST FILL themselves with Christ and not restrict Jesus to just a single room in the house (just praying and reading the Bible). The house must be filled and as the house grows with more rooms (being pruned - John 15), more can be done for Christ as you are led to fill these additional rooms with Christ.

Praise God, I'll be developing this for my next blog!

Christiana
Jun 16th 2008, 04:35 PM
OSAS=once saved always saved

NOSAS=not once saved always saved

I don't want this to turn into a debate on that but in a way I suppose it kinda is.

Thank you. Yes, it kind of is.:( There is much to be learned from God to all of us. We do need to study to show ourselves approved. I suppose this is why some lean to one concept & one to another.

sojourner52
Jun 16th 2008, 04:42 PM
I thought blasphemy was attributing something to God that was not of God. Jesus was accused of blasphemy because He claimed to be God.

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 04:48 PM
That's easy if you understand spiritual warfare.

Oh, before I continue let me put this out before I continue... so I don't forget :rolleyes: ;)

In your OP you say it was revealed to you that blasphemy is being unrepentant... that is my understanding from the way you wrote it. So, we can use scripture to back that anyone who has backsliden whether it was before or after being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.. can be forgiven and restored. But the Bible clearly states that the sin of Blasphemy cannot be and WILL NOT BE forgiven.

Turning your back on Christ can be forgiven, blasphemy cannot :hmm:

The revelation you have doesn't add up and that is why I asked the simple question about what scripture backs the revelation cause it must line up with the Bible 100%, not 99.99% (satans imitation of God)... to be from God.

:( I hope your not saying my revelation is not of God. I strive only to reveal those things that come of God and not my own. I have had battles with powers and principalities, and still my flesh wars against the Spirit that dwells within me. I know well of spiritual warfare. Please don't rebuke me but lead me to understanding, for does not the scripture say....

40For he that is not against us is on our part.



OK, explanation of the scripture dealing with the returning demons. It explains what happens to a person who is a Christian or who becomes a Christian and doesn't fill themselves with Christ. That is why with deliverance, not may teams will ever deliver a non-Christian cause what will removing a demon cause if this person doesn't have faith in God... it will cause utter failure in helping the person cause they will be worse off then before the deliverance was done. This demon will return to party with the other demons and make life even worse.

As for a person seeking Christ and then giving themselves to Jesus and accepting Him as their Lord and Savior and THEN doing nothing to grow in that relationship will have a tough time with their faith... that is why Christian's who say they don't have to go to church, or don't have to serve on ministries within a church, or don't fellowship with other Christians have a bad time with their faith and walk with God. It's more then "just" praying and reading the Bible... it's a package deal and all this must fill that "house" that was swept clean the moment a person accepted Jesus and He moves in.

By keeping Jesus locked in one room of the "house", which is you... then that leaves the rest of the house open to problems. Each room of the now clean house must be filled with Christ and with each activity you devote to Christ fills more rooms and leaves not room for a demon to enter. Soon all rooms will be filled if you allow God to use you and you actively serve.

I look at it this way... reading the Bible, 1 bedroom. Praying is another bedroom. Church is the livingroom. Fellowship is the kitchen. Ministry is the front and backyards around the house as God reaches out through you to others... do you see what I mean by this explanation which ended up being longer then even I figured it would be :)

Christian's MUST FILL themselves with Christ and not restrict Jesus to just a single room in the house (just praying and reading the Bible). The house must be filled and as the house grows with more rooms, more can be done for Christ as you are led to fill these additional rooms with Christ.

I agree with you that it takes more than prayer and reading of the bible to fulfill your Christian duties. Faith without works is dead. Fellowship is an area I lack, (that's why I'm here ;)), and I assure you I am always looking for more fellowship in these trying times. I seek to gather not scatter. What is church? Is this forum not a church where God's children gather to gain understanding and fellowship one amongst another? I do not make it a mystery that I believe in Christ. My ministry is to do my best to let the Light shine through me so that people can see the works that I do to back the words that I say, thus knowing the works are not mine but God's. Actions speak louder than words.

How can the act of not repenting against your sins when you are filled with the Holy Spirit be forgiven?

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 04:54 PM
:( I hope your not saying my revelation is not of God. I strive only to reveal those things that come of God and not my own. I have had battles with powers and principalities, and still my flesh wars against the Spirit that dwells within me. I know well of spiritual warfare. Please don't rebuke me but lead me to understanding, for does not the scripture say....

40For he that is not against us is on our part.
I'm saying that if a revelation is 99.99% lined up with the Bible, then it's not from God.

Blasphemy is specifically defined in the Bible and being unrepentant or backsliden isn't in that definition... at least to my understanding it isn't. But if we find scripture that backs your revelation 100% then I stand corrected and will be the first to say I was wrong.

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 05:05 PM
I'm saying that if a revelation is 99.99% lined up with the Bible, then it's not from God.

Blasphemy is specifically defined in the Bible and being unrepentant or backsliden isn't in that definition... at least to my understanding it isn't. But if we find scripture that backs your revelation 100% then I stand corrected and will be the first to say I was wrong.

Well then I guess it is up to us to define blasphemy. So are you saying that blasphemy is only utterings of the mouth? There in we can say that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is only those who see others doing good deeds and rebuke them?

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 05:11 PM
Common mistake... and it is made a lot.

When someone speaks of another with the Holy Spirit and says that they have the spirit of the devil that is blaspheme against the Holy Ghost and it happens a lot. It is a trap that many fall in, just because the Holy Spirit dwells within you it does not make YOU perfect, you are still a man in the flesh. Although we try and walk in the Spirit we fail many times.

The spirit is more with the sinners because they need him and he rejoices over the one lost sheep that was found than the others. But those standing by watching say why would the spirit be with them more than us? Because we know he is a sinner and we are not he must have a devil. (see Luke 15:1-32)

The scriptures does tell us what it is.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Michael


well said michael -- i think that is helping to deepen my understanding.

another question if i may ,
do you think someone who has the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?

also i find it interesting that scripture says -- in danger of eternal damnation

its not saying --- is eternally damned

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 05:14 PM
well said michael -- i think that is helping to deepen my understanding.

another question if i may ,
do you think someone who has the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?

Also my understanding is expanding. I am seeing now that the act of denying the Holy Spirit whether within OR without is blaspheme.

I will edit my OP again.

JesusMySavior
Jun 16th 2008, 05:15 PM
Let us reason together.

What is this sin that hath not forgivness?

The Spirit has revealed to me that this is the sin of the backslider. The ones who turn their back on the plow.

God is a Living God, and so I don't just see this as the traditional form of blasphemy, some sort of cussword or bad speech against the Spirit.

What does this mean to you?

Edit: Slug1 and fewarechosen by their posts have led me to add an edit. The act of not repenting against the sin of backsliding is the sin against the Holy Spirit. I should have stated the act of staying in the backslide.


Your revelation is wrong, sir.

This backslider was saved and redeemed by the blood of Christ. And I have never been the same since. God has taken this sinner to new heights and given a new love.

So, no...the backslider is not the one who is unforgiven. I can testify to that.

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 05:17 PM
Your revelation is wrong, sir.

This backslider was saved and redeemed by the blood of Christ. And I have never been the same since. God has taken this sinner to new heights and given a new love.

So, no...the backslider is not the one who is unforgiven. I can testify to that.

Please read the edit. I was also a backslider. It is the act of remaining in the state of the backslide. You have clearly come out of it, and I thank God for that.

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 05:22 PM
just giving my train of thought on this right now

i was thinking if one has the holy spirit then denies the teaching or works or instructions one is given from it and does not repent --that was a blaspheme against the holy spirit.

now also i think its including those who dont have the spirit and denies -- like in the pharisees case , having seen it in action

now what i find interesting is where it says --in danger of damnations.

i view it this way, just like one who has the spirit and denies it can repent. so can one who is like a pharisee --having seen.

the reason it only says "danger" is because imagine a pharisee seeing christ do that -- and hes like no way thats the devil doing it -- but then years later thinks on it again or whatever and realises wow that was god.

he was in danger because if he stayed in that mind set it would have been damnation

but hes not stuck in it because then scripture would have not said danger , it would have said he was eternally damned.

SoldierOfChrist
Jun 16th 2008, 05:25 PM
:( I hope your not saying my revelation is not of God. I strive only to reveal those things that come of God and not my own. I have had battles with powers and principalities, and still my flesh wars against the Spirit that dwells within me.

I can tell you that many of the things that the Lord showed me I did not understand for years and some I still wonder what the full meaning is. He may give you a vision or dream today and your understanding of that dream may not come for many years. I think back to Daniel and some of his visions and dreams were for not until after he was dead!

Ezekiel 12:27 Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off.

Daniel 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I don't think your interpretation is backed up by scripture either. We don't know what or how it was revealed to you.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Michael

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 05:27 PM
we might need another thread on backsliding lol

one cant backslide if one doesnt have the holy spirit.

hes not backing away if he doesnt already have god.

just like in the old testemant god says his people backslid

he wasnt saying that of people who werent his

you cant backslide away from him if you arent his

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 05:33 PM
Well then I guess it is up to us to define blasphemy. So are you saying that blasphemy is only utterings of the mouth? There in we can say that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is only those who see others doing good deeds and rebuke them?It's not being unrepentant :idea:

The scripture dealing with blasphemy and what it is, is posted in this thread above. To answer your question, I feel that if a person sees the Holy Spirit in action but in their heart associates the miracle as the work of satan has committed blasphemy :hmm: I don't know. Does a person commit adultery if they physically couple with a woman who isn't their wife or if they just "think" and fantasize of the coupling in their heart?

SoldierOfChrist
Jun 16th 2008, 05:43 PM
another question if i may ,
do you think someone who has the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?


I think they can but they are more likely not to. They understand what manner of man they themselves are and judge not lest they be judged.

They understand the grace been given to them and the gift they have received... the lord knoweth the hearts and he has mercy on who will have mercy on... who am I to judge. Will I question his mercy, I think not! I will be thankfull that he has had compassion upon me and rejoice when he has it for others! Envy is of the devil and many times this is the root of the blasphamy. The scribes were filled with envy... the people followed Christ and not them. Sometimes those with spiritual gifts are accused of being deceived by the devil.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Michael

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 05:52 PM
another question if i may ,
do you think someone who has the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?

IMO... No.

A person who is saved and is filled with the Holy Spirit will discern a miracle as the work of God... they will praise God from such acts of the Holy Spirit. They will also be able to discern what is not of God and is an imitation miracle... these will be rebuked as such.

This is my opinion based on experience of some stuff I have witnessed.

edit: this can even be applied to a sermon given by a pastor. The Holy Spirit will let you know if a sermon is from God (Holy Spirit led) or isn't from God (from the pastor himself) and one feeds you spiritually and one does not and only pumps you up and motivates you but leaves you spiritually starved.

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 07:30 PM
along with my post #25 i would like to add this.

ok it says the blashpeme against the holy ghost is not forgiven.

now when the pharisees do it he says they are in danger of eternal damnation -- not that they are eternally damned.

so we have to ponder this a little it seems.

the pharisees saw the miracle and denied it , committed the unforgivable sin --game over.


if its unforgivable and the pharisee just commited it thats it - so now how is it they are "in danger" not instantly condemned to hell.

it would seem that they are in danger because they have to change thier mindset -- if they continue in it then they are damned but not so if they change. act of repenting

now i feel that one who already has the holy spirit has the same issues.
if you are called to do something by the holy spirit, and you sort of press it down and ignore it --you also are blaspheming the holy spirit, you are being shown something but deny it , and unless you repent and turn back "pick up the plow" you too are in danger of hell fire. that is why scripture warns of such actions many times.

to whom much is given much is required -- you cant be given ten talents then only bring him those ten back -- we know what happens to the guy with one who buried it --he was cast into outerdarkenss--- thus unforgiven.

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 07:45 PM
along with my post #25 i would like to add this.

ok it says the blashpeme against the holy ghost is not forgiven.

now when the pharisees do it he says they are in danger of eternal damnation -- not that they are eternally damned.

so we have to ponder this a little it seems.

the pharisees saw the miracle and denied it , committed the unforgivable sin --game over.


if its unforgivable and the pharisee just commited it thats it - so now how is it they are "in danger" not instantly condemned to hell.

Just for clarification, which scripture and what translation?

Is it this cause I don't see the "in danger of" that you say is in there:

Mt 12:31-32
The Unpardonable Sin

31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (NKJV)

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 07:46 PM
Just for clarification, which scripture and what translation?

Is it this cause I don't see the "in danger of" that you say is in there:

Mt 12:31-32
The Unpardonable Sin

31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (NKJV)

yes thats the one im thinking of

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

the defintion of greek word below

slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name
impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 07:55 PM
yes thats the one im thinking ofOK, I don't see the "in danger of" as you put it.

Seeing the Holy Spirit in action as in the scripture example of Jesus casting out that demon and speaking against it is blasphemy that condemns you... why, cause God revealed himself and gave HARD evidence of His existence. Say God doesn't exist, speaking out against God, taking the Lords name in vain, say He doesn't exists, telling everyone I'm an atheist are all blasphemies but will be forgiven when the truth is revealed and such a person that made these statements have accepted Jesus and are wiped clean of their sin.

Seeing God revealed in action by witnessing a miracle and calling it of satan... that is the type of blasphemy that is not forgiven. Not in danger of not being forgiven... bottom line, it is not forgiven now or forever.


But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.Which verse is this?


the defintion of greek word below

slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name
impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty

I am a very simple man and am not educated to break down the Bible word for word. I read the Bible in the Spirit and allow the Holy Spirit to inform me of God's meaning. Not the meaning of each word in hopes to find a better meaning. God's word is very simple, so simple a child can understand it. We just think it should mean "more" and dissect it to the very letters of each word which filters out the meaning that God gives us through the Holy Spirit.

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 07:58 PM
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.


sorry i edited my post later

this is the danger i am speaking of

mark 3-29 in king james

and slug im simple too -- look at how i type lol -- so by no means am i trying to prove you wrong or such -- your posts have already helped me learn something -- so please dont mistake it --- i think we could all use more understanding

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 08:13 PM
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.


sorry i edited my post later

this is the danger i am speaking of

mark 3-29 in king jamesThis is a good example of letter of the Word vs. Spirit of the Word... so what is the bottom line meaning... Are they unforgiven or not?

A person who backslides and does not repent will be judged as a person who is an unrepentant Christian. A person who backslides and repents (re-establishes their relationship with Christ) will be judged as a repentant Christian and in all the scripture I read will be with Christ for all eternity.... since this was the OP for this thread from the get go. Then, IMO the revelation as they originally wrote was not of God. As we research this through scripture and we find that unrepentance is the same as blasphemy (the specific type that is unforgivable now and the age to come) then I will say I was wrong.

Falling away from God can be redeemed and the person restored, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (the specific one detailed in the verse above) cannot so the revelation is not of God. Unrepentance will land you in Hell, IMO and so will blasphemy of the Holy Spirit but unrepentance can be forgiven and will be if you reestablish your relationship with Christ but if you did the specific blasphemy that is unforgivable... then no amount of I'm sorries and please forgive me's will gain you a relationship with Christ. So the two are not the same.


and slug im simple too -- look at how i type lol -- so by no means am i trying to prove you wrong or such -- your posts have alreayd helped me learn something -- so please dont mistake it --- i think we could all use more understandingLearning is always great as I learn so much from these types of threads myself :pp :hug:

IamBill
Jun 16th 2008, 08:28 PM
I thought blasphemy was attributing something to God that was not of God. Jesus was accused of blasphemy because He claimed to be God.

:)(most simply put) I find that this IS true - Or not of God, that was of God (IE: the Holy Spirit)
SoldierOfChrist had laid it out well with scripture

Jesus was accused - Mark 3:22

Also interesting - Rev.13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

attributing ? - I think so :)

jewel4Christ
Jun 16th 2008, 08:35 PM
Hi,

I like to compare translations, especially when a certain verse or verses are in question.

In this case, Mark 3....here is how one version puts it:

Satan Fighting Satan?

20-21Jesus came home and, as usual, a crowd gathered—so many making demands on him that there wasn't even time to eat. His friends heard what was going on and went to rescue him, by force if necessary. They suspected he was getting carried away with himself. 22-27The religion scholars from Jerusalem came down spreading rumors that he was working black magic, using devil tricks to impress them with spiritual power. Jesus confronted their slander with a story: "Does it make sense to send a devil to catch a devil, to use Satan to get rid of Satan? A constantly squabbling family disintegrates. If Satan were fighting Satan, there soon wouldn't be any Satan left. Do you think it's possible in broad daylight to enter the house of an awake, able-bodied man, and walk off with his possessions unless you tie him up first? Tie him up, though, and you can clean him out.



28-30"Listen to this carefully. I'm warning you. There's nothing done or said that can't be forgiven. But if you persist in your slanders against God's Holy Spirit, you are repudiating the very One who forgives, sawing off the branch on which you're sitting, severing by your own perversity all connection with the One who forgives." He gave this warning because they were accusing him of being in league with Evil.
Jesus' Mother and Brothers

31-32Just then his mother and brothers showed up. Standing outside, they relayed a message that they wanted a word with him. He was surrounded by the crowd when he was given the message, "Your mother and brothers and sisters are outside looking for you." 33-35Jesus responded, "Who do you think are my mother and brothers?" Looking around, taking in everyone seated around him, he said, "Right here, right in front of you—my mother and my brothers. Obedience is thicker than blood. The person who obeys God's will is my brother and sister and mother."


In my opinion, both the parts in bold at least show a connection that the unpardonable sin is to go against what you know the will of God is.


In other words, it would be like denying the blood that bought you.


I find that interesting because we read these here:


1 cor 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 cor 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

In the Mark 3 scripture ref..Jesus said, that anyone whom does the WILL of God is His mother/brother/sister. So, as I view it, to blaspheme the holy spirit is twofold...it can be those whom say that Jesus was doing miracles by the power of satan, but, it has a significant ISSUE with whom we serve, or give allegience to...by either serving men/flesh, or serving God, and HIS will.

Those whom deny the blood that bought them have committed the unpardonable sin.

We read that here:

2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


When the way of "forgiveness" is undone through false teachers, and, as Mark 3 demonstrates that is what Jesus said they were doing....then, one has fallen from grace, has come to a point where they deny the blood that gave them forgiveness to begin with, and they are cast out/cut off.....because of their unbeleif.

I think it has alot to do with "returning to the way of the flesh", that other "gospels" feed.


Well, thanks for listening......;)

peaceandlove,

janet

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 08:37 PM
bill would you think someone with the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?

its not a trick question just curious lol

Slug1
Jun 16th 2008, 08:42 PM
bill would you think someone with the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?

its not a trick question just curious lolYou ought to start a poll thread, this would be a good discussion.

My answer is no... see post #30 above.

fewarechosen
Jun 16th 2008, 08:53 PM
i think your right slug lol

see me personally i think it is so

its like i feel it well up in me , the sort of feelings that say.

hey dont stress this stuff just live a good life get a decent car a decent house and dont worry youll be fine.
youll be doing the right thing just not so much of it -- thats not a sin its ok

and i can feel myself want to give in to that, its like you know what no need for all this struggle i can do the right thing and enjoy my life.

but then the holy spirit shouts -- you fool cant you see the devil is just trying to start one chip at a time he has patience and wants you to fall away. i give you knowledge and understanding yet you want to spit in my face and say it is not that important, your wordly things will burn, you fool. repent of such thoughts before you are cast into outer darkness --it is better to not have known me than to do what you want to do -- for such thing i will have no forgiveness.

and no i havent heard the holy spirit verbally say that lol but thats what i feel -and i dont think its just to scare me

thats is how i feel i could blaspheme the holy spirit

IamBill
Jun 16th 2008, 09:20 PM
bill would you think someone with the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?

its not a trick question just curious lol

I Do think it is possible, but more in the way of unknowing/mistake
Mans nature(mind) is very apt to be boastful of knowledge that it does Not contain.
But I would agree that "I" would sense the battle within (it would be difficult, as Michael pointed out)---But not "impossible" thinking so could be dangerous

I also agree with Slug1 (except on "a church" part -to many towers of babel out there IMHO) about being FILLED with the Holy Spirit, an empty room has vacancy -EVERY voice MUST be tested ( and I can't stress the "caps" enough)

I guess, in short, "unlikely" -but Very dangerous to think "impossible"

theleast
Jun 16th 2008, 09:28 PM
I can tell you that many of the things that the Lord showed me I did not understand for years and some I still wonder what the full meaning is. He may give you a vision or dream today and your understanding of that dream may not come for many years. I think back to Daniel and some of his visions and dreams were for not until after he was dead!

Ezekiel 12:27 Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off.

Daniel 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I don't think your interpretation is backed up by scripture either. We don't know what or how it was revealed to you.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Michael

That's exactly why I started this thread. To increase my understanding as I only had a piece of it and knew I only had that piece. I thank you all for your contributions, and increasing my understanding as god ahs led you to do.

IamBill
Jun 16th 2008, 09:52 PM
i think your right slug lol

see me personally i think it is so

its like i feel it well up in me , the sort of feelings that say.

hey dont stress this stuff just live a good life get a decent car a decent house and dont worry youll be fine.
youll be doing the right thing just not so much of it -- thats not a sin its ok

and i can feel myself want to give in to that, its like you know what no need for all this struggle i can do the right thing and enjoy my life.

but then the holy spirit shouts -- you fool cant you see the devil is just trying to start one chip at a time he has patience and wants you to fall away. i give you knowledge and understanding yet you want to spit in my face and say it is not that important, your wordly things will burn, you fool. repent of such thoughts before you are cast into outer darkness --it is better to not have known me than to do what you want to do -- for such thing i will have no forgiveness.

and no i havent heard the holy spirit verbally say that lol but thats what i feel -and i dont think its just to scare me

thats is how i feel i could blaspheme the holy spirit

:hmm: Now that reminds me of something that happened to me from a thread Projectpeter made about the time you joined us.
long story short -it convicted me so deeply that I dropped my guard, and fell to spiritual attack. I was going to give up the only fellowship and chance of helping I have. it would have driven me back to isolation, we wouldn't be having this chat.
I woke the next morning with this literally in my face -
Philippians 2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

That and some very helpful, wonderful members is why I am still here
:) just a thought !

Partaker of Christ
Jun 16th 2008, 11:09 PM
We're gonna turn this into a OSAS vs. NOSAS debate... I'm NOSAS so I agree. I don't agree that backsliding is unforgivable. I do agree that if a backsliden person NEVER repents even though they once had a relationship with Jesus... will remain unforgiven since they never repented and regained their relationship with God.

Blasphemy and being unrepentant are two separate sins, one is not forgivable the other is.

Hi Slug1!

Jesus speaks of forgiveness in this age, and in the age to come, but not so the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Now if (and I agree with you) that backsliding is not this particular 'unforgivable' sin, then the only sin that could possibly be forgiven in the next age, are sins that have not been dealt with (unconfessed or unrepented of) in this age.



blapto, "to injure," and pheme, "speech,"

Matt 12:32 And [B]whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

This 'unforgivable' sin is; EVIL SPEAKING, RAILING, speaking against.


The Pharisees very well knew that only by God, could you cast out demons

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Partaker of Christ
Jun 17th 2008, 12:31 AM
bill would you think someone with the holy spirit can blaspheme against it ?

its not a trick question just curious lol

Hi fewarechosen!

I truly do not believe that this can happen:

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

About your other question: what does it mean 'is in danger of?'

There are other verses that speak of being 'in danger of'
Like if you call your brother a fool etc:

Matt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

My thoughts are, does 'not being forgiven' for something, necessarily mean that a person will end up in hell fire?

John146
Jun 17th 2008, 03:03 PM
Common mistake... and it is made a lot.

When someone speaks of another with the Holy Spirit and says that they have the spirit of the devil that is blaspheme against the Holy Ghost and it happens a lot. It is a trap that many fall in, just because the Holy Spirit dwells within you it does not make YOU perfect, you are still a man in the flesh. Although we try and walk in the Spirit we fail many times.

The spirit is more with the sinners because they need him and he rejoices over the one lost sheep that was found than the others. But those standing by watching say why would the spirit be with them more than us? Because we know he is a sinner and we are not he must have a devil. (see Luke 15:1-32)

The scriptures does tell us what it is.

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Mark 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Mark 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Mark 3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Michael

Good post. The text itself tells us exactly what the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is and that is when someone claims someone has the spirit of Beelzebub or Satan in them when they actually have the Holy Spirit in them. Basically, attributing work done by the Holy Spirit to Satan or some other evil spirit is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The scribes committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by claiming that Jesus was casting out devils by the power of Beelzebub rather than the Holy Spirit.

fewarechosen
Jun 17th 2008, 04:11 PM
Good post. The text itself tells us exactly what the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is and that is when someone claims someone has the spirit of Beelzebub or Satan in them when they actually have the Holy Spirit in them. Basically, attributing work done by the Holy Spirit to Satan or some other evil spirit is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The scribes committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by claiming that Jesus was casting out devils by the power of Beelzebub rather than the Holy Spirit.

now i agree also with his post.

but i do think there is a couple things to ask after.

it says -- but is in danger of eternal damnation --- so its not automatic.
it would say -- but is eternally damned

its like saying -you are in danger of loosing and eye
compared to - you lost an eye

and the other thing is if you have the holy spirit can you blaspheme it in yourself ?

Slug1
Jun 17th 2008, 04:30 PM
now i agree also with his post.

but i do think there is a couple things to ask after.

it says -- but is in danger of eternal damnation --- so its not automatic.
it would say -- but is eternally damned

its like saying -you are in danger of loosing and eye
compared to - you lost an eye

and the other thing is if you have the holy spirit can you blaspheme it in yourself ?And here I'm using Matthew 12 for this scripture the whole time which doesn't say "in danger of" nor does it in Luke. So we have to find the "meaning" of the Spirit of the Word and not break it down to words and use the letter of the Word to figure it out.

Mt 12: 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (NKJV)



Lk 12: 9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. (NKJV)

So I have to ask... why did the Holy Spirit lead Matt to write 'either in this age or in the age to come' when the over all meaning is a big "IF" they will never be forgiven? This statement IMO clinches the meaning and the meaning is 'it will not be forgiven him' and not in danger of not being forgiven. If a person is only indanger of not being forgiven... for how long? How many times does he get to do this sin before it "isn't" forgiven... 3 strikes your out in this age and the age to come?

To me, it's a one shot deal. God will reveal His Power to a person once and if they call it of satan... they will never be able to receive salvation no matter how many I'm sorrys or I didn't mean it's that condemned person says.

fewarechosen
Jun 17th 2008, 04:40 PM
And here I'm using Matthew 12 for this scripture the whole time which doesn't say "in danger of" nor does it in Luke. So we have to find the "meaning" of the Spirit of the Word and not break it down to words and use the letter of the Word to figure it out.

Mt 12: 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. (NKJV)

Lk 12: 9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. (NKJV)


i totally agree -- with that but i think what im getting at is the eternal damnation part.


but are you saying it bars you from heaven ? as in eternal damnation ?

now i dont see it at all as nit picking words-- its said that way for a reason, if you start thinking its nit picking words well then there is lots in the bible that we could say that about. its about understanding the truth behind his words--- if you believe scripture is holy text then each word is fora reason.

and there is a huge difference --

between being in danger of dying
and dying

its not word play at all -- and all the other scriptures say is that sin wont be forgiven-- not that it is eternally damning.

and to see if i am correct in understanding the heart of what you are saying.

do you suppose the very time one of those pharisees said thats not gods works thats satans.
that instantly he was damned to hell ? in that moment

Slug1
Jun 17th 2008, 04:41 PM
I made an edit to the post you quoted.



So I have to ask... why did the Holy Spirit lead Matt to write 'either in this age or in the age to come' when the over all meaning is a big "IF" they will never be forgiven? This statement IMO clinches the meaning and the meaning is 'it will not be forgiven him' and not in danger of not being forgiven. If a person is only indanger of not being forgiven... for how long? How many times does he get to do this sin before it "isn't" forgiven... 3 strikes your out in this age and the age to come?

To me, it's a one shot deal. God will reveal His Power to a person once and if they call it of satan... they will never be able to receive salvation no matter how many I'm sorrys or I didn't mean it's that condemned person says.

Henry
May 1st 2013, 08:03 AM
The revelation you have doesn't add up...

Slug, People do that all the time with scripture too... You have been here for ages, so you'll know what I'm talking about. :D If you worry about blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, you have not done it!!!

dan
May 5th 2013, 03:22 AM
Spirit of the letter, not Spirit of the Word (meaning). The situation with Peter shows us that we can be redeemed and restored, thus forgiven if we backslide. Everyone backslides in one form or another during their relationship with Christ. I do it every day when I'm talking to a person or saying Hi to someone in the store and don't ask them if they have Christ in their life or say a simple, "God Bless you" as I walk by a stranger. Like I said, what is the "value" of backsliding? Am I denying Christ if I NEVER proclaim to others I serve God or attempt to share even the smallest drop of the Gospel on others I meet? IMO closet Christian's are practicing a backsliding relationship as God has commissioned us all to spread the Gospel and not hoard it to ourselves. I'm guilty of this at times and I'm beginning to come out of the "Christian" closet over the past few years. Now I speak about God to everyone.

OK, off my rant :lol

Just as a point of reference: I was once corrected instantly about cursing the Holy Spirit during an urge to say F--- the Holy Spirit before I was a believer.

There was a groaning sound that was unintellgible above me and to the left. It was very sobering and made me desire to retreat to another place.