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Fresh Clay
Jun 23rd 2008, 10:27 AM
I hope this is the right area to discuss this. This weekend, my wife and I attended a small gathering of couples from our church in a family ministry group for dinner, fellowship and prayer. During prayer time, there is no doubt in my mind, that the Holy Spirit softly descended upon us in a loving quiet manner...all I can say is that the Holy Spirit's presence was thick. Many of the people there were praying intimately and quietly in tongues. A church brother of mine was baptized in the Holy Spirit and brought forth his prayer language. The opportunity for others to be baptized in the Holy Spirit was offered but not pushed. Being recently saved in the last year, I felt like God was telling me to learn more of His Word before stepping out in faith and asking him for a gift of the Holy Spirit, the ability to speak in tongues. I would be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about these gifts, and understand that many people do not believe in them as well, which is just fine with me too. Any light you can shed on gifts of the Holy Spirit would be welcomed.

Rullion Green
Jun 23rd 2008, 12:43 PM
Hi there i just want to invite you to listen to this sermon called " Ten shekels and a shirt" by Paris Reidhead who is now gone to glory.

I think it addresses your questions :)

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=10180222445

Reynolds357
Jun 23rd 2008, 06:23 PM
I hope this is the right area to discuss this. This weekend, my wife and I attended a small gathering of couples from our church in a family ministry group for dinner, fellowship and prayer. During prayer time, there is no doubt in my mind, that the Holy Spirit softly descended upon us in a loving quiet manner...all I can say is that the Holy Spirit's presence was thick. Many of the people there were praying intimately and quietly in tongues. A church brother of mine was baptized in the Holy Spirit and brought forth his prayer language. The opportunity for others to be baptized in the Holy Spirit was offered but not pushed. Being recently saved in the last year, I felt like God was telling me to learn more of His Word before stepping out in faith and asking him for a gift of the Holy Spirit, the ability to speak in tongues. I would be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about these gifts, and understand that many people do not believe in them as well, which is just fine with me too. Any light you can shed on gifts of the Holy Spirit would be welcomed.

In the New Testament, The baptism of the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues came with, or very shortly after Salvation. I am not saying that you do not have the Holy Spirit if you do not speak in tongues. Every believer is sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit at Salvation. However, this indwelling is not the same as the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit." The Baptism in the Holy Spirit brings about power into the life of the believer. It brings about super natural ability to understand the word of God. In short, you do not need to be mature in Christ to receive the baptism of the Spirit. You need the baptism of the Spirit to be mature in Christ. Let Him help you and empower you. That is part of His ministry.

sunsetssplendor
Jun 23rd 2008, 06:39 PM
I am a believer who does not speak in tongues. I was "instructed"
in how to speak in tongues at one church and I had to keep myself
from laughing. How can a spritual gift be taught???? Just my opinion.
Also at this same church I often found the on cue direction of
the pastor to "speak your heavenly language" to the congregation
to be VERY isruptive. It was a bunch of babbling mumbo jumbo with one
person trying to out do the next at THIS particular church.


I feel I have other gifts instead: writing, empowering women and
giving sound advice. I am fine if I never speak in tongues however I
am not opposed to it. I just don't think it's my "thing" and I really
dislike it when others look down on those of us who don't speak in
tongues or judge that we aren't "truly" saved because we lack
this ability.

1 Corinthians 12:28
28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Sold Out
Jun 23rd 2008, 09:52 PM
I am a believer who does not speak in tongues. I was "instructed"
in how to speak in tongues at one church and I had to keep myself
from laughing. How can a spritual gift be taught???? Just my opinion.
Also at this same church I often found the on cue direction of
the pastor to "speak your heavenly language" to the congregation
to be VERY isruptive. It was a bunch of babbling mumbo jumbo with one
person trying to out do the next at THIS particular church.


I feel I have other gifts instead: writing, empowering women and
giving sound advice. I am fine if I never speak in tongues however I
am not opposed to it. I just don't think it's my "thing" and I really
dislike it when others look down on those of us who don't speak in
tongues or judge that we aren't "truly" saved because we lack
this ability.

1 Corinthians 12:28
28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

AMEN SISTER! I have felt the same pressue to 'perform' having grown up with a Pentecostal mother. We do not get the Holy Spirit in 'stages'...we get all of Him at the moment of salvation. The question is....does He have all of us?

Athanasius
Jun 24th 2008, 05:33 AM
A 'wise' man once told me that God moves when He moves. What do you do for the person who doesn't speak in tongues but has the gift of healing and does heal? I don't understand the focus on tongues...

Slug1
Jun 24th 2008, 10:14 AM
A 'wise' man once told me that God moves when He moves. What do you do for the person who doesn't speak in tongues but has the gift of healing and does heal? I don't understand the focus on tongues...You talking about a buddy of mine :P ? He heals but has not yet spoke in tongues.

Some get this gift and some don't, this I've learned over the last few years and especially from the church I attend. Many Gifts are divvied up amongst the members and if all had tongues then what about the other 8 Gifts?

coffee cup
Jun 27th 2008, 04:51 AM
I hope this is the right area to discuss this. This weekend, my wife and I attended a small gathering of couples from our church in a family ministry group for dinner, fellowship and prayer. During prayer time, there is no doubt in my mind, that the Holy Spirit softly descended upon us in a loving quiet manner...all I can say is that the Holy Spirit's presence was thick. Many of the people there were praying intimately and quietly in tongues. A church brother of mine was baptized in the Holy Spirit and brought forth his prayer language. The opportunity for others to be baptized in the Holy Spirit was offered but not pushed. Being recently saved in the last year, I felt like God was telling me to learn more of His Word before stepping out in faith and asking him for a gift of the Holy Spirit, the ability to speak in tongues. I would be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about these gifts, and understand that many people do not believe in them as well, which is just fine with me too. Any light you can shed on gifts of the Holy Spirit would be welcomed.

i think it is allowed here.

coffee cup
Jun 27th 2008, 05:26 AM
You talking about a buddy of mine :P ? He heals but has not yet spoke in tongues.

Some get this gift and some don't, this I've learned over the last few years and especially from the church I attend. Many Gifts are divvied up amongst the members and if all had tongues then what about the other 8 Gifts?

is this a pentecostal church ?

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 11:38 AM
is this a pentecostal church ?Yep, I was about 40 years old when I began to attend this church and I can't believe that all the other churches I belonged to in the past have been restricting the Holy Spirit and in some cases not even believing in what He can do.

It's sad they still do and will never experience a fuller relationship with God.

Friend of Jesus
Jun 27th 2008, 01:07 PM
If someone has the Holy Spirit they have the potential to speak in tongues, just like someone with the Holy Spirit in them has the potential to heal or to evangelise. Whether you make use of your potential is a different matter, you'll never have the gift of healing if you don't ever try to heal someone, whether the potential is there or not. You can do ALL things through the Holy Spirit, but that does not necessarily mean you will do all things through the Holy Spirit. God might give you many gifts, but if you never unwrap the present, how are you ever going to make use of it.

So once you've recieved the Holy Spirit, don't hesitate to try things.

This is shown in the parable of the talents in Matthew chp 5. Those that put their gifts to good use are given more. Whereas those who do not use their gifts, have them taken away. I am guilty of "not trying" myself- I can pray in tongues, but I've never tried to heal someone; so how do I know whether God has given me the gift of healing or not?

Once you have asked for the Holy Spirit to live in you, have faith that God answered with a big hearty YES! He's already offered it to you, he's not going to change his mind. All that's left is for you reply with a yes yourself.

God Bless

IamBill
Jun 27th 2008, 01:20 PM
This will sound skeptical but I'm not, nor have I ever heard anyone speak it.

I'm a bit confused about this though. The way I understand "tongues" is that it crosses ALL language barriers, that the person speaking it can be understood by ANYone regardless of the language they each individually speak/know.

So, if that IS the case, why is it possible for, say a church group, to actually hear these strange(tongues)words uttered ? -It seems the only person that would hear the "tongues" would be the one speaking it and the rest would only hear what the speaker was saying as if it where their own normal language.

:confused

theleast
Jun 27th 2008, 01:28 PM
You talking about a buddy of mine :P ? He heals but has not yet spoke in tongues.

Some get this gift and some don't, this I've learned over the last few years and especially from the church I attend. Many Gifts are divvied up amongst the members and if all had tongues then what about the other 8 Gifts?

The gifts are numbered?

I hope we aren't saying there that the Lords gifts can be counted and inventoried? Doesn't the Lord determine the number of gifts and who recieves them?

Here is some scripture...

1 Corinthians 14


1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I would suggest reading the whole chapter as it all pertains but let's start with this.

fewarechosen
Jun 27th 2008, 01:29 PM
hey bill i dont think it does -- i thought that in scripture it says someone needs to interpret it.

i also thought somewhere it talked about it being the language of angels.

i think it was a seperate event in which peter spoke to everyone and everyone understood in their own language.

and i have never heard someone speak in tongues, but do fully believe in it.

its liek someone can just bable and say they are speaking in toungues-- thats why its so overly prominent cause you can fake it.

very hard to fake making a person with a maimed hand heal before your eyes

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 01:34 PM
The gifts are numbered?

I hope we aren't saying there that the Lords gifts can be counted and inventoried? Doesn't the Lord determine the number of gifts and who recieves them?

Here is some scripture...

1 Corinthians 14


1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I would suggest reading the whole chapter as it all pertains but let's start with this.
1 Cor 12:7-11; count them... there are 9 total manifistations, tongues being 1 and the topic of this thread... leaving 8 more.

All of which are divvied up within the Body of Christ so if ALL in a church have only tongues, then something is wrong.

Friend of Jesus
Jun 27th 2008, 01:42 PM
It's true that you can 'fake' praying in tongues, just like you can fake being slain in the Spirit. But I know if anyone told me I was faking I'd jump down their throat (which is not a good thing I know).

The speaking of tongues at the Pentecost is different to praying in tongues, which Paul says (in 1 Corinthians 14) is impossible to understand, without someone who can interpret it. For me praying in tongues is a private prayer language, that I use during worship, not something I do to show off. When praying with other people it is often better to pray in your 'normal' language.

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 01:53 PM
It's true that you can 'fake' praying in tongues, just like you can fake being slain in the Spirit. But I know if anyone told me I was faking I'd jump down their throat (which is not a good thing I know).

The speaking of tongues at the Pentecost is different to praying in tongues, which Paul says (in 1 Corinthians 14) is impossible to understand, without someone who can interpret it. For me praying in tongues is a private prayer language, that I use during worship, not something I do to show off. When praying with other people it is often better to pray in your 'normal' language.That's how I've experienced others manifesting this Gift. I have not spoken in tongues myself.

theleast
Jun 27th 2008, 02:24 PM
1 Cor 12:7-11; count them... there are 9 total manifistations, tongues being 1 and the topic of this thread... leaving 8 more.

All of which are divvied up within the Body of Christ so if ALL in a church have only tongues, then something is wrong.

So would you count the shutting up of the heavens among those manifestations, or to turn water to blood, or to smite the earth with plagues?

Or fire proceeding from your mouth to devour your enemies?

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Firefighter
Jun 27th 2008, 02:26 PM
Tongues 101 -

There are three different types of tongues mentioned in the Bible.

Unknown - 1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. It is you praying directly to God through the Spirit. This is not to be used in the assembly, period.

Known - Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Supernatural gifting to speak in a known earthly language.

Interpreted - 1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. This is the only one that should be used in church. If there is no interpreter then you should remain silent. Also there should never be more than three messages given in tongues even if they are interpreted.

Textually speaking there is NO DIFFERENCE between the "filling" of the Holy Spirit and the "Baptism" of the Holy Spirit. God does not give you something half way.

You recieve the Holy Spirit at salvation.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


You may or may not recieve the gift of tongues.

1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Tongues is not the initial evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit the Fruit of the Spirit is.

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 02:28 PM
So would you count the shutting up of the heavens among those manifestations, or to turn water to blood, or to smite the earth with plagues?

Or fire proceeding from your mouth to devour your enemies?

3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.That would be the Gift of Miracles... see v10.

theleast
Jun 27th 2008, 02:30 PM
That would be the Gift of Miracles v 10.

Oh so there is a subset of gifts?

Why can't we just say there are as many gifts as God desires and leave it at that?

This business of labeling smacks of the doctrine of man, and is dangerous.

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 02:32 PM
Oh so there is a subset of gifts?

Why can't we just say there are as many gifts as God desires and leave it at that?

This business of labeling smacks of the doctrine of man, and is dangerous.
God informed us of 9. How we manifest them in the form He wants, is up to Him based on His purpose for the manifistation.

Firefighter
Jun 27th 2008, 02:34 PM
Please re-read post 19. I added to it.

BroRog
Jun 27th 2008, 02:39 PM
Tongues 101 -

There are three different types of tongues mentioned in the Bible.

Unknown - 1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. It is you praying directly to God through the Spirit. This is not to be used in the assembly, period.

Known - Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Supernatural gifting to speak in a known earthly language.

Interpreted - 1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. This is the only one that should be used in church. If there is no interpreter then you should remain silent. Also there should never be more than three messages given in tongues even if they are interpreted.

Textually speaking there is NO DIFFERENCE between the "filling" of the Holy Spirit and the "Baptism" of the Holy Spirit. God does not give you something half way.

You recieve the Holy Spirit at salvation.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


You may or may not recieve the gift of tongues.

1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Tongues is not the initial evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit the Fruit of the Spirit is.






In 1Cor. 14, Paul is not suggesting the language is universally unknown. It's just that no one in attendance understands it.

With regard to an interpreter, the person speaking can be his own interpreter as he or she should know what they intended to say. If you don't know what you intended to say, then you weren't speaking in tongues. You were just babbling.

theleast
Jun 27th 2008, 02:42 PM
God informed us of 9. How we manifest them in the form He wants, is up to Him based on His purpose for the manifistation.

God did not number them, nor did Paul.

Why should we?

IamBill
Jun 27th 2008, 02:47 PM
Tongues 101 -

There are three different types of tongues mentioned in the Bible.

Unknown - 1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. It is you praying directly to God through the Spirit. This is not to be used in the assembly, period.

Known - Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Supernatural gifting to speak in a known earthly language.

Interpreted - 1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. This is the only one that should be used in church. If there is no interpreter then you should remain silent. Also there should never be more than three messages given in tongues even if they are interpreted.

Textually speaking there is NO DIFFERENCE between the "filling" of the Holy Spirit and the "Baptism" of the Holy Spirit. God does not give you something half way.

You recieve the Holy Spirit at salvation.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


You may or may not recieve the gift of tongues.

1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Tongues is not the initial evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit the Fruit of the Spirit is.






Thanks -so actually it can be one of three, a sign, a tool, or a code ? (so to speak)

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 02:51 PM
God did not number them, nor did Paul.

Why should we?OK I won't number them 1-9 for you as if there is a specific order for them. 9 are presented in scripture and I referred to this fact as, "there are 9 of them". They are listed as...

v8- Wisdom, Knowledge; total of 2.
v9- Faith, Healing; total of 2.
v10- Miracles, Prophacy, Discernement, Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues; total of 5

= 9

theleast
Jun 27th 2008, 02:53 PM
OK I won't number them 1-9 for you as if there is a specific order for them. 9 are presented in scripture and I referred to this fact as, "there are 9 of them". They are listed as...

v8- Wisdom, Knowledge; total of 2.
v9- Faith, Healing; total of 2.
v10- Miracles, Prophacy, Discernement, Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues; total of 5

= 9

You say I won't number them one through 9 then you do exactly that.

/sigh

Oh well, I'm just saying don't put limitations on God.

SoldierOfChrist
Jun 27th 2008, 02:53 PM
This will sound skeptical but I'm not, nor have I ever heard anyone speak it.

I'm a bit confused about this though. The way I understand "tongues" is that it crosses ALL language barriers, that the person speaking it can be understood by ANYone regardless of the language they each individually speak/know.

So, if that IS the case, why is it possible for, say a church group, to actually hear these strange(tongues)words uttered ? -It seems the only person that would hear the "tongues" would be the one speaking it and the rest would only hear what the speaker was saying as if it where their own normal language.
:confused

I have heard of people speaking in tongues in front of others but have never experienced it myself. When it happened to me me it was in a song of praise to God and although I sort of understood what I was singing it wasn't in a language that I know or could ever repeat.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

You are thinking of the event at Pentecost which is different:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Anyway if you don't speak in tongues it doesn't mean you aren't saved as some teach. The spiritual gifts can bring on exceedingly great faith in God in a person!

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

To prophecy or heal are better gifts because they help others.

1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.


If someone has the Holy Spirit they have the potential to speak in tongues, just like someone with the Holy Spirit in them has the potential to heal or to evangelise. Whether you make use of your potential is a different matter, you'll never have the gift of healing if you don't ever try to heal someone, whether the potential is there or not. You can do ALL things through the Holy Spirit, but that does not necessarily mean you will do all things through the Holy Spirit. God might give you many gifts, but if you never unwrap the present, how are you ever going to make use of it.

So once you've recieved the Holy Spirit, don't hesitate to try things.


Like it reads... don't quench the Spirit but if God wants you to heal he will let you know! From my experience he will lead you through the anointing power to do his will. You need to listen for instructions and take the lower seat.

Michael

cheech
Jun 27th 2008, 02:57 PM
Oh so there is a subset of gifts?

Why can't we just say there are as many gifts as God desires and leave it at that?

This business of labeling smacks of the doctrine of man, and is dangerous.

We all know God can bestow anything he wants to upon us...what he feels we need to do our work for the Kingdom...but the topic at hand is about tongues which falls in line with the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit:

1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Cor%2012&version=31#fen-NIV-28629a)] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. [B]11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

This states there are 9 spiritual gifts. This does not mean God does not give us any other "gifts" he sees fit to help us in our work, but there are specific ones which what the above verses talk about.

Lets continue with the OP's topic.

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 03:00 PM
You say I won't number them one through 9 then you do exactly that.

/sigh

Oh well, I'm just saying don't put limitations on God.I'm not, however He wants us to manifest Miracles for an example is limitless IMO. One can breath fire, one can separate water, one can not be harmed by lions, one can call for rain, one can kill a lion with his bare hands, one can cause the wall of a city to fall by walking around it in a specific way and then shout at the wall... etc, etc, etc.

I'm not limiting God at all but He informed us of 9 He will give us.

SoldierOfChrist
Jun 27th 2008, 03:00 PM
Tongues 101 -

There are three different types of tongues mentioned in the Bible.

Unknown - 1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. It is you praying directly to God through the Spirit. This is not to be used in the assembly, period.

Known - Act 2:8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Supernatural gifting to speak in a known earthly language.

Interpreted - 1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. This is the only one that should be used in church. If there is no interpreter then you should remain silent. Also there should never be more than three messages given in tongues even if they are interpreted.

Textually speaking there is NO DIFFERENCE between the "filling" of the Holy Spirit and the "Baptism" of the Holy Spirit. God does not give you something half way.

You recieve the Holy Spirit at salvation.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


You may or may not recieve the gift of tongues.

1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


Tongues is not the initial evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit the Fruit of the Spirit is.

I agree there are three kinds of tongues.

Tongues is not the initial evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit the Fruit of the Spirit is.

Well said!

Michael

Athanasius
Jun 27th 2008, 03:06 PM
You say I won't number them one through 9 then you do exactly that.

/sigh

Oh well, I'm just saying don't put limitations on God.

He's not putting limitations on God if God Himself said, "Here's the gifts...." It'd be different if scripture was quiet, but it's not. We know what the gifts are, they are laid out, there's no restricting God going on. So, with that said... If you wish to claim there are additional gifts, then please show how they compliment scripture, if not, I'm going to have to reject them, sorry.

Laughing in the Spirit, getting drunk in the Spirit... Not my cup of tea.

fewarechosen
Jun 27th 2008, 03:18 PM
hmmm i have not given this that much thought to be honest.

now this is how it appears to me

there is speaking in tongues, i dont really see it as three types or whatever, but im sure it varies

like lets look at corinthians

1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

when i read this its basically saying that if you speak in tongues and no one is able to interpret then its only usefull to yourself --- i dont see it as saying this type of tongues cannot be interpreted.

later he goes on to say if you are speaking in tongues do it in church only if someone is around who can interpret.

-------------------------------------------------------------
im curious -- has anyone been around tongues that people in different languages could understand? -- and who has seen someone interpret tongues.

Friend of Jesus
Jun 27th 2008, 03:39 PM
Laughing in the Spirit, getting drunk in the Spirit... Not my cup of tea.


I don't know about laughing "in the Spirit" but quite often I find myself laughing while praising God. Why? Because I'm so darn happy! Jesus puts a smile on my face everytime I think of him. I might be moody and depressed beforehand, but once I start to focus on God, I can't help but sing, dance, smile, and yes laugh; because Jesus is just so amazing.

As to getting "drunk" in the Spirit- This is really just the state of elevated joy I mentioned. Unfortanatly, some people may add things that are of the flesh, which is why some people (I'm guessing you) aren't keen to see it.

But nevertheless, the roots of these things are (for most people) firmly planted in Jesus. I laugh because Jesus brings me joy. And one of the fruits of the Spirit is indeed Joy.

IamBill
Jun 27th 2008, 03:39 PM
I have heard of people speaking in tongues in front of others but have never experienced it myself. When it happened to me me it was in a song of praise to God and although I sort of understood what I was singing it wasn't in a language that I know or could ever repeat.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

You are thinking of the event at Pentecost which is different:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Anyway if you don't speak in tongues it doesn't mean you aren't saved as some teach. The spiritual gifts can bring on exceedingly great faith in God in a person!


Michael

:) Yeah, I wasn't sure of the differences. Ergatēs post cleared that up

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 04:05 PM
Laughing in the Spirit, getting drunk in the Spirit... Not my cup of tea.Nor mine and every time I see this on TV I turn it off. Funny how "everyone" is falling all over drunk in the spirit... all except the cameramen.

IamBill
Jun 27th 2008, 04:11 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------
im curious -- has anyone been around tongues that people in different languages could understand? -- and who has seen someone interpret tongues.

I've not heard anyone or spoke them myself (that I know of anyway)


""and who has seen someone interpret tongues.""

Good question, I've Yet to hear of this from anyone or anyone who has heard/winessed of it.

IamBill
Jun 27th 2008, 04:12 PM
Nor mine and every time I see this on TV I turn it off. Funny how "everyone" is falling all over drunk in the spirit... all except the cameramen.

all except the cameramen. :lol: ;)

Firefighter
Jun 27th 2008, 04:15 PM
If you don't know what you intended to say, then you weren't speaking in tongues. You were just babbling.

Not true.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

We see the context of what he is speaking about in verse 14...

1Co 14:14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

We see this again in 1 Corinthians 13...

1Co 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels

The tongues of angles is referring to the unknown tongue and the tongues of men is referring not to languages he has studied, but those that have been supernaturally gifted

SoldierOfChrist
Jun 27th 2008, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xel'Naga http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1687869#post1687869)
Laughing in the Spirit, getting drunk in the Spirit... Not my cup of tea.



Nor mine and every time I see this on TV I turn it off. Funny how "everyone" is falling all over drunk in the spirit... all except the cameramen.

Zechariah 10:7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.

I will keep an open mind.

Michael

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 04:19 PM
I've not heard anyone or spoke them myself (that I know of anyway)


""and who has seen someone interpret tongues.""

Good question, I've Yet to hear of this from anyone or anyone who has heard/winessed of it.I didn't catch Fewarechosen's ? earlier and since you asked as well... I haven't been present when a person spoke in tongues and another translated. However, my pastor told us of a time in his past when he was invited to attend a seminar held at another church. He arrived early so he attended there Sunday service as the seminar was after it. Before the service kicked off a woman stood up and began to pray in tongues and "he" was the translator. It really took him offguard both because this was the first (and only) time he manifested this gift and because of the message that was being prayed in tongues.

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xel'Naga http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1687869#post1687869)
Laughing in the Spirit, getting drunk in the Spirit... Not my cup of tea.




Zechariah 10:7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.

I will keep an open mind.

MichaelI'm sure if I witnessed the real deal instead of the stage act then I'd have a different opinion based on how God allowed me to discerned what I was seeing.

Firefighter
Jun 27th 2008, 04:25 PM
I have not only seen people interpret tongues in such a fashion that there was no doubt it was God, but I have also seen a friend of mine instantly learn spanish.

Slug1
Jun 27th 2008, 04:26 PM
I have not only seen people interpret tongues in such a fashion that there was no doubt it was God, but I have also seen a friend of mine instantly learn spanish.That would be useful as I attend a Hispanic church and have to have everything translated to me.

godsgirl
Jun 27th 2008, 04:28 PM
Tongues is not the initial evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit the Fruit of the Spirit is.


Michael


Not true according to scripture-take a look at Acts 10---how did the Jewish believers know that Jesus baptised the gentiles in the Holy Spirit????? Acts 10:46 gives the answer-and it doesn't say anything about all of them standing around in love, joy, peace ect....

In fact, I don't see one time in scripture where the initial evidence of the baptism in the Spirit is any of the fruit.

Firefighter
Jun 27th 2008, 04:32 PM
Out of the five times the Holy Spirit was recieved in scriptures, only three times is there ANY mention of tongues... The other two times there is not even a hint that togues was given lining up with "to some diverse kinds of tongues"...

What kind of tree does not produce fruit?

Firefighter
Jun 27th 2008, 04:36 PM
In fact, I don't see one time in scripture where the initial evidence of the baptism in the Spirit is any of the fruit.

I want you to show me where scripture makes a difference between the "filling" and the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. The two are used interchangeably throughout scripture.

SoldierOfChrist
Jun 27th 2008, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfChrist http://bibleforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?p=1687861#post1687861)

Tongues is not the initial evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit the Fruit of the Spirit is.


Michael



Not true according to scripture-take a look at Acts 10---how did the Jewish believers know that Jesus baptised the gentiles in the Holy Spirit????? Acts 10:46 gives the answer-and it doesn't say anything about all of them standing around in love, joy, peace ect....

In fact, I don't see one time in scripture where the initial evidence of the baptism in the Spirit is any of the fruit.

Good point. Of course he that knows not love knows not God. Like the fig tree the fruit comes before the leaves.

You make a good point though.

Michael

IamBill
Jun 27th 2008, 04:38 PM
I didn't catch Fewarechosen's ? earlier and since you asked as well... I haven't been present when a person spoke in tongues and another translated. However, my pastor told us of a time in his past when he was invited to attend a seminar held at another church. He arrived early so he attended there Sunday service as the seminar was after it. Before the service kicked off a woman stood up and began to pray in tongues and "he" was the translator. It really took him offguard both because this was the first (and only) time he manifested this gift and because of the message that was being prayed in tongues.



I have not only seen people interpret tongues in such a fashion that there was no doubt it was God, but I have also seen a friend of mine instantly learn spanish.

:) thanks, these are the only two times I've heard of the "interpreting of them" -seems rare compared to hearing of speaking them

Sold Out
Jun 27th 2008, 04:38 PM
I hope this is the right area to discuss this. This weekend, my wife and I attended a small gathering of couples from our church in a family ministry group for dinner, fellowship and prayer. During prayer time, there is no doubt in my mind, that the Holy Spirit softly descended upon us in a loving quiet manner...all I can say is that the Holy Spirit's presence was thick. Many of the people there were praying intimately and quietly in tongues. .

To the OP:

This topic will be debated until Christ returns. I find it's best to not argue about it with my brothers & sisters in Christ. It's not a heaven-or-hell issue. There are a lot of people here on the boards that are on either side of the fence on this issue, so I think it would be best to just do your own research in the bible and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you.

"Unity in the essentials, liberty in the nonessentials, and charity for all."

Firefighter
Jun 27th 2008, 04:40 PM
In fact, I don't see one time in scripture where the initial evidence of the baptism in the Spirit is any of the fruit.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Friend of I AM
Jun 27th 2008, 04:48 PM
I hope this is the right area to discuss this. This weekend, my wife and I attended a small gathering of couples from our church in a family ministry group for dinner, fellowship and prayer. During prayer time, there is no doubt in my mind, that the Holy Spirit softly descended upon us in a loving quiet manner...all I can say is that the Holy Spirit's presence was thick. Many of the people there were praying intimately and quietly in tongues. A church brother of mine was baptized in the Holy Spirit and brought forth his prayer language. The opportunity for others to be baptized in the Holy Spirit was offered but not pushed. Being recently saved in the last year, I felt like God was telling me to learn more of His Word before stepping out in faith and asking him for a gift of the Holy Spirit, the ability to speak in tongues. I would be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about these gifts, and understand that many people do not believe in them as well, which is just fine with me too. Any light you can shed on gifts of the Holy Spirit would be welcomed.

I believe tongues are still spoken to this day but I think tongues today are more so applied to those who are able to speak multiple human languages without ever having studied them in order to spread the Word. My sister I think may have the gift of tongues, as she has testified to me that she has been able to speak fluently in spanish more so readily than she has ever been before when working with individuals who only speak spanish in her church.

Athanasius
Jun 27th 2008, 06:53 PM
Quote:

Zechariah 10:7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.

I will keep an open mind.

Michael

And this refers to the display of being drunk in the Spirit, or laughing incessantly in the Spirit, how?

cheech
Jun 28th 2008, 02:58 AM
To the OP:

This topic will be debated until Christ returns.

Or till the cows come home whichever comes first :D (sorry...had to say it :lol:)



I find it's best to not argue about it with my brothers & sisters in Christ. It's not a heaven-or-hell issue. There are a lot of people here on the boards that are on either side of the fence on this issue, so I think it would be best to just do your own research in the bible and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you.

"Unity in the essentials, liberty in the nonessentials, and charity for all."

When in doubt...read the bible ;).